New announce teams:
Raw - Vic Joseph, Jerry Lawler, Dio Maddin
Smackdown - Michael Cole, Corey Graves, and Renee Young is listed as a special contributor
NXT - Mauro Ranallo, Beth Phoenix, Nigel McGuinness
For those who don't know, Maddin is fka Brennan Williams of NXT. He recently started doing commentary for 205 Live this month. No word on what happens to Tom Phillips and Byron Saxton.
awesome to have Jerry back.
I said when this move to Fox was announced that it would be wise of WWE to view it now as two A shows. While this is a relatively minor shift of resources, this does make me think they are actually leaning towards making Smackdown more of the priority and more as the A show.
I hope after the draft they are two distinct products. Smackdown from the initial draft up until the following Wrestlemania was a really good TV show, particularly with Talking Smack added on. The draft came too soon and "shook things up" before necessary, and you could tell the booking teams didn't fancy certain superstars they got after that. This is a chance at a hard reset and I'll be tuning in to see how they go about it, through the draft. See if they can hook me back somewhat.
Further reporting is that this could be a temporary move for Lawler. They’re still looking at their options, which included having Mickie James doing Main Event commentary this week.Originally Posted by PurePlayer
I was wondering who the fuck Dio Maddin was. Even after catching the Clash pre-show it didn't even register that it was that dude Brennan Williams. He's cool.
I'm going to pretend and be positive that Raw's announce team won't be dogshit. Lawler....why? Seriously. It's almost a stone cold fact that if he's not working with Jim Ross or Vince, he's not living up to expectations. In this stage of his life, dude is 70, what is the point???? The other 2 are so fucking green.....Vic Joseph, man this is like Raw when JR had to take time off and they put Kevin Kelly in his place.
John Canton would spontaneously orgasm at this.
Lawler coming back is fucking awful.
Yeah. I don't mind the odd appearance from Lawler as a cameo but not full-time.
Tom Phillips getting the shaft is even worse to me. I think he does a wonderful job.
Would not he surprised to hear that Heyman was pushing for Lawler.
Yeah, Phillips is solid.
I thought I read something that FOX wanted two-man announce teams coming back?
Guess that's kaput. Two-man teams were great.
No, pretty sure SD will have a two person team
I suppose so if Renee is being listed as a "special contrubtor" whatever the hell that entails.
Still I wish all ofvthem would be the same and revert to two man booth. The banter and chemistry is much better with two. Three's a crowd.
No Otungo though on that list which is a big plus. Shame about Phillips.
I seem to be Renee's only fan so I'll just say I'll miss her on commentary.
She’s good and deserves better than being a “special contributor” whatever that is. My last post were more towards the configuration of the commentary teams and the fact
The Raw team looks like shit. Vic’s okay but you got an over the hill in Lawler and a guy who’s barely started commentating who is somehow preferred over Renee. Her and Vic would be a decent team.
She's getting more added on her plate, part of which plays more to her strengths, so I'm not really sure she deserves better when she's getting a better situation.
Part of that rant is probably because of not understanding what she’s gonna do as a special contributor or what it means. Is it basically more backstage time as well as the odd commentary or something else?
Still though, the Raw team looks bleh.
It can be anything, really. While she was getting relatively better as a commentator, more of what she's gong to be doing on FS1 and likely whatever she does for Smackdown will be more in her wheelhouse. Plus she's moving to the brand that's getting more "exposure" or emphasis right now.
I suppose we’ll have to wait and see how it plays out, but would take her as a full time commentator over some of those listed.
Probably more an observation on the lack of decent depth in the commentary team in general where some are either annoying or lack personality. Not quite romrom level but Graves gets a bit on my tits right now and Cole is hit or miss. No real complaints with the NXT team though could live without Beth.
I expect that Lawler won't last through the end of the year. They probably have the Fiend lose to Seth, and Jerry interviews Bray (who appears on the Titantron) about "what comes next". Happy Bray says Yowie Wowie from the Titantron and adds that there is more work to do if they let him in, but the lights go out and the Fiend destroys Lawler.
It would be a good use for Jerry, and naming him as the announcer diverts from the expectation that legends are only around to put young guys over.
Renee Young as a "special analyst" or whatever, reminds me of when WCW used to trot Mike Tenay out to talk about Mexican wrestlers or the history of guys in Japan. You'd have Tenay explaining the history of a feud between two Luchador's grandfathers in Mexico from the 60's while Dusty Rhodes is sitting there yelling and making up random words.
Mike Tenay: "These two men have a history dating back to the 1950's. Their great-grandfathers wrestled in Arena De Mexico in a mask vs. mask match. Obviously, that's still fresh in both men's minds tonight."
Dusty: "Yippedy-dippidy-yee-haw-doodly-doodle-doo!"
Lawler was bloody awful for many years at the end of his permanent run. Sad, because he was genuinely fantastic before that.
I have no confidence that he'll be in any way motivated in 2019.
On the whole though, I'd prefer 2 person booths, but this is still a positive move, I feel. I am surprised to hear that Tom Phillips isn't being used though; he's solid.
I've been a big Cole backer for a while now, but I think he's very, very lucky to still be in a commentary seat after these changes.
Ranallo, Joseph and Phillips are now all demonstrably better.
Aye, Mauro has no interest in the 'main' roster mind.
Can't say I blame him. He's got it good with NXT and the boxing he does.
Cole really shines in the sit-down interview, he's much better in that role, helping get a character's development/motivation out. For play-by-play, I look at it as he is very good at doing what he's told. Most of the criticism I have against him is that he especially gets stuck in the position where he has to pretend that he has never watched wrestling before. I wonder how much Vince will be yelling in their ears backstage - the rumors are all over the place.
Renee has come a long way and has finally become comfortable in the play-by-play role, and I want more of her on TV. Every time they give her something new to do, she seems tentative at first, but then becomes really good at it. From backstage interviewer, to host of Talking Smack or PPV pre-shows, Total Divas, to play by play, to now whatever.
Byron Saxton is the guy that nobody seems to care is out. I thought they were trying to groom him to be the next Cole
Love, love, love Renee. I stopped watching Total Divas after her one season. She and Rusev were the only two people that kept me watching the show, and Rusev alone wasn't enough to keep me interested.
That being said, Renee was just completely lost when they added her to commentary. She said so herself. She'd be chomping away on a taco, and they'd be freaking out telling her to turn off her mic, but she couldn't find the button on the desk. They had to stick a big piece of fluorescent green tape on the button so she'd know where it was. She's improved, but it's just not her bag, baby.
I hope that it's going to be more in line with what she did on Talking Smack. Renee was at her best back then.
Cole has a bunch of people talking in his ear the entire show. It's impossible to be a good play-by-pay commentator when that's happening.
Saxton as the next Cole?
If WWE still did weekend recap shows in syndication, Michael Cole would be perfect for it.
Let him draw on his experience as a news anchor. Just let him be a fairly serious and straightforward reporter.
Cole is good when he is allowed to freestyle, it's Vince that makes him so bland on commentary.
https://www.commercialappeal.com/sto...ek/3780437002/
Lawler's official return to a WWE commentary desk, which is set for Monday in Phoenix, is part of an open-ended agreement, he told The Commercial Appeal on Thursday evening.
"I got a call about it Tuesday morning from Kevin Dunn (WWE's executive vice president of television production)," Lawler said. "He said, 'I've got a proposition for you. It may be good news, and it may be bad news.' He knows I don't like to travel a whole lot anymore, so that was the bad part. I said, 'What's the good part?' He said, 'We want you back on Raw.'
"He told me it's for however long I want to do it, so that sealed the deal."
"It was (Raw's executive director) Paul (Heyman's) idea to put Vic and Dio on Raw," Lawler said. "Apparently, what I was told, Vince (McMahon) said, 'You can't throw these two new, young guys on our flagship show. Call King.' That's how it happened."
Lawler hasn't been a good commentator in over a decade. I wish they would just have 2 at the desk.
Honestly if they wanted a veteran at the desk, should've called Booker. He can be silly at times but generally entertaining and a big part of the problem was Vince likes the commentators arguing like they did with him and Graves.
Odd cameo from Lawler like they did with Bray, I don't mind. But Lawler even admitted himself there he doesn't like to travel as much anymore.
I am more convinced than ever that Jerry won't last until Thanksgiving.
Well, most of the reports have indicated it's a temporary move so...that's very possible.
Edge has been cleared to return....
That's huge if true.
I saw it on the main page. Hoping it’s legit
They should have kept it quiet and had a surprise Royal Rumble return.
Imagine the pop.
Last edited by CWE; October 4th, 2019 at 9:28 PM.
The latest post there's pretty uncertain...
If he comes back I hope he's a heel.
Probably just something for Crown Jewel.
Edge vs. John Cena at Saudi Arabian Blood Money - The Show?
Could be a fun nostalgia trip. And they’d work safe and not do anything dangerous or stupid.
It's obvious Edge is going to wrestle Becky. She's talked too much shit on twitter and now he's coming for her.
Edge pinning Goldberg with the spear, that’s where the money and hilarity is at.
Sorry LOCONUT if you’re viewing.
Last edited by Badger; October 5th, 2019 at 9:39 PM.
Random rambling thought. I know Flair was the jet-flying wheeling dealing son of a gun but is/was/will there be anyone better that can pull off a suit than Batista?
He really is dapper. I mean look at that suit. The way it fits his body.Random rambling thought. I know Flair was the jet-flying wheeling dealing son of a gun but is/was/will there be anyone better that can pull off a suit than Batista?
It really makes you wonder.
How big is Batista's dick?
Giant.
I was gonna compare him with Roman in a suit, but decided not to because really it’s no contest.
And Melina probably knows...
Master P say uhh!
Well that's a first. Just seen someone refer to the World Wildlife Fund as 'WWE'.
why doesnt WWE do a win/loss record thing like I heard AEW is doing? records can be on a yearly cycle, resetting at like Wrestlemania, or during the "season premieres"
it would make all these meaningless matches... mean something. instead of feuds starting randomly (which they can still do), there can be official rankings or something that indicate who is in line or close
I've randomly suggested this on the boards for several years and the majority shit all over it because they think it boxes in the creative process. To which I've always said, not every single feud has to be centered around rankings. No different than in MMA when a guy ranked #7 winds up fighting for the title, whether that's due to some drama or being a bigger draw, it's not always #1 fights #2 and #3 fights #4.
Didn't the WWE try to have a ranking a little while ago, but it was primarily a vehicle to show off Tye Dillinger? TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN! TEN!
Both the Power Rankings and the "Inner Company Rankings" were dumb as fuck. Especially the one where the wrestlers themselves supposedly voted lol.
It's too difficult imo for the masses, both hardcore and casual fans, to wrap their brain around stats lol. Every other sport, no problem. Obviously they're not a real sport, but the premise is the same. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who goes undefeated for a year and nobody notice that's a big deal.
IDK, maybe the roster is too big but shit, they have 30-40 people for creative, I highly doubt you need that many people to write for 5 wrestlers every week. Give a couple people the task of recording wins and losses, just keep it strictly "televised" matches so you're not having to explain why The Fiend lost to Seth Rollins at a house show.
If they did have rankings, everyone would have equal wins and equal losses, with the execption of Brock Lesnar and Mike Kannellis.
If they had had rankings, then the future Hall of Famer Curt Hawkins legendary losing streak of 269 matches that ended with him and Zack Ryder winning the Tag Titles at WrestleMania, never would have happened.
its the WWE, there are always exceptions
adding a W/L record can add exciting and new situations where wrestlers struggling to get a win (babyfaces) may have to dig deep and turn heel or something
I dont know... anything other than the same crap we get for years. Does anyone at all on this planet give a shit whether Apollo Crews beats Richochet or vice versa? Adding stats would make every match have some sort of meaning. The only negative is that it would force creative to actually, you know, think things out, as opposed to using the archaic territorial system of booking random matches for no reason on a blackboard
wrestlers at the top of the rankings getting passed over on title shots will have a legitimate gripe with management and with the guys who are passing them over. you can organically start feuds
its just incredible to me how this hasnt been presented yet in an era where WWE and Fox are trying to make things more "sports"
instead, we get the same formula where RAW kicks off with a meaningless tag match involving guys who arent even a tag team
im as casual as a watcher as they come these days, but I cannot believe that even the hardcore fans give a shit about 85% of the weekly episodic matches. its quite painful to sit through for me.
"uh oh, here comes Aleicester Black, another pointless match with Dolph Ziggler or whoever" thats usually when I change the program
Last edited by Spedizzo; October 10th, 2019 at 4:27 PM.
If WWE wanted to do the “wins and losses matter” thing, it wouldn’t be too hard for them to say that certain matches are number 1 contender matches, regardless of who’s ranked how and where. It’s wrestling. It’s manipulatable, because it needs to be.
At the very least, I would like WWE to be consistent with determining #1 Contenders. Showing up and attacking the champ shouldn't automatically get you a title shot. Get to the back of the line and earn it by winning some matches.
I'm not negative to that. They can't make it be just about rankings. They should use rankings as just another tool in booking angles. No different than MMA. Some of the biggest fights happened between 2 guys that had nothing to do with rankings. McGregor v. Nate Diaz 1 is a great example. Chuck Liddell v. Wanderlai Silva is another. It wasn't about "whoever wins gets the next title shot" or anything like that, it was all about what fight will make the most money for us.
Sometimes fighters being close in rankings just makes it easier.
It's beyond idiotic to have a prospect become the No. 1 contender by beating the champion. I don't understand why WWE's main roster operates that way.
Because it’s lazy and easy to write.
I hate that shit. I get that the idea is "If he can beat the champ in a non title maybe he can when it matters" But it also weakens the champ, especially if you're the US or IC champ. I don't mind as much when it's a tag-team situation, like if Rollins teamed up with Strowman v. Samoa Joe and Orton and Orton pins Rollins=Rollins v. Orton is set up. But yeah, these non-title matches with Nakamura losing to Ali then beating him when the belt is on the line, weird.
That example you had is the only scenario that is good for working a contender setup if you're going to manufacture a contender. The trope they use know doesn't make a lick of sense and both speeds up the process and finds a way to waste time if the champion(s) ultimately retain.
I don't even like when it's a wrestler who's on a hot streak. Like if it was Roman Reigns and he beats Lesnar in a non-title match....Fuck that. Save the battle for a bigger show, don't blow your wad because it's so formulaic these days to book that way it really takes away from the eventual match that we're supposed to care about.
I can't sink my teeth into Kofi Kingston losing to Kevin Owens in a non-title match and then 2 weeks later I'm supposed to give a shit about KO v. Kofi at Extreme Rules.
The worst one of all time was Patriot beating Bret Hart on Raw to get a title shot just because it was USA vs Canada and that shit ended up on Ground Zero?
Taker/Michaels saved that PPV from being a stinker (though marked out for Savio beating Faarooq and Crush cos I was a Savio mark).
Honestly, I don't hate the "guy comes out and attacks the champ and he's immediately the champ's next title contender" angle.
That's not bad.
Its pretty believable that somebody who got jumped and got his ass kicked would want to fight the guy who jumped him and kicked his ass. So babyface who just got his ass kicked puts the title on the line to fast track a match between him and the heel who beat him up.
I do agree with you here, but only to the point when it's NOT overplayed, or they follow it up with something the fans don't care about and don't want. And of course, it only works with a face champ.
Think about Rollins for example, he overcomes the BEAST by defeating Lesnar. There's no way fans were going to be happy about Rollins moving on to feud next with Baron Corbin. Corbin had been jobbing so much (losing his authority figure status, his long losing feud with Strowman, losing to the Shield farewell match, despite beating a broken down Kurt Angle in a retirement match, etc.) Both Corbin and Rollins come out of the feud - which was extended for 2 PPVs - looking much worse for it.
Corbin hadn't looked like he has belonged anywhere near the top of the card for his entire career. Shoving him into a fued with Rollins was a mistake, and it could have been prevented if they'd treated him like a serious contender before hand. Or, instead of giving Rollins a rollup pinfall victory at Super Showdown, where Corbin got distracted by ref John Cone, they could have had Corbin DQ'd for a classic heel move like a low blow, thumb to the eye, etc. then Corbin give Rollins a beatdown after. They could have a rematch where fans would want to see it, but heel Corbin would have said he was DQ'd unfairly (perhaps earlier in the match the ref hadn't started counted Rollins out early enough, etc) , and deserved to pick his own ref - basically getting the same match next, but Corbin looking smarter and more heelish, and giving Rollins a reason to want to put his title on the line again.
It's a tough way to get over, but they've finally done something right with Corbin to give him some credibility. He's finally had some decent matches along the way to becoming KOTR. And since he now has the scepter and crown, he can get classic heel heat by attacking his opponents. And since Becky and the Rock gave him the STD chant, maybe the fans won't be so bored by his appearances.
I think the reality is that Corbin can make something seem like it's working for about 2 seconds then we realize, great, another attempt at trying to make Corbin a big deal because he's tall. He's not shitty, he's just not a top tier player like they keep trying to position him as.
I feel like this stance is a softened take from you now, which I appreciate lol. He's absolutely perfect as a midcard heel, gatekeeper just getting some ready to move up to a bigger program. Corbin can bubble up to a title program in a spot situation (a random PPV) but then transition back down to a minor program. He really showed me something to validate that stance by how he handled himself in the ring and talking during the KOTR tournament. All of those matches he had were better than they should have been. Some of that is due to the opponent he faced but he certainly held his end of the bargain.
Basically if you put it all together - talking, wrestling, usage - I'd say the ideal range for him is 6.5 but they lean and push it to an 8, borderline 8.5.
Yeah man, to be honest he could get released tomorrow and I wouldn't mind at all. He reminds me of dudes like Jack Swagger or Chris Masters. Not terrible, but nothing that screams top tier main event guy. I don't even like Corbin dipping in and out of World title programs because that means we have to put up more of him lol.
I truly think that Constable Corbin shit killed him. Wayyyyyy too much tv time. And again, nothing really sticks when they try to push him to the moon. It's a shame Drew McIntyre is apparently hurt, because everything they've done with Corbin lately would have been much, much better with Drew.
I have definitely improved my opinion on Corbin since the KOTR tournament. I think of him more like a potential Miz than a Chris Masters. Miz will never be top-level in the ring, but he understands storytelling and classic heel tactics - and even though Miz is much more talented on the mic, we have to remember that much of Miz's early mic work was cringeworthy. But he worked at it and got better, like Corbin is doing. Masters was a big dude who got better in the ring as time went on, but he never seemed to catch on with his character. Jack Swagger is probably a fair comparison - but Swagger was finally getting interesting, and over, with his "We the People" gimmick, when his contract ended and he wanted to try MMA.
There are some guys who will never be great on the mic, but can make up for it with their ring work, and ability to get a reaction from the crowd (Tito Santana, Gable, etc.) There are others who are okay in the ring, but may be stronger with their size/look or their characters / mic work (Hogan, JBL, Miz for example). Few have both (Jake the Snake, Eddie Guererro, Kevin Owens, Kurt Angle come to mind).
Corbin wasn't ready on both fronts when he first arrived on the main roster, but he had the size that Vince liked. Kind of like Roman Reigns. But while Reigns was overpushed too soon as a face, Corbin was overpushed too soon as a heel. But I don't think Corbin is nearly as good as Reigns.
I'll continue to watch, but my brand loyalty to WWE , something which had been bone deep, has almost entirely faded away.
Maybe I could live with the tone deafness without Saudi blood money. But it is what it is.
Some people on here have been pointing out Corbin is brilliant and has been for ages for, well, ages.
Like them performing in Saudi Arabia is the worst thing-or place-they've ever done....
People wouldn't even care about WWE running Saudi Arabia if it hadn't been for that Svengoolie what's his face journalist getting hacked up like a Thanksgiving turkey.
Give it time, and WWE running Saudi Arabia is only going to annoy the most hardest of hardcore SJW fucks who get upset when there isn't a women's match on the show.
It should annoy normal wrestling fans that the Saudi shows have been pretty weak with bad wrestling and blowing big angles and matches on filler shows that nobody cares about. Not whether or not women can drive cars.
Also, completely unrelated but... where the fuck have the Usos been? Are they both out injured? WWE could use them back on TV. Maybe to bolster Smackdown!'s tag-team division.
Last I heard, one of the Uso's got yet another DUI and was looking at likely spending a month in the Uso Penitentiary.
Corresponds to Naomi getting forgotten as well
Oof.
That's rough.
Those guys need to get off the sauce and get back to WWE, pronto.
Hell, maybe they'll get added to NXT? They could say since they were out and ineligible for the draft, that Triple H has made an executive decision as the head of NXT to draft all three of them- Usos and Naomi - as a unit to NXT.
Re: Naomi, she recently made a post about why she's been missing:
Not real positive we should create a thread for it but WWE Backstage was fantastic. This is the Renee I love and the Renee I miss. She is just such a natural in this environment. The show moved well and was fast paced in a good way. Booker did wonderful as well and fit in just like a glove. We will have to see how the show rolls along in the future but I think it's a nice bridge to garner interest in the WWE.
I think the biggest tidbit last night on Backstage was the report on Austin teasing 'one more match'.
Let the speculation begin on his opponent...
Is this a US only Fox show we're talking about, yeah?
It's on FS1.
Mentioned it on this week's Raw thread, but the show definitely has something to build off of. It's got a Talking Smack vibe with more Fox formatting. It's going to be tough to walk the line between legit constructive criticism and working with the actual story being told weekly on the programs. An hour might be too long for this show because there felt like a strong amount of fluff but some of it was pretty entertaining. This show would definitely take on a different life if Punk was, in fact, added on.
Yes, the USA has done some horrible stuff in the past and present, but we still watch WrestleMania with glee. I legitimately believe that when WWE signed the Saudi contract they went into it thinking they will help make a change in the country.
I do as well. We can't expect every culture to follow our lead, it's not right and it's unfair to do a pissing contest when it comes to who has done what right and wrong more than the other.
lol.
lol
Yeah they don't really care about the millions of dollars. They're doing it to inspire hope!
I know that's sarcasm Badger, but that's what I believe. I'm sorry you all think it's fucking laughable. Is that what I am, just one big stupid joke
Ach enough of the self-pity Donald, I was just teasin ye!
I’m sure WWE would like change as much as anyone else, but as long as they’re getting paid well they’ll still do these shows. They’re at the Saudi’s beck and call, they know they can’t change them.
Stand up for what you believe in, @Donald. You're not one big stupid joke. You're more like a whole series of small stupid jokes. (Just kidding, you know I couldn't resist with that kind of set up)
And for the record, I don't think the Saudi agreement was completely for the money either. They are thinking about long term worldwide market expansion money, which will dwarf what the Saudi prince gave them.
Vince has made some great business decisions over the years, and his hiring of George Wilson and Michelle Barrios as co-Presidents was a great move. They have helped expand the WWE brand internationally, and the global growth is stunning. The presence alone of a series of international PPV events in Saudi land will change the country. It may not be at the pace that some of us would prefer, but I would bet that before the 10 year agreement is over, the rules/restrictions will have relaxed. We may not see Charlotte vs. Sasha v. Bayley vs. Becky in the ring at Crown Jewel, and I certainly doubt that Lana will be invited to Riyadh to get a massage wearing only a towel, but we might get Steph introducing a match, or Renee on commentary. Who wouldn't love to see Steph take the green mist from Asuka?
The WWE are smart. I think they want to genuinely see change happen, but it's not all they're about obviously. Nobody is doing this shit for free in any aspect of entertainment. But they're smart in the sense that they will be able to attach their name when people talk about progress in these countries.
They don't want change, they want money.
I truly feel that they want change because they know it's needed to keep making money but they have no solid idea on how to make change happen.
But you can see them trying. It's kind of sad but they're trying.
Wow. This did 597,000 viewers. I'm not sure why I'm impressed with that number but that seems impressive for a show that wasn't really promoted and was on FS1. It had a nice lead-in with the ALCS game but still.
So you can't have both? It has to be one or the other?
Are people even sure as to why they care so much about the WWE going to Saudi Arabia?
Who's saying that?
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