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Thread: ***Official*** English Football Discussion Thread

  1. #108501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Why would Liverpool fans care about Villa doing badly? (apart from you obviously, who still carries a grudge from 10+ years ago).

    Anyhow, Villa still put SEVEN past youse lot
    What’s that? Can’t hear you from all the way up here in 1st place dude.

  2. #108502
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    You say this like it ends the argument. It doesn't. Fans don't expect to be treated like customers, and certainly don't expect to be treated like fans when it comes to the club asking for loyalty, then customers when it comes to paying shitloads more money.
    They might not expect it but it is what happens across all industries. People expect a lot of things they are not going to ever get and have no right to expect…

  3. #108503
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    So what's your answer? Don't complain, just shut up and take it?

  4. #108504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    What’s that? Can’t hear you from all the way up here in 1st place dude.
    Must be a bit deaf from when we beat you threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee times

  5. #108505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    So what's your answer? Don't complain, just shut up and take it?
    Complain to the right people and about the right things. The government rules about how many games can be televised are the reason. Change that and they would broadcast more games for cheaper. Like they do everywhere else in the world.

    The clubs would get more money; the networks get more content; the fans get more games to watch. Win. Win. Win.

  6. #108506
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    They might not expect it but it is what happens across all industries. People expect a lot of things they are not going to ever get and have no right to expect…
    Why do they have no right to expect it? They already pay a subscription (at least one) for a diluted product. This has nothing to do with capitalisim and everything to do with greed.

  7. #108507
    Simon
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Complain to the right people and about the right things. The government rules about how many games can be televised are the reason. Change that and they would broadcast more games for cheaper. Like they do everywhere else in the world.

    The clubs would get more money; the networks get more content; the fans get more games to watch. Win. Win. Win.
    So why bother having forums then? No point in discussing anything unless it leads to direct change?

  8. #108508
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    They might not expect it but it is what happens across all industries. People expect a lot of things they are not going to ever get and have no right to expect…
    The old fallback of this is what happens in any other industry falls down when in countless examples across other industries a price point has changed to suit demand. If you are expecting people to gobble up the first price point that they come up with then you aren't actually using a comparison correctly.

    A simple equivalent would be a theme park or tourist attraction where families go, but are stuck and a captive market, and have no place to go for lunch - so they have the option of either paying over the odds for shit food or bringing in a packed lunch/picnic at a fraction of the cost.

    People have the right to complain if it helps the odds of the price being lowered in the future. You're mad to think people shouldn't voice their opinion over this, which is a relatively brand new offering (and therefore brand new price point) in the market.

  9. #108509
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Because that is more than it cost to see a game in person. Why would anyone pay more for a worse experience? But £15 is cheaper than a ticket. So you are paying a fraction of the original cost for a fraction of a the experience. That seems fair…
    You're conveniently missing out the incredibly important point about families who spend £200+ on tickets to go see individual games. So why not £100, as it is cheaper than two adults and two kids' tickets?

    Your logic is flawed.

  10. #108510
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    But that money doesn’t include these games and never has. People just want extra games televised for no additional cost.

    It is a good thing you didn't have to pay for it. It was not required to pay it. It was simply an option for those who wanted it.

    But what in life works like that you described above? That you get extra services for no additional cost? Do you also expect a pack of crisps for free because you already paid for cookies last week?
    Well people are basically being forced to cough up for it.

    You can not go and watch the match in person, they are not being shown anywhere else so what is the point of the games happening? They are readily available around the globe for buttons but you cant watch the game of the club next door to you unless you cough up an arbitrary £15.

    People pay for Sky, BT etc because it is the ONLY way to watch the games. It isn't even the same product without fans anyway.

    As has been discussed before, provide a reasonably priced option for people with good quality streams that always work and people would happily pay it and it would not effect any live gates either (once live gates are a thing.)

    The current model is totally archaic and screws over the fans multiple times.

    Greed is good though right?

  11. #108511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Must be a bit deaf from when we beat you threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee times
    Haven’t you got bigger problems to worry about in fairness fella? I know you aren’t the sharpest tool in the box and your posting style is abysmal but surely even you’ve realised if Liverpool don’t win the League, Tottenham probably will?

    I have a feeling you’ll be wearing a Liverpool shirt again, on your knees begging us to stop them for the 2nd time in 2 years before long .

  12. #108512
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    I mean I watch it (Not paying for it..) as there is nothing else to do but meh, if it got cancelled tomorrow I wouldn't be massively bothered either.
    Isn’t it strange how Evertonians’ desire to see a season finish, hinges entirely of whether they’re 1st in the table or not.

    Don’t blame you for not engaging directly with me Molly, bar the obligatory snide remarks. Everton Fans been done been scared of me for years and I pride myself on that.

  13. #108513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    Haven’t you got bigger problems to worry about in fairness fella? I know you aren’t the sharpest tool in the box and your posting style is abysmal but surely even you’ve realised if Liverpool don’t win the League, Tottenham probably will?

    I have a feeling you’ll be wearing a Liverpool shirt again, on your knees begging us to stop them for the 2nd time in 2 years before long .
    Nah, fine thanks. Just beaten United, beaten LiVARpool 3 times and got a great young manager.

    Try a bit harder, everyone knows you just come on to try and wind people up - try actually contributing to a discussion kid.

  14. #108514
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    Isn’t it strange how Evertonians’ desire to see a season finish, hinges entirely of whether they’re 1st in the table or not.

    Don’t blame you for not engaging directly with me Molly, bar the obligatory snide remarks. Everton Fans been done been scared of me for years and I pride myself on that.
    I'm 43 years old mate, I have zero interest in engaging with silly shouty arguments about football with some bloke who I don't even know.

    More than happy to talk normally with you as I actually quite like you from back in the day but the Rar football! stuff with all the photos and stuff, nah not for me, cant be arsed even reading it, its really hard to follow, maybe its my age?

    It's not just you by the way, there are plenty of people I cant be arsed with on here or in general these days.

  15. #108515
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    Beat Man United For The 1st Time in 14 Years Trophy.

  16. #108516
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    I'm 43 years old mate, I have zero interest in engaging with silly shouty arguments about football with some bloke who I don't even know.

    More than happy to talk normally with you as I actually quite like you from back in the day but the Rar football! stuff with all the photos and stuff, nah not for me, cant be arsed even reading it, its really hard to follow, maybe its my age?

    It's not just you by the way, there are plenty of people I cant be arsed with on here or in general these days.
    You aren’t that old Molly. You’ve still got at least another 35 years alive, living in our unequivocally successful shadow.

  17. #108517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    You aren’t that old Molly. You’ve still got at least another 35 years alive, living in our unequivocally successful shadow.
    I would take 35 years right now to be honest...

  18. #108518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    Beat Man United For The 1st Time in 14 Years Trophy.
    7-2. And we beat you 3 times lol.

  19. #108519
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    Any danger of you lot talking about football rather than reigniting feuds from a decade ago?

    This season has been so weird so far. Doesn't feel like there's any team that look like champions at the moment, I mean we're second and should probably be top given the Newcastle game, and we've only played well in two out of seven games (plus fifteen minutes of the West Ham game). City and United are miles off it, Chelsea and Arsenal look as patchy as usual and Villa and Everton have hit the skids after good starts...Liverpool are top but don't look anywhere near last year's level, I suppose you could look at that and say they can improve a lot, but they're very unconvincing right now.

    Potentially a big improvement for one of the top sides - David Alaba has had a contract offer withdrawn at Bayern and looks set to leave either in January or for free at the end of the season. Would be a huge signing for United or Chelsea, the only teams who need a centre back and could afford his wages (he turned down £400k a week at Bayern apparently).

  20. #108520
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    City couldn't afford him?

    You are right in that in feels pretty wide open at the moment. I think the lack of crowds and playing atmosphere has definitely been a levelling. Not just for players but also for referees. We had Mike Dean yesterday who has a terrible record for us against Man Utd. I think if the crowd is there yesterday he doesn't give that penalty.

  21. #108521
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    United are shit so no, would rather not talk about the season.

  22. #108522
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    You have actually looked good in patches. United have some excellent players, I just think the manager just isn't as good as any of the other managers in the top 10 (possibly apart from Lampard).

  23. #108523
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    That's why we are so shit. Because we have looked good at times so you know it's not just that more people need to brought in (although as Si says could definitely do with Alaba and a natural wingers so we never have to play James again no matter what).

    Can't break a team down who doesn't open out their defense. Been the same problem for the past 2-3 years. After the transfer it looked like Bruno was the answer, but that's not panning out.

  24. #108524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    City couldn't afford him?
    They've already got Laporte and Ake to play at left centre back. They could buy him for the left back spot though I guess.

  25. #108525
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    That's why we are so shit. Because we have looked good at times so you know it's not just that more people need to brought in (although as Si says could definitely do with Alaba and a natural wingers so we never have to play James again no matter what).

    Can't break a team down who doesn't open out their defense. Been the same problem for the past 2-3 years. After the transfer it looked like Bruno was the answer, but that's not panning out.
    I just don't think the manager has a definitive plan. He also doesn't want to drop star names when he probably should (likes of Pogba)

  26. #108526
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Yeah Ole definitely has to shoulder more than his fair share of blame. Before this game he's done fairly well in "Big" games (and to pre-empt things yes I still consider a game against Arsenal a big game).

    Pogba just hasn't fit well with the team since 18 for the most part. There will be games where he bosses things. But then there are games like yesterday where he is worse than invisible, his mistakes are too glaring. He's almost seemed to do better coming off the bench than when he's been starting this season. Ole has to give Donny the chance to start a PL game. Things aren't working right now in the league, need to switch something up.

  27. #108527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Why do they have no right to expect it? They already pay a subscription (at least one) for a diluted product. This has nothing to do with capitalisim and everything to do with greed.
    But the subscription never included those games. They are not subscribing to every game. They are subscribing to certain networks that air a finite amount of matches.

  28. #108528
    The Rosk
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    There is no other way to watch it, unlike before. The price is decided by the people who put it on PPV. The price is also allowed to be discussed by the prospective audience.

    I point you towards Mulan, which couldn't be released in the cinema (usual cost I'd estimate to be around £30-£40 on average for a family to go), but was released as a PPV style stream for £20 on Disney Plus. And it bombed, because people weren't willing to pay that amount for it. A more reasonable access price would have no doubt resulted in a lot more happy people, a lot more viewers, and an audience that didn't feel like they were being taken the piss out of.

  29. #108529
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    But the subscription never included those games. They are not subscribing to every game. They are subscribing to certain networks that air a finite amount of matches.

    You ask the question, all us who live over here give you the answer and tell you it's too much, every single one of us finally have something we all agree with and yet you want to tell us we are all wrong?

    What's going on here?

  30. #108530
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    You ask the question, all us who live over here give you the answer and tell you it's too much, every single one of us finally have something we all agree with and yet you want to tell us we are all wrong?

    What's going on here?
    I feel like if we were talking about anything other than televising football matches, people would have the exact opposite position. They would completely understand that getting more services costs more money. There are extra fees for all kinds of things right now but the sum of them don't get half the complaints that the football PPV did.

    I am trying to understand if the disconnect is between England and America or people who go to matches and those who don't or if it is something else.

  31. #108531
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I feel like if we were talking about anything other than televising football matches, people would have the exact opposite position. They would completely understand that getting more services costs more money. There are extra fees for all kinds of things right now but the sum of them don't get half the complaints that the football PPV did.

    I am trying to understand if the disconnect is between England and America or people who go to matches and those who don't or if it is something else.
    You are not trying to understand it though, you are asking the question and then shitting on the answers given.

    Of course there will be a disconnect between America and the UK, they are different places!

    It's the size of the fees that is the main issue. Times are tough, people are losing their jobs, people are dying, nobody wants to chuck 15 quid at a match every week being played in front of nobody. Some people will do it as football is their life even though they really cant afford it.

    It is a massively tone deaf thing for them to be doing right now hence a lot of people not getting involved and instead giving cash to charity etc. I rag on the UK a lot but we are quite good when it comes to that kind of thing generally. Sometimes enough is enough.

  32. #108532
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I feel like if we were talking about anything other than televising football matches, people would have the exact opposite position. They would completely understand that getting more services costs more money. There are extra fees for all kinds of things right now but the sum of them don't get half the complaints that the football PPV did.

    I am trying to understand if the disconnect is between England and America or people who go to matches and those who don't or if it is something else.
    It’s more the fact that every single game should be televised, like you all get abroad. We get a fraction of the games you get and we pay about 5 times more anyway. So then there’s the PPV ontop. It’s too much and a pisstake, so we should boycott it really. I did pay, but even though we won 2-1 it was a complete waste of money. Crap match infront of no fans. That £15 would be better off spent on 2 pizzas or something, I only spent it because i have no self control. Wouldn’t do it again unless it was a big match, which it won’t be, it’s all the shit matches which wouldn’t have been on telly anyway.

  33. #108533
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    I agree that you guys should have more games on TV and for cheaper. Feels like literally everyone does.

    So focus on changing that. With the power of the Premier League and their fans, you guys should be able to force though the changes needed to get rid of the rules about how many games can be broadcast and when and the PPV scheme will go away in a heartbeat.

    The Premier League would LOVE to broadcast every game domestically. Get them to help instead of making them the enemy…

  34. #108534
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    So focus on changing that. With the power of the Premier League and their fans, you guys should be able to force though the changes needed to get rid of the rules about how many games can be broadcast and when and the PPV scheme will go away in a heartbeat.
    This will happen eventually but there is an argument against it because if all games (ie. including the traditional 3pm kick offs) were shown live on TV, it could affect the crowds at clubs in the lower leagues who rely on ticket sales to stay afloat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon View Post
    This will happen eventually but there is an argument against it because if all games (ie. including the traditional 3pm kick offs) were shown live on TV, it could affect the crowds at clubs in the lower leagues who rely on ticket sales to stay afloat.
    Yeah the lower leagues stand to be more affected than the top divisions, I don't think it affects the top at all as people don't just go the match to watch the football, its the whole match day gathering stuff (unless you are a miserable git like me who turns up, watches and then goes home as soon as the whistle goes...)

    I would like to think that football fans will go and watch who they support regardless of who is on telly but I assume the likes of Beefy and all those who support those clubs would have more knowledge on that.

  36. #108536
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    I need to go to every home game or I get my IRA membership revoked.

  37. #108537
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    I'm not seeing the fans not going to watch it if it's on the telly argument. That's on clubs to not produce a lazy, overpriced match day experience. Nothing beats a live game with a proper atmosphere. I think more clubs will have to adapt (like Shrewsbury have with the safe standing area, for example), and try and create ways in which the experience of going to a game is unrivalled. Or by charging less on the gate as they're getting more of a cut on the TV revenue. Clubs can't expect to have their cake and eat it and maintain a happy fanbase.

  38. #108538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny Batter View Post
    I'm not seeing the fans not going to watch it if it's on the telly argument. That's on clubs to not produce a lazy, overpriced match day experience. Nothing beats a live game with a proper atmosphere. I think more clubs will have to adapt (like Shrewsbury have with the safe standing area, for example), and try and create ways in which the experience of going to a game is unrivalled. Or by charging less on the gate as they're getting more of a cut on the TV revenue. Clubs can't expect to have their cake and eat it and maintain a happy fanbase.
    What are you not seeing? Lower league clubs always hope their midweek home games aren't up against big Champions League ties.

    Have you been to Shrewsbury's safe standing area?

  39. #108539
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    Barnet always saw lower attendances on nights when Arsenal specifically were in the champions league as there was such a crossover of fans.

  40. #108540
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    Not really a problem anymore.

  41. #108541
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    I'm still laughing at Shrewsbury being used as the gold standard of enticing fans to the matchday experience. It's a new Lego stadium in an Aldi car park.

    The safe standing area was built behind the opposite goal from the away fans. As a result the fans who want to stand and generate atmosphere stand in the corner by the away stand with a lad with a drum. That section is always full but safe standing which is four rows is always half full. To be fair the group that do stand there do make a good effort with flags.

  42. #108542
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I agree that you guys should have more games on TV and for cheaper. Feels like literally everyone does.

    So focus on changing that. With the power of the Premier League and their fans, you guys should be able to force though the changes needed to get rid of the rules about how many games can be broadcast and when and the PPV scheme will go away in a heartbeat.

    The Premier League would LOVE to broadcast every game domestically. Get them to help instead of making them the enemy…
    I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve here. We're on a discussion forum discussing things. Are you trying to get us marching for the protest?

    In addition to the same gripes everyone else has, I am also absolutely certain that the schedule of televised games was arranged this season knowing that they were then going to end up being able to charge a premium for games that aren't televised. Every week there seems to be a couple of 'big games' that somehow inexplicably are available on box office as they 'weren't supposed to be televised' which you know is a crock of shit.

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    I have never seen fans as passionate about anything as they are about complaining about the £15 fee so I keep assuming there is something about the issue that I am missing. Why this specific idea is so horrible when it just seems like the continuation of a trend that has been going on for 25 years? Why do fans think they have a right to have every game be on TV for no additional cost when they didn't care about that one year ago?

    Yes, the Premier League and the clubs are greedy and don't give a shit about supporters and just want more money. But that has been true since 1991…

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    Why do you just keep repeating the same questions over and over again in slightly different ways and then ignore the responses? What are you hoping to achieve?

  45. #108545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Why do you just keep repeating the same questions over and over again in slightly different ways and then ignore the responses? What are you hoping to achieve?
    Because the responses don't answer the questions.

    "Because its horse-shit" is not an answer to "Why are you mad?". Why it is horse-shit?

    MMH did a nice job here:
    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    You are not trying to understand it though, you are asking the question and then shitting on the answers given.

    Of course there will be a disconnect between America and the UK, they are different places!

    It's the size of the fees that is the main issue. Times are tough, people are losing their jobs, people are dying, nobody wants to chuck 15 quid at a match every week being played in front of nobody. Some people will do it as football is their life even though they really cant afford it.

    It is a massively tone deaf thing for them to be doing right now hence a lot of people not getting involved and instead giving cash to charity etc. I rag on the UK a lot but we are quite good when it comes to that kind of thing generally. Sometimes enough is enough.
    I don't necessarily agree with all of this but these are reasons at least. I dropped it after this because they at least tried to answer it.
    Last edited by _me; November 3rd, 2020 at 6:06 PM.

  46. #108546
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    We keep telling you this people largely understand the desire or need to charge for the games its the amount that's tone deaf and annoyed people.

    Our countries have different ppv cultures.

    People would like some of the games on terrestrial TV of course for a number of reasons and they would love to see more games for free but most understand that isn't going to happen. Personally I don't want bt/sky/amazon to show more games unless they pay the league more money for them.

    Most of us will find a way to support our clubs financially. I've bought more kits/clothing this year including kits for my 2 eldest sons.

    Rosks example of mulan is one of the best you'll get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by son_of_foley View Post
    I've bought more kits/clothing this year including kits for my 2 eldest sons.
    Got the pink one other week... Ya know for the charity

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    Quote Originally Posted by son_of_foley View Post
    We keep telling you this people largely understand the desire or need to charge for the games its the amount that's tone deaf and annoyed people.

    Our countries have different ppv cultures.

    People would like some of the games on terrestrial TV of course for a number of reasons and they would love to see more games for free but most understand that isn't going to happen. Personally I don't want bt/sky/amazon to show more games unless they pay the league more money for them.

    Most of us will find a way to support our clubs financially. I've bought more kits/clothing this year including kits for my 2 eldest sons.

    Rosks example of mulan is one of the best you'll get.
    Maybe I just didn't understand the way you guys were saying it before or read it well enough. Because this makes sense this time. That is what I was getting at the "culture" between America and England part. You guys aren't expected to pay extra like we have been for 20 years.

    The main issue seems to be I think £15 is cheap (we pay twice as much over in America) and you guys think it is expensive (you pay much less normally).

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    Jota fire. He scores every game and he’s gone from strength to strength since popping up with the winner against Arsenal on his debut.

    5-0 away win for the English Champions and 6 time European Cup Winners.

  50. #108550
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
    Got the pink one other week... Ya know for the charity
    Its nice, I quite like it.

    Got the kids the home kit each. Hope is to take eldest over for a game in a few years. Will be heading to oval to watch glentoran first, Windsor for national team hopefully too before then as I hope to indoctrinate them all

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    I too hope to get to a game in the next few years

  52. #108552
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    I imagine there will be some attendance in January but with everything in life atm who bloody knows

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    Yup.

  54. #108554
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Maybe I just didn't understand the way you guys were saying it before or read it well enough. Because this makes sense this time. That is what I was getting at the "culture" between America and England part. You guys aren't expected to pay extra like we have been for 20 years.

    The main issue seems to be I think £15 is cheap (we pay twice as much over in America) and you guys think it is expensive (you pay much less normally).
    You pay £30 for what in America? One off premier league games?

    If you mean NFL games or whatever then there are 16 games a season there, not 38 like here, and the games last much longer.

    The only way I would pay £15 a week (!) to watch a premier league game on telly is if they gave you every game that week with it. Its daft really, people will just stream the games instead, its not hard, standards are usually good and nobody makes any money from it at all. Maybe it's a culture thing who knows but generally most people will not be paying that amount of money here.

    A think another overlooked issue here is a lot of people choose to watch a televised match in the pub, you get your social stuff, you get drinks and you don't have to pay to watch the actual match. People obviously can not do this right now so to just whack a £15 fee on is wrong.

    This televised stuff is weird anyway. If they were not televising the games then nobody would be able to watch them anyway so why bother even playing? They would make more than enough money just selling advertising slots to whatever shite betting company they want to deal with this week.

  55. #108555
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    I'm still laughing at Shrewsbury being used as the gold standard of enticing fans to the matchday experience. It's a new Lego stadium in an Aldi car park.

    The safe standing area was built behind the opposite goal from the away fans. As a result the fans who want to stand and generate atmosphere stand in the corner by the away stand with a lad with a drum. That section is always full but safe standing which is four rows is always half full. To be fair the group that do stand there do make a good effort with flags.
    It's something different, that was my point. The melting pot of the ground change and the distancing from the ugly EDL days and turning it into a family friendly club lead to them not coming close to filling that ground (and £20 to watch third, sometimes fourth, tier football in fairness). It's a tough ground to generate atmosphere because it's a local, small club with a ground pegged away from the town, so they've tried something different to improve the matchday experience. Has it worked? Not particularly, but it's an effort.

    I prefer the Crystal Palace cheerleaders though, honestly. As long as us Brits don't adopt the American routine of firing a mad cunt out of a plane with a massive flag I'm good.

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    Brilliant away champions league performance by us tonight.

  57. #108557
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Not bad I suppose, Could Jota take Firminos place now?

  58. #108558
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    You pay £30 for what in America? One off premier league games?

    If you mean NFL games or whatever then there are 16 games a season there, not 38 like here, and the games last much longer.

    The only way I would pay £15 a week (!) to watch a premier league game on telly is if they gave you every game that week with it. Its daft really, people will just stream the games instead, its not hard, standards are usually good and nobody makes any money from it at all. Maybe it's a culture thing who knows but generally most people will not be paying that amount of money here.

    A think another overlooked issue here is a lot of people choose to watch a televised match in the pub, you get your social stuff, you get drinks and you don't have to pay to watch the actual match. People obviously can not do this right now so to just whack a £15 fee on is wrong.

    This televised stuff is weird anyway. If they were not televising the games then nobody would be able to watch them anyway so why bother even playing? They would make more than enough money just selling advertising slots to whatever shite betting company they want to deal with this week.
    There are single PPV football games that at $50 (college football; the pro football contracts don't allow PPV). And yes people pay for it.

    If we want to watch NFL, we are expected to pay over $100 per month for service (subscribe to DirecTV; the exclusive place to buy it) and then have to pay an addition $300 to get the NFL games that are not included in the basic service.

    The pub/sports bar aspect is kind of the same here for those reasons. Many people can't afford those costs so they watch the games at bars with their friends.

  59. #108559
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    So, if you wanted to watch most of the football over here and all of your own teams games, you’d have to pay around £12 a month for a TV license, then say £40 a month for Sky, maybe another £20 a month for BT Sports and on top of that maybe £30-45 a month for your own teams. If you want to watch the other non-televised premier league games you’d have to knock it up maybe another £240 or so a month.

    If you guys pay more than that over there and just accept it, then you shouldn’t be giving anyone in this thread advice or questioning anything other than the shitty deal that you’ve accepted.

  60. #108560
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    I agree we are being screwed over here. That was part of the reason I was asking the questions. I was trying to figure out how much and what they were trying to force on you guys compared to what they have already done to us.

    I don't think you guys should accept it or become like us at all; I do feel like fans are complaining about the wrong thing if they want to fix the problem. But you guys disagree…

    Honestly, I don't really care one way or another. It doesn't impact me in anyway. I was just curious because I haven't seen the supporters so universally upset about something in the 10+ years I have followed football regularly.

  61. #108561
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    Slightly connected but really just a random question for everyone:

    Over the last 10 years or so, what one or two things have made you the most upset involving football? Maybe one for your specific club and one more general…

  62. #108562
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    canada
    The introduction of VAR

  63. #108563
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Slightly connected but really just a random question for everyone:

    Over the last 10 years or so, what one or two things have made you the most upset involving football? Maybe one for your specific club and one more general…
    Sam Allardyce being given the England job the way he was meaning that Sunderland didn’t have time to find a replacement properly and consequently not being able to do any business over the summer, leading to us getting David Moyes in and him instantly being absolutely fucking useless. I firmly believe that if we kept Fat Sam we’d be an established midtable premier league side now, instead of languishing in the 3rd flight of English football...as England sacked him after one game.

  64. #108564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex View Post
    The introduction of VAR
    That was at least a debate. There were many people who wanted it. But that was definitely something I was comparing it to.

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    When I was thinking back, the first thing I thought of was the fiasco about the 2018/2022 World Cups bids. Everyone knew FIFA was corrupt and they were bribed and everyone was livid. But then we just accepted it…

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Sam Allardyce being given the England job the way he was meaning that Sunderland didn’t have time to find a replacement properly and consequently not being able to do any business over the summer, leading to us getting David Moyes in and him instantly being absolutely fucking useless. I firmly believe that if we kept Fat Sam we’d be an established midtable premier league side now, instead of languishing in the 3rd flight of English football...as England sacked him after one game.
    I know the PR would have been bad but I was always surprised they didn't bring him back. He seemed like a great fit with Sunderland.

  67. #108567
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    When I was thinking back, the first thing I thought of was the fiasco about the 2018/2022 World Cups bids. Everyone knew FIFA was corrupt and they were bribed and everyone was livid. But then we just accepted it…
    I saw nothing wrong with 2018 personally. Russia is historically a football nation, loads of good sides in the past, good grounds and were more than capable of hosting a normal world cup. I know they have issues there but so does South Africa and Brazil and nobody seemed to mind them getting it in recent times.

    Qatar is just ridiculous though, tiny place, no footballing history, stupidly hot and just reeked of dodgyness.

  68. #108568
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Slightly connected but really just a random question for everyone:

    Over the last 10 years or so, what one or two things have made you the most upset involving football? Maybe one for your specific club and one more general…
    In general - the amount of money in the game, whether it be players, agents, or owners.

    For Arsenal - the gradual decline from a top side to an also ran, under a fading legendary manager with a sterile ownership.

  69. #108569
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    I saw nothing wrong with 2018 personally. Russia is historically a football nation, loads of good sides in the past, good grounds and were more than capable of hosting a normal world cup. I know they have issues there but so does South Africa and Brazil and nobody seemed to mind them getting it in recent times.

    Qatar is just ridiculous though, tiny place, no footballing history, stupidly hot and just reeked of dodgyness.
    Russia is one of the most corrupt places on the planet MMH...

  70. #108570
    I'm always watching you.. MMH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Russia is one of the most corrupt places on the planet MMH...
    Did you read any other the other stuff I typed?

    Brazil is just as bad, I only really care about if the World Cup suits the nation its being held in. Dodgy nations have been hosting world cups since they began.

    Russia was probably the biggest footballing nation to never hold a World cup so I was OK with it.

  71. #108571
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    I did. Brazil is bad, but Russia is much worse.

  72. #108572
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    how so?

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    https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi#

    Russia = 137th/198 countries
    Brazil = 106th/198 countries

  74. #108574
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    And yet Switzerland is seen as not very corrupt and yet here were are with it being Fifa who took the money...

  75. #108575
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    PPV model may be dead btw @_me

  76. #108576
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    Now even more people get to lose their jobs. Yay!?!

  77. #108577
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    Did you read any other the other stuff I typed?

    Brazil is just as bad, I only really care about if the World Cup suits the nation its being held in. Dodgy nations have been hosting world cups since they began.

    Russia was probably the biggest footballing nation to never hold a World cup so I was OK with it.
    Russia getting a tournament was OK. It was the manner it was done and the combining of the two bids into one announcement and then them going to the most unlikely choices that reeked of corruption.

  78. #108578
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    Quote Originally Posted by son_of_foley View Post
    And yet Switzerland is seen as not very corrupt and yet here were are with it being Fifa who took the money...
    Are the Swiss seen as non-corrupt? This and their pocket knives are probably the two most well-known things about them over here.
    https://www.nytimes.com/1996/12/14/w...nazi-gold.html

  79. #108579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    https://www.transparency.org/en/cpi#

    Russia = 137th/198 countries
    Brazil = 106th/198 countries
    So where's your cut off?

  80. #108580
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    Quote Originally Posted by wardy View Post
    So where's your cut off?
    136th obviously...

  81. #108581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I did. Brazil is bad, but Russia is much worse.
    Well as I said that's irrelevant to me (within reason obviously..) Purely based on footballing merit Russia were worthy of hosting a world cup. They are a traditional footballing nation with big stadiums, good infrastructure (in the regions it was played anyway) and they were due. I can only rarely think of Turkey (which was having its own issues) who had not hosted it before who ticked all the boxes. I guess Portugal, Netherlands and Belgium but they would probably need a combined bid these days due to lack of big enough grounds which is why Qatar winning the bid was ridiculous.

    All I am saying is Russia should not be getting lumped in with Qatar in terms of nations who should get to host a world cup as they are not remotely comparable.

  82. #108582
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I know the PR would have been bad but I was always surprised they didn't bring him back. He seemed like a great fit with Sunderland.
    I entirely agree. Probably didn't help Ellis Short saying that David Moyes was always the one he wanted over the likes of Allardyce.

  83. #108583
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Now even more people get to lose their jobs. Yay!?!
    Bit of a stretch there

    check this out from acrington stanley chairman https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status...-one-1-6896225

    Made more money for 1 league cup game vs sunderland
    https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status...52877129670656

    If you care about people losing their jobs then having people actually in stadiums would probably be the way to go rather than a flawed PPV model

  84. #108584
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMH View Post
    Well as I said that's irrelevant to me (within reason obviously..) Purely based on footballing merit Russia were worthy of hosting a world cup. They are a traditional footballing nation with big stadiums, good infrastructure (in the regions it was played anyway) and they were due. I can only rarely think of Turkey (which was having its own issues) who had not hosted it before who ticked all the boxes. I guess Portugal, Netherlands and Belgium but they would probably need a combined bid these days due to lack of big enough grounds which is why Qatar winning the bid was ridiculous.

    All I am saying is Russia should not be getting lumped in with Qatar in terms of nations who should get to host a world cup as they are not remotely comparable.
    Qatar is by far and away the worst choice they could have made

    Brazil was such an odd choice I thought too with proximity to olympics and other things

  85. #108585
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by son_of_foley View Post
    Bit of a stretch there

    check this out from acrington stanley chairman https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status...-one-1-6896225

    Made more money for 1 league cup game vs sunderland
    https://twitter.com/AndyhHolt/status...52877129670656

    If you care about people losing their jobs then having people actually in stadiums would probably be the way to go rather than a flawed PPV model
    Personally, I would probably do both. Have a limited number of season ticket holders (rotating so everyone gets some games) and then PPV (at a lower rate) for those who can't go in person.

    I just remember reading about how clubs are furloughing stadium/backroom staffs because of all the lost revenue. So I am generally supportive of anything that raises revenue so people don't lose their jobs. Probably naive of me to assume the PPV money would actually make its way to regular workers and not the chairman/owner but that is why I didn't have an issue in the first place.

  86. #108586
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Most of the staff sacked or let go were match day staff. Catering, Stewards things like that. They wouldn't be impacted.

    Yes some backroom staff are being let go but yet the clubs are still paying new players 100's of thousands a week... It's not a money problem to me, it's a priority and culture problem in the premier league. Lower down the leagues they are probably finding PPV isn't cutting it too much. I would like to see Amazon etc pay a little more and acces some EFL games and show them. Infact I would be delighted if free to air tv channels picked up some of them too. I mean realistically couldn't they pretty much show the feeds as is from IFollow and just throw some of the cash at the teams for 'lost revenue'. Wouldn't need to be every game but 1/2 games from each of the 3 lower EFL leagues may help a little.

    Fans in stadiums by new year though I reckon. We have had some in Northern Ireland already

  87. #108587
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    You are right. The super-rich never do the sacrificing during hardships…only been true since the dawn of civilization

    Like I said, naive of me to assume the money would actually save jobs. That was never the goal or plan behind the PPVs. It just should have been.

  88. #108588
    Simon
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    PPV has been sacked, with club executives saying they were shocked by the anger from fans. But yeah we shouldn't complain should we. That's two big wins for fans in a few weeks just through the strength of the reaction. I was laughed at for saying people power, but what else can you call it?

  89. #108589
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    Club executives must be thick as shit.

  90. #108590
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  91. #108591
    Yikes
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    Not seven at least though.

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    Last edited by Underscore_; December 19th, 2020 at 7:26 PM.

  93. #108593
    The Rosk
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    Wow. What a fantastic performance. Jack Grealish man. I've lost all words now.

  94. #108594
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    Quote Originally Posted by Underscore_ View Post
    Three time three time three timeeeeeee

  95. #108595
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    Fair play to Villa. Much the better side, Grealish is the real deal. Lot for Arteta to think about , we just are not creating anything.

  96. #108596
    The Rosk
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    Do you still have faith in Arteta? Emery now has a better record than him, a manager who was universally shat upon. It was criminally easy for us yesterday. Pepe must at some point go down as one of the worst buys in PL history for the price you paid for him.

    It's such a strange season.

    Villa's last five games:

    SMASH Liverpool H
    BEAT Leicester A
    GET BATTERED BY LEEDS H
    Go 0-4 down to Southampton H
    BATTER Arsenal A


  97. #108597
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Three time three time three timeeeeeee
    Mate they've won the champions league, league, super Cup and World club championship. I don't think this will work

  98. #108598
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    No comment.

  99. #108599
    RFF WORLDWIDE WESTERN CON son_of_foley's Avatar
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    For all the talk of Arteta being CLEAR of Lampard he's still got to show some more.

    FA cup win is great but they've spent pretty big this summer. Frank has shown more imo

  100. #108600
    Football manager? Peter Griffin's Avatar
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    I'd go along with that, I think Chelsea COULD have a chance at the title, arsenal not so much.

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