You know we haven't been knocked out at group stage since 1999 right? Get your facts right arsehole.
To make an impact in Europe you would probably need £150-£200m, there is no way the Scottish tv deal will be able to finance that and gate receipts won't either. Great to complain about not smashing the top boys reguarly but its just not realistic to get European success whilst in SPL simple as that.
Celtic could spend £100m and may well not get out of their Champions League group. Alternatively they could take 20% off of their wagebill, win the league by 20 points and still not get out of their Champions League group. It is no surprise that Celtic want to play it safe.
There's no incentive for Celtic to have any ambition without a strong Rangers to compete against.
I wasn't referring to arsenal. I dont care or know what arsenal have done in the champions league and dont laud about like I do.
I'm not talking about making a MASSIVE IMPACT in Europe. One big result or getting to the last 16/last 8 would be all that the fans want. Fuck, getting INTO the group stages is seen as a good return. e're not deluded enough to think we can fucking win the thing, we just want to be in it, have those European nights back a couple of times a season and get those great moments like against Barca/AC Milan/Benfica/Man U to hark back on.
THAT is European success for us right now. The problem is that I don't (and Lennon by the looks of things doesnt either) think we even have a squad to get into the group stages right now and compete at a level with them.
I totally get that and know thats exactly what the board think but at the same time, without that ambition, attendances are falling at a silly rate and the seasons become very long and very boring.
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Yeah. Made huge waves in Europe....
I think even the most deluded or Arsenal fans would admit that they would rather beat the team regarded as the greatest footballing side in the world 2-1 on thier home patch, watching an 18 year old champions league debutant scoring the winner and all but securing your side continued champions league football and progression to the next round
than
beating hull in the F.A. Cup final.
Regardless, its not a dick measuring contest. Two very different teams with different objectives and incentives.
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Circumstances surrounding, size of achievement, ramifications, expectations etc. They put you out on the second leg. Again. Not having a dick measuring contest here. I'm just saying THAT is what making waves in Europe means to us. Not winning trophies but having those nights and we should be amitious enough to shoot for them.
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Isn't that the point thought Slare - that the limit of your expectations can only ever amount to the occasional big night in Europe?
If Lennon was genuinely surprised or upset that Celtic's owners weren't willing to bung loads of money into the club in search of greater success in Europe, he's a fool...the weakness of your domestic league makes it impossible to expand to a point where European success means anything more than a good result every couple of years against one of the European giants.
Like Beefy said, you could plough money into a project but where are the established top players who are going to want to sign for a club in Scotland? And where is the business sense in spending an absolute shitload that you can't afford just on the off-chance that it might give you one or two great nights at Celtic Park every couple of years? It's all well and good saying that it's about the enjoyment of the game but you have to weigh up the financial aspect and it is just not realistic to demand or even hope that the club would spend tens of millions trying to improve your European standing when that improvement would almost certainly be marginal and definitely wouldn't recoup any of the outlay.
Until Celtic (and presumably Rangers if it ever happens) move to England, there is a limit to what they can ever achieve in Europe - the infrastructure in the Scottish league is such that right now even the top clubs can only ever be feeder clubs for the Premier League. Without a complete, long-term overhaul of the Scottish league, somehow making it a more competitive, more interesting and more marketable league with a better standard of football, there is a limit to what any Scottish club can expect to achieve.
Last edited by Simon; May 23rd, 2014 at 10:23 AM.
Couple of points;
- Our squad at the moment is the weakest it has been in quite a while. Lennon isn't asking to completely break the bank, he's looking for a few established players on the big stage/a bit of money to be spent to AT LEAST get us into the group stages of the Champions League. I severely doubt that the squad we have now will get us through three qualifying rounds. We're not talking hundreds of millions here, we are talking a proportion of the (I think) £20 odd million PROFIT that the club made in the last year.
- All we hear right now is how good of a financial position the team are in and how much money we have made. The fans, quite understandably, want to see that being plowed into the squad and into a bit of futher ambition. What is a club without ambition? What is the point if we don't want to do better and get further in the competition each year?
The main point is that we DO have the money and we DO have the infrastructure to make some moves in the market. There are two types of 'big' player Celtic can lure. Young and extremely talented players who are looking to get in the premier league shop window, or previously established players (Bellamy, Keane etc) winding down but still looking to play at a decent level. But even those cost money that the board are seemingly not willing to spend.
This years European campaign was a bit of a washout, and the season was damp. Attendances were fucking shocking and the dozen or so games I went to were fairly crap. That, along with disputes between fan groups and the board made it a bit of a shit season really. We need a wee European run or one of those big results against a giant to keep people coming, to keep people buying tickets, to keep that Parkhead Atmosphere ticking over and to ensure there is at least some sort of draw to come to Celtic.
You lack ambition, all of that drops and the Scottish game becomes even more shit and boring. An astonishing prospect.
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I couldnt agree with Simon more
You need to move leagues - until then this is the pinnacle of what Celtic can achieve, sorry to break it to you.
Uh huh, and the point im making is that we won't even be able to reach the point we have in the last 4/5 years with the current squad we have, hence the need to show ambition and spend money.
I'm not asking for MORE, we need this ambition/money to reach the group stages/last 16 and dream of last 8.
We lacked it this season and didnt have that. It showed. Lennon walked.
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SLARE is right. We were lucky to qualify last season and ended up getting found out in the group stages after doing so well the year before. We were a noticeably weaker team because we sold our 2 best outfield players and never made any attempt to bring in replacements. We're not asking for the galacticos but we can afford to replace the players we sell. We're Celtic for fucksake, not some shitty wee club from London that's never even won a European cup.