I don't see what is so good about Loftus-Cheek. He lumbers around the pitch like Huddlestone but doesn't have the ability on the ball or the intelligence to dictate play.`
I don't see what is so good about Loftus-Cheek. He lumbers around the pitch like Huddlestone but doesn't have the ability on the ball or the intelligence to dictate play.`
Which one would you vote for?
E or H for me.
Kagbo would run amok in Scotland.
I'd go E. Ex Barnet player too
I don't see the similarity much. Doesn't have the range of passing and is a lot busier to me.Originally Posted by Simon
Think he's a very good player and hope for his sake he makes a move soon
Scored 3 goals this season, all of them goal of the season contenders.
I will freely admit I haven't seen Loftus-Cheek more than once or twice but for as much as I hear about him, you would think he would have been able to carve out a place if he was as good as everyone said. You look at the way Dele or Rashford have forced their way in their teams at a very young age. Lampard left; Cesc has fallen off; they went and bought Kante. There was an opening in the midfield.
Think he might just be a bottom of the table type player. While Huddlestone might not play the same style, the level of quality seems accurate. Like Cleverly or Livermore before. Might be good enough for the England squad but not enough to win the league.
I don’t understand the Huddlestone comparison but Loftus-Cheek does have physical adjustments he needs to make into senior football, simply because youth football was a cakewalk for him due to his size. Like you, I hope he moves so he gets the opportunity to make those adjustments because I think he’s a classy player. Loftus-Cheek’s England midfield partner Dan Crowley has similar issues because he’s so small and has had a couple of very beneficial loan moves that appear to be helping him. I’m guessing Loftus-Cheek’s wages or Adidas deal are in the way of him getting the same loan opportunities and Conte just doesn’t seem to rate him.
I don’t think the Rashford situation is comparable. Rashford was an afterthought at Man Utd and, like many other players that year, only got an opportunity because of how many injuries they had and how poor their recruitment was. Other youngsters that performed well at Man U in the same circumstances have now gone, never to be seen again. I’m sure Cameron Borthwick-Jackson was described as world class by someone on here for example. That level of opportunity will never be available to Loftus-Cheek at Chelsea and is the same story for a dozen other youth players who could play Premier League football right now.
I only made the Huddlestone comparison in that he's a big lump who doesn't seem to be able to get around the pitch quickly enough.
The 'Rashford wasn't rated' thing is a fallacy apparently, I've read a few things from scouts at the club who have said they put that line of thought out when he first came through to try to calm the hype, but that he was very highly thought of at the club. I follow a respected United youth team journo on Twitter and he talked about Rashford a huge amount before he came through. Then again he also talked up Ashley Fletcher, who has done fuck all at West Ham.
I don’t think highly rated is that important because everyone is highly rated in the Utd youth system, dozens of players rated much higher than Rashford have gone for pennies or been released without ever seeing as much as a League Cup match. The truth of it is that Rashford had to wait for all of Man U’s strikers to get injured then Januzaj, Fellaini and Martial played up front but had to get injured before he got a chance. If Ashley Fletcher hadn’t been on loan then he would have got the opportunity ahead of him.
Rashford’s opportunity was very unique in a club like Man Utd. In comparison, Loftus-Cheek is the highest paid youth player ever with loads of endorsement deals, captained England youth teams in older age groups and has been destined for stardom.
I brought up Rashford and Dele because you could see their class even at a young age as soon as they made the first team (not because their paths or styles are similar). It is about making the best use of their opportunities. I have never seen that from Loftus-Cheek on the couple of times I saw him play.
Aye, gutted about this.Looks like Walker to City is going to happen
I don't suppose the unlikely event of City being pipped to 4th by Arsenal would make a difference either.
I heard that Alderweireld was stalling on a new deal also?
I've seen Rose and Dier being linked with moves as well, but probably the usual horseshit.
Really are the new arsenal lolz
I'd go A or F for the GOTS
Seems we're signing a left back from Shalke on a free which would lead you to believe that a) Wenger is staying and b) the structure isn't changing. I think we all knew this by now anyway. It looks like our usual late run of form when the pressure's off has come too late this season.
Rob Holding is a really exciting player, he looks to have huge huge potential. Strong in the air and in the tackle, good on the ball and looks to be an intelligent player too.
Interesting time for Spurs. The money it cost Arsenal to move stadiums obviously isn't as much of an issue these days because the TV money is so insane, but you'd expect it to have some impact. Given Spurs seemingly have a wage structure set so low compared to the big boys, it's hard to see the likes of United, City, Chelsea, Real and Barca not taking their best players. Project, manager, champions league...it's all irrelevant if someone is willing to double or triple your wages. Plus West Ham have struggled in a new stadium and we know Spurs have struggled so far at Wembley. Seems like there will need to be a huge change in the wages if Spurs want to stay top 4 - will Levy allow that alongside the stadium move?
The Wembley thing is a red herring. We have a bad record at Wembley but the majority of times in that record we have been playing against teams that are better than us. Monaco seemed like a bad result at the time, but looks better in retrospect now they've shown themselves to be a very good side. I'm not particularly worried about it.
The wage thing is a bigger problem. Eriksen is on £50k a week and outperforming players at other teams who are paid double our highest paid players...that isn't sustainable. But to overcome it would need a complete overhaul of our finances because the reality is the majority of our squad are arguably worth double what they're currently paid. I suspect that if Walker goes the money might be reinvested in bumping wages for a few key players rather than signing a replacement. Just as a rough example, a £40m fee would free up £150-160k a week in wages over five years - that could potentially allow us to double the wages of three important players and keep them happy for a while longer.
About Wembley, what kind of average attendance are Spurs expecting over there next season? I mean we know they usually pack WHL, hence the move to a bigger stadium, but we're now talking almost 3 times as many seats at Wembley. Will be interesting to see how the atmosphere is like.
Is double even enough though? When you've got Man United willing to pay Pogba a quarter mil a week and Imbrahimovic more, what are Kane and Alli worth to clubs like that? Seems like that's going to be a huge problem for Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool unless they completely rethink wage structures. I'd be concerned if I was a Spurs fan, especially given what some of the top teams need at the moment. City need full backs, Barca need an attacking mid, Chelsea probably need a striker, loads of people need a top defender. It's going to be hard work to avoid losing the spine of the team.
I think it was Rory Smith on 5Live who explained it well last week when he said that someone like Alderweireld holds all the power - he's arguably the best centre back in the league so will (rightly?) argue that he deserves pay parity with the best paid defenders in the league. That's probably at least doubling if not tripling his wages and if he doesn't get that he will probably look to move.
You don't have to worry about Madrid or Barca. Barca are having a tough time trying to afford Messi, Suarez and Neymar at the same time, and Madrid at this stage only look at the very best players in the world. City and United are the ones to worry about. With Chelsea I get the feeling that their silly spending can only continue as long as they can flog some of their players to China and PSG for crazy money. I can't picture them paying £60m and £250k a week for someone any more.
We don't have to worry about the elite few clubs that pay stupid money because with the exception of Alderweireld and maybe Eriksen none of our players fit the profile. They're not superstars. Alli, Kane, Rose, Walker, Llor is, Vertonghen, Dembele...for various reasons I don't see Madrid, Barca or Bayern wanting them. So we really only need to try to match the top English clubs. That would mean significantly increasing our wage structure for sure, but players like Pogba and Ibra are basically outside of the wage system that governs other players because their image is worth so much. Even Alli and Kane are unlikely to ever be those poster boy players like Rooney once was. I don't see City for example being willing to pay £250k a week for either of them because they have their own wage structures to worry about and paying them that sort of money means De Bruyne, Aguero, Silva and the rest will want parity.
Basically what it boils down to is none of our star players would be the star players if they went to City or Chelsea, and so wouldn't command the crazy wages of a Hazard or Aguero. I would hope that we would be able to match the sort of wages - at a guess maybe £150k a week? - that those clubs would be willing to pay them. It helps that two of the three biggest clubs are ones that Levy is extremely reluctant to do business with, hopefully that will convince him to pay our top payers what they want in order to fend off Chelsea and United.
And if not...we just have to trust that the deals are great and the money is invested well. We can be confident of the first bit...the second bit less so.
Last edited by Simon; May 16th, 2017 at 4:08 PM.
The club fought hard to get the full capacity (local residents wanted it capped at 60k I think) so presumably they expect to come close to filling it. It's been incredibly hard to get tickets the past few years which bodes well.
Great win for Arsenal tonight. Played us off the park. Best team I've seen all season. Glad they've given themselves a chance of getting yet another champions league finish, it would be incredible if they managed it. Wenger deserves a lot of credit for pulling them together the way he has.
Sad to see us offering so little resistance on our way down.
Pickford was unreal tonight. We had 40 odd shots and it seemed like he saved about half of them, loads of them absolutely top class too.
Hate seeing the commentators talk about how good local young lads are definitely going to go to a bigger club over the summer. It's almost like they have a vested interest in anyone decent playing for one of the top teams. I'm also sick of the suggestion that Defoe needs to go to West Ham or Crystal Palace, he could score fucking 20+ goals for Arsenal or Liverpool and possibly win them the league, why is he limited to another mediocre team?
Presumably you're talking about Pickford...it's unrealistic to think he might stay when he's so, so good already. He was brilliant again tonight.
I kind of get your point about Defoe but the problem is most top teams only play one striker to fit in as many of their creative midfielders as possible, and he isn't suited to that formation. He'll still score goals but the overall team would probably suffer, and in any case he probably wouldn't be a regular starter - in which case he would be better playing regularly at a smaller side IMO. Brighton play two up front and need a reliable goalscorer (Baldock runs and runs but is essentially crap) so that would be one option.
Defoe's never been good enough to play for a top team. A good run of form in his mid-30s for a crap team doesn't change that.
So we all are hoping for Arsenal Everton to go 1-1 and Liverpool Boro to go 0-2 right.
I mean, sure it won't happen. But if it did it'd be great.
That's massively underestimating his ability. He's the highest Premier League scorer never to have won the title and was top scorer for us the year we qualified for the CL.
Would be great if it happened
And you didn't shed any tears both times Spurs sold him, from what I recall, because it was clear that Spurs had moved on from his level.
I can't remember exactly but I doubt I was pushing him out the door - no one's saying he should be the starting striker for a top side, but he could definitely provide an option. If we played two up front I'd take him at Spurs as a back up.
But Mik isn't talking about a backup and it was his post that Andy replied to. Defoe isn't going to Arsenal or Liverpool as a backup and scoring 20 goals. He'd need to be starting to do that.
In the same way that Kevin Phillips and Darren Bent wouldn't have made it at a top club, neither would Defoe.
No top club would play to their strengths which is what they need. Every bottom feeding club would. That's why they score goals for them.
Andy Cole would probably fall into that category though, and he made a decent career for himself at the highest level. Different era obviously.
Yeah, it's strange how they can always put a run of results together at the end of the season against teams that are already on the beach, it's almost as if those sides don't have anything to play for. Just a shame he can't get them to win games when it actually matters, like losing to a West Bromwich side, with that being their only victory since the end of February. Or losing at home to a Watford side that have barely won since. Or away at Palace.
It's not worth getting too bothered about, as it's obvious he's not going anywhere, but nothing will be any different next year, except they might go further than the first knock out stage of a European competition when they're drawn against some Latvian plumbers in the Europa League.
Go support your local team and we'll take the tickets. We admire Arsene and the entertainment the team provides. We will also be positive and chant within the stadium and help be the 12th man that the team have needed for many years.
Nope.
He scored 34 in the Premier League for a club that finished 3rd and then went on to score 1 in 2 regularly for United alongside a number of partners.
True - but then Cole's record outside of good clubs in the PL was significantly worse (49 goals in 154 PL games). It's an impossible question to answer because it's purely hypothetical, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Defoe could have achieved similar success if he was playing at a top club. Cole showed that a limited all-round player with great finishing could be a huge success in the PL, and Defoe is along those lines. Considering how much of his career at Spurs was spent on the bench, his goalscoring record is really exceptional - according to Soccerbase, he has 198 goals in 535 league games in his career, 136 of which were sub appearances.
I thought you were a Villa fan?
Interesting that there were a lot of empty seats last.night.
Cole's record after he left United you mean? At the age of 31?
Phillips's record from the same age in the PL - 37 in 152.
Of course it's hypothetical but then again any such topic is. Defoe is not a very good footballer. He's a predatory finisher, but usually only the very top class ones who score the majority of their chances get to be at the top clubs. You'd have to question why Defoe was on the bench for so long at a frankly maybe-just-above-mediocre PL team like Spurs, if he was such a magnificent striker.
I am. I just don't have the time to travel to home games.
Yeah fair enough...I do think he was a victim of the trend towards playing one up front though - if more teams were playing two up front I'm sure he'd have got a chance at a top club at some point. Funnily enough he's had his best season in donkey's years (or ever?) this season playing on his own up front.
Defoe has been a decent PL striker, nothing more. He is.overrated because:-
A) He is english
B) There are very few good English forwards about these days.
158 goals. Sixth highest of all time in the PL, and there are a lot of players below him that are rated far higher...
What is his build up play like? His assist record? Can he play upfront on this own?
Fundamental qualities needed for a top forward these days. Michael Owen was a brilliant poacher, but he would struggle to start at a top club now as you need more than that.
You're right. He's close to 40 now, no chance.
Emile Heskey is the only striker in the history of the PL who has played more games in the PL than Defoe.
Strikers that are within 100 games of Defoe are Crouch, Davies, Rooney, Shearer, Cole, Yorke, Fowler and Sheringham. I doubt anyone would put Defoe in there ahead of any of this list apart from Crouch and Davies.
Last edited by The Rosk; May 17th, 2017 at 10:34 AM.
Lived his big poachy runs from the half way line with the ball at his feet that he done plenty.
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He scored a lot more in the box.
All strikers do.
Dazzler Darren is a true fox in the box, except that worldie against Wolves
Best LB & RB in Rose & Walker. What happened to Walker not staringb the last few months?
Months? He's been rotated with Trippier throughout the season as normal, it's only since the semi final that there has been any issue because the 'rotation' at that point saw Trippier start in the semi, plus the home games against Arsenal and United...at that point we can assume there was a problem but up until then he was starting all the important games.
He has played up front on his own all season. His build up play when he has had a striker alongside him has been fantastic. He's great at bringing other people into play. I've seen almost every one of his games over the last two seasons which is probably more than anyone else (maybe even more than Simon who has usually seen him in sub appearances), so it's a bit jarring seeing people talk so utterly confidently about stuff they are probably judging on old performances. As he has matured his game has matured. He isn't just a finisher, he's one of the best all round players I've ever seen at Sunderland (and in fairness, we might be shit, but we have had some good players). He's strong on the ball, he's smart, he is a good passer, he puts an absolute shift in (he's played left back at times for us and was the best player on the pitch). The idea that he can't fit into a certain style is more based on the fact that nobody has ever tried to. His 'best' years at Tottenham were mostly spent as a sub and like Simon pointed out he still out scored almost everyone else at Spurs in that context.
If it wasn't for our recent track record, I'd point out how mad Watford's owner is
Demari grey is pretty good you know. Shame musa hasn't played much i like him a lot.
Switching between this and playoffs. Dirty dive by hylton
Yeah Gray is class. I think he's one like Redmond that has been pigeonholed as a winger because he's quick (and black? Or is that too cynical?) when he's better suited playing narrow and making things happen creatively.
We've absolutely demolished Leicester here without half our first choice team. Very very good.
Gray is a great crosser though possibly better at that than redmond. He's great though is he going to the euros? Another top group of youth players I've said it before but being England under 21 manager must be one of the easiest jobs in football
Both play offs at 5-5.
Kane may have just ruined schmeichel's career by beating him like he did there twice. Looked like it was something he was aware of
Doubt Gray will go to the World Cup when there are so many attacking mids ahead of him but I'm sure he will be in the reckoning for the next Euros along with Winks, Davies, Abraham and maybe Palmer.
Presume sof meant the U21 Euros.
Ah maybe. I assumed it was just a slip saying Euros rather than WC. My point stands though I do think he'll be in line for a full cap soon.
Gray played up front quite a bit under Ranieri. He's excellent.
Good week to have Kane as my triple point wildcard in Fantasy.
Mourinho's saying 16 year old Angel Gomes could be involved in the game on Sunday.
He's supposed to be class. So many young kids coming through that are highly rated. Sancho, Foden, Oakley-Booth, Skipp, Brewster, Gomes...good stuff. Our u17s are in the final of the Euros this weekend.
Been following a bunch of his match highlights this season. He looks great for someone his age. He's a #10 but can easily picture him playing in midfield three. My only worry would be that he's still like a tiny little kid. I mean, he looks smaller than the other 16 year olds he normally plays alongside, let alone the senior players.
The kid has a bright future though, and I'd love to see him on that pitch on Sunday.
Just read that the final was today, and we just lost.
Apparently we were winning 2-1 until they equalised in the 6th minute of the 4 minutes of injury time that was supposed to be played, then lost on penalties.
Last edited by RuneEdge; May 19th, 2017 at 4:13 PM.
Damn fergie time.
Classic EnglandJust read that the final was today, and we just lost.
Apparently we were winning 2-1 until they equalised in the 6th minute of the 4 minutes of injury time that was supposed to be played, then lost on penalties.
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39981841
This would be a much bigger deal than getting rid of Wenger.
Anyone else as keen on an Ajax win on Wednesday as me? Mourinho can fuck right off, the boring troll.
I wouldn't be heartbroken, But I will pull for Utd.
I dislike the people who bitch and moan about Mourinho much more than I dislike the man himself. He reminds me of Bill Belichick and Greg Popovich. They just doesn't buy into the argument that the medias role is super important and so they must be deferred to and respected or that "tradition" must be maintained. Their job is to win games, not make friends.
Good journalists are incredibly valuable. But shitty journalists are more trouble than they are worth. Then they get upset with him because they are not good at their jobs.
That's all true, but ignores the wider point that he's a gigantic arsehole who plays awful, awful football.
C'mon now. His style is far from awful. He just prioritises "not losing" before "winning", which obviously people don't prefer to see. But whenever he gets a team working they way he wants, with the players he wants, he tends to allow his teams to play more attractive football.
I suppose this is easier to me to say after two years of LVG's philosophies, cuz that was awful.
He's a miserable sack of shit who seems to view his job of being a manager as an inconvenience that he'd rather not be doing.
Im sure the £10m a year he trousers consoles him.
Redmond and Gray stood out like beacons when coming through our youth system. Redmond in particular made an immediate impression, scoring a wonder goal in the Europe League on his debut.
Would not surprise me to see either of them in squad come Russia.
Some good points.
Chelsea with a mid match guard of honour.
I am fucking praying for it to stay like this. Wenger IN.
Wenger OUT
Really worrying times. No Champions League, awful ownership, power struggle between the manager and chief exec, fans divided. Sad.
Good luck trying to sell the new contract extension to the fans Arsene
Looks like Koscielny, Gabriel and Sanchez out of the cup final.
JT, What a fanny.
What does it matter when the FA Cup doesn't count to a club of Arsenal's world stature?
This has got to be like Christmas Day for Arsenal fans. I feel so happy for you guys
Not so much Christmas Day, more the confirmation of another predictable season which I called before the kick of a ball in August.
Lets see who gets more blame, Watford or Boro
Doesn't matter Chelsea will thrash them either way.
So apparently Moyes has said Sunderland agreed to kick the ball out in the 26th minute to allow for John Terry's ludicrous send off. Isn't that the definition of spot fixing? I imagine both could be in some serious hot water for this?
Fuck all difference in style between LVG and Mourinho, only difference is Mourinho implements it better. United games used to be the pinnacle of British football - dominant, swashbuckling stuff. The post-Ferguson era has been dreadful to watch regardless of whether it was under Moyes, LVG or Mourinho.
They fucking should be. I genuinely hope something terrible happens to John Terry. He's one of the biggest cunts in the universe, never mind the shit-filled toilet that is the world of football.
United have been absolutely dreadful to watch this season, definitely more than I can ever remember under Moyes or LVG. Most expensive squad of all time finishing sixth, Mourinho doesn't get nearly enough criticism for both the bollocks football and underachievement.
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