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Thread: The best Final Fantasy

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    The best Final Fantasy

    There has been some talk recently about which one is the best, and it's one of those topics that will always be debated.

    So, which one is the best/your favorite?

    For me, it's VII. I don't even have to think about it. Love the way everything is set up, the designs, the characters, the wacky story.. all of it. It's one of those games that I could just play forever.

    Your turn.

    (get it? because they're turn based!)

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    Isaiah 40:30-31 Hero!'s Avatar
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    The only one of these that I've played is tactics. I loved it, but it took too god damned long to beat the game. I just quit playing at some point.

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    MASHY SPIKE PLATE Excel's Avatar
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    VII all the way.

    truly monumental epic story. Other than one or two, the most filled out characters. Great pacing, fantastic reveals, brilliant fights, worthwhile sidequests, enough freedom while still linear enough so that you dont really get stuck.

    and there was always something I loved about playing as a small group of freedom fighters taking on an evil corporation government only to get swallowed into this much bigger mess. That reveal when Shinra is killed and Cloud says that "This is a true danger to the planet" and you realise, "oh fuck, this shit just got serious" is great.

    Not only that, but I think as my first FF game, i wasn't expecting the world map. So when I finally left midgar and realised "Oh shit, man that was all just one small part of this game!!" and realised how massive and epid it was, that was a good good moment for me.

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    tactics

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    I well and truly think it was VIII.

    The first game of its kind to have realistic (for the day) character models, and a love story that actually felt like a love story and not just some shit tacked on when it was convenient.

    Then there was the Junction system which allowed for a level of customization that Final Fantasy had never really tried before, and never got right again, allowing you to customize every single stat of your character however you wanted, but forcing you to prioritize certain stats and magic types early on to keep things competitive.

    Then you have the stable of characters who all had a realistic reason for being there, a story which was incredible deep and thorough and had twists that still surprise me, and some of the most perfectly done cinematics in gaming history, and you have yourself a fucking gem. That's not even mentioning the battle system which let you fight in about 800 different ways and the tactics that were entirely changeable based of skills acquired instead of restricting jobs or classes, and a World that actually felt full to the brim with stuff to do and find.

    So fuck yeah I thought VIII was the best. It's my favorite game of all time, and if it weren't for Star Ocean 2 it would be my pick for best game of all time as well.

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    the best one is VII. sold the PS1, best storyline, best music, most original and memorable setting of any game in any genre.

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    I will seriously dispute the best music bit.

    As Uematsu got better technology to work with, his music really kept getting better and better until he left Square.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vice View Post
    There has been some talk recently about which one is the best, and it's one of those topics that will always be debated.


    So, which one is the best/your favorite?


    For me, it's VII. I don't even have to think about it. Love the way everything is set up, the designs, the characters, the wacky story.. all of it. It's one of those games that I could just play forever.


    Your turn.


    (get it? because they're turn based!)
    Agreed .. VII is a masterpiece. I quite like VIII a lot, but VII is the one for me. I have a special place for the original on NES as well.. but definitely VII all the way.

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    the Omniscient Grimario's Avatar
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    I've only ever really played VII to any great length... though I did spend about a bajillion hours playing Blitz Ball on my housemates save game for.. X?

    Have there been any proper awful FF games though? I don't think I have played a proper stinker though haven't had a relevant console since X.

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    12 is legitimately not fun to play, X-2 is meaningless for the most part and all of them before V are varying degrees of dated to the point of irrelevance.

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    Like Cewsh I think there is a lot to be said for VIII. Trying to get every card on Triple Triad turned from a mere pass of time to a complete obsession. There were so many fantastic battles in that one too, such as Adel and Edea scuffles, and Ultimecia was a fantastic end boss.

    VII is simply untouchable, however.

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    the Omniscient Grimario's Avatar
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    What are the various mini games in each FF game?

    I know of Blitz Ball (which I think was X without being certain)... and I have vague recollections of some card game as well. What else was there?

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    VII = Chocobo Breeding
    VIII = Triple Triad (card game)
    IX = Another card game.
    X = Blitzball

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    Final Fantasy 6 was definitely my favorite followed very closely by Final Fantasy Tactics. 7 was a good game but it is over-rated as it is generally considered the best FF. I'm sorry but it's not.

    Speaking of FFT I reeeeeally wish they would make another one in the same vein as the first. The GBA and DS versions are shit in comparison and nothing at all like the game I loved for so many years.

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    You're probably going to have to supply some betters reasons than "I'm sorry it's not."

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    usa
    That's fine, sorry for my laziness.

    Like I said, 7 was a good game. It just pains me how much 6 tends to be overlooked (has anyone so far even mentioned it besides me?). I couldn't tell you how many times I've played FF6 from beginning to end. The story was just incredible and they did an amazing job getting you genuinely invested in each one of the (14 I think?) playable characters. Not to mention the fact that FF6 had the most despicable antagonist in Kefka than any game I can think of. Finally getting your hands on him at the end was great.

    Again I'm not trying to pass 7 off as a dud because it certainly wasn't. But I think a huge bit of it's appeal was the fact that it was the first 3-D "new gen" Final Fantasy and 6 got the short end of the stick being on a soon-to-be-obsolete system. I've played both games and 6 was hands down more enjoyable and memorable to me.
    Last edited by Mark Hammer; August 2nd, 2010 at 10:36 PM.

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    My biggest problem with VI was definitely just how balls out unfairly hard it got out of nowhere all the time.

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    usa
    I never had that problem although I did spend plenty of time leveling up.

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    But every fucking enemy could, and would, eviscerate you in any battle.

    It just got tiring.

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    With all due respect to you Cewsh it sounds like you just sucked at it. There were hard parts but I never had a huge problem with the enemies.

    You're not referring to the Phantom Train are you?

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    The train sucked, but I was doing fine until that fucking place in the clouds where you CAN'T FUCKING LEAVE AND ALL THE ENEMIES ARE SUDDENLY WAY HARDER.

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    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    You're probably going to have to supply some betters reasons than "I'm sorry it's not."
    Well he also had "it's over-rated". Case closed, I'd say.

    I would say VII in a heartbeat, but VIII keeps tugging on my trousers, reminding me of its existence and I have trouble being so definite about it. VII is my favourite of the series, no doubt about that, but that doesn't make it the best. It is wrapped in the nostalgia of being the first RPG I played properly on my own, at a time in my life when I still had enough imagination to get lost in the magical world and really feel part of the fight against Shin-Ra, and as my first ride its surprises can never be replicated. Like Excel said, I started the game thinking I was fighting against a greedy corporation in the slums of one city, then holy shit I've got the entire planet to save and an epic adventure laid out before me. It really is a game I love, and to just sit in the Sector 7 church and hear that MIDI music brings the feel of the game rushing back.

    However, there's a lot to be said for VIII. The characters probably were a bit more rounded - I loved VII's, but they were a bit archetypal, as if they were skeletons that VIII's character design turned to flesh. Squall's feelings for Rinoa seemed to develop organically, rather than him loving her because they're the two lead characters and that's what happens. The school feels like a proper community, and working for SeeD gives the early part of the game a good structure and focus. I wish there had been more SeeD missions to take part in, really.

    One thing I didn't like about VIII though was the idea that they were all friends from an orphanage and then ended up forgetting about it. It was a plot point that just didn't seem to quite turn out right. Maybe something got lost in translation but to me it never seemed to quite fit.

    IV and V were fun but I only played them once and they were a bit dated, though enjoyable stories. VI is pretty awesome but limited in terms of what you can do (and rather hard to be accessible to non-hardcore RPGers). IX I really liked, but it is kind of derivative, just some good fun. X I enjoyed as a story, but it didn't quite reach the heights of VII and VIII. XII failed as a story but made grinding tolerable, then XIII was a decent tale (even if I have forgotten most of it already) but that story seemed to be painted over an empty shell. Anyway, while I love VII, I can see an argument for VIII being seen as genuinely better. I'd need to think on it some more, but that's my thoughts on the games I've played.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    The train sucked, but I was doing fine until that fucking place in the clouds where you CAN'T FUCKING LEAVE AND ALL THE ENEMIES ARE SUDDENLY WAY HARDER.
    The floating island. Very tough spot although there are two places where you can return to your airship if you need to.

    As obvious as it seems the key is to level up the shit out of the three characters you're taking to fight alongside Shadow (who will suck as up to that point he's hardly ever in your party). The Esper level up bonuses are very important to look at too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimario View Post
    Have there been any proper awful FF games though? I don't think I have played a proper stinker though haven't had a relevant console since X.
    Final Fantasy X is the shit one for me.

    the worst about that game is due to the fact since it came out in 2001 and was the first big Sqauresoft game on the PS2, the game has alot of people who are about 21ish now saying it's the best one in the series, because it's the first they played.

    didn't enjoy 12 either. but it came out at a time i wasn't really playing games so i only really played it for 15 hours and didn't give it a chance. i played right X up until the end boss so i feel justified in saying it is very shit.

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    case in point


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    Final Fantasy 6 is the 2nd best one imo. it's like VII on a smaller scale. complex serious story, big music themes. epic quest. just in 16 bit graphics. if you play it now and also Chrono Trigger you can see Square were just about to peak and do something very special with the next game (FF7).

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    So I read some dreadful news recently that the FF6 DS remake is now non-existant, due to "hardware issues" (bullshit). They're pitching it for the 3DS which irritates me as now I have to buy one of those if I want to play it.

    Easily one of the top 10 games of all time, Final Fantasy 6.

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    i've still got it on FF Anthology import and about a year ago i picked it up on the Snes from a seller in New York like. because the load times are bad on the PS1 version inbetween battles, and the game is a grind fest so that got annoying iirc. should really get round to replaying it this year and also Chrono Trigger as the Battery backup in some of my snes games is starting to fail.

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    the Omniscient Grimario's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus sucks View Post
    Final Fantasy X is the shit one for me.

    the worst about that game is due to the fact since it came out in 2001 and was the first big Sqauresoft game on the PS2, the game has alot of people who are about 21ish now saying it's the best one in the series, because it's the first they played.

    didn't enjoy 12 either. but it came out at a time i wasn't really playing games so i only really played it for 15 hours and didn't give it a chance. i played right X up until the end boss so i feel justified in saying it is very shit.
    But... BLITZ BALL?!?!

    I loved that, probably too much

    Never really played the actual game though, so can't comment much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mike View Post

    One thing I didn't like about VIII though was the idea that they were all friends from an orphanage and then ended up forgetting about it. It was a plot point that just didn't seem to quite turn out right. Maybe something got lost in translation but to me it never seemed to quite fit.
    i remember that being the part that ruined the game for everyone at the time. including myself. i love FF8, it came out during my final year of school and loads of us bought it and talked about what part we were up to each lunchtime. so good memories. and i think the Laguna Loire flashback storyline is as good as anything in 7. possibly better. as a whole game though i don't think it's anywhere near as good as 7. FFVII is underrated now if anything. a couple of years ago it became cool to say it was overrated and that [insert game] is better. before that it usually topped every best game reader poll i saw for an entire decade, only other game as highly rated was Zelda oot.
    Last edited by jesus sucks; August 3rd, 2010 at 12:12 AM.

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    Final Fantasy VI is hands down the best. It's got the most epic story, lots of good twists and an entire cast of heros that are easy to fall in love with and magically not all of them are actually required. Things like waiting for Shadow at the end of the world and slowly regathering your friends, half of which don't really want to bother anymore. It's simply amazing.

    Final Fantasy VII is a GREAT game but most people who love it love it for the same reason a generation of gamers swear by Golden Eye (don't go play it again, just be happy of your fond memories) or will scream about how Halo is teh greatest thing EVAH!!!! It's quite simply because that was the game most of them broke their cherry. Now there is something to be said for a game popping that many cheries, you don't do that by sucking it's just the game isn't the godsend. And it will ALWAYS poll higher, that doesn't make it better, it makes it more popular. Marvel vs Capcom 2 is plagued by balance issues etc etc (But it sure is fun. So fun we kept screaming to get it back)

    I'm kinda shocked at the love of VIII here. Most gamers I knwo treat that game like the black sheep. I don't want my FF THAT real. I want Chocobos and floating castles.

    12 isn't a bad game, the problem is it's NOT Final Fantasy. They made something new and exiting and instead of trusting it to stand on it's own they slapped the FF label on it. (Something Square used to have a REALLY bad habit of but they've gotten better. Final Fantasy Legends/Mystic quest anybody?)

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    I really enjoyed breeding chocobos in VII. Yeah it took a lot more effort than it should have, and racing the shit out of them over and over again was tedious, but I always got great joy out of the babies being born. If they were of the proper color and gender of course, because if they weren't perfect, I'd reset and load it up again because I'm racist and sexist like that.

    Then when it was finally over and the gold chocobo was born, it was just.. delightful.

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    Can i say all of VI, VII, VIII and Chrono Trigger?

    VI had argueably the best game play of them all with the most varied battle characters, the fact of the best twist mid game where you find out the read 'big bad' and effectively the hero's lose. Heart breaking

    VII as many have said had the most epic story, genuine emotion, outstanding characters and it was perfectly tied round the epic plotline.

    VIII does much of the same but takes it to greater depths and in an even more epic story. Among the greatest ever endings to a FF game.

    Chrono Trigger is spiritually a Final Fantasy and is the most inventive game of the lot. Epic story, brilliant use of time travel.

    Not the best one, but a shout out to FF IV. That set the template for all future FF games. Adding in character's to care about, tragic events and twists leading to a even more epic adventure. Underrated.

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    I'd probably give you a different answer to this question, depending on when you asked me. I used to think FF6 was my favourite but I think I've settled with FF10.
    FF6 was my first which I played on the SNES, and I went on to play all the rest whilst playing the previous ones in between.
    I never quite got the hype of FF7. I think the only explanation I can give is that it came out at a pivotal moment in gaming history, with the era being (atleast what I consider) the biggest step forward with everything moving to 3D, piracy becoming a lot more common, and for most of people I speak to, this generation was when they were first introduced to gaming. So more people would have had FF7 as their first Final Fantasy.
    IMO its hard to judge a Final Fantasy properly unless you played the game at its time, and not went back to play it.
    But yeah, I think Doct1400 explained this better than I did.

    As for the reason why I didnt like FF7, I thought the game didnt really have much going for it other than its story. And even that is overrated. I mean, first of all the game didnt really have a good technique learning system. FF5 was great with the job system. FF6's Espers were great. Even FF9 where you had to equip weapons to learn off them was fun. But the Materia system was garbage IMO. In every other FF game, the system was addictive enough to the point where I'd want to power level up just to build up the magics that I've learnt. FF7 didnt have me doing that. Another problem I had was how in FF6, every character had their own unique ability (Sabin with Blitz, Locke with Steal, etc), even in FF9 and FF10 they had their own abilities. But in FF7, every character was potentially the same. It's things like these that ruined the experience for me cuz I dunno about you guys but most of my time in RPG's are spent doing battles and leveling up, and it just wasnt fun for me.

  35. #35
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    I'm torn between 7 and 8...

    7 was the first RPG I had ever played. I'd just moved away from where I grew up to live in Norwich, and I was caining the PS1 hard. I had the morning off before college so went to trade in some games at GAME... I couldn't find anything I liked the look of but they had the platinum version of FVII there and with my trade-ins it was free, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

    I took it home and was a bit bewildered. The random battle thing was a bit weird for me but for some reason I was hooked straight away. I died a heck of a lot but kept playing and playing... I didn't go into college that day and just kept playing. I sunk about 60 hours into in total I think. I'd never played a game with a rich storyline before, or a game where you give a shit about the characters... and I did give a shit about them. When Aeris died I was proper shocked. I too thought it would just be about Midgar, but then when I go onto the world map I was like 'holy shit, this game is serious'.

    BUT...

    VIII was an incredible gaming experience for me too. The love story (yeah I know this is going to sound GAY) was genuinely touching. The cinematics were epic... that bit where Rinoa is floating in space and you jump out to resuce here was tremendous. And I genuinely wanted to fuck the stuffing out of her. My love for ladies of the asian persuation stems from her. I was totally sucked into the story... and yeah it was a bit lame that they were all from the same orphanage.

    Anyway, I can't really remember... but isn't it left ambiguous about Laguana beind Squall's father or something?

    Anyway, both are incredible, VII is probably the better game, but I think VIII means more to me.

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    It isnt really spelled out but if you add it up, Squall is the son of Laguna and Ellone's mom, the one she died while giving birth to while Laguna was on his adventure.

    That's why they did the bit with Julia, who was Rinoa's mom. Two generations of star crossed lovers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus sucks View Post
    Final Fantasy X is the shit one for me.

    the worst about that game is due to the fact since it came out in 2001 and was the first big Sqauresoft game on the PS2, the game has alot of people who are about 21ish now saying it's the best one in the series, because it's the first they played.
    Ahaha this is exactly the position I'm in. I loved Final Fantasy X, I'm 21 and it's the first one I played. I haven't played the earlier ones though so I'm not going to say outright it's the best one.

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    It makes sense, though.

    Compared to the ones X and on, everything VIII and early looks like dogshit now.

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    Since we're on that topic it's worth noting that FF6 was my first, although I don't feel that is why it's my favorite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doct1400 View Post
    Final Fantasy VII is a GREAT game but most people who love it love it for the same reason a generation of gamers swear by Golden Eye (don't go play it again, just be happy of your fond memories) or will scream about how Halo is teh greatest thing EVAH!!!! It's quite simply because that was the game most of them broke their cherry. Now there is something to be said for a game popping that many cheries, you don't do that by sucking it's just the game isn't the godsend. And it will ALWAYS poll higher, that doesn't make it better, it makes it more popular.
    By contrast, something being very popular does not preclude it from being the best.

    I'm kinda shocked at the love of VIII here. Most gamers I knwo treat that game like the black sheep. I don't want my FF THAT real. I want Chocobos and floating castles.
    FFVIII had Chocobos, floating schools, and a giant floating castle at the end of time. I have heard this argument a lot from people who dislike it, but I really don't see where they are coming from, because the game was still very fantastical, it just wasn't medieval or steampunk.

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    It was a bit steampunky though.

    And it was full of magic, summons, sorceressess and mythical creatures...

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    World Champion The Doc's Avatar
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    True. Something can be fantastically populare, Mario 64 comes to mind, and still be damn good if not the best.

    FF VIII just felt inheritly wrong to me and a lot of gamers. Just like XII felt/feels just off. And I enjoy XII (VIII I think it might be time to go back and give it another shot at least) but I enjoy XII, even if I didn't beat it and got caught up in a choke point and haven't touched in months.

    I haven't tried XIII yet (haven't had cash to spare) is it excellent and more importantly does it FEEL right?

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    I really liked both 7 and 8. 7 was the first game of a truly epic scale I ever plaid. My parents didn't allow video games in the house, so my first console was a ps1. 7 was the first game I bought, along with Tekken. If only for that reason, 7 will be one of the greatest games I ever played on ps1, along with Metal Gear Solid.

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    Anyone who hasn't played 6 is REALLY missing out. Ok I'll shut up about it now.

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    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    This is a thread I'd love to see polled, but there's a lot more than 10 options. I guess if the options were more selective and left out the likes of 2-5 (which really won't get any votes anyway), Final Fantasy US, the sequels/prequels to 7 and the MMO, it could work.

    My personal favorites are 7, 6 and Tactics. Out of the bunch, 7 would probably get my vote, but I think 6 is the most flawless and probably best overall game. The graphics aren't anywhere near as good in 6, but the simplicity of it allows it to run smother and it works off what it has perfectly. 7 really changed the direction of gaming. One of the earlier major console games to be fmv heavy, it really helped define not only the series but gaming in general.

    Tactics was totally different than anything in the series and for that I love it. It's been far too long since I played it, but I remember loving it and getting a kick out of the fact that any character could die. First time through I lost one of the characters needed to get Cloud without realizing it. After looking up how to get him, I did a second run through just to do that.


    One that I haven't seen mention of here is 9. I'd rank that well above 8, 10, 10-2, 12, 13 and so forth. Always fond it the underrated game because it went for a throwback in character design rather than realism. Kind of like how a lot of people underrate/skipped over Wind Waker based on the style of the game rather than trying it.

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    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alf View Post
    It was a bit steampunky though.
    I wouldn't say so - steampunk tech would look kind of old world but be capable of fancy or magical things (i.e. like a steam-powered airship) but VIII's technology seemed very advanced and rooted in more futuristic stuff like electronics, missiles, jet aircraft and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by doct1400 View Post
    I haven't tried XIII yet (haven't had cash to spare) is it excellent and more importantly does it FEEL right?
    If you thought VIII didn't feel right, I can't imagine you liking XIII very much. It is very, very futuristic. A lot of the settings are like Coruscant from the new Star Wars films, and it's full of guns and power armour and that sort of thing. There is a tiny Chocobo, though.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mike View Post
    I wouldn't say so - steampunk tech would look kind of old world but be capable of fancy or magical things (i.e. like a steam-powered airship) but VIII's technology seemed very advanced and rooted in more futuristic stuff like electronics, missiles, jet aircraft and so on.

    Yeah, it's all modern looking but I think at the same time it's quite steampunky. Well, at least as steampunky as FFVII.

    Their clothing. Their weapons. Balamb Garden's outside design is steampunky crossed with modern.

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    I don't think I could disagree more. Clearly we have different definitions of steampunk.

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    My issue with IX is just how absolutely miserable and confusing the last act was. You play this great, witty old school adventure for 40 hours, and then they just totally change the rules and the tone on you 100%.

    It just makes it hard to even want to play the last disc.

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    My mates say VII is the best and I've tried to get into it so many times but just cannot hack turn based fighting. Might as well get the 12 sided dice out.

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    I'm playing VII again right now and it still gets my vote as the best. I agree with everything Alf said about VIII (other than it being steampunk-ish), but that moment in VII where you're all standing to leave Midgar and the somber version of the world map music is playing, then you arrive on the world map and the full version hits clinches it for me.

    Jesus, that still breaks my heart. That world seemed so endless when I first played it.

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    Glad to see so many of you agree with the scope of 7 once you leave midgar. It really was a huge moment for me, like the game had now kicked it into high gear.

    the only problems I have with 7 are the now dated gameplay, but that still holds up fairly well, and the ending which i thought for a game of its scale was a bit too short and disappointing.

    Although I prefer 8's gameplay, even with the Draw system, I just cant see the characters as particularly interesting. I never grew to love them like I did Cloud, Tifa, Barrett and Aeris. i also found that the whole Orphanage thing to be a really cheap way of tying everyone together. It felt too simple. Like "Well many of the characters in 7's lives were ins ome way intertwined, we have to do the same with 8. Lets just say they all gre up together but forgot about it". It was weak man.

    In 7 the relationships are complex. Cloud and Tifa knew each other as kids until Cloud left town to join Soldier, and although Cloud always thought of her as his childhood friend, in reality it turns out they were never really that close, and his perception of their relationship was skewed by time (and Mako). Cloud took on the life of Zack without realising it, and Zack was in a relationship with Aeris before he was captured. Aeris and Cloud feel an attraction, which turns out to be because Cloud has become Zack. Once this is realised Cloud realises his feelings for Aeris arent what he thought they were but in a way they are even more powerful. Tifa and cloud develop a true affection for each other, and Tifa cares despite how fucked up Cloud is. She sees through all that. Barrett met Tifa in the slums and became friends and Barrett has as much reson to hate Shinra as she does, so they get on well.

    Theres much more to it than all of this, but its easy to see how much more entangled and complex and interesting all the relationships are than "They were all orphaned together and Irvine wants to pole Selphie up the bum".

  53. #53
    The 'me' in 'team' Dreyski's Avatar
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    I've only played XII and X-2, so Cewsh is going to hate me

    For me, 12 takes a lot of the RPG element out of it by eliminating random encounters (which are a major pain in the arse IMO). Add to that fully rotatable viewpoints, so no dodgy camera angles, and beautiful graphics and music, the gambit system, the license board.
    It's not perfect (I'd prefer Basch to be the main character rather than Vaan, and to complete the pirate's den requires an obscene amount of luck), but I wouldn't spend around 250 hours of my life with an absolute dog of a game.

    X-2 again requires luck to do well in. I consulted on-line guides too late in the storyline and ended up missing out on several dresspheres and side missions . I may have to start again, but don't know if I can be arsed with all the gay cutscenes which you need to watch for the 100% completion.

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    No biggie but the thread should probably be "Your Favorite Final Fantasy" as opposed to the best as it seems there are a handful who haven't even played the actual best one.

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    The 'me' in 'team' Dreyski's Avatar
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    I don't mean to hold this against the game, but the relationships in FFVII aren't nearly that complex actually within the game.

    The relationship between Cloud and Tifa is just plain empty throughout the entire game, and lacks any definition whatsoever that you don't apply yourself after the fact. Cloud has his stuff going on, but whther or not he and Tifa, or frankly even he and Aeris are romantic is seriously never explained. Frankly he never pays an ounce of special attention to Aeris between Midgar and her death, which muddles things a lot, and then he seems to just put up with Tifa's puzzling obsession over him.

    Most of the characters are similarly one dimensional. It fits the tone of the game, but I find it hard to accept an argument that VII's STORY DEPTH is what it has over everyone else.
    Last edited by Cewsh; August 3rd, 2010 at 6:14 PM.

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    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Cloud's a paedo who nailed Jailbait.

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    thing is Cewish you say that and then list your favourite one as VIII. that game had 4 or 5 totally peripheral characters (quistis, zell, irvine etc) an end boss that you didn't know anything about until 2 hours before the end of the game, a dues ex-machina orphanage plot twist that renders the first half of the game pointless, and a love story where both characters can't stand eachother for the first couple of discs, then rinoa falls ill and suddenly squall falls in love with her, she wakes up and is in love with him too.

    the characters were the worst thing about VIII. stupidly epic, great set pieces, great art style, great music. but to criticise VII's characters (brilliant, memorable by absolutely everyone whether they've played the game or not) ... then say VIII is your favourite is bizarre.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by atnumbers View Post
    Cloud's a paedo who nailed Jailbait.
    It's a shame things didn't work out with LOL pwned.

    --

    Squall irritated me a lot throughout VIII, mainly because half of his lines of dialog was simply "....", which I found extremely annoying.

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    MASHY SPIKE PLATE Excel's Avatar
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    "...whatever"

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus sucks View Post
    thing is Cewish you say that and then list your favourite one as VIII. that game had 4 or 5 totally peripheral characters (quistis, zell, irvine etc) an end boss that you didn't know anything about until 2 hours before the end of the game, a dues ex-machina orphanage plot twist that renders the first half of the game pointless, and a love story where both characters can't stand eachother for the first couple of discs, then rinoa falls ill and suddenly squall falls in love with her, she wakes up and is in love with him too.

    the characters were the worst thing about VIII. stupidly epic, great set pieces, great art style, great music. but to criticise VII's characters (brilliant, memorable by absolutely everyone whether they've played the game or not) ... then say VIII is your favourite is bizarre.
    It isn't bizarre at all.

    Squall was a teenager dealing with serious emotional trauma in his past and the story is about him opening up to his friends and the woman he loves. Rinoa was a runaway not used to serious commitment, and it's also about her letting someone save her for once. Quistis was a teacher who thought she loved Squall and tried to deal with the feeling she had for him by putting up a stern front. Selphie and Zell are there mostly for comic relief, but Selphie has a relationship develop with Irvine in an organic and innocent (on her part) way, and Zell doesn't have some crazy backstory trying to make him more than he is. He's just a hyper guy who gets caught up in everything and is one of the first people Squall lets get to know him. Not to mention Irvine's whole badass persona that they emotionally broke apart with the sniping thing and the tortured destiny of Cid and Edea.

    They aren't two dimensional people with a wacky backstory and then no continuing character development. They're actual people who react to each other like people might. And the craziest thing is that none of those things I said are things you have to agonize over extrapolating from the game after you finish it. It's written in all over the place as part of their world.

    The end boss came on later because the crisis came on later, and it made perfect sense because things progressed one after another leading to that point. I've never really understood why in the hell you have to see the villain from the get go for them to work as the boss. The bitch was possessing people from the get go and working behind the scenes.

    The orphanage wasn't the strongest plot device, though I really didn't mind it, and I wont defend it for being more than what it is, a way to tie the story together and give an emotional reason to continue on the way they were going. It kept everyone involved in the plot, though, whereas games like VII, IX, and X seemed to forget half the characters were even still there towards the end and gave everyone a reason to be important and I really do like that.

    The fact is that it was a game that I, and many others, actually felt something emotional from, which means that the people in there were real enough to relate to. And while I think VII was a lot of fun, I can't imagine in a million years feeling that way about it. So no, it's not bizarre that it's my favorite.

    Honestly, I think it's bizarre it isn't more people's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vice View Post
    It's a shame things didn't work out with LOL pwned.

    --

    Squall irritated me a lot throughout VIII, mainly because half of his lines of dialog was simply "....", which I found extremely annoying.
    As opposed to "_____"?

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    ...

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    I got bored with Final Fantasy VIII; I quit right after beating the train mission...
    I just didn't care about any of it...

    More power to those who enjoyed it...

  65. #65
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    Which game had the blue animal looking thing whose name started with K (I think)? As you can tell, I haven't played many of the games (and certainly nothing for 8+ years) but I have vague recollections of that game being my favourite (apart from the 300 hours in blitz ball )

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    That's Final Fantasy 10...
    Kimahri...

  67. #67
    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Cewsh is putting up a really solid defence of VIII here. It's actually starting to win me over, because I do have very fond memories of the game as well, and I felt a real emotional connection with the story. To say the characters were the worst thing about the game seems an enormous stretch to me. The Final Fantasy moment I probably remember most after Aeris' death is Irvine utterly collapsing when trying to assassinate Edea. That really tugged at the heartstrings.

    I still really love VII's characters, though. I think the Cloud/Tifa/Aeris relationship is genuinely interesting and well crafted, and I cared for the backstories of Barrett, Cid, Vincent and Red XIII as well. Yuffie kind of annoyed me and seemed superfluous but she wasn't a necessary character anyway. Cait Sith, I have to admit, seemed a bit two dimensional, but overall I don't think it's fair to say the story (rich in symbolism, moral ambiguity and plot twists) or the characters (generally complex individuals with clear motives drawing them together) were lacking in depth.

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    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    i havent played VIII in, um, i think 7 years but i really loved it. by memory one thing to its favor what that i felt squall worked better than most ff characters as just some guy who unwittingly got caught up in some crazy adventure. had a lot of charm to it and a unique feel. i'd love to play it again if i ever had time.

    still ff7 is my pick. in terms of setting and mood i think it's a legitimately impressive work of art.

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    i never really find myself agreeing with any of the criticisms of 7 tbh. to me it's just a flawless computer game. i've replayed the majority of it over the last year since it came out on PSN, and i still can't find anything wrong with it. sometimes it seems even better than when it was a new game.

    only thing wrong with it was the pal conversion which is horrible. any british posters get a us account and download it from america to experience the game properly.

  70. #70
    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    I am intrigued - what's so bad about the PAL conversion and how would I go about getting a US account on the Playstation Network?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mike View Post
    I am intrigued - what's so bad about the PAL conversion and how would I go about getting a US account on the Playstation Network?
    20% slower, letterboxed squashed gameplay with massive borders at the top and bottom of the screen. as with all squares PAL releases, a bag of monkey crap.

    to get an american account you create a new account on the US playstation website, using an american address. any real address with zipcode will do. then you buy your codes from one of the websites that sells PSN codes and emails it out. you use the code to credit your account, download the game to that account, and then you can play the game on any account on that PS3 console. much easier than back in the day when you had to pay someone on ebay 50 quid to sell you a 2nd hand copy and hope it arrives from The States.

  72. #72
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    Cewish really is putting on a solid defense of VIII. Enough that I might have to find a friend who can still find their copy and dig it out and see if I remember it poorly for other reasons. I also remember it being SUPER easy, like I tore through the game until Ultimacia (or whatever her name was) took away my toys and since I couldn't find my best toy again (and was REALY dependant on it) got frustrated, but still. I'm willing to give it another shot. Sides I practically play games all day. And it's been too long since I've done a FF all together run.

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    VIII is good .. I liked it a lot more a couple years later. I think some people (myself included) were turned off by it at first, but mainly because it wasn't VII .. that's my problem with all the post-VII games .. they're not VII.

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    I wonder if a lot of people were disappointed with VIII because they weren't so familiar with the series and were expecting a sequel of sorts to VII. With VIII being radically different in story, characters and tone, I can see why it would be a surprise.

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    Only Vice would come up with a poll for this

    Definitely VII story wise and the replay value.

    VIII - I kinda hated the draw system. Card game kicked ass.

    IX - was kinda close w/ VII as the MP was brought back and went back to having 4-member parties.

    X - voice acting albeit lackluster but the story was ok....Blitzball =

    XI - Didn't care about it.

    X-2 - Square's verison of Charlie's Angels.

    XII - I actually finally starting playing this game, loving the hunt challenges.

    XIII - Got my first trophy then quit until I get a walkthrough.

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    First let me just say this is not an indictment on FFVII; its my second favorite Final Fantasy. That said I do think Doct is spot on in the golden eye comparison. It gets graded higher than it probably should based on the revolutionary factor of it, the cultural icon it became, and what it represents more than what it is. I felt the story for VII while good was a bit more convoluted then was really necessary, and was not helped by the translation often. The characters ranged from great to completely “meh”, with me having little actual care for the majority of them outside of Cloud, Tifa, and Barrett (of the ones that actually stay the whole time). The rest, be it due to rarely playing them or just not finding them interesting, were average to meaningless to me. Vincent was much like Magus from Chrono Trigger, only without the buildup Magus had. A guy you get, is cool, and you put in the party, but feels like he’s more tacted on than anything else. The game was expansive but at times also seemed almost too daunting due to its sheer magnitude. All that said, this is like saying that a USDA top of the line black angus steak is a little too pink. It’s still an amazing tasting piece of meat that far surpasses most of what you’re going to have out there, but if you’re talking greatness you get a bit more nitpicky. Final Fantasy 7 was a great game.

    Now, having said that…

    I put it behind VI for my own views. VI is by far my favorite Final Fantasy and the one I’ve replayed the most.

    There’s so much about the game that I just absolutely loved and you can’t really start anywhere else with VI other than with the characters. The cast was absolutely amazing. While rather archetypal in many ways, you can actually look back and see that when it comes to RPG’s this game in many ways helped formulate those arch types, especially with regards to RPG’s hitting the American shores. Down the line of characters its difficult for me to find one that I did not enjoy or find interesting in some way. Even the slightly more shallow ones, such as Mog, had qualities…even if it was simply novelty, it was novelty that actually worked…that made them interesting.

    Relationship wise it gave you a lot to go off of. Locke’s protective nature towards the females, and the growing affection between him and Celes leading to one of the most artistic and possibly greatest scenes in the SNES’s history. You have the intriguing family ties of Realm, Strago, and Shadow, major portions of which came through Shadow’s dream sequences which themselves were a rather unique thing and something that enhanced the enjoyment of the game. Edgar and Sabin’s brotherly interactions, highlighting so perfectly from early on their personality types and what they’d be willing to do for the other. Cyan’s seeming emotional adoption of Gau after the loss of his family, not to mention his completely non-player character interaction with Lola that added greatly to his character.

    Which, again, highlights another thing they did very well in 3 was give almost all the characters some sort of change or growth throughout the storyline. Terra’s loss of spirit and grasping onto normality through adoptive motherhood, only to find a new purpose to actually fight. Locke’s growing ability to move past his former love to realize what’s before him. Celes striking out from the empire and realization of a non-military life, not to mention the excellent World of Ruin beginning with Cid which amazingly for a Nintendo game includes the possibility of a near suicide attempt. Edgar and Sabin could arguably be said to have little character growth, though I also think they had some of the strongest characters early on and most of their growth occurring then. The initial deception of Setzer followed by the realization brought upon him later on of being more than simply a opportunistic selfish scoundrel. And on and on…

    I think the large part of why its so easy to enjoy the characters and have attachments of sorts to all is because of how often you’re using them. Its beneficial to the player to switch the party around, and with 5 people in a group its not too difficult to do. You’re placed in so many situations where you have to use people other than who your “mains” are…be it in group fights like the caves under Narshe or the floating isle, separation story arcs such as Gau/Cyan/Sabin, or the entire situation with the World of Ruin where you’re rebuilding your party…that it gets you insight into them you may not have. By doing this not only do you end up seeing story elements of them that drag you in, but you have to learn how to utilize their abilities allowing you to actually begin to appreciate the vast amount of various mechanics go into the game to make each character unique. Slots for Setzer, the different type of magic for Strago, Lockes thieving ability, Celes’s runic absorbtion, Sabin’s street fighter-esque button attacks, etc. They all gave great flavor to the characters.

    Which, with all the references to the world of ruin it’d be impossible not to talk about that. It essentially gave us two games in one, package and up until X-2 is the closest to a real final fantasy sequel type scenario you got. Starting as someone OTHER than Terra and attaining group members in a different order gave you interaction and focus on other characters that you may not have used as much before. Meanwhile the events that occurred actually affected every character in some way, making it interesting to find them all and see how it affected each. Not to mention just the basic notion that the bad guy WON…even if it was for a limited time, it was an actual substantial “victory”.

    Kefka basically won the first game. And, contrary to what I would’ve imagined if you told me that before, while I was upset that you end up failing to defeat him that first time I was not upset in way that went “Oh bullshit.” It was more disappointment, akin to watching say your football team lose a playoff game…upset, but not doubting its legitimacy. The double cross by Kefka and the placement of him as a truly sinister villain and actually devious mastermind, when the entire early part of he seems almost laughable, was masterfully done. Done so well in fact that rather than going “That makes no sense” due to the seeming absurdity of Kefka early in the game you instead go “you know it kind of makes sense”. It solidified him as easily one of the top villains in any RPG if not video games in general and I’d dare say I enjoy him as a VILLIAN more than Sephiroth, who I personally think gets overrated a bit simply because he’s a “COOL” villain.

    Since it’s a wrestling board, the way I could describe it is that Seph would be like the most recent heel Orton or early Heel Stone Cold, who yeah is a bad guy but he’s just so god damn cool that you can’t not cheer for him. Whereas I would see Kefka as more of a heel HHH or Jeff Jarrett (not that Jarretts on the level of any of them). Guys you could argue were better pure “HEELS” because by god they made people HATE them, that even if you respected what they did as a heel you never wanted to CHEER for those guys even if you were a smark.

    The story is good I think, perhaps not as epic as VII but at the same time less convoluted, making them roughly equal in regards to my over all enjoyment of the main storyline. The build up from simply an evil emperor to an attempt to rule to an attempt to essentially become god was a nice progression from localized to entire realm altering.

    The addition of relics and espers were a welcomed bit of personalization after Final Fantasy II, the music was very well done, the opera scene was amazing, ultros provided one of the better comedy villains on the SNES, every character had unique and interesting abilities, story and character development were top notch.

    I just like the game from top to bottom, beginning to end, character to character, and it gives so many options for replayability with the various different interesting and entertaining groups one can put together.

    I’m not saying its ahead of VII by miles, I’m not even saying its unquestionably better, but for my money if you sat me down and said “You have one final fantasy to play and that’s the only one you’ll ever get to play”, for me, I’d say III/VI every time.

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    Jeeeeesus.

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    hahaha....

    Sorry Work has been busy, but mindless, over the past few days since I suggested someone needed to make this thread.

    Which meant I've randomly been thinking about the post while I've been working because its been so mindless, but I haven't been able to type it.

    So today I finally had some free time and started typing and typing....

    and well, I'm typically WAY to wordy normally and that didn't help the fact.

    Yeah um.....::Cough::

    [shortened]FFVI is the best because its got great characters from top to bottom, the best final fantasy villian, the best final fantasy comedy villian, a wide range of unique character abilities, great story and character growth, the closest thing to an actual sequel prior to X-2 built into it, the bad guy actually WINNING, and you can fucking do a haduken in an RPG.[/shortened]

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    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Jeeeeesus.
    Yes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by atnumbers View Post
    My personal favorites are 7, 6 and Tactics.
    I concur with the man in pink...
    I voted for VII, but VI and Tactics really were great games as well...

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    Seriuosly why is tactics on the list? It's like asking what you're favorite mario game and listing Smash Brothers or Mario Kart.

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    It was a tremendous game, definitely good enough to make this list as it's better than all but one or two up there.

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    More like Super Mario RPG, which should count.

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    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doct1400 View Post
    It's like asking what you're favorite mario game and listing Smash Brothers or Mario Kart.
    ...yeah?


    Mario Kart is a Mario Game...
    Last edited by Bill Casey; August 4th, 2010 at 5:32 PM.

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    Super Mario RPG and Super Mario World are constantly fighting for which is my favorite Mario game, so yeah, Tactics has a place on the list for sure I'd say..

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    Plus, Tactics had an epic story just like any Final Fantasy.

    Just on story alone, it's better than all but a handfull.

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    I'd actually put Tactics as my third favorite. Granted I haven't played X and onward

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    Tactics would easily make my top three. It was a toss up between 7, 6 and Tactics for my vote here. I went with 7 for the impact it had on the gaming universe and the series itself, but could have easily gone with any of those.


    Also, Vincent is amazing. I bet he banged Jailbait. Either that or his sister Jill did.

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    For years and years it was 7 for me, not anymore.

    For me 12 is not just an almost perfect game but the single most impressive use of hardware ever implemented.

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    Really?

    Please elaborate, amigo. I've never heard anyone so positive towards it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Really?

    Please elaborate, amigo. I've never heard anyone so positive towards it.
    I've honestly never known a game to have been so masterfully put together.

    It has a learning curve that is sheer perfection, I have never, ever experienced a game like it. Eveything it throws at you is in incremental parts which lead to the next progressive area or boss you have to face. At no point are you forced to fight something which is either ridiculously out of your potential or a walkover.

    The script and voice acting are without a doubt the pinnacle of any game Square have ever released. From the multi-stranded storyline to the archaic vocabulary of the chracters, every last detail was made to be felt to be realistic and important. One of the depressing points that show this to be the case is the quality of voice acting and script in 13, it is appalling.

    The battle system has it's faults (most notably a lack to turn on and off individual Gambits from the battle screen) but the actual fighting mechanism is beauty itself. Unlike any individual RPG before or after it it made you plan out strategic fighting in real time with mass combinations of characters. A Tank, magick user and long-range shooter may work most of the time but there are occassions where it needs to be tweeked.

    Final Fanatsy 12 is, without a doubt, one of the best use of hardware, ever. A game that large, that complex, that varied, that good looking, on a fucking PS2 - at a time when the X-Box 360 was coming out with things not even half as good - easily stands aside the like of Panyer Dragoon Zwei and Toy Story as examples of getting the best and more out of a machine.

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    Well in most cases, a late-end release on one console will look better than an early release on another-- especially the PS2 which had years and years and years of tinkering with every little bit of the hardware to get the absolute most out of it. Whenever a newer, more powerful console comes out, developers don't know how to get the most out of it, so there's a LOT of shit that gets wasted. In a few years, the late-end 360/PS3 games will look better and run smoother than XboxWhatever/PS4 launch games.

    XII is definitely an excellent use of hardware because they really did impress the hell out of me with all of it, but saying that it looked better than newer console launch games, while true, doesn't really strengthen your case.

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    agree.

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    Well honestly 12 lost me when they handed me a game where the battles fought themselves.

    That isn't entirely true, but its true enough.

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    for me i can struggle through a game if i don't like the gameplay too much, im doing that now on Gears of War 2. but in XII it's the only game i've ever played in 19 years of gaming where i didn't understand any of the storyline whatsoever. the words and names were coming out, and just not going in. i could see it was a big epic game full of stuff happening, but i had no clue what. i couldn't name you any characters or towns, the antagonist or the aim of the game, what the plot is etc. everyone and everything seemed pointless or same sounding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Well honestly 12 lost me when they handed me a game where the battles fought themselves.

    That isn't entirely true, but its true enough.
    Agree. Though it made leveling up easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jesus sucks View Post
    for me i can struggle through a game if i don't like the gameplay too much, im doing that now on Gears of War 2. but in XII it's the only game i've ever played in 19 years of gaming where i didn't understand any of the storyline whatsoever. the words and names were coming out, and just not going in. i could see it was a big epic game full of stuff happening, but i had no clue what. i couldn't name you any characters or towns, the antagonist or the aim of the game, what the plot is etc. everyone and everything seemed pointless or same sounding.
    This is exactly what happened to me. Maybe it was the painkillers, but I just felt I was assaulted with cutscenes full of random, fantasyesque words I didn't have any reason to care about. Then the characters (aside from Ashe) never really developed between their introduction and the end cinematic, so I didn't care about them either. It felt like a great game engine with a generic story tacked on, just done as a demonstration of what the PS2 could do. Graphically it was very impressive, and I actually enjoyed the battles and tinkering with the gambit system and tracking down marks, but the story, the fantasy, seemed to just be spray painted on rather than built in to the game's core.

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    I don't think Final Fantasy 12 can be called the single most impressive thing anyone has ever achieved ever on a computer JP.

    JS put into words how I felt about it there, didn't get into the story at all. I honestly can't remember any of what happened in it or any of the characters now. The battles were dull too.

    I'm not a fan of the new real time battle systems in the newer games, it feels like part of the strategy of them has been taken away in favour of having to rush to get an attack in. I've gone back and played FFX after 12 and 13 and found it a lot more entertaining.
    Last edited by Torn; August 5th, 2010 at 5:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torn View Post
    I don't think Final Fantasy 12 can be called the single most impressive thing anyone has ever achieved ever on a computer JP.
    For me it stands alongside titles such as the aforementioned Toy Story (MD), Panzer Dragoon Zwei (Saturn), Shadow of the Collosus (PS2) Grandia (Saturn), and Super Mario 3 (NES) as an example of near perfection on how to get the most out of what had become seen as limited hardware.

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    Grandia was fucking AMAZING.

    Thank christ somebody else remembers it.

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