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Thread: The Marvel Cinematic Universe films

  1. #701
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Avoiding spoilers, so will keep it brief. Booked tickets at my local theatre because I’ve only seen like 6 of the films. This gives me 6 weeks to ‘catch up’.

    According to the Russo brothers, the only 4 films you really ‘need’ to see are Winter Soldier, Civil War, Ragnarok and Infinity War. Is this accurate, do we think? Planning on watching Winter Soldier tonight, but feels weird to skip the first Captain America film.

  2. #702
    World Champion Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    usa
    Maybe those are the basics of what needs to be seen but there were references to way more movies. I watched them all before seeing Endgame again and I think it amplified my enjoyment.



    There are tons of little moments like this. Try to see as many as you can. @Bill Casey's MCU rewatch thread is a fun way to watch them.

  3. #703
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    Endgame is the one movie where you actually benefit from having watched all of them. It probably references every single movie in some way, more than any previous movie has.
    But if you had to pick 4 movies to watch before Endgame, Infinity War is a must of course, but after that its tricky as you're having to decide between whether you want to watch the better movie or the one that's more closely tied to Endgame. Winter Soldier is great, but how closely does it really related to the new movie? Probably not THAT much IMO.

    I want to say maybe the first Avengers, Civil War, Doctor Strange, and then Infinity War. If you could, I'd get Thor Ragnarok in there before Infinity War as well.

  4. #704
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Honestly, if you skip to Avengers and leave out Iron Man 3 and the first Ant Man, you will should ok. As boring as Thor 2 is, it's a sorta important to EndGame.

  5. #705
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    The thing is, if you skip Iron Man 1 and 2, The Incredible Hulk, Captain America, and Thor, you can basically watch the first Avengers and get a brief understanding of who the characters are from those first movies. And of course you cant miss Infinity War, so that leaves you with two movie choices to pick up as much info as possible. Civil War gives you the important storyline plus the intro to a few of the newer characters, and then Doctor Strange I guess you have to see because you dont really learn anything about his character outside of his movie. Between those movies, the only thing you're missing out on is the Guardians of the Galaxy.
    IMO if you want to fast track everything without missing too much, I suggest you watch at least 6 movies. Avengers, Civil War, GotG, Doctor Strange, Thor Ragnarok, and Infinity War.

    EDIT
    Just realised Murphy has already seen some of the movies, so I guess that changes everything.

  6. #706
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Wow. Just, wow. What an amazing movie. I’d say it was everything I hoped and then some.


  7. #707
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Really any movie with the infinity stones is going to be important. It's also a bit silly for the Russo Brothers to say the movies you should watch are the ones we made.

  8. #708
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    Based on Infinity War ($257,698,183), anyone want to suggest this will cross $300 million for the opening weekend?

    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post
    I think it will for sure.

    I also saw this morning that the MCU has crossed the $18 billion mark for total box office. Obviously between Captain Marvel and Endgame and the next Spider-Man in July they're looking at another possible $4 billion by the end of this year. I bet nobody's wildest dreams had them making that much.
    $350 million domestically. $1.2 billion international in 5 days. Thatís insane.

  9. #709
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    That was an experience. So much to process. It's a love letter to fans who have been watching this series over the past decade. For anyone who watched that party scene in Age of Ultron and wanted more of the Avengers handing out together, this is the film for you. The first act is incredibly bold for a blockbuster - it's certainly not a film that can be accused of following the well-worn path of modern superhero movies. It's basically a drama that just happens to have superhero and sci-fi elements. Massive plot spoilers below:


  10. #710
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    yugoslavia
    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    EDIT
    Just realised Murphy has already seen some of the movies, so I guess that changes everything.
    Ha, should have been clearer, shouldn’t I.

    I’ve seen Iron Man, both Guardians, all 3 Thor films and, just now, The Winter Soldier, which was excellent.

    I’ve got 6 weeks, I may try and get in as many as possible, maybe even all of them.

  11. #711
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Ha, should have been clearer, shouldn’t I.

    I’ve seen Iron Man, both Guardians, all 3 Thor films and, just now, The Winter Soldier, which was excellent.

    I’ve got 6 weeks, I may try and get in as many as possible, maybe even all of them.
    Great.
    In that case, Avengers, Civil War, Doctor Strange, and then Infinity War, and that probably covers everything. Avengers gives you the first major crossover story, and set the tone for the rest of the MCU, Civil War will introduce and incorporate most of (if not all) the characters from the movies you skip over, and then Doctor Strange fills in the last gap in the Infinity Stones saga.

  12. #712
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    That was an experience. So much to process. It's a love letter to fans who have been watching this series over the past decade. For anyone who watched that party scene in Age of Ultron and wanted more of the Avengers handing out together, this is the film for you. The first act is incredibly bold for a blockbuster - it's certainly not a film that can be accused of following the well-worn path of modern superhero movies. It's basically a drama that just happens to have superhero and sci-fi elements. Massive plot spoilers below:


  13. #713
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    Probably the best moment in the movie for me was...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Maybe those are the basics of what needs to be seen but there were references to way more movies. I watched them all before seeing Endgame again and I think it amplified my enjoyment.



    There are tons of little moments like this. Try to see as many as you can. @Bill Casey's MCU rewatch thread is a fun way to watch them.

  14. #714
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post

  16. #716
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virmicious View Post

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    Truth teller virms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrison View Post

  18. #718
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    Endgame is the one movie where you actually benefit from having watched all of them. It probably references every single movie in some way, more than any previous movie has.
    But if you had to pick 4 movies to watch before Endgame, Infinity War is a must of course, but after that its tricky as you're having to decide between whether you want to watch the better movie or the one that's more closely tied to Endgame. Winter Soldier is great, but how closely does it really related to the new movie? Probably not THAT much IMO.

    I want to say maybe the first Avengers, Civil War, Doctor Strange, and then Infinity War. If you could, I'd get Thor Ragnarok in there before Infinity War as well.
    Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy, Civil War, Infinity War...
    Doctor Strange and Thor Ragnarok would be up there, as would Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron, and I would extend the watch list to them, but I think GOTG1 has more direct relevance...






    Plus, you get to know half a dozen relevant characters in a single film, and I feel like the more characters you know going into Infinity War/End Game, the better...
    Last edited by Bill Casey; April 29th, 2019 at 5:38 AM.

  19. #719
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    If I had ten films...

    - The Avengers
    - Guardians of the Galaxy
    - The Winter Soldier
    - Age of Ultron
    - Civil War
    - Doctor Strange
    - Black Panther
    - Ant Man & The Wasp
    - Thor Ragnarok
    - Infinity War

    Last edited by Bill Casey; April 29th, 2019 at 5:57 AM.

  20. #720
    Pissed Off MTR's Avatar
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    Amazing movie. Loved it. Glad I got to see it in theaters. So many times I end up waiting. I will give some detailed thoughts later.

  21. #721
    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    Yeah I'd recommend Ant Man & The Wasp as prior viewing.

    Main thought on Endgame:
    Holy moly that wasn't just watching a movie. That was an experience. Have seen it twice already and still absolutely frothed over it the second time around.

    Discussing a couple of plot points others have brought up

  22. #722
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmo Fortyone View Post

  23. #723
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    Whatever it takes...


  24. #724
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    Like everyone, I thoroughly enjoyed this. Due to some family issues we were not sure what day we'd get to see this. By Saturday afternoon, all the theaters within a 40 minute ride of us were completely sold out - except for one 60 year old place that did not have the recliner seats. Being a fat guy, I was not about to squeeze my arse into a non-reclining seat for 3 hours. Then late Saturday around 9PM, we checked again as my wife said she was willing to sit in her late father's wheelchair and I could have the accompanying recliner seat - there were dozens of single handicap accompanying seats left that they sell to anyone just before the show. But somehow the theater had just opened up another show early - at 10 AM. They must have figured it was worth paying overtime to run another show if they had a full house. So we got to sit together, both in the luxury heated recliner seats.

    I agree that its definitely worth seeing Ant Man & the Wasp before this one.

    As for the story itself -


  25. #725
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    I have never experienced more crying in a movie theater than when I saw Endgame. There were people audibly sniffling/crying all around.

  26. #726
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    'The Fault in Our Stars' is the noisiest crying I've ever heard in the cinema. Like so loud that people started laughing at how many people were crying.

  27. #727
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    I think my theater was pretty tame in regards to emotions. Not a lot of clapping, cheering, or crying.

  28. #728
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    I was happy to be in a pretty loud theater for Endgame. Lots of cheering and clapping


    There was lots of tears when I saw Furious 7.

  29. #729
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    Joe Russo did a Q and A, explaining some stuff from the movie. Loads of Endgame spoilers in this, of course.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...medium=ios_app

  30. #730
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post

    As for the story itself -

    Iíll answer some of your questions in my spoiler


  31. #731
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    Joe Russo did a Q and A, explaining some stuff from the movie. Loads of Endgame spoilers in this, of course.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...medium=ios_app
    This was pretty helpful.

    My general thoughts on the movie:


  32. #732
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post


  33. #733
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAl View Post

  34. #734
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  35. #735
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Just back from seeing it. Thought that it was good but not more than that. Certainly not perfect in any respect, it was littered with weak plot points and I personally found Infinity War to be a much better film. But it was definitely a cinematic experience worth having.

  36. #736
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    Fuck that was insane. Lived up to expectations and more!

  37. #737
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    OK, watched Infinity War last night, Endgame today. Enjoyed the hell out of it (though that's the only marvel film I've seen since Captain Marvel so yeah some of the finer points probably went right the hell over my head). Even without knowing all of the fine details though the film more than stood on its own merits.

    The final battle was a long series of awesome moments and I loved every second of it.

  38. #738
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Kevin Smith aka Silent Bob liked it (of course he did), and did a great job explaining what he liked about it as a fan after one viewing (at the premiere)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-6a5GCkR7A

    Some of the comments on there are pretty good.
    This was a great recap... very helpful to someone like me who doesn't remember a lot of the MCU and has never read comics. And his enthusiasm makes me appreciate the movie more.

    I’m really glad Kevin Smith didn’t die.
    Last edited by Fro; May 1st, 2019 at 11:09 PM.

  39. #739
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    It's a great recap, but he gets the
    wrong...

  40. #740
    ... Beer-Belly's Avatar
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    Thor steals the show here.

  41. #741
    Truth teller virms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Casey View Post
    It's a great recap, but he gets the
    wrong...
    Based off of dragon ball z time traveling.

    And the fucker started crying. Get a grip Smith!

  42. #742
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Casey View Post
    It's a great recap, but he gets the
    wrong...
    What did he say that was wrong

  43. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    What did he say that was wrong
    Last edited by Bill Casey; May 2nd, 2019 at 10:16 PM.

  44. #744
    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    Bill would you say that Thano's bladed weapon resembled that of another device with blades?

    Like blades that spin to provide lift?

  45. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmo Fortyone View Post
    I'd say it was


  46. #746
    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    It's as good as we'll get I reckon but I'll take it!

  47. #747
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Casey View Post
    Gotcha. I did already know all that for the record, but I sort of missed Kevin Smith's mis-telling of it. I think maybe he also understood it and just didn't describe it well (not positive).

    Anyhoo, this is going to beat Avatar for the highest grossing movie of all time, it seems. I plan to see it a second time.

  48. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by virmicious View Post
    And the fucker started crying. Get a grip Smith!
    Last edited by Bill Casey; May 4th, 2019 at 1:14 AM.

  49. #749
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  50. #750
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmo Fortyone View Post
    Bill would you say that Thano's bladed weapon resembled that of another device with blades?

    Like blades that spin to provide lift?
    https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...rmed_a_theory/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Anyhoo, this is going to beat Avatar for the highest grossing movie of all time, it seems. I plan to see it a second time.
    Its already at nearly $2.2b apparently. Avatar currently sits at nearly $2.8b. And to think this wasnt even a December release.

  53. #753
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    YYEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!

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    I have a new name for...

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    That's @Donald worthy

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    New Spider-Man trailer. It has Endgame spoilers so avoid it if you havent seen the movie yet.

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    It looks like there's a LOT going on based off that trailer.

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    Yeah

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    Can we stop with the spoiler tags in here yet since the ban has been lifted across the internet?

    Anyway, that Spidey trailer is not that great to me. While I think the time heist worked well in Endgame, I really hope the MCU doesn't become entrenched in a multiverse because to me that is overly confusing and not very entertaining. So the fact that the multiverse is seemingly a big plot point in Far From Home ("he's from Earth, but not our Earth") is not what I want to see. Loki (who is very much dead) getting a spin off show on Disney+ in the alternate universe where he snuck off with the tesseract in the past - also not what I want to see. It's asking a lot for the viewer to care about all these alternate realities. Having said that, the MCU is really good at what they do so I have faith that they won't make it too ridiculous.

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    I know they said it but Mysterio is known for using smoke and mirrors would be surprised if the use of a mutiverse is just that on this occasion.

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    That's even assuming that the whole 'he's from another Earth' isn't just a plot-point swerve to begin with.

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    I don't trust anything Mysterio says...
    That's a very convenient way for him to just show up out of nowhere as a superhero...
    The core essence of the character is he's a very good con artist...
    Trust nothing when it comes to Mysterio...
    Last edited by Bill Casey; May 6th, 2019 at 4:02 PM.

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    I'm not even sure whether or not the other villains in this movie are real...

  64. #764
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    So, in that trailer, Nick Fury said...

    Last edited by Bill Casey; May 7th, 2019 at 1:07 AM.

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    New trailer is fucking fantastic. Definitely excited for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Casey View Post
    So, in that trailer, Nick Fury said...

    I want to think its true, purely for the sake of the possibilities it opens up. But then also a part of me thinks that a revelation that big probably wouldn't have been revealed in the trailer if it was real.
    Last edited by RuneEdge; May 7th, 2019 at 11:14 AM. Reason: typo

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    My oldest son and I finally saw this last night. GREAT MOVIE. Not just a great superhero movie, arguably top 5, but just a great movie altogether. Robert Downey Jr is one of the greatest actors ever.

    Battle scene at the end was like something out of Lord of the Rings, fucking loved it. Some very emotional spots. Grown ass men including myself tearing up, some crying, some women laughing at their man crying lol. Loved it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Can we stop with the spoiler tags in here yet since the ban has been lifted across the internet?

    Anyway, that Spidey trailer is not that great to me. While I think the time heist worked well in Endgame, I really hope the MCU doesn't become entrenched in a multiverse because to me that is overly confusing and not very entertaining. So the fact that the multiverse is seemingly a big plot point in Far From Home ("he's from Earth, but not our Earth") is not what I want to see. Loki (who is very much dead) getting a spin off show on Disney+ in the alternate universe where he snuck off with the tesseract in the past - also not what I want to see. It's asking a lot for the viewer to care about all these alternate realities. Having said that, the MCU is really good at what they do so I have faith that they won't make it too ridiculous.
    It's asking a lot but it's not like we haven't experienced an approach where you have to actually pay attention to what's going on. If you don't read comic books then this might be a foreign concept, I can respect that because a lot of people into these movies are simply into them because it's what is popular. They're not used to reading stories that crossover with other characters and having to get this particular series of Capt America to understand the other arc in Iron Man.

    But that's what they've been doing with the movies. If you specifically followed just the Avengers movies, you'd have about half the story but you could still get into it. I mean there's like 20 Marvel movies that all tie in to teach other. As you said, they're good at what they do, I don't think it'll be a confusing mess at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It's asking a lot but it's not like we haven't experienced an approach where you have to actually pay attention to what's going on. If you don't read comic books then this might be a foreign concept, I can respect that because a lot of people into these movies are simply into them because it's what is popular. They're not used to reading stories that crossover with other characters and having to get this particular series of Capt America to understand the other arc in Iron Man.

    But that's what they've been doing with the movies. If you specifically followed just the Avengers movies, you'd have about half the story but you could still get into it. I mean there's like 20 Marvel movies that all tie in to teach other. As you said, they're good at what they do, I don't think it'll be a confusing mess at all.
    Getting immensely bogged down with decades of convolution, crises and crossovers would be completely appropriate for a medium based on comic books. That's one of the factors slowly strangling the life out of actual comics. That and the method of distribution, measurements of success and changing methods of media consumption, but that's a topic for another time.

    I really hope Phase 4 is used as a cool-off for the characters. Spiderman is capping off phase 3, giving the last decade a salute and final tribute, dealing with the emotional fallout of the decimation and what it cost to undo it. What we need now is to establish a new status quo. Have characters go on their own personal journeys again. What does it mean to be the Sorcerer Supreme when the eye you have been guarding is no more. What does that mean for Dormamu? How can Sam carry the weight of the shield - to represent his idol and the country he fought for? Quill wants to find Gamora, but she's literally not the same person any more and she probably doesn't want to be found. How does that work out? Thor ran away from his responsibilities for five years, due to his failure passing them off to Valkyrie. Can he really just hide in Space with the Guardians? How does someone not trained for the position, that's just as much of a warrior as Thor handle the crown? Captain Marvel has spent three goddamn decades being a solo intergalactic superhero. She's returned to earth at long last - an entire team, fuck the whole concept - named in her honour and it has just lost its heart and soul and most of its experienced members. Can she really leave again? Captain Marvel (the film) was driven by Carol's character relationships. At first with Starforce, then with Nick, Talos, Maria and Monica. Yeah, she can handle herself and anything that's a threat. But she can't do everything. She can't be everywhere. She's needed in the here and now. Plus some people saw Talos in Endgame. Why is he on Earth? It's time for her to step up and be a leader. Also, Monica's an adult now - can we have Photon? Also, We've got the introductions of Shang-Chi (thank fuck they don't really use codenames in the MCU because Master of Kung Fu is a terrible name), the Eternals and probably more to deal with as well.

    The Multiverse exists. Cool, but I think it should be present more in the background than anything else. We don't need to go all Crisis on Infinite Earths. It can be a plotpoint without being the whole plot, much like the Avenger Initiative itself was in phase 1 and 2.

  69. #769
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
    Getting immensely bogged down with decades of convolution, crises and crossovers would be completely appropriate for a medium based on comic books. That's one of the factors slowly strangling the life out of actual comics. That and the method of distribution, measurements of success and changing methods of media consumption, but that's a topic for another time.

    I really hope Phase 4 is used as a cool-off for the characters. Spiderman is capping off phase 3, giving the last decade a salute and final tribute, dealing with the emotional fallout of the decimation and what it cost to undo it. What we need now is to establish a new status quo. Have characters go on their own personal journeys again. What does it mean to be the Sorcerer Supreme when the eye you have been guarding is no more. What does that mean for Dormamu? How can Sam carry the weight of the shield - to represent his idol and the country he fought for? Quill wants to find Gamora, but she's literally not the same person any more and she probably doesn't want to be found. How does that work out? Thor ran away from his responsibilities for five years, due to his failure passing them off to Valkyrie. Can he really just hide in Space with the Guardians? How does someone not trained for the position, that's just as much of a warrior as Thor handle the crown? Captain Marvel has spent three goddamn decades being a solo intergalactic superhero. She's returned to earth at long last - an entire team, fuck the whole concept - named in her honour and it has just lost its heart and soul and most of its experienced members. Can she really leave again? Captain Marvel (the film) was driven by Carol's character relationships. At first with Starforce, then with Nick, Talos, Maria and Monica. Yeah, she can handle herself and anything that's a threat. But she can't do everything. She can't be everywhere. She's needed in the here and now. Plus some people saw Talos in Endgame. Why is he on Earth? It's time for her to step up and be a leader. Also, Monica's an adult now - can we have Photon? Also, We've got the introductions of Shang-Chi (thank fuck they don't really use codenames in the MCU because Master of Kung Fu is a terrible name), the Eternals and probably more to deal with as well.

    The Multiverse exists. Cool, but I think it should be present more in the background than anything else. We don't need to go all Crisis on Infinite Earths. It can be a plotpoint without being the whole plot, much like the Avenger Initiative itself was in phase 1 and 2.
    I agree. I don't see this happening where it gets so convoluted you can't follow who's doing what. But again, they've been doing this for 10+ years. To the point where sometimes you have to watch Agents of Shield to understand a lot of what's going on in the movies. Personally I love it. I love the crossover stuff, I love having to THINK and REMEMBER what is going on and if I don't then another plus is rewatching certain shows/movies to catch up to speed.

    Personally, I think being able to reach into a bag and pull out Iron Man from another universe is a good thing because characters like that who are a constant in the Marvel world need to still be part of it in some way.

    Plus, we can't forget we're going to have X-Men and Fantastic Four I would assume within the next 3-5 years making their way in, if not sooner. Fuck I hope I'm not 50 before we see new Wolverine lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I agree. I don't see this happening where it gets so convoluted you can't follow who's doing what. But again, they've been doing this for 10+ years. To the point where sometimes you have to watch Agents of Shield to understand a lot of what's going on in the movies. Personally I love it. I love the crossover stuff, I love having to THINK and REMEMBER what is going on and if I don't then another plus is rewatching certain shows/movies to catch up to speed.

    Personally, I think being able to reach into a bag and pull out Iron Man from another universe is a good thing because characters like that who are a constant in the Marvel world need to still be part of it in some way.

    Plus, we can't forget we're going to have X-Men and Fantastic Four I would assume within the next 3-5 years making their way in, if not sooner. Fuck I hope I'm not 50 before we see new Wolverine lol.
    I agree with everything you said except bringing back characters via the "he's an alternate version" route. That's a cheap copout and it cheapens the sacrifice that was made. Also, RDJ is 54. If we wait 6 or more years for the next catastrophe he'll be in his 60s. It sends a poor message that when shit really hits the fan we call upon a 60 year-old and not the characters who have been given the torch since he retired.

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    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    I hope this isnt used to bring back the people they've killed off. RDJ got his send off. He doesnt need to reappear unless its as like a hologram message or maybe a small appearance. As far as starring roles go, he should be finished.
    I think the multiverse idea is more useful for retconning mutants and the Fantastic Four or something. You cant suddenly do a X-Men movie without explaining where they've been all this time while the events of the MCU took place. And you can't just set it in the future when being a holocaust survivor is part of Magneto's character for example.

    Something worth noting is that when the Russo brothers are asked in interviews to explain how time travel works in the MCU, they keep referring to the idea as "a multiverse" (before the Spider-Man trailer had even dropped). That's the term they go with rather than calling it "multiple timelines" or time branching or something. So there's a real chance that this is where the MCU is heading.

  72. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
    I agree with everything you said except bringing back characters via the "he's an alternate version" route. That's a cheap copout and it cheapens the sacrifice that was made. Also, RDJ is 54. If we wait 6 or more years for the next catastrophe he'll be in his 60s. It sends a poor message that when shit really hits the fan we call upon a 60 year-old and not the characters who have been given the torch since he retired.
    I guess it all depends on why they would need to pull a "Deceased" character from another universe.

    I fail to see the poor message being sent. So we put an age limit on super heroes and what they can contribute? Again, it really depends on why they would bring back Iron Man or Black Widow or Steve Rogers.

    And the great thing about Iron Man is that Tony doesn't even have to be in the suit. There's a good chunk of the comics, hell even some of the movies, where he's not in the suit, operating it remotely. Age doesn't mean anything in this world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RuneEdge View Post
    I hope this isnt used to bring back the people they've killed off. RDJ got his send off. He doesnt need to reappear unless its as like a hologram message or maybe a small appearance. As far as starring roles go, he should be finished.
    I think the multiverse idea is more useful for retconning mutants and the Fantastic Four or something. You cant suddenly do a X-Men movie without explaining where they've been all this time while the events of the MCU took place. And you can't just set it in the future when being a holocaust survivor is part of Magneto's character for example.

    Something worth noting is that when the Russo brothers are asked in interviews to explain how time travel works in the MCU, they keep referring to the idea as "a multiverse" (before the Spider-Man trailer had even dropped). That's the term they go with rather than calling it "multiple timelines" or time branching or something. So there's a real chance that this is where the MCU is heading.
    One thing that does make it tough when a character is based on historical moment in time is how do you tell the story of Magneto being 15 during World War 2 without making him 100? I said this in my post above, age doesn't matter but I'm meaning moreso in a realistic sense. Magneto isn't Iron Man. I wouldn't want a 100 year old Magneto without some type of story as to WHY he's 100 and can still go. Does he just have metal in his body that allows him to function, to heal, idk, would be pretty dope.

    And for all we know, Magneto isn't even going to be a factor. It'd be weird as hell but I mean, the MCU Spider-Man has yet to incorporate the Green Goblin, easily his #1 enemy imo. It'll be cool to see how they incorporate the X-Men into the mix. I could not care less about the Fantastic Four, never was a fan of them just their villains and the heroes created out of their stories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I guess it all depends on why they would need to pull a "Deceased" character from another universe.

    I fail to see the poor message being sent. So we put an age limit on super heroes and what they can contribute? Again, it really depends on why they would bring back Iron Man or Black Widow or Steve Rogers.
    You're a wrestling fan. You ever get sick of seeing WWE roll out part timers and stars from 20 years ago to pop a rating because none of their current wrestlers are 'over enough'? Seeing young guys job out at the alter of 50 year-old 'Taker, zero fucks given Brock, Triple H or Shane McMahon? That's what resurrecting the characters who died in endgame would do.

    The issue isn't so much age. It's that the new guys aren't good enough. That you shouldn't care because the narrative is telling you that they're worse, inferior to those that came before them. Why should we care about Shuri (or in future movies) when we need to resurrect Tony Stark to save the day from Galactus? Why should we care about Sam if we bring back Steve Rogers in the next Avengers film? Why undercut the sacrifice of Natasha Romanov letting Clint Barton earn redemption and be there for his family by pulling a new one out of a parallel universe?

    Seriously, death being a short holiday to be reset by the next writer for an all new status quo is one of the biggest mistakes of modern comics. Why care about the Resurrection of Jean Grey when the A-list mutants (including her) are presumed dead?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    And the great thing about Iron Man is that Tony doesn't even have to be in the suit. There's a good chunk of the comics, hell even some of the movies, where he's not in the suit, operating it remotely. Age doesn't mean anything in this world.
    Or they can introduce Riri Williams. Or Shuri. Or Morgan (when she's older). Or have Rhodie take up the mantle of Iron Man in honour of his fallen best friend. Or Peter Parker takes his hinted position as heir of Iron Man.

    Sure, we can work around an old RDJ. The issue is that it is a terrible idea to bring him back in the first place.

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    The multiverse if it does exist will bring in the FF and X-Men. Honestly, you can't trust Mysterio.

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    Speaking of X-Men: How would you introduce them into the MCU? Just jump right in with an X-Men film?

    The Fantastic Four can... we just not? Has there been a good version of them at any time? The 90's cartoon sucked. The movies sucked all three times. The 00's series wasn't good. The only good thing about them is Doom and he doesn't need them serving as an anchor dragging him down. Also, Reid Richards is a fucking tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
    You're a wrestling fan. You ever get sick of seeing WWE roll out part timers and stars from 20 years ago to pop a rating because none of their current wrestlers are 'over enough'? Seeing young guys job out at the alter of 50 year-old 'Taker, zero fucks given Brock, Triple H or Shane McMahon? That's what resurrecting the characters who died in endgame would do.

    The issue isn't so much age. It's that the new guys aren't good enough. That you shouldn't care because the narrative is telling you that they're worse, inferior to those that came before them. Why should we care about Shuri (or in future movies) when we need to resurrect Tony Stark to save the day from Galactus? Why should we care about Sam if we bring back Steve Rogers in the next Avengers film? Why undercut the sacrifice of Natasha Romanov letting Clint Barton earn redemption and be there for his family by pulling a new one out of a parallel universe?

    Seriously, death being a short holiday to be reset by the next writer for an all new status quo is one of the biggest mistakes of modern comics. Why care about the Resurrection of Jean Grey when the A-list mutants (including her) are presumed dead?



    Or they can introduce Riri Williams. Or Shuri. Or Morgan (when she's older). Or have Rhodie take up the mantle of Iron Man in honour of his fallen best friend. Or Peter Parker takes his hinted position as heir of Iron Man.

    Sure, we can work around an old RDJ. The issue is that it is a terrible idea to bring him back in the first place.
    I am a wrestling fan. And sometimes nostalgia works out great. Especially for the short term. If The Rock came back and teamed up with Seth Rollins to fight Drew and Corbin, that would be the shit.

    I don't think they need to rely on RDJ, but they could use him down the line if need be in some way shape or form.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
    Speaking of X-Men: How would you introduce them into the MCU? Just jump right in with an X-Men film?

    The Fantastic Four can... we just not? Has there been a good version of them at any time? The 90's cartoon sucked. The movies sucked all three times. The 00's series wasn't good. The only good thing about them is Doom and he doesn't need them serving as an anchor dragging him down. Also, Reid Richards is a fucking tool.
    I would probably subtly drop some hints that they exist and maybe do an end credit scene with Guardians 3 or Capt Marvel 2. And then you just drop a brand new X-Men and maybe incorporate Hulk v. Wolverine somehow?

  79. #779
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    While I'm generally anti-time travel and universe jumping, the idea of having Fassbender, McAvoy, JLaw and the gang in the MCU would be cool. Magneto would seemingly be very effective against Iron Man and Cap's shield. It would be a hurdle to explain the universe warping in a way that wouldn't irk me on some level but hey it's all just super heroes and fake science anyway. The multiverse thing would be worth it in that situation to hold onto those really good cast members rather than having to reboot.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I mean, it's almost impossible to assume that a lot of these new new characters will one day trump the flag bearers of Marvel. And it's, idk, setting yourself up for failure to assume all it would take is "killing off" the bigger names like Iron Man and Capt America and these new characters will have to be accepted and become huge.

    Kotre talked about wrestling. Look @ Roman Reigns. They just thought, ah, we'll have him beat Cena, Undertaker, Lesnar, Daniel Bryan, all the super over talents and he'll just by default fill their void. It doesn't really work like that especially with iconic comic book heroes.

    But again, I'm not saying that the MCU should 100% rely on those characters. I'm just saying it doesn't do any harm incorporating them in some fashion. Trying to FORCE us to look @ Shuri the same way we do Iron Man/Tony Stark just because someone said she's smarter than him. That shit takes time.

  81. #781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I am a wrestling fan. And sometimes nostalgia works out great. Especially for the short term. If The Rock came back and teamed up with Seth Rollins to fight Drew and Corbin, that would be the shit.

    I don't think they need to rely on RDJ, but they could use him down the line if need be in some way shape or form.
    I tire of this argument. Agree to differ I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I would probably subtly drop some hints that they exist and maybe do an end credit scene with Guardians 3 or Capt Marvel 2. And then you just drop a brand new X-Men and maybe incorporate Hulk v. Wolverine somehow?
    I figure that Mutants and their struggle is too important to Marvel lore for it not to be a major plot. By which I mean phase defining. So I'd probably do something similar. We've established that the snaps have damaged the world. Either there's a hole that people can travel through or the gamma shockwave has activated dormant genes. It's a small background mention at first. Reports of explosions, damage to properties. Just eastereggs for the obsessive fans to see in background news bulletins at first. Super powered humans are awakening at an unprescidented rate and they can't control their powers. The mentions keep getting bigger and bigger. Captain America helps with a plane crash in Alaska. After pulling survivors out of the rubble, the hospital is destroyed. No one knows how or why, but a lot of people dies in the collapse of the building. He has to deal with 'failing to protect people'. It's believed to be a terrorist plot. He goes to hunt down the 'bomber'. Eventually leading him to the Xavier Institute. He goes to confront the man who secreted away the bomber. But then he freezes, he can't move, it's clear he's trying but his body won't obey. Cut to black and we see him awakening outside the institute with Bucky. We never see who Sam sees. Just hear the voice. In a Black Panther/Wakanda centric film we meet Storm. She's not from Wakanda, but is from a nearby tribe. Not the main plot, but an important part of the film. Her power is powerful and she uses it to help defeat the actual enemy, but for the safety of others she agrees to be detained. Post/Mid credits a man stood in the shadows offers her a chance at clemency. He can help her. Protect her, teach her to use her gift. She agrees and is released. Again, we don't see the man but it's the same one as from Captain America: Hunt of the Falcon. Essentially Magneto seems to be recruiting some powerful fucking mutants. The established heroes don't like this new situation. They're dangerous. Normal people can accept the avengers. They're trained, they're heroes. These freaks are anything but. Wild, monsters, dangerous, inhuman creatures. Cap is with them. What kind of monster destroys a hospital full of badly injured people?

    Finally we get a mutant focused film centred around Kitty Pryde. Slightly nerdy, bullied at school. Not remarkable. Until one morning she wakes up in the basement, bedding hanging from the ceiling. Her powers have awoken. The main thrust of the film is Kitty is either hiding, or on the run. She knows she can't let anyone know. Mutants are freaks. Not to be trusted. Dangerous. J Jonah Jameson's news bulletins have a daily 'If you think someone's a mutant call this number.' Here's where I put my 'I loved and still love X-Men: Evolution' card on the table, because during the film she meets him. He's not evil but he's also not good, mostly just anger and unfocused rebellion but he's (mostly) learned to control his powers. The man in the shadows is after her too, but is forced to back off by Lance. He convinces her to use her powers to get past a locked door, and let him in. Once in he thanks her by stealing the information he was after. He wasn't (that) interested in helping her, only in using her. She runs from him. She has noone. She can't hide any more. She knows she can't keep running. Finally the man reveals himself to be Charles Xavier. He extends a hand to her. She takes it and is led to the Blackbird. Post credits Magneto offers Lance a place within his Brotherhood of Mutants. The next film is X-Men. Magneto has been assembling his own team. They fight. Xavier is wounded and paralysed from the hips down, forcing him into a wheelchair. Noone else falls, but that ends the fight after massive destruction. Magneto retreats, taking his followers with him, bar Lance who stays to help the X-Men with their efforts to help the survivors (though he also doesn't join the X-Men).

    I think it's important to have a buildup to the mutants and lead in with a solo film featuring a younger, more innocent protagonist than one of the big guns. One of the key things about the X-Men is that they represent oppressed people. If your major introduction to the X-Men is with a big ensemble title, that gets lost because more time has to be given to the cast. And unless you focus on one over the rest as the viewpoint character you can't build up that in the world. Yeah, we know who the X-Men are. They have had three (if you count Deadpool) successful film series spanning 19 years, in addition to the cartoons as well. But to accommodate the X-Men, the MCU must change and that should be done with a narrower scope and a build that befits it.

  82. #782
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Good stuff.

    Here is a clip from Far From Home where they explain more about the mutliverse. (This is a clip they showed on Ellen):

    https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/...175468545?s=20

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The X-Men movies had a darker tone than the Avengers stuff. I like that aspect, the variety. I was watching X-Men Apocalypse last night getting ready for Dark Phoenix and this is after I sat through 3 hours of Endgame. But even seeing the preview for Phoenix, you can tell the difference between those styles.

    X-Men were subtle with the comedy, whereas what we see now in the Avengers/MCU, more often than not people seem to enjoy the comedic aspects of those films over anything else. Some films like Black Panther for example don't really take that same approach as you'd see from Iron Man or Thor so that's always nice. It'll be interesting how the X-Men are handled especially if they don't exist whatsoever up until now.

    It would be cool if like with Endgame maybe we see something through the eyes of Cyclops or Jean Grey or Jubilee during the Age of Ultron or Civil War. Where they can avoid trying to put their own spin on the story and try to make sense of it all.

  84. #784
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Good stuff.

    Here is a clip from Far From Home where they explain more about the mutliverse. (This is a clip they showed on Ellen):

    https://twitter.com/LightsCameraPod/...175468545?s=20
    616 Universe...
    Thor: The Dark World...


    Ancient One on the multiverse...


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    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Bill Foster mentions multiple parallel realities...


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    The Thinking Man's Idiot Simmo Fortyone's Avatar
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    My feeling is that going all multiverse would spread everything too thin and lose some of the mass appeal the MCU has. One of the (if not the single) biggest strengths the whole series has had is that not having seen previous movies precludes you from enjoying any of them on their own. Yes, having seen them all gives you greater depth of involvement in the story, but anyone can watch only say Ant-Man or Thor Ragnarok and still enjoy it. My take is that because they don't need to spend time on exposition of the world the movies exist in (because they exist in the world as we already know it); here's an opening scene or three that showcases the feature character and off we go.

    If it goes all multiverse then either a) the exposition in every film from now on will need to be far more explicit, becoming tiresome for regular viewers, or 2) they don't do any, assume folks will catch up somehow else and risk losing their broader appeal.

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    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    My prediction with the new Spider-man movie will be we find out that Mysterio is lying about his multiverse origins, but at the very end someone will show up who really is from a multi-verse dimension.

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    Truth teller virms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Casey View Post
    616 Universe...
    Thor: The Dark World...


    Ancient One on the multiverse...

    To show everything in it's right place. Scott Lang's van ended up in storage locker 616.

  89. #789
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Anyway to get the mutants, FF, Doom and Galactus in here, I'm all for. People whinnying that we tried and failed with the FF is loser talk. I didn't think Thor, Cap or Iron Man would work and here we are $10 billion later. Shit, make the heralds the villians in Guardians and Capt. Marvel til we get to Galactus in Avengers 5. I expect the Skrulls or X-Men vs Avengers in Avengers 4.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmo Fortyone View Post
    My feeling is that going all multiverse would spread everything too thin and lose some of the mass appeal the MCU has. One of the (if not the single) biggest strengths the whole series has had is that not having seen previous movies precludes you from enjoying any of them on their own. Yes, having seen them all gives you greater depth of involvement in the story, but anyone can watch only say Ant-Man or Thor Ragnarok and still enjoy it. My take is that because they don't need to spend time on exposition of the world the movies exist in (because they exist in the world as we already know it); here's an opening scene or three that showcases the feature character and off we go.

    If it goes all multiverse then either a) the exposition in every film from now on will need to be far more explicit, becoming tiresome for regular viewers, or 2) they don't do any, assume folks will catch up somehow else and risk losing their broader appeal.
    I just think people are being way too negative about the multiverse and overthinking it as well. I don't think it will be remotely as convoluted as some are saying in this thread. I also wouldn't assume that "regular viewers" have the attention span of a gnat. Which I assume is very small IDK enough about gnats.

    Were people this confused about the last 3-4 X-Men movies including Logan? They jumped around quite a bit.

  91. #791
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    Anyway to get the mutants, FF, Doom and Galactus in here, I'm all for. People whinnying that we tried and failed with the FF is loser talk. I didn't think Thor, Cap or Iron Man would work and here we are $10 billion later. Shit, make the heralds the villians in Guardians and Capt. Marvel til we get to Galactus in Avengers 5. I expect the Skrulls or X-Men vs Avengers in Avengers 4.
    These stories were always fascinating to me. I know plenty of people over the last 15-20 years with the X-Men franchise and the MCU doing so well that we have wanted to see "what would happen if...." And now we can see what would happen if....

    Galactus has to be the next big big Thanos-level villain. I think with hindsight being 20/20 they could have held off on Ultron but that's already in the past. Or is it....?

  92. #792
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Feige said recently that the X-Men stuff is a little down the road in terms of bringing them into the MCU. He's saying that they planned the next 5-year phase of the MCU before the Fox merger was finalized so they don't have an immediate plan for X-Men to be incorporated (granted he could be just keeping it under wraps).

  93. #793
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    Anyway to get the mutants, FF, Doom and Galactus in here, I'm all for. People whinnying that we tried and failed with the FF is loser talk. I didn't think Thor, Cap or Iron Man would work and here we are $10 billion later. Shit, make the heralds the villians in Guardians and Capt. Marvel til we get to Galactus in Avengers 5. I expect the Skrulls or X-Men vs Avengers in Avengers 4.
    The other reason I'm in favour of just... not doing F4 is they fucking suck. Reid Richards is a notorious shithead that generally fucks up everything his 'genius' touches. Ben Grim is a Hulk Rehash with half the personality or story telling options. Johnny is a cocky little cigarette lighter. Sue Storm I have less issue with, but it is kinda sketchy that the only woman of the team's abilities boil down to staying out of the way, don't be seen and being defensive. It is hilarious how much better The Incredibles are at being the Fantastic Four than their inspirations.

  94. #794
    Ironclad Contract RuneEdge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Feige said recently that the X-Men stuff is a little down the road in terms of bringing them into the MCU. He's saying that they planned the next 5-year phase of the MCU before the Fox merger was finalized so they don't have an immediate plan for X-Men to be incorporated (granted he could be just keeping it under wraps).
    They wasted no time fitting Spider-Man into Civil War and the rest of the MCU the moment that became a possibility. Going as far as moving the release order of their movies around and deviating from their originally mapped out plan.
    Last edited by RuneEdge; May 8th, 2019 at 10:46 AM.

  95. #795
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Yeah you don't just sit on the X-Men until 2023. And we all know that companies try to plan shit out ahead of time but it never works out the exact way they want it to.

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    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Feige said recently that the X-Men stuff is a little down the road in terms of bringing them into the MCU. He's saying that they planned the next 5-year phase of the MCU before the Fox merger was finalized so they don't have an immediate plan for X-Men to be incorporated (granted he could be just keeping it under wraps).
    Assuming they keep making trilogies and Avengers films, they have what...

    1. Black Panther 2
    2. Black Panther 3
    3. Doctor Strange 2
    4. Doctor Strange 3
    5. Captain Marvel 2
    6. Captain Marvel 3
    7. Ant Man 3
    8. Guardians 3
    9. Spider-Man 3
    10. Shang Chi
    11. Shang Chi 2
    12. Shang Chi 3
    13. Black Widow
    14. Black Widow 2
    15. Black Widow 3
    16. Eternals
    17. Eternals 2
    18. Eternals 3
    19. Avengers 5

    Not including surprises...
    Although it would be a shame if Fantastic Four weren't in Phase Four...
    That's kind of too perfect...

  97. #797
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotre View Post
    The other reason I'm in favour of just... not doing F4 is they fucking suck. Reid Richards is a notorious shithead that generally fucks up everything his 'genius' touches. Ben Grim is a Hulk Rehash with half the personality or story telling options. Johnny is a cocky little cigarette lighter. Sue Storm I have less issue with, but it is kinda sketchy that the only woman of the team's abilities boil down to staying out of the way, don't be seen and being defensive. It is hilarious how much better The Incredibles are at being the Fantastic Four than their inspirations.
    You damn fool . without the FF there is no Marvel. Read Mark Ward's run. Learn you something.

  98. #798
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I said this yesterday but FF wasn't my thing but I enjoyed the villains.

    What's funny is the first 2 movies were not as bad as the most recent one. The first 2 had a Sam Raimi Spider-Man vibe, to me. Plus, anything Michael Chiklis is money to me. He made those 2 movies worth a damn and again, I didn't find the movies to be garbage at all. They looked cool, the storylines, especially the 2nd one with Silver Surfer and Galactus were good.

    But again....The comics, I just never got into them but I will admit I have not read a Fantastic Four comic since I was a kid. I mean I've read the older issues but nothing that's dropped in probably 25 years. I have comics and graphic novels that they're part of obviously but that's about it.

    And I'm curious....Where's Namor? Who owns that character. I remember fuck, years ago The Rock talked about playing Namor. That would have been so dope but I think it was literally around the time he was doing movies like DOOM and BE COOL He didn't have the stroke he has now and now he's doing his thing with DC which should help them tremendously.

  99. #799
    50/50 Booker TimeSplitter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    You damn fool . without the FF there is no Marvel. Read Mark Ward's run. Learn you something.
    Waid. It is Mark Waid.

    I believe that Namor's rights are with Universal like the Hulk. Some people said there was a possible Namor reference in Endgame.


  100. #800
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    Waid. It is Mark Waid.

    I believe that Namor's rights are with Universal like the Hulk. Some people said there was a possible Namor reference in Endgame.

    Oh that would be fucking awesome! I just took it as is like they played it off in the movie, no big deal just something that happened.

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