Allegations of sexually and financially exploiting women she trained in her school plus the fact she didn't drop the women's championship for years and years because she played politics.Originally Posted by Tim
Allegations of sexually and financially exploiting women she trained in her school plus the fact she didn't drop the women's championship for years and years because she played politics.
“In light of the controversy surrounding The Fabulous Moolah and her life, I decided to find everything I could on the subject and typed up this 6,000 word super post listing every terrible thing that Moolah has ever done with videos, interviews, quotes, and different sources to back everything up.”
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCirc...rrounding_the/
Excellent thread title.
I had no idea about her screwing Wendi Richter, if that is legit.
"The Original Screwjob". I didn't really know about it either until recently when Meltzer appeared on Talk is Jericho to discuss the Montreal Screwjob and mentioned the fact that Vince had previous with the Moolah/Richter incident. He also brought up this one, Gorgeous George vs. Don Eagle:
Ref counts Eagle despite him kicking out and makes a run for it much like Earl all those years later. Eagle loses it, goes for him and chases him down the aisle.
She's not a household name, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Women's Rumble named after someone like Leilani Kai. She was more of a Tag Team specialist, but she had a notable run in the WWE and held the Women's Title.
They should just name is The Michelle McCool Battle Royale because she Undertaker's wife.
Stephanie tweeted that the #WWEUNIVERSE caused them to drop The Fabulous Moolah's name, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mars, Incorporated had more to do with that decision being made.
I don't like the idea of the Women's battle royal, the Andre version has been a flop. They could of made the men's memorable or prestigious and yet every one has been forgettable and had winners that have done nothing with their win. They really should add some type of stipulation where the winner gets a title shot on Raw or SDL.
A stipulation would be nice, but really it's about trying to get as many people onto the Wrestlemania card as possible to get their payday and moment in the sun no matter how fleeting which is a kind gesture in itself.
Cornette weighs in on Moolah.
Bayley walks into a bar and bartender says how come the long face?
They should both definitely have a title shot attached. Could be a nice way to introduce a new challenger after Mania, even if only for one show. Crossbrand PPVs would make it perfectly fitting to have an underdog challenger getting their title shot where they don't have to carry the show.
Bayley eliminates Sasha to win, evening things up from the Chamber. Sasha goes to congratulate her and they're all buddy buddy again. Sasha sys "You got me, we're even." Then Sasha beats the absolute piss out of her, steel chair and all putting Bayley out of commission for a bit. Heel turn complete, the BOSS is back and the feud begins properly.
Nia beats Alexa for the title. Charlotte ends Asuka's streak. Women's Battle Royal winner in Naomi/the forever tease of Sasha/Bayley. Paige retires. Ember debuts. Iconic Duo debuts. Paige is the SD! GM. Carmella successfully cashes in. Becky has the cutest backstage video about eating quinoa. All of this within the past three days.
Discuss.
I'm so mad I missed Carmella cashing in MITB. I know a lot of people don't like her, but she's my favorite to watch
Paige as GM works for me (please get rid of the hair clip on the side and the red lipstick though, it's just not working for me, lol). SmackDown! definitely has the better Women's Division at this point and manage to showcase MORE women and have less time than RAW, mind-boggling. Rousey was amazing, was not keen on her joining WWE, but that match at 'Mania was flawless... Stephanie played her part to perfection... HOWEVER, Ronda was very protected in that match, we need to see her in there having a competitive one-on-one match with a legitimate female wrestler. As an indie wrestler, I find Tag Team Matches a lot easier because you can rest, you can rely on a partner if something goes off the rails, there's a lot more security most times... in a single's match, sometimes you gotta call shit on the fly, and I hope Ronda can do that because she really impressed me.
Charlotte Vs. Asuka, Nia Vs. Alexa... both were more entertaining than Nakamura and Styles, which saddens me because I was really looking forward to Nakamura Vs. Styles. My only gripe - two actually - is that John Cena ran up the ramp and backstage during Charlotte's celebration and I did not think that was the goddamn time or the place to put that in there. SMH. Also, I wish Charlotte had worked Asuka's legs a bit more before leading into the Figure Eight. It looked to me like they were told to take it home, so perhaps they ran out of time or were going long? Also, the Suplex to the outside... man, I read Charlotte's lips and swear she said "I can't breathe," it definitely looked like she got the wind knocked out of her, been there and done that, I've even made the same face... loved it though.
Ember Moon on RAW, wonder if she and Asuka will feud again? Carmella cashing in was predictable and brilliant, she was over as fuck, and I marked out when The Iconic Duo debuted... interesting they are just The Iconics, not the Iconic Duo... I'm pretty sure they left it like that so more members could be added in the future. THAT'S how you do a main roster call-up... unlike the dreadfully boring Riott Squad (which is sad because I LOVE Ruby and Liv.... BuffyRocks is gonna hate me, lol, but Sarah Logan can go somewhere else, I don't care, lol).
The Superstar Shake-Up is going to be interesting, considering it's the GM's and Commissioners trading talent rather than a random Draft (I'd prefer the original Draft, to be honest). I predict, with Paige the GM of SmackDown!, that Absolution is going to somehow find its way to SmackDown!... and I think it's a perfect time to move them, have them aligned with Paige, but turn them face and square-off against The Iconics. I predict that the Riott Squad may be traded for them, Riott Squad has pretty much faced everyone anyway at this point on SD! Sasha and Bayley will stay on RAW... but if one gets traded, I foresee them BOTH getting traded (Four Horsewomen on one brand for once?)... and things are REALLY going to be interesting with Paige as GM considering her history with the Four Horsewomen and being the woman who started the Revolution. We also don't know if more debuts will happen from NXT courtesy of the Shake-Up, so... yeah...
I'm really excited to see what's happening during the next week or so.
Paige as GM is cool, we'll see where it goes.
Iconic Duo...Peyton Royce is arguably the hottest female on the roster with Maria out. I liked the debut, hated what followed. Maybe that was the point but I'm also not a 10 year old fan. I see the "logic" in having Charlotte beat someone who was undefeated for 3 years only to lose 2 days later on some MITB shit. But I also would have been fine with maybe holding off on the cash in until the Asuka victory had some time to breathe.
Carmella cashing in cements that Charlotte is going to Raw in the Superstar Shakeup.
Does it? I can't say that it cements her going to Raw because I could see her being used as a way to really establish Peyton, Billie Kaye, and Carmella. Seems like a lot of work just to trade someone to Raw. Nia Jax v. Charlotte is probably a match the homegrown fans are looking at though so I could definitely see that. Also if Asuka stays on Raw I could see the move being a positive one for sure.
It didn't strike me as a move to have Charlotte going to Raw. Charlotte is going to be pissed that The Iconics basically ruined her promo time, beat her down, and cost her the championship. They creatively found a way to get to a match basically everyone wanted to see in Asuka and Charlotte. Unless they're wanting to hot shot towards Charlotte and Rousey, it doesn't make a lot of sense to have them on the same brand and NOT interact. At this rate, there's legit money in getting towards Charlotte and Rousey at Mania so if that's the case, keep them apart until the time is right to pull the trigger.
What are the odds that the WWE can maintain Ronda Rousey on a positive path long enough to justify her main eventing WrestleMania? I mean, honestly, I think that is one of the biggest RUMORS I've heard in forever. And it was going on before we even saw her wrestle, and it's like we saw her tear it up against someone capable. I loved the match but I also loved Vince v. Shawn and thought it was the best match on the card that night. And it wasn't because Vince was on the same level as Shawn.
So I'll hold out on buying into this huge rumor until we see something more out of R3. Her and Charlotte main eventing WrestleMania 35 isn't hard to imagine but it's hard to imagine the WWE being 100% down with that idea so early in the game. Basically Ronda is a rookie who hit her first 3 point shot and now the dirt sheets think she's going to be Jordan.
While it would be ideal to keep Ronda on a consistent upward trajectory, it's just a matter of timing the crescendo just right. Even then, it's not necessarily imperative to do so. The idea of Natalya beating Charlotte two weeks prior to Mania was highly-questionable booking. That said, it didn't devalue the match between Charlotte and Asuka. I can't imagine people were saying "wait, you lost to her, but you were able to beat someone who never had been beaten before?" Charlotte had a body of work and stature that made the match Sunday a big deal, regardless of what happened shortly before it. So, it really doesn't make or break if they keep Rousey on a path for the duration. As long as she looks like a badass, and they find a way to make things workable on the mic for her, she'll be fine.
I think people measured her probability based on she had never wrestled and how hit or miss she was in terms of timing and tone on the mic. Granted, that's all they had to work off of because that's what was being presented, but that had absolutely nothing to do with what was happening Sunday. Yes, she had probably dozens or hundreds of hours worth of time to prep that match, but you still have to take into account retaining everything in front of 75,000 people. That's no easy task and could've swallowed people up. She wasn't just going through spots either, she held her own with everything she had to do in there. Unless someone is just a massive hater, I would think most everyone would say she looks like she should or could be a legit entertainer in the ring if she keeps to it.
I get holding ground on the assertion the match at Mania can happen, but it's looking much more likely as a possibility than it did before Sunday, based on how she looked.
Honeymoon phase. The bar was set so low for her that what she accomplished in a fluff match that it has the dirt sheets, fans, and everyone in between gassing up her performance and connecting that to some rumor that she's now going to main event Mania next year. The match was very entertaining but like I said, let's see how she does in a less protected environment. And this audience is very unforgiving so they're not going to let her slide with being as good as Dana Brooke. Now they're going to be expecting Asuka level because a lot of fans don't see certain matches in different lights.
They're not seeing Ronda/Angle v. The McMahon-Helmsley Era as being different than Charlotte v. Asuka. They think "Oh she did good in a fluff match where she didn't have to do much, she's main eventing!" The idea is there but it's just too early to start thinking this girl is a future Mania main eventer.
It's really not, considering the mainstream attention she gets and her potential upside/ability to improve.
We'll see where the mainstream attention is at in 3 months. We'll see where her wrestling skill is at barely a year into actually training, where her mic skills are at.
Yeah the media was all up her ass making this big jump but again, honeymoon phase.
I'm inclined to agree with Nash.
And let me state (and I am sure you feel this way, too): I absolutely want Ronda to succeed! She's super athletic, is clearly a fast study, has positive mainstream buzz, and seems to genuinely love the business. But to say she should main event WM next year seems a bit wild at the moment.
We have to also remember: Ronda's match with Steph at WM was pretty darn solid because they'd been training and planning that very much since late January. One would hope with almost three months of training and preparing for one match (with no other house show or televised matches), that it would go off beautifully. Like others have said, I am more interested to see Ronda mix it up on a weekly basis, with more experienced workers. The potential is absolutely there.
I'm a fan of Rousey. I want her to do well. I want her to be able to live up to the expectations of the fans and her peers. What I can't do is honestly look at her and go Yep, she'll be main eventing WM. Dude, I don't even see her main eventing Extreme Rules let alone a big 4. But then again, John Cena v. Johnny Ace main evented a ppv while CM Punk, the champ, worked the midcard....
How good would that match have been if it were just Rousey v. Stephanie? There was so much more to that match than just Ronda Rousey showing up. You had Triple H selling for her. 2 years ago he was main eventing as the World champion, a year ago he had a really good match with Seth Rollins, this year he can't even reverse a hip toss lol.
Exactly. Like, if was only a year and a half ago that women were the main event of a PPV (not even one of the big 4), and unless you count the Women's Rumble, they haven't (to my knowledge) done it since. And really, I am all for being proven wrong about this. By all means, have Charlotte and Ronda main event WM next year and let it be the best match on the card. I personally just don't think someone who will have had at most a year and a half of training will be ready to headline WM in a singles match.
But if it is good for business and good for the advancement of the women and their divisions, I guess go for it?
If Ronda is capable, if she's as good as say Carmella....Charlotte can carry her even if it's the main event. But there's more to main eventing WrestleMania, or main eventing in general, than some publicity going into your first match coming from a totally different sport. I'm more worried about her mic work and ability to actually entertain. Maybe putting Heyman with her would be a smart move. I mean, people can't carry 90% of the feuds and expect fans to ride that wave a full year from now.
She talked today about her grandfather and father committing suicide. That is especially tragic because she was 8 when her dad killed himself after suffering a weird back injury while he was sledding with his kids. That stuff is hard to overcome, at least I can only imagine it is.
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/...tting-suicide/
Something I just thought about when thinking back to Smackdown, just to further add more throwing of dirt on Absolution and The Riot Squad: The Iconics have probably done more to make an impact just in their debut than those two groups have probably done combined. The IIconics came off great on the mic and took out a champion.
*IIconics
Also, I really hope the Riott Squad is done so Ruby can get some more solo spotlight.
Absolution destroyed most of the RAW Women's roster including Bliss when they debuted. The difference is that the Iconic Duo cost Charlotte the title which will be talked about for a while.
Yeah Absolution had a Shield-vibe going until Paige had to retire.
Absolution was absolutely headed for big things prior to Paige's retirement.
I see Ronda main eventing WM. Why I'm thinking it happens:
The WWE wants to have women main eventing WM moment. They just did Asuka vs. Charlotte. Where else they gonna go with this?
She got a lot of positive press coming out of Wrestlemania. WWE will fully anticipate her getting lots of attention if she can become champion in the WM main event next year.
She is training, and so far, i see no reason to expect Ronda to not be able to put on at least few matches of decent quality. If this planned ahead, Ronda and Charlotte have lots of time off camera to practice.
They are going to push her to the moon at every opportunity between now and then.
Somehow I wasn't aware that Sonya Deville came out at WrestleMania. Makes sense why her outfit had Rainbows all over it. I thought she was just paying tribute to Captain EO
Sonya's been out for a while now, they just never acknowledge it on TV.
Somehow I wasn't aware that Sonya Deville came out at WrestleMania. Makes sense why her outfit had Rainbows all over it. I thought she was just paying tribute to Captain EOShe came out on Tough Enough.
Nah, Charlotte is moving to Raw. It was fairly masterful use of the MITB contract actually.
Billie & Peyton attacking Charlotte wasn't setting a feud up for the short term, it was getting heat on them and allowing the cash in to seem feasible. Charlotte will go to Raw and if rumours are believed will run into Rousey sooner or later, with the rub of breaking Asuka's streak behind her.
Carmella is a perfect transition Champion. I'd imagine that Becky or Asuka will win that title in the next few weeks.
I think there's a very strong chance that Ronda vs. Charlotte main events Wrestlemania next year.
To do it right though, Charlotte has to turn. We need full on, better than everyone, high and mighty, brutal, mean and nasty heel Charlotte. And once they start the program it needs to be one of those deals where Charlotte just keeps getting over on Ronda. Over and over.
To the point that the crowd is foaming at the mouth for Ronda to not just face off with Charlotte but to fucking annihilate her. The payoff can't just be a championship. It has to be personal. They need to treat that angle with respect. It could be monumental.
I'm not really into face Charlotte. Heel Charlotte is the shit, though. Looking forward to her turning back and yeah, that's what she needs to be for the Rousey feud.
So what happened with Ronda being just like everyone else? I didn't believe it but I just thought shit, we might actually have a name like Ronda around weekly putting in work. Instead, it's going to be some Lesnar shit.
I have faith that Ronda will work exceptionally hard to improve.
I'd like to see her in a program for 2-3 months with Nattie first, then maybe someone like Naomi. I think Nattie could teach her a lot.
Wait, is Rhonda no longer full time? I was curious to see how they'd keep the mystique with her working a full schedule.
I'm not really sure what she has going on that would prevent her from living up to the comments that she would be full time. Maybe that was never even confirmed by someone who mattered, could have just been she said something that was twisted into her being a full-timer.
I know she has Mile 22 coming out in July but other than that.....I guess stick to training. Who knows. even after a year of training and mapping out the Mania match months in advance, she might not be ready to work a match solo.
The one thing I thought of was why not just have her work matches like Goldberg? They'd look so much like her UFC fights. Come out and 30 seconds later it's over. Then as she gets more comfortable, you start adding time to the matches.
She's learning how to wrestle. She can't do that and work every TV show. And even if she did, what would be the point until she knows how to work a match?
And as I said, which you for some odd reason left out, was that maybe the whole thing about her being full time and this and that was not true.....I mean for fuck's sake guy, you literally have your answer to this question if you had idk read the entire post.
*Cue "it was too long" response*
I think I'm missing a few posts and/or context... is Ronda now not going to be a full time performer?
The entire thing about her being full time is true though. But she needs to learn how to wrestle before she can be a wrestler. Same as all the other wrestlers on TV.
There's nothing to suggest that she's not going to be a full time wrestler once she knows how to wrestle.
Regardless of her actual status contractually, the easiest thing to do for the time being would be to have Stephanie suspend Rousey for what she did. Gets more heat, allows Ronda to train more, and then get a big pop for whenever she comes back.
So, as of now, the RAW Women's division has 16 active women (including Alicia Fox in that), while the SD! division has 8 (including Tamina in that). I actually see RAW keeping a pretty large number, as I think the Women's Tag Title is going to debut by SummerSlam. RAW has an additional hour to showcase the women, so it makes more sense for the belt to at least start over there (I say start, because the rumor is that it will be defended on both brands).
I think they should bring Sasha, Bayley, Mickie James, and Asuka over to SD!, and Nikki Cross will obviously debut with Sanity over on SD! soon. This gives SD! a smaller, but star powered division with all of the 4HW, Asuka, and the IIconics, and let's many of the newer or yet to be established women on RAW find their footing without being overshadowed by the 4HW, or being fed to Asuka.
Also, a division with Becky, Charlotte, Sasha, and Bayley can have plenty of side feuds that don't involve the title, while Carmella can have some feuds with Naomi and Mickie, before maybe dropping the title to Peyton (and eventually having Mickie beat Peyton for her 7th title win).
Or something totally different can happen, too.
The main page said recently that she will in fact NOT be a full-time performer. As I said, I wonder if something that was said about her employment status was twisted and made to think she was going to be a full-timer but in fact she's not. We'll see if Beefy's idea that she's going to become a full-time performer once she gets more training.
Keep in mind, and maybe Beefy missed this part several times, but she's been training for over a year. How consistent that training was I'm not sure.
She has movies and all kinds of other shit going on. No way she's ever on more than 8-12 Raws in a row without leaving for a month or more.
What movies and all kinds of other shit? The only thing she MIGHT have going on in the distant future is a remake of Roadhouse. That was supposed to go down like 2 years ago and it's STILL sitting on the shelf because she's terrible. Other than that, I don't see what she has going other than promoting that upcoming movie she's sort of in with Marky Mark, but that isn't for another 3 months when that drops.
So I hope she's using this time wisely. Which I feel she is. Get her down in promo class with NXT talent, she's not going to learn how to talk hanging out with Natalya who's arguably the shittiest talker the women have.
But c'mon, you have to love how Natalya delivers everything like it's an 80s promo?
You know what her promos remind me of? Did you ever take drama class? My drama teacher was this over the top lady who probably thought her performance in the 1967 high school musical of Peter Pan as one of the Lost Boys was Tony Award worthy. Then she would be like "Here's how you say your lines" and just give this almost parody like performance....That's what I think of when Nattie cuts a promo.
But c'mon, you have to love how Natalya delivers everything like it's an 80s promo?
Like she's a forgotten 80's B-movie Class of Nuke 'Em High uncredited actress auditioning for the remake of the Grapes of Wrath. With a cat stuffed up her butt.
Literally most perfect example of her. Ever. But it is also a reason why I kind of love her. She is full of cheese and at this point, you have to think she realizes it and just goes with it.
She just cracks me up. As a professional opera singer, her acting is about in line with what I see on a pretty regular basis (we aren't hired for our acting ability, that's for sure), so I feel for her. And laugh at, erm, with her and her cheesy delivery.
I love her acting for the reasons Buffy brought up. In a babyface role, it's pretty bad, but I think it translates to a heel role perfectly. It's like she thinks she's so great at everything and puts so much emphasis into it that it becomes less than great. And that makes you want to see her get her ass kicked. But that's where the package comes together, because she can deliver in the ring. At least enough to help get her opponent over.
In that sense, I think she makes a great opponent for Ronda. Maybe not a great promo opposite, but definitely a good in-ring rival.
As a heel it does work. But it works because it's so bad. You can tell that she hasn't been really given a lot of promo time over the years because they are so repetitive and wooden in delivery. You hear her talk outside of that environment and she's a chatty kathy but on t.v. it's very Hayden Clone Wars.
Nia Jax on her absence last year (via Sports Illustrated interview):
"That was the craziest thing I've ever heard! The fact that people would think that Dwayne would ever tell me to not do something for the WWE, a place that's actually given him his start and the reason he is on top of the world, it's completely false and hilarious.
It has nothing to do with that at all. It wasn't something that was that big of a deal. I had actually had an injury that happened to me personally on a flight—an overhead bag fell directly on top of my head while I was on a plane. I was out of it, I was completely out of it. I'm not kidding you. It was just something where I had to go and make sure I was okay and rest up. It was right before a tour. All it was, was just like, 'Hey, you're not the storyline right now. Go take a break. Make sure you're okay, and then come back for tour.' That was it. That was the bottom line. That was the story."
So, did Nia deny that Dwayne told her to take some time off to heal up when she was out of it? Or was she just saying the story about her unhappiness with the story direction being the crazy part.
I had just assumed that she was hurt when she was gone. I figured it was her knees or something. She has lost a lot of matches (as I recall, most of them) all with the same formula of her opponent taking out one of her knees to get her down. She plays the part of lumbering giantess very well.
And for her sake, I am glad that she didn't come along 10-15 years ago. For a long time, the Big Show took a lot of chair shots because the writers seemed to think it was only way to take out someone as big as him. They would have been tempted to do the same with Nia.
Yeah, the rumor was that Rock told her to leave because she wasn't happy with her storylines. That's what she's talking about at the beginning of the quote.
So with Ember winning tonight (in an awesome match between her, Sasha, and Ruby), who do y'all hope the other 7 women will be? Assuming they do 4 women from each brand, I would love to see Ember, Sasha, Bayley, and Mickie from RAW, and Charlotte, Becky, Asuka, and Peyton from SD!. I'm sure Ruby will be Nia's first challenger, while Naomi would be a good challenger for Carmella.
Ember, Sasha and Ruby tore it down on Raw. Ruby and Ember both came away looking like they belong in the ring at the top level as Sasha (although she still telegraphs her moves a bit too unnaturally).
I am presuming they will keep Ronda away from this (and that may mean Nattie as well). So I would be fine with your picks.
If there are two suitable replacements for Raw, I'd put those in place and finally pay off Sasha/Bayley with a legit match on the PPV.
That would be amazing for them, as I always say Bayley vs Sasha is money, and from a technical standpoint is more exciting (to me) than any Askua/Charlotte/Ronda combo. But I would also hate for Bayley and Sasha to miss an 8 woman ladder match, as they'd surely create memorable moments.
Again, it's entirely dependent on them having two people worthy of being in the match from Raw. I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm sure it's possible. If you've got 6-8 talents from both the men and women invested in two matches...you need suitable matches to fill out your card. I have to imagine they see Sasha/Bayley being one that can fit.
Didn't expect a Rousey title shot so early but I'm guessing it's to sell tickets.
I imagine so too.
Meltzer continued to allude to the fact that Toni Storm is still set up for, at the very least, working the NXT shows in June in the UK. That said, he's under the impression she'll be signed to WWE if not sooner rather than later.
She's good and I hope we get to see her in the WWE sooner than later. 22 years old, that's like 43 in WWE years for women.
Interesting point. Let's look at the numbers. Unofficial list of all the WWE woman wrestlers (or those I assume will wrestle (again) at some point.
Alexa - 26
Alicia Fox - 31
Bayley - 28
Dana Brooks - 29
Ember Moon - 29
Liv Morgan - 23
Mickie James - 38
Nattie - 35
Nia Jax - 33
Ronda Rousey - 31
Ruby Riot - 27
Sarah Logan - 24
Sasha Banks - 26
Carmella - 30
Asuka - 36
Becky Lynch - 31
Bille Kay - 28
Lana - 33
Mandy Rose - 26
Maria Kanellis - 36
Naomi - 30
Peyton Royce - 25
Sonya Deville - 24
Tamina - 40
Zelina Vega - 27
I think that makes the unofficial average age of WWE female talent 30 years old.
I'll admit. I'm surprised by that. I would've guessed more like 26 or 27.
Meltzer updated this to say she has signed a UK contract with WWE. He further clarified saying she signed a UK, not an NXT deal for the time being so she's going to be primarily used for the UK shows they will be taping.
I'm going to say this and you can quote me down the road but Peyton Royce is going to be the biggest female star of her generation. I think she will surpass the current top females and be a huge start outside the WWE as well. I'm excluding Ronda from this claim as she was already mega established in the world.
Because...?
Nash, do you not consider Charlotte part of her generation?
Her look, her quick ability to progress, very very charismatic, mic work is solid. She's only 25, the sky is the limit. 2 years ago I looked at her and thought "She'll never make it, Liv Morgan will be main eventing Mania before Peyton gets called up". Now, there's just something about her. I know I'm jumping the gun here, but that doesn't I'm going to be wrong.
I do and I believe Peyton will be a bigger star than Charlotte. What's Charlotte achieved outside of the wrestling bubble? Peyton, IMO, is destined for bigger things than just what we find huge in the wrestling world.
This is not me saying Peyton will be considered the best wrestler of her generation. I'm saying she will surpass them all sans Ronda. And who knows, maybe she will surpass Ronda. Ken Shamrock came in to the WWF from the UFC a huge name, and eventually The Rock surpassed him by a million miles.
I love me some Peyton
I will say, the odds of ND's prediction feel like they get even more daunting if Rousey/Flair main event next year's Mania, which I've always thought is a high possibility. The TV deal could change that though, because I do think they'll need to place a stronger emphasis on having marquee matchups/feuds pay off on TV. Not all, but some.
Hey, I'm just calling my shot. You guys are looking at today, or a year from today, I'm saying it could be 2-3 maybe even 5 years before my prediction comes to fruition. Just like when Jim Cornette saw The Rock in 1995 and told Vince that he was going to be his biggest star.
Yeah, but next year could very well be a monumental or generational moment that could very well live on like other milestones in the past, thus really putting a dent in your assessment.
It's all really just a stance that really won't bear any significant substance until far down the road, haha.
Exactly, which is why I didn't say "In the year 2019, Peyton Royce will be the biggest name out of her peers like Sasha, Charlotte, Nia, Asuka, etc."
*Obvious sarcasm*
Way to wuss out and not put a timeframe on it, haha.
So what you're saying is... Peyton's going to be bigger than The Rock after 2019? Wow, ND. That's absolutely mental.
hehe
Peyton RoyceYou been at the cool aid ND?
She is good, but she is miles off those at the top end. Four Horsewomen and Ember Moon for a start.
Nikki Cross is someone I think could make an impact.
On the ages, how is Alicia Fox only 31?! She has been with WWE what 12 years?
I am also surprised at how old Maria is
lol damn right. I would say in 5 years at the most.
Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying
..............
And again...I never once stated WHEN she would surpass everyone. We need to stop acting like The 4 Horsewomen are somehow Sable famous. 5 years ago if you told me that Sasha Banks would be where she is I would have fucking died of laughter. Even Charlotte I would have been like, whatever, based on how they were performing.Peyton Royce
She is good, but she is miles off those at the top end. Four Horsewomen and Ember Moon for a start.
Nikki Cross is someone I think could make an impact.
On the ages, how is Alicia Fox only 31?! She has been with WWE what 12 years?
I am also surprised at how old Maria is
Peyton is someone who like I said I didn't think would ever amount to anything just 2 years ago. She's grown so much in just the last year. Sky's the limit.
This is captain obvious statement, but this is just a subjective point of view to me. I think I vaguely remember you being non-enthused about her but I could already see she was (at worst) competent in the ring and that was more than enough to stand out because that was when the division was raided by the call-ups. I believe she had a match with Asuka and it wasn't a disaster. That's one example I can think of from NXT. Asuka carried her but she didn't look like she was completely lost at sea. Then it was time for Peyton to build heat, she didn't look clunky or out of sorts. That clearly showed potential and a starting point that at this point seemed underrated to you, haha.
Thinking back, it seemed like the outlet they were given for their own unique promos (which is now exhausted on the main roster with the selfie promos) felt much more authentic and gave both Peyton and Billie Kay time for exposition.
Think you're just late to the party, haha. That said, I think your assessment seems like a stretch.
Peyton is great and I enjoy her a lot.
To say she will represent this generation rather than Charlotte, Asuka, Sasha, Bayley, Becky, and Ember is a bit strange. This also with Nikki Cross doing some great work and a very underrated division on NXT.
So I guess what I am saying is that I disagree with Nash, but that's his opinion I guess. She will definitely do more than Billie Kay because Kay is kind of shit in the ring and not nearly as good on the mic.
I think some of you are still just looking at it from a POV of "where is TODAY in comparison with her peers" and that's not fair to her when everyone has a lot more experience than she does. And I also think you need to also look beyond work rate. The most popular female wrestlers of all time were not known for being on the level of Charlotte or Asuka for example. I think as she develops, she will become the total package that allows her to branch off and build bridges toward other avenues of entertainment to benefit the WWE.
Ember Moon for example. She can go in the ring, no question. But she lacks charisma. She has no natural flow to her promos and she comes across very wooden.
So again, too much focus on in-ring work because when Austin, Rock, Cena, etc. were the top guys they weren't the best technical wrestlers. No, that was the likes of Benoit, Eddie, Angle and so on. Same with the women, Trish, Lita, they weren't as good as Victoria and Jazz in the ring but still were mad popular.
Nah, I am looking at it in the future, and I just am not seeing how she would be able to be the woman to do that.
Get her on Total Divas to see what she looks like there. So far she hasn't really done much more than the Mean Girls act and that won't get her there. She hasn't shown the versatility that other women have which is why I don't think she will develop to where you are thinking.
I would almost go as far as saying that no matter what she will never be better than Charlotte is today.
The real important question is...,which one of the IIconics would you tap first?
She's already better than Charlotte was at this same exact stage of her career in terms of mic work. Charlotte is actually still somewhere in the middle for me with the promos as more often than not she sounds very very robotic, especially as a face.
Why would she need to get on Total Divas? How has that show improved a single person that's ever been on it? Literally every name that was on your list has never been on Total Divas.......Kind of an odd suggestion.
Again, you're looking at things from what you're seeing that she's doing right now. "The mean girls act won't get her there" I sort of agree, but it's not like everyone stays on the same exact path their entire WWE career. Sable went from a valet to the cover of TV guide. Trish went from valet to being considered one of the most influential women in the business. Again, I doubt anyone was going "Oh Sable, yeah she's going to be one of our top 3 draws during the peak of our business". If they did, they deserve infinite blowjobs lol.
Billie seems like the bigger freak but Peyton is who I'd tap first because I doubt I'd get another chance if I didn't.
While I'm hesitant to get behind Nash's prediction that Peyton is going to be a huge star, eclipsing every other woman in the Division, I do think she will be successful. Why? Because she's pretty, she can talk, and doesn't completely stink in the ring. Lana had the first 2, but she's an utter travesty in the ring so that killed her push. Alexa is average in the ring and nails the first 2 criteria, so she got the golden ticket.
This discussion reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately. The biggest problem in the Women's Division is the cycle they've set up. They bring up some new women, push them a bit, then get bored, and only focus on maybe 1 of them. Then a year later, they bring up some more women, push them a bit, get bored, and maybe focus on 1 of them. Almost none of the women have a chance to establish themselves before the next batch is called up. None of the matches are exciting because the shiny new call ups are wrestling a bunch of women with very little heat.
Do Sasha, Becky, or Bayley feel like big deals? You could make a case for Sasha because she's a 4 time Women's Champ and she did have the epic feud with Charlotte, but she's done nothing significant in over a year. Does Asuka still feel like a big deal? I don't mind that her undefeated streak ended, but it does feel like she's lost allot of heat, and Rhonda will over shadow her. Do the Riott Squad feel like they've made any sort of impact? Even though Riott's good in the ring, they're just another boring Stable.
There are only 3 women who've made any sort of impact in the last 3 yrs: Charlotte, Alexa, and Carmella. The rest of the Division is nowhere near their level.
It certainly feels there's ebbs and flows towards the interest of the different divisions, at least serving towards the depth of them. To me, Smackdown had it clicking on all cylinders at the start of 2017. They had three different feuds/storylines going on at the same time and they were completely separate from each other. It can be done. It's just a matter of them being committed to telling stories that are worth telling for a period of time.
Let me put it to you this way....As much as I was rock hard over Charlotte v. Asuka....Didn't it feel like that match was at the bottom of the 3 for Mania? Even now, Charlotte's really lost a lot of steam since moving to Smackdown. I'm not the only one who agrees with that either.
And people are like "Oh this Ronda v. Charlotte match it will main event Mania". Based on..........? Because I'm like you, I notice the trend as well and it's what makes my prediction probably seem crazy to a lot of people. How do we know the WWE will still have interest in her 2-3 years from now? We don't. Hell it seemed like prior to Charlotte and Sasha main eventing shows that they were souring on the division again and the next thing you know boom, Charlotte v. Sasha main eventing in a Hell In A Cell match on ppv.
Peyton right now, in her early stages, has just as much going for her if not more than any female who's debuted sans Ronda in the last 5-6 years. Maybe even longer because I'm thinking of AJ Lee and even she wasn't someone that I could have predicted would get as super over as she did.
Okay let me rephrasecthe question.
You are Batman. If the Riddler set up a trap where you could save one of them and bang them while the other falls to their death. Who would it be?
Bottom of what 3?
The difference is the type of prognosticating. Yours is built on potential and upside and the unknown, while the idea of Rousey and Flair is built on actual marketing material, bankability of one and pedigree of the other. I don't think your prediction is crazy because it could happen, but we don't have anything remotely close indicating there's that much to bank of her specifically. We can use other people as examples, but that doesn't mean that instantly relates to her. With Rousey and Flair, they are who they are and they either are big deals or could instantly be made into one based off what they have done.
That's true. It was still at the early stages of the Brand Split and Smackdown went live, so they were putting in more effort than usual. However, one of those storylines involved a returning Nikki Bella, and there was no way she wouldn't get allot of attention. It was right after 'Mania when they started putting in less effort.
Are you kidding? If I was Batman, I'd figure out a way to bang both of them and throw in the Riddler for good measure
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