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Thread: The Ring of Honor Thread

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Explain.
    This is my opinion, for the record.

    His look is subpar, his in ring skills aren't even top 10 in his own company, and his mic skills are simply not there.

    Ring of Honor needs someone to build around to drive strong business at this point, and while Black has alot of fire and an entertaining moveset, he hasn't shown me anything that might allow him to rise above being just another young indy worker and be something special.

    I know people think i'm cynical about Ring of Honor, and that's fair. But in this I absolutely don't understand how anyone could think that he could be that one guy when he hasn't done anything in any way special or noteworthy without someone else of a much higher talent grade than himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Why are you so sure Aries will never leave? TNA could well give him another go surely?
    Didn't they part on extremely bad terms?

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Yeah Aries wore an ROH shirt to a meet and greet and was suspended and shit and pseudo-shot on TNA at Driven. Plus he's now in charge of Friday shows and has a lot more responsibility. The odds of him going back to TNA are the same of him going to WWE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    I know people think i'm cynical about Ring of Honor, and that's fair. But in this I absolutely don't understand how anyone could think that he could be that one guy when he hasn't done anything in any way special or noteworthy without someone else of a much higher talent grade than himself.
    While I for the most part disagree with Cewsh on Tyler Black, he has hit on something here. Tyler's best singles matches have been against Aries, Danielson and Nigel. He needs to have more singles matches before becoming champion. How would he match up with Roddy or Albright or Hero or Claudio in singles is something that needs to be seen.
    Last edited by chotliwala; December 30th, 2008 at 1:19 PM.

  3. #203
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    His look is subpar? How on earth?

    He's 22 years old. His ring skills are pretty fucking good for a 22 year old. Sure, if we're talking about him becoming the "face" of ROH in the next 6 months, then I understand where you're coming from, but this guy has decades ahead of him.

    As for mic skills, I haven't really seen any proper Tyler promos, so I can't comment. I've been lead to believe that the potential to improve is there though.

    ...

    Not sure about Aries, I know he no-showed, but so have others who have been given second chances. Not the best situation to be in though, granted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    His look is subpar? How on earth?

    He's 22 years old. His ring skills are pretty fucking good for a 22 year old. Sure, if we're talking about him becoming the "face" of ROH in the next 6 months, then I understand where you're coming from, but this guy has decades ahead of him.

    As for mic skills, I haven't really seen any proper Tyler promos, so I can't comment. I've been lead to believe that the potential to improve is there though.

    ...

    Not sure about Aries, I know he no-showed, but so have others who have been given second chances. Not the best situation to be in though, granted.
    - Black is tall but not very muscular, and he's not a particular good looking, or unique looking individual. He looks like the tall skinny version of every indy talent in America right now.

    Sure, he's 22 and could improve drastically, especially working with top notch in ring talent like he has been, but you asked if he was the future, and I tell you that there's nothing in his style, his move set, or what i've seen of his grasp of psychology that marks him out for such lofty status among st his peers.

    He could prove me wrong and be absurdly good one day, but how can I say that he'll be the future for decades to come when I don't know if Ring of Honor will even be around next year, much less decades from now?

    - I've seen his Age of the Fall interviews, and some of his individual efforts up through September, and i'm telling you that he is every bit as dry and passionless a promo as 90% of the rest of the ROH roster.

    I get why you and others see potential in him. I do.

    I don't get why anyone would consider him a unique talent.

  5. #205
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    - Black is tall but not very muscular, and he's not a particular good looking, or unique looking individual. He looks like the tall skinny version of every indy talent in America right now.
    If you take out tall, isn't that basically a description of Bryan Danielson?

    I don't get why anyone would consider him a unique talent.
    He has that 'it' quality to him. He connects with the crowd really well and can play face, heel and tweener all at the same time basically.

    Black's got some improvements to make, but it seems like you're dismissing him off the bat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    If you take out tall, isn't that basically a description of Bryan Danielson?



    He has that 'it' quality to him. He connects with the crowd really well and can play face, heel and tweener all at the same time basically.

    Black's got some improvements to make, but it seems like you're dismissing him off the bat.
    First of all, i've never seen a human being as pale as Bryan Danielson, so he's unique right there. And besides that, Danielson is basically a once in a generation talent at what he does and has gotten over exclusively on his in ring talent. There's no comparing the two.

    See you say that Black has this "it" quality, but i've never seen it in him. He has good fire and the fans like him, and that's great. But that doesn't mean that he has some magical "it" factor that will draw people to his feuds. I might just be missing it, I don't know, but i've not seen what you're referring to.

    And seriously, if you're a face, a heel, and a tweener at the same time, then you aren't doing your job right.

    I don't dislike this guy, and I don't want to sell him short, but he's getting the same treatment that Davey Richards got when he debuted, where he was instantly the future regardless of alot of glaring flaws. This works the same way. You can't just gloss over the bad stuff because you're so enamored with the good.

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    First of all, i've never seen a human being as pale as Bryan Danielson, so he's unique right there. And besides that, Danielson is basically a once in a generation talent at what he does and has gotten over exclusively on his in ring talent. There's no comparing the two.
    Yeah wasn't meaning to say that Black is the next Danielson, just how the statement was very generic and could be applied to a lot of people.

    See you say that Black has this "it" quality, but i've never seen it in him. He has good fire and the fans like him, and that's great. But that doesn't mean that he has some magical "it" factor that will draw people to his feuds. I might just be missing it, I don't know, but i've not seen what you're referring to.

    And seriously, if you're a face, a heel, and a tweener at the same time, then you aren't doing your job right.

    I don't dislike this guy, and I don't want to sell him short, but he's getting the same treatment that Davey Richards got when he debuted, where he was instantly the future regardless of alot of glaring flaws. This works the same way. You can't just gloss over the bad stuff because you're so enamored with the good.
    I'll admit that I'm probably a bit biased in his favor because I've been live for two of his better singles matches but I think he could become big for ROH. He has an ability to get people to get behind him. The match with Nigel nobody in the crowd really gave a shit about. Everyone was booing Nigel (well, minus me obviously) and then it turned into holy shit let's go Tyler (again, not me). Yeah it was one match but the place was fucking insane. Louder than Misawa in the same building and Misawa/Kobashi in England. Unglued.

    And he was supposed to be all three at the same time. That's the point. It's easier to be a heel at first but he has been able to become a face just by his actions in the ring and still be a heel when he's doing AOTF stuff.

    I can see the Davey comparison. I don't think it's gotten that bad as he's actually had good matches, but if he has shit matches with some of the upper-midcarders, then I'd agree.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    So I watched ROH from January until the Mania shows this year, and while I've read results and stuff, I can't remember hardly anything that's actually happened outside of Claudio going heel on Danielson, and the whole Aries/Jacobs thing.

    What I'm wondering basically is what ROH matche's actually stand out from this year and are worth a watch?

    I don't want any samey Briscoes matche's with the AOTF, I want to see stuff that is genuinley worth a watch. I loved Tyler Black's matche's with Danielson and Nigel, so I'm wondering how many re-matche's have they had and are they worth watching?

    I loved everything Steen and Generico did this year, have they had any stand out matche's this year that anyone would recommend?

    Basically most regulars on here know my tastes, so recommend me anything that you think I'll like....

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    Well, here are the top 15 matches according to PWTorch:

    15. Briscoe Brothers vs. LAX from Ring of Homicide 2 = ****1/4
    14. El Generico, Shingo, and Dragon Kid vs. Speed Muscle and BxB Hulk from Battle of the Best = ****1/4
    13. Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Speed Muscle from Dragon Gate Challenge 2 = ****1/4
    12. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli from Death Before Dishonor VI = ****1/4
    11. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Kenny Omega = ****1/4 from Bound By Hate
    10. Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico from Age of Insanity = ****1/4
    9. Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs from Vendetta II = ****1/2
    8. Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen from Northern Navigation = ****1/2
    7. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson from 6th Anniversary Show = ****1/2
    6. Brent Albright vs. Adam Pearce from Death Before Dishonor VI = ****1/2
    5. Muscle Outlaws vs. Typhoon from Supercard of Honor III = ****3/4
    4. Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries from Supercard of Honor III = ****3/4
    3. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black from Take No Prisoners = ****3/4
    2. Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries from Rising Above 2007 = ****3/4
    1. Age of the Fall vs. Steenerico from Driven 2008 = *****
    Last edited by blackening; December 30th, 2008 at 5:17 PM.

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    I'm sorry, are they alleging that Adam Pearce and Brent Albright almost had a 5 star match?

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    I did hear it was good.

    I never said I agreed with the list either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackening View Post
    Well, here are the top 15 matches according to PWTorch:

    15. Briscoe Brothers vs. LAX from Ring of Homicide 2 = ****1/4
    14. El Generico, Shingo, and Dragon Kid vs. Speed Muscle and BxB Hulk from Battle of the Best = ****1/4
    13. Kevin Steen and El Generico vs. Speed Muscle from Dragon Gate Challenge 2 = ****1/4
    12. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Claudio Castagnoli from Death Before Dishonor VI = ****1/4
    11. Tyler Black vs. Bryan Danielson vs. Kenny Omega = ****1/4 from Bound By Hate
    10. Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico from Age of Insanity = ****1/4
    9. Austin Aries vs. Jimmy Jacobs from Vendetta II = ****1/2
    8. Nigel McGuinness vs. Kevin Steen from Northern Navigation = ****1/2
    7. Nigel McGuinness vs. Bryan Danielson from 6th Anniversary Show = ****1/2
    6. Brent Albright vs. Adam Pearce from Death Before Dishonor VI = ****1/2
    5. Muscle Outlaws vs. Typhoon from Supercard of Honor III = ****3/4
    4. Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries from Supercard of Honor III = ****3/4
    3. Nigel McGuinness vs. Tyler Black from Take No Prisoners = ****3/4
    2. Nigel McGuinness vs. Austin Aries from Rising Above 2007 = ****3/4
    1. Age of the Fall vs. Steenerico from Driven 2008 = *****


    I have yet to talk to my fiancee (she'd be driving), but I might go to the 1/31 Chicago show. My biggest concern is the weather.
    I can tell you now that Muscle Oulaws vs Typhoon is not an almost 5 star match. It's a good display of athleticism in a match that's basically a re-hash of two other encounters. Yeah the spots are pretty and cool, but as a match it really isn't anything special.

    Out of those listed, I've seen four of the top 5. I think the only others that I wouldn't mind seeing are Age of the Fall vs Steen/Generico and the Jacobs vs Aries match up's.

    Oh I kinda wanna see the 4 way as well, as I remember thinking the Claudio turn sounded awesome.

    Surprised that more of the Danielson vs Black matche's didn't make the list as I remember seeing great reports after each match up. The lack of Danielson in general surprises me actually.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    I'm sorry, are they alleging that Adam Pearce and Brent Albright almost had a 5 star match?
    Yeah I'd need to see that to believe it......

  13. #213
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    I saw that PWTorch list on the ROH forums. Terrible. Nigel/Generico and Briscoes/LAX at ****1/4 is madness.

    Lem, I'd have a look a the Indy Thoughts thread from DVDVR, because you get some actual insight into why a match was good and why another wasn't, and seeing as you're familiar with DVDVR, you're probably aware of whose opinions you tend to agree with and whose you don't.

    http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/i...howtopic=47085

    I also quite like 411Mania since they tend to be a good balance between the ROH Message Board/"ONE THING THAT MAKES A GOOD MATCH IS THE VARIETY OF MOVES USED" (I read that on the ROH board earlier sbasbiabsdiwdeiqud )/Keller/Caldwell types and the Schneider/DVDVR/Smarkschoice/Finlay vs. Palumbo was MOTY! types.

    J.D. Dunn is my favourite reviewer on there, but I don't think he's done a comprehensive ROH list, but if you click here:
    http://www.411mania.com/author/?author=421

    There should be a number of ROH reviews from the latter part of the year.

    Here Larry Csonka, who can be quite annoying but isn't too bad, did a top 10 ROH matches on PPV list...
    http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/co...es-of-2008.htm

    Like you I am currently looking around trying to "do" 2008 in ROH as it were; download notable matches and find out what's hot and what's not etc. So that I can be fully prepared for the new year.

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    Also, from what I've heard, Mori/Danielson at Final Battle sounds like the best thing ever.

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    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    What I'm wondering basically is what ROH matche's actually stand out from this year and are worth a watch?
    From May on as I think you've got everything that's good from before that.

    Southern Navigation: Black vs. Danielson, NRC vs. NOAH
    A New Level: Steenerico vs. NRC, Danielson vs. Marufuji
    Up for Grabs: meh
    Respect is Earned II: Stevens vs. Strong, Aries/Danielson vs. Jacobs/Black
    Battle for Supremacy: Double meh
    Vendetta II: Claudio vs. Danielson, Nigel vs. Lynn, Aries vs. Jacobs
    Northern Navigation: Claudio vs. Danielson, Roddy vs. Maru
    New Horizons: Black vs. Danielson
    Fueling the Fire: Aries/Danielson vs. MCMG, Go/Maru vs. Jacobs/Black
    Death Before Dishonor 6: Pearce vs. Albright, Steenerico vs. MCMG, Go vs. Maru, Danielson vs. Black vs. Claudio vs. Nigel
    Age of Insanity: meh
    Night of the Butcher II: Jacobs vs. Necro
    Battle of the Best: Danielson vs. Nigel (clipped)
    The Tokyo Summit: Roddy vs. Sasaki, KENTA/Ibushi vs. Maru/Nakajima, Kanemaru vs. Danielson
    Driven: Lynn vs. Hero, Go vs. Claudio vs. Danielson, Roddy vs. Nigel, Steenerico vs. Jacobs/Black
    Glory By Honor 7: Danielson vs. Nakajima, Generico vs. Nigel, Steel Cage Warfare
    Return of the 187: Tag team ironman
    Ring of Homicide 2: Aries vs. Jacobs I, Tyler vs. Lynn, LAX vs. Briscoes
    The French Connection: Davey vs. Roddy
    Bound by Hate: Aries vs. Jacobs II, Danielson vs. Black vs. Omega

    Shows in bold I should be able to get you stuff from.

    Added matches for Vendetta II, The French Connection and Bound by Hate.
    Last edited by chotliwala; December 30th, 2008 at 11:07 PM.

  16. #216
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Yeah I'd need to see that to believe it......
    It actually lives up to the hype. Way fucking better than you would think. Has to be the best match of Pearce's life.

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    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    I saw that PWTorch list on the ROH forums. Terrible. Nigel/Generico and Briscoes/LAX at ****1/4 is madness.

    Lem, I'd have a look a the Indy Thoughts thread from DVDVR, because you get some actual insight into why a match was good and why another wasn't, and seeing as you're familiar with DVDVR, you're probably aware of whose opinions you tend to agree with and whose you don't.

    http://board.deathvalleydriver.com/i...howtopic=47085

    I also quite like 411Mania since they tend to be a good balance between the ROH Message Board/"ONE THING THAT MAKES A GOOD MATCH IS THE VARIETY OF MOVES USED" (I read that on the ROH board earlier sbasbiabsdiwdeiqud )/Keller/Caldwell types and the Schneider/DVDVR/Smarkschoice/Finlay vs. Palumbo was MOTY! types.

    J.D. Dunn is my favourite reviewer on there, but I don't think he's done a comprehensive ROH list, but if you click here:
    http://www.411mania.com/author/?author=421

    There should be a number of ROH reviews from the latter part of the year.

    Here Larry Csonka, who can be quite annoying but isn't too bad, did a top 10 ROH matches on PPV list...
    http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/co...es-of-2008.htm

    Like you I am currently looking around trying to "do" 2008 in ROH as it were; download notable matches and find out what's hot and what's not etc. So that I can be fully prepared for the new year.
    Cheers

    I'll check through some of those when I have a little more time during the day tomorrow.

    One thing I will say though, I haven't been on DVDR too mcuh as of late, but was browsing briefly the other day, and fucking hell did I HATE some of the pretentious shit and damn right awful opinions in the WWE 2008 thread. People claiming Michaels was shit in the Jericho feud while also saying all of their matche's dissapointed was just sheer insanity.

    I seriosuly hope the Indy thread is a step up from that sack of shit.

    Also Chot, thanks for that list, and I appreciate you linking the matche's you've already upped

    I'll make a list tomorrow of the matche's I want to and will try to watch.

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    Awesome chot, thanks for the matches.

    Cactus - I would recommend Aries/Jacobs and Danielson/Claudio from Vendetta II since I was there live and they were both really good.

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    So I've been looking for an old CM punk promo, it's from during the raven feud, punk is in the back and he talks about his dad and why he hates raven, very emotional promo and pretty amazing as well.

    Anyone know where I could find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    Northern Navigation: Claudio vs. Danielson
    Fueling the Fire: Aries/Danielson vs. MCMG

    Shows in bold I should be able to get you stuff from.
    If you could manage to get these two matches, that would be awesome.

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    I'll do my best.

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    Thank you. No rush, when ever you get a chance.

    I think I'll be ordering 2 DVDs since its 35% off right now. I'm looking at Bound by Hate and Escalation if I do.
    Last edited by blackening; December 30th, 2008 at 10:26 PM.

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    I really wanna see that Joe/Black match if only for the production aspect but I haven't been able to find it online anywhere yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freak View Post
    So I've been looking for an old CM punk promo, it's from during the raven feud, punk is in the back and he talks about his dad and why he hates raven, very emotional promo and pretty amazing as well.

    Anyone know where I could find it.
    http://www.gamespot.com/users/sephy3...MxlmD-5bkEszfb

    I keep this shit bookmarked.

    "This is true. This is real. THIS IS STRAIGHT EDGE!".

    Punk with a character = amazing.
    Last edited by Hero!; December 30th, 2008 at 10:56 PM.

  25. #225
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    Punk has a character. Just not as deep as that one.

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    I want that Punk though. That Punk vs Jeffrey Hardy could be so amazing.

    Oh well, any punk is better than no Punk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    It actually lives up to the hype. Way fucking better than you would think. Has to be the best match of Pearce's life.
    It is so not up to the hype; I saw that match with some moderately high hopes, thinking that finally, the Albirght of OVW that I knew and loved was coming back. Nope, not the least. The match isn't BAD, but...well, here's the review of a like-minded yet more eloquant individual:

    Match #4: Adam Pearce [c] w/ Sweeney, Hagadorn, and Death Ray vs. brent albright [NWA Heavyweight Championship]
    Fuck my life. Watching Albright run out pissed off in the gimp gear is unintentionally hilarious, and really just terrible. Pearce yelling at the crowd feels incredibly rehearsed to me. I remember them wanting to kill each other in June, and they start with wrestling. Usually, when A GODDAMNED FIREBALL IS THROWN, a feud doesn't do chain wrestling anymore. This was worked as some weird hybrid of an old NWA Title match and current ROH style, with Pearce playing Flair (and failing miserably), and Albright playing "Hawk/Animal/Sting/Luger/Nikita/power guy", except that I don't care about him, so I have no reason to root for him. As a matter of fact, I hate both guys. Pearce goes stuff and works over a cut with stuff on the floor to bridge to ROH style. SNSI interference FINALLY getting stopped was a great bit. The minor knee work felt retarded and PEarce doing the Figure Four felt like ROH saying "FLAIR DID THAT MOVE AND HE WAS NWA CHAMPION. THAT BELT IS IN ROH, SO WE MUST BE AWESOME NOW." I also totally dont buy Pearce kicking out of TWO Half Nelson Suplexes. Albright doing the multiple Germans is fuckiing blasphemy. Near the end, Albright used a FUCKING SUNSET FLIP FROM THE TOP! YOU ARE A GODDAMNED BIG MAN HERE. WRESTLE LIKE ONE, YOU TALENTLESS FUCK.

    I get how this would have been super fun live, and if I gave a shit about either man, I might care about this. As it is, Albright is a terrible wrestler, and I don't have any reason to like him. The mixing of the NWA and ROH styles totally bombed, as they forgot the hybrid, and just turned into ROH style ten million nearfalls at the end without remembering the NWA style they started with. If you want to see that done correctly, watch CM Punk vs. James Gibson from ROH Fate of an Angel in 2005. The difference between that and this is that those two were among the best heels and faces ROH ever had, and Albright and Pearce are among the worst. Albright is still a TERRIBLE wrestler, but at this point, it's all smoke and mirrors.

    Also, about this Tyler Black becoming next big thing in ROH (BUW-HAHAHAHA) one only needs to see my critique on Tyler Black a few pages back to get what I think, but I will say this: if I went into wrestling, and then starting aping AJ Styles to a sizeable AJ Styles-starved fan-base, I'd probably get mad love too.

  28. #228
    Titty Master Jordo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero! View Post
    I want that Punk though. That Punk vs Jeffrey Hardy could be so amazing.

    Oh well, any punk is better than no Punk.

    Christ that's awesome, love that promo it's amazing, I would love if he heads that way in WWE sometime, Punk/Hardy could be great but we will never see it, in the Raven/Punk feud Punk being the heel is what made it, WWE couldn't do it that way would be a PR nightmare.

    Heel Punk is fucking amazing if I ever hear him do the I'm better than you character in WWE my head may in fact explode.

    Punk/Sandman would have worked better, or Punk/Austin both with punk as the heel. Punk/Austin may be a dream feud we will never see
    Last edited by Jordo; December 31st, 2008 at 1:23 AM.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by DDT View Post
    Also, about this Tyler Black becoming next big thing in ROH (BUW-HAHAHAHA) one only needs to see my critique on Tyler Black a few pages back to get what I think, but I will say this: if I went into wrestling, and then starting aping AJ Styles to a sizeable AJ Styles-starved fan-base, I'd probably get mad love too.


    Absolutely.

  30. #230
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    Black vs. Danielson,
    Claudio vs. Danielson
    Aries vs. Jacobs
    Claudio vs. Danielson
    Black vs. Danielson
    Aries/Danielson vs. MCMG
    Pearce vs. Albright,
    Steenerico vs. MCMG,
    Danielson vs. Black vs. Claudio vs. Nigel
    Danielson vs. Nigel
    Steenerico vs. Jacobs/Black
    Aries vs. Jacobs I
    Aries vs. Jacobs II

    Those are the ROH matche's from this year that I'm going to try giving a watch. If cho hasn't already uploaded any of those and someone has links or is willing to upload then please do.

    I also remember the recent Chicago show having a McGuinnes vs Danielson match, but I haven't read much about it. Surley that's got to be worth a watch?

    Anyway, I got around to watching Supercard of Homor II today, all I can say was that being there live, it was waaaaay better. Fine show, but a bit of a dissapoitment, I remember it being better.

    I'm not getting all the love for the Steen/Generico vs Shingo/BB Hulk match from the show, it was good for a display of impressive moves and reversals, but some of the selling is totally off, there are far to many kick out's out of HUGE moves, and the match seem's to go a little too long to me. The problem was with all of the kick outs and 2.9 counts, was what really was the point? Doesn't having a load of them in this match cheapen the impact of the counts in the McGuinnes vs Aries match and the 6 man main event? Maybe I'm being picky, but I thought the match, while fun got ridiculously stupid at times.

    McGuinnes vs Aries was also nowhere near as good as I remember it being. Took a while to get going, and got better as it went on, but no way do I think it's the MOTYC it's being touted as.

  31. #231
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    The Chicago match you're talking about is a PPV match (Rising Above) which comes out Jan 16.

    It seems the fan who was sending stuff to the DOI and other sites made up his story and picture. Full credit to the posters on the CZWFans.com message board for browsing through many pages of a google search to find the original black eye picture. I gotta be honest, I dropped the ball on this one, as I have alot of stuff going on that doesn't include covering/reporting on shows featuring men rolling around in their underwear. I just didn't research the story at all and just thought it was entertaining, which is why most fans come to the DOI anyway.
    http://www.declarationofindependents...apalj1231.html

    That picture was a fake

  32. #232
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    What were all the DVDVR people going on about then!? Maybe they looked reasonably similar.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Black vs. Danielson,
    Claudio vs. Danielson
    Aries vs. Jacobs
    Claudio vs. Danielson
    Black vs. Danielson
    Aries/Danielson vs. MCMG
    Pearce vs. Albright,
    Steenerico vs. MCMG,
    Danielson vs. Black vs. Claudio vs. Nigel
    Danielson vs. Nigel
    Steenerico vs. Jacobs/Black
    Aries vs. Jacobs I
    Aries vs. Jacobs II
    If you manage to find any of these matches then I'd appreciate it if you can upload them, and likewise I will do the same as I find them.

    Has chot sent you Steenerico/AOTF? I've got it if you want it uploaded.

    I may have a couple of others from that list actually.

  34. #234
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Haha Ringo check up like five posts.

    Lem I'll try to get that Aries/Danielson vs. Guns tag. I'm no dice on the DBD6 matches, but if you let me know which shows the first few are from then I can try.

  35. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    Haha Ringo check up like five posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh


    Absolutely.
    ???

  36. #236
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    I said "like" five posts. Not exactly five posts. Was referring to this post where I gave Lem all the matches I gave you (and a few more because I like him better).

  37. #237
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    What was confusing about my post, mate?

  38. #238
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    What? Nothing.

  39. #239
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    Oh yeah QUESTION!

    I keep hearing how shit Ruckus is and what a pointless waste of space he supposedly is. Why is this and if he's so shit why would they have decided to sign him in the first place?

  40. #240
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    Because he does a lot of flips and somersaults and MOVEZ!!!~! and Gabe is/was a total move-set mark. Also, he was to be the first recruit of Jack Evans' flippy-flippy brigade.

  41. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Oh yeah QUESTION!

    I keep hearing how shit Ruckus is and what a pointless waste of space he supposedly is. Why is this and if he's so shit why would they have decided to sign him in the first place?
    I quite like Ruckus. Probably the only guy, besides Generico and Danielson, that I'd bother watching anything related to ROH for.

  42. #242
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    How can anybody not like Jimmy Jacobs? He's literally amazing. And Chris Hero for that matter.

    And what about the likes of The Briscoes, Aries etc. Right up your street they are.

  43. #243
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    I got bored of the briscoes and I've never had an interest in any of those other guys.

  44. #244
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    You should see more Chris Hero then. The Briscoes are gay.

    Also I found this wicked awesome feud highlight vid on youtube of the Human Tornado/Chris Hero feud. it's EPIC. I wish WWE would use music like this in their video packages

    [ame]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1uEItmSP2mg[/ame]
    Last edited by Ringo; January 1st, 2009 at 7:46 PM.

  45. #245
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    Human Tornado is awesome. Is he still in ROH?

  46. #246
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    Nah, he recently fucked up his knee big time and tore his ACL. So he'll be out for over a year. I believe he wrestled the Cage match with Hero with the injury, which is part of the reason I'm so desperate to see it since it is supposed to be brilliant.

  47. #247
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    Please, call him Chris. There's only one Hero around here.

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Oh yeah QUESTION!

    I keep hearing how shit Ruckus is and what a pointless waste of space he supposedly is. Why is this and if he's so shit why would they have decided to sign him in the first place?
    The problem is less with Ruckus and more with stable warfare. Jack was involved in it from February 07 (shit that seems real long ago) and kept saying he was gonna make his own crew but he didn't until August 07 at Manhattan Mayhem II when Ruckus debuted. Jigsaw came along later and along with Julius Smokes they were the Vulture Squad. The pure babyface faction that did cool flippy moves. And like, I know it's all movez~! and shit, but fuck if I wasn't entertained by them live.

    Anyways throughout faction warfare the Briscoes held the tag titles all the way from Mania weekend through Final Battle where they lost them to AOTF. AOTF lost them to NRC in January who lost them to the Briscoes in April 2008 for no real reason. So the Vulture Squad wasn't allowed to look strong at all. They got a couple tag title shots against the NRC and looked decent and did beat the Briscoes but just were never able to build momentum. There was a storyline that at the 6th Anniversary Show Smokes wanted Jigsaw to unmask if they lost but after the match Jigsaw just went to the back but he unmasked on a videowire. Even more anticlimactic then it reads. Trios Tournament 2007 got canceled as well due to snow and shit and I always thought that the Vulture Squad would do well in that. And probably the biggest issue was that they always got injured. Jack broke his face in Mexico or Japan or something and Ruckus like nearly died of pneumonia or something leaving just Jigsaw as Smokes was MIA for a long time as well. The tag team of Jack/Ruckus probably clicked better but Jack was never around so they went with Ruckus/Jigsaw which ended up being decent but the stable just didn't have any build or momentum of any sort behind it so it was obvious that they were JTTS.

    Ruckus got a title shot by winning the Honor Rumble in Detroit. Sound stupid but it was for a title shot in Manassas which is pretty much his home crowd and he was pretty over.

    So yeah as for your actual question, I think he's decent in like four corner survivals and six man mayhems and other scramble like matches, but he's got no real character. They had a chance when they brought in Kingston and Sabian and Joker for a BLK OUT invasion sort of but Kingston disappeared eventually and it was dropped.

    I think there's an answer in there somewhere

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Nah, he recently fucked up his knee big time and tore his ACL. So he'll be out for over a year. I believe he wrestled the Cage match with Hero with the injury, which is part of the reason I'm so desperate to see it since it is supposed to be brilliant.
    Fucking amazing, anytime I hear about someone doing anything with a torn acl it blows my mind. From experience I had a hard time walking after I tore mine. Much less leaping around wrestling

  51. #251
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    So are The Briscoes not good now? Because they were pretty awesome when I was still watching.

    I might try to watch some of those matches Chot posted and see if I can get back into ROH, but I tend to only get invested when I can watch shows in order, all the way through. And I don't really have time to do that with another wrestling promotion at the moment.

  52. #252
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    They're still just as good as ever, but they haven't had anyone to wrestle regularly that complemented them in a long, long time.

  53. #253
    abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxy chotliwala's Avatar
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    Yeah they've just gotten a bit stale it seems. Their last tag reign was silly as they already knew that Mark had a serious wrist injury and would have to miss some time. And in the past few months they've toned down their style and gone less with the jumpy stuff and more ground and pound. The tag scene in ROH is just a bit lacking right now in general.

  54. #254
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    And Mark is out yet again with an injury.

  55. #255
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    Oh, big shocker there.

  56. #256
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    The Briscoes are still just as solid as they've always been. Still somewhat formualic though.

  57. #257
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    Rising Above teaser with the new cameras they're using for all the shows now.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhHnDD7DAkI[/ame]

  58. #258
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    Looks pretty awesome I reckon, will definitely enhance overall enjoyment of the product. Everything's lighter, clearer and you can see certain things better like the fans, for one. Lovely stuff.

  59. #259
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    Thank god they're spending money on the production of the product.

  60. #260
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    Definitely a huge, huge step in the right direction.

    I know i'm pretty down on Ring of Honor these days, but seriously, with that small change, I am already 10 times more interested in watching the shows.

    Now if they fix the sound problem so I can actually understand and hear the music and live promos, and they'll be all set.

  61. #261
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    The cameras used at Rising Above were the DISH Network ones, but they bought some of their own and apparently they only cost $13,000 which makes me wonder why the fuck they didn't get them earlier. It's a large expense but they've been able to go to England and Japan twice each.

  62. #262
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    I am seriously in love with how bright and crisp the product looks now.

    This gives them some good momentum. I hope they can put on some shows worth seeing in this great new format.

  63. #263
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    I thought that video looked awesome. Love the camera quality and angles during the McGuinness/Danielson match.

    Can't wait to watch the PPV next week.

  64. #264
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    --HDNet sent ROH a proposal for a one hour weekly show yesterday which would be the first bona fide TV offer the promotion has received. We'll have more if or when the deal is accepted.

    Source

    Intriguing. I don't even know if I get HDNet so I'd download any hypothetical show. Wonder what the format would be.

  65. #265
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    Yeah just saw that, very interesting. DO IT ROH DO IT. That, and the new cameras would be lovely. And then maybe LIVE PPVs?


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    Wow those new cameras look fantastic. Once Nigel drops the belt I may get back into this.

    Especially if Looooooooooooooooondon returns!

  67. #267
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    Speaking of London...

    January 8th: Another phone call came into the ROH Offices yesterday from the same person that called before about returning to “where it all began”.

    It could be Low Ki, since Gabe is gone. Or Amazing Red. But I'm thinking it's London.
    Last edited by blackening; January 8th, 2009 at 9:52 PM.

  68. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero! View Post
    Wow those new cameras look fantastic. Once Nigel drops the belt I may get back into this.

    Especially if Looooooooooooooooondon returns!
    Why not a Nigel fan?

  69. #269
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    At this point, people are giving Nigel the 'CM Punk treatment'; either they really, REALLY love Nigel(me), or they really, REALLY hate him(Hero!).

    But yeah, I doubt it's Ki; fucker's turned his back on just about every promotion in America sans WWE, and I doubt that Gabe was the only person Ki pissed off in ROH.

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    I think I'm in between. I don't love him or hate him. He has great matches, but he running out of guys to wrestle I think.

  71. #271
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    I don't love him or anything, from a character standpoint I can see why some may not be into him, but you'd have to be a bit of a numpty to not see how good a heel he is.

  72. #272
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    NIGEL IS FANTASTIC AND I'LL HAVE NONE OF THIS NON NIGEL LOVING WHILE I'M HERE.

  73. #273
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    I am completely uninspired by Nigel in every way.

    Fine worker, good heel.

    Bores me to tears.

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    I obviously beg to differ.

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x61...vigation_sport

    What the hell does Dailymotion not embed still?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    I am completely uninspired by Nigel in every way.

    Fine worker, good heel.

    Bores me to tears.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    NIGEL IS FANTASTIC AND I'LL HAVE NONE OF THIS NON NIGEL LOVING WHILE I'M HERE.
    Calm down friend.

    Not everyone has a picture of themselves standing behind a shirtless Nigel.

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    Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan not behind but rather in the Tower of London.

  78. #278
    Manure Cactus Lem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post

    Now if they fix the sound problem so I can actually understand and hear the music and live promos, and they'll be all set.
    Talk about out of touch, that's like a 2 or 3 year old critcism, they've had fine sound on live promos for ages now. It really has been that long since you've properly watched the promotion hasn't it?

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    Cewsh has had ENOUGH of Xavier as ROH World Champ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Talk about out of touch, that's like a 2 or 3 year old critcism, they've had fine sound on live promos for ages now. It really has been that long since you've properly watched the promotion hasn't it?
    I'm pretty sure that I reviewed Southern Navigation from this very year, and there's evidence in this very forum to back that up.

    Aside from that, i've actually seen 5 or 6 shows this past year which, while not being definitive, still gives me the idea that that the sound quality is not where it should be.

    "Fine" is relative I guess, because to me it stills just sounds bad, drowned out by background noise, and unprofessional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ringo View Post
    Cewsh has had ENOUGH of Xavier as ROH World Champ.
    I liked him as champ, actually.

    I wasn't sure WHY he was champ, but I enjoyed his title reign.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgecutioner View Post
    I'm pretty sure that I reviewed Southern Navigation from this very year, and there's evidence in this very forum to back that up.

    Aside from that, i've actually seen 5 or 6 shows this past year which, while not being definitive, still gives me the idea that that the sound quality is not where it should be.

    "Fine" is relative I guess, because to me it stills just sounds bad, drowned out by background noise, and unprofessional.
    Motherfucker it was Fueling the Fire

    The sound has been an issue at times though it was not as big a problem as the camera work. I think the second half of the Aries/Jacobs match at Vendetta II was nigh unwatchable. Really fucking bad camera work.

  83. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by chotliwala View Post
    Motherfucker it was Fueling the Fire

    The sound has been an issue at times though it was not as big a problem as the camera work. I think the second half of the Aries/Jacobs match at Vendetta II was nigh unwatchable. Really fucking bad camera work.


    That's how forgettable it was.

    I agree that the camera work was the real problem holding them back (that and other things) and i'm not even saying that the sound thing is a huge deal because they simply aren't a promo based company and they do just fine with backstage stuff.

    However, all I said originally was that now that the camera work and quality are better, all they have left to improve is the sound. Not unreasonable I think.

  84. #284
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    RING OF HONOR-HD NET UPDATE
    by Mike Johnson @ 10:16 AM on 1/9/2009

    The Wrestling Observer reported yesterday that HD Net had sent Ring of Honor an offer for the HD cable network to host a one hour ROH series this week.

    PWInsider.com has confirmed with network sources that report is accurate. The proposed series would have a Saturday night timeslot. It is believed HD Net would handle the production costs of the series.

    ROH sources would not comment on the proposed series and one source was upset that the proposed deal had leaked, noting it was something that "if it happens, it was company's right to announce, not the Internet's."

    I think they should be more upset that it got leaked and not that it was leaked, if that makes sense. And I'm surprised HDNet would handle production costs.

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    HDnet is in need of original programming. It wouldn't be a huge surprise for it to be somewhat of a joint venture, especially with how well wrestling has historically done on television.

    Also, it amuses me how the Observer reports something, and then PWInsider.com which is LESS CREDIBLE, confirms it.

    Barack Obama told me that the Oval Office smelled like cheese, but it must be true, because a maid who cleaned the toliets on the other side of the house also said that.

  86. #286
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    I just hope they don't give it a Tuesday 3AM slot or anything.
    Saturday afternoon/evening or Wed. evening would probably do ok for it, since there wouldn't be too much other wrestling programming to challenge it. The ratings wouldn't be remotely spectcular or anything though, so I hope they're not expecting too much from it.

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    There was another update somewhere that said they were looking at a Saturday night timeslot. Perhaps something like the original SNME. Either way it would be replayed many times as that's apparently the way HDNet operates.

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    Does anyone have a written history of the ROH vs CZW feud?

    I'm trying to remind myself of some of the occurances but a lot of it isn't coming to me....

  89. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Does anyone have a written history of the ROH vs CZW feud?

    I'm trying to remind myself of some of the occurances but a lot of it isn't coming to me....
    Vice did a video of it that was excellent. I think it was Vice. It was when I just started posting. One of the reasons, actually.
    Last edited by The Ricochet; January 13th, 2009 at 8:53 PM.

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    It was Vice.

    Mark is going to be out 4-6 months.

    Rhett Titus vs. American Dragon on 1/30. Nice.

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    Why's Mark Briscoe out?

  92. #292
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    Knee injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Does anyone have a written history of the ROH vs CZW feud?

    I'm trying to remind myself of some of the occurances but a lot of it isn't coming to me....
    Here's what someone sent me when I was first getting into ROH. I only included the bits with CZW so hopefully it still makes sense.


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    Cheers, I'll read through that later

    I'd also Rep you if I could.

  94. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackening View Post
    It was Vice.

    Mark is going to be out 4-6 months.

    Rhett Titus vs. American Dragon on 1/30. Nice.
    Ahahaha, yus!

    Titus for World Champion.

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cactus Lem View Post
    Why's Mark Briscoe out?
    knee surgery.

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    Mark Briscoe needs to take it easy before Amazing Red's career

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    ...recovers? Becomes ice cream truck driver? Is actually remembered?

  98. #298
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    I'm pretty sure he meant to include a "become's like" somewhere in there....could be wrong though.

    Seriously people, finish your damn sentences before hitting the post button.

  99. #299
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    An inauspicious return for the Rajah legend.

  100. #300
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    Just watched the Age of the Fall vs Sten/Generico, gotta say hell of a match, most I've enjoyed anything ROH wise in quite a while.

    I can't remember if I mentioned it, but I finally finished watching Supercard of Honor a couple of weeks back. Would have thought I'd have finished it earlier considering I was at the show, and live loved it to bits. Got to say watching it back it didn't transfer as well, it was fun but not as amazing I thought it was at the time.

    I was very dissapoitned in how much I didn't enjoy Nigel McGuinnes vs Austin Aries. I loved this live, but was actually kind of bored watching it back.

    I also remember loving Steen/Generico vs Shingo/BB Hulk, but fuck me was that overbooked in a stupid way. Far to many huge near falls for my liking, El Generico kicking out of a Death Valley Driver from the top rope really did take the piss. The problem with the match for my liking is that it's just a tag match with nothing in the line. Two guys have come in for the weekend to wrestle, yeah fair enough make them look good while making your own guys look even better, but surley there are less cheap ways of achieving this? For me all the near falls out of huge moves kind of cheapens the effect of matche's that are actually worth something. This was a random match with absolutley nothing on the line, so really what was the need?

    After watching Steenerico vs AOTF in which there are plenty of near falls, it makes me dislike the Steenerico vs Shingo/BB Hulk match even more. Completley understandable to have lots of big near falls in a big title match because it makes sense that everyone would be throwing everything at each other, and with the belts on the line people are going to be massivley into it as they where here. But why in some random match? More than anything I think that's what puts me off ROH, overkill, and going a step to far almost all the time when there is absolutley no need to.

    Anyway props to the Steenerico vs AOTF match as it was constructed incredibly well. Some huge moments in there that had me on the edge of my seat, and the whole Sharpshooter spot was worked incredibly well.

    I'd say it's my second favourite ROH match this year after McGuinnes vs Tyler Black from Take No Prisoners.

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