I know the opportunity for a superfight would be there should Johnson continue dominating and Garbrandt fend off TJ and Dominick one more time. Undefeated young killer vs the number 1 p4p fighter in the world, champ vs champ would be an easy sell even to headline a ppv. Still does no favors for the 125 division though, it needs some new blood.
You ever see Aisling Daly? Yeah, not fine.Originally Posted by percussion13
Fallon Fox?? Gabi Garcia in full on make up/photoshop mode is about as low as I go homey.
really wanted to see Cain vs. Werdum II and the winner fight Stipe
we might somehow end up with Cain vs. JDS III in all of this for the belt somehow in 2017
IV.
Somehow in 2017? These dudes aren't exactly Big Nog v. Fedor lol. With that said, we'd actually be looking at Cain v. JDS IV
I feel like it was a decade ago when I saw them fighting and Cain taking years off JDS's career
and yes you are right, I meant IV
Cain/JDS 4 would be so awful and a waste of Cain's yearly fight.
The one upside is by the time Cain/JDS 4 would happen, it'd be no earlier than 2018 and that'd be about 4 1/2 years removed from their last fight. But yeah, Cain barely gets to fight once a year, let's try to get him something original for 2017-IF he even fights. There is not one fighter who I could say has had their legacy "wasted" like Cain. His career will for sure be littered with a lot of "what if's?" WHAT IF he had been healthy this entire time....where would his legacy/career be?
He'd be the HW GOAT, no doubt in my mind.
Right now he would destroy prime Fedor. Cain has made being a fan very frustrating.
It's apples and oranges though, when Fedor was prime someone like Cain couldn't have existed because there wasn't the facilities in place to train someone to make them as well rounded as Cain is. The likes of Fedor and Cro Cop and Big Nog built on the sport to the point where training facilities went full time in specialising in MMA and people who might've traditionally moved into other sports started taking on MMA.
However, Fedor never lost to anyone in his prime. People quite rightly talk about how the heavyweight division is terrible now, but the reality is that most of the top fighters from today would beat most of the top fighters from yesteryear because...see above. However, people like Arlovski, Hunt, Barnett...they'd still be up there long after their prime years were over. In his Prime Fedor beat ALL the top competition around him, no exceptions. He pretty much fought them all and pretty much beat them all. Cain didn't. You can make up whatever excuses you want, whether it be a lucky JDS punch, or not training at the right altitude for long enough against Werdum, but the simple fact is that he had a couple of bad days and got taken out with relative ease both times while he was in his prime years...that never happened to Fedor.
Cain shouldn't really be anywhere near the title picture until he can demonstrate that he can get through at least two training camps and fights in a year. It would also be foolish to put him in a fight that kills off a contender when he might do that and then quite likely be out for another year again, even more foolish to let him do that with a belt. I'd give him a tune up against the likes of Arlovki or Struve and then a 'contenders' match against someone not yet in the title picture like Werdum or Overeem. That gives time for JDS for Stipe to work itself out, gives contenders like Ngannou and Lewis to see if they can get another win or two under their belt and would also mean if any of them beat Cain they jump into title contention too.
Interestingly, is Daniel Cormier flying under the radar as a potential two division champion? If he beats Rumble then there isnt a lot left for him at light heavyweight until Bones proves that he can make it to fight time and do we really doubt that he couldn't on his day beat everyone at heavyweight? He would be faster down there, we know already that he has power at that weight, if he can take Rumble's best shots then he can take anyone's and he would be the best wrestler in the division too.
I think with Cain and the talks of him being in the conversation with Fedor is that when Cain fights, we see all the things that put him in that argument regardless of activity...but on the flipside it is his inactivity that has people making great points like the one you are Mik.
I don't think his largest point was even about the inactivity though, at least not in terms of matching up hypothetically with Fedor. It's about the leveling up of the game that a guy like Fedor can't reasonably be held to the standard of, and who in fact can actually be given credit for bringing the current standard toward. Had Fedor been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Cain he may have trained specially in ways similar to Cain and have been able wax him on ability. Had Cain been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Fedor he may never have been taught the rounded techniques we see from him today and been dealt with all the same.
Fedor ran the only table he can be held accountable for and was on a level playing field with everyone on that table. Cain hasn't.
Last edited by percussion13; March 9th, 2017 at 11:21 AM.
I did say Mik had great POINTS, plural.
I know you suck at fantasy booking but that's all Mark was initially doing. We're all educated MMA fans around here, so when someone fantasy books say Fedor v. Cain V, you can bet we're not comparing it verbatim, we're not going "Well but then you have to figure this because it was 2003 then and Cain did this thing that nobody really knew until 2008" it's fucking boring to think that way and again, you suck at looking at things from a fantasy booking point of view, just like the thread I made where you couldn't grasp the basic concept of fantasy booking fights like Mark Coleman v. Kurt Angle, you just can't put yourself in the mind frame of a WHAT IF scenario....
See me personally, I think a Prime Fedor could beat anyone in the HW division today. Just like Prime Anderson Silva could beat anyone at MW today. There are fighters who were so far ahead of the game that's why they were so dominant. So it's not exactly difficult to think that ok you take Prime Fedor, who was definitely more advanced than guys like Coleman, Ken Shamrock, Frye, etc. and you put him against a healthy Cain V, I think Fedor has a great chance of winning because he was that good. There isn't this huge talent gap like say someone going "Royce Gracie 1993 could be a champion at 170 today!" Fuck no he couldn't, the evolution of the sport was too big from his peak to what is going on today.
Do away with all the particulars like time travel lol, no time for that on the boards P.
Mik and percussion are right and I concede my original point. Not really fair to compare them I suppose.
And there is plenty of time for hypothetical (ie 'time travel', wtf) discussion on this board.
If you agree that there is plenty of time for hypothetical discussion why are you backing off on your original point? Your original point was simply you thinking Cain would smash a Prime Fedor if Cain stayed healthy. That's not hard to imagine because imo, Prime Fedor is still a good fighter in 2010-2017 because he was so far ahead of everyone that was considered great at that time. Big Nog was great, Cro Cop was great, Fedor was the next level. Do you agree that Prime Anderson Silva could still be champion today?
I was favoring Fedor.
And honestly go fuck yourself with all the silly, unnecessary hostility.
Nobody cares if you favor Fedor or not in this conversation, has nothing to do with anything. You have thin skin holy fuck.
I was saying that regarding the fantasy booking aspect. To which you seemed to greatly care about.
Are you on heavy medication by any chance?
Because I'm not a close-minded buffoon and Mik made a really good point. You thought so as well. Jesus.
But that still doesn't mean you were WRONG in your post. Notice my post after Mik I didn't exactly totally agree with him, I just said that I could see the flipside of what you were saying and how great points can be made from it. But again, that doesn't mean you were wrong.
Keep up with the insults though, I'll wait for another pity party post in the Asylum where we all have to forget how much of a wonderful human being you are.
When I said in the other thread that you were winding Mark Hammer up, I was referring more to the habit that you have of being a condescending smart arse with the way that you speak to people on here, which is now being quite clearly demonstrated in this thread too. If you have to keep telling people to get a thicker skin, maybe the answer is more that you need to wind your neck in a bit...and you do, so wind it in. Of course people are going to keep bristling and getting annoyed when you're constantly talking down to them, give it a rest now please.
I'd take a step back and realize that the list of people I tend to get into spats with is a very very small list. Those people have it coming, you're no saint either and show me where I'm calling people names and to go fuck themselves because I can't handle a disagreement or getting called out on my stupid shit. When I get called out, I take it in stride and we have fun with it. You better run it back and make these comments known toward Mark and P13 as well, don't single me out just because those 2 are getting their panties in a bunch over something so fucking stupid lol.
I disagree, I think I was WRONG.
No mate, this isn't a discussion between me and you where you im telling you something to open a dialogue and hear your point of view and you're defending yourself and then telling me what to do. This is me telling you that you're being a little too obnoxious and to dial it back. If I think it's a case of other people needing to toughen up, I'll tell them that, this isn't a case of that. Mark Hammer probably gets warned more than anyone else in him and I DID tell him to not overreact, so I don't really need your input there. The list of people ON this forum is very small, stop talking down to people, its as simple as that. I'm not interested in any further discussion on this.
a prime Anderson Silva destroys the MW division of today in a 5 round fight. His only glaring weakness was well rounded wrestlers, but in a 5 round fight I believe he would find a way against anyone
a prime Fedor still has a good chance of getting TKO'd or sub'd by guys like Stefan Struve
Last edited by Spedizzo; March 13th, 2017 at 9:02 AM.
I think any Heavyweight, no matter how good, has a good chance of getting finished, that's just the nature of the division. A prime Fedor in 2017 UFC would be World champion at least once. I think he would be like a Daniel Cormier or Cain. Not a big big guy but he comes in with that grappling and heavy hands and would wreck a lot of guys just like he did with almost virtual ease back in the day.
Lol Spedizzo has undergone a recent gimmick change and I must say that I like it.
I don't agree that prime Silva would beat Weidman or Romero though. World-class grapplers with high fight IQs and deadly striking. I'll probably get called a racist for this but Silva did fight nothing but idealistic style matchups for his entire run as champ, except maybe Chael who has a history of in-fight brain farts.
Last edited by Mark Hammer; March 13th, 2017 at 1:58 PM.
Making an educated opinion versus the norm, naw you won't get called a racist lol. I mean what you described Weidman and Romero is basically Dan Henderson when Silva beat him. I mean, did Weidman actually ever truly beat Anderson Silva?
"vs the norm" ie pulling for Weidman. Anyways...
Hendo was never the ground threat that Weidman/Romero are, and really only had his H-Bomb right hand whereas Weidman and Romero both have a more versed striking attack; even then he clobbered Silva in the first round and at that time would have beaten him 5 times out of 10.
Last edited by Mark Hammer; March 13th, 2017 at 3:18 PM.
Ah, I would say when Hendo fought Silva he was gradually becoming the guy who relied on that H bomb and really nothing else. But this was still the guy who went on and beat some really tough guys still in their prime like Shogun. I mean in reality, Hendo won that first round against Silva by taking him down and controlling him. Really anyone with decent takedowns are going to have that advantage over Anderson, no matter the era.
If Anderson would struggle against the top 2-3 guys in the division then that just means Anderson's still a pimp. He SHOULD struggle because a prime Anderson was about 5-6 years ahead of everyone else so it would all average out and he would still be a threat, he'd still be a champion, he'd still be someone who could rule the division. That doesn't mean Romero and Weidman wouldn't lose to him, doesn't mean they couldn't beat him either.
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