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Thread: Rajah's Greatest Ballers of All-Time List

  1. #201
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    5th WOW? Expected him to easily land in the top 3.

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    5th WOW? Expected him to easily land in the top 3.
    Who don't you rate: Magic or Kareem?

  3. #203
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    Joke list. Top 10 all time greats are all Lakers and maybe Jordan as one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Who don't you rate: Magic or Kareem?
    I had Magic 5th on my list

  5. #205
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    I had Magic 5th on my list
    I think Magic is closer to 1 than to 5. Magic is underrated if anything. In the 11 seasons he started and finished, his team made the NBA Finals 8 times and won 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Scott View Post
    I had Magic 5th on my list
    Was Kareem a brainfart or intentional?

  7. #207
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    I had kobe ahead of Lebron but behind magic and Kareem. I somewhat wish I put Kobe higher but I was swayed by all those MVPs and accolades of those other 2 lakers greats.

  8. #208
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    I feel like the top 3 (MJ, Kareem and Magic) + LeBron are another tier above the rest.

  9. #209
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Kobe was a greater basketball player than LeBron James has been to this point, in my opinion. Even though LeBron is the better all around player.

  10. #210
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Kobe was the most devastating celebrity death ever for me. I can't believe he died like that. RIP Mamba.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Kobe was a greater basketball player than LeBron James has been to this point, in my opinion. Even though LeBron is the better all around player.
    What skill at basketball did Kobe have over LeBron? LeBron is a better scorer, a better defender, a better shooter.

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    Amateur PornStar Randolph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    What skill at basketball did Kobe have over LeBron? LeBron is a better scorer, a better defender, a better shooter.
    A better lover

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Free throws

  14. #214
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    What skill at basketball did Kobe have over LeBron? LeBron is a better scorer, a better defender, a better shooter.
    kobe is a better scorer and shooter than lebron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Free throws
    I am not sure that trumps being worse at everything else but you are correct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    kobe is a better scorer and shooter than lebron.
    By what measure? LeBron averages more points and shoots a higher percentage.

    LeBron 27.1(PPG) 50.1(FGs) 34.4(3s)
    Kobe 25.0(PPG) 44.7(FGs) 32.9(3s)

  17. #217
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    By what measure? LeBron averages more points and shoots a higher percentage.

    LeBron 27.1(PPG) 50.1(FGs) 34.4(3s)
    Kobe 25.0(PPG) 44.7(FGs) 32.9(3s)
    by the eyeball measure

  18. #218
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    He definitely took more shots. I will give you that one.

    Volume shooters are my least favorite players ever. I never rate them highly. Harden, Kobe, Melo, AI, etc.

    Not for this all-time list of course, but if we were just picking a starting five, I would strongly consider taking someone like Klay over Kobe. Especially if I had another wing scorer or a PG who dominated the ball.
    Last edited by _me; December 6th, 2020 at 11:25 PM.

  19. #219
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    Is fearlessness a skill?

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    I think LeBron is better than Kobe, but there is no universe where I take Klay over Kobe, doesn't matter who is on my team.

    Also if you want to go by your stats _me

    Kobe 19.5 FGA per game
    LeBron 19.6 FGA per game

    Guess you ain't picking LeBron either.

  21. #221
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Is fearlessness a skill?
    I know exactly what you mean and I would say yes. And that is a great call. Short of MJ, no one believed in themselves as much as Kobe. And that does matter when measuring "greatness". That is LeBron's greatest weakness probably.

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    I think LeBron is better than Kobe, but there is no universe where I take Klay over Kobe, doesn't matter who is on my team.

    Also if you want to go by your stats _me

    Kobe 19.5 FGA per game
    LeBron 19.6 FGA per game

    Guess you ain't picking LeBron either.
    I was thinking long-term fantasy draft/auction strategy. Take Klay last/cheap so you can take 3 great players instead. Let other people chase the name.

    EDIT: That actually sounds fun. After this is done, anyone want to do an all-time fantasy auction/draft? (Maybe a little mini tourney we vote on to see who wins?)
    Last edited by _me; December 6th, 2020 at 11:41 PM.

  23. #223
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I was thinking long-term fantasy draft/auction strategy. Take Klay last/cheap so you can take 3 great players instead.
    Exactly. Kobe is one of those great players and Klay is one of those cheap players. If klay is the best player on your team you’re not winning any titles

  24. #224
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    #4

    Magic Johnson


    Born: August 14, 1959
    Years Active: 1979-1991, 1996
    Height: 6'9 Weight: 225
    College: Michigan State University
    Position: Point Guard
    Career Stats: 19.5 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 11.2 apg, 1.9 spg, .4 bpg, .520 fgp, .303 3pp, .848 ftp
    12x All-Star, 9x All-NBA 1st Team, 4x NBA Assist Leader, 2x NBA Steals Leader, 5x NBA Champion, 3x Finals MVP, 3x NBA MVP, HoF

    Points: 213
    Votes: 14
    Ranked Highest by: Fro, Stan Accy (3rd)

  25. #225
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Part of the reason I voted magic over kobe.... he did all this by age 31 when he had to retire due to HIV.

    what if he never got sick

  26. #226
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    Fairly certain he was the first athlete I had poster'd on my wall..

  27. #227
    Her right to choose… Tyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Kobe was the most devastating celebrity death ever for me. I can't believe he died like that. RIP Mamba.
    When Boston sportsfan says this, that is something. Kobe died this past January and 2020 really went downhill from there.

    To me, Percussion/Me talking about Kobe’s fearlessness is exactly why I will forever be on the Kobe > LeBron train. Kobe essentially blew up a partnership with Shaq that should have been good for numerous other ‘ships because A) Kobe was sick of Shaq’s casual bullshit and B) there was only one ball and it was his. The MJ “I took that personally” clip from “The Last Dance”, Kobe is only other NBA superstar who burned that hot.

    LeBron stabbed the state of Ohio in the back to join Chris Bosh on Dwayne Wade’s team. Kobe would not have done that. How many countless times did LeBron, at 6’8” 260, defer to others at the end of a game? Kobe didn’t do that. Kobe was like “Fuck y’all, I will go 1-on-5 and do this my goddamn self”. Kobe, like Mike, was a straight killer whereas LeBron is not.

    RIP Mamba.

  28. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Was Kareem a brainfart or intentional?
    Yeah I actually totally forgot about Kareem, was convinced I had him 4th. Fucked up there.

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I think Magic is closer to 1 than to 5. Magic is underrated if anything. In the 11 seasons he started and finished, his team made the NBA Finals 8 times and won 5.
    He probably is and I mostly went on me growing up watching MJ, then Kobe and finally LJ to have them my top 3.

  30. #230
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyson View Post
    When Boston sportsfan says this, that is something. Kobe died this past January and 2020 really went downhill from there.

    To me, Percussion/Me talking about Kobe’s fearlessness is exactly why I will forever be on the Kobe > LeBron train. Kobe essentially blew up a partnership with Shaq that should have been good for numerous other ‘ships because A) Kobe was sick of Shaq’s casual bullshit and B) there was only one ball and it was his. The MJ “I took that personally” clip from “The Last Dance”, Kobe is only other NBA superstar who burned that hot.

    LeBron stabbed the state of Ohio in the back to join Chris Bosh on Dwayne Wade’s team. Kobe would not have done that. How many countless times did LeBron, at 6’8” 260, defer to others at the end of a game? Kobe didn’t do that. Kobe was like “Fuck y’all, I will go 1-on-5 and do this my goddamn self”. Kobe, like Mike, was a straight killer whereas LeBron is not.

    RIP Mamba.
    I don't even really like Kobe and his death even hit _me. That afternoon was absolutely surreal.

    Kobe did try to get traded from the Lakers multiple times let's remember though.
    Last edited by _me; December 7th, 2020 at 9:57 AM.

  31. #231
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    I had Kobe above Magic because of that incredible need to be better than everyone else. But with my East Coast bias, I'd take Russell and Bird ahead of any two Lakers (which is hard to say given how much I respect Kareem).

  32. #232
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    Kobe, Magic, Kareem and Lebron... all Lakers.

    Jordan... fuck the Lakers.

  33. #233
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    #3

    Kareem Abdul-Jabbar


    Born: April 16, 1947
    Years Active: 1969-1989
    Height: 7'2 Weight: 225
    College: University of California, Los Angeles
    Position: Center
    Career Stats: 24.6 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg, .9 spg, 2.6 bpg, .559 fgp, .056 3pp, .721 ftp
    19x All-Star, 10x All-NBA 1st Team, 5x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team, NBA RoY, 2x NBA Scoring Champion,
    1x NBA Rebounding Leader, 4x NBA Blocks Leader, 6x NBA Champion, 2x Finals MVP, 6x NBA MVP, HoF

    Points: 214
    Votes: 13
    Ranked Highest by: Percussion, Mr. Boombastic, Fro (2nd)

  34. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    Kobe, Magic, Kareem and Lebron... all Lakers.

    Jordan... fuck the Lakers.
    Why does everyone seem to forget that Wilt was a Laker as well?

  35. #235
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    We're talking about the people who are top 5 in our list.

  36. #236
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Kinda amazing that no one else could ever successfully use the skyhook regularly.

  37. #237
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    It was a terrific shot really. Hell, Magic full on imitated Kareem with it in the Finals. I've seen Olajuwon and even Yao Ming attempt it to some success here or there. Not sure about other big men through the years.

    But Dr. J, Dominique, and Jordan showed everyone how sexy it was to fly and eventually Steph would introduce the idea of taking 3's from across the street and analytics would tell us that only 3's and plays at the rim mattered.. and poof, back to the basket play was gone.


  38. #238
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    I apologise to Kareem

  39. #239
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    It was a terrific shot really. Hell, Magic full on imitated Kareem with it in the Finals. I've seen Olajuwon and even Yao Ming attempt it to some success here or there. Not sure about other big men through the years.

    But Dr. J, Dominique, and Jordan showed everyone how sexy it was to fly and eventually Steph would introduce the idea of taking 3's from across the street and analytics would tell us that only 3's and plays at the rim mattered.. and poof, back to the basket play was gone.

    I just assumed at least one gigantic slow Euro/S American would have mastered it eventually. Some one like Darko probably would have been great at it if he spent 5 years at it.

  40. #240
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Looking back I could see guys like Rik Smits or Avydas Sabonis having a go at it.

    But ultimately I think it's just to Kareem's credit. He made an all-time GOAT level career in part to pulling off a move that no one else could quite do.

  41. #241
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3puppies View Post
    Why does everyone seem to forget that Wilt was a Laker as well?
    Because the quality of teammate/coaching argument only counts if its against Bill Russell or Tim Duncan.

  42. #242
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Glad to see Kareem got 3 here. Sometimes now I've seen lists with him at 6 or so, and it makes me irrational.

    3 is properly rated.

  43. #243
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Because the quality of teammate/coaching argument only counts if its against Bill Russell or Tim Duncan.
    Nobody credits Wilt first and foremost for his rings..

  44. #244
    The Fresh Maker Mazer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    Nobody credits Wilt first and foremost for his rings..
    True. The more accurate answer would be because he played on multiple teams, and you could make an argument that as a player defined by stats, many memories of his most significant ones don't come as a Laker

    Bit of a joke, but also a shot at how we siphon out some players for that, typically if "winning" is among their prime factors or their games weren't as "sexy". I've just always felt it was a bit of a silly knock that isn't universally applied. The mid 80s Celtics and Lakers were amazing talents, but we typically don't siphon Bird and Magic out for the quality of their teammates like we do Duncan or Bill. Just a bit of silliness to me.

    Plus I couldn't resist having cwe see me take another shot at Wilt.

  45. #245
    Intercontinental Champion CWE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mazer View Post
    Plus I couldn't resist having cwe see me take another shot at Wilt.

  46. #246
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Also interesting about the skyhook was that it came about in large part due to the NCAA banning dunking the ball because of Jabbar's dominant use of it. He then simply told college basketball to hold his beer while he developed the most unstoppable shot the game has had.

    Legend shit.

  47. #247
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    #2

    LeBron James


    Born: December 30, 1984
    Years Active: 2003-present
    Height: 6'9 Weight: 255
    Prior to NBA: St. Vincent-St. Mary High School
    Position: Forward
    Career Stats: 27.1 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 7.4 apg, 1.6 spg, .8 bpg, .504 fgp, .344 3pp, .734 ftp
    16x All-Star, 13x All-NBA 1st Team, 5x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team, NBA RoY,
    1x NBA Scoring Champion, 1x NBA Assist Leader, 4x NBA Champion, 4x Finals MVP, 4x NBA MVP

    Points: 229
    Votes: 13
    Ranked Highest by: 3puppies (1st)
    Last edited by Percussion; December 8th, 2020 at 8:26 PM.

  48. #248
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Alright CWE,

    I was waiting for him to come up before I asked.

    How do you leave him off your list? I understand he's still writing his story, but I don't know how there's anything he can do to not be a Top 5 player in NBA history let alone not be one of the 20 greatest.

  49. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    Alright CWE,

    I was waiting for him to come up before I asked.

    How do you leave him off your list? I understand he's still writing his story, but I don't know how there's anything he can do to not be a Top 5 player in NBA history let alone not be one of the 20 greatest.
    Because I never rate players until they are done. Same reason Tom Brady isn't in my top 10 QBs ever. Yet.

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    And if his (James, not Brady) career ended today, he's still not in my top 5.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    Because I never rate players until they are done. Same reason Tom Brady isn't in my top 10 QBs ever. Yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    And if his (James, not Brady) career ended today, he's still not in my top 5.
    Wish you weren’t so fucking awkward, bud...

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    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    And if his (James, not Brady) career ended today, he's still not in my top 5.
    I agree with this logic when it comes to current players. I generally rate them as if their career ended today, where would they be ranked. Because nothing is guaranteed.

    But I would say it’s taking that to an extreme to leave them off your list for that reason. If Lebron announced his retirement tomorrow, he’s top 10. I had him 5th. I think he’s slightly overrated here.

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    And if his (James, not Brady) career ended today, he's still not in my top 5.
    That is just nuts. I have no issues not projecting someone's career. That is why I had so much trouble with Curry and Durant. But LeBron could quit tomorrow and he is AT WORST the fifth best but honestly there is no argument for less than Top 3.

    I have him first.

    I have no idea why the first 6 years of Michael Jordan's career never counts against him. All he did was lose in the playoffs over and over and over. It was so much his reputation that people started to wonder if he would ever win. Now he ONLY won championships every single year…

  54. #254
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    That is just nuts. I have no issues not projecting someone's career. That is why I had so much trouble with Curry and Durant. But LeBron could quit tomorrow and he is AT WORST the fifth best but honestly there is no argument for less than Top 3.

    I have him first.

    I have no idea why the first 6 years of Michael Jordan's career never counts against him. All he did was lose in the playoffs over and over and over. It was so much his reputation that people started to wonder if he would ever win. Now he ONLY won championships every single year…
    Outside of Bill Russell no player ONLY won championships. 6 is a good amount, and he retired after two threepeats which fuels the sentiment that he could have won more if he stayed in the league (which is also something I gave Magic props for earlier). And obviously 6-0 in the finals also helps, just like 4-0 in the super bowl helps Joe Montana’s case despite the obvious flaw of thinking losing in the quarter finals is better for your legacy than losing in the finals.

    But yea the 6 rings and 6 finals MVPs definitely put to bed his early career struggles.

    Lebron is good though. He’s just not a killer on the offensive court like Jordon and Kobe. You can tell me how many PPG he has but if you’re giving him the ball at the end of the game over Jordon and Kobe you’re crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Outside of Bill Russell no player ONLY won championships. 6 is a good amount, and he retired after two threepeats which fuels the sentiment that he could have won more if he stayed in the league (which is also something I gave Magic props for earlier). And obviously 6-0 in the finals also helps, just like 4-0 in the super bowl helps Joe Montana’s case despite the obvious flaw of thinking losing in the quarter finals is better for your legacy than losing in the finals.

    But yea the 6 rings and 6 finals MVPs definitely put to bed his early career struggles.

    Lebron is good though. He’s just not a killer on the offensive court like Jordon and Kobe. You can tell me how many PPG he has but if you’re giving him the ball at the end of the game over Jordon and Kobe you’re crazy.
    If any sport counts, Otto Graham won 7 titles in his 10 years. And made the championship game all 10 years.

  56. #256
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Outside of Bill Russell no player ONLY won championships. 6 is a good amount, and he retired after two threepeats which fuels the sentiment that he could have won more if he stayed in the league (which is also something I gave Magic props for earlier). And obviously 6-0 in the finals also helps, just like 4-0 in the super bowl helps Joe Montana’s case despite the obvious flaw of thinking losing in the quarter finals is better for your legacy than losing in the finals.

    But yea the 6 rings and 6 finals MVPs definitely put to bed his early career struggles.

    Lebron is good though. He’s just not a killer on the offensive court like Jordon and Kobe. You can tell me how many PPG he has but if you’re giving him the ball at the end of the game over Jordon and Kobe you’re crazy.
    I think it is better lose in the Finals than lose in the second round. But that makes me weird for an American sports fan. Just like you did, it is held against Magic and LeBron that they lost so many Finals. They would be rater higher if their teams never made it to the Finals.

    If you count "playoff series won", LeBron is #1 for the great players (trails Derek Fisher by 1 for first all-time; tied with Big Shot Rob.)

    1. Fisher 40
    2. LeBron/Horry 39
    3. Kareem 37
    4. Duncan 35
    5. Pippen/Kobe 33
    6. Magic/Shaq 32
    7. Jordan/Parker 30
    Last edited by _me; December 9th, 2020 at 1:10 AM.

  57. #257
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I think it is better lose in the Finals than lose in the second round. But that makes me weird for an American sports fan. Just like you did, it is held against Magic and LeBron that they lost so many Finals. They would be rater higher if their teams never made it to the Finals.
    Nah you misread me and I’m with you. I mean, a perfect finals record is nice but as I just said there is obvious flaw in that logic. And honestly I didn’t even know Magic was rated lower for that reason. 5-4 is a fine finals record. And 4-6 is fine too.

    I would take 7-1 in the finals over 6-0 for sure. But I would also take 6-0 over 4-6.

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Nah you misread me and I’m with you. I mean, a perfect finals record is nice but as I just said there is obvious flaw in that logic. And honestly I didn’t even know Magic was rated lower for that reason. 5-4 is a fine finals record. And 4-6 is fine too.

    I would take 7-1 in the finals over 6-0 for sure. But I would also take 6-0 over 4-6.
    I would take 4-6 because 6-0 is not 6-0. It is not even 6-4.

    10 Conference Titles and 4 NBA Finals is better than 6 Conference and 6 NBA to me. But I am in the minority.

  59. #259
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    I would take 4-6 because 6-0 is not 6-0. It is not even 6-4.

    10 Conference Titles and 4 NBA Finals is better than 6 Conference and 6 NBA to me. But I am in the minority.
    I am with you to a point. I would take 6-3 in the finals over 6-0 in the finals, with Brady being my closest to home example (different sport but same sentiment). I wouldn’t remove those 3 SB losses from his record.

    Titles are king though, so I’m not taking Lebrons record over Jordan’s, especially having witnessed the era where the east was inferior to the west in almost all of lebrons career and lebron stacked up 4 of those appearances by forming a super team in Miami after getting sonned by the Celtics, who were the other really great team in his conference.

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Yeah, I am not a "titles are king" guy.

    I consider a 2nd place finish exponentially better than 6th place finish for example.

  61. #261
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Well here’s another list for ya. Most playoff points.

    1. LeBron James 7491
    2. Michael Jordan* 5987
    3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 5762
    4. Kobe Bryant* 5640
    5. Shaquille O'Neal* 5250
    6. Tim Duncan* 5172
    7. Karl Malone* 4761
    8. Julius Erving* 4580
    9. Jerry West* 4457
    10. Tony Parker 4045
    11. Kevin Durant 4043
    12. Dwyane Wade 3954
    13. Larry Bird* 3897
    14. John Havlicek* 3776
    15. Hakeem Olajuwon* 3755
    16. Magic Johnson* 3701
    17. Dirk Nowitzki 3663
    18. Scottie Pippen* 3642
    19. Elgin Baylor* 3623
    20. Wilt Chamberlain* 3607

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    Intercontinental Champion CWE's Avatar
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    Wilt Chamberlain holds 72 NBA records. My GOAT forever.

    Including my favorite one...

    Most minutes played per game for a season (48.53)

    Chamberlain's 3,882 minutes played out of the team's possible 3,890 left an average of six seconds of rest per game.

    He also holds the next 6 spots on that list.
    Last edited by CWE; December 9th, 2020 at 7:17 AM.

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    I would rate Kareem and Jordan ahead of Lebron, but Lebron would be #3 on my list. Kobe and Magic would round out the top 5.

    I wish I would've submitted a list now; not as difficult as I originally thought.

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    1. Michael Jordan
    2. Kareem Abdul-Jabarr
    3. Lebron James
    4. Kobe Bryant
    5. Magic Johnson
    6. Larry Bird
    7. Wilt Chamberlin
    8. Hakeem Olajuwon
    9. Tim Duncan
    10. Shaquille O' Neil

  65. #265
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    And finally, The G.O.A.T..

    #1

    Michael Jordan


    Born: February 16, 1963
    Years Active: 1984-93, 1995-98, 2001-03
    Height: 6'6 Weight: 216
    Prior to NBA: University of North Carolina
    Position: Shooting Guard
    Career Stats: 30.1 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 5.3 apg, 2.3 spg, .8 bpg, .497 fgp, .327 3pp, .835 ftp
    14x All-Star, 10x All-NBA 1st Team, 9x All-NBA Defensive 1st Team, NBA RoY, 1x NBA Defensive PoY,
    10x NBA Scoring Champion, 3x NBA Steals Leader, 6x NBA Champion, 6x Finals MVP, 5x NBA MVP, HoF

    Points: 268
    Votes: 14
    Ranked Highest by: Percussion, Chris Scott, Mazer, Pablo Diablo, TimeSplitter, kdestiny, hithit, Randolph, Mr. Boombastic, Fro, Tyson, Stan Accy



    Final tally..

    1. Michael Jordan
    2. LeBron James
    3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
    4. Magic Johnson
    5. Kobe Bryant
    6. Larry Bird
    7. Wilt Chamberlain
    8. Bill Russell
    9. Tim Duncan
    10. Shaquille O'Neal
    11. Hakeem Olajuwon
    12. Julius Erving
    13. Oscar Robertson
    14. Jerry West
    15. Steph Curry
    16. Scottie Pippen
    17. Karl Malone
    18. Kevin Durant
    19. Dirk Nowitzki
    20. Charles Barkley

    also receiving votes: Moses Malone (32 points), John Stockton (28), Kevin Garnett (17), Allen Iverson (16), David Robinson (13), Bob Cousy (12), Elgin Baylor (11),
    Dwyane Wade (10), Isiah Thomas (10), Patrick Ewing (7), John Havlicek (7), Kawhi Leonard (5), Rick Barry (4), Paul Pierce (4), Pete Maravich (4), Reggie Miller (3),
    Russell Westbrook (3), George Gervin (3), James Harden (1), Bill Walton (1), Giannis Antetokounmpo (1), Steve Nash (1), Wes Unseld (1)

  66. #266
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    overall I think our list is solid

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    Me too. Only 3 selections different from my own list.

    I had Elgin Baylor, Kevin Garnett, and Moses Malone instead of Dirk Nowitzki, Karl Malone, and Scottie Pippen.

    And I think we pretty much nailed the top half, though I rate Olajuwon a fair bit higher. But I already made that case and it's all good.

    Great job, fellas.

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    This was fun. Just looking at the list of those also receiving votes from this crowd, you could make a damned good team out of those guys. Given how the game has changed so much over the years, the greats will always be greats. What's fun to think about is who might coach them. And while it doesn't have to be an NBA coach, because some of the college coaches could give some NBA coaches a lesson.

    While my money would be on Red, because he understood


    • “Some say you have to use your five best players, but I found out you win with the five that fit together best as a team.” — Red Auerbach


    I always liked this quote when it comes to basketball coaching -



    • “You can run a lot of plays when your X is twice as big as the other guys’ O. It makes your X’s and O’s pretty good.” — Paul Westphal

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    Chuck Daly would be great. If he could handle the Dream Team, he could handle this team.

    But I would probably pick Pat Riley. Multiple championships with different players and different eras and different cities and different styles. He just wins.

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    Coach K. Universally respected basketball mind and leader. And his long run of coaching the national team has put several different superstar laden combinations under his guidance. I think he'd be perfect for the job.

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    Greg Popavich.

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    What’s next Perc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    That is just nuts. I have no issues not projecting someone's career. That is why I had so much trouble with Curry and Durant. But LeBron could quit tomorrow and he is AT WORST the fifth best but honestly there is no argument for less than Top 3.

    I have him first.

    I have no idea why the first 6 years of Michael Jordan's career never counts against him. All he did was lose in the playoffs over and over and over. It was so much his reputation that people started to wonder if he would ever win. Now he ONLY won championships every single year…
    Jordan does get hit for not making it to as many championships as Lebron. That's one of the LBJers primary arguments. And let's not forget that Jordan was going up against two of the most memorable teams of all-time in the mid 80s Celts (86 Celts are a top 5 all-time team), and the Bad Boys.

    Lebron has done great dragging teams to the Finals. But the East hasn't exactly shone during his run. That's not Lebron's fault, but he has benefitted from it.

    Who you got in the last 10 years in the East that ranks up with the teams Jordan had to go through.

  74. #274
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    Solid list that.

    Maybe do one for best QB, RB, WR, LB...etc. Of course if you like NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hithit View Post
    What’s next Perc?
    Not sure. We've never done baseball..

  76. #276
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    baseball is an interesting one because there is no real "GOAT", so our results would be varied and unpredictable, but I would be in favor of doing best baseball players of the last 40 years (since 1980) or something like that, because of the afore-discussed challenges with ranking guys who played 50 to 100 years ago when we weren't alive. challenging maybe isn't the best word, you can rank them, I just don't have much to say about them. relying on a list of accolades or other people's opinions to rank those old timers isn't all that interesting to me. just my 2 cents. but I do think baseball is good. NFL is a popular sport on this forum but those lists are fairly predictable (though I'm sure QB would still garner good discussion despite the predictability of who will appear).

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    I like covering the all time greats just to compare and contrast their stats, their eras, their accomplishments, and to just give them their props. Just personally think it's fun. But if we can decide on whatever time frame I'd be down for a baseball list. Think it'd have to be fielders or pitchers, not both.

    QB would be very fun imo, I think it'd be similar to this one where the number 1 is decided but the rest would be interesting. But having done football several times already I'm up for something new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    baseball is an interesting one because there is no real "GOAT", so our results would be varied and unpredictable, but I would be in favor of doing best baseball players of the last 40 years (since 1980) or something like that, because of the afore-discussed challenges with ranking guys who played 50 to 100 years ago when we weren't alive. challenging maybe isn't the best word, you can rank them, I just don't have much to say about them. relying on a list of accolades or other people's opinions to rank those old timers isn't all that interesting to me. just my 2 cents. but I do think baseball is good. NFL is a popular sport on this forum but those lists are fairly predictable (though I'm sure QB would still garner good discussion despite the predictability of who will appear).
    Barry Bonds pre steroids is my GOAT.

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    Her right to choose… Tyson's Avatar
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    Cheers Perc, this was fun.

  80. #280
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    I like covering the all time greats just to compare and contrast their stats, their eras, their accomplishments, and to just give them their props. Just personally think it's fun. But if we can decide on whatever time frame I'd be down for a baseball list. Think it'd have to be fielders or pitchers, not both.
    I totally understand that. And normally I agree (like with hoops or NFL) but baseball is sooooo old. Pre WWI and shit. I’m good either way tho.

    Cheers for running this

  81. #281
    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    baseball is an interesting one because there is no real "GOAT", so our results would be varied and unpredictable, but I would be in favor of doing best baseball players of the last 40 years (since 1980) or something like that, because of the afore-discussed challenges with ranking guys who played 50 to 100 years ago when we weren't alive. challenging maybe isn't the best word, you can rank them, I just don't have much to say about them. relying on a list of accolades or other people's opinions to rank those old timers isn't all that interesting to me. just my 2 cents. but I do think baseball is good. NFL is a popular sport on this forum but those lists are fairly predictable (though I'm sure QB would still garner good discussion despite the predictability of who will appear).
    Babe Ruth is the baseball GOAT and anyone who says anything else doesn't understand baseball.

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Babe Ruth is the baseball GOAT and anyone who says anything else doesn't understand baseball.
    In an all-time lineup, Babe Ruth would pitch and bat cleanup.

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    I believe a strong argument for Mays is viable.

    But seeing as I just clearly don't understand baseball I'll concede the whole idea.

  84. #284
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    Jordan transcended the sport, which is exceedingly rare. Only Ali, and possibly Pele, could match that.

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    My list. Mock away at the Brit who doesn't understand basketball:

    1 – Michael Jordan
    2 – LeBron James
    3 – Magic Johnson
    4 – Karim Abdul-Jabbar
    5 – Larry Bird
    6 – Kobe Bryant
    7 – Shaquille O’Neil
    8 – Wilt Chamberlain
    9 – Hakeen Olajuwon
    10 – Julius Erving
    11 – Charles Barkley
    12 – Dirk Nowitzski
    13 – Karl Malone
    14 – Allen Iverson
    15 – Scottie Pippen
    16 – John Stockton
    17 – Kevin Durant
    18 – Steph Curry
    19 – Tim Duncan
    20 – Kevin Garnett

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Accy View Post
    Jordan transcended the sport, which is exceedingly rare. Only Ali, and possibly Pele, could match that.
    Babe Ruth was more famous than the President. He popularized the idea of a using an athlete to sell merchandise. Without Babe, there is no Jordan because there is no NBA or no Nike.

    In WW2, Germans didn't insult FDR; they insulted Babe Ruth. Al Qaeda wasn't insulting Mike on 9/11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    I believe a strong argument for Mays is viable.

    But seeing as I just clearly don't understand baseball I'll concede the whole idea.
    If you think there is any comparison between Mays and Ruth, you don't.

    The reason why Babe is first because he also was one of the best pitchers in the league for 5 years. If you JUST count the hitting (and ignore the pitching and off-field legend), then there is an argument for other people. But you can't discount the credit he gets for literally saving baseball after the Black Sox either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Percussion View Post
    I like covering the all time greats just to compare and contrast their stats, their eras, their accomplishments, and to just give them their props. Just personally think it's fun. But if we can decide on whatever time frame I'd be down for a baseball list. Think it'd have to be fielders or pitchers, not both.

    QB would be very fun imo, I think it'd be similar to this one where the number 1 is decided but the rest would be interesting. But having done football several times already I'm up for something new.
    QB will still be a popular one though, lots will do it. Maybe do a 2 position nfl one running at the same time. Of course if you have the time.

    Great stuff with the basketball one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Accy View Post
    Jordan transcended the sport, which is exceedingly rare. Only Ali, and possibly Pele, could match that.
    Babe Ruth transcended the sport like nobody else, until the person the legendary Howard Cosell called the greatest baseball player he ever saw came along. Jackie Robinson.

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    Who in the holy hell voted for Russell Westbrook?

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    If you think there is any comparison between Mays and Ruth, you don't.
    Sure

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    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Westbrook and Harden won MVPs. Checkmate.

    (I did not vote for either of them)

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    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    Who in the holy hell voted for Russell Westbrook?
    not me but I can see the case. statistically he is a beast. like who's better, Russ or AI?

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    I voted for Westbrook. I admit that I didn't give much thought after the top 10-15 guys. He's a helluva talent but as I said before, if I had to re-do my list I undoubtedly would come up with different rankings. There's not a huge difference between the 15th guy and the 40th-50th of all-time.

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    I'm that cracker hithit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    If you think there is any comparison between Mays and Ruth, you don't.

    The reason why Babe is first because he also was one of the best pitchers in the league for 5 years. If you JUST count the hitting (and ignore the pitching and off-field legend), then there is an argument for other people. But you can't discount the credit he gets for literally saving baseball after the Black Sox either.
    Your condescending attitude and arrogance is really not necessary. I’d say Ted Williams is every bit as good as Babe. Probably coulda been better if he wouldn’t have left for a few years to fight a war.

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    Intercontinental Champion CWE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hithit View Post
    I’d say Ted Williams is every bit as good as Babe. Probably coulda been better if he wouldn’t have left for a few years to fight a war.
    Facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    Facts.
    Ted Williams best season (1946) would have been Babe Ruth's 7th best season measured by WAR.

    And Ted Williams best season was one of the 50 best seasons ever so that is not meant to insult Williams at all. It is just to show Ruth's complete and total domination.

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    Main Eventer _me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hithit View Post
    Your condescending attitude and arrogance is really not necessary. I’d say Ted Williams is every bit as good as Babe. Probably coulda been better if he wouldn’t have left for a few years to fight a war.
    The condescending attitude is because there is no realistic other answer. The consensus that Babe Ruth is the best baseball player ever is much more than the consensus for any other sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _me View Post
    Ted Williams best season (1946) would have been Babe Ruth's 7th best season measured by WAR.

    And Ted Williams best season was one of the 50 best seasons ever so that is not meant to insult Williams at all. It is just to show Ruth's complete and total domination.
    And Barry Bonds 4 best seasons are the best ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CWE View Post
    And Barry Bonds 4 best seasons are the best ever.
    Bonds best season would be Ruth's fourth best season.
    His second best season would be Ruth's 6th best.
    His third best season would be 8th (and tied with Williams' best)

    And that is while Bonds was juicing and Babe was eating hot dogs and drinking beers…

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