This.Originally Posted by BBF
This.
Yeah that looks about right IMO.
Genuinely if we do a 16 or 18 team league with that structure there will be very good players still available in the bottom half of round three.
The way you see it is you get both the 1st draft, your choice of keeper and then the first euro draft?
Or are we back to euro anytime before 3rd
Everyone gets a keeper, that's not any more of an advantage to any particular person.
Weird that you're criticising me for proposing something that's been in place without dispute for like ten years. I'm actually proposing something to reduce reward, I just don't think it should be eliminated entirely.
Of course it is. Theoretically the team that came first should have better players than those who came 20th so will be able to keep a better player, draft a better player AND have a Euro pick.
The bottom teams have some good players they could keep, I didn't bother last year. And as mentioned, if there's keepers and Euro players in play and round 2 goes 1-20, there'll be some keeper-worthy players available for draft in round 2.
That doesnt matter! They generally will still not be as good as the ones at the top.
I am all for rewarding people who do well the season before. Rewarding them 3 times is the issue.
But what I'm saying is that if people take up the reward of Euro players and keepers, it means very good players will be available in the equivalent draft positions, especially if we reduce the league.
And as UK Blue and others have pointed out, it really doesn't matter anyway. Drafting is often shite, Euro players bomb, people get injured. It's really not that hard for someone at the bottom to get to the top if they're active, regardless of any supposed advantage.
Well Griffiths is gonna serve me very well as my keeper!
Summary on what has been discussed so far and my quick thoughts:
- One league of 16 teams
One league is always good, 16 is a decent number but we shouldn't turn people away if they are keen and we think they will remain active. Past legends (and known active players) like Jay, Christopherson or Dave should be welcomed back if they are interested. We will obviously need an even number for the league but 16, 18 or 20 are all fine (so long as everyone remains active).
- Eight players per squad
Great as it'll reduce last minute transfers a bit, due to the extra option in each squad and fewer players on the market (although still more than last year due to the reduced league).
- Extended RFA Cup competition beginning with group phase
Great.
- League and RFA Cup games played separately (not over the same gameweek)
Great.
- The second round (keeper round) of the draft becomes a 'supplementary' round, starting from the bottom (16-1) - Third round of the draft also starts from the bottom (16-1)
This seems fair considering the second round isn't a proper round. However this (along with the change below) will effectively gives the lowest placed Euro teams first choice of the Euro players (none will be picked first round, few if any second round). I'm not sure that Torn or sof (or myself) deserve that more than Andy.
- Euro players must be selected by the end of the third round
I'm not sure this will have the desired effect. Late Euro picks have a tendency to bomb (Milik, Jonas). People are more likely to take a risk when picking Euro player late in the draft, by limiting to the third round this will increase the likelihood of safe, low-risk picks. Euro players bombing is hilarious and good for the game.
But I'm happy to see how all of the above plays out.
We still need clarification on trade rules. Also what now happens with the MMH Cup? (Andy, MMH and sof are still in it).
MMH Cup just continues until there's one person left then starts again.
MMH Cup keeps going next season.
What's the reward for winning?
A Euro player or an additional squad pick usually.
A nine man squad would be a bit ludicrous. Maybe an additional Euro player but one less squad place?
Is it draft time yet?
It was yesterday mate.
I haven't finished my draft list yet. Spreadsheet is mostly up and ready for actual stuff soon though.
My list is... extensive. 215 names.
Are we any closer to an agreed list of players/format for next season? If we're splitting tables/new fixture setup etc then I'll need time to sort the sheet out.
(FYI https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...?usp=drive_web)
I haven't started a list yet guys and with life may not get very far into one
The forums are a shit show at the moment. Can we sort some RFF stuff out and do something positive?
Kinda busy with other mod stuff right now....
But yeah get the ball rolling and will get something sorted this week.
The sheet is in progress, who are the current teams? I think I count 16.
Torn
Andy
BBF
UK Blue
SOF
Alex
Reech
MMH
Mik
Chris Scott
Shelton London
Beefy
Badger
Hurley
Mikey_Jones
Peter Griffin
Champions League coefficients
Four conferences of four.
Perfect.
So things we need to sort are:
- Confirmed players
- Do we switch league formats?
- Are we playing with the same rules re: Euro players?
- Are we changing the draft format at all?
I'll send a PM out to the people above and hopefully we get a tally by the end of the week.
I suggest we do a cup like that as a trial run. We can afford to lose a couple of Euro places in the league now with the smaller size so we can reallocate them to a couple of cup competitions and give them some meaning.
Right PM sent. PLEASE ANSWER THESE FOUR QUESTIONS. We'll sort these out first then go a little deeper.
1) Are you playing this year?
2) Do we stick with the same league format or switch to a 'conferences' style?
3) Do we stick with the same rules for Euro players or restrict them to a certain round in the draft?
4) Do we stick with the normal draft format (ie snake draft, 2nd round keepers) or change things slightly?
I'm not answering the first question until I know the answers to the other three.
I'm pretty sure we agreed (or got close to an agreement) on how the draft would look when it was discussed a couple of weeks ago.
Do I answer here?
Last edited by Reech; June 28th, 2017 at 12:10 PM.
1) Are you playing this year?
Yes
2) Do we stick with the same league format or switch to a 'conferences' style?
Same format with 16 teams
3) Do we stick with the same rules for Euro players or restrict them to a certain round in the draft?
Must be drafted within first 3 rounds
4) Do we stick with the normal draft format (ie snake draft, 2nd round keepers) or change things slightly?
Keep it the same with the second round removed from the snake, as previously discussed.
YES PLEASE ANSWER HERE REECH xx
I did.
Aye, I think we're close to almost everything really but I thought I'd give everyone the chance to have a voice before we continue especially as we'll need to be drafting in 4/5 weeks.
Agree with this
I would suggest that would be fine.
I think this is as close as we're getting to what I want so I'll go for it
We did. lll post the overview wehn I am sat at a pc that can cope with it.
1) Are you playing this year? Yes
2) Do we stick with the same league format or switch to a 'conferences' style? One big league, revamped cup with group stage
3) Do we stick with the same rules for Euro players or restrict them to a certain round in the draft? Same rules, but if we change then must be picked by end of the fourth round
4) Do we stick with the normal draft format (ie snake draft, 2nd round keepers) or change things slightly? Second and third rounds start from bottom of draft (16-1)
Last edited by UK Blue; June 28th, 2017 at 2:40 PM.
121 names on my provisional list
118 of them play for Barnet though.
There should be 0 players from barnet on anyones list
You double bluffing wanker
seriously. akinde is my keeper and no one else scores for us
1) Yes
2) Conferences
3 and 4) Keep things as they are
Agreed on this.
I've zero interest in another season like the last few.
2) Do we stick with the same league format or switch to a 'conferences' style?
Four conferences of four teams. Six team play-offs (four winners + two wildcards).
3) Do we stick with the same rules for Euro players or restrict them to a certain round in the draft?
No strong preference. Maybe make them need to be picked in the 'new' first three rounds
4) Do we stick with the normal draft format (ie snake draft, 2nd round keepers) or change things slightly?
As discussed, six round snake draft with supplementary first round picks for teams who decline to take a keeper.
How did you do the pots?Champions League coefficients
Two names on my list at the moment. 60 odd picks before my second pick or more if we do Euro players in the third, feels weird not having a list.
pot 3 has city twice btw
I'll more than likely play, unless something drastic happens here.
I'd be interested to see how conferences work. Schedules will have to be a main deciding factor for me, as well as conference grouping. Happy enough either way on this one, though.
Euro players in 3rd round only.
Draft ISQ
A really sophisticated coefficient
I'm at a loss as to who that was meant to be. I might just put myself in.
I figured I'd make pot 1 over Rosk. But I also assumed the coefficient had to do with placing, so I actually have no idea.
I agree with these two.
When would we be drafting btw. List may be getting started soon and when do we name keepers?
Id propose a draft date of 24th July? Partly selfishly as I won't be around from the 31st- 8th august but that gives us a month to get things in order now and then 10 days before the season starts
Last edited by BBF; June 29th, 2017 at 6:45 AM.
I think that's pretty solid as a fair amount of pre-season games will have happened then so solidifies the picks.
BTW I'm happy to go with the majority on the rules. I would go a bit further but not looking to strong arm it. I'm not opposed to conferences etc as I think it might be interesting to try it for a year.
Really stupid question but could conferences be the 'cup'? so it's a parallel competition almost and we see how it may work out if it became the primary league?
I think that is the general concensus for this year. a properly structured cup competition to run along side the league to see if it's got legs.
7 or 8 player squads we probably want to ask as well?
8 man squads were confirmed by MMH already and many people have seemingly liked the idea of a group based cup to run alongside the league
COME ON SOF
MMH DOESNT RUN THIS GAME ANYMORE MATE. THE COMMUNITY DOES
I knew about the cup but wasn't sure it was the exact same as the divisions piece and running that many games or more like CL with 6 games and then knockouts
As the person who runs the cup I'm not keen on it being group based. All Cups should always be straight knock-out. The format is diluted as soon as you mess with that and it becomes another tournament that the best team is more likely to win.
I'd be in favour of doing both.
16 team league = 30 games
RFA Cup (straight knockout) = 4 games
New Cup (with group stage) = 6 games
We have approx 40 gameweeks to play with. We may need to include a couple of international weekends, but with 8 man squads and all games counting I don't see a problem with that.
Its an additional cup. It would not replace the RFF cup. Imagine it as the Checkatrade or something.
Also the RFF cup is a shambles so we don't want you to run the new one is what we are saying
I'm sorry that was a bit rude I'm just saying it might be better to have someone a bit more detail orientated on it like Peter Griffin
Jay never returned my calls
1) Are you playing this year? YES
2) Do we stick with the same league format or switch to a 'conferences' style? SAME LEAGUE
3) Do we stick with the same rules for Euro players or restrict them to a certain round in the draft? SAME
4) Do we stick with the normal draft format (ie snake draft, 2nd round keepers) or change things slightly? STAY WITH SNAKE DRAFT
Last edited by Chris Scott; July 1st, 2017 at 4:11 PM.
So I take a break due to a nasty allergic reaction to some muppet and I'm retired then?
I'm sulking now you twats, sulking.
Nah, just let me know if you need someone down the line.
I just based my list on Alex's list. Blame him.
In.
Dont care.
Dont care.
Dont care.
Dont care.
Dont care.
Won't be the first time...
Ok So am i right with this proposed draft order./process....
Keepers picked before the draft, anyone not taking a keeper goes into the supplementary draft at the end of the first round (in the same order).
Euro Players must be taken by the end of round three.
So lets say its an 8 team league (Its easier for me this way...)
1. Beefy (Keeps Harry Kane)
2. Torn (No Keeper)
3. Mik (No Keeper)
4. Reech (Keeps Alexis Sanchez)
5. Alex (Keeps Romelu Lukaku)
6. SOF (No Keeper)
7. BBF (No Keeper)
8. UK Blue (Keeps John Akinde)
So the draft would look like this....
Round 1
1. Beefy
2. Torn
3. Mik
4. Reech
5. Alex
6. SOF
7. BBF
8. UK Blue
Round 1 Supplementary
9. Torn
10. Mik
11. SOF
12. BBF
Round 2
13. UK Blue
14. BBF
15. SOF
16. Alex
17. Reech
18. Mik
19. Torn
20. Beefy
Round 3
21. Beefy
22. Torn
23. Mik
24. Reech
25. Alex
26. SOF
27. BBF
28. UK Blue
End Of Euro Window.
Is this what some of us are suggesting?
I must admit I dont mind this.
I think that works pretty well if I'm honest. I'd be behind that.
Rosk will probably come back anyway so add Rip and make it 18.
Bingo. retains the 'second round' value of the keeper but eliminates the issue of the snaking of the abbreviated second round which disadvantages those at the bottom of the league.
Also I'm definitely in for keeping Harry Kane
Ok you all have 48 hours to object/bring up any issues to this new draft plan, if we hear nothing else we shall go with that.
I'm going to try and get all of the rules down as part of the spreadsheet over the next couple of weeks but i'll miss plenty so just point things out and I'll add them in. I'll start on Tuesday as I've a few days off.
Sounds good, just PM me with any questions/clarification needed etc.
I will, without a doubt, send you at least 6.
Once this 48 hours has expired can we sort out trades next btw?
Start the discussion now.
What you got?
Might as well just ban them. Not worth the grief.
There was plenty of talk about restricting trades moving forward, specifically restricting the amount made between two teams in one season. There was also a conversation about allocating each team a 'trade budget' where trades cost a certain amount.
Do people want to:
a) keep things the same
b) Restrict trades between the same sides per season (and if so how many)
c) allocate a budget to each team (and if so how many trades are allowed per team per season)
d) ban trades entirely
e) SOMETHING ELSE. SUGGEST SOMETHING
Aren't they the same 14 man squad anyway?
c)
5 trades each. No idea how we track that.
Honestly if trades are that bloody irritating ban them.
However I guarantee that there will be a loophole discovered and abused by week 5, which will probably be even more irritating.
The best way would possibly be to allow X trades per team per season and just let them go, or allocate each player an arbitrary value and only allow 'balanced' transfers, that puts a lot on someone unless we agree on one place to take the values from, which would be difficult considering the different leagues used.
Over-engineered bollocks. Trades are great. You're just jealous.
I dont want to eliminate trades entirely. Some trades are great, some are also incredibly tedious with the resulting meltdowns that come after them.
No matter what though it wont eliminate collusion where someone can drop a player only for another one to snap them up straight away so maybe that needs looking at. Like a 48 hour window for dropped players or something.
I'd really hate there to be a window like that (which would be necessary to have waivers). Jumping in and nabbing a player the second they're dropped is a joy in this game even if you end up dropping the player yourself two weeks later.
Could people just not collude with each other? It really isn't that difficult.
I think leave trades alone.
Dropping of players and getting them is frustrating but the 48hr waiver is a bit annoying as well. I think a few of us know there might be a silly drop coming close to 3.00pm on a saturday and are keen to swoop them up. With the 48hr thing is it first come first served? A waiver system? Something else. I don't want it to get more confusing as to what's happening and what isn't.
We saw it with the time limit on dropping and picking a player up again etc.
Did we get a definitive on that btw? You can drop a player you've signed whenever you want but you can't resign a player for a week or something?
It was once the game week was over. Stuff like that will be clarified/altered in the rule book.
I dont want a window for trades, as Beefy said it would be nice of no collusion happened but we know it would.
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