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Thread: WWE Womens Wrestling Discussion

  1. #13001
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    It makes some logical sense with her and Bayley being good friends out of the ring and her being frustrated with Bayley over how she's been acting, but I'm not sure many casual fans would've been aware of their friendship. Plus since Becky is also coming to Charlotte's aid then that's a tough act to match. I doubt Truth would have made much of a difference because it wouldn't have been his comedy 24/7 shtick.
    Last edited by Badger; September 25th, 2019 at 5:07 PM.

  2. #13002
    Be A Bayley Booster Spudz Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Carmella is the shits. She bumps like a sack of wet hammers. And she doesn’t look like she could crack an egg with a jackhammer.

    Candice is fantastic and she has experience wrestling women and men. She’s the best female wrestler in the company. If you cut her legs off, gave her a lobotomy, and tied both hands behind her back, she’d still be better than Carmella, on Carmella’s best day.

    Candice > “Real Housewives Of New Jersey” Guido Bitch Barbie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie View Post
    Carmella is the shits. She bumps like a sack of wet hammers. And she doesn’t look like she could crack an egg with a jackhammer.

    Candice is fantastic and she has experience wrestling women and men. She’s the best female wrestler in the company. If you cut her legs off, gave her a lobotomy, and tied both hands behind her back, she’d still be better than Carmella, on Carmella’s best day.

    Candice > “Real Housewives Of New Jersey” Guido Bitch Barbie.
    I love your passion for disliking Carmella

    I would only add that I think Io is the best women's wrestler in the company, but that I think super highly of Candice still.

  4. #13004
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    It makes some logical sense with her and Bayley being good friends out of the ring and her being frustrated with Bayley over how she's been acting, but I'm not sure many casual fans would've been aware of their friendship. Plus since Becky is also coming to Charlotte's aid then that's a tough act to match. I doubt Truth would have made much of a difference because it wouldn't have been his comedy 24/7 shtick.
    I wouldn't consider myself a casual fan so I have absolutely no idea what their relationship is like outside of the realm of pro wrestling. Did they speak on this on tv like "Carmella came to Charlotte's aid because....."?

    I'm just saying, Carmella comes out to the sounds of silence, if Truth was with her at least the crowd would have been amped up and it would've maybe made it seem like they were cheering for Carmella.

  5. #13005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I wouldn't consider myself a casual fan so I have absolutely no idea what their relationship is like outside of the realm of pro wrestling. Did they speak on this on tv like "Carmella came to Charlotte's aid because....."?

    I'm just saying, Carmella comes out to the sounds of silence, if Truth was with her at least the crowd would have been amped up and it would've maybe made it seem like they were cheering for Carmella.
    The friendship has been documented since their time in NXT and online, but not something that's been brought unto main roster storylines til recently.

    Even if Truth did come out with her, an initial pop maybe but then what? Not as if he could do much because he wouldn't have done anything. It was one of those things that had nothing to do with him and where Carmella and Bayley had history way before she and Truth teamed up.

    I don't think it's a black mark on Carmella as such, just that they've not addressed the Carmella/Bayley relationship on TV til then plus Becky was already involved with Sasha/Bayley and no doubt would've gotten a bigger pop other than Carmella because well she's a bigger deal.

  6. #13006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    The friendship has been documented since their time in NXT and online, but not something that's been brought unto main roster storylines til recently.

    Even if Truth did come out with her, an initial pop maybe but then what? Not as if he could do much because he wouldn't have done anything. It was one of those things that had nothing to do with him and where Carmella and Bayley had history way before she and Truth teamed up.

    I don't think it's a black mark on Carmella as such, just that they've not addressed the Carmella/Bayley relationship on TV til then plus Becky was already involved with Sasha/Bayley and no doubt would've gotten a bigger pop other than Carmella because well she's a bigger deal.
    So basically nobody knows why Carmella came out to save Bayley we're just making assumptions based on them being "friends" on social media and possibly NXT?

    Forget what I said about R-Truth you're reading wayyyyyyyyyyy too deep into what I'm saying. It was a joke, Carmella always accompanies Truth, maybe if he started coming out with her for her shit people would be like "Oh hey there's Truth what's he doing yayyyy" and by the time they realized what was going on Vince could pipe in that pop for Truth on a loop lol.

    So again....Did they address the reason WHY Carmella came out beyond her being a babyface trying to help out?

  7. #13007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    So basically nobody knows why Carmella came out to save Bayley we're just making assumptions based on them being "friends" on social media and possibly NXT?

    Forget what I said about R-Truth you're reading wayyyyyyyyyyy too deep into what I'm saying. It was a joke, Carmella always accompanies Truth, maybe if he started coming out with her for her shit people would be like "Oh hey there's Truth what's he doing yayyyy" and by the time they realized what was going on Vince could pipe in that pop for Truth on a loop lol.

    So again....Did they address the reason WHY Carmella came out beyond her being a babyface trying to help out?
    She mentioned it in a segment on Tuesday.

  8. #13008
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    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    She mentioned it in a segment on Tuesday.
    Yeah they've now addressed it.

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    Also, I believe Psycho noted that commentary brought it up from Carmella’s perspective last week, dating back to NXT. That would be fine, since all three of them have previous ties to NXT.

  10. #13010
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    She still sucks. Let's be honest....We all know why she's where she is. *Cue MOP sample*

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffyRocks View Post
    Wait, I'm confused. Do people here really think that Candice LeRae and even Sonya suck? I understand not getting behind Dana, and I guess if you didn't follow Sarah Logan on the indies, I get that, too. It's not like she's had a great MR run so far. But even when I was lukewarm on Candice, I knew she was immensely talented.

    Also, Nash: Izzy is training to be a wrestler so she literally could do what Carmella has done so far
    Sonya's great. She's improved leaps and bounds and is smooth as hell in the ring. Some other women could look to her as an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Carmella has had the benefit of working alongside people who could work with any other female and make it happen. When she was with Enzo and Cass, Ellsworth, now R-Truth, those 3 acts were/are great and you could have literally pulled off everything we've seen because it's 90% the guy she's with. Carmella on her own....Like recently when she came out for some odd reason to save Charlotte Flair, zero crowd response. Had she ran out with R-Truth, the place would have been going crazy. Everyone loves Truth.

    It's easy to hide massive flaws in your game when your partner(s) are bringing everything else to the table. You put James Ellsworth with any female on the roster and that shit would have worked because Ellsworth was such a great character. I miss that guy.
    And it's highly likely Carmella is a future Hall of Famer. Crazy.

  12. #13012
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    Mella is money lolz!

    I'm at peace with the fact she's not that good a worker though and she's more entertaining when she has a strong valet. Beating Charlotte and then beating Asuka multiple times even if the wins were cheap was too far but gotten past that. She plays a good role even if not good solo.

    Speaking of Asuka....definitely the best and most over star they've fucked up 7n recent memory. Even if Kanuki Warriors was her idea, she's way too good for that. She should be up at the top with Sasha, Bayley, Charlotte and Becky. I've said this before but as much as they tried to push the Women's Revolution, it's always been the same ones at the top.

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    I think Carmella's great in the spot she's in right now. Keep her way from the women's titles, and give her a tag team run down the line, and I'm good with whatever she does.

    I've really tuned out this new Horsewomen feud. Been there, done that. At least with the draft, they'll have to separate them, but it's still probably going to be Becky/Sasha and Charlotte/Bayley until 'Mania. Then we'll get a RAW, Smackdown, and Tag title "WINNER TAKES ALL" match, lol.

  14. #13014
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    Sorry to repeat the same point ad nauseum, but as much as they tried to make this an "#OMGwomen", same problem with the men's division has come up for years. They're stuck in the safe zone and hold ceetainwomen to a pedestal. Alexa would also be in that group if it weren't for her injury issues.

    They have the most talented women at their disposal for years, but again they play it safe. Asuka especially is the worst affected. She is the most talented woman they have on the roster period but because her English isn't great, she's been relegated despite being naturally over in spite of the language barrier.

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    Nikki > Alexa. I get what you are saying though. I love the Four Horsewomen, but they have to elevate Ember, Mandy and others. The women's tag division should help those people, but it's treated like a joke thanks to Iconics and poor booking. Honestly, the WWE had just acquired talent and has zero idea with 60% of it. It's done to stop AEW more than anything else.

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    Look at the women who chased after Carmella for the 24/7 title: Mandy, Sonya, Asuka, and Kairi. They should be considered top talent in the division, but considering the men who've been chasing after that belt, it puts those women at the level of jobbers. I know their roster is smaller, but why wouldn't they use Liv Morgan, Dana Brooke, and the IIconics instead? They're all doing nothing and it would have been the perfect time to use them.

  17. #13017
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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    Nikki > Alexa. I get what you are saying though. I love the Four Horsewomen, but they have to elevate Ember, Mandy and others. The women's tag division should help those people, but it's treated like a joke thanks to Iconics and poor booking. Honestly, the WWE had just acquired talent and has zero idea with 60% of it. It's done to stop AEW more than anything else.
    What women have they signed in the last year to avoid them going to AEW? Everyone on the main roster right now has been in the WWE for 2-3 years at least, well before AEW was even a blip on anyone's radar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lotjx View Post
    Nikki > Alexa. I get what you are saying though. I love the Four Horsewomen, but they have to elevate Ember, Mandy and others. The women's tag division should help those people, but it's treated like a joke thanks to Iconics and poor booking. Honestly, the WWE had just acquired talent and has zero idea with 60% of it. It's done to stop AEW more than anything else.
    Which women, specifically, did WWE hire to keep from going to AEW?

  19. #13019
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHS View Post
    Which women, specifically, did WWE hire to keep from going to AEW?
    Likely coincidental in timing (beginning of 2019), but WWE didn't sign Jazzy (Alpha Female), Viper, Rachael Ellering, or Kay Lee Ray until after AEW was announced. Definitely probably Santana Garrett was officially snatched up in August to prevent her from signing with AEW, but also she's been an infrequently used talent in NXT (unsigned) for years, so it was just a matter of time in her case.

    Other than those women, I can't think of any that were specifically signed to spite AEW. And I honestly don't think any of those women sans maybe Santana were signed to keep from going to AEW. Any other new signees this year (like Catalina Garcia or Briana Brandy) are either new to the wrestling world or weren't established enough to be a blip on the radar.

  20. #13020
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffyRocks View Post
    Likely coincidental in timing (beginning of 2019), but WWE didn't sign Jazzy (Alpha Female), Viper, Rachael Ellering, or Kay Lee Ray until after AEW was announced. Definitely probably Santana Garrett was officially snatched up in August to prevent her from signing with AEW, but also she's been an infrequently used talent in NXT (unsigned) for years, so it was just a matter of time in her case.

    Other than those women, I can't think of any that were specifically signed to spite AEW. And I honestly don't think any of those women sans maybe Santana were signed to keep from going to AEW. Any other new signees this year (like Catalina Garcia or Briana Brandy) are either new to the wrestling world or weren't established enough to be a blip on the radar.
    Didn't all of those women compete in a Mae Young Classic?

    And are we seriously going to assume that every single person the WWE signs post-AEW are only getting signed because of AEW? 3 of those 4 names were signed because they had really nothing going on for the UK women's division.

    I just think it's an extremely ridiculous thing to say that the biggest wrestling company in the world only signs wrestlers if they think AEW wants them. Honestly shocked you of all people would even suggest something so absurd.

    I mean for fuck's sake, Paul Ellering was working for NXT so it's not exactly a shocker that his daughter, who has wrestled for the WWE several times over the last 3-4 years would be signed.

  21. #13021
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Didn't all of those women compete in a Mae Young Classic?

    And are we seriously going to assume that every single person the WWE signs post-AEW are only getting signed because of AEW? 3 of those 4 names were signed because they had really nothing going on for the UK women's division.

    I just think it's an extremely ridiculous thing to say that the biggest wrestling company in the world only signs wrestlers if they think AEW wants them. Honestly shocked you of all people would even suggest something so absurd.

    I mean for fuck's sake, Paul Ellering was working for NXT so it's not exactly a shocker that his daughter, who has wrestled for the WWE several times over the last 3-4 years would be signed.
    Eh, I think you might have misinterpreted what I wrote, but I'll take the blame for that since they are my words after all. Serves me right for speculating after drinking.

    I stated that it was very likely coincidental that the UK women were signed after AEW was announced, and as you beautifully pointed out, WWE was trying to bolster the UK brand anyway. And same with Rachael, as you pointed out, her father works for WWE (also, she's pretty good). And like I pointed out, Santana has been wrestling for NXT as a "jobber" for years now. And I do think each of those women competed in one of the MYCs.

    Lotjx brought up a discussion point (which is sadly a talking point being discussed often over at Diva-Dirt) so I thought I'd take a gamble and see if I could see it like Lotjx. You know my posting pretty well by this point, so my statement that read: "Other than those women, I can't think of any that were specifically signed to spite AEW. And I honestly don't think any of those women sans maybe Santana were signed to keep from going to AEW" should have made it fairly clear that I didn't buy into the argument for any of the women except for maybe Santana, but I certainly had no problem entertaining the idea and trying to understand why someone would think that.

    To keep the discussion going for the sake of it, no, it wouldn't blow my panties off to discover Vince wanted to sign people to keep them from going to his competitor. That practice happens all the time in the entertainment industry; trust me if you will on this one, I'm a career musician, I've literally been signed to a company that ended up using me quite sparingly just so I wasn't snatched up by another company. Pretty shitty, but I was young, too. But, as you and I have together pointed out, some baseline research pretty clearly shows that argument doesn't hold up regarding the women's division in the WWE.

    At this point, AEW's women's division just seems so different than WWE's... every women just seems to be in the right company (whether that is AEW or WWE) for the time being.

    We cool, brother? <3

  22. #13022
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    It never occurred to me that Becky would lose on Sunday. She's still getting a major push and even got put over by the Rock, so her victory seemed like a foregone conclusion. However, allot of people commented how Sasha should have won and that it was the best time for Becky to lose the belt. I have to agree. Unless they call up someone from NXT, Becky doesn't have any credible challengers. What does Sasha even do now? Go back to tag division?

    What I didn't expect on Sunday was both Sasha and Bayley losing. Someone in the HIAC thread commented on how they never fully capitalized on the Bayley heel turn. How she could have given motivational speeches to kids, but not follow her own advice. There was definitely potential in making her a hypocritical heel, but the opportunity has come and gone.

  23. #13023
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    It never occurred to me that Becky would lose on Sunday. She's still getting a major push and even got put over by the Rock, so her victory seemed like a foregone conclusion. However, allot of people commented how Sasha should have won and that it was the best time for Becky to lose the belt. I have to agree. Unless they call up someone from NXT, Becky doesn't have any credible challengers. What does Sasha even do now? Go back to tag division?

    What I didn't expect on Sunday was both Sasha and Bayley losing. Someone in the HIAC thread commented on how they never fully capitalized on the Bayley heel turn. How she could have given motivational speeches to kids, but not follow her own advice. There was definitely potential in making her a hypocritical heel, but the opportunity has come and gone.
    I guess there's a good chance that turning Bayley heel was really an advance move in reforming the Boss and Hug connection as a tag team and giving them another run with the belts.

    I suppose all will be made clear after the draft.

  24. #13024
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    I could see Becky losing to either Shayna or perhaps Ronda if Fox doesn't want her for SD

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    There's no rush imo for Becky to lose the title. Let's get Bayley drafted on the same show as Becky and she just snaps on Becky hardcore, even worse than before.

    I know right now it's smelling like we're going to see a long, long build to Survivor Series with champ v. champ, Flair v. Lynch. But that's almost 2 months away. And it's been done to fucking death lol. So in the meantime, have Becky mix it up with Bayley. WWE can do the champ v. champ match @ Survivor Series, put Boss and Hug on a SS team, then wrap up Bayley v. Lynch at TLC.

    You could have Bayley cost Becky the match against Charlotte at Survivor Series. Do a chair match between the 2 at TLC, then after the match out comes Ronda to build toward their Mania match.

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    I thought Ronda is trying to get pregnant. I don't see her coming back for mania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I thought Ronda is trying to get pregnant. I don't see her coming back for mania.
    She's been gone 6 months, and I don't know if there was any real concrete truth to that rumor. I mean, if she's under a 3 year deal, is there a clause that says they'll freeze her contract or pay her to attempt to get knocked up?

  28. #13028
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    Call me crazy, but I see Becky losing the Women's title to a debuting Toni Storm, on the RAW after Wrestlemania.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudz Mackenzie
    Call me crazy, but I see Becky losing the Women's title to a debuting Toni Storm, on the RAW after Wrestlemania.
    Would be a helluva way to debut.

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    I just remembered someone.



    Yeah, she has a good chance of dethroning Becky when she comes back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    I just remembered someone.



    Yeah, she has a good chance of dethroning Becky when she comes back.
    She's beautiful. I definitely think her and Becky will have a legit feud. Her dethroning The Man would honestly be the best option. You can't deny the excitement fans have when it comes to the underdog going after the monster.

  32. #13032
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    That could also be good. Just something to light a fire under Becky's ass for a few months to get us to mania.

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    Becky has a bee in her bunnet that she can’t beat Asuka so much that she grants Asuka a title match.

    One more mist spit later then Asuka two belts!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Becky has a bee in her bunnet that she can’t beat Asuka so much that she grants Asuka a title match.

    One more mist spit later then Asuka two belts!
    Asuka Two Belts 4 Life

  35. #13035
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    Seriously, I really don’t want Nia on top again. She has obvious presence but she’s really not that good in the ring or on the mic and I think Becky would struggle to work with her for a good match even if they have history. She botched that punch after all. Nia/Bliss had a good backstory but the matches were disappointing.

    Nia has the look to be a threat, but carrying either brand as champion no. May sound harsh, but not really missed her in her absence.

  36. #13036
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    I think Nia comes back as a babyface to back up Becky. At least for a bit.

    They can say “Becky earned her respect” from taking that wicked potato and surviving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Seriously, I really don’t want Nia on top again. She has obvious presence but she’s really not that good in the ring or on the mic and I think Becky would struggle to work with her for a good match even if they have history. She botched that punch after all. Nia/Bliss had a good backstory but the matches were disappointing.

    Nia has the look to be a threat, but carrying either brand as champion no. May sound harsh, but not really missed her in her absence.

    Nia and Alexa had a good backstory but if you're going to knock Nia's workrate, then we can't forgive Bliss for being one of the worst in the ring on the main roster. She's very sloppy. Nia's had some really good matches against Asuka, Bayley, and Ronda Rousey. I actually thought Ronda v. Nia was one of the best women's matches in WWE last year.

    And Becky's not exactly Charlotte or Asuka. Very few women are. The bar isn't that high and the type of match Nia and Becky would have would work just fine. I'm sure they've wrestled several times in the past as well, but the story is there. With Becky, she's not over because she's a great wrestler, her workrate is alright but she's not a top 10 wrestler. She's over because of her character and I really think Nia coming in and wrecking shop would be a great way to change up what's going on with Becky so far.

  38. #13038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Nia and Alexa had a good backstory but if you're going to knock Nia's workrate, then we can't forgive Bliss for being one of the worst in the ring on the main roster. She's very sloppy. Nia's had some really good matches against Asuka, Bayley, and Ronda Rousey. I actually thought Ronda v. Nia was one of the best women's matches in WWE last year.

    And Becky's not exactly Charlotte or Asuka. Very few women are. The bar isn't that high and the type of match Nia and Becky would have would work just fine. I'm sure they've wrestled several times in the past as well, but the story is there. With Becky, she's not over because she's a great wrestler, her workrate is alright but she's not a top 10 wrestler. She's over because of her character and I really think Nia coming in and wrecking shop would be a great way to change up what's going on with Becky so far.
    There’s a reason she’s not been pushed further than she has. For the few good matches she had, there are just as many of not more black marks. She has a history of being reckless and injuring other people. Becky’s not the best thing technician, but her connection with the audience is undeniable. That’s why she’s top.

    The novelty of Nia coming back might be fun but I doubt she’d progress unless her ringwork increases dramatically and consistently. Across all the rosters including NXT and NXT UK, there’s a whole bunch of wrestlers who could realistically challenge Becky (eg Bayzler, Ripley) but they insist on keeping the same people on the top.

    Not limited to the women’s division. WWE as a whole can’t seem to get out of playing safe and they lack balls.

  39. #13039
    hotthickbutteredtoast mth's Avatar
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    Can't wait for Nia to come back and will mark out hard when it happens. Love her. Never really got a proper blow-off between her and Becky and it could be pretty dope if things came around and we got them one-on-one.

  40. #13040
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    Nia Jax sucks, hope she never comes back.

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    I am so torn on Nia. I actually kind of miss her, but she's not fantastic at much. Nash nailed it with Bliss, too. If you come for Nia's in-ring work, Bliss is fair game.

    I think I have to respectfully disagree a tad about the Becky issue. At some point, I feel there must be a small, discernible distinction between being a good in-ring wrestler and being a crazy talented athlete (and yes, of course you can be both, like Io and Asuka). In terms of wrestling skill alone, I think Becky can out wrestle Charlotte (just like I think Bayley can out wrestle Sasha). Now before anyone rips me up, I love Charlotte (and Sasha) and she's a damn fine wrestler. And she's clearly one of the best athletes in the entire company. But judging on purely technical mat wrestling skills, Becky (in my humble opinion, which I realize is just an opinion) out wrestles Charlotte. Y'all nailed it when saying Becky appeals to the audience. I just happen to think she's also a damn fine wrestler.

    But honestly, at their level, it is kind of like deciding if you want to eat pizza or tacos. I love them both, as do most people, so who cares which one you choose to be your favorite as long as you're happy. (also I've been drinking again before jumping on the internet, so y'all welcome) <3

  42. #13042
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffyRocks View Post
    I am so torn on Nia. I actually kind of miss her, but she's not fantastic at much. Nash nailed it with Bliss, too. If you come for Nia's in-ring work, Bliss is fair game.
    It's true Bliss isn't tremendously better than Nia in the ring offensively. But her selling is much better.

    And her promo work is much better.

  43. #13043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    It's true Bliss isn't tremendously better than Nia in the ring offensively. But her selling is much better.

    And her promo work is much better.
    But Nia has a completely more powerful look than tiny Bliss. Nia simply looks like she should be able to wipe the floor with most of the roster - men or women alike. Nia shouldn't have to sell that much. I am hoping that in her time away, Nia has really worked on her promo skills, because I think they're more of a glaring weakness for her than her offense. When Nia comes back, they probably have her come after Becky, to be close to a loss, then they will have Tamina come back as well, for perhaps a distracted victory.

    And while we're at it, I disagree with @BuffyRocks in that I think Charlotte is a better wrestler, both in the ring and on the mic, than Becky. The only area Becky beats her is on Twitter.

  44. #13044
    hotthickbutteredtoast mth's Avatar
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    I've noticed Bliss busting out a couple new moves since she's been drifting towards being a face. She's done interviews in the past regarding her ringwork and how she can do more than she does but intentionally avoids flashy moves because she's a heel and doesn't want pops. I'll be curious to see how much her moveset changes and what else she might bust out now that she and Nikki seem locked into the face position.

  45. #13045
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    It's true Bliss isn't tremendously better than Nia in the ring offensively. But her selling is much better.

    And her promo work is much better.
    Oh, her promo work is leagues better than Nia.

    And @3puppies that's totally cool. Like I said before, they are both so great. And honestly I get why some people think Charlotte is the better wrestler. Even as a heel, she has a flashier move set than Becky, and if mat wrestling doesn't appeal to one, then yeah, Becky probably comes off as just a good wrestler and nothing more. I think Becky's promo skills are on the same level if not better than Bliss, though Charlotte has shown immense growth in promo skills since she first came to the main roster. Really, all three of those women can deliver on the mic.

    You know who else I think can really deliver a promo? Mickie James.

  46. #13046
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    Despite the fact that her ring-work has never been superb, Bliss is still very watchable. I am not suggesting she belongs in a 25 minute match, but there are very few women on the roster who would keep me interested in a match that goes more than 12 minutes or so. The latest thing that bugs me about the women is how awkward they can look when trying to get in position to take their opponent's upcoming move. For some of this, we can probably fault the director / camera work - they should be focussing on the person getting ready to perform an offensive move, especially a leap off the top turnbuckle, instead of showing the "victim" squirming to get just into the right position and then lay perfectly still and flat out. If you can move to get into that perfect position, you could move to roll out of the way.

    But I also wanted to mention that when it comes to selling, throughout an entire match, Bliss seems to understand the importance of facial expressions as well as anybody. So many of the women seem to forget this - they seem excited that their opponent hit a big move, instead of selling pain or frustration. And when Bliss is talking trash in the ring during her match, she gets into it.

    So if they keep Bliss/Nikki together as tag faces, I'm thinking they will use Bliss in the Enzo "face-in-peril" mode until Nikki gets the hot tag.

  47. #13047
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffyRocks View Post
    I am so torn on Nia. I actually kind of miss her, but she's not fantastic at much. Nash nailed it with Bliss, too. If you come for Nia's in-ring work, Bliss is fair game.

    I think I have to respectfully disagree a tad about the Becky issue. At some point, I feel there must be a small, discernible distinction between being a good in-ring wrestler and being a crazy talented athlete (and yes, of course you can be both, like Io and Asuka). In terms of wrestling skill alone, I think Becky can out wrestle Charlotte (just like I think Bayley can out wrestle Sasha). Now before anyone rips me up, I love Charlotte (and Sasha) and she's a damn fine wrestler. And she's clearly one of the best athletes in the entire company. But judging on purely technical mat wrestling skills, Becky (in my humble opinion, which I realize is just an opinion) out wrestles Charlotte. Y'all nailed it when saying Becky appeals to the audience. I just happen to think she's also a damn fine wrestler.

    But honestly, at their level, it is kind of like deciding if you want to eat pizza or tacos. I love them both, as do most people, so who cares which one you choose to be your favorite as long as you're happy. (also I've been drinking again before jumping on the internet, so y'all welcome) <3
    I was thinking about this yesterday, and for all the praise Becky's gotten as a technical wrestler, I think it's never suited her in the ring. It could simply be the fact that very few women on the main roster can wrestle a technical style, so whenever she tried going that route, it didn't come together. I feel like Becky's had her best matches after she turned heel and became more of a brawler.

  48. #13048
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    My top 10 on the main roster would be:

    Asuka
    Charlotte Flair
    Bayley
    Kairi Sane
    Becky Lynch
    Natalya
    Mickie James
    Nikki Cross
    Sasha Banks
    Nia Jax

    But character goes a long way. Sasha Banks is sloppy, but the total package is there. She can talk, she can sell, but to be honest, the only 2 people she can apparently have a somewhat high level fight against would be Charlotte and Bayley. The HIAC match with Becky was dope, the match with Ronda Rousey at Rumble was good too. But I just don't see enough consistency to put her in the top tier.

    Once Io Shirai comes up, that's my #1, even over Asuka.

  49. #13049
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    Mandy & Sonya > Nia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    Mandy & Sonya > Nia
    I haven't seen enough of them on their own having a match longer than 2 minutes to make that claim. Nia has a totally different style than pretty much everyone else, but that's also why I put her at #10 because she's not as versatile due to having a powerhouse driven style.

    If Mandy and Sonya can keep getting better and evolving, I see no reason why they wouldn't be top 10 in my eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    Mandy & Sonya > Nia
    I'd probably agree, at least for one of them. Sonya doesn't have much to display for a character so Nia has her throttled there but I'm generally impressed any time Sonya gets enough time in the ring. Mandy has the most potential of the three because she actually is showing competence and growth in the ring. Her running knee looks gnarly too. She can get a character over and she's got upside in the ring.

    Double ACL surgery on someone who carries a healthy amount of weight doesn't necessarily seem promising. It's not a death sentence but it's not ideal.

  52. #13052
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    I have Charlotte a good ways above everyone else. Then Becky and Asuka. I drop Asuka only because of her weak promo ability - the language barrier makes her emotions only come through as a mere change in volume.

    I don't see putting Bayley above Becky in any way. Becky is better in the ring and has a better character. Her ability to read, and react with the crowd is so much better than the entire roster, I'd say male or female, if we discounted Kevin Owens.

    While I agree with some of your points about Sasha being sloppy and her not having a good match with anyone outside the very top, I don't see why you'd put Kairi or Nattie that much ahead of her. And if you include Mickie James and Nia Jax, then why can't you include Ronda Rousey?

  53. #13053
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I have Charlotte a good ways above everyone else. Then Becky and Asuka. I drop Asuka only because of her weak promo ability - the language barrier makes her emotions only come through as a mere change in volume.

    I don't see putting Bayley above Becky in any way. Becky is better in the ring and has a better character. Her ability to read, and react with the crowd is so much better than the entire roster, I'd say male or female, if we discounted Kevin Owens.

    While I agree with some of your points about Sasha being sloppy and her not having a good match with anyone outside the very top, I don't see why you'd put Kairi or Nattie that much ahead of her. And if you include Mickie James and Nia Jax, then why can't you include Ronda Rousey?
    I kept Ronda out specifically because I have no idea if she's in fact ever coming back. I at least know we'll see Nia and Mickie James.

    For me, Asuka's "weak promo ability" i.e. subpar English, gets excused by her magnificent ring work. That's why I also put Charlotte as #2. Sasha and Becky are way better talkers than Charlotte, but they're not even close to being as good as she is in the ring.

    And I have to disagree about Becky being better in the ring than Bayley. Bayley is without a doubt one of the best female wrestlers on the roster, she might lack in the promo dept, which to be perfectly honest I wasn't even factoring in characters and mic work, it was purely from what they can offer in the ring. I mean, Becky's still in my top 5 because she CAN deliver, and I wouldn't be negative to bumping her up a little.

  54. #13054
    Once upon a time... kdestiny's Avatar
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    Bayley hasn't really had a good match since arriving on the main roster, at least not one that's been incredibly memorable. Maybe three Elimination Chamber tag.

    Her matches are fine, just not that great. I'd probably put her last as far as all Four Horsewomen go.

  55. #13055
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    Bayley hasn't really had a good match since arriving on the main roster, at least not one that's been incredibly memorable. Maybe three Elimination Chamber tag.

    Her matches are fine, just not that great. I'd probably put her last as far as all Four Horsewomen go.


    Nothing she has done on the roster has really come close to her Takeover work with Sasha.

    Bayley really shined as the face in peril there but ever since she's been called up, she hasn't been able to shine to the same degree though that is partly down to booking and her place in the pecking order. The heel turn was a nice change of pace, but again she's still not quite shining but losing twice to Charlotte in a row hasn't helped either. She's still lacking that fire and aggression that was so prevalent in NXT but hopefully she can step it up.

  56. #13056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I haven't seen enough of them on their own having a match longer than 2 minutes to make that claim. Nia has a totally different style than pretty much everyone else, but that's also why I put her at #10 because she's not as versatile due to having a powerhouse driven style.

    If Mandy and Sonya can keep getting better and evolving, I see no reason why they wouldn't be top 10 in my eyes.
    True that Mandy & Sonya don't get many singles matches, but if you watch Sonya, she's fire in the ring. More than just a good hot tag, she moves incredibly well and her strikes are pretty lethal. Mandy is good in her own right, but not quite as crisp. Obviously she has the character edge on Sonya and her looks will always get her attention.

    Btw, where's Peyton Royce on your list?

    Quote Originally Posted by BGMaverick View Post
    I'd probably agree, at least for one of them. Sonya doesn't have much to display for a character so Nia has her throttled there but I'm generally impressed any time Sonya gets enough time in the ring. Mandy has the most potential of the three because she actually is showing competence and growth in the ring. Her running knee looks gnarly too. She can get a character over and she's got upside in the ring.

    Double ACL surgery on someone who carries a healthy amount of weight doesn't necessarily seem promising. It's not a death sentence but it's not ideal.
    I'm interested to see how things pan out for Mandy and if she'll get a serious push down the line.

    Damn, I forgot how severe Nia's injury was. I think she's not due back until next year, but who knows if she'll make it in time for the Rumble.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    I have Charlotte a good ways above everyone else. Then Becky and Asuka. I drop Asuka only because of her weak promo ability - the language barrier makes her emotions only come through as a mere change in volume.

    I don't see putting Bayley above Becky in any way. Becky is better in the ring and has a better character. Her ability to read, and react with the crowd is so much better than the entire roster, I'd say male or female, if we discounted Kevin Owens.

    While I agree with some of your points about Sasha being sloppy and her not having a good match with anyone outside the very top, I don't see why you'd put Kairi or Nattie that much ahead of her. And if you include Mickie James and Nia Jax, then why can't you include Ronda Rousey?
    Here's the thing about Bayley. She's the Ironwoman of the division. In short matches, her talent isn't really noticeable, but the longer it goes, the better she gets. She has this ability to go to levels that most of the women can't. It's just so rare for her to get those long matches to show what she can really do. It's definitely a weakness that would be good for her to work on.

  57. #13057
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    Bayley hasn't really had a good match since arriving on the main roster, at least not one that's been incredibly memorable. Maybe three Elimination Chamber tag.

    Her matches are fine, just not that great. I'd probably put her last as far as all Four Horsewomen go.
    I would agree with most of this. I felt she had a much stronger showing in terms of match quality and who she was working with earlier in her main roster career.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post


    Nothing she has done on the roster has really come close to her Takeover work with Sasha.

    Bayley really shined as the face in peril there but ever since she's been called up, she hasn't been able to shine to the same degree though that is partly down to booking and her place in the pecking order. The heel turn was a nice change of pace, but again she's still not quite shining but losing twice to Charlotte in a row hasn't helped either. She's still lacking that fire and aggression that was so prevalent in NXT but hopefully she can step it up.
    Shit, nothing Becky Lynch has done on the main roster or in NXT could compare to Bayley and Sasha's Takeover matches. Bayley in NXT is truly a different animal, and maybe that's like what you're saying about the booking and her place in the pecking order. The Alexa Bliss feud really fucking sucked for her.

  58. #13058
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post

    Btw, where's Peyton Royce on your list?
    .
    Where's Peyton Royce in general? lol.

    She's not very good in the ring yet but yeah man if my list was based on personal favorites as opposed to who I felt were the top 10 in the ring, Peyton would be #2 under Asuka.

  59. #13059
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    The Alexa Bliss feud really fucking sucked for her.
    Especially that "This Is Your Life" segment.

    *shudders*

  60. #13060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Especially that "This Is Your Life" segment.

    *shudders*
    Bayley had the template already in place. She was basically John Cena in NXT. And even for a brief moment she was going strong with big wins within the first 4-5 months being on the roster. The Alexa feud was just a botch. Alexa's not good in the ring, she's all visual and verbal. She's someone who the WWE feels needs a title, but ultimately she doesn't. She just needs to talk, stay the fuck out of the ring. Imagine her as the spokesperson for a stable, or hell, that Moment of Bliss stuff was gold.

    It's just too bad they didn't, or haven't, realized that yet.

  61. #13061
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    I really want to know why Vince wasn't sold on Bayley. He pulled the rug out from under her in the worst possible way. I know he likes to change things last minute, but Bayley not wanting to use the kendo stick?

  62. #13062
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Bayley had the template already in place. She was basically John Cena in NXT. And even for a brief moment she was going strong with big wins within the first 4-5 months being on the roster. The Alexa feud was just a botch. Alexa's not good in the ring, she's all visual and verbal. She's someone who the WWE feels needs a title, but ultimately she doesn't. She just needs to talk, stay the fuck out of the ring. Imagine her as the spokesperson for a stable, or hell, that Moment of Bliss stuff was gold.

    It's just too bad they didn't, or haven't, realized that yet.
    There's still time though.

    To be honest, at first I wasn't sold on her teaming with Cross at first and thought she was gonna turn on her at any minute just to go back to square one. I've warmed to it a bit now though and Bliss has shown some improvement. As a face, she can be more flashy and creative with her offense rather than just generic heel hair-pulling and shit. There's something to be said if eventually Nikki goes pure psycho and turns heel on Bliss and violently beats her then Bliss fights back. She's certainly got the mic skills to be a defiant face.

  63. #13063
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    I really want to know why Vince wasn't sold on Bayley. He pulled the rug out from under her in the worst possible way. I know he likes to change things last minute, but Bayley not wanting to use the kendo stick?
    He went too far with Bayley being a white meat babyface. Like fuck man, even HBK was booked like a super vanilla babyface but when he had to step up his hardcore game against Diesel and Mankind, he delivered. And Bayley can do those kind of matches. But I think the idea was Bayley is such a good girl she couldn't stoop to Bliss' level.

    That's what Vince does though when the wrestler comes up and is in front of a bigger audience, wider demo, he waters them down more and more and more.

    Bayley was a good promo in NXT, but on the main roster it's like they coach her by saying "Sound like the kid in class who just wants to get their book report done and over with when reading it to the class". Where is the fire? She can turn it up in matches, but overall they need to let her be more confident.

  64. #13064
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    I really want to know why Vince wasn't sold on Bayley. He pulled the rug out from under her in the worst possible way. I know he likes to change things last minute, but Bayley not wanting to use the kendo stick?
    I can only speculate that she was too cutesy for Vince and not got the glamour model physique that he generally likes.

    Nash elaborated more there.

  65. #13065
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Becky Lynch blowing up is fucking beyond me to be honest. How Vince allowed that to happen when everything about her doesn't fit the apparent mold we see.....She has to have someone high up going to bat for her that Vince respects. It's a good example of what happens when you let the audience truly guide you.

  66. #13066
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    She does fit the physical mold a bit better than Bayley to be fair however I don't think that's the realreason.

    Fans love an underdog plus Charlotte being the one she turned on helped as she's constantly on top. Although Charlotte was supposed to be the face and Becky the heel, the fans wanted the other outcome and though they tried to play it off as heelish, the reaction was so loud because the fans like a rebel that they had no choice but to officially make her face. That combined with Becky's charisma blew her up.

  67. #13067
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    It's very 2019 or extremely modern in terms of what happened for Becky after the breaking point, at Summerslam in 2018. Up until that point, she was an endearing babyface who was seen as being shortchanged. She was booked in a way to change course after Summerslam because she was relatively damaged or reached her perceived ceiling. The crowd responded favorably to her having enough, her character changed and she was emboldened. Her witty online or off main TV persona was tweaked and cranked to 11 with bravado and that played extremely well.

  68. #13068
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    It was a modern take on a classic trope that's been around for years. Fans got behind Bryan because he was seen as being held down by the system. Fans got behind Punk for speaking out along with Cena being on top. Fans got behind Austin for similar reasons despite essentially being a dick.

  69. #13069
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Nia's big, but she has no strength or any momentum behind her movements. Her offense looks unconvincing like throwing a dead leaf at oncoming traffic, and her promos suck. I don't get why there's any anticipation for her return when before she was dropping Charlotte on her head or breaking Becky's nose or fucking Bayley's shoulder up or concussing Zelina.

  70. #13070
    Champion of the Sun
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    Nothing I can really add to the discussion that hasn't already been said, but just wanted to comment that I genuinely enjoy reading y'alls comments

  71. #13071
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    I am digging the new Bayley though. Best part of Smackdown by a mile.

    RIP Bayley Buddies!

  72. #13072
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    canada
    Feeling the new emo Bayley.

  73. #13073
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    Like her haircut as well.

    I’m hoping they progress this further by having her refuse hugs because the audience smells.

  74. #13074
    hotthickbutteredtoast mth's Avatar
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    Her new t-shirt slogan/catchphrase should be "Go hug yourself!"

  75. #13075
    Legend Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth View Post
    Her new t-shirt slogan/catchphrase should be "Go hug yourself!"
    YES!

  76. #13076
    Legend virmicious's Avatar
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    The haircut will grow on me. I'm also positive her look will be tweaked over the coming weeks. In a perfect world her little inflatable dude would pop up flipping the middle finger. Just imagine when she throws her hands in the air she flips the bird as they pop up flipping the bird. #gohugyourself

  77. #13077
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    We've been asking for Bayley to go hardcore for a while, and it's finally happened. Good riddance to the Bayley Buddies (About time one of the women cut their hair too). She also gave the best promo of her career

  78. #13078
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    LOVED Bayley's full heel turn. Never would I have dreamed that she would have stabbed her Bayley buddies, but damn, it was a pretty great turn.

    Question Do y'all think the Women's tag champs will still rotate between the rosters? Or will Kabuki Warriors, IIconics, and Fire/Desire all get drafted to Raw and have Raw be the home of the women's tag division?

  79. #13079
    Main Eventer Sasori's Avatar
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    If the tag belts are exclusive, what are the women on the other brand going to do? I think they'll still be cross brand.

  80. #13080
    IN A DITCH! Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    nicaragua
    LETS SMOKESHOW THIS BITCH!

  81. #13081
    Foot on a spiiiiiiiiike
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    Loving Bayleys turn and the new haircut. Will be interesting her and heel Sasha on the same show. Two woman power trip please.

  82. #13082
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    The hair is awful. It's like a 90s Rachel bob.

    But she seems to be committed and I totally support it.

  83. #13083
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    Didn't think I could like these three anymore Team Kick + Candice

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtqkUi8_xpE

  84. #13084
    Main Eventer lotjx's Avatar
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    You have to keep it for 30 days, lotjx. Stop trying to change it. You agreed to the terms when you joined the game.
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    They need to get some talent into Raw and SmackDown. Whether it be the UK girls or having more than one woman be dominate in NXT. They need tag teams and people to help build the midcard.

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