UFC - Ultimate Fighting Championship

[Fanny Batter]

Lee vs. Iaquinta tonight then. Al's in this fight. Hits hard and has big endurance, so he'll more than likely be there at the bell. So Kevin has to be pretty much perfect to win. I think I'm leaning Al to be honest. Lee's striking is still quite raw, Al should do damage if he can avoid a takedown. Barboza couldn't but Barboza fights that high guard Thai style, Al will have his hands down to protect the dhot. Lee is constantly improving but he's not been without fault in the last couple of years, and feel he has been overrated past his current level due to the opportunities he's received at the top of the card.

Barboza beats Hooker for me. It is dependent on him not having brain damage from those last two beatings, but he's a step above a fun action fighter like Hooker. Guaranteed to be an exciting fight.

Pettis vs. Font, Pettis has no power, Font hits hard and is getting better every fight. His fight to lose for me, again Pettis way overrated due to a couple of close wins.

Miller vs. Olivera. Just when you think Jim is done, he fights back. He loses this fight though. Olivera fights long well now, better jab, and his takedowns have come on. He's a flake so there's a chance he gets hit and melts, but I see him tiring Miller out for a late submission.

FOX deal ending with a bit of a whimper, but should be solid action at least.

[Mark Hammer]

Yeah this might be the weakest UFC on Fox card to date.

[Fanny Batter]

Great card that. Quality MMA. Lee vs. Iaquinta was a great scrap, closely matched in all facets, Lee with the ground edge, Al standing. More of the fight was contested on the feet so Al took it. Lee will come again, but that is a massive marquee win for Al. Him and Pettis next maybe? Barboza vs. Gaethje, Poirier vs. McGregor 2, Khabib vs. Tony, what a division.

Edson is an animal. Loved that fight. He's so vulnerable with his defence and creative in his offence that if his opponent ain't shooting on him he's an exhilarating watch. Those repeated spinning body kicks were sickening. Hooker is nails.

Font was a step ahead of Pettis as expected. Olivera ragdolled Miller and looks to be in career form. What a finisher. Give him Lee next.

[Mark Hammer]

Dan Hooker is one hard bastard.

[Percussion]

Zabit Magomedsharipov vs. Jeremy Stephens 'in the works' for 235.

I like this mucho.

[Mark Hammer]

I feel like Stephens is about to score another highlight reel KO. Kyle Bokniak(sp) was able to make it dirty vs Zabit and land on his chin.

[Percussion]

Yup, this is a dangerous fight for Zabit if he finds himself just trading from the pocket.

However if he can dictate where the fight goes - at range with his length or to the ground with his arsenal of trips/takedowns - then he's at a distinct advantage.

This is fun matchmaking.

[Fanny Batter]

Yeah, it's an interesting fight. Stephens will test out the variables we don't know about Zabit.

[Mark Hammer]

It would appear that a new belt design is being debuted at UFC 232.

[Percussion]

That's cool, I hope.

Be a lot cooler if there was a new 165 division attached to it.

But whatev, as long as it doesn't spin.

[Mark Hammer]

Yeah, I'm all for 165. Don't know why Dana is being so stubborn about it either; everybody seems on board.

[Nash Diesel]

He's worried the UFC will get watered down with too many divisions. But imo, if you're getting rid of 125, you might as well add 165. He's thinking about how boxing has 95 weight classes. But the UFC isn't all of MMA. I say if another promotion wants to, they should start up a 165 division and see if they can gather some top talent from LW and WW.

[Percussion]

[Mark Hammer]

Ladies and gentlemen, the UFC World Champion.

[Pablo Diablo]

Who even does the In My Feelings challenge anymore?

[Percussion]

So like, Jon Jones ... not even sure where to start.

[Mark Hammer]

It seems surreal every lead-up to a Jones fight.

[Mark Hammer]

So like, Jon Jones ... not even sure where to start.

Been a busy last several days for me but I assume this was in reference to Jones flagging on yet another drug test. I don't know what to think, but fwiw Mike Bisping (who is a very open critic when it comes to steroid users in MMA) says he refuses to believe Jones is still doping as there's no way he's that stupid. I'd like Bisping to be right but I dunno... where there's this much smoke surely there must be fire.

[Percussion]

I want to believe USADA/UFC/Jones because I just want to enjoy a great fight without a steaming pile of controversy, and they make an argument that is at least on it's face plausible ...

however, USADA/UFC/Jones have done next to fuck all to garner any kind of goodwill and the arguments against them are also littered with sound reason.

Ultimately, this thing is taking place one way or another and I think at this point the best result would be a terrific fight that ends with Big Alex somehow knocking Jon's fucking head off his neck.

[Mark Hammer]

I can't disagree with that sadly. I'd like to believe Jones really is the greatest to ever do it but there's no way he can win without people questioning it. Gus winning is the only result that people will accept without controversy.

Fucking Bones. I really wanted to be a fan.

[Fanny Batter]

How's it not come up in any of his tests in the last 17 months if it's been there the whole time like they said? Just absurd. Fuck Jon Jones.

[Percussion]

The explanation as I've understood it is that the result was such a low amount that it could come and go residually in tests for some time. Also heard some theories batted around about the substance laying dormant in his fat content until more recent training would allow it to migrate in a manner that would show up on a test. Haven't really read into that one a great deal, just scanned over the initial idea.

Basically a lot of back and forth between what's rationalizing and what's legit facts.

And I still don't know what to believe.

Except still fuck Jon Jones, pretty much.

[Mark Hammer]

The explanation as I've understood it is that the result was such a low amount that it could come and go residually in tests for some time. Also heard some theories batted around about the substance laying dormant in his fat content until more recent training would allow it to migrate in a manner that would show up on a test. Haven't really read into that one a great deal, just scanned over the initial idea.

Basically a lot of back and forth between what's rationalizing and what's legit facts.

And I still don't know what to believe.

Except still fuck Jon Jones, pretty much.

That all sounds pretty bro-sciency in my humble opinion.

I would feel more inclined to believe the stories defending him if he weren't notorious for his habitual drug flags. This is so disappointing. Seriously (assuming it's true and history suggests that it is) how could he be so stupid?

For whatever it's worth on the other hand though... per USADA he didn't actually fail his test. Such a strange situation.

[Percussion]

Honestly don't know what that first sentence even means.

Agree with everything else though. Whole thing is another just silly and shameful black eye.

[Mark Hammer]

The whole "dormant metabolites rising through body fat" explanation. It's a stretch.

[Percussion]

How so? Aren't certain compounds, thc for example, stored predominantly in fat cells?

Don't get me wrong, it could be complete bullshit, I honestly don't know for sure ... but I don't see where the science is just outright discredited on some kind of hunch or feeling.

[Fanny Batter]

It destroys any credibility in the drugs testing in the sport. Basically means that somebody who has failed in the past can stay on cycle and use the "No way! Must still be there from before!" excuse. It's preposterous. I'd like to think Jon Jones isn't stupid enough to be actively using performance enhancing drugs during a fight camp, but I absolutely think he is arrogant enough to think he can still get away with it during off-season. He's a sociopath. He doesn't think what he's doing is wrong, as he never owns anything when he is proven to be in the wrong. It's always dick pills or contaminated produce or whatever. Why's DC not need dick pills? Why's Alexander Gustafsson able to find supplements that aren't laced with turinabol? Why are 80+% of fighters completely keen according to USADA, while Jon Jones has been either flagged or been involved in news articles that suggest PEDS could be in use FOUR times (suspiciously low for 182, failure prior to 200, failure after 217, this before 232), in addition to the flagging for cocaine, the hit and run, the DUI. He's either the most unfortunate man of all time, who's ignorance in reading the fine print on his stiffy tablets or his creatine tablets has taken half a decade of his career; or, and far more likely - he is an absolutely colossal piece of shit.

[Percussion]

I think the argument against Jones' credibility is pretty evident, as much as it's likewise not helping his case here.

In the meantime I also would like to at least attempt to understand as much of the objective information of the science of the case as is available.

Really much more than just Jon Jones' reputation riding on the validity of what's been said so far.

[Mik]

It’s very obviously that Jones is micro-doping.

[Fanny Batter]

I'd love to see him get chinned on Saturday night. Him and Cyborg. Two of the more odious characters in the sport's history. Throw in Michael Chiesa's whinging arse and I'll either be jubilant or distraught come Sunday morning.

[Nash Diesel]

I'd love to see him get chinned on Saturday night. Him and Cyborg. Two of the more odious characters in the sport's history. Throw in Michael Chiesa's whinging arse and I'll either be jubilant or distraught come Sunday morning.

I can see Jones, but Cyborg=odious? How so?

Jones needs to be truly humbled. Both in the cage and in life. If anyone saw him on the JRE podcast he basically took no responsibility for anything wrong he had done up to that point in his life. And Joe called him out on it a few times as well. So yeah, while I want to believe this guy it's very hard.

And yeah, people can be this fucking stupid we see worse.

[Fanny Batter]

The fact that, as a woman, she failed a drugs test for anabolic steroids? I find that deplorable.

[Nash Diesel]

The fact that, as a woman, she failed a drugs test for anabolic steroids? I find that deplorable.

Is she the only woman in the entire history of MMA to do so? And if not, do you feel the same about them or just Cyborg? And is all because she's a woman considering how many men have failed and I never hear you slight them in your write ups.

1 failed test that was like 10 years ago in a 15 year career=deplorable? Odd.

[Fanny Batter]

Women aren't men, so yes I feel slightly different in regards as to how they chemically alter their bodies going into a fist fight. A woman fighting with elevated testosterone is far more dangerous to me than a man with elevated testosterone fighting another man. You know, because of the whole biological differences between women and men. She has also failed two tests, but one she escaped punishment with a TUE after the fact. Throw in the constant entitled behaviour such as complaining about Nunes pushing the fight back (changing a weight class inside 7 months of a fight - which Cyborg herself resisted in the other direction) and about the confines of the UFC contract (which she signed) and I just don't find her a great person at all. Like Jones I find her a special talent in the cage, but find her thoroughly unlikable outside of it. Same with Ronda Rousey, or Michael Chiesa, or Colby Covington, or Alexander Hernandez.

[Nash Diesel]

Women aren't men, so yes I feel slightly different in regards as to how they chemically alter their bodies going into a fist fight. A woman fighting with elevated testosterone is far more dangerous to me than a man with elevated testosterone fighting another man. You know, because of the whole biological differences between women and men. She has also failed two tests, but one she escaped punishment with a TUE after the fact. Throw in the constant entitled behaviour such as complaining about Nunes pushing the fight back (changing a weight class inside 7 months of a fight - which Cyborg herself resisted in the other direction) and about the confines of the UFC contract (which she signed) and I just don't find her a great person at all. Like Jones I find her a special talent in the cage, but find her thoroughly unlikable outside of it. Same with Ronda Rousey, or Michael Chiesa, or Colby Covington, or Alexander Hernandez.

Who the fuck is Alexander Hernandez? lol.

Cyborg coming across as entitled is news to me. Her wanting to stay active is a negative? Her having issues with her contract is a negative? Yes she signed it but that doesn't mean she has no right to speak about the positives and negatives. You never complain about how you make money? Say yes and I'll show you a ketchup popsicle that will go nicely with your white gloves.

Again, 1 failed test in 10 years and we're not talking about the only female to ever test positive for PEDs. I'm aware of the biological differences between men and women but skill is skill. If skill didn't matter Vitor would still be undefeated.

[Mark Hammer]

The fact that, as a woman, she failed a drugs test for anabolic steroids? I find that deplorable.

I've made this argument numerous times. There's something just a bit worse about an artificial man fighting smaller women. So you are 100% correct.

[Mark Hammer]

Who the fuck is Alexander Hernandez? lol.

Cyborg coming across as entitled is news to me. Her wanting to stay active is a negative? Her having issues with her contract is a negative? Yes she signed it but that doesn't mean she has no right to speak about the positives and negatives. You never complain about how you make money? Say yes and I'll show you a ketchup popsicle that will go nicely with your white gloves.

Again, 1 failed test in 10 years and we're not talking about the only female to ever test positive for PEDs. I'm aware of the biological differences between men and women but skill is skill. If skill didn't matter Vitor would still be undefeated.

She thinks it's blasphemous against her country for another Brazilian woman to dare challenge for her title; entitled is putting it lightly.

[Nash Diesel]

I've made this argument numerous times. There's something just a bit worse about an artificial man fighting smaller women. So you are 100% correct.

You're just mad because Cyborg is the only female you know for a fact you can't put your hands on and be victorious. Remember your thread about how you could supposedly beat up Ronda Rousey......The only person on here who's ever made a thread about how they'd fair beating up a female......

She thinks it's blasphemous against her country for another Brazilian woman to dare challenge for her title; entitled is putting it lightly.

She's not the only one. Going back to early Pride DVDs I remember Bas and Quadros talking about how Brazilians don't like to fight each other because they fought each other all the time in Brazil.

I mean, it's ok for Daniel Cormier to not want to fight Luke Rockhold or Cain but it's wrong for Cyborg-who btw is defending against a Brazilian-to feel that way about fellow countrymen? I mean, think about it...how many times can you think of where you saw 2 Brazilians fighting each other. It's not common.

Plus, her real issue is that Nunes trains with your boy toy Colby.

[Mark Hammer]

I'm not mad whatsoever. You seem to be though.

Also pretty enormous difference between not fighting teammates and not fighting countrymen. Imagine an American fighter trying to pull that shit.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm not mad whatsoever. You seem to be though.

Also pretty enormous difference between not fighting teammates and not fighting countrymen. Imagine an American fighter trying to pull that shit.

Show me where anyone claimed you were mad lol.

I'm not mad at all, just pointing out the blatant bias toward Cyborg. From you it's just another day whenever her name gets brought up, kind of out of character for Fanny but his name literally translates to pussy mixture which is incredibly awesome.

Imagine an American fighter pulling what shit? If Luke Rockhold went to Jungle Fight and said he would rather not fight other Americans since he always fights them, I'm sure they'd oblige. And again, Cyborg is defending her title against a Brazilian so I'm not sure what the issue is here. I mean, what other Brazilians did she say she wouldn't fight?

[Nash Diesel]

And just so we're clear, it was NUNES who first said she wouldn't fight Cyborg because she's Brazilian. Then Cyborg won the belt and Cyborg said that while she at the time had no interest in fighting her since she wanted Brazil to represent multi-divisions as champions, she said if the fans wanted it she would for sure fight Nunes. Nunes has been the one the whole time avoiding Cyborg. So again, is this bias toward Cyborg.....?

[Mark Hammer]

Show me where anyone claimed you were mad lol.

Sure:

You're just mad

[Nash Diesel]

Sure:

You're imagining things again.

[Mark Hammer]

Take your meds.

[Fanny Batter]

She's a woman that injected steroids to help her beat up another woman. Does it need further explanation? I respect her athletic endeavours and think she's an all time great fighter, but that isn't acceptable. Thoroughly unlikable. I don't dislike Nunes by the way, who is also a Brazilian woman.

[Nash Diesel]

She's a woman that injected steroids to help her beat up another woman. Does it need further explanation? I respect her athletic endeavours and think she's an all time great fighter, but that isn't acceptable. Thoroughly unlikable. I don't dislike Nunes by the way, who is also a Brazilian woman.

I say if you can get over men who did the same thing, I think you can get over something that happened 10 years ago, right? This isn't Fallon Fox we're talking about here. If we were talking someone like Josh Barnett or Vitor sure, but skill is skill. If you think that she's still using fair enough.

[Percussion]

Is the argument centered around a woman using steroids to beat up another woman being more egregious than a man using steroids to beat up another man?

[Mark Hammer]

Yes.

[Nash Diesel]

Is the argument centered around a woman using steroids to beat up another woman being more egregious than a man using steroids to beat up another man?

Since Mark inserted himself to pile on the Cyborg hate (shocker!!!) let me be the one to answer. No, that's not the argument. The argument is why is Fanny holding on to something that happened 10 years ago and claim she's "deplorable" for not just that but other things a million other fighters have done.

And I'm still waiting to know more about this Alexander Hernandez lol

[Mark Hammer]

I was one of the people that began the discussion you dimwit.

[Fanny Batter]

I said one of the more odious characters in the sport. Not top 2, top 5 or top 100, just odious. I find her odious. Where on earth is the over the top defence coming from? I don't expect everybody to dislike her, but I do, for reasons specified.

[Nash Diesel]

I was one of the people that began the discussion you dimwit.

Not the discussion I'm having with Fanny.

I said one of the more odious characters in the sport. Not top 2, top 5 or top 100, just odious. I find her odious. Where on earth is the over the top defence coming from? I don't expect everybody to dislike her, but I do, for reasons specified.

It's just a conversation FB. Literally I'm just having a back and forth with you, there's nothing "over the top" What's over the top is your disdain for Cyborg because of what she did 10 years, because she voiced her opinion about a contract that could be better (or do you believe every contract is as good as they'll be?), it's just odd to me because you don't come across as another blind hater.

[Mark Hammer]

"Blind hater" ffs. He's listed and repeated perfectly reasonable (and commonly shared) reasons for disliking her.

You, on the other hand, have gone on in the past about how hot Cyborg is... so maybe FB and everyone else aren't the problem here.

[Mik]

She's a woman that injected steroids to help her beat up another woman. Does it need further explanation? I respect her athletic endeavours and think she's an all time great fighter, but that isn't acceptable. Thoroughly unlikable. I don't dislike Nunes by the way, who is also a Brazilian woman.

Is the argument centered around a woman using steroids to beat up another woman being more egregious than a man using steroids to beat up another man?

Yes.

I just don’t see the difference other than biased and old fashioned patriarchal and quite honestly demeaning oppressive views on gender roles.

Also, I’m very cynical about the fact that many women are probably on steroids too.

[Nash Diesel]

"Blind hater" ffs. He's listed and repeated perfectly reasonable (and commonly shared) reasons for disliking her.

You, on the other hand, have gone on in the past about how hot Cyborg is... so maybe FB and everyone else aren't the problem here.

Finding Cyborg hot in a weird way means absolutely nothing in this discussion.

The only commonly shared reason is her failed PED test from a decade ago. I've never heard anyone call her entitled lol, that's rich. And the reason she's entitled is because someone was calling her out and when she accepted the fight that person wanted to wait another 9 months while Cyborg, the fucking champ in this fight, was ready to go much sooner. Damn her for wanting to stay active!

Maybe if she was a low profile quasi-hot Ashlee Evans-Smith it wouldn't so absurd.

[Mark Hammer]

I just don’t see the difference other than biased and old fashioned patriarchal and quite honestly demeaning oppressive views on gender roles.

Also, I’m very cynical about the fact that many women are probably on steroids too.

Of course, misogyny must be at play.

Honestly if you cant see the issue with a woman loading up on testosterone to fight other women there's nothing left to be said.

[Percussion]

Honestly if you cant see the issue with a woman loading up on testosterone to fight other women there's nothing left to be said.

Sure there is. Such as an honest question as to why that's any worse than a man loading up on testosterone to beat up another man?

[Nash Diesel]

Ask Michael Bisping how it felt when Vitor splattered his head pumped on roids.

[Mark Hammer]

Sure there is. Such as an honest question as to why that's any worse than a man loading up on testosterone to beat up another man?

... because male opponents already produce plenty of testosterone naturally and therefore aren't sitting ducks.

- - - Updated - - -

Ask Michael Bisping how it felt when Vitor splattered his head pumped on roids.

Then ask him his honest opinion on Cyborg and her steroid use.

[Percussion]

... because male opponents already produce plenty of testosterone naturally and therefore aren't sitting ducks.

I don't understand the 'sitting ducks' comment. More or less testosterone is the point, no?

Either you're producing some or another naturally or you're cheating ... what's the difference?

[Mark Hammer]

Right on, I'm through speaking to brick walls now.

[Percussion]

It was a sincere question, mark.

[Fanny Batter]

It's percentages. If a woman increases her testosterone levels by x, she is going to find greater advantages than if a man increases his testosterone levels by x. Both are deplorable in the act of combat (hence my disgust at Jones), one, for me, a little more so. The weight point I have is that her insistence at staying at 145 was the timeline it took to go down in weight, but Nunes can't be afforded the same opportunity and time to alter her body to compete in another weight class? Come on. I sympathise with her in terms of the abuse she gets from idiots saying she's a man, and can see how that would manifest a defensive attitude, but she's not for me.

[Nash Diesel]

It's percentages. If a woman increases her testosterone levels by x, she is going to find greater advantages than if a man increases his testosterone levels by x. Both are deplorable in the act of combat (hence my disgust at Jones), one, for me, a little more so. The weight point I have is that her insistence at staying at 145 was the timeline it took to go down in weight, but Nunes can't be afforded the same opportunity and time to alter her body to compete in another weight class? Come on. I sympathise with her in terms of the abuse she gets from idiots saying she's a man, and can see how that would manifest a defensive attitude, but she's not for me.

If that was the reason Nunes used then I can respect that but to my knowledge she was just pussyfooting around. I mean, does Cormier have to take off extra time to get prepped for HW? Nunes already cuts about 25lbs. and she's not even intending on staying at 145 if she wins.

[Mark Hammer]

So evidently DC has had enough and is done with the UFC...

[Nash Diesel]

Top 5 UFC Female Fighters Ever:

Amanda Nunes
Cyborg Santos
Ronda Rousey
Joanna Jedrzejczyk
Holly Holm


Thoughts?

[Mark Hammer]

I love Holly but it's hard to put her above Valentina, the smaller fighter that beat her (as well as JJ several times in both MMA and MT).

[Mik]

Valentina already has to be a close second. She almost beat the girl who smashed cyborg and now fights in a LIGHTER division. Most of those girls are natural 145ers fighting in a lower division. Valentina was fighting up.

[Nash Diesel]

I love Holly but it's hard to put her above Valentina, the smaller fighter that beat her (as well as JJ several times in both MMA and MT).

I actually forgot that Valentina beat Holly, I thought Holly beat her but that's right, this was Holly's 2nd loss in MMA.

So ok, you can put Valentina in her place. Even though she beat JJ, I think JJ accomplished so much AND she stepped up in weight to fight Valentina as opposed to dropping down. So current top 5 of all time:

Nunes
Cyborg
Ronda Rousey
Joanna
Valentina

[Mark Hammer]

JJ did a lot in her division and is definitely a top female great but those two losses to Rose dropped her a notch in my book and I would still put Valentina above her. Imagine Shevchenko vs any of JJ's opponents.

[Nash Diesel]

JJ did a lot in her division and is definitely a top female great but those two losses to Rose dropped her a notch in my book and I would still put Valentina above her. Imagine Shevchenko vs any of JJ's opponents.

I can imagine what a lot of people 2 weight classes above JJ's opponents could potentially do to the Strawweight division lol.

I just don't think Shevchenko has done enough to truly warrant anything higher than #5, which is in no way a bad thing she just has to build that resume. And sadly she's not going to do it fighting Jessica Eye and Nicco Montana.

[Mark Hammer]

One weight class.

[Nash Diesel]

One weight class.

Technically 2. How many fights outside of 115 in the UFC? 1. How many for Bullet outside of 135? 1. Guess what, that 1 fight each had was against the other. So again, and you're the guy who constantly shit on the 135/145 divisions, I would say that yeah, Bullet probably would fuck up Cookie Monster or Jessica Penne easier than JJ could fuck up Holly Holm. Mainly because JJ was beating up Atomweights.

[Mark Hammer]

Technically just one. She was an undersized 135 pounder because there was no 125 lb division. All the more reason to put her above JJ.

[Mark Hammer]

DW is saying Khabib/Conor 2 is definitely going to happen in 2019. I don't want to see it, but I guess Dana wants to kill off any aura Conor has left with another consecutive dominant loss.

[Nash Diesel]

Technically just one. She was an undersized 135 pounder because there was no 125 lb division. All the more reason to put her above JJ.

lol. Are we just going to push the goal posts back and forth to determine why Valentina and JJ are better than the other? "Undersized 135er" that reportedly cuts 20lbs. I guess compared to Cyborg she's undersized.

DW is saying Khabib/Conor 2 is definitely going to happen in 2019. I don't want to see it, but I guess Dana wants to kill off any aura Conor has left with another consecutive dominant loss.

I could see it happening but did he say that was the next fight for both?

I mean, you're a BIG McGregor fan. Do you not think he can bounce back like he did against Nate? I know they're 2 totally different fighters I'm just saying, McGregor coming off a 2 year lay off prancing around in metrosexual costumes getting coked out and drunk on his own supply might not have been the best training method leading up to the fight lol.

Also, I saw his woman is pregnant as fuck right now, we might never see this guy again.

[Percussion]

Khabib/Conor II is silly. It would go no differently whatsoever from part 1. He's got nothing for Khabib.

And I haven't seen anywhere where Dana said it was definitely happening.

[Nash Diesel]

Khabib/Conor II is silly. It would go no differently whatsoever from part 1. He's got nothing for Khabib.

And I haven't seen anywhere where Dana said it was definitely happening.

I wouldn't say he's got nothing when I think he's the only guy to win a round against Khabib. The fact he did as well as he did after a 2 year layoff, that deserves respect.

Khabib's L is coming. Will it be against Conor? Maybe. I would wait though, I would actually do Khabib v. Ferguson and Conor v. Poirier 2 and the winners fight and the losers fight. Khabib v. Conor 2 for no championship would be just as huge so why not?

[Mark Hammer]

lol. Are we just going to push the goal posts back and forth to determine why Valentina and JJ are better than the other? "Undersized 135er" that reportedly cuts 20lbs. I guess compared to Cyborg she's undersized.



I could see it happening but did he say that was the next fight for both?

I mean, you're a BIG McGregor fan. Do you not think he can bounce back like he did against Nate? I know they're 2 totally different fighters I'm just saying, McGregor coming off a 2 year lay off prancing around in metrosexual costumes getting coked out and drunk on his own supply might not have been the best training method leading up to the fight lol.

Also, I saw his woman is pregnant as fuck right now, we might never see this guy again.

[Mark Hammer]

Khabib/Conor II is silly. It would go no differently whatsoever from part 1. He's got nothing for Khabib.

And I haven't seen anywhere where Dana said it was definitely happening.

Posting from my phone so I can't post the video but Dana White said yes it is happening. Obviously his word should be taken with a grain of salt but he did say it I promise.

[Percussion]

Fair to say he could land something big. But in terms of whether a rematch is warranted (beyond merely cashgrab sake) the first fight didn't show much in the way of competitive balance. Conor did win a round, and I'd have to check out what I jotted down about it while watching, but I don't think it was anything big in conor's favor. He landed some shots while khabib wasn't terribly aggressive. The fight as a whole looked as though khabib could pretty much do wherever he wanted. And even for as confident as a guy like conor usually is, he appeared like a completely neutered fighter at the end of that one. Tough to come back from having your spirit raped.

I agree completely with your proposed matchups though. In that case a rematch would at least start to make sense.

[Percussion]

Posting from my phone so I can't post the video but Dana White said yes it is happening. Obviously his word should be taken with a grain of salt but he did say it I promise.

I just saw video from yesterday and he was asked if he thinks the fight happens in 2019 and he answered yes. But it wasn't definitely or at all for sure, and he went through a bunch of other contingencies.

[Mark Hammer]

Ok let me search for the video then.

[Mark Hammer]

Only thing I'm seeing is that he said it "should" happen and that it hinges on the NSAC and the length of Khabib's suspension. So no, nothing definitive, outside of Dana wanting the rematch. Which is bad enough imo.

He also said that the fans wanted to see it but I can't imagine that to be true at all. Diaz 3 makes the most sense right now.

[Percussion]

I'd rather see Conor/Max II at 155, tbh.

[Mark Hammer]

That would be good too.

[Nash Diesel]

What would be the point of Holloway v. McGregor @ 155? I'm being serious. I'm looking at the 145 champ, I'm looking at the former champ, but I'm not seeing anything beyond "who's better?" And if you Percussion can't get behind a 3rd Diaz fight (Shit you were negative toward the 2nd) then I don't see how this would be beneficial for anyone including the FW division. Again, another example of where you are not high on divisions being help up so it's a little shocking to hear you pitch this fight, especially at 155.

[Percussion]

It would be on the idea of max moving up to '55 full time, which seems more and more like a matter of when than if. Rematch of a fight between two name guys, one of which has grown immensely while the other is trying to find his groove again. Also a terrific style matchup for both, and a win for either guy vaults them immediately to the top of the contender ladder.

Not sure how anyone could look negatively at that fight, tbh.

[Nash Diesel]

It would be on the idea of max moving up to '55 full time, which seems more and more like a matter of when than if. Rematch of a fight between two name guys, one of which has grown immensely while the other is trying to find his groove again. Also a terrific style matchup for both, and a win for either guy vaults them immediately to the top of the contender ladder.

Not sure how anyone could look negatively at that fight, tbh.

Cool

[Mark Hammer]

It was Holloway's last loss, many moons ago. Giving streaking champions an opportunity to win back a loss is not an unheard of concept.

Max wins, his legacy is that much greater. Conor wins, people begin hailing him again. Win, win. It's a great fight.

[Percussion]

Fuck that's really a stellar fight.

[Mark Hammer]

Agreed. I would much rather see it than Khabib or Poirier 2.

[Percussion]

155 is out of there..

Tony Ferguson vs. Khabib Nurmagomedov

Max Holloway vs. Conor McGregor II

Dustin Poirier vs. Al Iaquinta

Justin Gaethje vs. Edson Barboza

Kevin Lee vs. Anthony Pettis

..

[Mik]

If Gus can go from being taken down at will by Davis to not being able to be taken down by Cormier or Jones, then McGregor can train to not be taken down by Khabib, or certainly to be able to get up. He just needs some humility and to accept that his hands won’t always get the job done. He’s done this before with Diaz. He needs to train with genuine top wrestlers.

His tactics in the fight were terrible. Chasing and trying to walk down Khabib rather than getting out of range and trying to catch him coming in, like he did with Eddie. His first and foremost plan should’ve been circling off the cage, staying out of range, and popping off the jab then getting out of there, disengaging as much as possible. Khabib’s conditioning is immense when he’s chasing and catching people, but what about when he’s chasing and wrestling thin air?

[Percussion]

So if Conor trains tdd relentlessly for the next 3+ years and they rematch then that he ought to keep it standing more in his favor? Ok.

[Mark Hammer]

That's not all he said mate. He suggested that Conor fought with a poor gameplan and would/could fare better with a better one.

[Percussion]

It's not all he said, but it was all that he said that I wanted to ask about right there, mate.

[Percussion]

And fwiw I don't think Conor at this point in his career is ever going to be a particularly elastic fighter strategy-wise. He's won, and rocketed himself to the moon, with a particular method that was based off movement and timing in incorporating his boxing counter-heavy style into the advantage. It's not to say that it's entirely impossible to learn and adapt new tricks/methods, but for a guy with his level of success and wealth from said success I wouldn't hold my breath that he's going to reinstall largely different approaches to key points to his fight strategy.

When he was a hungry up and comer and on the cusp of superstardom I wouldn't have doubted him capable of learning/adapting to much in the mma game. He was dedicated, talented, and unwavering in his desire. I'd be hard pressed to believe those things are remotely the same anymore, whether he even is aware of this now or not.

[Nash Diesel]

I like how Percussion just writes off Conor. If they have a part 2 and the same thing happens you can come back and gloat. Until then, there are no unbeatable men, and there are no guarantees in the sport of MMA. Imagine if everyone was like, there's no way GSP could beat Matt Serra after getting waxed like he did.

Fedor Syndrome.

[Percussion]

I like how Percussion just writes off Conor. If they have a part 2 and the same thing happens you can come back and gloat. Until then, there are no unbeatable men, and there are no guarantees in the sport of MMA. Imagine if everyone was like, there's no way GSP could beat Matt Serra after getting waxed like he did.

Fedor Syndrome.

Fair to say he could land something big.

I love how Nash just reads and responds to what he wants to allow himself to argue endlessly.