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Thread: UFC - Ultimate Fighting Championship

  1. #12401
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    An incredible career. IF that's the end. Which we've heard it before a million times from Frank Shamrock to GSP to even a few months ago Conor McGregor. We'll see if Cejudo and Khabib are done.

    If this is it, damn impressive. Hard to argue he's not the best LW ever. The division has been deep since day one and will continue to have that extreme depth. That's why I don't see Khabib staying retired for long. Then again I could be wrong, he's not built mentally like a lot of other fighters in comparison who have said they're calling it a day.

  2. #12402
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    usa
    Khabib is a man of honor, his mom doesn't want him to fight again without his dad, he won't.

  3. #12403
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Agreed. Life is complex though, if she sees him moping about missing the competition she might encourage him to return. Would absolutely be her call though, as you say a man of honour.

  4. #12404
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Khabib is a man of honor, his mom doesn't want him to fight again without his dad, he won't.
    We're 3 days removed from his comment let's just hold off before claiming someone is truly a man of their word. This is the same guy who said he wasn't like McGregor, then proceeded to embarrass himself, the sport, and everyone who supports him by jumping over the cage and giving Dildo Dannis the flying Eagle front kick.

  5. #12405
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    It wasn't any more embarrassing than throwing a dolly at a bus.

  6. #12406
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    It wasn't any more embarrassing than throwing a dolly at a bus.
    No, what happened after that fight was 100x worse. Mainly because of who did it. You have this man of God preaching to the choir about how shit McGregor is and then he goes and does that? Wasn't the fucking governor in the crowd?

    What Conor did was embarrassing but it wasn't even remotely close to what Khabib did.

  7. #12407
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Khabib let Conor get under his skin. And I'd imagine he regrets it. I also imagine that if Conor had an ounce of decency then their fight would've gone like the rest of Khabib's - a smeshing of his opponent and full on sportsmanship and honor. It's unfortunate he allowed himself to be pulled into the mud like that.

    I also imagine it's possible that he returns one day. But it would have to be with his mother's blessing and only with that. And I still doubt that, certainly not anytime soon. He's already spoken about how to get Makhachev prepared for a run at the title he left behind, and has his sights set on coaching and growing his community. He's clearly not interested in empty fame and needless excess of money. But maybe a bit of time passes and the wounds of his fathers' passing heal a bit and a proper challenge emerges in his absence - I suppose it's not impossible at some point.

  8. #12408
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    After he beat Conor who was he calling out? Mayweather....

    I think he'll come back but he could prove us wrong and stay retired. I'd have to go back and read/listen but did he actually say he was retired? He kept specifically saying it was his last fight in the UFC. Maybe he's just stepping away from the UFC and he'll get his dream match with Mayweather.

  9. #12409
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Khabib Nurmagomedov Reveals The Real Reason Why Floyd Mayweather Mega-Fight Fell Through

    I think he still had Conor under his skin in the immediate aftermath and wanted to attempt to one up him as best he could, but it ultimately wasn't all worth it. He probably began to eventually move on from the whole McGregor toxicity.

  10. #12410
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    It's interesting to take a look at the handful or so fighters that are generally talked about in the overall GOAT convo, and to look at where they were at in their careers had they left their gloves behind at just after turning 32 as Khabib did, and to consider in that span how many times they were beaten or even really challenged..

    George St. Pierre -- 25-2 - finished vs Hughes and Serra, debatable decisions vs Penn and Hendricks

    Jon Jones -- 25-1* - tight armbar vs Vitor, close decisions vs Gus and Thiago, and busted for PEDs

    Fedor Emelianenko -- 29-1* - rocked hard against Fujita and Randleman, closely contested decision over Lindland

    Khabib Nurmagomedov -- 29-0 - close decision vs Tibau, stunned by Johnson, tight guillotine vs Poirier

    Anderson Silva -- 20-4* - decision loss to Azaredo, submission losses to Takase and Chonan, hail mary win after losing deep to Sonnen

    Demetrious Johnson -- 27-3-1 - decision losses to Pickett and Cruz and Cejudo, draw vs McCall

    Jose Aldo -- 27-4 - submission loss to Azevado, knockout losses to Conor and Max twice

    (asterisks for losses that technically happened but aren't really viewed as having been beaten)

    ..and to consider that there wasn't much in the way of really improving their legacies after this point in their careers. GSP got the big win against Bisping, that's a good one. Silva and Fedor each had a couple big wins before the wheels fell off completely. DJ's gone into MMA obscurity. Jones had a win that very many people think he actually lost. And Aldo never recovered after Holloway.

    Taking into account who they defeated versus how much they were challenged or beaten I've come to slot Khabib in 4th on the all-time GOAT ranking. To go so unthreatened for as long as he did is ridiculous, but he only had so many really big pelts on his wall. Jones and GSP just stood their ground so firmly through so many title defenses. Fedor's unbeaten run at freaking HW is so very remarkable. Those are the big accomplishments that keep them just above The Eagle for me.

  11. #12411
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I want to have the mentality that everyone is on some shit just not everyone has been caught so that way I can give Jones the nod as the GOAT. I think I have to go with your top 4. GSP, Jones, Fedor, Khabib.

    I think Jones makes a really good point about himself and GSP with the level of talent they fought for so long and the # of title defenses, I do think that puts you in a different bracket. What I wanted to see from Khabib was a fight with Tony, rematch with at least DP and McGregor, move up to 170 on and off.

    If this is it, what a career.

  12. #12412
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    I don't mind him not going to 170. That'd be super interesting, but I don't think it's necessary for GOAT status.

    What would've been super cool would be if the original Khabib/Ferg fight had happend in 2016 and he'd won and he perhaps we see him face Anthony Pettis and/or Eddie Alvarez for that part of his career instead of Darrell Horcher and Michael Johnson. He defeats them on top of what we got and it might be enough to put him at the very top.

    But ah well, we got what we got and best LW ever, top 4 all-time, and retired as the champ and p4p #1. Talk about honoring his father, yikes..

  13. #12413
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Speaking of GOAT's, Anderson Silva making the walk one last time on Saturday. At least the match up with Uriah Hall should be fun enough like that fight against Adesanya. Hall is enough of a mental case to let Anderson into the fight. I like Uriah enough but would love the Spider to ride off into the sunset with a win.

  14. #12414
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    Sounds like it's just his last UFC fight, not his last fight period.

    I just hope he doesn't go to BKFC.

  15. #12415
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Speaking of GOAT's, Anderson Silva making the walk one last time on Saturday. At least the match up with Uriah Hall should be fun enough like that fight against Adesanya. Hall is enough of a mental case to let Anderson into the fight. I like Uriah enough but would love the Spider to ride off into the sunset with a win.
    My personal GOAT, Anderson Silva, prime Anderson Silva was the most entertaining, dangerous dude in all of MMA. Hall came out TUF as one of many next Anderson Silva's (Remember when Dana called Philipe Nover the next Anderson? He also said Rose Namajunas was the female Anderson....) I do not want to see Anderson knocked the fuck out of orbit, I want him to destroy Hall and call it a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bert View Post
    Sounds like it's just his last UFC fight, not his last fight period.

    I just hope he doesn't go to BKFC.
    It should be his last regardless. God damn if he went to do bare knuckle he'd be stupid as fuck.

  16. #12416
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    He's a fighter. He's got himself in fight shape and fancies himself as a force again. I imagine if he gets beat he'll retire, but a win will have him fancying another go of it I'm sure. It's all he has known most of his life.

  17. #12417
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    I just don't think he wants to have his head in a space where being done is the prime real estate. He's focused on competing and re-evaluating after. Even if he knows it should be farewell he also knows it isn't necessary to sign off just yet. He's a life-long fighter, it shouldn't be a surprise he doesn't want to think so much about not fighting.

    Genuinely hope he doesn't go out on his back.

  18. #12418
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Maybe he should get decapitated so he can recognize he's not the guy he was 10 years ago. Sadly it's better said than done. At 45 and 1 win that wasn't that great in fuck knows how many years....I guess look at BJ. I'm sure he'll fight again too. I'm sure Ken Shamrock is about to take a fight in Bellator.

  19. #12419
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Lawler is out of his fight with Mike Perry which sucks because I was really hoping Lawler would end this man's career for us. Perry is calling for Hazmat to fill the slot, at Middleweight.

  20. #12420
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I'd take Condit and Perry if he's up for the turnaround.

  21. #12421
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Well, at least he didn't die. Lovely moment after, Uriah is a good guy.

  22. #12422
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    Dana said Izzy is moving up to fight Jan.

  23. #12423
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    I respect tremendously Izzy the mmartist, but will be rooting heavily for Jan to take him out.

  24. #12424
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    How stupid. I understand Adesanya doesn't have a challenger at the moment, but there's literally a main event fight in 6 days that will produce as legitimate a challenger at 205 as you can get. The winner will absolutely be ranked #1, and will either be on a 5 fight win streak or have a very recent knockout victory against the champ. For Adesanya, just keep him busy if you want at 205 non title like they did with Anderson back in the day. Nice 3 rounder against Anthony Smith or something. Let it marinate. Let Jan solidify himself as champion and legitimise himself as a threat at 205, then you do the fight next year with fans back hopefully.

  25. #12425
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    They want Izzy to move up, win and call out Jon Jones.

  26. #12426
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Whittaker refusing to play the game too. He's just not going to sell himself out for PPV buys, and they know that. Dana interpreting him not being particularly arsed about fighting for a belt in the context of his growing family as not wanting to fight Adesanya is predictably ridiculous.

  27. #12427
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Anderson Silva, absolutely one of the best ever and one of my favorites no doubt. If there was only one fighter's fights who I could watch for the rest of my life, it'd be Anderson's. Especially in his prime. He wasn't doing too bad against Hall, I actually had him winning the fight 2-1 until he got caught. Think about this....all those killers, only finished by strikes twice in his entire career. Insanity.

    Izzy v. Jan makes absolutely no sense. We all know this. To me it feels like Dana doesn't want to even attempt to build something with Jan because what does this do for anyone?

  28. #12428
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Tim Means in against Mike Perry. Got some good hands, hopefully wrecks him but seems increasingly fragile now unfortunately.

  29. #12429
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Tim Means in against Mike Perry. Got some good hands, hopefully wrecks him but seems increasingly fragile now unfortunately.
    Tim Means is in the Cerrone realm right now where I think he fucks up Mike Perry pretty easily but not without taking some shots. Perry is just such a fucking clown I can't support anything involving him including this card.

  30. #12430
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Would love to see an action fighter tournament at welterweight - Lawler, Means, Brown, Condit, Cerrone, Pettis, Price and Periera. All great value to watch generally.

  31. #12431
    Midcarder JuveLeo's Avatar
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    I really hope Anderson does not continue to fight. It pains me to watch this shit. So many of my all time favorites like Chuck, BJ Penn, Shogun and Anderson stayed in the game too long that it's tarnished their legacies. No disrespect to Hall, but The Spider would have killed him in about 2 minutes 8 years ago.

  32. #12432
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuveLeo View Post
    I really hope Anderson does not continue to fight. It pains me to watch this shit. So many of my all time favorites like Chuck, BJ Penn, Shogun and Anderson stayed in the game too long that it's tarnished their legacies. No disrespect to Hall, but The Spider would have killed him in about 2 minutes 8 years ago.
    Yeah man Anderson was winning the fight imo so that shows you just how much he's changed. Those 2 Weidman losses were HUGE to his mental I think. He wasn't dancing around as much, and he was more tentative to engage unless it was a sure thing. He definitely held back on leg kicks lol.

    The fact he's 1-8 in his last 9 and that 1 win was a questionable decision as it is really fucking sucks. You'd like to see maybe 1 or 2 losses on the way out but damn, dude just never got it rolling. I'll say this, in those 8 losses, more often than not he at least looked like he belonged. He wasn't getting smoked in a round, it was decisions, injuries, or a fluke. That was another issue....Had he lost like he did to Hall maybe 4-5 years ago he might've stepped away.

  33. #12433
    Midcarder JuveLeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Yeah man Anderson was winning the fight imo so that shows you just how much he's changed. Those 2 Weidman losses were HUGE to his mental I think. He wasn't dancing around as much, and he was more tentative to engage unless it was a sure thing. He definitely held back on leg kicks lol.

    The fact he's 1-8 in his last 9 and that 1 win was a questionable decision as it is really fucking sucks. You'd like to see maybe 1 or 2 losses on the way out but damn, dude just never got it rolling. I'll say this, in those 8 losses, more often than not he at least looked like he belonged. He wasn't getting smoked in a round, it was decisions, injuries, or a fluke. That was another issue....Had he lost like he did to Hall maybe 4-5 years ago he might've stepped away.
    I agree. He's looked good in most of his losses. Obviously didn't look like prime Silva, but good enough to win some of those fights. The main issue is his chin. He cannot take a punch like he used to and that's usually what occurs after you've received you're first KO. He's just more susceptible to getting knocked out or rocked easily now. The same thing happened to all the other guys i mentioned earlier.

  34. #12434
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuveLeo View Post
    I agree. He's looked good in most of his losses. Obviously didn't look like prime Silva, but good enough to win some of those fights. The main issue is his chin. He cannot take a punch like he used to and that's usually what occurs after you've received you're first KO. He's just more susceptible to getting knocked out or rocked easily now. The same thing happened to all the other guys i mentioned earlier.
    That's the nice thing about Anderson compared to someone like Chuck is that Anderson's losses were mostly decisions or fucked up injury in the UFC. He wasn't getting knocked out left and right. I mean we saw him get wobbled against Chael once, we saw Bisping catch him real quick and like I said, imo he was beating Hall. He just got caught but I still wish he had called it a day a few years ago.

  35. #12435
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    The UFC saying that he has a fight left on his contract, but that they won’t give him a fight, this effectively forcing him into retirement is mercenary behaviour. They should immediately release him if they don’t want to book him anymore. Not giving him fights, but stopping him from making money for himself or any of their competitors is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    It astounds me that a company like the UFC don't have any smarter ideas on how to book someone with name value, but who is no longer likely to challenge for a title. It's like they think you're either a title contender, or you're fodder for a young up and comer and nothing in between. It seems mad that Vitor Belfort of all people had a better idea. Even Conor McGregor has the right idea when commenting on whether Silva should retire, when he said that he just needs to fight the right level of competition. Silva isn't top 10 anymore, don't book him against anyone near the top 10. He still has some good skills, he can still be in exciting fights against people around his age and level, with some name value. There is nothing wrong with the idea of a veterans tour. They can probably still draw some eyes on a main card too. They just aren't willing to entertain the idea of paying decent money to people who aren't working up the title fight ladder anymore.

  36. #12436
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I don't know. @Percussion what are your thoughts about what Mik is saying? The reason I ask you is because you're all about rankings so how do you feel about a "veterans tour" like they do with golf for example? I don't know if they do this in other sports i.e. baseball, boxing, basketball, where the old timers who still have name value compete in the NBA. I mean, I'd love to see Jordan at 50+ but I understand why we don't despite his name being something that would easily draw millions to the product.

    I'm torn. On one hand, the UFC has shown that there are times where rankings ultimately don't matter for a particular fight. On the other, more often than not their fights are made with the intention of someone climbing the ranks despite them being past their prime. MMA is a weird sport like that, especially if you were big into Pride where half the time the champions were fighting dudes with 0-20 records or were wrestlers in New Japan, something odd but mainly done to draw thousands of fans to a sell out 80,000+ arena.

  37. #12437
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Agreed. Anderson vs. Vitor 2, for example, would still be a fight people would want to see over, well, literally any middleweight fight that doesn't feature Israel Adesanya. Name value matters, and beating a star doesn't make one a star. We've seen it happen with a guy like Myles Jury - fed Gomi and Diego, but he's a boring kid that nobody wants to watch. So you harm the veteran's value for no benefit. Once a legend is clearly out of contention, book them in fun fights, or fights they can win and look good doing it. Anderson would still beat, I don't know, Darren Stewart or Jack Marshman, match him with them and not a talent like Hall.

  38. #12438
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I don't know. @Percussion what are your thoughts about what Mik is saying? The reason I ask you is because you're all about rankings so how do you feel about a "veterans tour" like they do with golf for example? I don't know if they do this in other sports i.e. baseball, boxing, basketball, where the old timers who still have name value compete in the NBA. I mean, I'd love to see Jordan at 50+ but I understand why we don't despite his name being something that would easily draw millions to the product.

    I'm torn. On one hand, the UFC has shown that there are times where rankings ultimately don't matter for a particular fight. On the other, more often than not their fights are made with the intention of someone climbing the ranks despite them being past their prime. MMA is a weird sport like that, especially if you were big into Pride where half the time the champions were fighting dudes with 0-20 records or were wrestlers in New Japan, something odd but mainly done to draw thousands of fans to a sell out 80,000+ arena.
    I don't know how much a thing like that would draw overall, besides a very non-contact sport like golf it's just not a thing in sports, but I know I'd be lukewarm to watching it at best. And I'm sure I'm not the person to gauge that kind of thing on either because like most of us I'll watch most anything involving marquee combat sports names. Maybe the audience at large would find Anderson vs Shogun appealing, idk. I think as a one off kind of thing it has a value, but if it were done on a regular basis with aging vets I'm not sure it would hold itself up after some time.

    I do agree though that it's not any of UFC's business to decide that for Silva or anyone else. If I were in Dana's position I'd be very, very hesitant to book him any more. I don't know how much I'd want to contribute any further to his risk of CTE rising any more unnecessarily, and certainly not for a little more money or to keep that money from another promoter. That said, that should be entirely for Anderson and his family/camp to weigh the pros/cons of. I believe unless there are injury considerations they have a limited amount of time to offer fights under contract before said contract expires, but I'm just pulling from memory there, could very well be wrong. Either way I can't imagine they can legally get away with it - nor should they - if Silva were wanting to go that route.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    I don't know how much a thing like that would draw overall, besides a very non-contact sport like golf it's just not a thing in sports, but I know I'd be lukewarm to watching it at best. And I'm sure I'm not the person to gauge that kind of thing on either because like most of us I'll watch most anything involving marquee combat sports names. Maybe the audience at large would find Anderson vs Shogun appealing, idk. I think as a one off kind of thing it has a value, but if it were done on a regular basis with aging vets I'm not sure it would hold itself up after some time.

    I do agree though that it's not any of UFC's business to decide that for Silva or anyone else. If I were in Dana's position I'd be very, very hesitant to book him any more. I don't know how much I'd want to contribute any further to his risk of CTE rising any more unnecessarily, and certainly not for a little more money or to keep that money from another promoter. That said, that should be entirely for Anderson and his family/camp to weigh the pros/cons of. I believe unless there are injury considerations they have a limited amount of time to offer fights under contract before said contract expires, but I'm just pulling from memory there, could very well be wrong. Either way I can't imagine they can legally get away with it - nor should they - if Silva were wanting to go that route.
    For me I wouldn't mind seeing "superfights" between vets here and there but not as an actual consistent "division" I guess.

    I think this is just something that happens with fans who see their favorites age and go down one by one. With so many fighters and cards these days it's hard to sink your teeth into fighters like you used to back in 2005-2010. The funny part is so many fans want this to happen but when Bellator makes it happen they get shit on for it lol. "How dare you put Fedor v. Frank Mir on a card!!!" But if that was the UFC they'd be like "Yeah that's awesome we're finally getting Frank Mir v. Fedor!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Agreed. Anderson vs. Vitor 2, for example, would still be a fight people would want to see over, well, literally any middleweight fight that doesn't feature Israel Adesanya. Name value matters, and beating a star doesn't make one a star. We've seen it happen with a guy like Myles Jury - fed Gomi and Diego, but he's a boring kid that nobody wants to watch. So you harm the veteran's value for no benefit. Once a legend is clearly out of contention, book them in fun fights, or fights they can win and look good doing it. Anderson would still beat, I don't know, Darren Stewart or Jack Marshman, match him with them and not a talent like Hall.
    They knew Anderson was losing because the guy sadly hasn't won a fight in forever despite his decision win over Brunson (which as a die hard Silva fan I found that win to be questionable). You put him in there with Darren Stewart and dude knocks out Anderson you just served up Silva to a complete nobody. At least with Hall it was going to be someone the UFC could look at it and go "Win lose or draw this will be a good fight" Beating Anderson Silva does zero for anyone at this stage because of his 1-8 record since losing the title to Weidman. It's like when BJ Penn would get a fight it's like why? 9 fight losing streak, who does this help?

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    Imagine you get fun veteran fights round robin between the likes of Condit, Donald Cowboy, Lawler, Matt Brown, Tim Means and Cowboy Oliveira. You don't need to make them fodder for up and coming fighters. You don't need to have them go for a title. You can give them favourable match ups against similar level competition with similar wear on the tyres. It's not going to add 1 million buy rates to a card, but it would strengthen these shithouse cards that they're putting out with a main event and nothing underneath it.

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    I'm just thinking about when they actually gave a legend a scrub, Big Nog against Dave Herman, and he tapped him. I just think there's levels to it, and Anderson's level is probably good enough to pick apart a brawler even still. Hall is talented. Brunson was talented. Jared, Israel, Bisping, Cormier. I genuinely think Silva is still a top 50 fighter, and deserves a place on the roster, but he should be fighting guys at his level. Even Penn was matched too high throughout, he'd stand a chance still if he fought a guy like Frank Camacho or the dude Alex Hernandez destroyed Saturday. Levels.

    Spot on with that round robin idea. Same at most divisions - lightweight could be Miller, Lauzon, Guida, MJ, Lando, Green, Yancy and Makdessi, fun fights all round, some rematches, but fighters true fans know and appreciate.
    Last edited by Fanny Batter; November 3rd, 2020 at 5:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    For me I wouldn't mind seeing "superfights" between vets here and there but not as an actual consistent "division" I guess.

    I think this is just something that happens with fans who see their favorites age and go down one by one. With so many fighters and cards these days it's hard to sink your teeth into fighters like you used to back in 2005-2010. The funny part is so many fans want this to happen but when Bellator makes it happen they get shit on for it lol. "How dare you put Fedor v. Frank Mir on a card!!!" But if that was the UFC they'd be like "Yeah that's awesome we're finally getting Frank Mir v. Fedor!"
    I certainly agree with the odd matchup here or there with aging stars or versus non-lethal top dogs as opposed to a dedicated 'Masters' division.

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    Quite like the card on Saturday. Santos vs. Glover is a proper main event. Shine taken off it by announcing Jan vs. Izzy before, particularly with Jones hovering about. He'd come back for the winner of that, Adesanya for obvious reasons, Jan because he'd have won a super fight against a star. So essentially, the winner of this likely has to stay busy before they get a shot anyway. Alas, the fight is 2 action heroes throwing down, going to finish inside 5 I'm sure. Leaning Maretta being the younger, faster man.

    Good prospects on win streaks littered throughout - Boser, Barcelos, Allen, Xiaonan, Chikadze and Romanov all figure to be people of interest with wins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Quite like the card on Saturday. Santos vs. Glover is a proper main event. Shine taken off it by announcing Jan vs. Izzy before, particularly with Jones hovering about. He'd come back for the winner of that, Adesanya for obvious reasons, Jan because he'd have won a super fight against a star. So essentially, the winner of this likely has to stay busy before they get a shot anyway. Alas, the fight is 2 action heroes throwing down, going to finish inside 5 I'm sure. Leaning Maretta being the younger, faster man.

    Good prospects on win streaks littered throughout - Boser, Barcelos, Allen, Xiaonan, Chikadze and Romanov all figure to be people of interest with wins.
    Yeah, the whole Izzy-Jan bullshit fight really fucked Santos and Glover. Glover with a win is on a solid 5-fight winning streak. Dude is so underrated and shouldn't be kicking ass at 41 but here he is.

    I'm hoping Claudia gets a W here. She's one of my favorite female fighters and I'd love to see her get a title shot in 2021.

    You're right about the "prospects" but they're fighting people who can fuck all that up easily. People like Elkins, Arlovski, Claudia, these fighters who still manage to win one, lose the next, win one, lose the next. Fucks everything up lol.

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    Glover is a complete badass. Hurt badly twice but found a way to get it to his wheelhouse and pull out the win. They need to see sense with this Adesanya fight. OG fans want to see Glover get that title shot. Bobby Knuckles has earned his rematch at Adesanya. Put them on the same card and match the winners, easy. Both divisions are in transition contender wise after that while they build up Rakic, Jiri, Till etc so by all means do a super fight at that point, but let's have both undisputed #1 contenders get their shots.

    For me, the champions who aren't established as the best in the weight class shouldn't be contesting "super fights". GSP vs. Penn, Cormier vs. Miocic (given Jones' absence) and Cyborg vs. Nunes were legit, the others have been disputable. I don't think anybody would argue that when Alvarez was champion, Khabib and Tony were better but were inactive at the wrong time. Cejudo scraped past Mighty Mouse and had lost to Benavidez a couple of years prior. Bisping was a blind man who had life or deaths in each of his prior 5 or so fights besides his title win, and everybody would have picked Yoel, Robert, Luke, Jacare and Gastelum over him, minimum, when he fought GSP. I feel the same way about Jan here. Maybe he is the best. Let him prove it before fighting another champion. Especially as he won a vacant title.

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    I think it's a career resurgence that is Lawler-esque. Give him the title shot, let Adesanya sit it out for a bit and face the winner. He's due a little break.

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    Jan v. Glover should happen next.

    Izzy v. Whittaker 2 isn't a horrible fight to make. The problem for me is that Whittaker is not reliable. So if you make that fight, you have to have a back up plan because he's probably getting injured.

    We've thrown out names for Izzy to test himself at 205 if he absolutely has to. Anthony Smith, Oezdemir, Johnny Walker, anyone that's pretty much ranked in the 8-15 range. They want to replicate Anderson this is the way to do it. I'll be honest....IF Jones takes the bait he's a fool. It's a lose-lose and we don't need WWE drama sabotaging 2-3 divisions. I want to see Jones at Heavyweight, fuck this twitter bullshit.

    Seriously....Who is sitting there juggling which path Jones should honestly take? Dude is without a shadow of a doubt the GOAT LHW. Twitter beef shouldn't trump legacy. He has the potential to possibly be the greatest of all time. No LHW has ever moved up to HW and had any true success. Save your Randy Couture arguments, he started out as HW And he would get slaughtered by Jones idc what era you bring to the table.

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    Straight vet gangsta shit from Glover. Pop vs know how. Made Santos look like a novice.

    Tex deserves his shot and Izzy can either rematch Bobby or, and I agree with Nash here, take on a top 10 or so LHW for shits and giggles. Make his LHW attempt actually substantial.

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    Looks like Makhachev vs Dos Anjos is turning into the new Khabib vs Ferguson.

    Poeple also trying to give Chandler grief for not stepping in to face Rafael, including Rafael, but I don't blame him it's hella last second, and for a debut of all things.

    Leaves the event this weekend completely bare though.

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    They can surely afford to can the event this weekend, though they do like one the week before a PPV to get the last minute hype in. Event was bare WITH that as a main event, relevance-wise anyway. Legit China level show. I think either they bring a fight forward (Shogun vs. Craig or Perry vs. Means?) or get rid.

  52. #12452
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Adesanya isn't going to take a LHW that isn't for the title if he doesn't have to. Why would he?

    Seeing Polish Jan and Old Man Glover destroy the last two guys that Jones went blood and guts with opens interesting questions. Particularly the absolute ease with which Glover took Santos down when Jones attempted it but couldn't manage...is anyone still seriously thinking that there aren't BIG question marks about Jones' pre steroid career?

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    Why did Anderson Silva fight James Irvin, Forrest Griffin, and Stephan Bonnar when none of them were the champion? Why even give Izzy the title shot right now? I get maybe a year from now but it's way too soon.

    I think every fight is different. How did Jones go to a split decision one fight with Gus and then obliterate him a few years later with ease?

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    I think styles make fights. Jones gets his takedowns differently to Glover, a lot of the time based on upper body leverage and using his length. Glover got his takedowns by getting in low and gripping the legs. How many times would Jones put himself in harms way to get the takedowns Glover was landing? That's not to say I don't think Jones has regressed, but his low risk game plan generally means he's not bulldozing into a clinch situation with a powerhouse like Santos when the path of least resistance was attacking the upper body for takedowns if they were to come, with the limbs tied up and not able to let go with elbows. I think if he wasn't so risk averse he'd dump Santos no problems. It's the best part about Jones, his ridiculous fighting IQ, just a shame that's stifled one of the more entertaining fight styles at the same time. He undoubtedly would have been caught at least once without it though, so he'd consider that a fair compromise. The Jones of 2011 was incredible, but I'm not sure that Jones beats 2017 Daniel Cormier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Adesanya isn't going to take a LHW that isn't for the title if he doesn't have to. Why would he?
    It's not a question of what would Izzy do, because of course he'd take the immediate title shot. The question is whether or not it's good for UFC to make the path to a title one of such least resistance. Between guys jumping the queue for gifted title shots and interim titles popping up left and right, and even the silliness of a fake bmf title, does it cheapen the value of being considered a champion? And I get why they do it of course in the short term, but just imo it's a bad long-term strategy to turn prestigious world championships of the biggest combat sports organization into glorified participation trophies.

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    Paul Felder's got a set of bollocks then. Actually prefer Felder vs. RDA over the Islam fight, either gets RDA back in the top 10 straight away or gives Felder a trademark win on less than a week's notice and gets him right back in that mix. I think if Felder wins he's earned the odd man out out of Conor, Dustin, Tony, Justin and Chandler too, so there's every incentive to show up and win here. And for RDA, a win probably means he can shoot up rather than down and avoid the style match up against Islam in favour of Olivera or Hooker, much more appealing fights both in name value and in competition for him. For Islam, he's just going to have to take a Drew Dober or Dariush at this rate and get on with it.

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    Hats off big time to Felder. And I agree full on about this possibly leveling him up, even if just momentarily, from from the Do Bronx, Hooker, CDF crowd.

    This fight has some umph between the two of them. Cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    It's not a question of what would Izzy do, because of course he'd take the immediate title shot. The question is whether or not it's good for UFC to make the path to a title one of such least resistance. Between guys jumping the queue for gifted title shots and interim titles popping up left and right, and even the silliness of a fake bmf title, does it cheapen the value of being considered a champion? And I get why they do it of course in the short term, but just imo it's a bad long-term strategy to turn prestigious world championships of the biggest combat sports organization into glorified participation trophies.
    You know me, I'm pretty flexible with some of the stuff you're talking about but I agree with this post.

    How about this....How about you establish the champion and THEN move to the superfight discussion? This fight is for the extremely short term. Right now MW is not exactly beaming with a strong contender. The guy arguably next in line was absolutely rinsed by Izzy. If anything you let that division sort itself out real quick and let 205 re-establish itself before you gift a title shot to Izzy. That division in the last year lost Jones, Gus, and Cormier.

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    Nunes is out of 256.

    Connor/Dustin at 257 is official.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Paul Felder's got a set of bollocks then. Actually prefer Felder vs. RDA over the Islam fight, either gets RDA back in the top 10 straight away or gives Felder a trademark win on less than a week's notice and gets him right back in that mix. I think if Felder wins he's earned the odd man out out of Conor, Dustin, Tony, Justin and Chandler too, so there's every incentive to show up and win here. And for RDA, a win probably means he can shoot up rather than down and avoid the style match up against Islam in favour of Olivera or Hooker, much more appealing fights both in name value and in competition for him. For Islam, he's just going to have to take a Drew Dober or Dariush at this rate and get on with it.
    I'll be honest....I don't think a win does much for Felder. For one, he's ranked #7 and RDA is #12. RDA was champion 4+ years ago and is 1-4 in his last 5 fights. If he loses, all he did was help RDA establish himself as still somewhat of a threat still. WW is a seriously deep division so I get that anyone in the top 20 are killers but I think too many people are thinking about the RDA of the past and not what we're getting now.

    If Felder wins he basically stays still because how do you justify elevating him in the rankings beating someone 5 below him? If he wins, good for him, but it's not a victory that would make me go "Ok this guy should fight the #3 guy next!" Ballsy move on his part as he's risking quite a bit on a guy who despite being 1-4 is still able to choke a guy out.

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    He doesn't get elevated in the rankings, but his standing in terms of match ups would improve based off winning a main event against a former champion at the weight on 5 days notice. Without this fight he'd be looking down the rankings for a fight due to the loss to Hooker, win this and he's looking at maybe Gaethje or Ferguson next.

    Carlos Condit vs. Matt Brown signed for January. Somebody listens to us! Great fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    He doesn't get elevated in the rankings, but his standing in terms of match ups would improve based off winning a main event against a former champion at the weight on 5 days notice. Without this fight he'd be looking down the rankings for a fight due to the loss to Hooker, win this and he's looking at maybe Gaethje or Ferguson next.

    Carlos Condit vs. Matt Brown signed for January. Somebody listens to us! Great fight.
    Well to be fair, his last fight was the main event.

    I mean he's already looking down the rankings taking this fight. RDA is ranked #12, he's ranked #7. He took this fight because in his mind, and others, RDA being a champion 5 years ago is somehow a positive. If anything it's just a sign of the company man this guy is just like Cerrone. Win or lose, it's going to be a good thing for Felder in the eyes of the UFC. He's already saying he's 50/50 on if he'll even continue regardless if he wins, the only reason he's even really taking this fight is to test himself against someone with the resume of RDA.

    But for me, I don't see it like it's going to elevate him because of who he is fighting I think he'll get elevated because he's a company man willing to do whatever whenever they ask him. I also don't agree with the opinion that a win here would get him in front of a Ferguson or Gaethje. If he did fight those guys it would be more to help them as opposed to helping Felder. Felder beating RDA who's 1-4 in his last 5 which would then make him 1-5, eh.

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    RDA fought a good fight, sustained a pace over 5 rounds and won comfortably. Wasn't a vintage performance by any means but an opponent switch on 5 days notice, going from a southpaw fighter who was going to pressure the grappling exchanges to an orthodox fighter who was more at home on the feet, I'd say it was very impressive. Felder too, showed a lot of skill that was essentially muscle memory considering he's not been fight training much at all this year. Both stocks went up I would say, not spectacularly but certainly both deserve respect from the MMA community. RDA will go high in the rankings for his next fight, he's probably dodged one not having to fight Islam as it might be a tougher match-up for him than the striker-centric top 5.

    Khaos Williams has some power! Both UFC fights knockout wins inside half a minute. Both against legitimate UFC welterweights too. Morono and Alhassan aren't scrubs and he's iced the pair of them. I want him and Baeza next, that's a proper prospects slugfest.

    Sean Strickland looked good too. Usman's record looks better every time one of his former foes fights pretty much. It's easy to forget as a lot of it was on prelims, but he was beating legit competition all the way through his run to the title. Strickland, Edwards, Alves, all great wins that nobody watched. Strickland does look better at middleweight though, looked a bit drawn out at 170 whereas he looks fast and loose at 185. Blew that kid away.

    PPV next weekend then, double title fight for the 2 least revered champions, it's essentially a starter point for Figgy Smalls in becoming an attraction, Shevchenko's style doesn't lend itself to her becoming a draw but Fig can become one, he fights like a berserker. I think the best thing would be him running up 3 defences then getting Mighty Mouse back for a fight with him, that would be ace. Perry vs. Means will be fun, and it's always a love/hate moment to watch Shogun nowadays but I tune in regardless. His draw with Craig was Craig's only fight to go to the scorecards so I'm expecting a finish here, hopefully Shogun dropping him on the counter to run his recent record to 6-1-1, a very respectable post prime considering he's rarely looked good at any point of that stretch. If Craig wins him and Ankalaev makes sense for a rematch considering their last fight, whereas if Shogun wins you surely keep him in the fun fights category. He's still ranked though so probably gets fed to Ryan Spann or something because UFC matchmaking.

  64. #12464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    There's so many good "super fights" in boxing ready to not be made due to the varied promotion and TV deals. Fury vs. Joshua, Canelo against any of those unbeaten champions at 160 and 168, Crawford vs. Spence, Taylor vs. Ramirez, Lopez vs. Davis, all mega fights that stylistically make the mouth water too. The hope is that Arum, Hearn etc. have done so much bread during the pandemic that they'll chase the big score and accept terms when crowds are back hopefully next year.
    Quoted this here because I'm curious your take on this subject relative to mma. Been a little talk since the election of Andrew Yang being involved in Biden's cabinet as perhaps labor secretary and his desire to invoke the Ali Act on the sport on behalf of fighters. And I mention it in regards to your post due to the obvious notion that it will break up the UFC's monopolistic stranglehold and create a free for all that could leave mma in a boxing-esque landscape. Thoughts?

  65. #12465
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I don't think it necessarily breaks up the monopoly if it happens, as it's not like any non-champion can't wind their contract down and see what's out their already. So I think you still have the top fighters fight under the UFC banner, just like more top fighters are with Top Rank as opposed to Lou Dibella. Maybe over time it would, but the top promotions have the best TV deals to pay the best salaries to ensure having the best roster of talent. The way that the UFC is branded is different too. Nobody who has ever purchased a boxing PPV said to their mates whether they're watching the Top Rank at the weekend, it's the boxing, or the fighters in particular. The UFC is basically MMA to a lot of people that follow the sport. So even if other companies are promoting good events with good fighters on good networks, it doesn't have the pull of the UFC. Any time when somebody's chucked money at it (EliteXC, Affliction), they've done their arse on the paychecks. UFC guarantees revenue, so they can pay fighters up to X, whereas if they refused to pay, say, Tony Ferguson and Dustin Poirier a million each to fight each other, whoever picked it up and paid them it would lose a tonne of money without the branding behind it. Tough.

    Essentially, you'd need the big names branching off to have any chance. Literally McGregor, Diaz and Masvidal. Conor vs. either still does a million buys without the UFC and the revenue can be split more fairly. As is, revenue is so low elsewhere that UFC's diabolical split is still the better gamble than taking it from elsewhere and the company going broke.

  66. #12466
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    That's very true. When it comes to boxing, I have never heard someone say they were going to watch anything other than the words "boxing", "the fights", or "Boxer A v. Boxer B". Nobody ever says "I wonder what the WBA has going on this weekend!" Shit you hear people asking what fights Showtime is having on this weekend than a promotion's name. I

    With all of this said we all know and agree that fighters deserve more money. The pay gap between Dana White and Tony Ferguson is not alright with me I don't care what Dana has or hasn't done for the MMA world. He wasn't fighting and he didn't make every single fighter a millionaire and household name so fuck anyone who lives in that fantasy world.

  67. #12467
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I'd rather they went the sport's league route over the boxing route, honestly. Fighters should just have a bigger chunk of the revenue in the UFC and that's it. Nobody's asking for Tony Ferguson to get paid like Lebron James, but top fighters like him should be retiring very wealthy men.

  68. #12468
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    I'd rather they went the sport's league route over the boxing route, honestly. Fighters should just have a bigger chunk of the revenue in the UFC and that's it. Nobody's asking for Tony Ferguson to get paid like Lebron James, but top fighters like him should be retiring very wealthy men.
    Yes I agree. And if he shits his money away that's on him. Plenty of stories of once upon a time millionaires in sports and entertainment and life in general who squandered their riches.

  69. #12469
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    Dana says Khabib is fighting next year so I guess I have a hat to eat. I'll believe it when I see it.

    Some people are shitting on Chandler for saying he wants to fight Tony in January and not December and I don't see the big deal in a month delay to get a full training camp personally. We're already mid November.

  70. #12470
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Agreed. I know that the UFC 256 line up isn't stacked but I'm not their accountant so I could give a shit. Put on fights when fighters are at the peak of their powers if you can.

    Thinking Poirier/McGregor fights Chandler/Ferguson for the shot at Khabib. Either it's a 3 fight win streak rematch or it's finally Tony, or Chandler through the back door. Khabib wouldn't be able to deny McGregor as a competitor if he got through that. You put the Khabib return in a stadium anyway come next September/October. Imagine the Conor rematch as a genuine sporting spectacle with McGregor actually active and deserving of the shot.

  71. #12471
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    If Chandler was ready to hop in with Khabib v. Gaethje then he should have no issue stepping up to fight Tony in December. That's all I'm saying. Fighters should ALWAYS be ready to go I do not understand this "I need 8 months to properly train" Bitch your job is to train and fight, that's it. Oh and make weight. If you're taking 3 weeks off to get fat, don't bitch when big fights pass you by.

    Plus it's on my birthday. The last UFC on my birthday we saw Aldo get KTFO by McGregor in seconds.

  72. #12472
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    I kinda like the idea of Chandler/Ferg fighting on the same card as Poirier/McGregor and rounding it out as the de facto LW contender tourney that it is (or is perhaps hoping to be).

  73. #12473
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    So Conor is signed and official for 257 vs Poirier..

    meanwhile Khabib was asked about Dana's commenting that he will come back for number 30..

    Khabib Nurmagomedov responds to Dana Whites comeback talk

    "You can fight until youre 40 but there should be a goal, Nurmagomedov said (via RT Sport). I had a goal to reach the summit and I got there. Further, I have no competitive interest. Next year I will graduate. Id like to [build on] my thesis, do a masters course, dedicate more time to studying. Ive bought sheep, I tend to my farm. Id like to develop in this field a little. I have the bull calves out to feed, I have cows.

    ..maybe he's serious, maybe he's negotiating, maybe who knows..

  74. #12474
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I mean it would be cool for a fighter to actually get out on top with half his brain and a nice number in the bank. Khabib seems like the type of dude who might stick to his guns but who knows.

  75. #12475
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    Mike Perry apparently not going to make weight. This after saying just yesterday that he still had 20 pounds to go but it wouldn't be a problem.

  76. #12476
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Just another reason this guy needs to be released. Why he even gets fights is beyond me. He's a complete idiot and has no place in this sport.

    I know I'm going to be morbid, but what the UFC honestly needs is someone to die on their watch over weight cutting. They see fighters passing out, going to the hospital, etc. and they're just like "Ummm we'll adjust the weigh ins by a few hours" lol. Look at OneFC. They had like 9 dudes die and finally did something so who knows maybe we'll never get beyond this wrestling-mentality that soaks not just the UFC but MMA, especially in North America.

  77. #12477
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    The OneFC method is genuinely intriguing. In fact I don't know what strong argument one would have against it. Just as interesting would be where everyone would shake out to if it were implemented. Figure over half the roster would automatically bump up a weight class with several moving up two. Be pretty wild.

  78. #12478
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    The OneFC method is genuinely intriguing. In fact I don't know what strong argument one would have against it. Just as interesting would be where everyone would shake out to if it were implemented. Figure over half the roster would automatically bump up a weight class with several moving up two. Be pretty wild.
    These guys cutting 20-30lbs in a week, 2 weeks is just insanity. Mike Perry saying he has 20lbs to cut in a day and it's no problem, then in the next breath saying he's killing himself and might call it quits after this fight due to weight cutting is insane to me.

    I know we've talked about closing the gap and offering more weight classes. Just like boxing. And with way more fighters now than even 5 years ago and more events....Some of the smaller weight classes are fine, all within 10lbs of each other but then you get to WW and it's a 15lbs jump from LW, then it's 15 to MW, 20 to LHW, and we all know HW is just this huge gap.

    Funny thing about HW is that the 3 guys I consider the GOATs could have probably made LHW (1 did and was the 2nd GOAT of that division) and been just as vicious (Fedor, Cain V, and obviously DC)

  79. #12479
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    What an idiot.

  80. #12480
    Level 6 Laser Lotus Bert's Avatar
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    Jennifer Maia is +850 to win, +1000 for a stoppage

    I might throw away $10.

  81. #12481
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    He's gotten 90k to show for each of his last two fights, so unless he's taken a pay cut he's just spent at least $27,000 to fuck up his weight cut.

    Brilliant.

  82. #12482
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Here he is preparing to cut weight for a ufc fight ten days ago..

    https://mobile.twitter.com/current_m...73228956950528

    Fuckin clown.

  83. #12483
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    Stupid bastard. I imagine he gets cut with a loss, he's quickly been down a path of diminishing returns without this on top.

  84. #12484
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    Tony Ferguson vs. Charles Oliviera next month at UFC 256, co-main to Yan vs. Sterling. Beast of a fight, Do Bronx has the records for most submissions and performance of the night, and Tony is one of the most recklessly entertaining fighters of all time. Going to be fun for as long as it lasts, the money is obviously on Charles crumbling under pressure but he's looked very good lately and Tony is coming off a huge drubbing. We've seen many durable fighters fade after lesser beatings.

    Anybody tipping the underdogs tonight? Can't see it myself. I do like that there's contender fights in both divisions underneath, great opportunity for Royval, Moreno and Calvillo (not so much Chookagian given she already lost to Shevchenko) to get their timelines matching up to the champion so I'm expecting them to be good scraps. Can't see past successful defences. Maia absolutely has no chance in my eyes considering her Hail Mary is a submission against somebody who hasn't been tapped before. Perez is a good fighter but he's outgunned and will fold under Figgy Smalls' pressure. I fancy Platinum to get pieced up by Means. Shogun fight is a coin flip again, but Paul Craig shouldn't be losing to this version of Shogun. Insane that he's run up a decent record recently when he can hardly fucking move.

  85. #12485
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Pretty much just leaves Gaethje, Hooker, or Ferreira for Chandler's debut then..

  86. #12486
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    I'd swap out CDR with RDA in that scenario. Given that the Dober fight wasn't replaced, I imagine that gets rescheduled. Gaethje vs. Hooker, RDA vs. Chandler would be my preference but any combination I'd be happy to see. Islam vs. Dariush maybe, he needs to fight soon.

  87. #12487
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Just didn't include RDA because he fought so recently with a bit of a med suspension.

  88. #12488
    Multiversal Champion OD50's Avatar
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    I'd like to see Gaethje/Chandler.

    /Chandler/RDA would be fine too.
    Last edited by OD50; November 21st, 2020 at 2:33 PM.

  89. #12489
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    Super cool segment put together for Marc Ratner there.. props..

  90. #12490
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    Maybe I should have put that $10 on Maia.

  91. #12491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Tony Ferguson vs. Charles Oliviera next month at UFC 256, co-main to Yan vs. Sterling. Beast of a fight, Do Bronx has the records for most submissions and performance of the night, and Tony is one of the most recklessly entertaining fighters of all time. Going to be fun for as long as it lasts, the money is obviously on Charles crumbling under pressure but he's looked very good lately and Tony is coming off a huge drubbing. We've seen many durable fighters fade after lesser beatings.

    Anybody tipping the underdogs tonight? Can't see it myself. I do like that there's contender fights in both divisions underneath, great opportunity for Royval, Moreno and Calvillo (not so much Chookagian given she already lost to Shevchenko) to get their timelines matching up to the champion so I'm expecting them to be good scraps. Can't see past successful defences. Maia absolutely has no chance in my eyes considering her Hail Mary is a submission against somebody who hasn't been tapped before. Perez is a good fighter but he's outgunned and will fold under Figgy Smalls' pressure. I fancy Platinum to get pieced up by Means. Shogun fight is a coin flip again, but Paul Craig shouldn't be losing to this version of Shogun. Insane that he's run up a decent record recently when he can hardly fucking move.
    Good picks on the main card there.

    I think it’s quite likely that Tony hasn’t actually dropped a step but his problems came more from his idiotic decision of making weight twice in short schedule against Justin. People revisionist remember that fight being a total domination by Justin too and it wasn’t, it went that way in the end but Tony was landing a lot too in all the rounds.

  92. #12492
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, there are certainly asterisk's connected to the defeat - opponent change, being demoralised not fighting Khabib after all the build up, making the weight twice, first fight under the evolving COVID protocols. The suggestion wasn't that he lost because he's lost a step, moreso I expect him to have lost a step because he took a lot of concussive damage on the back nine of that fight, and fighters often struggle to come back quite the same after such punishment.

    Deivision is an animal. Apparently turning right around and fighting Moreno in 3 weeks. Moreno is a mad man too fighting that guy on fuck all notice.

    Shogun has reached the end of the road then. Why they've fed Anderson and Shogun to younger fighters when you can pair them off for a legacy fight I'll never know. I'd still want to watch that fight after these losses honestly. RIZIN should be blowing all their dough on an openweight GP at the Saitama - Anderson, Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Tito, Fedor, Werdum, Barnett, Hunt, Bigfoot, Mir, Vitor, and 4 local acts like Hong Man Choi. Bellator are nuts if they don't want to run Fedor vs. Anderson too. I hate watching old fighters look old by fighting young fighters, but I'm all about matching them up. Shogun vs. Lil Nog 3 was a fun time. Last night was just sad, and I like Paul Craig.
    Last edited by Fanny Batter; November 22nd, 2020 at 8:31 AM.

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    Yep, it just seems like a slam dunk no brainier to have legends fights.

  94. #12494
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Oh yeah, there are certainly asterisk's connected to the defeat - opponent change, being demoralised not fighting Khabib after all the build up, making the weight twice, first fight under the evolving COVID protocols. The suggestion wasn't that he lost because he's lost a step, moreso I expect him to have lost a step because he took a lot of concussive damage on the back nine of that fight, and fighters often struggle to come back quite the same after such punishment.

    Deivision is an animal. Apparently turning right around and fighting Moreno in 3 weeks. Moreno is a mad man too fighting that guy on fuck all notice.

    Shogun has reached the end of the road then. Why they've fed Anderson and Shogun to younger fighters when you can pair them off for a legacy fight I'll never know. I'd still want to watch that fight after these losses honestly. RIZIN should be blowing all their dough on an openweight GP at the Saitama - Anderson, Wanderlei, Shogun, Rampage, Tito, Fedor, Werdum, Barnett, Hunt, Bigfoot, Mir, Vitor, and 4 local acts like Hong Man Choi. Bellator are nuts if they don't want to run Fedor vs. Anderson too. I hate watching old fighters look old by fighting young fighters, but I'm all about matching them up. Shogun vs. Lil Nog 3 was a fun time. Last night was just sad, and I like Paul Craig.
    You know exactly why they do it. These are NAME fighters. In the case of Shogun, he was ranked in the top 10 and was doing pretty fuckin good, longest winning streak he's had in the UFC. He's younger than me BUT he's been fighting at a brutal high level since he was like 21 so in MMA years he's like 98.

    But ultimately it's the same reason why they had Rich Franklin v. Ken Shamrock. Or why they kept putting BJ Penn against ranked fighters. The problem is they're catering to fans that aren't going to be like "Well yeah I get he beat Anderson, but Anderson has only won 1 fight in like 8 years....." So the name goes a long way but in reality it's not the same dude. It's why I didn't take offense to Fedor losing to Meathead in a minute lol.

  95. #12495
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Yeah it's a tried and tested formula in boxing, but it doesn't work in MMA does it. Mainly because I think the drop off is often more apparent with MMA due to the mix of disciplines clearly exposing the slump in skills and athleticism. Fans can tell in the first takedown attempt that Shogun wasn't Shogun. Mike Tyson will look like Mike Tyson for a round on Saturday because he'll go forward and throw combinations. In boxing chin and reflexes fade but skills rarely diminish, whereas in MMA once the athletic ability goes a lot of the skills no longer work at a high level. Fans aren't ignorant to that because it's so visible.

  96. #12496
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Yeah it's a tried and tested formula in boxing, but it doesn't work in MMA does it. Mainly because I think the drop off is often more apparent with MMA due to the mix of disciplines clearly exposing the slump in skills and athleticism. Fans can tell in the first takedown attempt that Shogun wasn't Shogun. Mike Tyson will look like Mike Tyson for a round on Saturday because he'll go forward and throw combinations. In boxing chin and reflexes fade but skills rarely diminish, whereas in MMA once the athletic ability goes a lot of the skills no longer work at a high level. Fans aren't ignorant to that because it's so visible.
    I can't speak on boxing because I haven't followed that sport religiously in 20 years. With MMA, it's hard to honestly tell. Look at Couture when he came back and beat Tim Sylvia. Personally I thought, Big Tim is going to dust this old man. I was going by what Chuck had done to him and thought, no way. Then I thought, no fuckin way this guy beats Gabe Gonzaga. AND HE FINISHES HIM!

    MMA is a weird sport. A guy could look like shit at certain moments in a fight and then look like their old self and pull out a win. I mean, Anderson Silva was winning the Hall fight before he got stopped. I had him up 2-1 going into the 4th, easily, and he never gets finished so seeing him get stopped I was like, ok damn. Maybe if he and Izzy weren't playing patty cake Izzy might have finished him but they went the distance. Shogun, same thing man, the guy was on a 3-4 fight winning streak and it wasn't just against old dudes from Pride he was beating younger, less battle torn fighters. Dan Henderson, same thing man. Hard to put an expire date in a sport where there are so many ways to win. Damien Maia has no business being a top 5 guy at this stage in his career but I can promise you, nobody is taking that guy lightly.

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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Yeah they're crafty enough to get the job done until they're not so it's hard to gauge. Couture was even beating Brandon Vera years even after that fight, he was a freak. And it's hard to call it a day if you CAN win. Anderson could have beat Uriah. Shogun did have top position for a bit against Craig. There's moments there to show on another Saturday night the chips can fall right.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Yeah they're crafty enough to get the job done until they're not so it's hard to gauge. Couture was even beating Brandon Vera years even after that fight, he was a freak. And it's hard to call it a day if you CAN win. Anderson could have beat Uriah. Shogun did have top position for a bit against Craig. There's moments there to show on another Saturday night the chips can fall right.
    And plus, did you see Shogun's elbow? I don't know if that had a lot to do with his loss but damn that's a nasty injury.

    For Anderson, I think he should call it day because his record is shit now. Curious if he would still be around if he lost the Brunson fight. I'm actually surprised the UFC kept him despite the win but again it comes back to he's a big name, a legend, wasn't getting dusted in his losses since getting knocked out by Weidman years ago so I get it.

    Unlike BJ where he was getting smoked easily in every fight it seemed since the Diaz fight.

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