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Thread: The Invasion revisited - 20 years on

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    The Invasion revisited - 20 years on

    Amazingly, it is almost 20 years since the 'official' start of the Invasion.

    Like many, at the time I was so excited about this as the ultimate angle. Unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way but it was an interesting time.

    Looking back, and thinking about it, it was almost a perfect storm of things that went wrong some were WWEs fault, some weren't:-

    1) Not signing the top talent

    No Sting, Goldberg, Flair, Hogan, Nash or Hall. Probably the 6 biggest names in WCW and WWE didn't get one of the them (though they all joined at some point after). I don't blame WWE for this. They weren't going to be able to match the downsides of those guys, and they werent going to come in whilst they were on beach on big money. don't blame WWE for this one.

    2) Injuries

    Aside from the Rock who was away filming a movie when it started, HHH and Benoit also sustained long term injuries and Austin and Angle were both also injured. The roster was suddenly very light on top guys. Once HHH was injured....

    3) Timing

    Vince originally had decided to have this in 2002, but due to HHHs injury he felt he had to move it forward. Had they held out a year they could have had Flair, NWO and even Bischoff. Speaking of which...

    4) Wrong figurehead

    Why oh why oh why would have Shane and Stephanie as the owners of WCW and ECW? Heyman was there already, ok Bischoff didnt want to do it 01, but imagine the impact those two could have got. Shane and Steph never made sense

    5) No WCW TV deal

    Vince couldnt get a separate TV deal with the WCW roster they had. UPN werent going to allow Smackdown to change, so where is the endgame? WWE winning the feud.

    6) Bad booking

    Now this one IS Vinces fault. WCW had two stars come over and both were booked like shit. Booker T did job after job (Rock, Taker, Angle, Austin) and DDP was buried off the bat with dumb stalker angle. RVD is the one guy who got over, but even his momentum stopped after he didnt win the No Mercy title match.

    Thoughts?

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    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    1) I can’t believe that angle was 20 years ago.

    2) The standout moment for me was Stone Cold returning and fighting everyone from the moment he jumped out of his truck all the way to the ring. Mark our moment for me, and one of my favorite wrestling moments.

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    If I'm not mistaken, Invasion was the highest grossing non-Wrestlemania PPV, which is pretty impressive. I did not see this live, probably saw it four or five years after in fact. The dreams of WCW vs. WWE were much better than what we got.

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    Vince was never going to give us this dream storyline because why would he? Most of the people in that Alliance that got a push during that whole thing were not even WCW/ECW guys other than maybe Booker and RVD. If they had Nash, Goldberg, Hogan, those guys would've been beaten just as easily as everyone else.

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    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    obviously the right thing to do was to wait until you could sign goldberg, hall, nash, hogan, etc, then kick off the angle. a more interesting question is what should they have done with the people they had? obviously DDP should have been a much bigger deal. the pop for him was huge and he was a real name, he had charisma, he could work. he should have been a major player and a top star that summer. austin vs. DDP could have been a viable top program. they could have ran with RVD more than they did.

    jericho could have turned heel earlier and gone to the wcw side. jericho, ddp, rvd, booker t all pushed as real top stars isn't too weak of a heel invader slate.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The biggest mistake they made was putting Austin with the Alliance. He fucking hated WCW. It was the perfect time to turn him back babyface since nobody was really feelin the heel Austin run. A couple comedy skits and a chairshot to Lita was basically all the positives we got out of that. Think about it....Had he not joined, we would have been spared the What chants.

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    Yeah that was a great chance to just turn Austin back face, don't know why they did it.

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    That DDP stalker angle....wtf was that. Seriously. Then they unmask him and not only does Taker destroy him straightaway but then his wife pins him!

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    The entire storyline felt like it was written to make Vince feel like he'd completely and convincingly dominated everything, and that they'd tossed Austin over to the WCW side to emphasize the point that Vince always wins.

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    I watched WCW in the dying years and one of the few, few bright spots was Booker T. Great charisma, could go in the ring, could cut a promo. When he came over, I thought he would be pushed at Austin/Rock level.

    It took him 5 years to win a World Title. Insane.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I watched WCW in the dying years and one of the few, few bright spots was Booker T. Great charisma, could go in the ring, could cut a promo. When he came over, I thought he would be pushed at Austin/Rock level.

    It took him 5 years to win a World Title. Insane.
    It took Shawn Michaels 12 years. It took Bret 16 years. If we're just talking about from the time they stopped tagging in WWF it took Shawn about 5 years as well.

    Booker T won the title at the right time in his career. He never even won the US title before winning the World title. He wasn't over enough to be in that top tier just yet and by late 1999-2000 he was just starting to really find his place as a upper card singles star.

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    Snitsky never even won any title. Insane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It took Shawn Michaels 12 years. It took Bret 16 years. If we're just talking about from the time they stopped tagging in WWF it took Shawn about 5 years as well.

    Booker T won the title at the right time in his career. He never even won the US title before winning the World title. He wasn't over enough to be in that top tier just yet and by late 1999-2000 he was just starting to really find his place as a upper card singles star.
    Yeah but neither Bret or Shawn were really ready to be world champions before they were. I would argue Booker was in 2001. He got buried in the invasion and got over again with the Goldust team. Then he got buried again by HHH and took him 2 years to get back up again. He got over in spite of WWE, not because of them . Similar to Daniel Bryan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    Yeah but neither Bret or Shawn were really ready to be world champions before they were. I would argue Booker was in 2001. He got buried in the invasion and got over again with the Goldust team. Then he got buried again by HHH and took him 2 years to get back up again. He got over in spite of WWE, not because of them . Similar to Daniel Bryan.
    My bad I was having a moment where I thought you were talking about WCW. I agree, WM 19 was his time. Even if he lost it a few months later it was the time to pull the trigger. Awhile back Cewsh made a good point about how Triple H needed to retain to keep building his nuclear heat that leads in to the creation of Evolution. I still think he could've lost the title and won it back but that also would've meant losing out on the Nash-Triple H feud in the spring/summer that followed.

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    I never liked WCW, apart from the big name ex-WWE guys. They really should have had Hogan, Nash, Hall, Steiner, Flair, Sting, and Goldberg as the initial guys invading. It shouldn't be about burying talent that tried to put you out of business. They are all under your umbrella now, it should be about making as much money as possible. And feuds like Hogan/Austin, Sting/Taker, Outsiders/Brothers of Destruction, Goldberg/Maven would have fucking sold out everywhere.

    And man adding ECW in the mix, I wouldn't have combined WCW and ECW but you could have had some amazin three way matches with a WWE/WCW/ECW guys.

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    I can the simplicity behind the booking with the McMahon's involved. Stephanie getting a piece of the action, thinking she's hardcore wearing Shane Douglas' hat I mean Triple H's hat. It was so stupid. You get a brand, you get a brand, and I get a brand!

    One major flaw was uniting ECW and WCW. I'm sure the thinking was that all the fans in the crowd and at home didn't care about ECW, WCW, and that we all looked at them as invaders to our precious WWE. But ECW hated WCW. HATED them. Nobody could even come over from WCW to ECW after 1997 without getting totally shit on. Who was blowing up when Scotty Riggs debuted?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald View Post
    Snitsky never even won any title. Insane.
    That wasn't his fault

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    Some big WCW players and the dilution of the Alliance with WWE stars were the failure of me.

    On the positive side we got this:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Some big WCW players and the dilution of the Alliance with WWE stars were the failure of me.

    On the positive side we got this:

    And this is how you know it was terrible. When our highlights are comedy sketches between 2 of the baddest muthafuckas on the roster. This should be a segment where we go "Man that Angle-Austin shit was so stupid it didn't fit at all" But we're just starting to find out that not only does Russo suck without the WWF but the WWF sucks doing this Springer shit w/o Russo.

    I think had the WWF really sold us on a core group of WCW invaders they would've been ok. DDP, Booker T, Kanyon, Kronik, Shane Helms, Sean O'Hare, and Chuck Palumbo. Get some vets and new talent in the mix. The last 3 I'd simply include because they had championships plus they looked good.

    But then I think about RVD and Dreamer debuting and the tears that came out of my eyes, tears of joy. I just wasn't a fan of them pairing up with WCW. They should've just been 3 separate entities. WCW kills ECW, then WWF kills WCW once and for all.

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    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    And this is how you know it was terrible. When our highlights are comedy sketches between 2 of the baddest muthafuckas on the roster. This should be a segment where we go "Man that Angle-Austin shit was so stupid it didn't fit at all" But we're just starting to find out that not only does Russo suck without the WWF but the WWF sucks doing this Springer shit w/o Russo.

    I think had the WWF really sold us on a core group of WCW invaders they would've been ok. DDP, Booker T, Kanyon, Kronik, Shane Helms, Sean O'Hare, and Chuck Palumbo. Get some vets and new talent in the mix. The last 3 I'd simply include because they had championships plus they looked good.

    But then I think about RVD and Dreamer debuting and the tears that came out of my eyes, tears of joy. I just wasn't a fan of them pairing up with WCW. They should've just been 3 separate entities. WCW kills ECW, then WWF kills WCW once and for all.
    One of the first interpromotional matches being a shitty Bagwell one didn’t help either

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    One of the first interpromotional matches being a shitty Bagwell one didn’t help either
    Technically that wasn't an interpromotional match as Booker T and Buff were both WCW talent.

    IMHO, I think Vince just didn't really know how to go about it. He had all these ideas, even publicly talking about WCW continuing as it's own show blah blah blah. And like we've seen as recent as Aleister Black, ideas come and go at the drop of a dime. He was probably sitting there writing the show and just said eh, fuck it we'll just bury them once and for all.

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    As I recall, they never considered the potentially different reaction they could have gotten had they simply held off a week on bringing the WCW talent on board, as they following week they were in Atlanta (WCW country) where they likely would have gotten a better reaction than was it Seattle (decidedly a WWE town).

    I recall they were shopping for a new network but it really felt like they were making shit up as they went along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Technically that wasn't an interpromotional match as Booker T and Buff were both WCW talent.

    IMHO, I think Vince just didn't really know how to go about it. He had all these ideas, even publicly talking about WCW continuing as it's own show blah blah blah. And like we've seen as recent as Aleister Black, ideas come and go at the drop of a dime. He was probably sitting there writing the show and just said eh, fuck it we'll just bury them once and for all.
    Worded that badly. First WCW match on Raw I meant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    My bad I was having a moment where I thought you were talking about WCW. I agree, WM 19 was his time. Even if he lost it a few months later it was the time to pull the trigger. Awhile back Cewsh made a good point about how Triple H needed to retain to keep building his nuclear heat that leads in to the creation of Evolution. I still think he could've lost the title and won it back but that also would've meant losing out on the Nash-Triple H feud in the spring/summer that followed.
    No worries, sorry I wasn't clear. Yeah he defo wasn't ready when he got the big gold belt. I think that was more a case of Hogan/Nash/Sting had got stale and they blew the Goldberg push. They hadn't remotely pushed anyone else so it had to be Booker T.

    On HHH, I think that explanation is a sack of shit. They could have easily given Booker a 2-3 month run with the title with HHH re-gaining it at the end (like they did with HBK) and then moved it onto Goldberg. HHH just didn't like putting over WCW guys (Goldberg aside).

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    I watched WM18 recently. Was sad to see how far DDP had fallen that he was in a European title match with Christian. Love Christian, but DDP should have been in a top 3/4 match against a top talent like Angle.

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    I remember them briefly going to debut at a PPV in May but nixed it..
    They also had house shows lined up for the summer but nixed that as well

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    Without a TV deal they were never going to happen. But booked right, and with the right talent, they could have got through to WM18 at a minimum.

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    It's crazy how the ratings for WCW in their last years were considered an abomination but we backflip with joy when WWE and AEW get above a 1.0

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    I feel like the big improvements would obviously be getting the big contract guys who were sitting out their big time deals.

    I would also Start the WWE v WCW war while Paul Heyman is plotting in the background. Have him talking to previous ECW alumni then when the big wcw vs wwe fight happens that is when ECW presents themselves as a third brand in the war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    It's crazy how the ratings for WCW in their last years were considered an abomination but we backflip with joy when WWE and AEW get above a 1.0
    Landscape of how all entertainment has drastically changed. Ratings have dropped significantly for all TV programming due to the various methods of acquiring your viewing pleasures. Cable TV has been losing roughly 4 million subscribers per year in the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, cable TV subscriptions peaked in 2000 and have only ever went down since. It's not really fair to compare now vs then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    That wasn't his fault
    Popped for this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by virms View Post
    Landscape of how all entertainment has drastically changed. Ratings have dropped significantly for all TV programming due to the various methods of acquiring your viewing pleasures. Cable TV has been losing roughly 4 million subscribers per year in the last 5 or 6 years. In fact, cable TV subscriptions peaked in 2000 and have only ever went down since. It's not really fair to compare now vs then.
    I definitely feel like basing everything on cable tv ratings is an outdate practice. I've always felt it's one of a few factors that you can use to determine I guess the popularity of wrestling but your opinion has to evolve with the times. Like when Cornette will talk about how back in the 50's you had every other household in America watching pro wrestling but context is key.

    I will say this....I'm finding more and more people from younger generations not as excited about wrestling and saying the same thing a lot of us say that are why people don't really watch like they used to. It's not so much "We have more options" as it is "We have BETTER options". We also have to respect that it's pro wrestling. To us in this bubble pro wrestling is as cool as Disney and the MCU. But that doesn't translate in ratings, attendance, etc.

    Timing is important as well. WCW v. WWF worked because of decades that built up to the end. That's why nobody took a TNA v. WWE or AEW v. WWE rivalry seriously because WWE are operating on a completely different level than they were 20-30 years ago. Money can only get you so far. AEW are finding that out just like WCW and TNA found out. Owned by billionaires, still couldn't keep up the pace. I have no doubt that if we took the same scenario back in the 90's with Raw v. Nitro and put it in today's environment the result would be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I can the simplicity behind the booking with the McMahon's involved. Stephanie getting a piece of the action, thinking she's hardcore wearing Shane Douglas' hat I mean Triple H's hat. It was so stupid. You get a brand, you get a brand, and I get a brand!

    One major flaw was uniting ECW and WCW. I'm sure the thinking was that all the fans in the crowd and at home didn't care about ECW, WCW, and that we all looked at them as invaders to our precious WWE. But ECW hated WCW. HATED them. Nobody could even come over from WCW to ECW after 1997 without getting totally shit on. Who was blowing up when Scotty Riggs debuted?
    They had no choice but to ally ECW and WCW.
    The sides were just too uneven. They needed some help badly. Otherwise it would be one sided. WCW had no good tag teams to take on WWE tag teams. They needed the Dudleys.

    But it was guys that never worked for them joining is where I question it. Test had no business on WCW when you had the Big Show.

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    That's a good point. Where was Big Show, was he back in OVW during the Invasion?

    I remember him doing the Rumble through to Backlash that year.

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    Heck, they missed out on at least one storyline during the invasion. Brian Hebner was a WCW ref during this angle. They never acknowledged it to my memory. I believe they always referred him as the WCW ref.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    They had no choice but to ally ECW and WCW.
    The sides were just too uneven. They needed some help badly. Otherwise it would be one sided. WCW had no good tag teams to take on WWE tag teams. They needed the Dudleys.

    But it was guys that never worked for them joining is where I question it. Test had no business on WCW when you had the Big Show.
    They had several choices they just didn't have the benefit of hindsight lol. The WWE were changing plans for WCW on the fly. It went from "We're going to have Nitro replace Raw on Monday's and move Raw to Thursday to replace Smackdown" or whatever the fuck. Scrapped that and made it this gigantic invasion angle and I don't think we needed the entire company involved-no different than when the nWo hit. It wasn't like all the sudden Villano IV was in the storyline.

    If they had just focused on a core group of guys it would've been fine. Booker T, DDP, Kanyon, Kronik, Sean O'Hare/Palumbo, and if you absolutely had to have a guy already there make the turn don't make it be Austin.

    ECW joining the mix and siding with WCW just didn't make sense and obviously WWE felt nobody probably knew that ECW hated WCW-they just booked it as "WWF v. the World" lol. I'm not saying don't include ECW, but the end was always going to be WWE coming out on top.


    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    That's a good point. Where was Big Show, was he back in OVW during the Invasion?

    I remember him doing the Rumble through to Backlash that year.
    Yes. Then he returns and joins the nWo in 2002.

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    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Billy Kidman*
    Booker T*
    Chris Kanyon*
    Diamond Dallas Page*
    Gregory Helms/Hurricane Helms/The Hurricane*
    Lance Storm*
    Mike Awesome*
    Sean O'Haire*
    Shawn Stasiak**
    Stacy Keibler*
    Torrie Wilson

    That is the entire WCW roster left
    Kronik was added as a favor for the Undertaker later on but Vince was not impressed
    Bagwell canned after two weeks

    That makes only 8 guys and two women to take on the entire WWE. Take away the two CW to take on light heavyweights and that leaves six. Then take away your only tag team unless you count Awesome and Storm and that leaves four guys. That is why they needed ECW.

    I also argue that Austin was a great choice for defecting. It allowed Vince to finally turn Angle face knowing a PPV was in his home town. Also, knowing fans would not boo him allowed the fans to choose a side. There was no way fans would pick Booker T and DDP over Austin and Rock. But I do admit they missed the ball on the battle of the "People's champion" DDP vs Rock.
    Last edited by Bluegunn; June 22nd, 2021 at 3:49 AM.

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    You don't turn your top face heel. Just doesn't work, Austin was still the most over guy on the roster and the Rock was off filming at the start of the Invasion. Maybe if HHH hadnt got injured then the crowd would have backed him instead, but he was out too.

    Yeah, that roster sucks. Actually looking at that, it would have been better to have integrated them individually (Booker/DDP at the top, rest in the midcard and don't sign sucky Kronik), then when Flair, NWO and Bischoff become available THEN you start the angle.

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    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    The kayfabe logic behind it was sound. Austin was so desperate to win the title after his return from injury and HHH had just beat him at No Way Out so he started to dount himself would do anything and everything to win it back including selling his soul to the devil. He was getting heat to begin with but fans just couldn't stay mad at him.

  40. #40
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Austin was already a heel at this point though. You can turn your top face heel easy and work, We seen Hogan, and Roman do it. But as I said, having Austin turn was best only because the sides were so lop sided and again it allowed the fans to choose sides. Austin fans cheered for WCW. Obviously not all fans did but it helped make WCW more of a threat. Besides, don't forget it was Austin that turned on Rock at Mania to begin with so it allowed them to finish thier feud from Mania.

    Due to the thin roster though I would have kept the original plan of having WCW take on the WWE heels. It would have allowed Booker and DDP to both look better. It would look less like an invasion, but the booking was better.
    Last edited by Bluegunn; June 22nd, 2021 at 10:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    Austin was already a heel at this point though. You can turn your top face heel easy and work, We seen Hogan, and Roman do it. But as I said, having Austin turn was best only because the sides were so lop sided and again it allowed the fans to choose sides. Austin fans cheered for WCW. Obviously not all fans did but it helped make WCW more of a threat. Besides, don't forget it was Austin that turned on Rock at Mania to begin with so it allowed them to finish thier feud from Mania.

    Due to the thin roster though I would have kept the original plan of having WCW take on the WWE heels. It would have allowed Booker and DDP to both look better. It would look less like an invasion, but the booking was better.
    Timing is everything though. Austin technically had only been "STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN MAIN EVENT TOP GUY" for about 3 years, 1 of those years he spent on the injured list from his neck surgery. Turning Austin heel in 2001 would've been like turning Hogan heel in 1989.

    Austin hadn't been overpushed, oversaturating the product like Hogan in 1995-1996 or Roman for 5-6 years getting booed out of every arena while still main eventing as a babyface.

    I don't think Austin fans were cheering WCW at all. They were cheering Austin. It was clear nobody really wanted him as a heel. The guy was cheered when he hit Lita in the head with a steel chair for God's sake. It was almost like watching him in late 1996-1997 when the WWF wanted him to be a heel yet nobody was booing him-they cheered all the shit he did despite it being very heelish.

    Was the ORIGINAL plan WCW babyfaces taking on WWF heels? To my knowledge, the ORIGINAL plan was to eventually build toward a Super Bowl so to speak at Mania. The original brand split idea, they'd have their own shows, their own ppvs, and then at the big ppvs they'd throw down but in this case it was going to be Mania 18. Shit by then they would've had Flair, Scott Steiner, Hogan, Hall, and Nash.

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    Videoland Champion Badger's Avatar
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    The JR beatdown in Oklahoma where bad things always happen to him was probably my favourite heel Austin

  43. #43
    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Timing is everything though. Austin technically had only been "STONE COLD STEVE AUSTIN MAIN EVENT TOP GUY" for about 3 years, 1 of those years he spent on the injured list from his neck surgery. Turning Austin heel in 2001 would've been like turning Hogan heel in 1989.

    Austin hadn't been overpushed, oversaturating the product like Hogan in 1995-1996 or Roman for 5-6 years getting booed out of every arena while still main eventing as a babyface.

    I don't think Austin fans were cheering WCW at all. They were cheering Austin. It was clear nobody really wanted him as a heel. The guy was cheered when he hit Lita in the head with a steel chair for God's sake. It was almost like watching him in late 1996-1997 when the WWF wanted him to be a heel yet nobody was booing him-they cheered all the shit he did despite it being very heelish.

    Was the ORIGINAL plan WCW babyfaces taking on WWF heels? To my knowledge, the ORIGINAL plan was to eventually build toward a Super Bowl so to speak at Mania. The original brand split idea, they'd have their own shows, their own ppvs, and then at the big ppvs they'd throw down but in this case it was going to be Mania 18. Shit by then they would've had Flair, Scott Steiner, Hogan, Hall, and Nash.
    Yeah, I love that Hogan 89 comparison.

    Austin literally had just came off that neck surgery in the fall. He had such a big babyface run in front of him. I remember watching the end of WMX-7 waiting for a Stunner to Vince that never came.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    RVD was my Invasion highlight. He constantly stole the show to the point where he found himself in the title picture in October after like 3 months. I remember thinking there was no way he'd win the WWF Title at No Mercy but still cheering the fuck out of him while holding a little hope they'd just do something crazy.

  45. #45
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    I wish the ECW presence was them on their own and I don't think WWE respected the knowledge of the fans. When RVD and Dreamer debuted my head exploded.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yeah I remember getting on the phone and yacking like a 13 year old girl with my wrestling pals when they showed up.



    I could see all the ECW talent running in and knew Jericho and Kane were fucked! They didn't need a starless WCW roster when they had ECW right there. They could have waited and got everything in order with WCW. They literally had years of TV they squandered in months. They could have done a invasion with ECW first. Right when you think Vince and Co have fended off ECW that's when Bischoff and the NWO show up to fuck things up.

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    Looking back at the ECW talent they had.....RVD, Taz, Raven, Dreamer, Mike Awesome, Rhyno, The Dudleyz, Spike Dudley, Tajiri, Justin Credible, Lance Storm, Saturn, Dean Malenko, Chris Jericho, Benoit, Jerry Lynn, Foley, and of course Paul Heyman. Now obviously a few of those names were not part of the ECW/Alliance whatever you want to call it. Still---They were really only missing a handful of people like Shane Douglas, The Sandman, Sabu, Terry Funk I don't believe was in WWE at this time, Francine, Bigelow, Candido, but again look who the fuck they already had!

    And it still sucked in the end.

  48. #48
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    Well considering ECW talent did not get to do anything outside of the Hardcore division did not really help any matters.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    Well considering ECW talent did not get to do anything outside of the Hardcore division did not really help any matters.
    Very few of them were in the hardcore division at this time.

  50. #50
    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    ok well how about the guy that was ranked #6 in PWI ranking just a year prior being downgraded to jobber during this angle. Not that rankings mattered considering Austin was ranked number two in 2001,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    ok well how about the guy that was ranked #6 in PWI ranking just a year prior being downgraded to jobber during this angle. Not that rankings mattered considering Austin was ranked number two in 2001,
    Yo we could talk about PWI 500 all day I love the 500 more than anything in wrestling. It is the one thing that I give a shit about above anything else in wrestling for many reasons. So I totally get it. Dean Malenko was #1 in 1997. Why? We'll never know.

    Those rankings are so lame though lol. Pretty much everyone in the top 200 were whoever worked for the top promotions i.e. WWF, WCW, ECW. So if Mark Jindrak did nothing but job in 2001 he still had a better spot than someone in XPW who went undefeated.

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    Top Hulkamaniac Bluegunn's Avatar
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    If it was wins and loses Jacob Fatu would be number 1 right now

  53. #53
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluegunn View Post
    If it was wins and loses Jacob Fatu would be number 1 right now
    Him or Karrion Kross, when was the last time that dude lost? Impact?

    I will say this...Justin Credible being #6 should be a good indicator as to why ECW didn't last. I never understood why they were putting the belt on Credible, Lynn, Corino, but here's RVD. The best wrestler top to bottom in the company and he never gets a run until Vince resurrects it.

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    Stuff outside WWE never matters. WALTER remains undefeated

  55. #55
    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    Him or Karrion Kross, when was the last time that dude lost? Impact?

    I will say this...Justin Credible being #6 should be a good indicator as to why ECW didn't last. I never understood why they were putting the belt on Credible, Lynn, Corino, but here's RVD. The best wrestler top to bottom in the company and he never gets a run until Vince resurrects it.
    If he hadn't hurt his leg he would have won that strap! I remember being pretty invested in his TV Title run and they were positioning RVD to move up the card.

  56. #56
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    If he hadn't hurt his leg he would have won that strap! I remember being pretty invested in his TV Title run and they were positioning RVD to move up the card.
    Yeah but he was only gone for like 4 months. People sometimes I think confuse his leg injury where he was off for almost year in WWE but in ECW he was back working with fuckin Scotty Riggs and shit like that. I just think when he returned he should have went straight after the title. Obviously ECW and Heyman didn't think in May 2000 that in 8 months they'd be dead but still. They might have had a little more going for them with Rob as champ.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    No confusion here, but yeah brought him back to feud with Scotty Riggs. I'm not sure why he didn't go straight into the Title picture either. By that time he was head and shoulders above everything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    No confusion here, but yeah brought him back to feud with Scotty Riggs. I'm not sure why he didn't go straight into the Title picture either. By that time he was head and shoulders above everything else.
    I also think they missed him v. Mike Awesome. That was the feud to make. Champion v. Champion winner take all match where RVD unifies the World and TV title Warrior style. I think they would have gone that route but Awesome bailed to WCW I think before RVD was even hurt.

    Scotty Riggs....or Scotty Anton whatever the fuck. Man that was so lame. I just gave up on ECW after that. I knew RVD was going to keep playing "almost the top guy" forever.

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    One thing I never really got was whatever happened to Danny Doring and Amish Roadkill? The last ECW tag team champs were OVER with crowds who didn't care that neither was a great individual performer, and Roadkill couldn't talk other than to say "chickens". I had always figured it was probably a case of them both being short, so they'd look tiny compared to many in the WWE at the time.

    ECW crowds were loud regardless as to who was in the ring, but from what I remember, Doring could play the face-in-peril as well as anybody before Roadkill would get as loud a hot tag ever, before he'd clear house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    One thing I never really got was whatever happened to Danny Doring and Amish Roadkill? The last ECW tag team champs were OVER with crowds who didn't care that neither was a great individual performer, and Roadkill couldn't talk other than to say "chickens". I had always figured it was probably a case of them both being short, so they'd look tiny compared to many in the WWE at the time.

    ECW crowds were loud regardless as to who was in the ring, but from what I remember, Doring could play the face-in-peril as well as anybody before Roadkill would get as loud a hot tag ever, before he'd clear house.
    I know Roadkill wound up getting signed to OVW, had a very different look. Doring I'm not sure what the fuck happened to him. I remember he was one of CM Punk's first victories when Punk took out him, Credible, I think Stevie Richards. He just fell off the wrestling map. The last shit I even remember him doing were those Sean Oliver top 5 countdowns talking about best managers, best babyfaces etc.

  61. #61
    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I also think they missed him v. Mike Awesome. That was the feud to make. Champion v. Champion winner take all match where RVD unifies the World and TV title Warrior style. I think they would have gone that route but Awesome bailed to WCW I think before RVD was even hurt.

    Scotty Riggs....or Scotty Anton whatever the fuck. Man that was so lame. I just gave up on ECW after that. I knew RVD was going to keep playing "almost the top guy" forever.
    Awesome taking off to WCW was right around then but can't recall what happened first. That was going to be RVD's crowning moment though.

    Yeah, RVD feuding with one half of the American Males was never going to set the territory on fire. Guy jobbed consistently on TV to the WCW roster and then was supposed to be a threat to the guy that pretty much beat everybody on the ECW roster defending the TV Title.

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    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrod1983 View Post
    Awesome taking off to WCW was right around then but can't recall what happened first. That was going to be RVD's crowning moment though.

    Yeah, RVD feuding with one half of the American Males was never going to set the territory on fire. Guy jobbed consistently on TV to the WCW roster and then was supposed to be a threat to the guy that pretty much beat everybody on the ECW roster defending the TV Title.
    The whole angle was lame. Oh this guy was supposedly RVD's friend. Riggs came over at a time where I think fans didn't want to see any and all talent that either didn't get a push or when they did get a push they still sucked, showing up in ECW. Riggs wasn't a Cactus Jack or a Johnny Polo coming in as Raven. He was just "Scotty Anton", supposed best friend of Rob Van Dam. Wow.

    The only thing we got out of that feud that kicked ass was the first televised Van Terminator.

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    Main Eventer Jarrod1983's Avatar
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    Yeah, I wasn't buying Scott as RVD's "best friend". At the time I hadn't heard anything about those two being pals and it fell flat.

    Van Terminator kicked ass but I will admit I wasn't huge on the name right away. I remember them teasing it and I thought hopefully the move was cooler than the name.

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