The Ring of Honor Thread

[DDT]

Really good show from ROH. The main event was especially good; I liked how they made the Jay Driller look like a killshot, and how it was Lethal's knowledge of how to counter it that was the deciding factor in his victory. I DIDN'T like that there wasn't more overt cheating by Lethal in this match, as it's really hard to boo Lethal now; minus a low-blow that was almost glossed over, he won the match fair and square. Why should I boo him, because he's an ass-hole? Heels need to be more than ass-holes.

Hopefully they do something like, Donovan Dijak gets his TV title shot finally, only for Lethal to do the old "Michaels-HHH" finish where Lethal, the World champion, lays down and lets Dijak pin him. Instant heat in a company where they pride themselves on never-say-die tough guys.

Overall though, I loved the shit out of the event. Everybody say it with me..MOOSE! MOOSE! MOOSE!​

[Mills]

[Hero!]

Dude, Moose got such a pop from all of us it was insane. The Moose girls came up to level 3, where I was standing, and these geeks were buying them all drinks. It was amazing to watch.

[DDT]

I bet my fantasy booking where Moose was in the main event doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?!

[Mills]

If Moose stays in ROH, and it seems like a huge if after his initial deal is up, I could see him as a badass champ taking the belt from Lethal. They seem to be gearing Lethal up for a very long run

[Nash Diesel]

Man Lethal is so fucking boring though even with Truth but Truth has been saddled with some boring ass dudes ROH tried to peg as awesome (Michael Elgin, Matt Taven). But it was a good move on ROH's part to put the strap on Jay Lethal as they are really lacking heels that could help elevate the faces. Jay Briscoe was running out of heels to work with as well.

[Hero!]

Jay Lethal is the ultimate example of why booking is important. They booked him to matter, booked him to be a top star, booked to him look better than he was. The result? Everyone gave a shit when he won the belt. The live energy for his win was insane. I don't even care for Lethal, but that was one of the coolest title wins I've experienced live.

This reminds me so much of how Paul E could take anyone and make them a top star.

[Nash Diesel]

I heard the crowd was pretty weak, can you back that up?

[Hero!]

Crowd was hot live. The venue sucked, so i'm sure no one could hear us on levels 2 & 3. Best pops of the night were definitely 1) Bullet Club 2) Lethal's win 3) MOOSE.

[Nash Diesel]

lol Moose. I was suprised he didn't win but I guess they need to give the Orton of ROH another title shot.

[Hero!]

I was no fan of Roddy winning, but I'd rather that he be the first to lose to Lethal rather than Moose losing his first title shot.

[DDT]

Putting Strong in there for the first challenger is the right move; his history with the House of Truth, he's a legitimate draw on the indy scene, and, whatever else you can say about him, he's been improving his in-ring game a lot, and I don't just mean from a MOVEZ standpoint.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah I like Roddy as well but the way they've pushed Moose I was just like, this dude is wayyyyyyy too green right now to even be TV champion let alone World champion. But I figured they maybe wanted to do something different just like when they put Hanson in the title mix earlier this year even though he wasn't exactly up at that level yet. I definitely didn't want to see Michael fucking Elgin get a shot so Roddy was a good choice. But at least with Moose it was less predictable. Again I'm glad they didn't go with him.

[Cewsh]

I bet my fantasy booking where Moose was in the main event doesn't sound so stupid now, does it?!

Poor DDT.

[Defrost]

[Morrison]

well, buying my tickets now.

[Mills]

Michael Elgin looks like a twat

[Hero!]

Saw ads for that when I was there last week. Probz gonna do the Saturday show and do a whole weekend of rassling shows since I'll be at WWE's friday show and Summerslam on Sunday.

[Defrost]

Briscoes vs Time Splitters announced for Field of Honor

[Nash Diesel]

That's going to be pretty sweet. I can't get enough Alex Shelley, very underrated competitor.

[Hero!]

Guess who's back?

[Nash Diesel]

Probably hear him talk about how shitty TNA was, how ROH is great, just like the last time he returned. I'm hoping he'll stick around and not just confront Jay Lethal and then get beat.

[Hero!]

He could be the guy to take the TV title.

[Nash Diesel]

He could be but for some reason I'm seeing Dijack taking the TV title from Jay.

[Hero!]

I wouldn't mind, I dig Dijack. If not him then Moose should take it. People are calling for Moose to be the one who beats Lethal for the World title and I just don't get that at all.

[Nash Diesel]

Because deep down even the biggest indy mark has a little Vince McMahon in their head going "Look at that "big" guy!!" Moose is what, 6'1"? Looks like a giant compared to most ROH wrestlers so of couse they think he should be the next World champ regardless of how fucking green and boring he is lol. Everytime I see him I think of MMA fighter Gary Goodridge.

[Hero!]

It's not just size, though, it's the whole package. Dude has a presence that most indie wrestlers lack. Doing the Moose air pump thing is the ROH version of D-Bry's "Yes!" motion and it's worked pretty well in making people forget how sloppy Moose is in the ring. I do like the guy, but he should not hold your top title. Secondary title, though? I think that's fair game.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm being 100% honest when I say this but the man to beat Jay Lethal for the TV title, if not a face turning Dijack, should be Dalton Castle. But like with most ROH talent, when you have something more than just "I'm a wrestler" as your gimmick then they strip that down considerably. Look at Mike Bennett, the guy was always talking about how he was a sports entertainer not a wrestler, WWE were knocking at his door, he was a blue chipper, etc. Then the next thing you know he shaves his head and is strictly WRESTLER now. So I hope Dalton gets to be Dalton and doesn't turn vanilla like so many that are in ROH.

[Hero!]

I think Castle will be fine. Dude is on another planet in terms of character and gimmick, whereas Bennett's primary talent is dating Maria. Good call on him as TV champion, though. That should really happen. Dude is a living television character, he should represent the company's television championship.

[Nash Diesel]

I just think that if you are appealing to Western fans, you're appealing to a very very small demographic who just likes to watch dudes wrestle. I love pro wrestling, but I can't just watch a bunch of vanilla characters going at it especially in ROH where it seems like a lot of wrestlers do the same spots, same moves, it's not mind blowing to see half the shit these guys do anymore because so many already have done it and are still doing it. You need something that stands out which is probably why I'm more of a Jay Briscoe-Dalton Castle fan than I am a Jay Lethal-Roderick Strong-Michael Elgin fan.

Dalton Castle in ROH sticks out like no other, it's almost blasphemous to see someone with that much color to their character in ROH.

[Hero!]

ROH is on the right track with their current booking, their TV show, the New Japan partnership, but they're still missing something in terms of characters. They need to stop hiring guys who all look the same and find a few more guys who can act a bit. I don't want it to get too character-driven and "#NerdCool" like every other indie, but having a few guys who can walk through the curtain and make people look at them is what they need most right now. If ROH wants to continue to grow, they need guys who can go do radio or TV and grab peoples' attention at the airport.

[Defrost]

Oh my God. You've been Kevin Nash this whole time.

[DDT]

Good news: ROH is bringing in joshi superstar Nanae Takahashi.

Bad news: She's wrestling ODB.

[Nash Diesel]

ODB seems like the type of person who would do great in Japanese death matches. I wonder what happened to ROH's women's division. They had a couple solid talents coming in and then nothing. Did Elgin fuck all that up because it seemed like they were building it around MsChif, his wife.

[DDT]

That stopped long before Elgin was even really on the roster. They wanted to do a deal with SHIMMER but only ever seemed to book Sara Del Ray, MsChif, and Daizee Haze. Fair enough as they were the three big names at the time (along with Allison Danger) but they shouldn't be surprised their women's division fell flat on its face.

[Nash Diesel]

I remember there was a decent looking girl that was very green, Cherry Bomb or some shit, I think they said she had only been training for 6 months at the ROH school and MsChif beat her ass like it was a rite of passage lol.

[Defrost]

Okada vs Strong and reDragon vs Shinsuke and Lethal added to Field of Honor

[The Law]

Watched the show tonight. First time watching ROH in a long time. Nothing wrong with it, but it didn't wow me. They just don't have anybody who really pops off the screen. Jay Lethal is good and I'm intrigued by him being a double champion and having to defend both titles.

I'll try to keep up more with ROH, but definitely not appointment viewing for me.

[Rancid_Planet]

There are next to zero stories in ROH. And I get it, that's their thing. Wrestling first. But I don't just like good wrestling, of which there is much in ROH. I like a good story too. That part is important and not nearly a big enough part of the ROH program.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't even need like a big Bray Wyatt type storyline going on. Shit if they want to just wrestle at least give us some background on these people, who trained them, why are they wrestling, what drives them. 80% of these guys cut the same promos but hey, the wrestling is top notch for sure.

[DDT]

The last TV show was everything that was both good and bad about ROH, especially that main event. Everything about it was good, had the crowd going bananas, and made everyone looked good. And then they just...kept...kicking...OUT!!! To the point of where Michael Elgin took a Spiked Piledriver, the Kingdom's finish, and kicked at 2!!! Admittedly, it looked like it was a boched break-up attempt from his teammates, but that wouldn't have been an issue if every finishing stretch had to have a million false finishes, especially when they had a really good one already with two kicks to the head and an assisted top-rope powerbomb.


I have never seen a crowd go from 'This is awesome' to 'This match sucks'. It was surreal.

[Nash Diesel]

I remember a year or 2 ago Mark Madden made a comment about ROH and how they sell and this was around the time Bennett dropped BJ Whitmer with that piledriver on the outside apron so ROH was a big topic for a few days. So he says you watch, most if not all ROH wrestlers only sell for 7 seconds. He wasn't shitting, the next episode I watched I counted, Davey Richards sold a move for barely 7 seconds. It was a big power move as well and then Richards just gets up and goes into berzerk kick mode. I know Mark was being a smart ass but it's how a lot of wrestlers are, not just in ROH but even in the WWE. Sometimes you just wonder wait a minute, that dude just got hit with 12 superkicks, a spinning tornado DDT into a piledriver off the top rope 450 brainbuster combo....and they dont' even sell it for more than a couple seconds lol.

[Hero!]

That's why WWE developmental is so crucial to so many of these indie guys. Learning to sell, tell a story, and let the match breathe is a huge factor that separates an indie match from a WWE match. Hell, go back and watch the Joe/Punk series. The first 2 matches are just them chain wrestling and selling for each other, before going balls out in match 3. It told a crazy good story and couldn't have happened if they were just murdering one another and then resurrecting themselves.

[Nash Diesel]

That's why WWE developmental is so crucial to so many of these indie guys. Learning to sell, tell a story, and let the match breathe is a huge factor that separates an indie match from a WWE match. Hell, go back and watch the Joe/Punk series. The first 2 matches are just them chain wrestling and selling for each other, before going balls out in match 3. It told a crazy good story and couldn't have happened if they were just murdering one another and then resurrecting themselves.

And that's why I think some of the ROH talent just hasn't made it to that level that guys like Punk, Joe, Danielson, etc. were at because they understood how to tell a story and when to bust out the craziness. There are only a handful of wrestlers who have those same qualities on today's roster, everyone else seems to just want to get over by how crazy of a dive they can do or what 17 high impact moves can they pull off in 2 minutes.

[Hero!]

and then you have guys like The Young Bucks who ham it up on purpose and the marks lap it up.

[Nash Diesel]

Yep and I can still appreciate that approach whether it's genuine or not on the wrestlers' end but still I'm not part of this ADD group of wrestling fans who need everything now now now now and want every match to look like Smackdown v. Raw video games. Funny thing is this used to be my gripe and still kind of is about Japanese wrestling. You see 100 powerbombs, a couple variations of the finisher, and the match ends with a spinning forearm that was used in a back and forth forearm segment 5 minutes prior. They no sell that shit then it finishes them? Yet still fun to watch aside from those little things.

[Hero!]

Hey Nash Diesel, what can a peacock do to a Moose?

[MikeHunt]

Hey Nash Diesel, what can a peacock do to a Moose?

Hes fantastic!

[Hero!]

Castle vs Grado plz

[Nash Diesel]

Love it.

Going to be a really good match. Aries back in ROH is solid, definitely some matches I can't wait to see i.e. Aries v. Castle!

[MikeHunt]

Castle vs Grado plz

battle of the entrances!

spoilers, GRADO WINS

[OD50]

Love it.

Going to be a really good match. Aries back in ROH is solid, definitely some matches I can't wait to see i.e. Aries v. Castle!

Huh?

Oh, didn't know about this..

VEGAS WILD CARD MAIN EVENT

Jay Lethal, Austin Aries, and Moose vs. Jay Briscoe, Dalton Castle, and Kyle O'Reilly

TNA stars sure are spreading like leaves in the wind as of late..

[Nash Diesel]

I think TNA is going the non-exclusive route with a lot of wrestlers. Everyone who has left recently has straight up said they were not closing the door on TNA. Kong, Aries, Storm, etc. all have said that you could still see them in TNA down the road. Smart move on TNA's part, this is more like the old days where they were bringing in a lot of unsigned talent.

[Hero!]

That blood censorship on O'Reilly looked ridiculous

[Defrost]

I think TNA is going the non-exclusive route with a lot of wrestlers. Everyone who has left recently has straight up said they were not closing the door on TNA. Kong, Aries, Storm, etc. all have said that you could still see them in TNA down the road. Smart move on TNA's part, this is more like the old days where they were bringing in a lot of unsigned talent.

Hard to have exclusive deals when you don't exist

[Nash Diesel]

Hard to have exclusive deals when you don't exist

That's true if we were talking about a company that didn't exist.

[Hero!]

Does anybody else watch this or just me?

Episode 200 was pretty cool. I wish they'd have used some different moments for the look backs, but the main event was really good. I love the house of truth so much.

[Tainted Eclipse]

every major ippv i've watched in the past year+ i've found boring and very disappointing so have never given their show a try. maybe i'll try it out once lucha underground is over to try to fill the void.

[Nash Diesel]

Does anybody else watch this or just me?

Episode 200 was pretty cool. I wish they'd have used some different moments for the look backs, but the main event was really good. I love the house of truth so much.

I'm about 6 shows behind, maybe 5. I watched 2 last night, the "newest" show I watched had the Briscoes v. War Machine rematch, probably aired in late May. This was not the match where Mark got rock bottom'd off the apron through a table but the rematch where Hanson got 2 Jay Drillas to get beat.

[The Law]

The 8:00 PM airing has been dropped from Destination America's schedule for the next two weeks. Unclear if it's permanent or not. Some bigfoot show is airing instead.

[Rancid_Planet]

The 8:00 PM airing has been dropped from Destination America's schedule for the next two weeks. Unclear if it's permanent or not. Some bigfoot show is airing instead.

I wonder if they made that decision at some point during the last few weeks when the replay was actually doing significantly better numbers than the original airing.

[Rancid_Planet]

Also I have it on good authority Bigfoot will be scrubbed from all DA programming soon in the wake of a scandal involving a recording of Bigfoot making RACISS comments.

[Morrison]

ah ha! topical joke! yes yes!

[The Law]

Looks like the 8:00 PM airing is done for good. The "wrestling boom" of 2015 rolls on.

[Hero!]

The wrestling boom and the divas revolution seem to be going the same way

[Beer-Belly]

I wish PWG had ROH's spot.

Fuck, I'd be happy if PWG just did iPPVs. I want to see this year's BOLA badly.

[Tainted Eclipse]

same, im not the biggest PWG fan but this year's BOLA looks great

[Hero!]

So did last years and I was pretty disappointed. I'd rather be able to watch King of Trios.

[Defrost]

Full Brooklyn card

[Hero!]

I love Mark Briscoe

[Nash Diesel]

Mark Briscoe is probably my 2nd favorite in Ring of Honor in terms of entertainment value. #1 obviously Dalton Castle, but Mark is fucking great. His promos are wild and this video is probably the funniest thing I've seen all summer.

[Hero!]

My ROH top 5 would be:

1) Jay Lethal
2) The Briscoes
3) Bullet Club
4) Dalton Castle
5) reDRagon

[Nash Diesel]

I'm a big fan of Silas Young.

[Hero!]

Whyyyyyyyyyy

[Nash Diesel]

Whyyyyyyyyyy

I just love his gimmick. A lot of truth in what he says at times. The guy could be a top heel or a top babyface.

You know who just flat out bores the shit out of me? Michael Fuckin' Elgin. What on Earth does ROH see in this guy?

[Hero!]

Dude, Michael Elgin is probably my most hated guy in wrestling. I despise Michael Elgin.

Lemme tell you something, that dude has been KILLING IT in New Japan the last month. Something about Elgin's style just lends itself perfectly to Japanese style. I hate it, I hate that I have to give Elgin any kind of props, but my god, he has been INCREDIBLE.

[Nash Diesel]

Well that's because you can be a boring as fuck turd in Japan but still get over if you use 100 forearm smashes and a lariat.

[Hero!]

We've been getting along so well, don't make me hate you again.

[Nash Diesel]

haha, I'm not generalizing Japanese wrestling with that comment but Johnny Ace, Bart Gunn, turds in other organizations, mega stars in Japan. They're just more accepting I think than American fans.

[Big_Dre]

I know I am the ONLY one...but I cannot get into either Dalton Castle or Silas Young. I may be missing some things that make you guys love them because I only watch ROH TV, but neither one is my cup of tea. I find Castle to be annoying and seems like he's trying too hard, while Young is the opposite and is just boring to me. Having them feuding with each other is perfect because, and I know this sounds horrible...I can fast forward through their bits.

[Nash Diesel]

My oldest son who's 14 actually introduced me to Dalton. He had seen some stuff of his pre-ROH but I never saw anything until the top prospect tournament where he was jobbed out. I don't know if it's my love for Queen, the 70's, but this guy reminds me of something out of that time heavily inspired by Freddie Mercury. A nice spin on the walking the gender line gimmicks of the past like Adrian Adonis and Goldust.

[OD50]

I like the character and gimmick, feel his ring work needs some polish though. Does some great stuff but a little spotty and rough around the edges at times. Is it true the dude was a pretty good amateur wrestler? Hard to believe with that peacock/Freddie Mercury gimmick of his.

[OD50]

Kind of looks like Leapin' Lanny Poffo honestly. Wish Poffo had a gimmick like this back in the day. "The Genius" was kind of half and half at times anyway.

[Hero!]

I like the character and gimmick, feel his ring work needs some polish though. Does some great stuff but a little spotty and rough around the edges at times. Is it true the dude was a pretty good amateur wrestler? Hard to believe with that peacock/Freddie Mercury gimmick of his.

From every interview i've seen of him, the amateur wrestling seems to be legit. The gimmick is brillz. Dude is a gimmick king.

[OD50]

That's pretty cool. Doubt many amateur wrestlers would "stoop" to doing that kind of gimmick (thinking of the Steiners, Dr Death, WGTT and so on..). But damn, if that doesn't look like a tribute to Johnny Polo back in the day.

[Hero!]

Better amateur wrestlers. More gimmicky.

[OD50]

Wasn't referring to having an actual gimmick, more along the lines of Dalton and his "boys" being sort of, uh.. Freddie Mercury'ish..

Kurt Angle is waay better than all of them and he did some outright goofy (entertaining) shit.

[Hero!]

I don't really get it. What does his amateur background have to do with his boys?

[Hero!]

Ring of Honor just announced on Facebook that they and New Japan have a big announcement for tomorrow regarding their relationship.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't really get it. What does his amateur background have to do with his boys?

Hes saying that due to how masculine and "macho" real wrestlers are its hard to imagine someone like Lesnar or Dr Death doing such a homo erotic or "ambiguous" as Vinny Mac calls it type character.

Still not following?

[Defrost]

Ring of Honor just announced on Facebook that they and New Japan have a big announcement for tomorrow regarding their relationship.

Do you think that they'd just reiterate what was said at the G1 Final?

[OD50]

Hes saying that due to how masculine and "macho" real wrestlers are its hard to imagine someone like Lesnar or Dr Death doing such a homo erotic or "ambiguous" as Vinny Mac calls it type character.

Still not following?

Correct. I thought that was quite obvious. like Lou Thesz probably wouldn't enjoy doing the Gorgeous George character. I have nothing against that sort of gimmick though, loved Adrian Adonis, original Goldust, Adrian Street and others. I even enjoyed Orlando Jordan doing that weird shit in TNA.

[Hero!]

Hes saying that due to how masculine and "macho" real wrestlers are its hard to imagine someone like Lesnar or Dr Death doing such a homo erotic or "ambiguous" as Vinny Mac calls it type character.

Still not following?

I followed, I just think the reasoning is stupid. Amateur wrestling is pretty homoerotic anyway.

[Nash Diesel]

I followed, I just think the reasoning is stupid. Amateur wrestling is pretty homoerotic anyway.

You said you didn't get it so I was just making sure you understood. Is the reasoning stupid? Not really, you have to remember as open and tolerant you youngsters might be, pre-9/11 there weren't so many especially the old timers.

[Hero!]

True, I forget how old you 2 guys are.

[Nash Diesel]

True, I forget how old you 2 guys are.

Yeah we came up in a time where people in their 20's didn't still wear pampers and cry about everything that didn't agree with them

[Hero!]

They're not pampers, they're huggies, grandpa. You're only a few years away from needing them again yourself.

[Tainted Eclipse]

You said you didn't get it so I was just making sure you understood. Is the reasoning stupid? Not really, you have to remember as open and tolerant you youngsters might be, pre-9/11 there weren't so many especially the old timers.

9/11 was a true watershed for gay rights

[Nash Diesel]

9/11 was a true watershed for gay rights

For all mankind

[Defrost]

Do you think that they'd just reiterate what was said at the G1 Final?

Yup