Originally Posted by Mark Hammer
doesnt our inner biases make the awful decision more hateful considering she looks like that ^^^
doesnt our inner biases make the awful decision more hateful considering she looks like that ^^^
It annoys me greatly that she gets paid to sit front row at all the big MMA and boxing events in Vegas.
McGregor/Diaz 3 in the works and being targeted for UFC 219.
This is the fight.
Yep.
Hypothetically you obviously get this fight and the interim with Lee/Ferguson settled and the winners bang it out. 219 is such a perfect event to have the trilogy end, used to love watching those NYE Pride shows, this is about as close as I'll get haha.
dana white said its not happening
so it will happen
if not UFC 219, UFC 220 or UFC 221
isnt it sickening? a dumb twat like her?
any one of us on this forum can do a better job in scoring MMA fights and take pride in it. she does it, does a shitty job, and probably cannot give 2 fucks about the sport
I would not judge boxing fights though. can you imagine how fucking boring that would be? i would be staring at the ring girls all fight. thats probably what she does.
True, boxing is extremely boring in comparison but still front row amidst all the celebrities. And being paid for it. Sign me up; I promise I'll have more integrity than this woman.
Wouldn't put any faith in DW saying the trilogy fight isn't happening btw. Most likely he just wanted to be the one to break the news.
I know he gets a little on edge about big fights leaking but usually most fans don't take it as gospel until DW or the UFC officially announce it.
Good fights just announced:
UFC 218 Alistair Overeem v. Francis Ngannou
UFC 219 Dom Cruz v. Jimmie Rivera, Carla Esparza v. Cynthia Calvillo
I'm glad they're not hotshotting Ngannou to Stipe. There will be no argument for Ngannou getting the ts if he beats Overeem and Reem would have a good argument with a win too; in any other division it would be a senseless rematch to a shellacking but HW is still pretty shallow. Not as bad as LHW though.
Cruz/Rivera is easily a number 1 contender's match as well. I prefer Cruz to win, nobody would have argued an immediate title shot given the length of his dominance and manner in which he lost ie dropping a decision but coming forward the entire fight. I'm a big fan, he is extremely well-spoken and intelligent on top of being an (unrecognized) all time p4p great. But a Rivera win would easily sell him for a fight vs the Cody/TJ winner. This one deserves it's place on the big Conor/Nate card too, give these boys some money.
Last edited by Mark Hammer; September 28th, 2017 at 3:40 PM.
I agree with all of that, but for that the Miocic win over Reem was a shellacking, Reem was very close to ending that fight on a couple of occasions. With Reem it’s always the question of whether his poor defence when he gets tagged is going to hold up long enough for his ridiculous offence to pay off.
Ariel Helwani has confirmed that Conor/Nate 3 is in the works.
Johny Hendricks has moved to Jackson-Winklejohn MMA.
Cub Swanson is headlining the upcoming fight night in Fresno vs Brian Ortega. Great fight.
Cyborg-Holm in the air at the moment. Apparently the UFC are wanting to pay Cyborg LESS than what she made in her last fight. Obviously this is just her side of the story via social media so who knows but if true, how does that even work? You fight Tonya Evinger, the equivalent of a Marcus Davis, and then you're next fight is against Holly Holm, easily one of the top 5 women in the world that does MMA and you get offered less money? Weird.
Maybe they just overpaid the shit out of her last time. Either way Borg/Holm would be money, especially in Brazil, so I say pay the girl.
It's possible. Cyborg is one of the only draws in WMMA in general, same with Holly.
If last night's fight is any indication Conor McGregor would wreck Ferguson. Got his ass kicked for 3 rounds before pulling off the hail Mary sub, he wouldn't have survived 3 rounds of that from McGregor. And that's assuming he gets through Khabib.
Good for DJ I guess. They really pushed the whole breaking Silva's record thing but never addressed that it was vs a much lower level of competition overall. Enjoy the new record and the asterisk next to it Mighty Mouse, now stop ducking people who actually stand a chance to beat you.
Khabib isn't getting shit I hope. He doesn't fight and this Russia shit is played out. I would rather see Tony fight Gaethje if he beats Eddie. Khabib is shit. Fuck him and his 90 excuses. You think Brazilians make a bunch of excuses listen to this girl. Disgrace to Russia...when did Fedor sound pathetic?
DJ's finish was a thing of beauty.
It really was. Looked like a pro wrestling finisher so credit where it's due. But he doesn't deserve the "I'm better than Anderson" accolades. Silva defended his belt against great fighters.
Love him or not 24-0 and never failing a drug test deserves credit.
I agree with you to an extent. He definitely faced lower level competition compared to Silva. But all DJ can do is fight what's out there at his weight, unfortunately it will always be remembered as a weaker division that he dominated.
Also he hasn't passed Silva's win streak yet so there's at least that to pass still.
He did pass it with last night's win. And he actively ducked a fight vs TJ Dillashaw at 125 to fight Ray Borg instead, to help his chances at breaking Silva's streak as TJ would have been a much, much steeper task.
I thought it was only Silva's title defense streak he broke, not all consecutive wins.
I had forgotten about the Dillashaw deal.
Well yeah but the title defense record was the big story going into this fight.
I never said he doesn't deserve credit for having no losses, don't really care if he's failed a drug test or not. I just can't stand his personality. He's such a fucking whiny bitch that makes up a ton of bullshit. Have you seen the interview with Ariel where he acts like a disgruntled ex-gf? It's hilarious how Teen Mom he acts about everything. You need to fight, and he doesn't, and when he has fights, he winds up wasting everyone's time. You can bet your ass if his next fight is in Russia for the belt he's going to come in with a perfect weight cut at the very least. He's looking to Jinder his way to a title shot i.e. banking that the UFC/WME will go "We need to get that Russian market!" but they don't need it. They have a ton of Russian fighters and they don't need Khabib to sell out the show.
Well 24-0 with steroids is different than 24-0 without steroids. That's where I was going with that.
I'm confused as to how steroids are coming in to this conversation?
Are you serious? I'm saying that 24-0 without steroids is impressive. Hence my point that 24-0 with zero failed drug tests is commendable, and my counter to your claim that it doesn't matter whether or not he's failed a drug test. I wasn't talking about weed.
But what was the initial reason for pointing out he hasn't supposedly used steroids? It was just so random lol. Going back I'm thinking, was he implying Fedor was on roids, because that was the only person I mentioned other than Khabib but naw you just randomly tossed out the steroid thing. I was just curious. If the implication is that you only rack up a record like that on steroids, where's the proof? Jon Jones?
Now that I think of it I did mention Gaethje who's what, 17-0 and no steroids. So props to him but I really don't know too many undefeated fighters that made it to the high teens, low 20's and were all on roids.
I was pointing out that 24-0 and no steroids is an admirable feat. I literally have no clue how else to explain it.
And yes, Jones is a good example.
Speaking of Jones it's being reported that if he can prove the failed test was due to a tainted supplement then he won't face any suspension. Lol though.
Yeah good luck to him. His career is fucked but people forgive and forget pretty easily in MMA.
I would forget
Jon Jones = GOAT
and I agree, I think Conor wrecks Tony if he can finish him inside 2-3 rounds
after that, Conor gets tapped out
anyone think the UFC purposely had Big Dan as the ref between Mighty Mouse and Ray Borg as an inside joke? when he raised MM's hand and was holding Ray Borg's hand when they announced the victory, it looked like he was disciplining his children
Dude, the weird part of your slandering of the smaller weight classes is that we've seen you and you're not exactly a big dude haha. You're what? 5'7", 140lbs.? That's not exactly a big dude to be talking. But we find that most people on that are around your size tend to slight smaller people because the real big people smashed you up quite a bit or you want to be like them. Either way, get over it lol.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel sorry for a grown man who was 5'3. UFC champ or not, is however long your career lasts worth being abnormally short, shorter even than most women?
If you're someone who is that self absorbed and lack confidence and feel you have to be something you're not to be confident, to be accepted, to be "someone", I don't think it matters. You think Bruce Willis gives a fuck he's only 5'5"?
I'm sorry that offended you? It would suck to be 5'3. Please forgive me for feeling that way.
lol that was kind of random, I am 6'0 and 215, I have pictures on here from last year standing faced up to Stipe Miocic for comparison but cant be bothered to dig them up. Anyway, I am not trying to get personal with posters on here
if you watched the PPV and didnt think Big Dan standing in the ring next to Mighty Mouse and Ray Borg wasnt some sort of inside joke, then I dunno what to tell you. He literally looked double their size
it has nothing to do with insecurities. I like bantamweights, featherweight division is awesome
regardless of what everyone here or the hardcore MMA fan wants to think, I am not alone in the sentiment that just cannot take Flyweight seriously.
I have taken multiple girls who like UFC (and I mean that loosely, they will watch it if I drag them to a bar and buy them drinks while its on), but they think the size of MM is just too small to be taken seriously at all and laugh when they see him on the TV. This goes with casual friends as well
there is a reason MM is not a draw in the slightest bit, and probably negates buyrates. and it isnt because his lack of marketing.
MM is a great fighter, one of the top pound for pound, yes, but there is just not viable competition at that size (due the low amount of men who can cut to 125lbs, let alone cut to 125lbs and are MMA fighters sufficiently trained in all disciplines), and I am not interested in seeing him fight anyone at Flyweight ever again unless Dillashaw or Cody can chop off a limb and make 125
Last edited by Spedizzo; October 11th, 2017 at 11:42 AM.
From what I understand it's the athletic commissions who appoints the referees, not the UFC or Dana White. Who knows, maybe the NSAC peeps have a weird sense of humor though.
If you're never marketed outside of a promo commercial here and there a week before the event, in an already cluster fuck of an organization, I would lean toward lack of marketing and not "He's short". I mean, Urijah Faber is a draw and he's only 5'6". Why is he draw? Marketed very well.
The "I have taken multiple girls" comment is weird to me because I don't see what that has to do with anything. The casual friends comment I can get behind but why specifically point out the girls you've taken? Every girl I've watched MMA with didn't give a shit and wished they were doing something else other than watching MMA lol.
I think there are definitely people who agree with you that the size of Flyweights is difficult to take the division seriously, until they step up to your "6'0" 215lbs." frame and mop the floor with you and completely shatter your confidence. There are also people who believe that the reality is simply for years in MMA the smaller weight classes are not as big of a draw more often than. As time has gone by and those smaller weightclasses have become more established, more draws. I mean, the biggest draw is Conor McGregor and I don't think it matters if he's 5'9, 6'9, 4'9". Same with Floyd Mayweather, hasn't been anyone making money and drawing numbers like Money and he's a smaller guy in a sport where it's mainly been Heavyweights who were the big big draws.
You say you like bantamweights and featherweights, you do know MM used to fight at Bantamweight? There are actually quite a few top tier fighters that were top tier fighters at 135 and then dropped to 125 to fill out the division.
For me it's just too many fighters, divisions to keep up with because the sport is growing so quickly. 5 years ago we had 50% of the cards we have now.
I feel like most of the time you don't really read the posts you respond to. He very clearly pointed out that they don't mind watching but laugh when DJ is on.
Which brings me back to my point that it would be horrible to be that small. You can have all the confidence in the world but women still notice an abnormal lack in height first and most women I've ever spoken to might think a guy is the cutest guy in the world but being shorter than them is a deal breaker. I imagine you also believe that penis size doesn't matter as long as you have swag. Well that is not the case.
Also, Floyd and Urijah are not 5'3. They are very short but not as short as a child.
Last edited by Mark Hammer; October 11th, 2017 at 1:42 PM.
My daughter is 5'6" and she's 13. I'm just saying. 5'6" is pretty short for a man.
Did you read what he said? That they'll watch it if he drags them to watch it lol. Yeah, my gf will watch it if I make her watch it but that doesn't mean she enjoys it lol. He literally says I MEAN THAT LOOSELY and that they'll go if he buys them drinks. So who's not reading what?
You're a meathead, don't blow up over that but you are you embrace it. If you've been dumped for having a small penis, being too short, etc. that's on you. You and Sped have a very weird position on this subject and it's not even relevant to anything lol.
I'm 6'0, have a nice dick, and I don't get strangely offended when people make note of men that are childlike in stature.
The only people in this discussion who are offended are you and Sped for me thinking it's weird that Sped has this strange obsession with pointing out Mighty Mouse and others look like children. The more I tell you it's a weird thing to care about and make assumptions about, the more it seems YOU are getting bothered. Take a step back, breathe, we don't always have to agree it's not the end of the world.
So is everyone now 6'0"?
Again, I don't know why there has to be personal comments.
My point is from what I have seen, there is some sort of law of diminishing returns when it comes to a casual fan or non-fan when they find out the size of the male flyweight competitors.
People I have taken with me to bars (girls, guys, whatever) while not invested in MMA beyond following Conor McGregor and liking pictures of his baby on instagram, do for the most part enjoy the events. But I have never met a casual fan or non-fan who didn't immediately get turned off of Mighty Mouse or a flyweight fight upon knowing their size.
Does anyone even watch flyweight fights outside of Mighty Mouse? Lets be serious. How many Flyweights can you name in the entire world that Mighty Mouse has not fought?
I recognize that Mighty Mouse is one of the top talents in the world, but at the same time, I really don't care. I am just not interested and apparently neither is anyone else because the #1 P4P isn't just an average or poor draw, I believe he negates buys.
Your 13 year old daughter has a significant size advantage on Mighty Mouse. He would have to look up at her. This doesn't really help any arguments in defense of how much of a joke their size is.
And since when is being 6'0 a big deal? Most of the guys I know are 5'10-6'2.
What personal comments am I making Sped? I'm being dead serious, what do you mean by "personal comments" and how are they negatively affecting you? I called Mark a meathead, that's not a slander, he's a meathead and he knows it.
How many draws are there under 170? You could count them on one hand. I can name them right now. Conor McGregor. That's about it lol. The smaller weightclasses have always struggled in MMA. McGregor is not the bar, he's a rare rare rare case. Which is why people who try to steal his swagger fail miserably. All the sudden Dominic Cruz talks shit, it doesn't do shit for his buyrates. Mighty Mouse takes the GSP approach, it doesn't do shit for his drawing ability either.
Is that due to their size? I'm sure it's part of it but I don't know. I would think there are several factors that trump "They're so small girls won't like them" argument that you keep trying to make for some weird reason. And if THAT is a personal comment, idk what to tell you.
Mighty Mouse has the record for the lowest drawing PPVs in the UFC since 2005. His fights with Dodson, Bagautinov, and Horiguchi all have under 120K buys. He also has the record for the lowest UFC on Fox rating when he faced Reis. Again, it isn't just poor marketing. He is the #1 P4P fighter in the world, isn't he? Surely that alone would at least not garner him to remain the worst draw in modern UFC history??
A big reason I believe, is because casuals (including girls turned off by his freakishly small size) do not tune in at all. This makes it difficult for the more hardcore fans to convince people to go to the bar with them, let alone order a PPV, when he is headlining a card. I was just bringing this up from personal experience.
They had to have an Ultimate Fighter just so they can scan the globe and grab all the 125lb champion fighters in every bumfuck organization just so there is someone to fight him. Not only did that do nothing to increase Mighty Mouse as a draw, it further adds to my belief that there just isn't enough viable competition at 125lbs.
And I didn't say you made personal attacks that affected anyone. I just think its pointless to constantly comment on other people's appearance or heights when it is irrelevant (and incorrect). If you were 5'0 or 7'0, it wouldn't matter.
Summary: Mighty Mouse is just too small as and I firmly believe that is a big reason why he is a shit draw.
Last edited by Spedizzo; October 11th, 2017 at 4:00 PM.
It's just too difficult to properly advertise and market Mighty Mouse. They can have 200 commercials and vignettes of Joe Rogan telling everyone he is #1 P4P, but the second he goes on a morning talkshow and everyone sees that the female host is 3 times the size of him, interest diminishes.
I fucking love how you said what you said in bold while A-the entire time you've done nothing but slander appearances and then you end it with doing the same thing you told me was pointless lol.
Most casuals only watch for the mega draws. Jon Jones, McGregor, GSP. Maybe 2 or 3 others. Most UFC ppvs are around the 200k mark no matter if it's a 125er or 205er.
MM is not a draw, why is that? Many factors, not just "He's smaller than a woman". Again, I'm enjoying your commentary about his size and then having the nerve to say we shouldn't be focusing on someone's size.
Except they don't do any of that so you're basing this on your typical BS.
The number 1 p4p shit is a little off base when you consider the low talent pool he's fighting in. Plenty of the guys under him on the p4p list would win all of their fights too if they fought the same level of competition. TJ and Cody should both be able to handle him.
What will your opinion be when Mighty Mouse beats them? I mean, you're really just saying "lesser known talent". TJ and Cody aren't draws. At all. The selling point for them isn't a fight against each other, it's a fight against another champion. Whether that's Mighty Mouse, Max Holloway, nobody is giving a shit about 135 either. Or 145 without Conor. Or 155 without Conor. 170 is struggling without GSP. 185 has really nobody but GSP. 205 has zero. HW is fucked. There are no draws in MMA at a real respectable level. We're splitting hairs when talking about people we KNOW. Like I could go, Frankie Edgar v. Mighty Mouse @ 135 would be a huge fight. Not because of the division but because of the Superfight aspect of these 2 fighting. Edgar isn't going to draw more than 200k, maybe 250k with his upcoming title fight against Holloway.
No, I'm saying lesser talent. The fact that there are far fewer men in the world that can make that weight and be healthy means there is a far smaller pool of talent. You're right that nobody knows who they are, but it's because nobody gives a shit. They are the size of children, most people will pass.
And why are you telling me TJ and Cody aren't draws? I'm saying they would likely beat him, never said shit about their drawing ability.
They might not be big draws, but Mighty Mouse isn't just not a draw, but again, he has been proven to be a severe detriment to buyrate and ratings. Any time he main events a PPV the buyrate is immediately in the 100K range. And he has the lowest rating for any UFC on Fox, and there has been shit ones. If the entire division vanished nobody would bat an eye.
And I highly doubt Mighty Mouse beats TJ Dillashaw or Cody. Those are absolutely awful stylistic matches for him. They won't shoot for an awful single and then attempt to pull guard like the guy who can't beat Justin Scoggins (Ray Borg) did.
I think it's just that nobody gives a shit on the bigger scale the same way nobody gives a shit about most of the divisions as a whole. I mean, McGregor, biggest draw in the UFC, why doesn't anyone at 145 or 155 draw even a 5th of the numbers he does on UFC ppv? If McGregor was at 125 we'd be singing a different tune about the division. I don't think it's about size as much as it is about the fact that the UFC is oversaturating their own product to the point where with any weight class if you don't have the machine behind you, if you don't have a flashy persona, or if you didn't make your name before 2010, good luck. You need at least 2 of those to really blow up in the UFC. Conor McGregor is not where he is just because he ha a flashy persona, he had the machine, and he fucking delivered. MM, if he had a flashy person, if he had the machine, he already delivers in the cage, but he would be a bigger deal I would think but that's just me.
Sorry about the draws thing I was caught up in the moment.
I'm not even disagreeing with you about Mighty Mouse's drawing ability.
It's almost impossible for me to look at a guy with 2 losses, at least 6 years ago, and go "This is a bad match up and this is why he'd lose". He's fast, he's strong, he's innovative, he's well-rounded. He's beaten guys that were top guys at 135. Take your petty excuse for not liking him out of the equation and respect the man's ability.
He lost to Brad Pickett and should have lost to Ian McCall the first time they fought. He's not a world beater. He's a great fighter fighting mostly cans. That division is garbage.
And I forgot, but his "win" over Miguel Torres was utter bullshit. He squealed like a piglet when they gifted him the decision too.
Truthfully, the only way to measure greatness is how great they do against talent that can also be considered great. Demetrious is likely the most talented fighter of all time but he's only really got Benavidez as a big win. Cejedo will likely become great but was shy on experience when they fought. Dodson is very good. Horiguchi, like Cejedo, fought him a bit early. Other than that the resume isn't great. Nobody else in the division has even beat those 4 guys let alone DJ. It's not like GSP who beat Penn, Hughes, Hendricks, Serra and Sherk (all recognised former undisputed UFC champions) as well as Shields, Diaz and Condit (champs in major promotions) AND Fitch, Koscheck and Alves, likely top 20 all time in a stacked weight class. Mighty Mouse has beaten one recognised champion from a major promotion thus far in Miguel Torres. Yes, his division is new and there hasn't been other flyweight champs because he's been the constant, but you need wins over top fighters.
Basically DJ's only real shot of winning over a certain group of fans is that he needs to fight dudes at 135 ORRRRR someone comes along at 125 that turns into a Conor McGregor type. IMO, even if DJ beat Cody, TJ, moved up to 145 and beat Holloway, beat Edgar, beat Aldo....None of that matter if the UFC machine isn't behind him. A promo a week before a ppv and maybe an interview on Matt Serra's podcast is pretty much all he ever gets and all he'll ever get. It's going to be one of those situations where he'll just never get the recognition as the #1 guy. He'll always be in the discussion as a top 10 p4p, 11 title defenses in a row, regardless of what you think about his division, that's impressive. Name 1 champion who even makes it past 2-3 title defenses, it's a short list.
How can you argue that the UFC machine isn't behind DJ when they are constantly pushing this #1 p4p bullshit and continuing to give him main event slots in spite of him being a proven anti-draw?
oh like when he didn't bend over for the white man and fight TJ and Dana said he wasn't the best p4p fighter? I get that over the last 24 hours you had some weird lobotomy but let's not pretend the UFC haven't been fickle about him. Dana went out of his way publicly to spite DJ, to knock his stock down even more than it was, but yeah, the machine is behind him right? Interesting.
You can't be a draw when nobody in your company gives a shit about you. Why wasn't anyone getting the love like McGregor? Dude never won a fight that mattered and Joe Rogan says, before the guy even fought, that he hadn't seen hype like this for a fighter since Brock Lesnar. 1 dude in the crowd knew who the fuck he was sitting with Dana and Lorenzo, that was Joe haha. Where's that kind of over the top Ronda Rousey bullshit for the real elite? McGregor at least lived up to it. Dana going around 1 day saying DJ is the best and then the next saying he's not, that he's a shit draw, this and that, wow what a great guy. When did he ever do that to Ronda? Exactly.
Nope, the UFC machine has always been firmly behind him. Dana White throwing a brief temper tantrum about TJ before going right back to spreading the #1 p4p lie doesn't mean anything. He actually booked DJ vs fucking Ray Borg to headline a ppv despite numbers proving it was a bad idea to book him in a main event.
Last edited by Mark Hammer; October 13th, 2017 at 3:45 PM.
And how did he promote it? By saying DJ was this this and that, all negative because he didn't want to fight TJ. Saw zero promotion and I watch FS1 all the time, the UFC's home. Oh wait they did have a promo during the recent Ultimate Fighter lol, that nobody fucking watches. I always thought they kept having him headline in hopes that people would go "oh he must be the shit he's main eventing ppv all the time" but naw, they barely promoted the cards and/or would have a weak card in general. I mean, we can both agree there's like 3 people who can garner ppv buys above 250k everytime. MM averaged about 2-300k buys. Usually with a shitty undercard.
By droning on and on about how he's the number 1 p4p and whoring Anderson Silva's name by making it about DJ breaking his defense record. They are undeniably behind him and wanting him to be a star, but he's not and never will be, so they should stop wasting all the time and resources they've spent on him.
Great time to be an MMA fan lads. Starting next Saturday there's an event every weekend until December 16 (Lawler vs Dos Anjos). Dec 2 weekend has two cards: The Ultimate Finale and Holloway vs Edgar.
Only 3 weeks until Bisping vs GSP
According to Duke Roufus CM Punk is back in the gym preparing for his next fight.
Did anyone know that Bigfoot fought Glory HW Champ Rico Verhoeven last night at Glory 46? And got beat up for a round before the ref stopped it? What a bizarre mismatch.
Yeah, I watched it. Was a sloppy mess pretty much.
Let's be honest. CM Punk having a 2nd fight needs to happen sooner than later. IDK if that's from a fan perspective or a fighter perspective but the last thing anyone wants is to listen to how he's going to be fighting soon over the next 20 months haha. Does he even fight in the UFC? If they say no, will he test the waters in Japan or Bellator? Bellator would easily welcome him.
I honestly think they should have put CM Punk on an Ultimate Fighter. Let him get TV time and fight cans that way ala Kimbo Slice. If he does well and still loses, you can speak about how he has balls and heart, and then you can use that to put him on an opening for a main card.
There is no way you can justify him fighting in the UFC right now. He is too big of a name to put on the pre-lims (unless they want to put it on the pre-lims for a Conor McGregor magnitude card), but he definitely does not deserve to fight on the main card. It just feels like David Arquette in the main event all over again in WCW.
Mickey Gall took him down and made him look like a complete amateur. At his age and level of fight IQ, it is just not possible for him to have made any significant improvements.
Kimbo is a bad example. Kimbo's only fight on TUF was against Roy Nelson, who was a top 10 HW at the time.
You don't think he would get completely destroyed on TUF? That show is littered with a combo of Mickey Gall's and seasoned veterans who never got a shot in the UFC. Even then, we have multiple seasons with former UFC fighters. 7-8 years ago CM Punk should have put wrestling on the backburner, started training, THEN do TUF. But he has different things going on, he's trying to get into Hollywood, he's trying to train for MMA, he's probably wishing he had just wrestled Triple H at Mania 30 and retired after Roman beat him clean at 31.
Kimbo isn't a bad example and his one fight was irrelevant to my point. I think CM Punk should be on the show so people who do not feel like he deserves to be in the UFC (like how people felt with Kimbo) can get more insight into the guy behind the WWE stardom and Coca Cola tattoo, and see he is training hard and wants to fight his way to legitimacy as opposed to just being handed main card slots unjustly.
Remember when Kimbo got handled by Petruzelli in one round after so much hype? People thought he would never be in the UFC and does not deserve a spot after that... but he went on the TUF, was humble, got his ass kicked, and ended up getting a main card spot any way.
Would CM Punk get destroyed on TUF? Probably. But if he can show a good fight and good heart, I don't think many people will have issue when you couple that with his celebrity appeal in getting a main card slot... like Kimbo Slice.
It would look a lot better than him getting a main card slot against another no-name and getting mauled, which will probably happen.
All in all, I do not think he should be fighting in the UFC - period. But if he does, I always imagined him on TUF was the way to go.
You said "Let him go on TUF, get TV time, and fight cans like Kimbo" Kimbo didn't fight cans on TUF. That's why the comparison was bad. It's still bad. Seth P was an established kickboxer/MMA figther. The fact he dusted Kimbo and it's somehow a negative toward SETH is laughable. He knocked out a 1 dimensional, shitty 1 dimensional, fighter in 13 seconds. A highly skilled kickboxer laid out a street brawler in 13 seconds.
None of it will look good for Punk. Him being a douchebag on TUF isn't going to win him any new fans, probably lose fans. If he still has any.
Cans or not, putting him on TUF like Kimbo allows both parties to milk his potential UFC return for the duration of the show, give him a fight on the finale show even if he loses, and as long as he shows spirit and fights hard, I don't think it would be a bad look for him. He should fight his way into the UFC.
What will be a bad look for UFC and CM Punk is when they pair him against a no-name and he gets destroyed again. Especially when he didn't deserve a main card slot for his first fight
And I am not sure where you are going with it being a negative towards Seth. Sometimes I think you try to start debates. The fact is that Kimbo had an unreal amount of hype, lost to a guy with pink hair on short notice (despite him being a legitimate fighter, to the casual base- they didn't know him or care) and Elite XC folded right after. Nowhere did I say Seth beating Kimbo was a negative for Seth.
haha, you're so obsessed with the way people look. A guy with pink hair beat Kimbo, as opposed to Kimbo, the black Bozo the clown with a mushroom cloud for chest hair.....Anyway...
CM Punk will never be accepted by the masses of MMA. Why? Because he'll never be good enough to get the acceptance. You can only say "Well at least he went out there and did it" so many times before reality hits.
Crazy when you think about it. Elite XC was on it's way to being a legit competitor to UFC. It was bigger than Bellator is today, and aired on NBC meaning it had the network backing to eventually surpass UFC. And it was killed by a journeyman with pink hair in less than a minute. The punch that knocked Kimbo out wasn't even flush iirc. As Jim Cornette would tell you, "that's why wrestling is a work".
Wasn't there some shady business practices going on behind the scenes and that's what ultimately fucked Elite? I mean they still had Gina Carano, she was a big draw as well. Not Kimbo big, but Kimbo isn't exactly the guy you want to build a promotion around. I still remember people going "Let's see what happens when Kimbo fights Fedor" like hold up lol, that's a big jump in competition just because a guy has a name, that doesn't mean let's throw him in there with fuckin Fedor of all people.
I don't remember hearing about any shenanigans, I just know it was humiliating as the Kimbo vs Shamrock fight had been pretty heavily promoted only for old man Shamrock to pull out last minute. So clearly with so many eyes on it still (like you said) the entire show was being built around Kimbo. And he got clowned by a guy 95% of the viewing (NBC) audience had never heard of. A guy with a funny look to him no less. Granted this was almost ten years ago (can you believe it) so my details may be off but I'm pretty sure NBC pulled the plug as a result of this.
Now that I think it, wasn't Strikeforce Nashville (the Camp Diaz/Mayhem Miller debacle) aired on NBC a few years later? I'm sure after that they said "fuck that" to trying to cash in on the MMA craze again.
It didn't help that after the fact Seth P buried the company by saying they told him to stand with Kimbo, not realizing 1 major flaw with that: Seth was a champion kickboxer who fucked up people on the feet so the smarter move would probably have been to just let the fight go the way it did. But after the revelation, how could you take Elite serious? Here's from their wiki, I knew there was something bigger than this fight that fucked them and the name I was forgetting was Pro Elite.
On October 4, 2008, prominent EliteXC fighter Kimbo Slice lost via early knockout to late replacement fighter Seth Petruzelli. The unexpected outcome of this fight drew a great deal of attention, and subsequent comments by Petruzelli that he was offered a monetary bonus to employ certain techniques during the fight (comments he later recanted and obfuscated), raised the question of undue influence by EliteXC representatives in fights. Significant debt incurred by parent company Pro Elite with no investors or buyers showing interest[8] caused the subsequent cancellation of the November 8, 2008 event. Combined with the Florida State Athletic Commission launching an investigation into the Slice/Petruzelli fight, Pro Elite announced on October 20, 2008 that they would cease operations.
Well Pro Elite was the parent company but it was Petruzelli that drove the stake in the coffin.
Yeah, kind of like Josh Barnett did to Affliction.
There's a new sheriff in town and his name is Darren Till. What a performance. Cerrone didn't look himself though that may have been because Till didn't give him the chance to breathe.
Assuming Mike Perry gets through Ponzanibio or however it's spelled I'm all for that showdown. Not sure why Perry accepted that fight to begin with tbh, he deserves a contender or name fight. Either way I'm pulling for him. I love Perry's gimmick of super stereotypical UFC bro.
Perry would definitely be the "Let me fight bro" on TUF.
Never even heard of Till until this fight was announced. Cerrone did look....old? I don't know. You can't fight that dude's schedule and not pay for it. Or Till is just fucking great and Cerrone was just the new Leben.
All of the above though one of the fighters commented that people are never the same after going to war with Robbie Lawler. There might be some truth to that ie Hendricks, Condit, and now Cerrone. Though I think in Hendricks' case it's USADA.
I am not concerned with how people look, but you would be an ignorant twat to not think it matters to the casual base which is what EliteXC targeted towards.
Kimbo had a reputation (both good and bad) and was being built as the undefeated underground brawler, and if some random turned on CBS or ABC or whatever the fuck was on TV at the time and saw big bad Kimbo get wrecked in 20 seconds by a guy who dyes his hair pink, it isn't a good look. Those casuals had no idea who Seth was, regardless of his legitimate fight history. The hardcore MMA fans knew Kimbo was essentially a fraud, and the casual base who were invested in Kimbo immediately evaporated.
Well, Kimbo couldn't fight Tank Abbott all the time so he was bound to fight real dudes. If one of those dudes didn't hold up to your standard, so be it. If you were watching a Kimbo Slice fight, or an MMA fight in general, and you're trippin about a guy with pink hair, you probably are an ignorant twat.
But please, go on and tell us more about how you don't care about looks when 90% of your comments are insulting fighters who don't look like you or the imagery of what you think an MMA fighter should be.
Darren Till though and how boss and honest was he in his backstage interview.
I don't think Spedizzo argued a single time that the casual fanbase wasn't filled with ignorant twats. We're talking about the same fanbase that thought Ronda Rousey would destroy Floyd Mayweather.
Right, I was agreeing with him.....
Well, Joe Rogan was in that same "fanbase" Actually it's kind of scary when you look at the fighters, commentators, promoters, etc. who bought in to comments like Ronda could outbox Floyd Mayweather or Ronda could beat Cain V.
16-0 MMA, 44-0 pro kickboxing record, and only 24 years of age meaning he probably hasn't even reached his physical prime. This kid is the future, UFC would be wise to promote him.
I love Rogan to death but he is a shill to the max. How else do you explain such an intelligent guy fawning over Rousey's atrocious boxing? He hopped off that wagon quick when Holly wrecked her.
I mean, I will say this about Ronda. When you think about what she did to the talent available, it's extremely impressive. That's not discrediting her opponents because again, we look at someone like Royce Gracie and applaud him. 20 years from now we'll look at Anderson Silva and applaud him while saying "he'd probably get killed by dudes in their prime here in 2037". But when they started with the whole "She could beat Jose Aldo". It's not sexist or whatever label some will throw to say no, she'd get killed. Yes, I'm sure she could fuck me up with her judo, I have minimal training in martial arts or fighting in general. I mean yeah, if Floyd couldn't use his hands, sure I'll give her the nod lol. But man, a lifelong martial artist (several) saying she could do in Floyd was hilarious.
Joe Lauzon's twin has a banging body.
I'm not personally into the bulimic look dog.
In that gif she doesn't look bad though. In real life, yeah she's too tall to be that thin imo.
Yeah, Till looks a beast. He's never really looked troubled in the Octagon apart from when he dislocated his shoulder, and he still fought to a draw in that one, after winning the first 2 rounds when healthy. Cerrone might be on the wane, or he might be a natural lightweight who has met his maker when fighting bigger, equally (or more) talented guys. He's had an active 6 months so I'd be up for him waiting for the Perry/Ponz winner. That's going to be either a war or a big knockout either way so their stock is going to be high. After RDA/Lawler the welterweight division is open for somebody to take a run for a title shot for Summer next year.
Not a bad card this coming Saturday. Machida vs. Brunson and Maia vs. Covington. Brazilians looking to stay relevant as you'd imagine title aspirations go up in smoke should either lose. Both must wins. Machida has a couple of bad losses in his last 2 and his chin seems to be dodgy nowadays, but on his day he's a big puzzle. Brunson is a made to order challenger for prime Machida, the matador. Those days seem gone though so I fancy Brunson. And Covington's going to do a Woodley to Maia most likely, negate the ground game and potshot on the feet to take a dull points victory. As has been said before though, people just don't beat Demian Maia in exciting fashion as he's too dangerous and too tough to take risks against. Card has a few notables, Jim Miller, John Lineker, and a few guys on decent win streaks. Should be fun.
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