Troll post
Since January 4th 2011 4 men have been IWGP Heavyweight Champion. Hiroshi Tanahashi, Kazuchika Okada, AJ Styles, and Tetsuya Naito
Since January 4th 2011 17 men have been WWE Champion. That is not counting the big gold belt or the red belt Brock has now.
who's your pick for next guy other than kenny omega to hold the title who's not on that list?
Not really a troll there, just a fact. I feel like the IWGP Heavyweight Championship feels like a huge deal while the WWE title doesn’t...Originally Posted by Defrost
Especially considering the fact that Okada holds one title and Jinder Mahal holds the other...
I'd say Sanada but I think he's missing something. End of the day it might be Oka.
im not too optimistic about sanada. i think he's relatively weak in the ring. he's not close to being able to have main event matches at the naito/okada/omega/tanahashi standard.
Cool story bro.
They seem to have pushed EVIL pass him too.
I do honestly still think Goto ends up with a token Nakanishi zero defense reign.
it actually kinda is.
And also the fact that WWE have two World titles, which does nothing but lessen the credibility of both. Reading that they've had 17 different people hold that belt just sounded ridiculous so I went and wiki'ed the title histories to try and make sense of it.
It seems like there are several factors that has lead to this happening. First thing you'll notice when looking at the history is that there were about 5 MITB cash ins, most of which happened after the title had just changed hands (I guess for heel heat), so we're seeing double title changes in one night, on multiple occasions. A couple of times the title had to be vacated due to injury, which of course brings in a new champion as well.
But more importantly than that, the main reason IMO is the fact that there's two World titles even though there's usually only one real "face of the company". Usually what we have is one of the titles is held by the man who's supposed to be the main attraction while the other is treated like the secondary title. And the one that's secondary will change depending on the circumstance.
Like right now the Universal title is obviously the main title. The most credible guy on the roster currently holds it, who's clearly keeping it warm for when he passes it onto the guy who is being groomed as the next big star of the company. Meanwhile on Smackdown the WWE title is now passed around like a tool to get over their latest experiment. If you go back a few years to when we had the big gold belt, there were times when Cena, Trips or Taker were holding it, and that was then considered the main title belt, not the WWE title.
Now this isn't me trying to take blame away from WWE. This is totally their own fault for booking everything the way they have. And thinking about it, I believe it comes down to the thought that Vince likely doesn't perceive the World title as something sacred. What's more important is creating "entertainment" and getting the brand over, not the title.
NJPW's storytelling - without actual promos that run for 10 minutes is Godly. The prestige around the Heavyweight belt is immense. I feel like in the next 5-10 years, NJPW > WWE unless WWE changes it's presentation.
I would revamp it's image and change the company's name to either the World Wrestling Empire or World Wrestling Enterprise. I like both, the former makes it seem like - it is an absolute Dynasty with more of a global presence with tours all over the World -PPVS from Australia, Europe, New Zealand. I'd do away with SmackDown and if they want a legit interpromotional feud - I'd have NXT be the second brand, rename SmackDown to TakeOver and then you could keep NXT in one area with an arena. I was thinking if they should just keep the WWE in one location. RAW would always operate out MSG and PPVs would take place all over the World.
This stops the burn-out and fatigue wrestlers feel then you can focus on the Championships. The WWE Heavyweight Championship needs to return back to it's Eagle form, obviously updated. The NXT Heavyweight Championship would be on par with the WWE Heavyweight Championship.
WWE Intercontinental
NXT Junior Heavyweight
This should all happen when Vince retires completely from the Company. Have Shane and his boys run the WWE, Triple H and his staff run NXT and market PPVs similar to the WCW/nWo PPVs.
The way the stories are told - especially with Naito's babyface "top star" promo to being rejected by the fans to him going to Mexico and returning as a man who doesn't GAF but once he grabs the title that basically ruined his first run to headline WrestleKingdom you couldn't write a better story than that. NJPW is consistent. WWE is all over the place. It doesn't know what it wants to be. It's not a Sport. It's barely Entertaining. If you can bring that NJPW "KING OF SPORTS" feel to the WWE or at the least NXT then the WWE will have another golden age - this means...
FUCK OFF ALL SCRIPTED PROMOS. Let the guys do their own. Plan it out and work on their characters. We don't need the top babyface vs. CEO angle, we need fresh stories centered around the WWE or NXT Heavyweight Championships. If you have WWE/nXt Survivor Series where the NXT Champ goes over, rejects the WWE championship in favour for the NXT Championship (basically making it vacant) then you have NXT as a legitimate no-nonsense brand focused on Sports Wrestling.
The Attitude Era was great because the fans made it great but the matches were terrible. If you bring the Entertainment of the Attitude era through characters - not backstage skits but through character development like NJPW does then shit. The World Wrestling Empire would be a really good name for the Comapny's major overhaul and re-branding.
Right now though, I love Omega's work but when it comes to storytelling Naito all the way. I feel Naito will be 1. in next year's PWI.
i know youre just fantasy booking and all, but i guess this is the issue i have with fantasy booking, in varying degrees. other shit happens at msg on mondays. you've got knicks and rangers games, plus any number of live shows. i get that its all just for shits and giggles, but theres so many behind the scenes and logistical issues that none of us fans even fathom that makes solutions not as simple as we feel like they should be.
That post reminds me of something. For 15 years now I am stunned that a wrestling promotion hasn't popped up that can call itself the WWF. There are myriad reasons why WWF had to change to WWE that another promotion could easily avoid.
How does another company call themselves WWF and get away with it?
Lawyer up. WWE would sue, but would likely lose if the upstart could stick it out. Unfortunately, no upstart promotion is going to have the money to fight it out, or the interest in fighting that fight.
If a company called themselves "WW" then they'd get loads of promotion from WWE promos, based on everyone's weird inability to say "WWE" quickly.
Then most likely another East Coast Arena. Since I'm Kiwi, I'm not familiar with all the logistics but you get my point. You could have a circle of three around the East Coast where RAW would take place. With NXT taking place on the West Coast or the Mid-West. PPVs would tour everywhere around the World. Would save a shitload of money.
NXT-1 could be the dev league and replace NXT's position.
The biggest issue is that during the steroid trial the then World Wrestling Federation signed a deal with the World Wildlife Fund that was unnecessary and the World Wrestling Federation should never have agreed to it. Jerry McDevitt didn't know about it and was furious when he found out about it. Basically the deal was they couldn't market themselves as the WWF outside the United States. Which they did. All of the time. Including the WWF urls. Then it became an issue, and with the one sided deal they agreed to they had no real standing.
This is all pretty ridiculous.
wwe just turned over a ridiculous amount of money in the last quarter. Also as company who are contastly expanding into new markets I doubt they would want to stick out one venue.
some of the most bizarre ramblings over read on here in a while.
TAPS AFF!
When Naito was announced for Glory Pro I assumed it was just a favor to Elgin. Now he has an announced booking for AAW. Interesting that the possible IWGP Champ is taking these bookings outside of ROH in America.
On March 25th New Japan returns to Long Beach with a show in the Walter Pyramid. Place holds 5,000 for basketball.
Yessir. Anybody here plan on attending?
Looks like NJPW is starting to show post-match interviews with English subtitles. Pretty smart move by them.
Chris Jericho vs. Kenny Omega seems like an obvious ploy to get me to watch wrestling again.
I have never watched an Omega match ever (more out of laziness on my part), but I will watch this.
Only seen stuff from this year but he is damn good.
I just watched Omega v. Kushida from WK 2016. Great match.
To those who have seen it, Wrestle Kingdom II. Is it worth the watch? I was listening to Christian talk about how he wrestled on a WK card and looked it up. The card looks pretty awesome. It also feels like I should check out Angle v. Nakamura.
Not great. Almost unrecognizable from the product today.
New Japan are opening an English language YouTube channel tomorrow:
New Japan Pro Wrestling English Youtube Channel debuts December 1, 2017
The New Japan Pro Wrestling team is working hard on global branding and this is the next step.
The official New Japan Pro Wrestling English language Youtube channel will feature exclusive content, interviews, pre and post match comments from all New Japan Pro Wrestling stars including subtitles.
There's some fun stuff on the card but it came at the tail end of a pretty rough period for New Japan. Tanahashi hadn't cemented his status as the promotion's ace yet, Nakamura hadn't grown into himself as a character, the junior division was dominated by the ever disappointing Wataru Inoue, there were seemingly endless Most Violent Players/Dudley Boyz garbage matches. WrestleKingdom III, headlined by Mutoh very much passing the torch to Tanahashi, is the show I always see as the turning point. A big time card, good matches.
The best pre-WrestleKingdom name 1/4 Tokyo Dome shows probably took place between 91 and 95. Almost all really good.
..
I have a bit of a soft spot for Wrestle Kingdom II as it's the show that got me into NJPW (via TNA's Global Impact coverage), but being honest, Ringo's comments above are pretty much on point. Besides the main event and maybe Angle/Nagata, there's nothing I'd go out of my way to watch now.
Here and maybe a few years later were when I was really trying to follow Japanese wrestling as best as I could via wrestling mags and then eventually what little you could get on the internet in the late 90's. Did a lot of tape trading in high school with a guy who would order FMW, All-Japan, NJPW, and I'd hook him up with ECW shows I'd tape when they were on the Sunshine Network.
Congratulations to Daryl and Carol Takahashi on the birth of their son Daryl Jr.
https://twitter.com/TIMEBOMB1105/sta...14149139005440
1 hr sit down interview english subbed with Tanahashi
Every bit of the interview is great. His thoughts on the WK card, preferred foods, hair tips, and his favorite Kamen Rider. Tana is the man,
AXS is airing the Omega/Okada trilogy tonight.
Okada and Gedo Wonderland interview subbed. Click on cc
I missed the bit about the final 3 days of the G1 being in the Budokan. Huge.
Great post match angle there, planting the seeds for the possible Ibushi/Omega reunion, dissension in the Bullet Club between Kenny and Cody, and establishing Jay White as a lonewolf and Omega's next challenger.
The other three notable occurences were Suzuki targeting Tanahashi and the IC title, Bullet Club winning back the hot potato belts, and Chris Jericho going after Naito and setting up his return whenever that may be.
Thinking the main events of the three New Beginning shows will be Okada/SANADA, Omega/White and Tanahashi/Suzuki.
Last edited by Fanny Batter; January 5th, 2018 at 8:24 AM.
Naito/Jericho? Nice..
Jericho's resurgence has been amazing really. Like anytime he came back after 2013 he was just groanworthy, an embarrassing middle aged man with dodgy pecs and a midlife crisis tattoo turning up to play the greatest hits out of tune. Then he turns heel on Styles and he's just been on an incredible run character-wise, playing the cranky old villain with a superiority complex to absolute perfection. He was good with Owens, but this run in NJPW with the shackles off and the part-kayfabing on the podcasts and everything, he has been class. I don't think he'll clash as well with Naito quite as well as Omega, but putting a top 10 of the century (resume-wise) WWE guy against the popular native and doing the honours for him is great business for the international expansion.
I don't think it can be understated how well they've booked New Japan both for the native supporters and the growing international audience. They've always kept their fingers in the US pie (with the TNA and later ROH working agreements, as well as booking Lesnar, Sapp etc. over the years), but since they've really committed to growing the brand worldwide they've done a phenomenal job. Started really with the Styles-led Bullet Club getting prominent positions, but as soon as he handed his notice in they had the next transcendent North American star ready for the top of the card in Kenny Omega. Now using Jericho to put over Omega and Naito is a stroke of genius - of course his presence puts eyes on the product, but then those guys outshining and beating such a legend builds on that exposure. All the while establishing Okada as THE man, and maintaining Tanahashi in that John Cena role of "still the top guy". They keep Cody well protected too even though he's not over on the level of even a Goto over in Japan.
So, could we see Jericho/Naito on the March LA show combined with a Kenny Omega US title defense on top? Sounds pretty tasty to me..
Would almost tempt me to cross the Atlantic..
Lot to digest after NYD:
- Golden Lovers could lead to the BC split.
- Suzuki battering up Tana. MinoSu as IC champ would be ace
- Jay white as US champ wouldn't be terrible. Nice little belt to build him up
- Sanada/Okada is gonna be the fucking tits. Sanada is so stupid good.
- NEVER sixman belts changing hands at NYD is a joke at this point
- Naito and fucking Jericho. What a great pull apart brawl. I don't mind old man Chris hanging around for a bit.
Also saw someone toss the idea of Jay White breaking the NZ/Tonga crew off the BC and I kinda love it.
Jay, BLF, Tama Tonga, Tonga Loa, Leo Tonga, and Tony Bologna or whatever his name is can break away and do the supposed NZ tour NJPW are doing this year.
Yeah, there does seem to be a giant gap in the Bullet Club at this point. All the New Japan stables need tiers, but there's just no real connection to half of them. You've got the Tongan hosses, then the rest of them are wise-asses. And there's a pimp. It worked at the start because the burly, nasty guys were the insurance policies for the smaller guys, but there's not really much interaction between them anymore. I think it'd be an idea to separate them off with Jay White, who probably isn't good enough as a performer at the minute to be one of the only guys in New Japan to be a lone wolf.
Golden Lovers against SANADA/EVIL for the tag belts at some point could be the first time those belts headline an event in years.
i'd love NJPW to start running AJPW-style major tag matches with their big stars.
They could actually do it as well, cos it's not as if the tag belts are a separate draw anyway. I'd love it if on one of the lesser shows the main event was Okada/Goto vs. Golden Lovers for the tag titles or something, even though Okada is the IWGP champion. Would add juice to the big singles matches, like the famous tag matches did in All Japan. Helps that this era of New Japan isn't reliant on five wrestlers like 90's All Japan too.
I'd be stunned if they don't run a show in America this year headlined by the Golden Lovers against the Young Bucks.
It's pretty remarkable to see Jericho adding major points to his legacy at this stage of his career. Like a lot of people I was completely bored with him in his last few WWE runs, but then he really hit on something new and awesome with the List of Jericho character. And now this New Japan run is the coolest thing going in wrestling right now.
Cewsh and I talked about this on the New Japan episode of our podcast, but Jericho really seems to have a talent for identifying what's hot and associating himself with it. You can say that in a positive way or negative way depending on how you want to look at it. He wanted to work with Daniel Bryan at Wrestlemania 30 if WWE didn't have any big plans for him, he puts over CM Punk, Bray Wyatt, AJ Styles, whoever he thinks is going to be big. Hogan had the same talent/tendency to see what was going to be big and jump on-board.
The fact he's 47, came into this semi-unfamiliar realm, and performed as well as he did is a testament to his ability to work at a high level.
What I liked about Jericho's work in the match was that he was a legit heel. He also worked the stip to his advantage to really generate heat. Whoever had the idea to go after Red Shoes and his son, they've got a great head for figuring out how to add a layer to a match. I'm guessing it was probably him who came up with it.
He'll eventually find his way back to WWE and when he does, he'll find himself elevated even higher than what he was when he left (which is probably unfathomable). I mean, he really could find a way to work himself into the super part-time role of the Triple H, Lesnar, Goldberg's of the world.
finished new year dash, watched it throughout the day. such a fun show, really got me looking forward to the new feuds of the new year. i love how jericho clearly just LOVES being able to say fuck in new japan.
I’ve wanted this for ages. The tag division in New Japan has been the shits for so long but I guess there must be a reason. All japan and NOAH have used their top stars in the tag division for years. The teams at the World Tag League always get me excited but it never transpires.
I need to watch New Years Dash. Going to do what I can to watch and keep up now. My kids gave me a Bullet Club t-shirt for my birthday today.
after being absolutely apathetic towards jay white at wrestle kingdom, he looked great in that segment with omega.
that and throwing tables.
Jay White has joined CHAOS. He then told Okada “I only need you to deal with bullet Club, then I’m coming for you”
well, ok then. That’s pretty badass.
EVIL and SANADA's first defense is going to be against Okada and Goto
Fantastic news. Here’s to main event tags.
god damnit, switchblade. i was all settled in to dislike you for a long time and you're fucking it up.
Great booking. You could make SANADA by having him pin Okada there. Obviously he'd get his win back in the title defence, but a pinfall victory on a high profile event would catapult him. I expect EVIL to pin Goto to set that match up though, which is smart booking.
Any takers on who wins the New Japan Cup? I think I'm leaning Ibushi, as his freelancer status at this time means he won't get the big title matches at a Dominion or obviously Wrestle Kingdom, but him and Okada hasn't happened for the title yet, one of the few defences that hasn't happened during one of Okada's reigns. I can see it being a member of CHAOS too, Ishii maybe. They've not done the in-fight angle yet too my knowledge. Saying that, he'd probably fight Suzuki for the IC belt instead.
I’ve lost any hopes I had for a big Ishii push a while ago. Cody or Ibushi could be interesting. Do they go for Omega or another belt. Too early for Beretta?
Thing is Sanada will be the 10th defense. Presumably the winner of the cup is challenger after that. The record is 11 defenses in one reign by Hiroshi Tanahashi. Ergo you gotta figure Okada vs Tanahashi is coming up. So I'd think he wins the cup.
Been working my way through all the new japan matches I never got around to watching. I've seen a few matches Omega/Okada 1 and Nakamura/Styles and then I watch WK 12. Started my dive today with Okada/Shibata. Holy fuck that was good. Tough knowing the outcome but still, I liked Shibata more than anyone else I've seen so far. Feels like losing him was a real hit to New Japan, glad he's not dead.
I then watched Okada/Omega 2. I'd laughed at the 6 and a quarter star thing but honestly I understand now. The first match was so fucking good and this one felt a hair better. Loved Omega collapsing/ducking the rain maker, also Omega's vtrigger into Okada's back in the corner is one of the most visually stunning strikes I've ever seen. Kenny appears to fucking levitate. Insane.
Was about to start Okada/Omega three but my daughter woke up from her nap so it'll have to wait. Should I watch Okada/Cody from the California show first?
Also I'm open to any other recommendations I'd prefer to watch something with English commentary...or maybe a rundown of a story if need be.
Last edited by Jordo; January 7th, 2018 at 7:17 PM.
Will the Strong Style Evolved show from Long Beach be on NJPW World or AXS?
i don't think that's been announced yet, though i could be wrong.
It does sound like Naito vs. Jericho will happen at Strong Style Evolved. I wonder if they'll do another No DQ match for that one.
Fantasticamania did nothing for me this year. The best thing was probably Volador vs Cavernario and even that was just pretty good.
Best picture winner of 2018 right here
Get Out.
No man that's 2017. And Shape of Water is winning anyway.
Does anyone in that stable have anything in common with anyone else?
Yes. Sho,Yoh and Okada are all ridiculous shiny things.
Are you saying Chaos is chaotic?
I met Ospreay once, Nice dude. Anyway I have no idea who anyone else in the pic is BUT the guy at top left intrigues me
Will Ospreay and RPG3K are Juniors.
Also, Jay White, Yoh & Sho were part of the same Young Lion class.
Tanahashi is featured in the new Music Video for JPop Sister Group Charan Po Rantan.
new japan also opening up an LA dojo. first two camps start in march on the monday before strong style evolved and the monday after it. makes sense to hold them right around the time of the long beach show. curious to see how often they have camps available.
Rey Mysterio challenged Jushin Liger to a match in Long Beach and Liger accepted.
RON VS JUSTIN OH MY GOD I NEEDED THIS
That's pretty cool.
I like the name "Strong Style Evolved" for NJPW's big USA event going forward.
Jeez can't new Japan develop thier own talents and not survive off of wwe 2005?
I get the appeal of Rey/Liger but I hope Rey sticks around and has a match with some other guys. I wasn't all.that impressed with Liger at takeover. I know he was amazing but he seems to be pretty old now. Not that Rey isn't old too but he seems to be in better shape.
I'd love to see a Rey/Omega match
Mysterio/Takahashi would be very interesting
They're always developing talent, maybe better than any company in the world, but there's always room for a special attraction, which is all I think this is, as was Jericho's appearance at WK.Jeez can't new Japan develop thier own talents and not survive off of wwe 2005?
I think you missed the joke.
They tried to bring in Hogan for the Dome and have him join Bullet Club. He wanted $750,000. He was not at the Dome.
I get to see Naito wrestler AR Fox today...super fucking excited. I don't know the rest of the card at all but it should be great
I forgot you were coming to, Jordo! Too bad this intermission is taking for-fucking-ever.
Oh shit I had no idea any other rajah guys were going. Would have totally said hello.
Ya that intermission took foooooorever. That line for the meeting naito was huge.
For the record, Naito is an excellent live performer. He played to the crowd perfectly and never missed an opportunity to do so. The crowd started doing the "oooooOOOOOOH" chant as he was taking off his entrance gear, and he stopped just before the last button of his pants after building it up, then tore it off right after. And AR Fox looked great against him. Props to how he quickly he flipped the heel switch when he realized the crowd was pro-Naito.
I second all of this. Naito was great. Lived up to expectations.
Can't believe I got to see him
How did I miss the fact he was going to be that close to me? Ugh. I wouldn't have been able to go though. Had too much already scheduled but that is not far from here at ll.
Katsuyori Shibata is the head trainer of the LA Dojo
Is he healthy enough to do that? I'd imagine he isn't doing anything physical.
i suspect he really would only need to be about 42% to torture some young lions.
There's a picture of him wearing sparring head guard while having someone in a headlock.
Not to mention that Scorpio Sky will be his assistant coach.
Dem kids gonna be good. Real good.
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