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Thread: The VIP Thread

  1. #23801
    Judge Virms - 9th Realm virms's Avatar
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    I really hope all these subtle teases of the hurt business getting back together and feuding with the new day are true.

  2. #23802
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    We shoulda had that before Summerslam

    It was all right there

    Instead, we got a Goldberg break

  3. #23803
    IT'S CLOBBERIN TIME Bert's Avatar
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  4. #23804
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    This guy is a complete fucking idiot though lol. It's not interesting at all. The replies speak volumes of what I've always thought of this little fuck.

  5. #23805
    IT'S CLOBBERIN TIME Bert's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    This guy is a complete fucking idiot though lol. It's not interesting at all. The replies speak volumes of what I've always thought of this little fuck.
    Why? They're classified as independent contractors but not able to work for other companies.

  6. #23806
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Why? They're classified as independent contractors but not able to work for other companies.
    You know as well as I do it's not that simple. We also know it's not true. The problem with you and fans like you is that you live in the tiny wrestling bubble and think "Oh John Cena should be able to put GCW over WWE any time he wants!" Wrong. WWE is priority. WWE also does let wrestlers do shit outside of WWE. Sure, 99% of the time you're not going to get the approval to go work for AEW for a few months.

    WWE isn't just wrestling. When I see John Cena in a movie or someone making a cameo on a tv show or something, I don't go "Look at that, Vince will let Roman Reigns go a movie but he can't work some matches for Impact!?!?!?!"

    Why doesn't Yang go after the UFC while he's at it. See, that's just how Yang is. He thinks that we should all be able to take from what someone else built. And he won't accomplish shit. Good luck Yang you quitter.

  7. #23807
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    I don't agree with WWE classifying them as independent contractors because of the degree of control that WWE holds. This classification as independent contractors instead of as employees prevents them from forming a union, requires the wrestlers to pay wage taxes, and exempts WWE from having to provide healthcare coverage.

    I am not an Andrew Yang fan, but WWE has been wrong on this issue for years.

  8. #23808
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Yang just says things and then gives up on them shortly after. He has zero stroke.

  9. #23809
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    I'm not an Andrew Yang fan ....at all. And I think this is him entirely being vindictive because he doesn't like the owners.


    But in the last 20 years, I've been through 4 DOL audits on classification status. My companies were never found to have misclassified, but I have spent hours and hours defending individual decisions. Its been a few years since my last one. I used to work for companies' that a higher percentage of payments to non-employees.


    Its not just about them being able to perform or not perform for other companies. The Supreme Court actually has guidance on the main factors;

    The extent to which the services rendered are an integral part of the principal's business.
    The permanency of the relationship.
    The amount of the alleged contractor's investment in facilities and equipment.
    The nature and degree of control by the principal.
    The alleged contractor's opportunities for profit and loss.
    The amount of initiative, judgment, or foresight in open market competition with others required for the success of the claimed independent contractor.
    The degree of independent business organization and operation.


    There is not guidance on how much to weight each of these factors. You don't have to be clean or dirty on all 7 to be considered wrongly. Usually its more than 1, but if you have just a couple that weigh to one side, and the Dept feels its heavy, they can go that way. And I can tell you for a fact that different auditors go about their checks/investigations and weightings very fucking differently.


    I don't have knowledge on all the WWE's practice, but I think its probably more grey then people realize. And I would expect the current DOL to err on the side of employee classifications


    However, from previous challenges I think this is likely one area that WWE legal is likely very skilled at fighting against.


    Would be interesting.



    But even if it had an effect, I don't see any altruism from Yang here.

  10. #23810
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The wrestling business is so strange I'm sure it's extremely difficult to win these battles. But hey, CM Punk won his lawsuit right? So there's hope. Just none for Yang.

  11. #23811
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    The frustrating thing about those audits/investigations is its so fucking arbitrary. Any one I did, I always thought we were correct. But there were ones I recognized were sometimes more grey and was nervous about the DOL seeing differently. And half the time, they would just skim over that position and spend an hour grilling me on something where we were basically 100%

    And then at the end of the day, its pretty much going to be how DOL decides to interpret, and they have huge latitude.

    If someone wanted to go at them, the DOL route is a better way than an individual suit, where an individual would be severely disadvantaged trying to establish a misclassification (and that's before we get to whether they could actually show harm).


    And though Yang is trying to be Billy BadAss here and show how he went at big, bad WWE (?), it would be an ok strategy to have multiple people who are current or former employees make complaints.

  12. #23812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    The wrestling business is so strange I'm sure it's extremely difficult to win these battles. But hey, CM Punk won his lawsuit right? So there's hope. Just none for Yang.
    As I recall, CM Punk and Jesse Ventura both won their lawsuits against WWE, but neither of those cases specifically addressed the independent contractor status.

    Mazer's posts are spot on - the arbitrary nature of the DOL decisions on these investigations is maddening. But as for the determination as to whether the wrestlers could show harm, it would seem pretty easy. The wrestlers have had to pay the employer share of wage taxes, as well as pay for their health insurance, and the cost of having someone prepare their taxes vs. filing them by themselves, is easily determined.

    Yang is just a big enough name to bring attention to this issue. It clearly wasn't going to be addressed by the former administration, which Linda was a part of, but now that there's been another wave of releases, it's a pretty smart move to try to get several complaints together.

  13. #23813
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Absolutely, That's a great way to go at harm.

    Of course, any worth their salt will subpoena their tax records, show any advantages they claimed that they wouldn't have had if they were regular employees, they'll push for any independent venture, and then how much is really left over as damage for the average person who didn't suffer a catastrophic injury when you weigh against the additional expenses they did accrue. Would it be enough to push action? One of the reasons they can get these pittance settlements.

  14. #23814
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    As I recall, CM Punk and Jesse Ventura both won their lawsuits against WWE, but neither of those cases specifically addressed the independent contractor status.

    Mazer's posts are spot on - the arbitrary nature of the DOL decisions on these investigations is maddening. But as for the determination as to whether the wrestlers could show harm, it would seem pretty easy. The wrestlers have had to pay the employer share of wage taxes, as well as pay for their health insurance, and the cost of having someone prepare their taxes vs. filing them by themselves, is easily determined.

    Yang is just a big enough name to bring attention to this issue. It clearly wasn't going to be addressed by the former administration, which Linda was a part of, but now that there's been another wave of releases, it's a pretty smart move to try to get several complaints together.
    You're right I'm sorry I didn't even go into why I used him as a reference. It was mainly to show that despite WWE being a giant, they've lost in court, but I don't think they've ever lost or really been taken to court over this issue.

    Is Yang a big enough name? What does he even do now?

  15. #23815
    Sometimes I disagree Mazer's Avatar
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    Came across this, and just thought it was a cool pic


  16. #23816
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    What if Vince is slowly killing WWE because he doesn't want anyone to take over once he's gone? That's why he's letting talent go. It would explain the poor decisions WWE has made recently.

  17. #23817
    The 'me' in 'team' Dreyski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Came across this, and just thought it was a cool pic


  18. #23818
    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Came across this, and just thought it was a cool pic

    Well since Donald of people after you missed the joke:

    You “came” across that huh?

  19. #23819
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I do have an odd fascination with Arnold. I've come across many of his pictures.

  20. #23820
    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I do have an odd fascination with Arnold. I've come across many of his pictures.
    Who doesn’t love Arnold?

    Him and HHH confrontation on Smackdown back in the day when he nailed him with a chair. Imagine if that went further to a match or if Arnold was in the Rock’s corner on PPV. That would’ve been MEGA!

  21. #23821
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    I have an Arnold autobiography, which I only read the first chapter since that's what I tend to do with all books but it was fascinating reading about his childhood.

  22. #23822
    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    I have an Arnold autobiography, which I only read the first chapter since that's what I tend to do with all books but it was fascinating reading about his childhood.
    Do you listen to Austrian Death Machine? They’ve been around longer but my friend pointed me out to them and they’re great.

    Thrash metal Arnie parody band. If you’re not a fan then become one because you’d love this shit.

  23. #23823
    hero Hero!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Do you listen to Austrian Death Machine? They’ve been around longer but my friend pointed me out to them and they’re great.

    Thrash metal Arnie parody band. If you’re not a fan then become one because you’d love this shit.
    The man behind this band is Tim Lambesis of As I lay Dying, btw. He stopped making music for a few years because he was in prison for the attempted murder of his wife.

    Anyway, I know he's doing stuff with AILD again, I wonder if he's putting out ADM music again too.

  24. #23824
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    What if Vince is slowly killing WWE because he doesn't want anyone to take over once he's gone? That's why he's letting talent go. It would explain the poor decisions WWE has made recently.
    I don't know if I'd call them poor decisions. The talent who have left that actually moved the needle elsewhere, for the most part they left on their own. CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, those 2 didn't get released. Jericho, Moxley...the WWE can't FORCE people to stay and we've all said that the WWE have a bloated roster where many aren't even used.

    Those that were released, I honestly haven't really scratched my head at any of them after really thinking about it. That includes Strowman, Wyatt, even Black. Black unfortunately was just one of those darlings that people were confused as to why he was built up only to kill him off-I'd blame his wife but hey that's me.

    You can basically predict from a mile away how a released WWE wrestler will be booked. It'll be all about how WWE didn't use them, didn't think they were good enough. So their story is proving WWE wrong lol. It's like getting cut from the NFL and you fly over to the CFL to prove to that audience what the NFL was missing....and hope they take you back.

  25. #23825
    IT'S CLOBBERIN TIME Bert's Avatar
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