Considering how conservative the rest of the squad I'd be surprised if he even gets off the #beeeeench.
Considering how conservative the rest of the squad I'd be surprised if he even gets off the #beeeeench.
Realistically, what is different about this squad to the squad that Sven, McClaren or Capello would've named?
What differnce is there betwwen this squad and the one Pearce picked weeks ago?
Really didn't want to happen but Roy looks soooo much like a puppet right now
Originally Posted by Rip
What differnce is there betwwen this squad and the one Pearce picked weeks ago?
Really didn't want to happen but Roy looks soooo much like a puppet right now
What do you mean?
Kelly called up then.
Micah Richards can't catch a break.
If Kelly goes to the tournament I'll be amazed. I presume this means that they just need cover for the friendly and/or Richards has already gone on his holidays.
When Hodgson said the other day he didn't ask Scholes about playing this summer because he didn't want to "risk being rebuffed" he made himself sound like a gimp yet again. What fucking risk? You ask, he might say yes and you've got a ball-playing midfielder in your squad. Or he might say no...so what? What's the risk? Fucking idiot.
Beckham, Scholes and Giggs at the LYMPICS please.
Kelly has simply been added because he'll turn up to the friendly and go home without much fuss. Bringing Richards along would have got the press buzzing with interest and it makes it awkward for the player and manager with him being a big name omission.
Kelly is likely to be in the Olympic squad too so he'll be keeping himself training anyway you would think.
Didn't realise until yesterday that there is a friendly on Saturday
John Ruddy has dislocated a finger and is out of the squad. Jack Butland has been called up. Highly rated but only league experience was on loan at Cheltenham last season!
Ruddy out. Real shame for him.
My boy!
Fraser Forster should really have been given this chance. Shocking really.
TAPS AFF!
Butland has been very impressive with the U21s this season, part of the team that won the U17 Championship 2 years ago and will be competing for England keeper for years to come, might as well give him the senior tournament experience. I'm not sure he has captured the spirit of 'standby' though because I think he's just arrived for a holiday in Mexico.
To be fair Forster has just won a championship and is part if a team with the best defensive record in Scotland. This is actually very impressive despite the "SPL IS SHIT" attitude round here. Celtics defence is fucking shocking and for him to only concede 21 goals approx all season is better than performing well in leauge one.
TAPS AFF!
I think in this case it's more worthwhile to give the keeper who will be Joe Hart's rival for years to come the chance to impress and become accustomed to being with the national team. If Joe Hart gets injured then one of Foster/Stockdale/Forster will get called up anyway.
Should've given Stuart Taylor the nod. I didn't even realise he was still playing until I saw a photo the other day with all the City players celebrating with the League trophy. Even more shameless than David May and the European Cup.
Cole, Cahill, Terry, Johnson, Lampard, Parker and Welbeck are all out of tomorrow's game. Line up to be something like this...
Hart
Kelly - Jones - Lescott - Baines
Walcott - Milner - Barry - Downing
Gerrard
Carroll
Is that the worst England team since the early 90s?
Has there been an explanation as to why Richards was left out and Kelly taken? That team is fucking pish boys.
TAPS AFF!
Because they didn't want the fuss of having him in for a friendly if they had no intention of calling him up for the proper squad. Though if Johnson is fucked they are in trouble. England's team is so shit.
Seriously, I saw some photos of the squad training, and it could have been a B international squad a few years ago.
I can see both sides really. I think it makes more sense for Butland to get the experience of being part of a big tournament at his age as he's not actually going to be required to play, if these two were the options for the second choice goalie I'd more inclined to pick Forster. I know Alex loves Butland for good reason and he's ridiculously highly rated but he's had a few howlers this year, with all young goalies this will happen, and needs more experience first. Funnily enough Forster was excellent for Norwich when they were in League One two years ago, and seems to have done nothing but excel wherever he has played. Definitely a bit strange that his name has barely been mentioned for the spot at all.
I don't think that Butland should be playing for the seniors yet. He started the season very well but had his struggles in the second half of the season at club level, while maintaining good U21 form. I think that's taken into consideration though. In the event that Hart gets injured then another senior goalkeeper will get called up and probably jump in front of Butland in the pecking order. I think it's just that you have to have three keepers and this is the opportunity to bring in a young keeper who'll be enthusiastic because he knows he has a genuine chance for the future and will be happier to return from his holiday instead of someone making up the numbers who'll probably never play for England.
Anyone watching the friendly? Young took his goal well, but I can't help feeling that Holt would've burried the chance Carroll had early on.
I still think having Carroll in the squad is ridiculous - how he's there instead of Crouch is beyond me. I hope he does well in the next few weeks - it would be a great story if he does- but having been a bit of a national joke since joining Liverpool (most of which isn't really his fault) he's now having more pressure heaped on him needlessly. I feel a bit sorry for the bloke
Carroll has been very good over the past few weeks, he offers more than Crouch in the air as he challenges more aggressively. Gerrard looks a bit lost trying to be a disciplined deep midfielder.
Stevie G has just ruined that blokes summer for no reason. Why fly into a tackle like that in a friendly?
Holt would've had 5 by now.
It wouldn't matter if he did score 5 mate - apparently goalscoring records against teams like Norway are irrelevant
He's not been very good, he's been OK and had a very encouraging half an hour in the cup final - he's not come close to the sort of form that made Liverpool sign him in the first place
Nope, he's actually been very good and decent for longer before that. His link-up play and ability to link the attack has regularly been impressive. He has lacked goals and confidence in front of goal. He's a young player who looks to be regaining his belief in himself.
Crouch's time is gone, he doesn't offer a large enough goal threat againt decent sides and doesn't offer the aggression and power Carroll can. Carroll is also simply a younger man who is finding form at the right time for the tournament. He's also a genuine long-term option for England, so it makes sense to bring him rather than alternatives who arguably are not any better yet have no real future in international football. When Rooney is back, it won't matter since he'll be playing up front.
Crouch and Holt are both 31. Carroll is very young and as England aren't going to win the tournament anyway so it makes more sense to take the man with a future in the national team.
Or what ECG said.
Obviously Rooney plays when he's back - we need to get to that third game still in a good chance of going through. In a problem position, taking someone like Crouch should have been a no-brainer. You can't always just write off the next tournament and focus on the future - Terry, Cole. Gerrard and Lampard don't have too many years left either but I don't see the next generation looking much better at the moment, so maybe we should have a crack at this one just in case? I hate seeing players get dismissed just because they're the wrong side of 30
Hodgson regularly tried to sign Crouch at club level so he knows what he offers. I think Carroll is a more rounded player than Holt and Crouch. On recent form Carroll has been a much more imposing striker than either of them and will offer the lone man link up play that Hodgson builds his attacks around.
I'm not dismissing Crouch just because of his age, I'd be more dismissive based on thinking he's not very good. There's no real persuasive reason to take him. At best, you could argue it'd make no real difference taking Crouch over Carroll, so then the age and development argument becomes valid. I also just think Carroll is a better target man, as Alex says.
22 goals in 42 internationals should be reasonably persuasive
It's irrelevant now though. Carroll did OK today in a weakened team - I'm guessing Welbeck with start against Belgium next week if he's fit but hopefully Carroll gets on early in the second half before the game gets completely broken up by substitutions. I don't think we do ourselves any favours by having relatively few friendlies before these tournaments, especially when we have half the first team out like we did today
The last tournament Crouch went to he scored 1 goal in 5 games. I don't think it's even a cliche that Crouch only scores against weaker opposition because a third of his goals came against Jamaica and Andorra.
There's clearly going to be a move towards an emphasis on the system with Hodgson rather than going for an individual because his scoring record was good a couple of years ago and Carroll is more suitable to that role at the top, as well as having shown the difference he can make as an impact player.
They should have picked Rickie Lambert.
There's talk of Lambert being called up for N.I but I don't know how true it is. No idea on the connection or whatever. Michael O'Neill is having to work really really hard to extend the pool.
1 Hart,
2 Johnson,
3 Cole,
4 Gerrard,
5 Cahill,
6 Terry,
7 Walcott,
8 Lampard,
9 Carroll,
10 Rooney,
11 Young,
12 Baines,
13 Green,
14 Jones,
15 Lescott,
16 Milner,
17 Parker,
18 Jagielka,
19 Downing,
20 Oxlade-Chamberlain,
21 Defoe,
22 Welbeck,
23 Butland.
I really feel like we are going to get fucked at this tournament. Lose to France, draws at best against Sweden and Ukraine. The one thing we used to have going for us was a strong defence with Ferdinand and Terry, even that has gone now. It's literally just Rooney and Hart, and then relying on Young to have the tournament of his life or opposition teams to suddenly shit themselves against players that "offer something different" like Carroll, Walcott and Ox. I just have a terrible feeling that in ten years time our only memory of this tournament will be Gary Cahill scoring from a Downing corner in a 1-1 draw with Sweden. Even the disaster at 2000 had the victory over Germany and that mad opening twenty minutes against the Portuguese before Figo got pissed off and slapped us around for the final hour.
That aside, I'm really looking forward to the tournament itself. It feels a lot more open than the last two tournaments where it's almost felt like a given that Spain would win. They've gotten slightly worse while Germany, Holland and France have all improved, so it should be a great tournament. I hope Italy and Portugal do a bit better this time around.
Last edited by Simon; May 29th, 2012 at 7:16 AM.
Italy really don't look like much at the minute. They are robust though so you never know what might happen but they are a bit muh
Yeah, this England side has definitely got an air of early 90's wilderness years about it.
Fuck it lads. Gary Cahill is immense. Ashley Young is immense. Jimmy Milner will be a national hero after this. Carroll will dominate defences. We will win it and not even fucking concede because Joe Hart is unstoppable. ENGERLAND ENGERLAND ENGERLAND. WAHEEEEEEEEYYYY LADSSSSS.
#outinthegroupstages
Portugal are shite right now. They'll be doing well to finish 3rd in their group.
May seem a bit weird but there's quite a few "key" players for England that will be a lot fresher than some of the competition because they haven't had full seasons. Young (24), Gerrard (18), even Lampard to an extent (30) have all had a lot of time off this year, and even players like Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain will be absolutely bursting with energy after playing sub-30 games for successful sides. I don't think we will be embarrassed as much as we think we will - there is a bit of talent there and for once we don't have the entire team knackered for the tournament. Bear in mind Rooney will have had six weeks off by this point aswell. I expect a decent fight at least.
I think the France game is vital. Whilst I wouldn't bet on England in that game if we can somehow edge a win there then we'll be well set to qualify.
I see France limped to a win at the weekend. I think that's 17 unbeaten now for them but I'm not convincved by them defensively.
I stuck a tenner on France to win with Benzema top scorer. I think they've got a good manager and a strong team and Benzema really is a top class fucking striker these days. Probably the most in-form forward coming into the tournament, including Van Persie here. He can do the whole lot. There's not a team in the tournament you can pinpoint as having a strong defence, to be honest. Germany shipped 5 to Switzerland at the weekend, Spain have Puyol ruled out and Pique in hideous form all season, as well as with injury problems of his own, the Dutch may have a rigid set-up but I don't think they're blessed with much class at the back either.
I guess Lampard has had more rests than in previous seasons, but he is almost 34 and has had a pretty intense schedule over the last couple of months of the season. 38 starts and a further 11 appearances as a sub in all competitions. Not sure that would compare all that favourably with many players.
Agree that France's defence may prove a little suspect, but they've got a terrific squad and I expect them to win the group comfortably. Could be a front four of Benzema, Nasri, Ribery and Ben Arfa with the likes of Valbuena, Menez and Giroud in reserve. Threatening.
They've left Gourcuff out. It's a pity, he's a wonderful player when he's on form but Blanc has been the only man to get that form out of him and if he doesn't think he's worth taking then it's not meant to be. Maybe Arsenal will fancy a sniff of him this summer with Lyon having a few money difficulties and him being out of form for a while now. He has the ability to definitely be worth a try and he's only 25.
I'm interesting in seeing M'Vila this summer as well as he's very highly rated by a lot of journos. Andy Brassell reckons he is already on his way to being the best defensive midfielder around and will only get better with experience. There was chat a move to Arsenal for him had already been finalised but if he's really as good as that, Rennes would be better off waiting until after the Euros.
Did you see that piece by a Guardian journo (possibly Phillipe Auclair?) saying that Gourcuff has basically been marginalised everywhere he's gone, and at the last World Cup he asked the senior players (Evra, Ribery and Henry) to help him get the support of the rest of the squad, only for them to go and complain to Domenech that they didn't want such a 'crybaby' in the squad
Evra and Ribery really are poisonous wee bastards in the French squad. It wouldn't be a surprise if was true.
Even though I've back the French to win, it also wouldn't be surprising if they had another meltdown with some of those cunts in the squad again, with the addition of a fucking gypsy like Samir Nasri in there too.
M'Vila might have fucked his chances of a move I'm sure I read something about him getting arrested for drunk driving and assault and he's got a court case coming up. He also pissed off Rennes the weekend that followed by refusing to play citing personal reasons.
Auclair said on the latest FW podcast that M'Vila has been shit for Rennes this season anyway.
He's definitely leaving. Unless he's actually murdered someone I'm sure most clubs will overlook a bit of minor assault (he's being done for slapping a teenager or something). One of the issues with him is over his temper and the number of yellow cards he gets.
Didn't they get really good and really high scoring once they changed their manager?
Just checked, they went on a 5 game win streak last year and scored 17 goals in that time but seem to have gone back to shite in their two games this year.
Yeah his temper seems to get him in a bit of trouble as this latest accusation will be his second court case for assault as he has been done for attacking someone in a road rage incident in 2010. He also confronted a few fans who protested the training ground and kicked his car after Rennes were in the middle of a poor run.
He was also in court giving evidence against two prostitutes who robbed him and his friend.
I could see a few clubs maybe questions his temperament and attitude but then if he has a good tournament then it will be overlooked.
Lamps has pulled up in training apparently. JORDAN HENDERSON on standby.
Henderson getting the Jermaine Jenas "fans ultimate prize" this summer then.
Gets to train and hang out with the team and has awesome seats for all the games.
is cleverly still unfit? id have stuck him in there instead of jordan fucking henderson!
Could be worse, we could have drafted in Martin Kelly to replace Gary Cahill.
Oh, wait...
How can we aspire to be one of the best teams in world football when this much of the squad is made up of shittier players of England's eighth best club (And to be honest, Liverpool overachieved this season)?
Fuck's sake
Cahill Out, Kelly in.
Micah Richards obviously fucked Roy's mum or something.
This is getting stupid now.
Liverpool are sabotaging the national team!
Feel bad for Gary. He's a warrior.
I better give my boots a clean. One more injury and I think I'm next in line for a call up.
Should the club he plays for really matter?
Personally I think Steven Caulker deserves the call up over Kelly.
I think my mum deserves a call up over Martin Kelly.
It does when:
a) It opens the door for some implied bias comments, taking attention away from on-field performances
b) The only Liverpool player that is a shoe in would be Gerrard. None of the others have shown anything to suggest they're world class
None of the players are world class except Cole and Hart regardless of who they play for.
Wayne Rooney is "world class" by any definition of the term. Hart has a bit to do to earn the term.
Rooney has a better claim to being World Class than Joe Hart does. He's the main man at an Elite club and has produced the goods for them for many years now.
Stan Collymore and Phil McNulty have both tweeted to imply that Micah Richards refused to go on the stand-by list hence why he wasn't called up.
Hodgson looks like even more of a twat now too for saying he didn't pick Rio Ferdinand for "footballing reasons." Good one Roy. Footballing reasons must the same reason why you've picked a right-back whose most notable recent performance this season was an absolute shocking nightmare of a showing against Blackburn.
Yeah alright didn't think of Rooney. I'd say Hart was up there in the top5 keepers in world football. Thats world class to me.
Maybe if we see him perform in the CL and at international level consistently you could make that argument. I think there are substantial weaknesses in Hart's game that are covered over by Kompany in the City defence. Kompany wins everything and commands everyone around him. Hart is a fantastic shot-stopper but he looks very shakey on crosses into the box from play and from set-pieces when he has to take responsibility. He was also hesitant yesterday in the incident which led to Cahill being injured. Maybe he'll be fine with Terry taking on that Kompany role.
Everyone thought Paul Robinson was a quality goalkeeper until his weaknesses on set-pieces and long shots were eventually similarly exposed. He never recovered from that, though Hart seems the sort of character that won't let things get to him.
Nah I reckon he has a way to go before that yet. He is still pretty unproven really. he is going to have to be brilliant at these Euros though I reckon.
Hart is a good keeper. A very good keeper, actually, but I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is. He's still very young though and is much better than the alternatives.
Its all subjective I guess. He's a but shaky but I think he's still young enough to iron those out. Top 5 for me with the potential to be the best if he can, as Cappy says, get rid of those errors.
He's only top 5 if you can't think of 5 better than him. Casillas, Valdes, Neuer, Cech, Buffon and Julio Cesar are all better just to name 6 off the top of my head. I also think Lloris and Mandanda for France show great potential, de Gea for Spain is also a potentially great goalkeeper, as is Rui Patricio of Portugal, as is Akinfeev of Russia and Szczesny of Poland. Arguably Stekelenburg is also a better goalkeeper, at least he has shown he was extremely steady for Holland in 2010. It'd be absurd to claim Hart is an exceptional talent amongst all of those goalkeepers around at the moment, there's others not even mentioned. What is true is that he is a brilliant shot-stopper and a confident player and he needs to be on top of his game if England want to progress. I think he can be a huge plus for them with his shot-stopping ability if Hodgson can keep the whole defence organised, however, some of Hodgson's choices at the back have reeked of shit. Losing Cahill is a massive blow, not being able to take Rio is a big blow. Terry and Lescott should be the first choice now and that should be a strong combo alongside Ashley Cole. In terms of right-back, you know things are bad when people ought to pray Glen Johnson stays fit because Jones would be a fucking disaster there and Kelly probably not much better.
Last edited by El Capitano Gatisto; June 3rd, 2012 at 12:03 PM.
I don't think Kelly would be that bad. Certainly nowhere near a disaster.
I would only take Casillas, Neuer, Valdes and Cesar over him. Maybe Cech at a push.
Maybe Cech and not Buffon? Ok. Good luck.
Thanks. All the best.
So Gary Cahill has a fractured jaw and so has been ruled out of the England squad for Euro 2012 and Liverpool’s Martin Kelly has been called up in his place....?!!
Ferdinand was left out of the initial squad because of “footballing reasons”, according to Roy Hodgson. Nothing to do with the fact John Terry allegedly racially abused Rio’s brother and Hodgson feared of disruption in the camp....?
Rather than getting rid of the poisonous element though, Rio was the one punished, just as Wayne Bridge was in 2010 after Terry slept with the mother of his child.
For Hodgson to include Kelly in the squad, who started just 12 league games for the 8th best team in the country, makes a mockery of his initial excuse for leaving Rio out.
Roy Hodgson is a complete fucking moron, period.
Maybe Rio didnt want to play?
Anyway he brought Jagielka in to cover CB so they didnt need to actively replace Cahill.
Kelly is an odd one but he probably will be a regular international in the future so at least he will get some experience.
Exactly, Kelly will be a regular in years to come, he's probably there for the experience. If needed he wont let anyone down. When he got a run in the team early in in the season he was playing well until Johnson walked right into the team and then Kelly got injured himself.
Stats: Martin Kelly made 18 more successful tackles (42) than Gary Cahill (24) in 17 FEWER PL apps last season. Like MMH said Jags is the cover for CB, Kelly RB and Jones for both.
Rio did want to play and his representative is about to put out a statement slamming Hodgson and the FA.
We all know why Ferdinand isn't going. I don't know why people seem to want to put their head in the sand about this.
I would guess Kelly got the nod because Hodgson has worked with him before and would have a better understanding of how Roy wants to set the team up. As for Rio not being picked well maybe Fergie saying he didn't think Rio could play twice in a week won't have helped his case just like Micah Richards wasn't helped by Mancini dropping him for Zabaleta for the run in at the end of last season.
This probably didn't help Rio to be fair:
Isn't that fake?
Yes it's fake.
Last edited by Beefy; June 3rd, 2012 at 5:26 PM.
Those are really specious arguments for why Richards and Ferdinand wouldn't have been picked. The Ferdinand thing is 100% down to John Terry being in the squad, as Beefy says it is pointless skirting that issue, and it's bizarre that another player has to suffer the consequences of this. The FA fucked this one up royally by not just outright saying Terry is captain and in the squad until such time as he is convicted of an offence or suspending him completely to draw a line under it. Now if England suffer the consequences this summer and Terry ends up being found guilty (given the evidence we've all seen, it's a strong possibility) then this reflects really, shockingly badly on everyone. Aside from that England are left without one of their best defenders ever, a hugely experienced player who has consistently been their top performer at World Cups since he came into the side, a player who oozes class and confidence and has the sort of ability on the ball that is virtually absent through the rest of the side.
The Micah Richards thing is bizarre that he was overlooked in the first place once Kyle Walker was injured. Daniel Taylor has written about the issue and he is quite close to things going on at the Manchester clubs and he suggests that Richards asked not to be considered for the standby list out of devastation, rather than anger, so he could go on holiday rather than sit around waiting for a call that might never come, having been overlooked constantly by Capello. Richards has flaws in his game but there is really no good footballing argument for Kelly being ahead of him in the squad, as Kelly is a 22 year old with barely any top level experience and is, at best, an unproven talent. Richards is only a year older, has much more experience and was excellent for much of this season. Like I said, Kelly's most notable performance for me this season was one of the worst halves of football I have ever seen from a professional footballer when he played in the game away to Blackburn. If Hodgson wanted to take players who "know his system" then maybe Bobby Zamora and Danny Murphy should be in the squad. That'd make more sense to be honest.
I'm also surprised more hasn't been made of Hodgson not even speaking to Paul Scholes as he didn't want to "run the risk of being rejected."
Last edited by El Capitano Gatisto; June 4th, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
When you mentioned it first time I wasn't so sure Kelly played in the away game at Blackburn in April as he was still injured. You're getting him mixed up with John Flanagan who had an absolute nightmare, should have been sent off before Kenny took him off.
http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/match/fixt...tch-statistics
Like I said Kelly early on in the season was playing well and didn't have a bad game really.
Ah right. Shows how much I know, I forgot they had two English right-backs with Irish names.
Still, the guy has played barely any top level football. The way he has ended up in the squad is mismanagement really. At best he won't get near the pitch, but that's less than ideal as the same can be said for Jones too.
I agree Rio wasn't picked in the first place because it was either him or Terry and while i would have picked Rio. I can understand Hodgson why he went with Terry as having three of the Chelsea back four would be easier to organise quicker as they are used to playing alongside each other on a weekly basis which is probably a reason Glen Johnson got the nod ahead of Richards as he used to play on a weekly basis with Cole and Terry. Now you could make a case that if Milner is going to be down the right then Richards should know his game pretty well but who knows why he's continually ignored maybe Stuart Pearce is influencing England managers by telling them about the problems he had with Richards at Man City and with the u-21's as i seem to recall they had a falling out there.
Well, according to the article I referred to, apparently Hodgson had Pearce call Richards to let him know he wouldn't be in the squad rather than doing it himself, so if they are on bad terms then that was not a good move.
Maybe Hodgson just doesnt rate Richards. There have been plenty of players better than him to have been left in the international wilderness in the past.
England squad is out.
No surprises really. Still no RichardsGoalkeepers: Jack Butland (Birmingham City), Joe Hart (Manchester City), John Ruddy (Norwich City).
Defenders: Leighton Baines (Everton), Ryan Bertrand (Chelsea), Gary Cahill (Chelsea), Ashley Cole (Chelsea), Phil Jagielka (Everton), Glen Johnson (Liverpool), Joleon Lescott (Manchester City), John Terry (Chelsea), Kyle Walker (Tottenham Hotspur).
Midfielders: Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Tom Cleverley (Manchester United), Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain (Arsenal), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Adam Johnson (Sunderland), Frank Lampard (Chelsea), James Milner (Manchester City), Theo Walcott (Arsenal).
Forwards: Andy Carroll (Liverpool), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham Hotspur), Daniel Sturridge (Chelsea), Danny Welbeck (Manchester United).
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