Big question is, who should Jim Miller fight at UFC 300? I'm guessing it will happen in July, 2024 so Miller would be 40 and already having fought at 100 and 200. What a great retirement fight/moment it would be to go out on a win like that.
Big question is, who should Jim Miller fight at UFC 300? I'm guessing it will happen in July, 2024 so Miller would be 40 and already having fought at 100 and 200. What a great retirement fight/moment it would be to go out on a win like that.
That would be cool to see him fight at UFC 300. The way the world works he'll probably get hurt and fight at UFC 301 instead.
To me it depends on what veterans are at that level in 2 years. RDA, El Cucuy, Barboza, Cub or Michael Johnson would be on the list. Thing is, if he gets 3 fights in a year and goes at worst 2-4 coming out of 300, he'd probably push to 4 more fights getting to 50. Which I don't think will ever be touchable.
Jim Miller's resume is legendary. I just looked up his record and wow, it's a trip down memory lane for sure. I didn't remember half of the fights, how could you?? Again it's a shame he has all these accolades in the UFC but not a single title shot. The big wins just escaped him at the time he really needed them.
RDA vs. Tony Ferguson 2 next then? Makes sense for both men at this point, though I don't think RDA is in anyway shot. I just don't think you can justify having him fight up the rankings. Nobody in the top 15 is booked to fight at the minute (though obviously 6 have fought in recent weeks) so should be pretty easy to get the ball rolling on matchups. Do Bronx and Islam looks a gimme for the vacant title, Poirier and Chandler just set a little grudge up, Fiziev called out Gaethje which is just a nailed on banger. Dariush's momentum has stalled with the injury, he's earned one of the above guys but probably has to fight down. Maybe Gamrot? Ismagulov vs. Armen and Hooker vs. Turner rounding it out. Conor the odd man out but surely they just run him and Nate at welterweight? Outside of the top 15 there's a lot of talent too.
Those all seem likely no doubt about it.Originally Posted by Fanny Batter
Quality card tonight, half the card being ranked. For a Fight Night! All well matched and entertaining scraps on paper too.
Main event should be awesome. Two granite tough offence first mad men. Ortega has the decisive advantage on the ground so I expect him to find a submission, but it's going to be a wild one to get there because his takedowns aren't great. Or Yair superman somersault ongbak elbows him and knocks him out.
Lemos vs. Waterston doesn't do much for me but a good fight to make for both. Karate Hottie can't get over the hump to a title shot, doesn't have the firepower. Lemos is the better prospect but Michelle is better than the girls she beat on her streak so this is to see where her level is. I think Lemos gets it done but it'll be tight.
Leech vs. King of Kung Fu is another good one. Leech is ranked, Salikhov is on a 5 fight winning streak but nearing 40 so pretty much needs to make a run of it now. Seeing Li winning by taking over the fight down the stretch as Salikhov tends to fade.
Su vs. Schnell is important to the flyweight division which is still shuffling in the spots 6 and below really. Has the look of a one rounder, either Su gets the counter finish or he gets subbed. Leaning the latter as Schnell is crafty and fought at a higher level. Su getting subbed a few times previous is a good indicator that there will be a big skill gap if it hits the deck.
Burgos vs. Jourdain is the one though. Fuck. Never seen either in a remotely boring fight. The lasting memory of Jourdain is him going nuts looking for the finish in his only decision win. He comes to end it. Burgos is tough as old shoe leather and been in there with the best. Coin flip but Burgos bases on levels he's fought at, but this will be wild.
Murphy vs. Tate is just an attempt to get Meisha a quick title shot really. Women's flyweight is the worst division in the company and anybody top 10 at 115 or 135 would waltz into a title shot. The one plus being the champion can fight so dross like Murphy and Jessica Eye aren't hot potatoing the title. Though saying that, Tate herself is a relic of a previous era and I see her losing here in a bad, clinch heavy fight. I hope she wins because at least there'd be a modicum of hype to the title fight while they actually build Santos for her rematch with Shev.
Featured prelim is a slugfest. I've got Soriano by KO, very heavy handed and it's a good fight to right the ship. There's something there with him if they match him correctly which they have here.
Shore vs. Simon might be the best fight on the card. Undefeated Shore against massively underrated Simon. I love it. Other than the Faber fight Simon has been super competitive with some really good wins. Shore has been brought along slow enough, similar to Arnold Allen, but has made steady improvements. I think he likely hits a wall here though, in an exciting grappling contest I see Simon having the flashier moments and taking a nip and tuck decision.
Burns vs. Algeo, I think Burns blows through him in a round. Burns is good early and Algeo won't have the firepower to stop it.
Un vs. Jacoby is another well made fight. A lot of fighters on this card with a tonne of momentum. Un is 4-0-1 in the company, Jacoby 5-0-1 since his return. So combined undefeated in 11 fights. At 205 too. Winner goes in the top 10 bubble you'd think, earning a fight with a Walker or Krylov. I've got Jacoby, Un drew with Sam Alvey and hasn't beaten anybody of note.
Grant vs. Stofulus is the pink slip fight of the night. Grant is reasonable prelim fodder at least so I favour him.
Ducote vs. Penne is sneaky relevant. Invicta champion vs. former title challenger. Winner probably earns a ranking in the one good women's division. I'd say Ducote takes it.
And us Europeans can watch it and go to bed at a decent time!
Nate Diaz v. Khamzat at UFC 279? Almost a done deal. We'll see.
Khamzat runs through him but you can't really fault the business decision, despite how flagrant it is. Belal or Colby test Khamzat a lot more with their defensive wrestling with not half the upside that comes from beating them in terms of fan interest. Sets up Usman going for the longest winning streak in UFC history against an unbeaten guy coming off a thrashing of a top 5 draw. Huge fight for next year.
Yan vs. O'Malley in Abu Dhabi underneath Do Bronx vs. Islam and Aljo vs. TJ. What a card. Massive step up for Sugar Sean. Think he gets decimated. Yan, Charles aside, is the one guy I see reclaiming his title.
See I'm still not that sold on Nate as a draw. The big fights he's been part of seemed like they had an equally and/or bigger star attached. With that said---Khamzat looked really good against Burns who is one of the best in the division. Nate is tough and that's about it. He's capable of pulling off the win no doubt and I'm not counting him out but I think he's getting 30-27'd.
I wish we had seen more out of O'Malley in his last fight. He was connecting with damn near everything he threw at dude. I feel bad, I actually forgot that Sterling and Yan had a rematch back in April. I heard this announcement and I thought wait a minute, wasn't Yan getting a title shot against the Sterling??
Quick Picks:
Pena Retains
France wins title
Lewis KO's Sergei
Pantoja/Perez...I say Perez only because I've never seen the other cat
Ankalaev submits Smith
I've got Pena too. She walked through Nunes' offence last time, tough as old shoe leather. Amanda would be best served going grappler heavy a la the GDR fight, Pena isn't much of a threat from the bottom. But that's a hard game to play for five rounds, and Pena can scramble. I actually think she breaks her down with elbows this time and gets the TKO. Would like Amanda to win, but honestly there's not much to like about 135 or 145. Guess is Shevchenko gets the winner regardless.
Moreno vs. Kara France is going to be an awesome fight, that much I know. It's more of a coin flip than the odds suggest but I do still have Moreno just on that five round experience. Kai has started to load up on his shots lately which have led to finishes, but Moreno is iron chinned and likely takes over in the championship rounds.
Black Beast fight is another coin flip. I'm going Beast though. He only loses to more dynamic strikers, and I don't think Pavlovic has the speed to put him in real trouble. It's Beast though, he looks awful in every fight until he wins so who knows. Love him.
Got Pantoja to beat Perez based on quality of wins really. Pantoja has beat the two title challengers and went to war with Figgy. Just more battle tested. Expecting this to be a banger as well.
Would love Lionheart to win, but conservative Ankalaev will be a tough nut to crack with his sambo skills. See a coasting decision unfortunately.
Prelims are light on names but actually pretty good matchups. Dober fight in particular should be excellent. Really reliable action fighter nowadays.
Ugh, that early stoppage was no bueno.
Incredible main event.
What a dogfight. Incredible toughness from Pena but Nunes showed up, didn't rush the stoppage and took her apart. First person to win a title via KO, sub and decision, to my knowledge. Cool that there's vulnerability going forward at least based on the first fight too, so at least Aldana or whoever she fights next isn't a complete write off like everybody bar Cyborg has been in the last few years.
The crazy part is Cyborg was and still is her biggest test and out of everyone she fought it was the easiest. That's MMA for you.
Crazy how, Nunes aside, there have been 8 champions between 125-145, and Nunes has beaten 7 of them. Don't think she'd have much problem with Nicco Montana either! 9-1 against them. Considering the historical lack of depth in those divisions, she's dominated the cream of the crop. Why the GOAT discussion is easy in WMMA. Nunes has beaten the rest of the top 5 bantamweights of all time and beat the best at 125 and 145 too.
Yeah she's had a few bumps in the road in the UFC with the losses to Cat Zigano and Pena but shit even GSP lost a couple to his path to greatness.
How do you guys see Amanda Nunes/Kayla Harrison go down at 145? In a sort of reversed-roles way it would kind of be the Rosey/Cyborg "dream fight" we never got. Except the Shevchenko trilogy it seems Harrison is the only threat left for Nunes out there, or am I missing someone..?
Last edited by OD50; August 1st, 2022 at 3:34 AM.
I'll be honest, I think you're in the minority with that opinion about Harrison. I don't see it as a dream fight at all. I don't see her as a threat whatsoever. Who has she fought? Let's see if she can even make 145. She's never fought MMA lower than 145. She's actually only fought at 145 one time and the next fight back up to 155.
I mean, people didn't see Pena as a threat at all. A very small % of fans gave her a chance. Cyborg at least had the name value, she had the history of killing people and came to the UFC and killed more people with ease. Kayla Harrison coming over from a promotion barely anyone outside the ultra die hard MMA fanbase even knows about.....
This is a dream fight like Fedor v. Bret Rogers was a dream fight.
I didn't mean Nunes/Harrison was a dream fight, I drew comparisons to Cyborg/Rousey which to many was a dream fight, but that the roles were somewhat changed. Maybe I worded it poorly.
Harrison is the undefeated american judoka (just like Ronda was) but she is also the one fighting sub-par competiton outside of the UFC just like many said Cyborg did at the time*. Nunes is the brazilian badass considered by many to be the goat (just like many did Cyborg), but she is also the (aside from the Pena glitch) very dominant UFC champion (just like Ronda was).
Cyborg was easily the bigger name of course since Gina was the absolute star of womens MMA at the time Cyborg beat her. Harrison of 2022 would do terrible things to Gina of 2009 though. She's an absolute tank of a woman, her grappling is phenomenal and her striking right now is much, much better than Ronda's ever were. Not on Nunes level of course but the same applies to Cat Zingano and Juliana Pena but they both outgritted and beat Nunes on the ground. Harrison's grappling and power is on another level to both Cat and Pena.
Most people probably don't even know that Kayla and Amanada were training partners for years at ATT. Not saying Kayla definitely wins but it would be very interesting.
*Between her Strikeforce and UFC runs Cyborg fought names like Tro Van Duin, Charmaine Tweet and Dana Ibragimova. The only names on her resume at that point was Gina Carano (obviously) and Marloes Coenen.
Last edited by OD50; August 2nd, 2022 at 11:54 AM.
@OD50 I don't want to try to compare someone who fought in the early days of WMMA where the depth was almost non-existent versus someone who has had a few chances to sign with the UFC but chose to stay in the PFL. I see what you're saying but you're coming from a very very hardcore fan mentality of what Harrison offers. Especially if you think she's the only threat in the entire world to Nunes.
Harrison has had chances to fight both Nunes and Cyborg Santos. She chose to do something else. I'm curious if she would've signed with the UFC had Nunes not lost to Pena. Dana, a few others said that fight was off the table so to speak after the loss but it was going to no doubt happen at 145. Harrison has spent 90% of her career fighting at 155 or higher.
If Harrison fought better talent I'd be there with you man. But stopping Kaitlyn Young isn't exactly the same as smokin Holly Holm in a minute.
I didn't write that though, I wondered if Harrison was the biggest threat to Nunes except for the trilogy fight with Bullet (I had Shevchenko winning in the second fight) or "am I missing someone?". I haven't kept upp 100% with MMA as of late and especially not with WMMA so there might well be some new up and coming beast at 135 or 145 I haven't really taken notice of. Harrison wanted to sign with the UFC or Bellator but they (rightly) didn't offer anywhere near what she can make in the PFL since she is a no-name to the casual viewer/PPV buyer.
It's kind of interesting that she talked about that being considered the best in the world was much more important to her than money, yet she choose to re-sign with the PFL to crush cans and make another easy million.
/So, I looked around a bit and it seems that Ketlen Vieira could be the frontrunner to fight Nunes at 135 since she beat the ghosts of Holly Holm and Miesha Tate back-to-back. If not, maybe Irene Aldana (who beat Vieira) if she beats Macy Chiasson..?
Last edited by OD50; August 2nd, 2022 at 1:41 PM.
That's the thing. Kayla will fall back on that whole PFL $1 million tournament stuff while calling out fighters in other organizations that are offering her to sign. She is a nobody in the grand scheme of things. PFL isn't a top tier organization.
If you haven't been following much MMA and/or WMMA then Harrison's name being a threat is even more confusing.
I was only curious how you people would see a hypothetical fight between Nunes and Harrison (at 145 obviously) would go since there doesn't seem to be many women left in the UFC to challenge her (especially at 145). Bullet is her equal even if she has lost twice, and is of course smallish even at 135.
Speculating and hypotheticals are part of the fun for me, even about fights that never happened or never will happen. Who would win between Fedor and Brock? Fedor and Lesnar? Ronda and Cyborg? Ronda and Gina? GSP and Anderson Silva..? What would have happened if CC beat Gonzaga and fought Randy for the title? And so on.
Remember when Mark Hammer got pissed because I dared to speculate that Alexander Gustafsson could possibly beat Rich Franklin and Forrest Griffin despite not being a big name or having proven himself in the UFC yet..? Just because you haven't seem someone compete against the best doesn't mean that they couldn't eventually beat some of the best.
Last edited by OD50; August 3rd, 2022 at 3:55 AM.
Haha I don't remember that conversation with Mark Hammer at all. Was this before Gus was in the UFC? Gus showed up in 2009, Franklin and Griffin at this time were not the Amanda Nunes of their division or the GOAT of the men as she is the GOAT of the women. So yeah I'm sure if you said a 6'5" LHW could beat Rich Franklin or Forrest Griffin when they were losing every other fight sure.
I think for me it was simply you questioning whether or not Kayla Harrison was the only threat on the planet to Nunes. Kayla Harrison has dominated a nothing division in a nothing promotion in a time where WMMA is a lot deeper than it was back in 2010 or even 2015. People didn't think Julianna Pena was a threat to Nunes and look how that worked out. Plenty of fighters in the UFC alone. Cyborg-who's in Bellator, is still a bigger threat than 99% of the women out there. Just because she got KO'd in 30 seconds doesn't mean much, Cain V was KO'd about that quick against JDS and look how their 2 rematches went. JDS lost half his life lol.
I wouldn't mind Nunes/Cyborg 2, I definitely give Cyborg a shot despite what happened in the first. Dana just now said that he would like to see the Nunes/Shevchenko trilogy next and that the Cyborg rematch was (understandebly) completely off the table. A great scenario would be if PFL and Bellator could somehow co-promote Harrison/Cyborg, that would definitely show at what level Kayla is at. Besides Cyborg and Nunes there are a grand total of 0 women at 145 that could do anything to Harrison, especially outside of the UFC. Maybe PFL can sign Megan Anderson to at least give her something of a "name" to fight.
Point with Alex is that just because someone is unproven and not having fought top-tier competiton it doesn't mean they can't hang with or defeat big names. Franklin and Griffin were household names and former champions at the time while Alex was a relative rookie and 1-1 in the UFC at the time. In Mark's mind it was like heresy to suggest Alex could win those fights. Many people were crowing about Justin Gaethje being a bum fighting cans and one-armed fighters in WSoF, now he's probably their favorite fighter.
Same happened on some old K1 forum I used to hang out on a bit, the peeps there were enraged that I dared suggest that Martin Holm could hang with the elite at the time in K-1.
Last edited by OD50; August 3rd, 2022 at 11:58 AM.
Yeah Nunes-Bullet 3 would be cool. I mean, Wandy beat Rampage decisively twice in a row so why not after the fights these 2 women have had?? Usually we don't see a trilogy unless it's a rubber match but sometimes that's the best route to go.
With Gus it's more about who you were talking about. In comparison, at that time, Rich Franklin and Forrest Griffin were not considered the GOAT. Even when they were champions they were not considered the best male MMA fighters especially in 2009-2010. WMMA might not have the depth of the men, but Nunes isn't just the GOAT of 135. She's the P4P GOAT.
For me I think it's also I'm sick of hearing about Kayla Harrison. I am 100% someone who believes that if you truly want to be the best female MMA fighter, you have to be in the UFC. Bellator is fine they have Cyborg and they have Cat Zigano who rarely fights but imo still a threat. A few others for sure. But the UFC is the only place that truly matters due to the depth. Until Harrison fights in the UFC the hype is unwarranted.
Yeah, for every Gaethje there's a couple of Hector Lombard's. It's hard to transition to the UFC. You generally get thrown in at the deep end if you've got a name and you quickly find out whether they're at that level. Women's divisions 125 and up are pretty shitty so I think Harrison would mow through the McMann's and Pennington's of the world, but nothing there to suggest she hangs with Nunes.
We have to always remember she fights at 155. I looked at her record, maybe 1-2 fights at 145. 145....It's irrelevant. They know full well Nunes was barely going to defend that belt and by now should've created at least an interim champ. If Harrison could make 135 then let's talk. But imagine your first fight in the UFC is 2 weight classes lower against the greatest female fighter in her fuckin prime.
UFC 281 at MSG could be headlined by Chandler v. Poirier. That's a killer fight.
Should be another Chandler classic like the fights with Eddie and Gaethje, win or lose.
As for Kayla Harrison I'm not sure the original point went through, maybe because I'm on my dads old shitty laptop that auto translates everything to swedish.. I never said anywhere that Harrison would beat Nunes, but the point was who right now in the UFC (aside from the Shevchenko trilogy at 135) would be a bigger challenge for Nunes than Harrison, I threw out Aldana and Vieira but didn't get too much opinions on those. Their fight would obviously take place at 145 if Kayla isn't interested in amputating a leg or two to make weight. I was also interested in you guys opinion on a hypothetical Nunes/Harrison fight at 145, and from what I see Nunes is the huge favorite, as she should be of course. The problem is that Harrison would probably have to face Nunes for the title in her debut, who else at 145 is there even there after Megan Anderson was cut and that canadian girl retired? Maybe a buffed up Holly Holm?
In reality I guess the UFC should retire the 145 title, it was just created so Cyborg would have something to do. Remember that Dana was very close to getting rid of mens FLW/125 at one time and I'd wager womens FW is and always has been a worse division, even when mens FLW was at its lowest.
My point is also that people have a habit of discounting anyone fighting outside of the UFC when in reality pretty much every fighter has to start somewhere else, with the exception of maybe Matt Mitrione and one or two others. Remember that goofy canadian Karate guy fighting bums in TKO, that Ragnar Lothbrok wannabe irishman that got subbed in 38 seconds in Cage Warriors or the skinny brazilian getting subbed by japanese cans in Pride?
I just read that Cyborg is a free agent and that PFL is trying to do the Harrison/Cyborg fight, either in the PFL or in co-promotion with Bellator if Cyborg re-signs. I think Cyborg/Harrison would be an excellent gauge of Harrisons skills. I guess Cyborg being a free agent explains the happy birthday text she sent to Dana..Dana said he wasn't interested in Cyborg/Nunes 2 though.
Last edited by OD50; August 4th, 2022 at 4:24 AM.
Dana doesn't want Cyborg/Nunes 2 because he knows Cyborg can KO Nunes just as easily. Plus she beats the shit out of everyone but it's all going to be above 140. 135 is too much of a cut as we've seen. Not to mention they're not exactly fond of each other. Dana and others, shit many others to this day, they said a lot of foul shit about Cyborg especially when Cyborg was really trying to get in to the UFC and fight Rousey. IMHO there isn't a bigger piece of shit moment from Dana than when he was trying to defend saying Cyborg looked like Wanderlai in a dress. Just say Ronda was scared lol.
Enas om alla delar. Föreställ dig Danas huvudvärk om Cyborg kom tillbaka och KO'd Nunes stel vid 145, det skulle göra det svårt att marknadsföra Nunes som den kvinnliga GETEN samtidigt som hon betalade Cyborg stora pengar för att försvara sin FW -titel mot Tonya Evinger.
Cyborg underskattade förmodligen Nunes makt tills det var för sent. När hon insåg hur hårt Nunes slog var hon redan på rullskridskor. Jag tror att en returmatch där Cyborg är bättre förberedd på vad Nunes tillför och inte så hänsynslös kan vara minst 50/50.
/Man, insåg precis hur mycket jag saknar att se Martin Holm slåss. Han var en sådan badass i ringen, men han hade sina personliga demoner och dog alldeles, alldeles för tidigt.. Jag flög till Paris med min dåvarande GF 2003 bara för att se honom mot Ernesto Hoost.
Last edited by OD50; August 4th, 2022 at 10:27 AM.
This is awesome lol.
I don't know what any of it says but I will say this, I saw Bob Sapp beat Hoost in K-1. That was nuts especially looking back 20+ years later knowing how legendary Hoost is and how shitty Sapp is lol. That's like finding out CM Punk beat GSP or something wild.
This shitty laptop auto changes everything to swedish..
It basically says that I agree with what I quoted.
/I ran it through Google translate so it's probably not exactly what I wrote:
Agree on all parts. Imagine Dana's headache if Cyborg came back and KO'd Nunes stiff at 145, it would make it difficult to promote Nunes as the female GOAT while paying Cyborg big bucks to defend her FW title against the likes of Tonya Evinger. Cyborg probably underestimated Nunes' power until it was too late. By the time she realized how hard Nunes was hitting, she was already on roller skates. I think a return match where Cyborg is better prepared for what Nunes brings and not so reckless could be at least 50/50.
Man, realized just how much I miss watching Martin Holm fight. He was such a badass in the ring, but he had his personal demons and died way, way too soon.. I flew to Paris with my then GF in 2003 only to see him against Ernesto Hoost.
Last edited by OD50; August 4th, 2022 at 3:45 PM.
So, Adesanya vs. Pereira in the Garden. Hopefully Alex brings the fight out of Israel, this might be his 'Chael' fight as his star is threatening to dim after a couple of lacklustre fights. The extra needle from the kickboxing defeats should be motivation enough. Alex made his UFC debut last year at MSG so quite the leap.
Looking on the horizon, the end of the year has some fun fights but it has the feeling that it's setting up for bigger things next year. Jones and McGregor are almost certainly on the shelf until 2023. Usman and Chimaev is on the table if they get through their next fights. Charles vs. Khabib if Do Bronx gets past Islam? Or Volkanovski going for the double. Cejudo's return looks in play. Aldo title shot if he beats Merab (and thus potentially TJ vs. Aldo in an all time dream fight). Potentially Nunes vs. Shevchenko 3. Figgy Smalls vs. Moreno 4. Feels like we're building towards 2015-2016 levels of frequent big fights. I love the sport but it's been a minute since a fight really had anticipation behind it.
Excellent card last night. 10 fights, 10 finishes. Good viewing with my cereal this morning.
I think light heavyweight is quite a logical division to plan for - Jiri vs. Glover 2 with the winner fighting the winner of an Ankalaev/Jan fight. I'm not usually an advocate of instant rematches but that fight was a classic. If Jan or Ankalaev had big finishes in their last encounters you could have argued them into a shot, but opponent injuries have stifled them. Elsewhere, Hill vs. Rakic if the latter is fit anytime soon. I would say Dom Reyes but he should get a rebuild rather than getting thrown in the deep end. His 3 losses look excellent in retrospect.
Geoff Neal looked awesome and the Burns callout suits me. Teammate of Luque. Does feel like jumping the queue a bit given the Wonderboy and Magny losses, but no one has done that to Luque and he has a win over Belal too. Obviously plans go awry if Leon or Nate win, but it seems like Usman and Khamzat are on a collision course - after that, most impressive winner out of Neal/Burns and Belal/Brady fights Colby for the next shot I feel. Though the Khamzat/Usman winner almost certainly would go up to face Pereira if he beats Adesanya. As for Luque, back in the fun fights territory now, as his offence first style has caught up to him at the higher level. I'd be booking him and Masvidal but get the feeling they're going to go for Jorge vs. Conor now Masvidal is on the way down.
Someone explain to me how Sam Alvey wound up with a 9 fight losing streak in the UFC? The division he fights in, plenty deep. He wasn't a draw, he never sniffed a title, losing record in the company....I sort of understood BJ Penn. Mega legend. But Alvey??
I think it was explained that because he didn't drop out of fights and took plenty on short notice, he was allowed to fight out his contract. But yeah, mad really when he wasn't exactly fighting top 15 killers the whole time. At least BJ started his skid with Diaz, Rory, Frankie and Yair. Mad when Alvey was kept around and good fighters have been let go with 3-1 UFC records. Must have fought cheap.
I mean the last guy he fought looked like they found him on the street corner, and dude broke Alvey's jaw with the first punch that landed.
Looking at Sam's record...holy shit....So technically he was only on an 8 fight losing streak as the fight with Da Un Jung was a split draw.....But I also forgot this fuckin guy has a win over Rashad Evans in 2017. He didn't have too bad of a career until Lil Nog and from then on it was over.
The guy he fought at the weekend was a fringe top 20 guy at 205 with some decent recent wins, Alvey had no business in there and it showed.
Cruz vs. Vera on Saturday will be a fun one. Cruz has been kind of irrelevant for 5 years, briefly coming back into prominence for the short notice COVID Cejudo fight which he had no real business taking. But this is his chance at getting back in the title picture. You'd think with his name he'll be parked behind Aldo with a win, unless Yan and Dillashaw win in Abu Dhabi and you make Cruz vs. Aldo in a contenders fight. I do find it crazy the longevity of the lower weight WEC guys, when Cowboy, Pettis, Bendo, Condit, Stann etc have bombed out. The company has been dead nearly 12 years. Chito is a tough fight though just through his mad durability - he'll be there for 25 minutes but I don't think Dom is built for it anymore. Short of a surprise rear naked choke, I just see Cruz fading and Vera finding his target and stopping him some point from round 3 onwards.
Yeah but to be fair, those names who "bombed out" (and I might be misunderstanding that term) were/are legendary fighters.
Cruz's longevity is ironic because it's only because he's barely fought since WEC folded. WEC has been gone since 2011...Dom has fought a total of 10 times. 10 fights in 11 years. You better have some longevity with that kind of inactivity. He was off for 3 years after beating DJ, fought once, off another 2 years, fought a couple more times then was off for another 4 years.
Personally I think the guy is a douchebag and have no issues never seeing or hearing from him again. Just a total piece of shit.
This Saturday. Kind of a "meh" card. Curious if people think Usman's time has come and we get a new champion, or is this Usman moving one step further as WW GOAT? Idk, I think Edwards despite not really being that impressive since the Usman loss, has what it takes. If you're in the top 10 of the UFC WW division you're a beast it's too dangerous, too much depth, any guy in the top 20 is a possible champion or even former champion.
I'm guessing Usman wins a decision and Rockhold get's KO'd.
It would bring me great joy to see Rockhold get KO'd but Costa is a guy that I really just want to dislike lol.
Yeah, can't say either guy is particularly likeable.
But who does the winner face? I'm curious what the future holds for Rockhold if he actually wins and wants to actually fight instead of model and whine at press conference.
Rockhold would probably fight the Whittaker/Vettori winner next I'd say, or Strickland if he wins his next fight. Logically, given the way those 2 hype fights they'd give the winner of that a shot. Adesanya has cleaned it out otherwise, especially if he flies through Pereira. A Till, Strickland or Rockhold could definitely get a shot without much of a win streak. I do think Costa destroys him here though. I don't necessarily think Luke has ever been the lesser all round fighter in a bout, but his defence on the feet doesn't hold up.
I give Edwards a shot, just based on what we know about durability. Only Anderson has racked up 16 on the bounce in the UFC. Eventually the pace that fighting on top catches up to everyone. And Leon is sneaky good. He can hold his own everywhere. He's forgotten how to lose as well. I've got Usman but it's going to be tight.
Hoping Aldo gets the job done against Merab. Surely would earn one last title shot, and Dillashaw or Sterling stylistically are decent fights for him. Honestly, if he does that he enters the GOAT talk as the first person to truly EARN a second title. Merab is a good test for him as Sterling's training partner and is on a great run. The ideal would be Dillashaw vs. Aldo, Figuerido vs. Moreno 4 and Nunes vs. Aldana/Chiasson winner in Brazil in January. Throw in a Shogun retirement fight (against a scrub like Ed Herman) and you've got some card. That shitshow Diaz/Chimaev card, as well as the comparatively weak 277 and 278 lineups, lead to stacked ones past that.
I'm probably the only person who think Amanda Nunes should retire. There's nothing at 145, nobody really worth a fuck at 135, and I can live without a 3rd Bullet fight. She's going to start entering that Jon Jones run that he had at the end where it was Jon Jones v. who gives a fuck for 2-3 years.
Hard to leave money on the table though I'd imagine, and the eventual Shevchenko fight could main event and get her a solid chunk of coin.
Well I mean every fight is going to have money on the table she isn't fighting for free.
I think the Bullet 3 fight is simply trying to find something for both of them to do that is of worth. They're BOTH champions now so there's that extra bit they didn't have prior but is it enough for a 3rd time? Again, nobody is fighting in the UFC for free to my knowledge so obviously there's money on the table just like there's money on the table for Usman to move up 2 weight classes to challenge the LHW champ. But does it need to happen? No.
Point being is that it's their career and livelihood, legacy in sport is a made up thing to appease egomaniacs. As long as Nunes is happy, healthy and fulfilled doing the sport, there's no reason to knock it on the head because the matchups aren't great or she might get beat. Saying that, I'd rather that assessment come from a neurologist and not my dumb arse!
Best sport in the world. What the fuck.
Insane. That fuckin kick ga-DOYYYYSH.
I was shocked more than Rockhold went the full 15.
Told my son, Leon is winning and it's either by KO or a very very close split decision. That was all Usman and then BLAM, lights out. You cannot sleep on 170 fighters, idc who they beat to get the title shot whoever they beat was tough.
Are we going to get that Khamzat-Leon fight that made the UFC A-almost release him and B-remove him completely from the rankings? I guess it depends. Probably should do a rematch against Usman if we're being 200% honest even if I hate automatic rematches. Edwards took him down and knocked him out, first time for both in Usman's career.
Definitely will be Usman/Edwards III with the winner facing Khamzat if he beats Diaz.
I have no issue with a part 3 of this fight.
I did laugh a little when Masvidal posted something alluding to possibly fighting Edwards next and I'm just like love you Jorge but you need some wins brother. Not saying Leon is some big name draw but at least he's winning. Jorge needs to get past Burns, maybe fight the loser of Usman/Edwards 3 before getting another crack at the title. Or just take fights that necessarily aren't about rankings but about the pay day i.e. McGregor.
Masvidal vs. Chimaev after the Diaz fight is now the fight I think. Builds Chimaev into a monster draw before his title fight, or somehow Masvidal gets it done and you potentially have Leon vs. Masvidal for the title. You don't ice Chimaev at this rate anyway. Personally I'd love him to take a fight against a top 10 middleweight after Diaz because he's likely not long for 170, probably title fight and done, so get him a 185 scalp to justify an immediate second title shot.
Yeah it's hard to think of Khamzat getting a title shot off a win against Nate who's only fought 4 times in 6 years. But Leon got a title shot off it so who knows. Khamzat prided himself on being the guy who fought every other weekend but I think Covid fucked him up pretty good.
Who does 170 have knocking on the door to a title shot? Is there anyone on a decent winning streak in the top 10 they could slide in against Leon if Usman 3 doesn't happen? If Nate beats Khamzat does the UFC give him the title shot? Interesting division right now. Personally I thought if Usman won he would move up in weight.
Belal Muhammad hasn't lost for an age and had no contest with Leon, but that's not an interesting fight in the slightest. He's fighting undefeated Sean Brady next though so might get knocked off. Welterweight is pretty fun with Khamzat, Shavkat and Brady undefeated, Colby, Masvidal and Burns hanging around, Geoff Neal looking good last time out. For me, I'd go Usman vs. Edwards 3, Chimaev vs. Masvidal, Burns vs. Neal, Colby vs. Brady/Belal winner and Shavkat vs. Wonderboy. Chimaev gets a shot with a win regardless, Masvidal gets it if Leon wins, if somehow Usman and Masvidal win then you put another of the winners in there. Likelihood of Masvidal beating Khamzat though, slim.
Belal was getting lit up by Edwards and would most likely have been KO'd if not for the eye thing. It was probably the best scenario for him. Dana has said several times that Khamzat could be next for Usman*, but now with Edwards winning and the likely trilogy fight I guess they might give Chimaev another fight before fighting Usman/Edwards for the title. Otherwise he'll sit on the bench for quite a while again. Masvidal isn't exactly streaking but him vs Khamzat would be loads of fun I think.
https://mmajunkie.usatoday.com/2022/08/dana-white-khamzat-chimaev-ufc-title-shot-win-vs-nate-diaz
*Dana was probably counting on Usman getting the win against Edwards like almost everybody else.
I mean, Usman was on his way to get a clear cut UD over Edwards a few nights ago and we saw how that ended. MMA is too unpredictable to think Edwards was on his way to winning but with that said, Belal is not interesting and this is why you have guys who don't get a title shot until their 9th or 10th win.
Thoughts on El Cucuy vs. Jingliang? Ferguson is quite a big underdog and I'm not seeing it. He'll have a significant speed advantage. His losses are to 4 of the top 6 lightweights on the planet. I can see WHY he is based on that form and going up a weight class against a heavy hitter, but skill for skill it's his best matchup in years and years. Genuinely think we get a vintage D'Arce choke from Tony.
4 fight losing streak. 38 years old. Hasn't fought at 170 since he won TUF 12 years ago. Name value and your last win being 4 years ago can only get you so far in the odds.
I want Tony to win but this is going to be a tough fight. He's going to have to rely on his ground game and not try to test his chin.
Yeah I appreciate why the odds are as they are but I think an underdog bet at a good price is a play here. The Leech is a good fighter but Ferguson has the tools to beat him, as long as he fights to his strengths. I just can't see Li getting out of the way of those elbows if they fight in close, then if he panic wrestles it's all Tony from there.
Big victory for Mighty Mouse last night, avenging his first stoppage loss by knocking Moraes out with the weapon he caught Demetrious with. An all time great. For me he's top 5 without dispute. I get the competition argument, which is why there's no way he's above Jones or GSP, but that win streak and the style points he gained too, with late finishes after utter dominance mixed with early finishes of his top rivals in Cejudo and Benavidez too. One of the biggest shames is Cejudo getting the nod in that tight rematch, as Johnson likely takes out a depleted Dillashaw at 125 before outlasting Marlon Moraes to take the 135 strap. At that point he probably eclipses Jones and GSP too. Margins.
Speaking of Cejudo, he's speaking up Max Holloway for his return fight. I like it. Max has only lost to Volkanovski at 145 in 9 years now. If Cejudo beats him he soars up the GOAT list himself and gets a legitimate title shot at a third weight class. Holloway would be a big favourite given the size, and for him I think it's a smarter play than grafting against the lesser known guys in the top 10 in the hope Volk goes 0-2 against somebody so he can get another shot. As a fight fan I do want Holloway vs. Gaethje, Oliviera 2, Ferguson, Chandler etc at 155 though, fun fucking fights.
Last edited by Fanny Batter; August 27th, 2022 at 7:20 AM.
It's a shame that Cejudo became a joke and will never been given any real props. He's never in the discussion. I'd love to see him come back and Max destroy him.
Must be something in the atmosphere over the last few days lol.
Who does everyone have for tomorrow? Heart pulling for Nate Diaz as I'm sick of Khamzat and his nonsense. Which is hilarious when you think about Nate Diaz and HIS nonsense. I'm also rooting for Tony Ferguson. First fight at 170 in 10+ years, fighting a pretty solid guy but father time is what it is.
Should be a good card. On paper it's pretty "meh" because a lot of the fighters are still making a name and haven't had many big fights but I bet it turns out very good.
I feel like Khamzat definitely should smash Diaz, but after Usman/Edwards who knows. Key for Diaz could be to get Khamzat to fight emotional just like he did against Burns, a Stockton Slap or two could probably fix that..
I have a feeling the Leech stops Ferguson.
Khamzat weighed in at 178.5. Wtf..?
Diaz probably refuses to fight him now.
Diaz against Tony most likely. Nate makes more money taking it on a day's notice, does more buys and has more chance of leaving on a win. What a turnaround.
I almost on the verge of ordering the ppv if they announce Diaz v. Ferguson. That's a dream fight and much more interesting than Khamzat. I'm just not a fan of this guy. I don't like the antics. I'm not really a Diaz fan either solely because of the bullshit. Mumbling about being gangsters, they talk way too much.
Diaz/Ferguson and maybe Khamzat/Holland..
Yeah Diaz vs. Ferguson is a fun fucking fight. Khamzat vs. Holland would be fun too. D Rod and Leech are great fighters but wouldn't bring the crazy out of Holland and Tony. This way would be crackers.
I read that Khamzat front kicked Holland backstage before the press conference from hell so there's a little extra oumph behind that fight.
Didn't Holland weigh in at 170?
Yeah, but I'm guessing he's more likely to accept Khamzat weighing 178.5 than Diaz, especially if they double his paycheck or something. Holland just came down from MW while Diaz is a natural LW so the size difference wouldn't be as huge either.
Just fantasy booking at the moment though.
/Ariel Helwani says that there are some medical issues with Khamzat, unclear what though.
Last edited by OD50; September 9th, 2022 at 3:32 PM.
Looking at swedish newssite Expressen right now and they say that the UFC is working on Tony/Nate and that Chimaev is most likely off the card.
https://www.expressen.se/sport/mma/j...r-jattefajten/
I saw a headline, didn't care to read it, that Khamzat is now blaming Till for the weight cut.......Now maybe he was just joking but I saw it in passing on Facebook and just shook my head.
Yeah he has a medical condition it's called wankster. In America that means fake ass gangster.
I just wasn't sure if they would even give Khamzat a fight. Honestly he doesn't deserve. You're going to cater to this guy because he fucked up your weekend? I say keep him off, give 20% of what he would've made to Nate and book him on the prelims next month.
So, Uncle OD's fantasy booking wasn't that bad.. Nate/Tony, Khamzat/Holland and Leech/Rodriguez are the new top fights. That Holland/Rodriguez was already scheduled for a 180 catchweight works out perfectly with Khamzat coming in at 178.5. Pretty crazy coincidence. Leech made 170.5 and will fight an opponent who came in at 179, so he'll face a much lesser name that is also bigger and possibly more dangerous. Hopefully he'll get something a little extra for it. Poor guy didn't even get to show off his amazing suit at the cancelled press conference.
I was fairly confident in picking Khamzat > Diaz and Leech > Ferguson but these new fights are actually a lot more difficult to predict and the betting lines are much more even now as well. I wouldn't even be all that shocked if Holland upsets Chimaev to be honest after all the shit that's been going down. Chimaev has more resembled an 18-year old on his first trip to Ibiza than a pro fighter this week.
Guys that make the company money are rarely put on the bench or the prelims, whether it's fair or not. Like him or not, Khamzat is probably quite a big star for the UFC as of now. If he loses in spectacular fashion tonight maybe that will change.
/Khamzat vs. Holland is five rounds btw.
Last edited by OD50; September 10th, 2022 at 4:00 AM.
Yeah, it was a shit show that's ended up turning out better. I'm sure the Embedded will do well today and they'll do good business when it was just a squash match before. Diaz vs. Tony is going to be all world's of fun, and Holland will at least be more of a size threat to Chimaev than Diaz was.
Diaz vs. the winner of Jake Paul vs. Anderson Silva is going to make that man rich. Especially if he wins a war and gets to cut a leaving promo. Two days ago he was set up to fail, putting over the new guy in a maligned PPV headliner, then all of a sudden it kicks off with the press conference brawl, interest goes through the roof, his opponent misses weight, he makes weight, then he ends up getting an easier, bigger fight on a more hyped card than ever. Their intention was to dim his star on the way out, and now most likely they've unintentionally given him a platform to become a megastar. If he wins, the leverage he'll have will be monumental. They know Conor vs. Diaz 3 would do 2.5-3 million buys. Their partners at ESPN are essentially going to force them to stay in the Nate Diaz business and the dozy fuckers going to end up a 9 figure millionaire
Last edited by Fanny Batter; September 10th, 2022 at 5:29 AM.
I don't think it's a stretch to think that the plan was to build up Khamzat by having him smash Diaz on his way out of the UFC, but now Diaz actually has a fair shot of going out an ever bigger star if he can pull out a vintage performance against a most likely very faded version of Tony Ferguson. So props to Dana for that, even though he was mostly concerned with them PPV dollars I guess.
I would have Khamzat/Diaz at something like 80/20 or even 85/15 but Diaz/Ferguson might be about 50/50'ish.
I'd agree that the new card is more interesting and better matched than the original, how often can we say that..?
/Odds right now are Ferguson at -135 and Diaz at +115. Before the switcharoo Khamzat was a -1100 favorite to Diaz at +700.
Last edited by OD50; September 10th, 2022 at 6:42 AM.
Say what you will of Khamzat Chimaev's antics but the man is a beast.
Got to think they'll make Chimaev vs. Covington next. He's an animal. You can't deny Colby a title shot if he beats that guy, yet I'd favour Khamzat significantly. Got to make that weight though. At this stage it feels like the eventual title fight is a coronation, like Jon Jones'. That's not a slight on Leon, Kamaru or Colby either. He's just that much of a threat.
Good for Nate. If Jake Paul beats Anderson, him and Nate would be a gigantic event, regardless of how lower level that fight is in the sport of boxing. Legit does a million plus, maybe an understatement too. Then if Nate wins he might actually be the A side against Conor! Crazy. That career turnaround. From losing the first round to Michael Johnson to this. He probably bows out of the sport if he goes 50/50 in those last 2 rounds with MJ. He was checked out. Now this.
Felt bad for Tony, but he's on the retirement run. At least he wasn't brutally finished. If he fights again, do not give him anybody particularly good. Matt Brown sounds a fun time. Or Ruthless Robbie. Legend fights. Or even Jim Miller if neither can be arsed to cut to 55 anymore, sounds like a good time. In fact yeah go for that. Give Jim a warm up while Tony heals up, chuck it on as a prelim headliner and a good time will be had.
Tony Ferguson/Robbie Lawler sounds pretty good to me. Good fight for both guys at this stage.
I'm starting to think about a future fight between Khamzat and Shavkat Rakhmonov, I have a feeling that could be bonkers. Combined 28-0 record with 27 finishes, 14 KO/13 SUB, 17 first round finishes. Shavkat is probably the better striker (easily the better kickboxer, boxing might be more close), Khamzat the better wrestler while submission game is maybe 50/50(?).
/Khamzat vs. Colby is the logical next fight though.
Last edited by OD50; September 11th, 2022 at 1:51 PM.
Yeah, in an ideal world (for the UFC) that would be the path - Usman > Leon, Khamzat > Colby, Khamzat > Usman, with Shavkat racking 3 finishes up against maybe Geoff Neal, Sean Brady and either Burns, Colby or Leon. At that point it's 14-0 vs. 19-0, for the welterweight title, 32 out of 33 wins by finish. The top unbeaten clash in the history of the sport. Some ways to get there though, and some weight cuts too.
Yeah, Robbie's got Ponz next which is a dumb fight. Gets picked apart and finished. If he fights again after, Ferguson is the way to go. Fuck it, old man tournament culminating at UFC 300 - RDA, Miller, Guida, Ferguson, Lawler, Brown, Lauzon, Barboza, Trinaldo, Means, McGee, Wonderboy, Masvidal, Magny, MJ, Green.
Khamzat needs to fight at 185. Outside of the UFC. If he's a star, show me the proof.
How about that upkick liver shot from Aldana? I told myself "She's going to say she practices that kick all the time" For once I would just like someone to say no I jus start throwing shit and it landed lol. Not saying she's a liar I just think fighters don't want to sound sloppy lol
Yeah no chance fighters specifically train to land liver upkicks. I'd say given she's a striker she practices upkicks, but to say specifically that she was looking to connect to the liver is ridiculous. She looked like she thought she'd fouled her!
Yadong vs. Sandman tonight. Sandhagen I think is elite and gets the win. He's a smart guy and a couple of adjustments away from a title run. Was ultra competitive with Yan early and the Dillashaw decision was a coin flip.
Speaking of weight misses, Aspen Ladd missed weight for the third time in the UFC, fourth overall.
Jose Aldo retires. Shame he went out in a dull fight, but I don't mind it - good performances lead to renewed hope and that only ends one way eventually. Gets out with money and health. Great career. Top 10 of all time for me.
Without putting a ton of thought into it I gotta imagine there's not a fight I'd rather see a do-over of more than Aldo & McGregor. Absolute shame for Aldo and fight fans in general the way that one played out.
And I don't say that to say that Jose would've necessarily taken it, just that the game was cruelly robbed of getting to watch those two really exchange in their heydays.
Nonetheless hats off to a badmotherfucker and a legend in the sport..
Yeah a shame he didn't get another shot at it. Featherweight Conor is a what if in general. It helps his legacy that he never got beat at the weight, but he'd be a top tier legend if he put another year in and fought the Aldo rematch, Edgar and prime Holloway. The Diaz fights cemented his superstar status but took away from his sporting accomplishments. Then again, I genuinely think he'd have been a three weight champion in 2016. Weight drained RDA and war torn Ruthless were there for the taking, as shown by their first round KO losses. Staying at featherweight would have been the tougher play than doing that.
I always felt like Aldo v. McGregor 1 was a lot like JDS v. Cain V 1. And then we saw what happened when those two heavyweights rematched twice. I'm not saying Aldo would've beat the shit out of McGregor in the rematch like Cain did JDS, but for Dana, McGregor, and the UFC to be so open and shut about a rematch was puzzling. I get they were negative about the fight falling apart the first time but McGregor has only fought a handful of times since that win.
I picked Aldo to beat McGregor and I honestly still think he was the overall better fighter, even at that time against a motivated, prime McGregor. I would love to see what would have transpired over five rounds if Aldo hadn't fallen for Conor's mind tricks and rushed in like a buffoon.
Unexpected shit happens in fighting though and the more complete fighter doesn't always win.
Talk of Lyoto Machida coming back for a double retirement with Shogun in Brazil in January. What a highly logical fight for both to go out on. Would surely be the first trilogy to span three decades as well?
Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie fought in 1993, 1995 and 2016, I think that must be some kind of record..
So it looks like they're doing back to back to back homecoming PPV's to start next year - Brazil for Fig/Moreno 4 and I'm guessing Nunes, Australia for Volkanovski (and presumably Bobby Knuckles), and London/Cardiff for Leon vs. Usman 3. Jon Jones return pushed even further back!
Is there still intrigue with Jones? I'm a big fan but holy shit it feels like this is all for nothing. I'm waiting for some news headline that says he fucked up again and the last 2-3 years were pointless.
We've probably discussed this, but is Jones the guy we look at who truly wasted his potential? It's weird saying that considering what he's accomplished. But he's only fought 7 times in 7 years. The run-ins with the law, the failed drug tests. I used to think McGregor wasted some key years but he made so much $$$ that it doesn't really matter in prizefighting/
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