Clash of Champions (2020)

[BGMaverick]

Bobby Lashley (c) versus Apollo Crews for the US championship

Street Profits (c) versus Andrade and Angel Garza for the Raw tag team championship

Jeff Hardy (c) versus AJ Styles versus Sami Zayn (c?) in a Ladder Match for the IC championship

Cesaro and Shinsuke Nakamura (c) versus Lucha House Party for the Smackdown tag team championship

Nia Jax and Shayna Baszler (c) versus The Riott Squad for the women's tag team championship

Bayley (c) versus Nikki Cross for the Smackdown women's championship

Asuka (c) versus Zelina Vega for the Raw women's championship

Roman Reigns (c) versus Jey Uso for the Universal championship

Drew McIntyre (c) versus Randy Orton in an Ambulance Match for the WWE championship

[Tyson]

Orton, Riott Squad, Styles to win gold; the other champions retain.

[mth]

Pretty excited for this show honestly. Roman's heel turn and stuff with Jey has been terrific, very eager for their match. Ladder matches are my favorite stip and all three dudes in there can go. Women's tag match is all folks I'm a fan of and I'm all over the Riott Squad feel-good reunion. Bayley's on fire right now. Asuka's always great and Zelina is a fresh opponent who we haven't gotten to see a lot of in-ring. All the dudes in the SD men's tag match are solid so it should be a banger and the RAW tag match is not fresh but again, they can put on a solid bout. Ambulance Match ads something new to a match I'd otherwise not care to see. And Lashley/Crews can also deliver and given where they're at, I'm thinking there might be some kind of development here that alters the course of the feud.

[VHS]

Bobby Lashley (c) versus Apollo Crews for the US championship
Again? Crews has fizzled out already and Hurt Business has sky rocketed lately.

Street Profits (c) versus Andrade and Angel Garza for the Raw tag team championship
No interest, and I love everybody involved. We've seen this a million times already and it feels like Garza/Andrade already split up several times ages ago.

Jeff Hardy (c) versus AJ Styles versus Sami Zayn (c?) in a Ladder Match for the IC championship
Should definitely be good. Hope Jeff doesnt kill himself and Sami... glad he's back. Nitpick though, Sami looks horrible. He needs to go back to wrestler attire.

Cesaro and Shinsuke Nakamura (c) versus Lucha House Party for the Smackdown tag team championship
No interest, but Cesaro/Naka are always money.

Nia Jax and Shayna Baszler (c) versus The Riott Squad for the women's tag team championship
I hate that Nia's been given a title. She makes me not want to watch anything she's involved in.

Bayley (c) versus Nikki Cross for the Smackdown women's championship
Nikki ain't winning.

Asuka (c) versus Zelina Vega for the Raw women's championship
Cool to see Zelina getting a chance w/ the top names. Haven't seen her in ring work lately, hopefully she's progressed.

Roman Reigns (c) versus Jey Uso for the Universal championship
Stoked, so fucking stoked. Roman has been ace since his return and am glued to this feud.

Drew McIntyre (c) versus Randy Orton in an Ambulance Match for the WWE championship
Always hated this stipulation, so meh.

[Bert]

2 matches scrapped. This show should be interesting.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Covid-19-A-Mania's running wild on this show, brother!

[Jarrod1983]

Sami handcuffing Hardy's ear hole to a ladder is a pretty awesome move.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Two matches in, Smackdown! tag and the ladder match, and so far so good.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Not many guys can pull off the "homeless Fidel Castro" look, but Sami Zayn does it.

- - - Updated - - -

Sami Zayn inserts himself into the TNA rerun feud and wins.

Good stuff.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Random observation -- Charley Caruso has enormous arms for somebody who isn't a worker. She obviously never skips arm day.

[Mikey73181]

They should have had Little Jimmy pin Truth, then had Gulak pin the air.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

So, what matches got called off tonight?

Bayley and Nikki Cross is one, right?

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Cue AEW trolls making fun of WWE for copying AEW's booking.

Because a Hispanic woman is challenging a Japanese champion.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

I just feel sorry for Milfy-- err... Mickie James.

Back for three weeks -- Her return match is background filler for a men's angle, then she jobs to Asuka, and then to Zelina Vega.

Oof.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

"Zelina Vega doesn't have a ton of film to watch on her."

Don't worry, I don't think anybody else remembers her run in TNA, either.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Wow... that was a terrific babyface performance by Zelina Vega.

Too bad she was supposed to be the heel.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

"Zelina Vega is, how you say? Like a Chihuahua with rabies. Small, but dangerous."

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Holy shit, just read the news.

I think Covid-19 and Jim Cornette having something in common. Neither of them seem to like women's wrestling.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

The Hurt Business spent all last week on RAW fighting, like heroes, against the Antifa ninjas. But now Lashley's back to being heel against Apollo Crews?

Who needs consistency?

[cmpunkisecw]

Wtf is Cedric?

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Wtf is Cedric?

Jobbing to Covid?

[Donald]

Wtf is Cedric?

A male name.

[Goratrix]

Wtf is Cedric?

He was the owl sidekick from King's Quest 5, right?

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Man, WWE just can't help themselves, can they?

Could have had a good, simple tag-team match and they have to muddy the waters with a bad referee angle.

I think somebody must have seen the two shitty calls during the Buffalo Bills game this afternoon and decided, at the last minute, to make that an angle for this match.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

I like Asuka as much as anyone else, but that whole thing felt like going around your elbow to get to your wrist.

They never needed to have that match to get to Banks' big return.

Just have Bayley win by Covid and have Banks attack her while she's posing and celebrating.

[Mikey73181]

I was just thinking, I’m curious to see how they do Hell in the Cell in the Thunderdome. Usually the arena scoreboard/screen has to go up all the way, then the cell goes all the way up to the scoreboard so it’s out of the way during regular matches. Even if they lift that scoreboard the LEDs get in the way, or it will hang lower than normal, which I guess could be a possibility, because it’s not like it would block fans in attendance view. The cage match a few weeks ago on SD wasn't a hanging cage, it was one they put up during a break. It was still attached to the cables but only to keep it in place. The only other possibility is a different twist on the Hell in the Cell PPV, and every match is a HITC match.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Big Show's back?

Neat.

[cmpunkisecw]

��������very clever bringing back the legends, just wish Flair would’ve come out sooner and put the figure 4 on Orton with his new Dames.

[Sasori]

Randy getting his comeuppance from everyone he fucked with over the summer was a great pay off.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

This is part really solid match, part annoying soap opera bullshit.

With an emphasis on too much of the soap opera, family crap.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

Roman Reigns is officially King of All Samoans, because he punched and clubbed a guy a whole bunch.

[BGMaverick]

Whoever sweetened this crowd noise must have done Wednesday's episode of NXT. Felt like it was more or less consistent but for a larger arena.

Cesaro/Nakamura winning shocked no one. You would think they tease something with someone from LHP winning the singles matchups but that didn't happen.

Hardy, Styles, and Zayn had a pretty good triple threat on Friday and they raised the bar two nights later. This had to be one of the better ladder matches WWE has done in a while. Innovative, fun stuff. That should come as a surprise, in retrospect, with the three guys involved. I love how commentary tried to enhance the acts going on during the match, with guys willing to wreck their body to play defense and make sure someone else who was higher up the ladder wasn't going to grab the titles. I really don't know how Hardy is able to keep doing these spots but God bless him for being able to keep doing them. I'm quite surprised Zayn won the match but he was absolutely brilliant with manipulating things to secure the win. I've enjoyed him quite a bit since he came back. The storyline to bring him back was rather formulaic but he's really pulled it off well, and I'm glad that he's back. He'll be absolutely insufferable now, talking the talk and walking the walk. Should, in theory, set up for a big moment for a babyface to take him down.

That felt like a sudden finish for the Raw women's title match but it fit. Vega showed out really well in the match, and had some pretty good nearfall scenarios. The only frustrating aspect of it all was the booking leading up to the PPV. You pretty much Mickie James as the main competitor, you ran through that and had a two-week push with a relatively unproven opponent. Probably could've done better with the build but at least the match was good. At least it looks like they're willing to make good on it with them possibly continuing.

Lashley/Crews was fine for what it was, but it hit me like the tag match on the preshow. If there's someone worth a damn in creative, they'll be done doing Crews and The Hurt Business. Speaking of tired stuff...

It feels like there's been at least 10-12 variations of Street Profits/Garza and Andrade over the summer. That's just way too much. The Spanish Fly with Garza and Ford looked like it was on the brink of disaster but luckily they kept it relatively together but certainly came at a price but I thought it would be Ford who looked the brunt of the damage. I guess the finish, while confusing, was done to protect Garza as he was from that move. Poor communication to get to the finish, but good on them making sure things didn't get worse.

Kudos to Asuka being a workhorse for the night. At least WWE did right by providing a more-than-worthy alternative due to postponing the original match. Unfortunately, they took the easy way out with a stupid finish so that kind of negated the premise haha. Either way, seems like Nikki, Asuka, or literally anyone was going to be an afterthought because they wanted Sasha to return for her pound of flesh. If we got to HIAC for those two, it should be good.

Once Big Show came out, my enthusiasm for the WWE title match went down a bit. That presented the story that Orton was going to have to pay for his sins for the people he took out before he got to McIntyre. That doesn't exactly help McIntyre's cause look like a strong champion since he got a shit ton of help within the match. It doesn't kill McIntyre by any means, but I probably would've gone without that in a match that's been built as a very personal feud. The windshield spot was pretty cool. HBK's superkick was pretty nice too. McIntyre doesn't have much left on the horizon for challengers but that's going to change with the draft.
Line of the night has to go to Joe: "Orton's leaking but not the way that I'm used to."

Great video package prior to the main event. The stuff between Reigns and Uso should be a note for booking for WWE. It doesn't need a lot of bells and whistles. You can be creative but you don't have get overly cute. This has been fairly straightforward, something people can relate to, and you've got a match you're really excited to see. Reigns has talked about how we're going to see slow changes to the overall aesthetic to his character the and subtle change to his gear was the first change. Really nice touch to see Reigns talk to Heyman in regards to the ref harping on him to stop before the five count because the ref wouldn't want to deal with Reigns directly. Such bravado and it's awesome. They had any and all mics they had available ringside live as hell for this one haha. The match itself played to form, which was fine. Reigns was imposing his will early but Uso found another gear and found a way to make it competitive. What a subtle way to sneak in a heel move by Reigns with the big nearfall off the splash by Uso. That was so subtle be fantastic. The melodrama at the end was very solid storytelling. It's been done to deal but if it's done right, it can be incredibly effective.

You've now established that you've got an incredibly strong heel working the top of Smackdown, one with very few holes to his character, and it's going to take an incredible babyface to take him down. Let's see how Smackdown makes it work.

[cmpunkisecw]

That was good shit!!

I’ll be shocked if Reigns v Rock doesn’t happen at Mania next year.

[Donald]

One of wwe weaker ppvs this year.

[mth]

Good show.

Cesaro/LHP was solid enough and I was glad to see LHP worked out their kinks and didn't show signs of splitting.

Ladder match was dope. Some real wild stuff in there with some creative spots. Loved Zayn's genius with the handcuffing and a ladder cuffed to the ear is amazing. Jeff's really getting mileage out of his piercings. Wonder what the spot with Jeff sliding/laying on the ladder when it hit the corner was supposed to be if it hadn't all gone toppling over...?

Zelina impressed. Really enjoyed the finishing sequence. match served its purpose in establishing that Zelina can actually go in the ring and the post-match attack was a nice way to underline she's a heel despite that gutsy performance. Happy to see these two continue.

Lashley/Crews was fine. I actually thought Ricochet was gonna turn and cost Cres and join HB but alas. That'd have been more interesting that just a straight clean match but I can't complain too much 'cuz I'm a Lashley fan so I like him getting a good solid win, too.

RAW tag title match was decent enough minus that botched up finish.

I hadn't heard about the card changes going nito the show so I spent all night wondering when the Women's Tag Title match was happening and was wondering if I somehow missed it. Shame Cross was also out but I'm glad to take extra Asuka where I can although they really could have forgone the match and just had Sasha attack her and it'd have served the same purpose.

Ambulence match was pretty fun. I didn't even consider the cameo assists from the legends. Beardless Big Show freaks me out. Was hoping/expecting Flair to give Orton a lowblow when he was trying to get Drew into the ambulence but being the driver was pretty amusing. Dig the claymore to the door and the windshield busting. Now let's get Keith Lee into the title scene.

OH MY GOD HEEL ROMAN IS EVERYTHING. Great story that was perfectly executed. Shirtless Roman, finally! And what a difference that change made to his overall aesthetic. Loved Roman just progressively getting meaner and more egotistical as the match went on. Great trash talking. Loved when Roman started talking about how everything belongs to him and he runs it, 'cuz we know it, we've thought it, and now he's embracing it and owning that shit and it's gold. Loved the lowblow kickout. Didn't expect to see Jimmy out there and the addition of him and throwing in the towel was nice. This was the perfect angle to kick off Roman's heel run, the perfect opponent and approach to sell that the man is now a total bastard badass. I am living for it.

[Badger]

mth was the first person I thought of when we got shirtless Reigns!

A mixed PPV in my book. Hurt a little bit with the cancelled matches plus there’s been lots of rematches. Absolutely loved the ladder match finish (handcuffing Jeff’s EAR???) and Roman going into full cunt mode, those two were my favourite matches of the night. Ambulance match was decent with the revenge of the legends. Everything in between was okay but nothing special. Shame about that fuck-up and Garza injury at the end of the Raw tag title match, and with the confusing ad-lobbed finish they may even do the match AGAIN!

[Nash Diesel]

Great show.

I wasn't totally sure about Roman, but that match and that ending sold me. They proved in a month that heel Roman is the shit. Basically wasted 5 years of this man's career trying to make him something he's never going to be and I hope they touch on that in the near future.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm not negative that the women's tag-team title match was scrapped or that the lame Bliss-Bayley match was cancelled. Why? This was another solid ppv from the WWE this year. I'll be honest....I think if these 2 matches were on the show it would have dropped it down a few but I could be wrong.

[Murphy]

Small point in the grand scheme of things, but Drew only just beating Orton despite assistance from Show, Christian and Michaels made Drew look kinda weak. Also essentially gave you the finish because how bloody weak would drew have looked if he had lost?! Quite fun stuff though.

Main event was the match of the night for me.

Rest was pretty meh. Ladder match was pretty cool I suppose, in that we saw some stuff we hadn't seen before. Sami is amazing.

[Nash Diesel]

Small point in the grand scheme of things, but Drew only just beating Orton despite assistance from Show, Christian and Michaels made Drew look kinda weak. Also essentially gave you the finish because how bloody weak would drew have looked if he had lost?! Quite fun stuff though.

Main event was the match of the night for me.

Rest was pretty meh. Ladder match was pretty cool I suppose, in that we saw some stuff we hadn't seen before. Sami is amazing.

He beat Orton clean the last time so I don't see anything weak about the ending. If the last match ended on some bullshit, sure. I loved the interference, Orton's past actions coming back to haunt him.

[Murphy]

He beat Orton clean the last time so I don't see anything weak about the ending. If the last match ended on some bullshit, sure. I loved the interference, Orton's past actions coming back to haunt him.

It was with a roll-up, but yes. Hardly convincing.

I feel the feud still needs another match. But on the other hand, I don't really want to see that. I'd rather both moved on.

[Donald]

Drew's title run is kinda blah, because of lack of audience, I'd rather see orton with the title.

[Chris Scott]

Agreed.

The current situation is perfect for another Orton title run

[Nash Diesel]

It was with a roll-up, but yes. Hardly convincing.

I feel the feud still needs another match. But on the other hand, I don't really want to see that. I'd rather both moved on.

I see zero issue with a roll up beating one of the all time best.

Trust me, they'll have another match. Nobody was really dying to see the ambulance match but I'm sure they'll cross paths again sooner than we expect.

[Badger]

Surprise roll-up when used sparingly and in the right situation and person is effective. Problem is it’s become the default to finishers and they use it way too often even in meaningless matches.

[Donald]

Maybe Orton will be drafted to Smackdown in the upcoming draft and Drew vs. Randy 3 won't happen.

[Badger]

Maybe Orton will be drafted to Smackdown in the upcoming draft and Drew vs. Randy 3 won't happen.

Hell it’s happening Donald. Randy mentioned Hell often enough that he’ll see Drew in Hell. Hell I’d be very surprised if they said to Hell with it and did something else. Hell.

[Donald]

Maybe Randy will start climbing the side of the cell for whatever reason, and then the Great Khali can come out and punch him off. And the Great Khali rips his skin off to reveal Jinder Mahal sitting on Tiger Ali Singh's shoulders, and they both attack Drew. Drew vs. Jinder at Survivor Series, with Heath Slater as the referee.

[Nash Diesel]

Surprise roll-up when used sparingly and in the right situation and person is effective. Problem is it’s become the default to finishers and they use it way too often even in meaningless matches.

For the women sure, but I can't remember the last time a World title match ended with a small package/roll up/backslide can you? I can't even remember the last time a men's match ended that way in general.

That's what stood out in their first match. It wasn't the finisher, it wasn't interference, it was a classic wrestling hold. But of course, it wasn't good enough lol. Just admit it, some of you will bitch regardless.

[Bert]

I can't even remember the last time a men's match ended that way in general.

That's what stood out in their first match. It wasn't the finisher, it wasn't interference, it was a classic wrestling hold. But of course, it wasn't good enough lol. Just admit it, some of you will bitch regardless.

Simon Miller of whatculture keeps track of surprise rollups on his Ups and Down show on youtube. WWE does them all of the time.

6:43 and 9:15 just for an example.

[Nash Diesel]

Simon Miller of whatculture keeps track of surprise rollups on his Ups and Down show on youtube. WWE does them all of the time.

6:43 and 9:15 just for an example.

Does he also keep track of how many finishers are used to win a match?

And what about the World title matches? How many of those wind up where the guy used a backslide? I would imagine rarely.

The problem is, if Drew won with his finisher clean, people would bitch. If he won by interference they'd bitch. If he won by a backslide they'd bitch.

[Badger]

For the women sure, but I can't remember the last time a World title match ended with a small package/roll up/backslide can you? I can't even remember the last time a men's match ended that way in general.

That's what stood out in their first match. It wasn't the finisher, it wasn't interference, it was a classic wrestling hold. But of course, it wasn't good enough lol. Just admit it, some of you will bitch regardless.

Nothing to do with bitching regardless. In the context of the Drew match stand-alone it makes sense. Was just saying they use it so often these days that good stuff like that becomes lost in the shuffle so it doesn’t have as big of an effect because we see them so often. World title match or not.

[Bert]

Does he also keep track of how many finishers are used to win a match?

And what about the World title matches? How many of those wind up where the guy used a backslide? I would imagine rarely.

The problem is, if Drew won with his finisher clean, people would bitch. If he won by interference they'd bitch. If he won by a backslide they'd bitch.

I don't know why you always do this goal post moving thing. You said you don't know the last time this type of thing happened "in general." I've shown you that it happens in general all of the time.

I don't care about the finish to the title match, I was just providing information you were apparently unaware of. I'm sure they'll have a match at hiac anyway.

[Nash Diesel]

Nothing to do with bitching regardless. In the context of the Drew match stand-alone it makes sense. Was just saying they use it so often these days that good stuff like that becomes lost in the shuffle so it doesn’t have as big of an effect because we see them so often. World title match or not.

I think in a World title match it does have a big effect because it doesn't seem to happen that often, if at all (Waiting for another video of 20 World title matches that ended with a backslide this year lol). Honestly I was like, holy shit, they used a backslide in a World title match? That's rare. That fit the whole "outta nowhere" mentality they were going with. It wasn't one of their finishers that hit you out of nowhere it was a basic wrestling hold. One that honestly does not get used. Roll ups, sunset flips, small packages but a backslide? That's unique.

I don't know why you always do this goal post moving thing. You said you don't know the last time this type of thing happened "in general." I've shown you that it happens in general all of the time.

I don't care about the finish to the title match, I was just providing information you were apparently unaware of. I'm sure they'll have a match at hiac anyway.

I wasn't moving the goal posts. My original comment was about the World title match. Go back and read the post. I then said I wasn't even sure when the last time a men's match in general ended that way which you provided a video showing 2 happened on a Smackdown last month. Still doesn't change my original comment about the WORLD TITLE MATCH between Orton and Drew.

I'm sure they'll have a match at HIAC and people will complain about that finish as well. Drew didn't use his finisher, Drew used his finisher too much, Orton used his finisher now it makes Drew look weak or Orton cheated instead of using his finisher lol.

BUT THEY KEEP WATCHING!

[Badger]

I think in a World title match it does have a big effect because it doesn't seem to happen that often, if at all (Waiting for another video of 20 World title matches that ended with a backslide this year lol). Honestly I was like, holy shit, they used a backslide in a World title match? That's rare. That fit the whole "outta nowhere" mentality they were going with. It wasn't one of their finishers that hit you out of nowhere it was a basic wrestling hold. One that honestly does not get used. Roll ups, sunset flips, small packages but a backslide? That's unique.

Oh yeah it definitely fit the story, never was complaining about the finish myself. Fans are generally accustomed/want to see a big finish with a pin or submission in the title matches so when it pops up in a World title match it’s fine and a nice surprise. However I think because they do the “out of nowhere” thing so often (it not as many backslides but definitely with roll-ups) in so many other matches sometimes good stuff like this can get overlooked by fans.

I was trying to make a point why some may brush it off, not speaking about myself.

[Donald]

What's the PPV where they do Champion vs. Champion. Like Brock vs. AJ Styles.

I really don't want to see Drew vs. Roman, and they just had Cesaro and Nakamura vs. Dawkins/Ford. Lashley vs. Zayn would be boring. Asuka vs. Bayley we've seen 59.2 times already.

[Badger]

It’s a shame Umaga is no longer with us because a Roman vs Umaga feud over who gets to head the dinner table would’ve been sweet.

[Nash Diesel]

I fully believe the idea is that they want to build toward Roman v. The Rock @ WM 37 with this whole "Tribal Chief" and "I'm the reason this family eats" mentality. The Rock will then "pass the torch" so to speak.

[Badger]

I fully believe the idea is that they want to build toward Roman v. The Rock @ WM 37 with this whole "Tribal Chief" and "I'm the reason this family eats" mentality. The Rock will then "pass the torch" so to speak.

Not holding my breath on that one. As massive as that would be, would his scheduling plus his Hollywood insurance allow him bumping never mind the pandemic we’ve got going on.

Guess we will see.

[Nash Diesel]

Not holding my breath on that one. As massive as that would be, would his scheduling plus his Hollywood insurance allow him bumping never mind the pandemic we’ve got going on.

Guess we will see.

He said he wanted to wrestle him so there's a positive. I would imagine that even in his head the idea would be to do it at next year's WM. And he's wrestled several times since he's started acting so I don't see an issue now if it wasn't when he wrestled 4-5 times in the last 10 years.

[Badger]

He said he wanted to wrestle him so there's a positive. I would imagine that even in his head the idea would be to do it at next year's WM. And he's wrestled several times since he's started acting so I don't see an issue now if it wasn't when he wrestled 4-5 times in the last 10 years.

Not counting the stuff where there weren’t really matches at all, just in-ring segments and a Rock Bottom really. His last REAL match was against Cena 7 years ago. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here but think the insurance restrictions either may have come in after that or did he even break them?

It’s great that he wants it but I’m erring on the side of caution that circumstances beyond his and WWE’s control could prevent it.

[BGMaverick]

Not holding my breath on that one. As massive as that would be, would his scheduling plus his Hollywood insurance allow him bumping never mind the pandemic we’ve got going on.

Guess we will see.

The logistics of moving forward are certainly in flux. With a lot of things shut down, I imagine the floodgates will open when things can potentially feel normalized again for large companies...whenever that may be.

Be that as it may, I think it's pretty interesting to look at the ramifications of the match. If Reigns loses, then he's pretty much put in his place and potentially culminating this huge turn with a loss to the part-timer of part-timers. That seems kind of off putting in some ways, but that's open to working WWE's style. If Reigns wins, I'm wondering how much that actually levels him up in the hierarchy.

[Nash Diesel]

Not counting the stuff where there weren’t really matches at all, just in-ring segments and a Rock Bottom really. His last REAL match was against Cena 7 years ago. Someone correct me if I’m wrong here but think the insurance restrictions either may have come in after that or did he even break them?

It’s great that he wants it but I’m erring on the side of caution that circumstances beyond his and WWE’s control could prevent it.

It was way before, I think after Mania 20 when he was doing Be Cool.

[Badger]

The logistics of moving forward are certainly in flux. With a lot of things shut down, I imagine the floodgates will open when things can potentially feel normalized again for large companies...whenever that may be.

Be that as it may, I think it's pretty interesting to look at the ramifications of the match. If Reigns loses, then he's pretty much put in his place and potentially culminating this huge turn with a loss to the part-timer of part-timers. That seems kind of off putting in some ways, but that's open to working WWE's style. If Reigns wins, I'm wondering how much that actually levels him up in the hierarchy.

It is an interesting one to look at. Also do they go with a feel-good Mania ending where all is well at the end or does Roman revel in it?

It was way before, I think after Mania 20 when he was doing Be Cool.

Yeah I searched an article after I posted that where a director had a bit of a fit after the Cena match. They may tighten up their stance so even if he wants it, they may roadblock or at least be a lot of red tape to go through if things don’t go back to normal.

Personally I’d love for the match to happen but not getting on the hype train just yet til we know more.

[Nash Diesel]

It is an interesting one to look at. Also do they go with a feel-good Mania ending where all is well at the end or does Roman revel in it?



Yeah I searched an article after I posted that where a director had a bit of a fit after the Cena match. They may tighten up their stance so even if he wants it, they may roadblock or at least be a lot of red tape to go through if things don’t go back to normal.

Personally I’d love for the match to happen but not getting on the hype train just yet til we know more.

It's The Rock, he does whatever the fuck he wants. I wonder if it was the Cena 2 match because that was the one where he tore like 20 muscles and that's why they changed up the whole Lesnar v. Rock angle they had planned.

Oh yeah man I'm not on the hype train but it makes a lot of sense with The Rock just within the last week talking about wanting to have a match against him and the approach they're taking with Roman claiming to be the reason his family is where they are.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

The Rock's got more money than God.

That's what happens when you make $20 million a movie. He can afford to take some time off.

Maybe, since productions are only just not starting to open back up, Rocky might take some time off from making movies until the Covid vaccine finally comes out (remember, he and his family had it) and he'll decide to wrestle Roman Reigns during his time off from making movies.

Before he agrees to "Hobbs And Shaw 2 -- Hobbs and Shaw Harder", he won't have the studio leash on him telling him what he can and can't do.

[Donald]

Must be nice to have more money than a fictional character.

[Badger]

I reckon Scrooge McDuck could give him a run for his money.

[Spudz Mackenzie]

I reckon Scrooge McDuck could give him a run for his money.

There was some article written by an actual financial analyst that outlined which fictional characters had the most money.

Scrooge McDuck was definitely on there, but he trailed behind Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark. I think, per capita, King T'Challa has them all beat.

[Donald]

Must be nice to be an attractive movie star, with lots of money. He says work hard and put the time in, but it's more than just that isn't rocko. It didn't hurt you that you came from a wrestling family, that was a good stepping stone for you. Grew up around charismatic superstars didn't you. Learned from the best. What about someone with no dreams. What the fuck am I supposed to work towards you eye brow raising asshole.

[mth]

I would have had next to no interest in Rock vs. Reigns when Roman was a face but now that he's becoming a top tier heel, I'm far more on board. Passing the torch to face Reigns wasn't gonna do much or mean much but Tribal Cheif asshole badass bastard heel Roman fucking him up and getting that big win would actually be something. And the promos now would certainly be more interesting...

[Nash Diesel]

I would have had next to no interest in Rock vs. Reigns when Roman was a face but now that he's becoming a top tier heel, I'm far more on board. Passing the torch to face Reigns wasn't gonna do much or mean much but Tribal Cheif asshole badass bastard heel Roman fucking him up and getting that big win would actually be something. And the promos now would certainly be more interesting...

Exactly. Face v. Face or trying to make The Rock a heel would have been so boring and forced. But now with Roman having this chip on his shoulder and the way the WWE could intertwine Rock's involvement....I mean, you have to remember The Shield put him through a table. Fast forward a few years later the WWE call on The Rock to try and get Roman @ the Rumble cheered and the look on Rock's face...... I can only imagine the level of promos The Rock will deliver and what Heyman will bring to the table.

[3puppies]

Must be nice to be an attractive movie star, with lots of money. He says work hard and put the time in, but it's more than just that isn't rocko. It didn't hurt you that you came from a wrestling family, that was a good stepping stone for you. Grew up around charismatic superstars didn't you. Learned from the best. What about someone with no dreams. What the fuck am I supposed to work towards you eye brow raising asshole.

To hell with Roman. Now that you've called him out, I wanna see the Rock come back to layeth the smack down on Donald.

The Rock is retired. His injury the last time he had a match cost the studios millions (and millions) of dollars, and his contracts prohibit him engaging in wrestling. I would be shocked to see him return to wrestling, especially if it is not in front of a live audience in a real packed stadium.

[Donald]

Think I hate the Rock more than I hate AEW.

[Nash Diesel]

To hell with Roman. Now that you've called him out, I wanna see the Rock come back to layeth the smack down on Donald.

The Rock is retired. His injury the last time he had a match cost the studios millions (and millions) of dollars, and his contracts prohibit him engaging in wrestling. I would be shocked to see him return to wrestling, especially if it is not in front of a live audience in a real packed stadium.

Like I was telling dude yesterday, that whole "his contracts prohibit him..." was something from around the Be Cool time. He wouldn't come out and say he wants to wrestle Roman Reigns if he wouldn't be able to. And I never heard and can't find a single statement about his injuries after the rematch with Cena cost a studio millions.

Now if you're just assuming that it did, sure. But like I said, I don't think dude would be telling people he would be willing to come back to wrestle Roman if he knew it was never going to happen.

[Badger]

Dude has a name.

It’s maybe one step but a lot can or cannot happen in the next 6 months even if he’s up for it so not getting too hopeful at this stage.

[BGMaverick]

There's a fairly recent example of them teasing Rock doing something towards Mania (four years ago) and it ultimately got shelved and they opted to do something simpler so it's clearly possible things can change, despite desired intentions.

[Nash Diesel]

Dude has a name.

It’s maybe one step but a lot can or cannot happen in the next 6 months even if he’s up for it so not getting too hopeful at this stage.

Honestly I couldn't remember and I was typing so I didn't want to go back and see who it was lol.

Oh yeah man nobody is saying it's in stone I'm just saying it's not something that people think CAN'T happen. There's no Hollywood holding him back. Every other scenario could happen to literally everyone else. Shit we're talking about Roman Reigns, 2 years ago his cancer returned. For all we know Roman isn't going to be active by the end of the month.

There's a fairly recent example of them teasing Rock doing something towards Mania (four years ago) and it ultimately got shelved and they opted to do something simpler so it's clearly possible things can change, despite desired intentions.

No shit. Things change all time especially in wrestling.

[BGMaverick]

Melter's Ratings:

Cesaro and Nakamura vs. Lucha House Party: 2.75
Zayn vs. Hardy vs. Styles: 4.25
Asuka vs. Zelina: 2.25
Lashley vs. Crews: 2.75
Street Profits vs. Andrade and Garza: 2.50
Asuka vs. Bayley: 1.00
McIntyre vs. Orton: 4.00
Reigns vs. Uso: 4.25

[Badger]

Profits/Garza was decent up until the injury and the rushed finish and will give Zelina credit on her part though we all knew there was no chance in hell[/McMahon]

Think those ratings are fair overall though, maybe slightly give the edge to the ladder match as my personal favourite for Hardy’s ear being handcuffed. Genuine shock surprise there.

[Fanny Batter]

I guess it's cool that Meltzer enjoys modern wrestling, but I still find it mad random midcard spotfests are considered on a par or better than something like the Savage/Warrior retirement match. Imagine watching a spectacle like that and putting a Young Bucks or any random ladder match on the same pedestal. Barmy to me.

[Tainted Eclipse]

yeah it's wild. there are so many meltzer-rated 4.75 and even 5+ star matches now that are totally, utterly unmemorable.

[Badger]

Still this is no as bad as how he overrates AEW stuff lol.

Maybe 4’s a tad high for those but still very enjoyable. He ain’t the be all and end all.

[Fanny Batter]

Daniel Bryan never having one is an in joke I'm presuming?

[Nash Diesel]

I guess it's cool that Meltzer enjoys modern wrestling, but I still find it mad random midcard spotfests are considered on a par or better than something like the Savage/Warrior retirement match. Imagine watching a spectacle like that and putting a Young Bucks or any random ladder match on the same pedestal. Barmy to me.

I can agree with this to an extent. His ratings have no real criteria. I mean, he gave Roman Reigns v. Jey Uso 4 stars. I didn't think that was a 4 star match in terms of in-ring quality. I'm sure he'll give matches that are 4-5 star based solely on what they do in the ring. But if there's more to it, that emotional trip, then he'll also factor that in so if you're giving a 2 star in-ring performance but the story being told is great, it might wind up 4-5 stars. That's why he gave Omega v. Okada that 6 star treatment. It went beyond JUST in-ring action which I think a lot of people tend to think that's what he's judging every match on. He's not.

This is not a defense of Meltzer, it's just me saying people have different opinions and different ways of judging a wrestling match. Personally, I think Diesel v. HBK at IYH Good Friends Better Enemies was a 5-star match. I think Bret Hart v. Shawn Michaels Iron Man was a 5 star match. 2 totally different matches, different in-ring deliveries, etc. It's why some will call Hulk Hogan the GOAT and in the same breath respect why some would say Ric Flair.