That buckle spot w/ Nia and Kairi was scary, and it also pissed me off. Nia is the flat out worst, not because she's slow and weak... but because she's done this to so many others already. She's smashed Becky's face... janked Bayley's shoulder... dropped Zelina on her face to the outside... she dropped Charlotte straight on her her head after a sloppy shoulder breaker... the list goes on. Goddamn she sucks.
If it was anybody else, she'd be out the goddamn door yesterday.
I've watched that clip probably 10 times I have no idea what anyone is talking about. The only "botch" was that Nia dropped her too far from the turnbuckles so Kairi barely hit them making it look a little weak.
It's fucking laughable how some of you are thinking this was on the same level as what happened with Rolllins v. Sting or even some of Nia's more apparent carelessness. I said it yesterday, show me a wrestler who hasn't been stiffed in a punch.
We're reaching Ryback/Goldberg territory where a guy like CM Punk can botch a move every match and damn near shatter people's faces with his carelessness, but Ryback drops him hard through a table and Ryback is suddenly a botch monkey.
I'll just let Alvarez explain it since he lays it out pretty well.Originally Posted by Nash Diesel
LMFAO
This fucking guy. First off let's not even talk about the weird co-host......Second, I love how he spent all that time on Nia Jax and glossed over Charlotte...You know, the person who fucked up Kairi back at TLC.
And when you hear that thing go "It sounded like Kairi said 'I'm not set'" Yeah, I'm sure you heard that you fucking mark. The chick barely speaks clear English and you just so happened to possibly hear "I'm not set". Bryan Alvarez is a clown for one. "I have a list of wrestlers I would never work with" The ego of this guy to act like anyone even knew he wrestled once upon a time.
Bro, did you even see Kairi backstage after her match? She's lucky she could even speak.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TEqG9tl_FM
Last edited by VHS; April 22nd, 2020 at 12:21 PM.
Yeah I saw her backstage in catering......
I get that half the roster being from ROH and New Japan that the art of selling has been lost but I'd like to imagine that if Kairi was acting like she did pre-Nia Jax match and nothing was wrong, that'd be the wrong message to send. I don't know. Let's ask Bryan Alvarez and his infinite wisdom on wrestling.......
That powerbomb spot landed nasty but I thought Kairi took it well.
I'm wondering what Nia's role is, face or heel? Kairi and Asuka are clearly heels, but Nia wrestled in the heel role.
I have missed Nia, and am glad she's back.
This Raw had plenty of women's matches - Shayna was boring vs Hartwell, Liv Morgan v Ruby Riott was okay, but these two have been lost since they appeared on the roster, and Jax v. Sane was watchable. Charlotte vs. Carter was just another squash (but Carter trying hard to avoid touching Charlotte's breasts was amusing), and then for some reason we needed another squash in Belair v. Garrett. Plus we got Lana, as well as plenty of Zelina Vega.
Watched the Riott/Morgan highlight clip on Youtube and even that 3 mins was pretty damn solid. They really fumbled the Riott Squad imploding but then, they've fumbled the group all through their run, really. Could've made their shit a focal point of the Chamber and then blow off everything with a triple threat at Mania, on the preshow at least. Then you could have Liv come out of it a stronger, more polished face and Riott a more threatening heel. Ah well, regardless, Liv is really coming along and putting it together. Riott remains criminally underrated. Would please me to see this match again for the Championship someday.
I mean he IS a wrestler...
And? That doesn't mean he's the end all be all. Again, he pointed out that Charlotte botched an elbow smash for about 4 seconds before going on and on for 5 minutes about Nia Jax.
Are you a wrestler?
Charlotte ...yeah she gets to powerbomb concussed girls through tables; they trust her enough to carry the strap.
Jack Gallagher now plays the resident Ikeda but he's not just working stiff/taking liberties, 'cause he's still a little man in the company.
It seems natural that Nia Jax be in the doghouse after taking liberties with a dangerous spot. I wasn't paying full attention to the match but I winced. Something odd about that move.
Who said he was?
I think its fair to say that a wrestler would at least have some knowledge of such things though? I mean an elbow smash being botched, by its very nature is not as dangerous.
Yes.
An elbow isn't as dangerous as a "botch" that we don't know the real result of? I can promise you, an elbow is just as if not more dangerous than what supposedly happened to Kairi.
I think it's fair to say that most people commenting on this aren't wrestlers yet some are coming to the same conclusion as Alvarez. I mean, he's never booked a promotion ever and yet he acts like his handful of indy matches qualify him to talk like he has all this knowledge. So naw, I don't just go "Oh well he's a wrestler he's right".
This is what Crude4Life wrote on 13.07.2017:
[0.0] "No way should this guy have a rating above a two. He's an absolute mark. He never is just erible i mean come on seriously man hes a nobody and has always been a nobody and he just talks crap online all the time and oh my god can you seriously sit there and tell me hes a good worker because hes not lets be honest hes an absolute fool, an absolute fool, his work sucks and he cant cut a promo Ill take Glacier over him anyday or even The Cat Ernest Miller or Hornswoggle or Jinder Mahal or Booker T or Koko B Ware or Dan Spivey or Tracey Smothers." at cagematch.net
Bryan Alvarez has a working knowledge of pro-wrestling, from actually being involved in wrestling matches. If anyone in "wrestling journalism" knows about how to work safe and who does and doesn't work safe, it should be the guy who wrestled before.
Nia Jaxx's botch on Kairi was bad. That could very easily result in a fucked up back or a fucked up neck. Either or both.
A botched back elbow is bad, too. You can kill somebody if you elbow them just right, especially in the nose.
But Charlotte doesn't have the extensive track record of being a big, botchy bitch like Nia does. Nia is dangerous. Just because Bryan is a prick and a little abrasive, it doesn't mean he isn't right.
Worth noting something that I don't think anyone has pointed out yet. If you don't think Kairi saying "I'm not set" was clear, you CAN hear a male voice saying something like "she said she wasn't set" right after the bump.
Why doesn't Kairi bear any responsibility for not getting set quickly? From a match flow perspective, it sucks to have a big person pick someone up, then have to wait while they get ready to take a bump. It makes it look like if the person who was picked up had all that time, why don't they try to get away, or wiggle out, or distract the opponent somehow with an elbow to the ear?
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see anyone truly get hurt, I just want to be able to lose myself in the storyline.
She could have been set a split second later, not a match breaker allowing someone that luxury.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it was Charlotte who fucked up Kairi Sane in the TLC match, right?
What I don't want to get lost in this "discussion" is that I'm a fan of Nia Jax or that I don't agree that she has fucked people up in the past. But I think that there's clearly a bias when someone who was a wrestler is being used as the go-to when he shrugged off Charlotte so easily and just literally talked shit for 5 minutes about Jax. To our knowledge nobody was hurt and the idea that it COULD HAVE been worse is fucking comedy in pro wrestling.
Sami Zayn was out for 8 months throw up his arms during his entrance.
And the only person who dictates who is SET is Nia in that move. She's controlling everything. Kairi had zero control so the idea that someone would be saying Kairi wasn't set to take the move makes zero sense. You don't need to have wrestled (apparently everyone who has ever wrestled is an expert) to understand the basics. I don't need to have played in the NFL to understand a vicious tackle.
I thought Becky's exploder into the barrier is how Kairi got injured, but I never saw anyone clarifying what happened in that match.
In my opinion, "comedy in pro wrestling" is kind of another way of saying "not actually funny" ...
An actual powerbomb without help from the person getting powerbombed is likely a dangerous powerbomb. I've seen them happen, but WWE wrestling is usually professional to a certain degree. No piledrivers, remember...
I really, really want to like Nia Jax. She has a great look. I mean, I am queer as fuck, but I can easily see she's a beautiful woman. Plus, she has a unique size of being both tall and large, which if packaged correctly could be really wonderful, both as a heel or a face. And she's fine on the mic, and like many others, I am sure if she spoke more she'd get better.
But her list of "oops I almost injured you" moments always gives me pause. I'm not sure if it is even her being unsafe (certainly no one in WWE these days is intentionally unsafe). It's almost like she gets really into the moment/match, and her body moves faster than her brain, all likely with the intention of making the match look more believable. Though, she has certainly gained a reputation on the interwebs as being "unsafe" or "botchy" so I do feel like her matches are often scrutinized to a higher degree than others.
I don't know, y'all. I'm oddly torn on this one and I don't think I have much insight to offer to this discussion.
I'm unsure if there has ever been 100% confirmation on what concussed Kairi, but Charlotte definitely did her version of the Becksploder into the barrier on Kairi. Did Becky do one, too?
I don't honestly remember. I just recall Kairi's head snapping against the ground.
Becky did one that looked pretty rough yeah.
I think Charlotte should get more flack for slapping the shit out of Kairi after she didn't take the spear correctly
Ever see a wrestler pick up their opponent and then put them back down so they can get a better grip? That's not a match breaker either. They're putting the safety of their opponent first instead of just following through and potentially hurting them.
That was when Charlotte gave Kairi a Fallaway Slam to the barricade.
If that's the case then that powerbomb through the table was kind of funny, wasn't it?...
You can't fake gravity. Let's keep that into perspective. And again, anyone have any idea if Sane was even hurt? Let's pretend it was a botch, where's the report that she was actually hurt from it?
We have to ask ourselves now, are we bitching about someone not being eloquent with how their moves look or are we talking about people getting injured? Huge difference. CM Punk for example. The guy is sloppy as shit in comparison to people like Jericho, HBK, Benoit, Angle, AND he has hurt people. Or then we have Seth Rollins, who's moves look beautiful and winds up hurting several people, like legit fucking them up.
I think if you broke it down, Nia Jax has probably hurt less people than anyone featured as often as she was. If the WWE were smart, they'd have Nia continue to bust up these wrestlers faces and hope it skyrockets their career like it did Becky. Imagine if Blue Meanie's career took off after JBL beat the fuck out of him?
Oh let's also not forget Charlotte yanking the cord causing the monitor to swing around and blast Kairi in the back of her fucking head at TLC. It was almost like Sane fucked Andrade and this was her punishment.
Obviously we have Charlotte vs Nia to look forward to. Money in the Bank, suckas
It's a botch, injury or not.
Don't know why you're choosing to die on this hill, but hey salutes to ya.
Of course an elbow isn't as dangerous as throwing someone, an elbow can cause lots of damage but its not going to paralyze you or anything. You know this though.
All the people commentating have bodies. They generally will know how they work. Its not really a wrestling issue as such.
If Alvarez doesn't convince you, maybe you'd like to hear Corney weigh in on it.
Are you even in the conversation? Serious question. The folks arguing against me have made it very clear that they think Kairi was injured by Nia's sloppiness. I'm pointing out that we have literally heard ZERO that she was hurt.
Again, if you're in the conversation at least know what it's about. I've made it perfectly clear what hill I'm dying on smart guy.
An elbow strike can absolutely paralyze you. It can absolutely kill you. I can tell you right now the way Charlotte threw that elbow could have killed homegirl. Jax throwing Sane on her ass isn't going to kill her. An elbow strike is just as if not more effective than throwing someone. Jon Jones, one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, could easily shatter my skull with just 1 maybe 2 elbow strikes. More people in combat sports have been knocked out by elbow strikes than getting slammed.
Not saying one bit that slamming someone isn't effective and won't fuck you up, kill you, put you in a wheelchair. But let's be realistic here.
Love Cornette. But A-the dude isn't a trained professional wrestler (then again he did bump and that's apparently the only requirement to be a fucking genius on the topic lol) and B-nothing about Sane actually getting hurt. It was sloppy sure, like 90% of women's matches in the WWE. You know, we knew immediately when she hurt Becky, when she hurt Vega, and again, people gloss over a more brutal botch from Charlotte based on what? Looks? Skin color? Technical ability? Because again, 4-5 months ago Charlotte was ultra fucking careless with Sane in a gimmick match that could no doubt kill someone if you're being careless.
But a sloppy move that didn't hurt anyone....I mean guys/gals, she was selling her back, because that's what she was supposed to do. I don't know, maybe some of you are so soaked in the AEW/ROH style of 7 second selling you didn't realize what it looked like.....
It looked bad.
I definitely wouldn't want to be thrown into a turnbuckle from that high with the back of my head/neck taking that.
ND, tripling down on your opinion is very respectable. No worries, but dang you're in a super minority here.
Hey, y'all! Not sure if anyone follows Ring the Belle on Youtube, but I happen to enjoy DS and Paloma review Raw/SD! From time to time DS also interviews different wrestlers and he is a 30 minute interview with Deonna Purrazzo after her release. I think she's a solid wrestler and I hope she finds success somewhere.
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyyB5XeHDf8
And that's fine. Doesn't mean I'm wrong in my opinion. I'm just reading a lot of people who either A-think wrestling is real and/or B-have no clue what they're talking about. When I hear someone brush off an elbow strike, considering the high volume of combat sports I've watched over the last 30 years and partaken in.....On top of the fact not a single word from anyone that Sane was even hurt....ND, tripling down on your opinion is very respectable. No worries, but dang you're in a super minority here.
Again, you tried to brush it off like the conversation was about being sloppy, it wasn't. It was about people wanting to pile on Nia Jax saying she HURT someone.
Though there isn't proof as such for Sane being hurt, at the same time it was careless and given her track record you can't blame people for jumping to that conclusion.
Is part of this because you're high on Nia Nash?
Piling on someone for the sake of piling on someone just isn't this forum's style anymore (for the most part). If Nia didn't already have a long track record of boffing opponents then personally, I'd say ehh mistakes happen. Everybody messes up, from Dana to Charlotte who carelessly destroyed Kairi because she didn't knew she was already loopy... but I do remember someone saying that track records weren't important. Who was it who said that? I wonder.
Nia has a great look for a monster heel. However, she is dog shit in the ring on certain things. She also has that Samoan family protective shield going for her. They will not fire her big ass, but I would depush her immediately and send her back to NXT
As far as the women's divisions go, NXT (at least wrestling wise) has the deepest pool of talent. I don't think Nia would really jive well back in NXT. She's fine on Raw, but I think she'd be a better face than heel.
Why didn't anyone jump on Charlotte for blasting homegirl on the same exact show? We all know why.
I'm not high on Nia Jax. If you scroll up just a couple posts I basically said I don't want people to think that I'm a fan of Nia Jax or that I don't think she's ever fucked people up. I'm not a fan, she has fucked people up. So what? It's pro wrestling. Not everyone is Bret Hart where he was so fucking perfect he supposedly never hurt anyone.
Stick behind the 1987 shoulder cam, comedy is not your thing.
- - - Updated - - -
Nia as a face was a failed experiment. She doesn't have the natural face vibe.
I think she would do well in NXT. There's a little more freedom in what you do in the ring and that can only be a positive.
Nia doesn't need to be on NXT. There's a balancing act that comes with someone who isn't in Charlotte's position (the top of the division) if they go from Raw/Smackdown to NXT. We see that with Bálor. Hell, it almost seemed like they were pretty comfortable with floating Bálor to NXT UK before the world turned. There's at least 10, maybe 12 women in NXT's division (not counting Charlotte) that are either legit players or need time to develop.
Bálor was a character that was stifled creatively on Raw/Smackdown, you could say the same for Charlotte. I don't think that's Nia's issue.
This is all correct, which is why I said Nia wouldn't do well going back to NXT. I do, however, think she could be an effective face, despite what Nash thinks. NIa is a large human, but I just don't buy her as a believable monster in the ring. Shayna, though I am not a fan of hers, is a total monster, as are Asuka, Rhea, and even Charlotte and Raquel (NXT).
I'm totally open to having my mind changed on that front for sure, but as it stands, I think NIa is miscast as a heel. I think if they gave her more than a month and a half of a "Alexa Bliss called me fat, so cheer me" storyline, she could be a unique and even likable face.
The reason Nia's botch is getting more attention is that not only does she not have the best track record, this one is a particular bad and dangerous one. It involves head and neck. Sting got injured from the same move but that was more bad luck as the execution was still on point. Its not as if you can say the same for this which was completely avoidable because Nia flat out flung her instead of executing the move properly and safely. Sane was lucky to seemingly not be hurt but that doesn't mean it wasn't a dangerous botch.
Also Sane just came back from a concussion, Nia's just back and already botching plus she blasted Ronda for being careless yet does this and uses it to troll instead of apologising. It's no wonder she's being blasted more than most who fuck up.
Last edited by Nosh Diesel; May 4th, 2020 at 5:17 AM.
I meant to add an acknowledgement of your stance so sorry if it came across like I was countering a point you didn't make, lol. I really don't buy her potential as a face though.
A) Raw/Smackdown might be trending in a better direction with this, but they generally struggle booking faces to look competent or they outright don't care to do so consistently.
B) If she's just a gatekeeper type heel that eventually bubbles up if the feud is right, she's probably in the pocket of best-case utilization.
C) Part of the reason she is disliked is the rep she's building as a questionable worker in terms of safeness. It can be up for debate if she's actually an unsafe worker but the court of public opinion is likely well against her, which could make it tough to get people to cheer her.
If she's truly beating ass then she's believable. I think her size makes her believable in that "monster" role because she's not some blob. She is actually an extremely beautiful woman who I would no doubt take over 95% of the roster in a heartbeat.
I will say this after thinking more about it when approaching your response, I can see Nia Jax as a quality "good guy". So I agree with that last part where they need to give her more than what we had. I would rather her be a badass face to allow some of her personality to bleed through, as opposed to the easy pop material (I'm not a skinny girl people made fun of me) stuff that she should no doubt implement but not have it be her entire story.
She was a former model for fuck's sake she knows what's up. I can tell you right now, in the right parts of the country she'd beat them all in a Jerry Lawler hosted bikin contest. ALL HUMANS can appreciate her.
It was a potentially dangerous botch. Some of you sound like over protective mothers. Charlotte's botch was much worse and you could legit tell that she hurt her opponents whereas Kairi did what? She sold the parts of her body the move was attempting to "hurt", right? End of story.
It’s because unlike Charlotte, Nia has a track record. And of course most people were concerned when it comes to bumps of that nature. Also Nia didn’t do herself any favours addressing it on Twitter, the heat would probably be less on her if she just owned up and said sorry.
And that's not true at all. What's the appropriate number? I can think of 4 times in the last year I've seen Charlotte fuck someone up. We're literally talking about 2 right now. Last week on Raw and then at TLC where she went as far as bitch slapping Sane after giving her a concussion and putting her out for how long? Last I checked Kairi wasn't on the injured reserve list.
Does Nia Jax have the same reputation as every other female wrestler as being sloppy at times? Of course she does. Asuka flat out KO'd a chick in NXT with a headkick. Who wants to make a group of say 10 of us and we take the last 20 matches of the 10 wrestlers and see who has the most botches? Then we'll have to send it to the former IWGP champion, the former Universal champion, 2 time King of the Ring, and even a WWE ECW champion, the WWE Hall of Famer Byron Alvarez for verification.
I don't see anyone but Shayna winning the MITB match. In fact, I'd love to see her take the other five competitors out on the first floor, then just casually take the elevator or stairs to the roof, and climb up and grab the briefcase. But I wouldn't have her cash in on Becky again. I'd have her cash it in on Charlotte. Shayna will be like "This is my house you fucking bitch!"
Charlotte, Zelina, Asuka, Becky, Sane those are just a few on the list that she’s either hurt or at least botched a spot.
Accidents happen yes but it’s more prevalent with Nia. It’s not just fans or pundits saying it though, her fellow co-workers are saying it too. If it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck etc.
Us Diesels won’t agree on this though so probably will just have to move on.
Oh, we good!
You're totally right, though. It would take some added effort these days to get her over as a face because the internet has pretty much deemed her to be a train wreck (and sometimes, I think she it). Though she isn't the most charismatic, Piper Nivin could teach Nia a thing or two about her a big woman and a lovable face.
And not to derail this excellent Nia debate but I think NXT UK (if they survive the pandemic) has some pretty fucking incredible women over there, and I think the mainstream audience is going to be blown away when they finally get to see what women like Piper, Jinny, and Aoife can do (assuming y'all already know how awesome Toni and KLR are?).
I actually think Lacey is best set up to win right now. Shayna isn't a bad choice but she doesn't need the briefcase.
The point about the UK crew is the most interesting in following back up with the point I made about NXT proper having an ample amount of talent and making it tougher for Nia. You can add 2-4 talents in the UK that make it that much tougher. Obviously the timeline for when those women can come to Florida is clearly unknown but it could be an option if NXT UK dissolves.Oh, we good!
You're totally right, though. It would take some added effort these days to get her over as a face because the internet has pretty much deemed her to be a train wreck (and sometimes, I think she it). Though she isn't the most charismatic, Piper Nivin could teach Nia a thing or two about her a big woman and a lovable face.
And not to derail this excellent Nia debate but I think NXT UK (if they survive the pandemic) has some pretty fucking incredible women over there, and I think the mainstream audience is going to be blown away when they finally get to see what women like Piper, Jinny, and Aoife can do (assuming y'all already know how awesome Toni and KLR are?).
What happened with Rhea Ripley? She drops the title to Charlotte after a brief 4 month reign, and then shortly after her return takes the pin in the 3-way. I'm not trying to say she's being buried or anything, but it's curious.
People have to lose.....And her losses have been fairly protected since losing the title. I'm absolutely shocked Io won.
I definitely don't consider 4 months BRIEF. For example, Kairi Sane only held the title for a little over 2 months. And I was shocked Charlotte beat Rhea as it felt like Rhea was going to get a Shayna run, some crazy 10-12 month run. Plus she's only like 22-23 years old she has plenty of time to be a top tier wrestler beyond NXT.
Plus she beat one of the most dominant champions WWE has had the last couple of years
Way I see it, it took Rhea taking a moonsault while in the Figure 8 for Io to pin her. I don't even see it as another loss for Rhea.
That finish made everyone come out with a story going forward. Charlotte didn't get pinned, Rhea was "tied down" with the figure 4, so now Io has 2 people she has to prove she can actually beat with no bullshit attached. BRILLIANT BOOKING.
Coming back from loss and having to pick yourself up and reclimb the mountain is a pretty standard and effective bit of character development. She's still only 23 or so. She's still a kid that's growing up.
People are definitely welcome to have their own interpretations of events, but I just don't understand how some people can think Rhea was being "buried" or that she has lost her momentum (seeing this more elsewhere, not really here btw).
As someone else pointed out, it took a Figure 8 and Io's moonsault (to the friggin face, mind you) to pin Rhea. It was smart booking. Plus, being the only NXT champion to defend at WM (in one of the best matches of this year's WM) and main eventing NXT Takeover... nothing about that screams being buried or losing momentum.
Honestly, I think it was excellent booking. Io's matches going forward will certainly help to elevate the status of the incredibly deep NXT roster. And Rhea is ready to move to Raw/SD! I think she is just magic in the ring, and she makes everyone's offense look like it has destroyed her. And at 23... Jesus, y'all, we haven't even seen her get close to peaking yet.
I think it’s a pretty formulaic redemption story that can be built off of. She was killing it in 2019, particularly the last quarter of the year. She was already facing some resentment from the audience so this string of setbacks is likely going to do her well in the long run. And as you said, she’s essentially a young pup in the business. She’s already shown she can handle the moment and ride it out for a while, so let’s add some substance to it all. She’ll be fine as long as she maintains her level of drive and gets lucky with health.
Anyone selling stock of Rhea and Toni Storm, I’ll gladly take them all.
Last edited by BGMaverick; June 9th, 2020 at 6:20 PM.
Rhea/Charlotte was borderline porn with Rhea's constant screaming. I think she has a good look, but she is sorta damaged goods ala Blazer who is almost MIA on Raw. Io is fine as champ, but HHH has a giant hard on for heel champs probably due to his runs as a face suck. I just don't expect her reign to last long.
Per HHH:
I'm going to hold him to it."That finish was done tonight, the way it was done was for a very specific reason, for storytelling purposes. Hopefully, if we get to tell the story the way we want to over the coming months, three or four months from now, you'll go, 'I know exactly why they did the finish they did.'"
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/20...or-now-671181/
I also want to share this awesome post from Bayley. She's on her way to becoming the GOAT.
Holy shit, I first read that as Charlotte Flair Reportedly Done At WWE For Now and nearly shit myself.
Think about this though....Asuka is the longest reigning champion in NXT history. 99% of it as a babyface. The longest reigning champion until Cole was Finn Balor, who was a babyface the entire reign.
Asuka was a Babyface in NXT, I'm not sure about that.
Yes....Asuka was a babyface in NXT damn near the entire time.
wat
There were times where she acted a bit heelish running in and attacking people or cheating a bit to retain against Ember Moon but yeah face for the majority.
The heelish tones didn't come until near the end of her reign, though.
I know.
Gives more respect to the likes of Ember as Asuka had to resort to shoving the ref into the ropes to put her off. Put over Ember stronger.
Speaking of Ember, hope it’s not the end for her but will take it if it is.
Asuka trying to get over with that crowd as a heel, damn near impossible. I'll be honest, has she ever been booed? I just don't think anyone has or ever will take Ember Moon that serious. Putting most against Asuka is tough because she looks cool, a top tier wrestler on the planet, hard to boo someone with everything going for her. And she doesn't even need to cut promos so peace out on that myth that promos are the most important thing even for a WWE audience.
Never been in love with Asuka more than they are doing now. Screaming wildly which is adorable but drops the act when she gets to the point.
I do not want her to lose the title any time soon and I hope she gets that clean victory over Charlotte defending her title much like Becky eventually beat Asuka.
Yeah it'd be nice if Asuka had a victory over Charlotte in general. Has she ever defeated Charlotte?
And let's talk about Charlotte. In-ring wise, great. But her storylines have always sucked. They couldn't even do the Rhea feud right with the young lion coming after the old vet. It's like Ric Flair booking.
Asuka has never beaten her. It’ll be great if/when she does.
They’re protecting Charlotte but also their booking of Rhea has been strange. Overcame massive odds at TakeOver and ended Shayna’s reign. Looked like they were strapping a rocket to her back but what has happened since? She lost at Mania and greeted backstage saying she didn’t know how good Charlotte was, Rhea should not be doing that. Io came to her aid but she heelishly attacked Io and she was the one to lose to Io.
Happy for Io don’t get me wrong and I’m sure Rhea will recover but the booking of Rhea has taken a bit of a strange turn as of late.
Asuka's fine and dandy, but I'd love to see a new champ crowned this year on either brand. The same women have dominated for far too long.
In spirit I do agree, but on the main roster there is some work to do to build up credible challengers.
Liv I just can’t buy at this point, her serious promos just sound so forced. I was almost on the Donald Dana Brooke bandwagon but what did they do at MITB? Steph: “Oh Dana that’s not the real briefcase lol” when it was plainly clear it was on the roof. She had a good thing going but they defaulted her to make her look like a clown again. Hated that part.
Sasha will likely turn on Bayley but at the same time although good not really fresh.
I have hope for Cross though. If Alexa turns on her and Cross gets back to the Cross of old (though I have enjoyed her playful side) she could be big.
Shout out to Sonya too. She has been killing it with the promos lately.
I assume that Charlotte pointing out to Asuka that she's never beaten her is leading to Asuka doing just that. that shit never gets brought up unless it's going to happen.
Hoping Asuka has a good long reign to really get the spotlight she deserves. She's accomplished a lot on the main roster but never got that long-term bright spotlight like NXT where she can really shine in all her glory.
I actually liked the ditzy Dana stuff at MITB because they finally gave her some character. She's bland AF otherwise so why not do something like that, make us laugh and give a damn about her for once. Hell, have her fumble and fluke her way into some significant wins and get her a title opportunity where it's revealed she was faking the airhead stuff to fool her opponents into taking her lightly.
Liv seems like a potential star but still has a ways to go. Ruby's probably the most underrated woman on the main roster. The fuck up of the Riott Squad break-up still pisses me off 'cuz instead of a good explosion it was a wet fart and only Liv came out of it better off and not really because of the angle but because they actually seem somewhat invested in her. She and Ruby could have both come out of it in better positions but instead, Ruby came back with a decent bang only to fade back into the background.
Interesting take on the Dana stuff and it would be great if they did that. Cynical self says it’ll be brushed off comic relief like Natalya farting. Love to be wrong on that.
Looking at the people ahead of her on all rosters though, it’ll be difficult. She’s got a big glass ceiling to break and if she has enough to do so, time will tell.
Agreed that Asuka has been killing it lately, and I hope they are leading to her finally beating Charlotte. Asuka and Bayley have been the shining stars of the women's division, and Charlotte is the only one on the roster clearly in the same league as them. I think Sasha has been wasted, as has Alexa Bliss, because they are both more talented than the writing/booking is letting them show. While I like that they are finally giving Nikki Cross some character development, in letting her explain why she trusted and become friends with Alexa, they took far too long, and seem to want to emphasize that more than anything else, she's too gung-ho, too over excited, and she acts like she's one of the paid crowd performers.
Nia Jax, on the other hand, is the one I can't figure out. I know they are building her as a monster for this Sunday's PPV in the title shot against Asuka, but I wonder what they have for her next?
That's the fuckin truth. Ruby is a brilliant worker, has a cool look, and is actually really good on the mic. I still think she and Liv should reconcile their differences and become a team again, because as much as Liv has improved (and she has a ton), there's no way I see her or Ruby beating Asuka.
Liv is definitely a work in progress. One thing she needs to do is rethink her exclamations when she's selling. For someone who is really good at taking moves, she needs to stop yipping like a puppy. I never noticed it until the empty arena shows when you could here a pin drop.Shout out to Sonya too. She has been killing it with the promos lately.
I agree that Sonya and Nikki are the ones with the best chance to be the next break out stars. Sonya's really close, but Nikki needs more time on the mic to get comfortable.
Ruby could totally be women's champ on either brand, but they've completely buried her. I just don't get it.
I think they need to stop sleeping on HEEL Naomi and bring her into the mix. They also need to turn Lacey Evans heel again or change her gimmick completely. At least her look, just looks like an idiot and how do you cheer someone who looks like a buffoon??
Not a fan of Nikki Cross. She was cool in Sanity, whatever she's been doing since the main roster....Meh.
Ruby Riott. Kind of wooden with the mic work, robotic in the ring but I hate to say it that's just how a lot of women wrestle in the US. They hesitate a lot, like OMG I might hurt you girl! You watch people like Shayna, Bayley, Charlotte, those are a couple American women who look believable. Becky's good, Ronda is good, not sleeping on them. I think Ruby has a dope ass look and if she was able to work more with the likes of Asuka, Shirai, Kairi Sane, and the women I just listed more often than she does, she could be a top tier player.
She's pretty young, not even 30, plenty of time to see her get a good push and make some noise. If there was ever a case for a Women's IC title, she'd be the case.
Quick assessment of the ladies mentioned:
Nikki - mixed bag in the sense she could easily bubble up or flame out. I think she's shown some good versatility since being on the main roster.
Naomi - ridiculously underrated. Wouldn't be surprised if she's just using this time to help her husband recover from his injury.
Ruby - strikes me as a Natalya-lite in the sense she's a good, dependable worker, but relatively wooden with given personality.
Liv - plenty of upside. They just have to decide on a personality with her and continue to let her evolve.
Sonya - top shelf potential. Underutilized prior to the split with Mandy but could be a top heel in the division.
Lacey - has really come into her own over the last 6-8 months. Part of me actually thinks her current role could click with a regular audience.
I don't think it has. It's only been fan-free for a little over 2 months and she was doing this babyface shit well before Covid-19 took out the audience. I think for me, I saw that she's much better with what she's trying to be when she's playing a heel. I would rather see a strong heel in Lacey Evans than a mediocre, confusing babyface approach.
It's sort of like with Naomi. They keep trying to make her this midcard babyface but when she was with Team B.A.D. she stood out more than Sasha, definitely more than Tamina.
And where's Bianca Belair??? She needs to be in the mix if she's not hurt. Charisma, ability, look, young, intelligent. You can tell she gets it. She doesn't just do shit for a pop, she's out there putting in work and again, if she's not hurt what the fuck? Get her out there and working with Asuka for the title. We don't need Charlotte in the fucking title picture every day. Maybe they'll realize like with Seth that she doesn't have to be in the title picture.
If rumors are to be believed, with Becky gone, Charlotte is going to be pushed as the top woman across all brands, so we're going to have to get used to seeing her in the title picture.
It’s brilliant how they’re giving new blood a chance!
Where's Bianca?
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Yes
That's too bad. She's someone else who is a great worker but kind of wooden on the mic. She comes across as someone who studies Stephanie McMahon's promos, which have no soul.
Charlotte delivers in the ring, but she's been heavily featured for wayyyyy too long. They couldn't even keep her strictly on NXT, she was on all 3 shows. What fans are out there clamoring for Charlotte Flair on the 3 shows? Zero. She'll cut a boring Triple H promo, then beat everyone. My memory is shit but when was the last time someone cleanly pinned or submitted Charlotte? I mean legit, not some bullshit small package out of nowhere, I mean they stuck her with the finish and she took the L. Just a straight up loss, no fluff, no MITB cash in 2 seconds after winning the title type shit.
Someone point to a match, because the female Triple H to my knowledge hasn't taken a clean L in years.
Bianca is MIA. So this kind of screams that she was called up without a plan, like Crews was on the first move for him from NXT. Or she's staying completely out of the picture while the tag teams are doing their thing and they're trying to protect her (like Shayna) while neither are involved in a major story.
Probably both. No plan, then you realize oh fuck, Covid-19 is more serious than we were lead to believe. They're probably only having people show up if they really need to and that's why we're not seeing much of Shayna or Belair.
The immediate rebuttal questions -- Ric Flair, with his age and medical history, was more of a need to be present? Charlotte, who was there for a pretty incoherent segment and a Network show, needed to be there? Seems like their recognition and decision-making process is pretty...rough.
What I mean is if they're needed for a storyline or they're already in a storyline, that makes sense. So yes, Ric and Charlotte actually had a purpose. Bianca and Shayna....What would be the purpose? They're not in the tag mix, they're not in the Women's title mix. Easier to just leave them at home instead of chillin in the back lol
Me personally, if I'm the WWE, I would have gone with Asuka v. Shayna. It's a fresh match up that would be hard hitting. Raw is too heel heavy for the women. They could have easily brought in Bianca to work with Charlotte. Makes perfect sense when you think about how they're presented as these elite athletes, not just elite wrestlers but athletes. I also think Charlotte should still be in NXT working with Rhea and Io.
Oct. 2019 is the most recent one I can remember. Bayley pins her with an inside cradle as Charlotte goes for the figure four. I know it's not a pin after a finisher, but this is as close as it gets. This was also the start of Bayley's epic title reign.
They're smart. They know how to protect those they want to protect. I don't think anyone has ever defeated her since she came up to the main roster with a clear decisive victory. Even this finish, it's one that people will go " Oh Charlotte was this close to winning and Bayley pulled one out of her ass!" It keeps Bayley looking good and Charlotte "gets caught".
Asuka just plain whooping her ass at Summerslam decisively, no cheesy roll-up of death would be delightful.
Then Shayna can beat her.
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