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Thread: The Ring of Honor Thread

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    The Ring of Honor Thread

    The old one got big. Not a massive strain on the server due to relatively low levels of activity, but it was still big and took a while to load. So, here's round 2.

    Previous thread for old posts:

    http://forums.rajah.com/showthread.php?t=76403

    Someone get the ball rolling, because I don't really have anything to say.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Anyone got the results from last night?

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    A B! For All Generations
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    Prince Nana came back!

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Lem ask and ye shall receive.

    1) Ruckus defeats Jason Blade.

    2) Sara Del Rey defeats Ariel.

    3) Rhett Titus defeats Grizzly Redwood with the Razors Edge. Titus was attacked by Haze afterwords.

    4) Brent Albright defeats Jay Briscoe. After the match Albright asks for a match wirh a SNS Inc. member. Sweeney sends him Dempsey. Albright chases Sweeney off.

    5) Necro Butcher defeats Mark Briscoe & Delirious with a Tiger Driver on Delirious.

    ~PRINCE NANA RETURNS! He says he has no more riches, no more crown, and just wants a job. Nana is dragged away by security.

    6) Jerry Lynn defeats Claudio Castagnoli with a cradle.

    ~Attendance is in the 400 range.

    7) FIP World Championship: Go Shiozaki defeats Austin Aries with a Go Flasher to retain the FIP Championship.

    8) Ironman Match: LAX defeat Kevin Steen & El Generico, Jimmy Jacobs & Tyler Black, and Chris Hero & Davey Richards.

    ~Tyler Black pins Homicide with a Phoenix Splash to go up 1-0 for AOTF.
    ~Davey Richards submits Kevin Steen with a half crab for to make it 1 AOFT, 1 SNS Inc.
    ~Homicide pins Hero with a lariat to make it 1-1-1 with Steenerico 0.
    ~Homicide pins Jacobs with a Cop Killah to make it 2-1-1-0 LAX and for the win.

  5. #5
    World Champion Brian M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeb View Post
    Prince Nana came back!
    This seems like the only thing that matters.

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    Results from tonight.

    ~Rhett Titus was out signing autographs. Daizee found him and chased him to the back.

    Preshow

    1) Ernie Osiris & Alex Payne defeat Ninja White & Ninja Yellow when Payne pinned White following a frankensteiner.

    2) Vin Gerard defeats Grizzly Redwood with a roll up and grabbing the suspenders.

    ~Estimated attendance is around 250 right now. Though if last night was any indication, don't start writing ROH's obituary just yet.

    Main Show

    ~Due to an ankle injury, Davey Richards is out tonight.

    ~Aries and Jacobs are fighting through the crowd.

    1) Jimmy Jacobs defeats Austin Aries with a chain and The End Time. Delirious and a new Age of the Fall member come to assist. That man is BRODIE LEE!

    2) Brodie Lee & Delirious defeat Cheech & Cloudy with a roll up.

    ~Rhett Titus is in the ring with a new woman (name not caught). Daizee gets in the ring and bitchslaps Rhett. Daizee wins a short match with this new girl.

    ~Prince Nana is in the ring! Security escorts Nana out once again.

    ~Chris Hero will now face Brent Albright later tonight.

    3) Kevin Steen & El Generico defeat The Osirian Portal with a Swanton/Splash combo. Steen picked both men up at once and sideslammed them both setting up the finish.

    4) FIP World Championship: Go Shiozaki vs. Necro Butcher ends in a double count out after both men brawled in to the crowd.

    ~Age of the Fall jump Necro after the match and totally annihilates him.

    5) Brent Albright defeats Chris Hero with a Crowbar in a "really boring match".

    ~After the match Albright is attacked by SNS Inc. Albright fights back and runs everyone off. He gets a mic and announces a STEEL CAGE WARFARE match for Final Battle in NYC.

    6) The Six Man Mayhem is up. Richards is wrestling in place of Hero ... despite it being announced earlier that he couldn't wrestle tonight because of an ankle injury. Odd.

    Davey Richards defeats Claudio Castagnoli, Rhett Titus, Jason Blade, Hallowicked, & Ruckus when he pinned Ruckus following a belly to back suplex. Claudio looked awesome in this match.

    7) Tyler Black defeats Jerry Lynn with a Phoenix Splash.

    ~After the match Tyler took the mic and said the change begins with him, and ends with the World Title.

    8) Jay & Mark Briscoe defeat LAX.

    But more importantly, a picture of Prince Nana from last night.


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    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Gabe's left, apparently. I don't actually think that's a bad thing at all, he's not the best booker ever or anything.

    Also the ROH message board is worth reading. Gabe's been like a father figure to me and such .


    "Thank you Gabe, your company restored my faith in wrestling as a sport. Without it, I might have given up on wrestling altogether."

    "I'm seriously just at a loss for words right now. I mean I came into this topic (before the name change) expecting to see someone thanking Gabe for a great night of wrestling tonight/this weekend. And then I click on it and the world changes."


    Last edited by Fanny Batter; October 26th, 2008 at 7:59 AM.

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    Gabe left the company?

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    From PWInsider

    Ring Of Honor owner Cary Silkin removed Gabe Sapolsky from the head booker's position with the company after last night's event in Edison, NJ. We were told that there wasn't any major blow up, but rather that the company is going in a different direction.

    Sapolsky, who has been with ROH since its inception, is now gone from the company completely.
    And the beautiful ROH boards

    This is the greatest loss that ROH has ever had. Joe, London and Punk don't compare to the exit of Gabe from the company. Something pretty bad must have happened with Carey as it sounds like a termination letter (effective immediately) and a replacement wasn't prepared.
    I would like to thank Gabe for restoring my faith in pro wrestling. I caught wind of what he was doing in 05 and have enjoyed the product ever since. I stopped watching wrestling after ECW collapsed, and ROH's style and storylines brought me back. I am not sure how the company moves on from here, but I hope they are able to find a good replacement for him. Whatever the circumstance is I hope it is a positive move for Gabe.
    Someone on there even asked if Final Battle would be the last show of ROH ever. Which it better not be since I spent $50 for a January show.

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    Gabe was slowly killing Ring of Honor with bad decisions and biased booking.

    He was great, once, and led Ring of Honor to national attention in a way that nobody but Paul Heyman can claim, but he was pretty clearly done, and it was time for him to move on.

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    So any news on who'll be the new head booker? Who else has been involved with booking ROH in recent times?

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    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Cue the Heyman speculation.

    This is interesting though. The termination notice doesn't sound too friendly, and it's rather out of the blue, so I wonder what happened to cause this, if anything specific.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Mike View Post
    Cue the Heyman speculation.
    I really can't see that happening. Heyman has even stated that he doesn't want to get back into wrestling at the moment.

    I'm really not all that shocked to be honest. In a way I'd say this is a wise business move. Just look at the attendances for the weekend, pretty dire compared to what they once pulled in Edison.

    ROH has been in need of something fresh for a while now, and this is make or break time, as the company could just die, or it'll hopefully re-build itself and go in a new direction.

    Can't deny that Gabe's booked some great stuff over the years though, and provided me with some amazing live moments, it's just ashame that the guy is so obviously out of fresh ideas with his current crop of guys.

    I suppose the ROH/FIP relationship will probably die here as well.

    I do wonder what Gabe will do now. I know a lot of TNA guys wanted him to come in at some point, and I think he'd be good for the company and create a better booking balance between the old and the young.

  14. #14
    Champ is Gone
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    So any news on who'll be the new head booker? Who else has been involved with booking ROH in recent times?
    Dave Meltzer specualted a great man in his update on this


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    Fuck it, give it to Raven

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrost View Post
    Dave Meltzer specualted a great man in his update on this

    Latest News from Dave Meltzer...



    Crazy, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    Latest News from Dave Meltzer...



    Crazy, right?


    I knew this was coming, but even I did not realize how quick you'd be about it.

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    Can I have my face back Cewsh, you reviewed it off

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defrost View Post


    I knew this was coming, but even I did not realize how quick you'd be about it.
    I'm like a lion stalking the word Meltzer across the forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mills View Post
    Can I have my face back Cewsh, you reviewed it off
    No. It has been forfeited to us as payment for my awesome services.

  20. #20
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Butch is the better booker anyway.

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    I thought Jamison was underrated in his duties.

  22. #22
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    The reason Meltzer said it is because Luke is tight with the owner and is booking down in PR.

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    Oh I know. He uses reasonable theories based on facts everyone knows and presents them as news.

    Still, he's as likely a booker option as any, and he'd be a fine transitional booker, but I don't think he's a long term answer.

    Then again, I can't think of anybody who would be.

  24. #24
    Who are you to doubt El Dandy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    Gabe was slowly killing Ring of Honor with bad decisions and biased booking.

    He was great, once, and led Ring of Honor to national attention in a way that nobody but Paul Heyman can claim, but he was pretty clearly done, and it was time for him to move on.
    as i haven't followed roh in probably 2 years, can you expand?

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    World Champion Brian M.'s Avatar
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    This is fantastic news. Perhaps now I can start watching ROH again. I was getting sick of the "Kenny King took Bryan Danielson to the limit, Danielson won with a roll up in 35 minutes, good action, ****!" type reviews. I don't want to watch that shit. I want to watch CZW fucking shit up, the CM Punk leaving storyline, Homicide chasing the title, Jacobs' obsession with Lacey, that kind of stuff. Gabe just hadn't been supplying that in recent months. Maybe the next guy will.

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Shit that's really true. Kenny King lasting with Danielson for more than five minutes is ridiculous. It was getting harder for me to care and if I wasn't going to shows (or if I didn't have a weird man crush on Nigel) I probably would have stopped like some of you.

  27. #27
    World Champion Brian M.'s Avatar
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    I really miss going to the shows, because I'm sure they're still great fun live, but I can't justify spending the money to watch a product I don't follow.

    Shit, I haven't even watched all of the DVDs I purchased at the last show I attended, which was in June of 2007. I didn't realize how long it's been since I stopped following the product.

  28. #28
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    You've missed a ton, but at the same time you've missed nothing. Tons of Vulture Squad vs. AOTF matches, or AOTF/Briscoes, or NRC/Resilience or Stevens/Strong or Aries/Strong or Briscoes/Steenerico and especially tons of Hero/Claudio. Each of those groupings had some real good matches, just annoying to see them all the time.

    Also, you should come to the next Manassas show. It's 1/16/09 right before the inauguration. If ROH isn't dead yet, I hope they name it Yes We Can.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAYD View Post
    as i haven't followed roh in probably 2 years, can you expand?
    Gabe fell in love with Japanese wrestlers after the Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi match became his biggest seller ever. As a result he essentially sold Ring of Honor to Pro Wrestling NOAH and became their feeder system, resulting in the Briscoe Brothers, Nigel McGuiness, Bryan Danielson, Austin Aries and others spending more and more time in Japan. As a result of that, and the loss of nearly all of their top talent to TNA when they made the, in hindsight, very poor decision to expand to pay per view, he had to start pushing entirely untested talent for the first time since the opening days of Ring of Honor.

    So with a constantly shrinking supply of main eventers and a general decline of talent across the independent scene, he turned to the people he knew that he could count on to be loyal to the promotion (Jimmy Jacobs, Delirious, etc.) and signed alot of talent (Ruckus, Necro Butcher, etc.) that didn't mesh with the style that the fans of the product had grown to appreciate and expect, and as a result the product, and the interest in it slowly began to dissolve to the point where they can't even garner enough interest to get more than a reply every few days on this forum, which was once almost exclusively populated with Ring of Honor fans.

    It was a terrible, slow, and painful downfall, and Gabe proved himself completely incapable of pulling them out of the spiral downwards that they were in. Money wasn't the issue, as they are still seemingly in decent shape, it was just as if his creativity didn't lend itself to jump starting the promotion a second time with subpar talent, and he clearly let his bias' and the things that made him feel safe and secure as a booker get the better of him and lead him to make poor choices. In short, he was burnt out and it was time for a change.

    He was quite good once, but he didn't have what it took to keep things going. That's basically it.

    Edit: And Kenny King is fantastic.
    Last edited by Cewsh; October 27th, 2008 at 1:39 AM.

  30. #30
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    Gabe fell in love with Japanese wrestlers after the Samoa Joe vs. Kenta Kobashi match became his biggest seller ever. As a result he essentially sold Ring of Honor to Pro Wrestling NOAH and became their feeder system, resulting in the Briscoe Brothers, Nigel McGuiness, Bryan Danielson, Austin Aries and others spending more and more time in Japan. As a result of that, and the loss of nearly all of their top talent to TNA when they made the, in hindsight, very poor decision to expand to pay per view, he had to start pushing entirely untested talent for the first time since the opening days of Ring of Honor.
    First off, there are two n's in McGuinness. Secondly, I think a few of the wrestlers have to work in Japan to be able to make decent money. Danielson isn't one of them, but Nigel has said without NOAH he'd be poor. They lost a ton of talent in a short amount of time (Joe, Homicide, Aries, Cabana, Daniels) partially because of PPV's which really fucked shit up.

    So with a constantly shrinking supply of main eventers and a general decline of talent across the independent scene, he turned to the people he knew that he could count on to be loyal to the promotion (Jimmy Jacobs, Delirious, etc.) and signed alot of talent (Ruckus, Necro Butcher, etc.) that didn't mesh with the style that the fans of the product had grown to appreciate and expect, and as a result the product, and the interest in it slowly began to dissolve to the point where they can't even garner enough interest to get more than a reply every few days on this forum, which was once almost exclusively populated with Ring of Honor fans.
    Ruckus was a bad signing, but Necro in ROH has honestly been a breath of fresh air. It's just that the big angle was supposed to be faction warfare with everyone in a faction but it just fell flat. Aries had to leave for two months at the beginning, Sydal left just as he joined a stable, and every stable coincidentally had three people. It helped make the tag scene a bit more interesting, but with the myriad of factions, there was no definition between them which is on Gabe (minus things like Jack breaking his face and people getting in an accident which made them cancel the Trios Tournament). And the big thing from faction warfare was supposed to be the Age of the Fall, but it was all downhill after

    It was a terrible, slow, and painful downfall, and Gabe proved himself completely incapable of pulling them out of the spiral downwards that they were in. Money wasn't the issue, as they are still seemingly in decent shape, it was just as if his creativity didn't lend itself to jump starting the promotion a second time with subpar talent, and he clearly let his bias' and the things that made him feel safe and secure as a booker get the better of him and lead him to make poor choices. In short, he was burnt out and it was time for a change.

    He was quite good once, but he didn't have what it took to keep things going. That's basically it.
    He never really shook it up. The Briscoes always won. They won the titles even though he knew Mark Briscoe needed surgery. And then instead of forfeiting the titles, Jay defends them with Aries and then forfeits them. Made no fucking sense. Fucking illogical. And he brought in Kota Ibushi for a four show tour. He's entertaining, but he's not a big name. I can understand bringing in a Kobashi or a Misawa but KOTA IBUSHI? I mean I've grown to appreciate puro but it didn't make sense and he hyped it as the be all end all.

    And this stupid Danielson/Nigel feud they've got going. Nigel says Dragon can't get a title shot until he beats everyone Nigel beat, but then Gabe has to go on the forums and say that it's a PPV exclusive storyline. If the ROH board doesn't understand it, you know it's stupid. But then Dragon gets a title shot anyways. But Dragon catches up for PPV anyways by beating Claudio and Go in a three way which raises the question, why didn't Dragon just have a three way against Go and Tyler after Nigel laid down the gauntlet? And why would Nigel acquiesce to Dragon without Dragon even coming out and saying he's beaten everyone. Fucking stupid.

    Edit: And Kenny King is fantastic.
    But not last-for-15-minutes-in-an-even-match-with-Dragon fantastic. But he is black so that helps.

    Oh that reminds me. FIP. What the hell. I don't give a shit about it but ROH stuff would go down there. I hated that.

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    Heh, I kept being ready to argue against your points before I realized halfway down that you pretty much agreed with everything I said.

    But yeah, basically Ring of Honor has had a ton of flaws and has been leaking talent for a long time.

    Okay, let's play fantasy dream time. Who would be the ideal booker for Ring of Honor?

    And before you say Paul Heyman, every single ECW mark here, note that the last time he ran a promotion of this size something happened to it. Hmm, what was it...

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    I'm tricky like that Cewsh.

    I think Cornette or Dusty would be good if you have some younger talent under them who get to learn and then take over after a year or two. If they go with a committee approach, I'd consider adding some random fan. I've seen people write up amazing booking ideas (shit at528 is fantastic at it) and while it would be incredibly unorthodox, it couldn't hurt.

    And I don't think Heyman would be any good either. For a short time it would be decent, but it would reek of desperation.

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    Plus Heyman would have to be an idiot to risk his legacy on a promotion as down as this one is right now.

  34. #34
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    Adam Pearce is the new booker ACCORDING TO MELTZER.

    Man, the ROH Message board is full of fucking idiots. Because Pearce works a slow, more methodical wrestling match (and isn't very good at it), that obviously means he'll book the whole show like that .

    What they need to do is get back to running 1 or 2 shows a month. Build to matches properly rather than rushing through them because you need some way to sell a Friday night show in CT. Moderate the high spots so they mean something. Sex up the production and get away from the reds and blacks, it's not a bloody roulette table. Have a bit of variation - bring in the Joey Mercury's the Sid's, the Dave Taylor's, the R&R Express, guys who aren't always young, athletic, tatooed and tanned. Less "shoot" angles. Shorter matches. Put some structure into the show - it's not accessible to watch wrestling in 3 hour sittings all the time, have some more promos and hype stuff. For example, Danielson vs. McGuinness is coming up - why not dedicate chunks of the shows before that to showing audience surveys on who will win, get thoughts from the roster, training videos, highlight montages, breakdown why Nige will win and why Dragon will win, sitdown interviews on why they NEED to win etc. Don't just wank on about their good matches because match quality is irrelevant to the story. Less blood. I could go on.

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    I don't have a problem with that, but they need to focus on the younger guys with maybe a random appearance by a big name. They are being smart and trying to revive the Chicago Area , which always seemed to be their hotbed, by bringing back Samoa Joe for 1 night only. Good moves so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Adam Pearce is the new booker ACCORDING TO MELTZER.

    Man, the ROH Message board is full of fucking idiots. Because Pearce works a slow, more methodical wrestling match (and isn't very good at it), that obviously means he'll book the whole show like that .

    What they need to do is get back to running 1 or 2 shows a month. Build to matches properly rather than rushing through them because you need some way to sell a Friday night show in CT. Moderate the high spots so they mean something. Sex up the production and get away from the reds and blacks, it's not a bloody roulette table. Have a bit of variation - bring in the Joey Mercury's the Sid's, the Dave Taylor's, the R&R Express, guys who aren't always young, athletic, tatooed and tanned. Less "shoot" angles. Shorter matches. Put some structure into the show - it's not accessible to watch wrestling in 3 hour sittings all the time, have some more promos and hype stuff. For example, Danielson vs. McGuinness is coming up - why not dedicate chunks of the shows before that to showing audience surveys on who will win, get thoughts from the roster, training videos, highlight montages, breakdown why Nige will win and why Dragon will win, sitdown interviews on why they NEED to win etc. Don't just wank on about their good matches because match quality is irrelevant to the story. Less blood. I could go on.
    I agree with every single word of this.

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    Amen.

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    ROH needs to sort out the music situation. Unlike WWE, they can use whatever music they want as entrance themes due to being under the radar, but the music is even more generic!

    A few guys have really good music that stands out, but so much is just "*heavy guitar* rarrarrararhrahrhasajakdla!!!". Or they have have too many intros and shit tacked on. Hero, for example. "somethingsomething knock out kid, CHRIS... HEEERO", followed by the beginning part of "I Need a Hero" or whatever song that is, followed by the LOTR song. The LOTR song would more than do the trick by itself. Or when someone gets a new theme, they take the beginning part of their previous song and then do a horrible cut to the new theme. I remember some songs had like 2-4 cuts and it screams low budget indy-fest.

    With hundreds of thousands of songs at their disposal, they should make better use of it. Some of my favorite themes are WWE instrumentals and they define the wrestler so much, unlike RAHHHHHHDEATHMETALHEADBANG songs that are so overused in ROH.

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    I agree with this also.

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    OMG CEWSH IS VICE'S SOCK

    You guys should come home for the next show here and tell Cary what to do. He hangs out in line before hand and talks to people.

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    The announcement on several news sites concerning Pearce follows with 'The plan is to feature more of a "1970s style" of wrestling.'

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    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyIowan View Post
    The announcement on several news sites concerning Pearce follows with 'The plan is to feature more of a "1970s style" of wrestling.'
    ?

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    Samoa Joe is returning for one night in Chicago on 11/22.

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    You gonna go blackening?

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    No, but I wish I was.

    They seem to be putting a lot of stock into this show trying to get the attendance up.

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    gabe will probably be back as booker in 6 months or something.

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    RoH's needs to upgrade their production and scenary. The shitty sound system, the dingy atmosphere. All the RoH dvd's I have, they all look like they wrestled in the same place with the same shit PA system. Half the time I don't even understand what is being said in an in-ring promo. You couldn't put that product on national t.v., and you can't expect it to catch on with ppv when they don't even look like they could afford being on ppv to begin with.

    RoH needs some serious financial backing to get them a nice set, better sound quality (entrances included). Even if it was just for the ppv's....
    Last edited by UncannyIowan; October 27th, 2008 at 3:11 PM.

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    Fuck I'm really pissed. They shut down the ROH boards (temporarily they claim) because all the traffic was making the rest of the site lag. While the makes complete sense, I wanted to see everyone going crazy. I wish they had a backup or something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    Butch is the better booker anyway.
    Judging on what exactly?

    I'm not going to add any criticisms, because everyone Batter especially (about from the above point) have basically covered all my grievances with ROH right now.

    I really think people have been a little harsh on Gabe in the same way people try to dis-credit Heyman by saying he copied Bill Watts and got lucky.

    Gabe did an absolutley great job as booker up until mid 2007. Yes he had the odd bit of luck here and there and had a few storylines fall into his lap, but that's part of the gift and the ride. It's not as if the WWE just hasn't had something fall into their laps before and ran with it now is it? If anything it's a testament to the adaptability and business smarts the guy possess.

    I think a lot of people are forgetting what truly great moments he booked over the years. Yes things got stale, but come on, this guy brought CM Punk to the attention of most of us and booked some absolutley amazing storylines and match up's that arguablly got the guy where he is today. He also booked Samoa Joe like an absolutle beast and got the most out of a guy that I doubt many would even look at properly. He gave Joe a platform and he ate it up, becoming one of the best wrestlers of the past decade. Then you've got the brilliant booking and rise of many youngsters, just look at Matt Sydal right now, look at how awesome Alex Shelley became in TNA and then look back at where exactly he really busted out his potential.

    Gabe's also booked some of the greatest wrestling moments of the past decade. Just think back to Joe's title reign and Aries de-throning, or Punk and Joe's epic triliogy and its intricacy and accuracy. Then there's the many moments that the CZW feud provided us, Homicide's road to the title, Nigel McGuinnes becoming a beast, Bryan Danielson having a platform to have awesome match after awesome match etc etc.

    Yes Gabe certainly got stale and he certainly ran out of fresh ideas, and yes at times he got a bit marky, and yes he booked matche's in a way to samey manner at times, but at the end of the day really think about this, is there any booker that doesn't have those exact same faults? I honestly don't think there is.

    Booking seems like a short term fix in many ways, think about great bookers over the years and think about how long their stints lasted and whenabouts their great stuff started dropping off. Gabe's been no different really and I appreciate what an awesome job he did in ROH for the most part.

    Also, if it wasn't for Gabe would I have ever thrown a bottle at Bryan Danielson?

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    Gabe is being maligned pretty badly, but he's been in terminal decline for at least 4 years now.

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    http://forums.rajah.com/showpost.php...ostcount=12792

    Weird how prophetic I was on that one.

    Anybody still want in on that bet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    Gabe is being maligned pretty badly, but he's been in terminal decline for at least 4 years now.
    That's where your opinion is totally wrong. 2005 and 2006 kicked serious ass, and while 2007 wasn't overly awesome, it had some great shows and some very good storylines.

    2007 was the year in which everything became way to diluted and predictable if anything, and I'd say since the conclusion of The Briscoes vs Steen/Generico feud ROH hasn't had much going for it.

    I don't think you're viewing things in a fair light claiming that the guy has been crappy since 2004, which clearly isn't true.

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    I said he has been in decline since then. Not that he just magically crapped out overnight.

    Thanks for deciding whether or not my opinions are right or wrong though. I appreciate that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    Thanks for deciding whether or not my opinions are right or wrong though. I appreciate that.
    Anytime

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Also, if it wasn't for Gabe would I have ever thrown a bottle at Bryan Danielson?


    They were running too many shows. I think 2007 had around 40 or something ridiculous.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    http://forums.rajah.com/showpost.php...ostcount=12792

    Weird how prophetic I was on that one.

    Anybody still want in on that bet?
    It's all your fault.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Judging on what exactly?
    I was just joking. I had no idea that Luke had experience in booking wrestling before the notes in this thread.

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    I'll take all the credit.

    And very respectful of you, Lem. Very classy.

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    I was trying to think of the stakes for the bet, but it's probably a good thing I didn't come up with anything.

  60. #60
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    From the news thread

    - ROH owner Cary Silkin made the decision to let Gabe Sapolsky go as booker. Sapolsky was told at the ROH show in Edison over the weekend and was said to have been shocked. Things did end on good terms between the two sides. One of the reasons Silkin let Sapolsky go is because the company now thinks that to grow, it will need to focus more on the entertainment side of things and less on the wrestling side. Silkin wants a new direction and feels like the promotion isn't hitting on all cylinders right now. Sapolsky also drove people crazy with his fits from time to time.
    The focusing on the entertainment side is what caught my eye. If that's the case, having Pearce be the booker doesn't quite make sense.

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    Maybe they mean more like old NWA style, with lots of long, workrate heavy matches, but a focus (for the time) on decent production values, and worker interviews.

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    One year. Any takers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vice View Post
    ROH needs to sort out the music situation. Unlike WWE, they can use whatever music they want as entrance themes due to being under the radar, but the music is even more generic!

    A few guys have really good music that stands out, but so much is just "*heavy guitar* rarrarrararhrahrhasajakdla!!!". Or they have have too many intros and shit tacked on. Hero, for example. "somethingsomething knock out kid, CHRIS... HEEERO", followed by the beginning part of "I Need a Hero" or whatever song that is, followed by the LOTR song. The LOTR song would more than do the trick by itself. Or when someone gets a new theme, they take the beginning part of their previous song and then do a horrible cut to the new theme. I remember some songs had like 2-4 cuts and it screams low budget indy-fest.

    With hundreds of thousands of songs at their disposal, they should make better use of it. Some of my favorite themes are WWE instrumentals and they define the wrestler so much, unlike RAHHHHHHDEATHMETALHEADBANG songs that are so overused in ROH.
    Dude, this used to be my favorite part of ROH. All the "DANGER DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE" and "Final Countdown" (which I'm pretty sure is still around) and Claudio's theme that started as the NBC Olympic song and then went into that DUH DUH DUH DA DA DA, DUH DA DUH! Also Hero and Claudio using "We Are The Champions" for a while! Man. I miss that shit. I think I'm going to watch some 2006 ROH soon.

    Is the music really that bad now?

    Quote Originally Posted by UncannyIowan View Post
    The announcement on several news sites concerning Pearce follows with 'The plan is to feature more of a "1970s style" of wrestling.'
    This sounds awesome to me.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post


    One year. Any takers?
    Can I go less than a year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M. View Post
    Dude, this used to be my favorite part of ROH. All the "DANGER DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE" and "Final Countdown" (which I'm pretty sure is still around) and Claudio's theme that started as the NBC Olympic song and then went into that DUH DUH DUH DA DA DA, DUH DA DUH! Also Hero and Claudio using "We Are The Champions" for a while! Man. I miss that shit. I think I'm going to watch some 2006 ROH soon.

    Is the music really that bad now?
    Claudio's has changed up a bit but basically the same, Hero's is actually pretty cool from what I remember (though he has gone through about 3 or 4 in a relatively short time period), Dragon hasn't changed (nor have Aries, Strong, Nigel, Briscoes and probably some other people you remember).

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    World Champion Brian M.'s Avatar
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    That's good. I heard the Briscoes music the other night and it made me miss watching ROH. But I still have no desire to buy DVDs or search out shows or anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M. View Post
    Dude, this used to be my favorite part of ROH. All the "DANGER DANGER HIGH VOLTAGE" and "Final Countdown" (which I'm pretty sure is still around) and Claudio's theme that started as the NBC Olympic song and then went into that DUH DUH DUH DA DA DA, DUH DA DUH! Also Hero and Claudio using "We Are The Champions" for a while! Man. I miss that shit. I think I'm going to watch some 2006 ROH soon.

    Is the music really that bad now?
    Those are exceptions, but I think Vice is reffering to the shite used by the likes of BJ Whitmer and Brent Albright, and the many others on the roster.

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    When we reviewed the show, it was just very clear to us that very little thought was going into who got what music.

    Little cocky guys had like huge Iron Maiden stuff, and guys like Albright had random generic metal. But alot of guys hadn't changed their entrance at all in years and years. That's another way you become stale, you present something that everyone has already seen over and over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    When we reviewed the show, it was just very clear to us that very little thought was going into who got what music.

    Little cocky guys had like huge Iron Maiden stuff, and guys like Albright had random generic metal. But alot of guys hadn't changed their entrance at all in years and years. That's another way you become stale, you present something that everyone has already seen over and over.
    I think it was a case of the wrestlers picking their themes without the booker really caring all that much if anything, which is pretty dumb.

    Nigel McGuinnes is a guy who's needed better entrance music for a long time. He needs a real theme that people can get behind, rather than an Oasis B-Side or whatever it is he comes out too.

  71. #71
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    Kensuke Sasaki and Katsuhiko Nakajima are gonna be at Philly and NYC for Final Battle weekend.

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    October 29th: Bryan Danielson has been in contact, and has had spirited dialogue, with the ROH Booking Committee. We have it on good authority that an announcement of some sort will be made early next week in reference to these talks.


    Danielson on booking committee?

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackening View Post
    October 29th: Bryan Danielson has been in contact, and has had spirited dialogue, with the ROH Booking Committee. We have it on good authority that an announcement of some sort will be made early next week in reference to these talks.


    Danielson on booking committee?
    Pearce is kayfabing this shit. It'll be asking for a title match or something.

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    Danielson has a title match against Nigel on 11/22.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackening View Post
    Danielson has a title match against Nigel on 11/22.
    A stip in that match then.

  76. #76
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    And now Marufuji is coming to to Final Battle weekend in addition to Sasaki and Nakajima. Nigel/Maru II in New York I'm guessing.

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    I was hoping that Gabe being gone would mean the end of the pointless booking of wrestlers from Japan.

    I'm not talking about Marufuji, obviously, as ROH fans love him by now. But I don't want to watch shows with random guys that I have no emotional attachment to in main event slots. Not every ROH fan follows the Japanese wrestling scene.

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    11/1 ROHbot Report (Exclusive Kevin Steen Interview): http://www.worldwrestlinginsanity.co...ve/11108.shtml

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M. View Post
    I was hoping that Gabe being gone would mean the end of the pointless booking of wrestlers from Japan.

    I'm not talking about Marufuji, obviously, as ROH fans love him by now. But I don't want to watch shows with random guys that I have no emotional attachment to in main event slots. Not every ROH fan follows the Japanese wrestling scene.
    Like Kota Ibushi?

    I'm guessing these were already booked before Gabe left.

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    Can someone do me a favor and post the link to the Kevin Steen interview I did on the roh message board for me. I can't log in since the board went down after Gabe's release. I've tried to get a hold of someone, but it's been taking a while. Big thanks to whoever helps.

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    Morishima is coming back for Final Battle 2008 weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackening View Post
    Morishima is coming back for Final Battle 2008 weekend.
    I can finally complete by European Navigation VIP set and my Glory By Honor VI Night 1 DVD.

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    Finally an end to Dragon/Morishima, I hope.

    Along with Marufuji/Nigel, that weekend should be great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeb View Post
    Can someone do me a favor and post the link to the Kevin Steen interview I did on the roh message board for me. I can't log in since the board went down after Gabe's release. I've tried to get a hold of someone, but it's been taking a while. Big thanks to whoever helps.
    Can someone help a brotha out, please?

  85. #85
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    I don't post there...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeb View Post
    Can someone help a brotha out, please?
    This one?

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/...3/6246481.html

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Montreal Results



    Markham Results




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    I agree with you about the DQs.

    On the bright side, maybe they'll get London back.

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    World Champion Brian M.'s Avatar
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    I'm happy they're running DQ and countout finishes as long as they don't go too overboard with them. Don't make them copouts and it will be fine.

    It annoyed me when a regular match would involve a brawl all over the place with tons of weapons, and then they'd try to sell me that the next match was "NO HOLDS BARRED OMG." Uhh, I'm pretty sure the last match I watched was no holds barred too because the ref didn't so much as flinch at the 55 chair shots.

    So this makes gimmick matches more meaningful, at least.

    EDIT: Them getting London back would be a great pickup, though I'd prefer to see them go after someone like Cade or Murdoch first. They have guys like London already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M. View Post
    It annoyed me when a regular match would involve a brawl all over the place with tons of weapons, and then they'd try to sell me that the next match was "NO HOLDS BARRED OMG." Uhh, I'm pretty sure the last match I watched was no holds barred too because the ref didn't so much as flinch at the 55 chair shots.
    Ahahah yes. Those were the best. I can't remember which show it was, but there was a normal match that involved chairs, ladders, and every other weapon imaginable, and the fall was counted on the outside. Then the next match was their "highly anticipated" "falls count anywhere" match that involved one chair and a pinfall inside the ring. It might not have been ROH, but I'm fairly damn sure it was.

    One of my favorite things was the billing of taped fist matches. "THEIR FISTS ARE LIKE METAL WITH THE TAPE AROUND THEM!".. and yet, every time two guys would throw it down (ala Joe and Low Ki), to show that they were serious business they would take the tape off their hands and Gabe would go bananas because of how hard they were going to hit each other without having tape on their fists. It was eyebrow raising for sure.

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    Kenny King and Rhett Titus tag team?

    My dream has come true.

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    Tyler Black vs. Samoa Joe on 11/22.

    Hopefully Black will have a great match like he's had with Danielson and Nigel.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    I'm actually quite excited for that one.

    Ha me thinking though, when was the last time Joe had a truly awesome match? I honestly think the last one I can actually think of was his last ROH match with Nigel.....

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    I liked any of his TNA matches with Christian or AJ personally.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mills View Post
    I liked any of his TNA matches with Christian or AJ personally.
    Ah yeh, forgot those Christian matche's, I dug those. Can't remember a match with AJ for a good while though.

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    See, I'm remembering their X-Division title matches back when that title had relevance.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mills View Post
    See, I'm remembering their X-Division title matches back when that title had relevance.
    Well yeah, I loved those matche's, but they didn't take place in the time frame I was reffering to.

  98. #98
    Burrell 4 MVP maxx powerz's Avatar
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    To be honest, Joe was the fucking shit in 2004 in ROH, and everything after that was pretty hit or miss, so its not even like its a TNA thing with him, he just got complacent or something. I guess you could say ROH ran out of things for him to do and he got disinterested, but I think if you add up all of Joe's awesome stuff from 05, 06 and 07, his stuff from 04 still beats it.

    That said, this upcoming Chicago show is probably the most excited I've been for a ROH show all year. Pumped for Joe vs. Black, Danielson and Nigel never fail to deliver, and Aries and Jacobs have been doing a lot of good stuff, so I'm hoping they'll provide a fitting finale. If ROH can't deliver the goods here, I don't know if I'm going to have much optimism for them going forward.

  99. #99
    Version 647.2 FollowTheThreeEyes's Avatar
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    Danielson vs Morishima in a Fight Without Honor at Final Battle! (Does happy dance)

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    That's awesome.

    I know Black/Joe is new, but I wish Nigel wasn't tied up that night. Joe/Nigel right now would be awesome. Nigel has come along way since their last match and Nigel would be such a great dick heel for Joe to play on.

    Wish I was going that night.

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