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Thread: 2017 NFL Thread

  1. #1
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    2017 NFL Thread

    The Patriots are your 2016 NFL Champions. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick cement their place as GOATs by pulling off a miracle comeback for title #5 but now we turn the page to 2017 and begin anew.

    Key Dates
    February 28 - NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis.
    March 1 - Deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
    March 9 - Beginning of free agency and league year.
    April 27 - NFL Draft, Philadelphia.
    August 3 - Hall of Fame Game (start of preseason)
    September 7 - Regular Season Opener, Foxboro.

    Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
    Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB
    Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety
    Kirk Cousins, R-words QB
    Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR
    Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB
    Kawann Short, Panthers DT
    Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE
    Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE

    Opening Survey:
    Who will win Super Bowl 52?
    Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total?
    Which new head coach will be the most successful?
    Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now?

  2. #2
    I'm that cracker hithit's Avatar
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    First pick in fantasy would be David Johnson. GB wins SB 52. Cleveland has to improve the most, be hard for them not to. The hc one, not so sure. I'm leaning towards the Rams guy though.

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    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    I think Jaguars have the best shot of improving the most.

    Top fantasy player is either my man DJ or Le'Veon, I lean David though.

  4. #4
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    Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
    Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
    Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
    Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
    Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Leaves and joins the Eagles
    Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Stay
    Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Stay
    Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Stay
    Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Signs with another team

    Opening Survey:
    Who will win Super Bowl 52? - New England, the youth on their team have that taste of blood now
    Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? - my gut says Oakland falls back to 8-8, but I also think LA Rams will get to 8-8
    Which new head coach will be the most successful? - Not a coach, but Coughlin will thrive the most in his role
    Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? - David Johnson, if Ben stays in Pitt, then Bell

  5. #5
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    Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
    Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
    Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
    Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
    Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Titans
    Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Tagged
    Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Tagged
    Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Stay
    Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Miami


    Opening Survey:
    Who will win Super Bowl 52? Pats
    Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? Chiefs come back down.
    Which new head coach will be the most successful? Vance Joseph, if they get the QB thing sorted out.
    Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? David Johnson
    Last edited by TimeSplitter; February 8th, 2017 at 10:09 AM.

  6. #6
    Main Eventer
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    The Titans finished above .500 this past season, 9-7.

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    50/50 Booker TimeSplitter's Avatar
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    Wow, I thought they were 8-8 or 7-9.

  8. #8
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Moving this question from Beefy over to the new thread:

    Lets play a little game. Where will the following QBs be rostered in Week One of the 2017 regular season?

    Tony Romo
    Jay Cutler
    Jimmy Garoppolo
    Tyrod Taylor
    Colin Kaepernick
    RG3
    Kirk Cousins
    Ryan Fitzpatrick
    Geno Smith

  9. #9
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    Denver
    Arizona
    San Fran
    New York
    San Fran
    Cleveland
    Washington
    Free Agent
    Free Agent

  10. #10
    50/50 Booker TimeSplitter's Avatar
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    Tony Romo - Denver
    Jay Cutler - SF
    Jimmy Garoppolo - Cleveland
    Tyrod Taylor - Buffalo
    Colin Kaepernick - Jets
    RG3 - Cut
    Kirk Cousins - R-Words
    Ryan Fitzpatrick - Unsigned
    Geno Smith - Cut
    Last edited by TimeSplitter; February 8th, 2017 at 10:28 AM.

  11. #11
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Some of these are wild guesses:

    • Tony Romo - Bears
    • Jay Cutler - Jets
    • Jimmy Garoppolo - Browns (I want to say Bears since Garop is Illinois born and bred but Browns have more to offer. The Pats would prefer to deal him out of conference but it's the Browns so I don't think they'll be bothered.)
    • Tyrod Taylor - 49ers
    • Colin Kaepernick - Bears (backup to Romo)
    • RG3 - Bills
    • Kirk Cousins - Washington (I think they get a deal done or at least keep him on the franchise tag again)
    • Ryan Fitzpatrick - Jaguars (backup/competition for Bortles)
    • Geno Smith - Cowboys (backup)

  12. #12
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    Geno to the Cowboys is a good guess. I think RG3 is done as a starter in the NFL.

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    I would say Desean Jackson is a pretty notable free agent as well.

  14. #14
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Let me also offer everyone the chance to throw out a WILD PREDICTION (for either the offseason or 2017 season).

    Mine: Jason Pierre-Paul signs with the Patriots. The Patriots don't tend to sign big free agents but I feel like with his hand injury there could be some sneaky value there, and the Pats will be in need at that position since Sheard and Chris Long could likely both be gone.

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    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    What I'd give to land Garoppolo here.

  16. #16
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Also, who does everyone want in the draft?

    I've got my fingers crossed we see either Ryan Ramczyk or Garett Bolles slide to us. If not I'd be very interested in landing Jabrill Peppers should teams pass on his lack of position.

  17. #17
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    Wild Prediction: The Tennessee Titans make the AFC Championship game and Marcus Mariota wins the MVP award.

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    Opening Survey:
    Who will win Super Bowl 52? - The easy answer is the Pats, easier conference to get back to the Bowl, I'll go Packers or Seahawks, dark horses being Dallas or NYG
    Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? - Oakland will drop off
    Which new head coach will be the most successful? - So many bad coaches, I'll go San Fran
    Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? - Rodgers

    Tony Romo - Denver
    Jay Cutler - Backup somewhere
    Jimmy Garoppolo - Chicago
    Tyrod Taylor - Buffalo
    Colin Kaepernick - Backup somewhere
    RG3 - Out of the league
    Kirk Cousins - Stays in Washington
    Ryan Fitzpatrick - Free agent
    Geno Smith - Out of the league

    Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
    Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
    Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
    Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
    Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Miami
    Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Tagged
    Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Tagged
    Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Dallas
    Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Green Bay

  19. #19
    What's happening Caito's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

    I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.

  20. #20
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Do you guys do a Rajah fantasy league? Or would there be any interest in doing a Rajah pick 'em league for a little money? Maybe like a $20 entry fee or something relatively low?

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    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

    I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.
    All that coaching turnover is going to hurt Atlanta.

  22. #22
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    We do.

    And yes, there would be, at least on my end.

  23. #23
    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    All that coaching turnover is going to hurt Atlanta.
    The NFC South is going to be a dog fight. I could end up seeing Atlanta winning 10 games and missing the playoffs due to improvements by Carolina as well as Tampa.

  24. #24
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caito View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

    I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.
    Not to take a homer stance but I couldn't disagree more in regard to which team is better poised to return. The Falcons defense needs a lot of work despite their improvements at the end of the year. I trust in Dan Quinn to keep whipping them into shape and building the roster but you don't often win in the playoffs with a 25th ranked defense. They did this year because their offense was historically great which will be hard to duplicate. They also have a lot of coaching turnover (both coordinators are out plus some assistant coaches). And the Super Bowl hangover is no joke. It's very rare to lose a SB and return the next season - especially since they are in the tougher conference at the moment.

    The Pats meanwhile are in an excellent position moving forward. Of the top 10 teams in available cap space this offseason, 9 of them did not make the playoffs. The only 1 is the Pats (they have over $60 million in cap space currently). So they can take care of a few key guys (Hightower) and maneuver how they see fit. Plus they have the Jimmy G trade chip.

    Not going to make this my wild prediction but I honestly think the Pats have another shot at 16-0 next year if Gronk stays healthy. They will dominate again.

  25. #25
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Actually I'd like to retract that because the Pats schedule next year is much tougher than it was in 2016. AFC West and NFC South on the schedule so they have to play the Chiefs, @Denver, Raiders in Mexico City, @Saints, @Bucs, @Steelers, Falcons at home... that's no picnic. Should be a fun year though.

  26. #26
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    We do.

    And yes, there would be, at least on my end.
    Cool, cool. I'll be running at least one other pick 'em league so I can do one for here as well. Thankfully we have a few months before I put it together

  27. #27
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Actually I'd like to retract that because the Pats schedule next year is much tougher than it was in 2016. AFC West and NFC South on the schedule so they have to play the Chiefs, @Denver, Raiders in Mexico City, @Saints, @Bucs, @Steelers, Falcons at home... that's no picnic. Should be a fun year though.

    Nah, I still think the Pats have a better chance of returning because, well, they're the Pats. It's sustained excellence for 15+ years at this point. I wouldn't bet against them unless they get devastated by injuries during the season. They won't go 16-0 with that schedule but I don't think they struggle to a 1 or 2 seed. They still have the benefit of playing the Jets/Bills/Dophins twice. Dolphins could be tough but I think the Bills take a step back and the Jets are the Jets.

  28. #28
    My dad pinned Mr Backlund Kneeneighbor's Avatar
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    I think he was taking back the comment about 16-0

  29. #29
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Yea sorry just retracting the 16-0 bit.

  30. #30
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Yeah I just read that wrong. My bad. But what I said still stands. Pats have a much better shot of getting back to the SB than Falcons, despite the tougher schedule.

  31. #31
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    No draft fever yet? Still a little too early?

    Three qbs in the first round. Two stud rbs to be had. Defensive players all up and down the boards, including a smorgasbord of dbs.

  32. #32
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    Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB

  33. #33
    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    I'm sure Chicago will take Allen from Bama.

    Maybe the one Tide defender I'd prefer they didn't take due to his shoulder injury history

  34. #34
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB
    CB Tre'Davious White from LSU would be a good fit.

    Quote Originally Posted by kdestiny View Post
    I'm sure Chicago will take Allen from Bama.

    Maybe the one Tide defender I'd prefer they didn't take due to his shoulder injury history
    I'm mixed on Allen. He's clearly talented and worth an early pick. Just get a high floor, low ceiling vibe from him.

    If I took any Bama defender this year it's Reuben Foster, without hesitation.

  35. #35
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    Eagles need to go big at WR and CB in this draft. I know CB is deeper so it might be smart to take a WR in the first round and CB in the 2nd and even 3rd. I would then go RB in the 4th, and DE, DT with their two 5th rounders. Maybe go OL in the 6th and 7th.

    First use the money you save by cutting, Mckelvin, Matthews, and Barwin and sign someone like Stills or Jackson as a starting WR. Use the rest of the money to sign a veteran corner and pass rusher

  36. #36
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    maldives
    McShay's version 2.0 ...

    1. Cleveland Browns Myles Garrett, OLB/DE, Texas A&M
    2. San Francisco 49ers Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
    3. Chicago Bears Jonathan Allen, DE, Alabama
    4. Jacksonville Jaguars Jamal Adams, S, LSU
    5. Tennessee Titans Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
    6. New York Jets Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State
    7. Los Angeles Chargers Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State
    8. Carolina Panthers Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
    9. Cincinnati Bengals Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford
    10. Buffalo Bills Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
    11. New Orleans Saints Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan
    12. Cleveland Browns (from Eagles) Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
    13. Arizona Cardinals Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
    14. Philadelphia Eagles (from Vikings) Teez Tabor, CB, Florida
    15. Indianapolis Colts Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
    16. Baltimore Ravens Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State
    17. Washington Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan
    18. Tennessee Titans Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
    19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
    20. Denver Broncos Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin
    21. Detroit Lions Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
    22. Miami Dolphins David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.)
    23. New York Giants Takkarist McKinley, DE/OLB, UCLA
    24. Oakland Raiders Jarrad Davis, LB, Florida
    25. Houston Texans Garett Bolles, OT, Utah
    26. Seattle Seahawks Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama
    27. Kansas City Chiefs Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU
    28. Dallas Cowboys Tim Williams, OLB, Alabama
    29. Green Bay Packers Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
    30. Pittsburgh Steelers Charles Harris, OLB, Missouri
    31. Atlanta Falcons Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida
    32. New England Patriots Haason Reddick, LB, Temple
    I'd do backflips for this.

  37. #37
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    It's amazing how Corey Davis is higher than Williams in some mock drafts and as low as in the 20s in others.

  38. #38
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Having a 1st round pick and being in mock drafts again feels good

  39. #39
    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    Much rather Chicago trade down a bit or take a QB

  40. #40
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    maldives
    Heard an interesting argument recently about the idea of abolishing the draft entirely.

    Being a big fan of the whole ordeal because my team fucking sucks, and believing more so than not that it helps with parity and is wholly entertaining, I wasn't thrilled with the suggestion. But then I listened a little more.

    So, every team would have the same basic idea of 7 picks (more or less) that are slotted according to where you finished your season. Cap numbers would run accordingly as well. So if you're Cleveland you have a little more to offer than NE for instance but if you're NE you clearly have a little more to offer from a structural standpoint. And so every player declaring eligible would be free to negotiate with any team interested and it becomes kind of a controlled free for all.

    Big picture here is players have a say in where they begin their careers like everyone else but within a system that still gives parity a reasonable say.

    Yay, nay?

  41. #41
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Nay

    It's hard to wrap my head around the implications of that type of system. When would an elite QB prospect like Luck or Mariota or Winston ever sign with a crummy team like the Browns? How would the Browns pull themselves out of the franchise hole they're in? Sure, they could offer the most money so it's not like they wouldn't still be able to sign 1st round prospects but that could be a nightmare for a franchise if they get into a cycle of not being able to lure top-10 level prospects. And when you get into the later rounds it might get even worse because the money wouldn't be drastically different between slots. Also marquee players would want to sign in big markets, giving up salary for the potential of additional endorsement income.

    I think it would be a mess and would facilitate more dynasties and less parody.

  42. #42
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    Don't like it at all. Doesn't give crap teams a chance to build in the draft.

    Everyone would go to the previous year's playoff teams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Nay

    It's hard to wrap my head around the implications of that type of system. When would an elite QB prospect like Luck or Mariota or Winston ever sign with a crummy team like the Browns? How would the Browns pull themselves out of the franchise hole they're in? Sure, they could offer the most money so it's not like they wouldn't still be able to sign 1st round prospects but that could be a nightmare for a franchise if they get into a cycle of not being able to lure top-10 level prospects. And when you get into the later rounds it might get even worse because the money wouldn't be drastically different between slots. Also marquee players would want to sign in big markets, giving up salary for the potential of additional endorsement income.

    I think it would be a mess and would facilitate more dynasties and less parody.
    You don't think there are players that are focused greatly on the money? Or that have the competitive ego to think that they could be the piece to change a place like Cleveland?

    As for the later rounds, sure the money becomes less differentiated slot-wise, but kinda so do the players at that point. And it would lend to more strategic negotiations.

    And sure marquee players would want that, but there are only so many slots like that available and so to the better management go those other better players.

    And lastly, and as important as anything, this gives players the right to control where they work. As it is kinda bizarre that that's not really a thing as it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judas Iscariot View Post
    Don't like it at all. Doesn't give crap teams a chance to build in the draft.

    Everyone would go to the previous year's playoff teams.
    Sure it does.

    And there are only so many of those slots for so much financial incentive.

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    Tannehill and Ajayi to be even better this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    McShay's version 2.0 ...



    I'd do backflips for this.
    I would be disappointed if Green Bay went RB in the first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB
    Whole draft needs to spent on the D.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kneeneighbor View Post
    I would be disappointed if Green Bay went RB in the first.
    Ya, Kamara is a heck of a rising talent, but this draft is deep with rbs. Better off tackling a need with elite potential early and still looking at a quality back later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    You don't think there are players that are focused greatly on the money? Or that have the competitive ego to think that they could be the piece to change a place like Cleveland?

    As for the later rounds, sure the money becomes less differentiated slot-wise, but kinda so do the players at that point. And it would lend to more strategic negotiations.

    And sure marquee players would want that, but there are only so many slots like that available and so to the better management go those other better players.

    And lastly, and as important as anything, this gives players the right to control where they work. As it is kinda bizarre that that's not really a thing as it is.
    I think a team like the Browns would end up with a far worse draft class than what they'll get in the current system. It would make getting out of the gutter harder, but not impossible.

    I don't think the draft system is that bizarre. I mean, it's so engrained in all major American sports that it's hard to imagine anything else. It's necessary for equity between the teams and to create competitive balance. What was bizarre was before free agency was a thing and guy really couldn't control where they work.

    Unrelated note: It's wild that the Patriots haven't scored in the 1st quarter in any of their 7 Super Bowls this era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I think a team like the Browns would end up with a far worse draft class than what they'll get in the current system. It would make getting out of the gutter harder, but not impossible.

    I don't think the draft system is that bizarre. I mean, it's so engrained in all major American sports that it's hard to imagine anything else. It's necessary for equity between the teams and to create competitive balance. What was bizarre was before free agency was a thing and guy really couldn't control where they work.
    Why should the Browns being a shitstain on the league have to affect a decent kid coming out of school looking for the best job he can find?

    Why are we protecting them over him?

    And the draft hasn't exactly been doing the Browns any favors either. So kids are essentially punished for being talented/valuable while an inept franchise still can't figure it out. This really doesn't make a ton of sense. Perhaps it'd be best to punish perennially floundering franchises for being shit?

    And how is the draft system not bizarre compared to the other 99% of the working world where people aren't drafted, they're recruited?

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Why should the Browns being a shitstain on the league have to affect a decent kid coming out of school looking for the best job he can find?

    Why are we protecting them over him?

    And the draft hasn't exactly been doing the Browns any favors either. So kids are essentially punished for being talented/valuable while an inept franchise still can't figure it out. This really doesn't make a ton of sense. Perhaps it'd be best to punish perennially floundering franchises for being shit?

    And how is the draft system not bizarre compared to the other 99% of the working world where people aren't drafted, they're recruited?
    The draft system makes for a healthier league that earns more revenue/salary for its players who collectively bargained this arrangement. Upward mobility (i.e. teams rising and falling) is vital to making the product nationally appealing and it allows for expansion teams to have a chance to prosper (creating more revenue and jobs).

    This is a union industry. If you want to join the NFL Players Union you need to participate in the system they established, and the reward you get is a lucrative salary, potential fame, and a job millions of kids aspire to obtain. If you don't want to play by the NFLPA's rules, you can play professional football in a different league that has different rules. I'm sure there are other union jobs where you get assigned to a certain job/location without much say in the matter.

    Also I think it is a stretch to say playing for the Browns (or any other NFL team) is a punishment.

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    The draft system is necessary, although a rookie who is green but has tons of potential can have their career ruined by going to a horribly ran franchise like the Browns. I think going to a team like the Browns psychologically fucks up the young player, and even physically they are probably more vulnerable to getting hurt due to poor offensive or defensive schemes, poor talent around them, etc.

    at the same time having a free for all system where teams and rookies can essentially go wherever they want isnt all that smart either. Pretty much every rookie with potential will go to a team that is in Super Bowl contention or choose a team with ideal location (NY, Miami, San Diego, etc)

    That would leave teams like Buffalo, Cleveland, Minnesota, etc in a situation where they might as well relegate to the canadian football league. Who in the world would want to play on one of those teams besides the guys who can't get on the better/better located teams?

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    No, not all of them (the talented rookies) would do so because the money wouldn't be allocated that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    The draft system makes for a healthier league that earns more revenue/salary for its players who collectively bargained this arrangement. Upward mobility (i.e. teams rising and falling) is vital to making the product nationally appealing and it allows for expansion teams to have a chance to prosper (creating more revenue and jobs).

    This is a union industry. If you want to join the NFL Players Union you need to participate in the system they established, and the reward you get is a lucrative salary, potential fame, and a job millions of kids aspire to obtain. If you don't want to play by the NFLPA's rules, you can play professional football in a different league that has different rules. I'm sure there are other union jobs where you get assigned to a certain job/location without much say in the matter.

    Also I think it is a stretch to say playing for the Browns (or any other NFL team) is a punishment.
    Who is saying there can't be upward mobility without the draft?

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Who is saying there can't be upward mobility without the draft?
    I do. Not that there would be no upward mobility, just that it would be more difficult and thus would hurt the league's national appeal. Even with the current system, the Browns have been in a bad sustained funk. Imagine if we had 5 teams in that same situation instead of 1, and how the television ratings for their games would be. We already complain about bad games on TV, this would increase that problem.

    I get that you're saying there would still be salary slotting based on team records so it's not a total abandonment of the draft system. The Browns would be able to offer the most money to their 1st round pick, the Patriots would be able to offer the least. Honestly I think it's tough for any of us to correctly predict how college players would react to such a system and to what degree they would value going to the best place vs going for the place with the highest salary. It would be literal mayhem.

    But I think relegation in conjunction with what you're proposing would be an interesting idea, where we punish a team like the Browns for being bad by kicking them out of the league rather than having an equitable system that helps them get back to being good. I guess that's what European soccer leagues do.

    All that being said, since this has literally no chance of ever happening, I don't know that it's worth debating to the extent that we have, but it's an interesting hypothetical.

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    Pats should try and trade Jimmy G to the Bears, Cleveland or San Fran for a first-round pick. Could you imagine what Bill would do with a top-5 pick and the #32.

    He could turn that into magic.

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    I think you have to think of the NFL as the company they are going to work for. The teams are just subdivisions.

    My brother works as the manager of a warehouse for a large retail company. Once he is hired there he can be moved to any of the warehouses that they think he would be best at. He can always say no and leave the company but he cant just pick and choose which one he is at.

    I teach at a High School in a district with 5 High Schools. Even with the union if numbers fluctuate at the schools all I am guaranteed is a teaching spot at one of those schools. They can bounce me around to where ever they want.

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    @AdrianPeterson:
    The Giants been making some interesting moves.


    AP on the Giants... thoughts? His tweet is referring to all the guys they've been cutting to free up cap space. The Vikings have a team option that would put him at an $18 million cap hit which they are unlikely to pick up given his recent injury and age (he will be 32 in March) thus making him likely headed towards free agency. He could still work out a deal to stay in Minnesota but the Giants are another place he's seemingly eyeing.

    I think it would be cool. He has another good season in him, I'd guess. Maybe 2. Giants could certainly use him and he would make their offense more dynamic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey_Badger View Post
    Pats should try and trade Jimmy G to the Bears, Cleveland or San Fran for a first-round pick. Could you imagine what Bill would do with a top-5 pick and the #32.

    He could turn that into magic.
    You are trying to say he is a top 5 pick? That's honestly insane. I might be able to argue he isn't worth a 2nd rounder.

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    If Jimmy Garoppolo could magically re-enter the draft this year, after his time with the Pats, he would almost certainly be the 1st QB off the board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    @AdrianPeterson:
    The Giants been making some interesting moves.


    AP on the Giants... thoughts? His tweet is referring to all the guys they've been cutting to free up cap space. The Vikings have a team option that would put him at an $18 million cap hit which they are unlikely to pick up given his recent injury and age (he will be 32 in March) thus making him likely headed towards free agency. He could still work out a deal to stay in Minnesota but the Giants are another place he's seemingly eyeing.

    I think it would be cool. He has another good season in him, I'd guess. Maybe 2. Giants could certainly use him and he would make their offense more dynamic.
    I think it would be a good fit if they work out a deal. The good news for AP is that in NY he won't be the focal point of the offense. They could easily get two decent years out of him if they limit his usage. I've also read that he wants to play in Dallas but I don't see that happening, not with Elliot.

    'Hawks aren't being punished for not revealing Sherman's MCL injury. They claimed it was due to a "misunderstanding" of the injury report rules since Sherman didn't miss any practices/games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    If Jimmy Garoppolo could magically re-enter the draft this year, after his time with the Pats, he would almost certainly be the 1st QB off the board.
    Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.

    I wasn't being completely serious saying he isn't a 2nd rounder because he was drafted there but top 5 pick is a little much don't you think? I would say he would be worth a 20's first round pick looking at it objectively.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; February 16th, 2017 at 10:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Do you really think he is worth a top 5 pick? Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.
    No I've never thought that but I would put the upper limit trade return as the Browns #12 pick so it's not that far off. The Texans #25 pick would be more realistic but if there's a bidding war I could see the Browns pulling that trigger. If you think Jimmy Garoppolo is your future and that he's better than any of the QBs available in the draft (which I personally do), of course he's worth a 1st rounder. Getting a franchise QB in this league in this day and age is almost priceless. If he becomes a top 10 QB, you could trade multiple first round picks for him and in 5 years people will say it was a good trade. So it really comes down to your evaluation of him and whether you think he's that. Sure there's the financial aspect which is that you only have him for cheap for 1 year versus a draft pick who you have for cheap for 4 years, but above all else you need to get a QB if you want to win. Look at what your Eagles gave up for Wentz. Again it's not apples to apples because of Jimmy's contract status but when you can get your guy, you pull out all stops.

    Side note I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick does something unexpected and doesn't even go for draft picks but trades him for a player, like a Garoppolo for DeAndre Hopkins deal or something crazy like that. Bill tends to do the unexpected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    No I've never thought that but I would put the upper limit trade return as the Browns #12 pick so it's not that far off. The Texans #25 pick would be more realistic but if there's a bidding war I could see the Browns pulling that trigger. If you think Jimmy Garoppolo is your future and that he's better than any of the QBs available in the draft (which I personally do), of course he's worth a 1st rounder.
    That's the thing, you are basing it on his limited playing time in the NFL and years of experience. Obviously you can't say well Jimmy is better because he played behind Brady and Bill and has experience in the NFL as your criteria. A team that is struggling like the bears, niners and browns wouldn't want to spend the extra money on a player when they could just draft one for really cheap and use the extra cash on signings that would improve their team. It's not like these teams are just a QB away from competing either whether a semi-veteran qb would make the difference.

    I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position. I don't see why a team like the Broncos wouldn't be interested. They are picking in the teens right now.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; February 16th, 2017 at 11:19 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.

    I wasn't being completely serious saying he isn't a 2nd rounder because he was drafted there but top 5 pick is a little much don't you think? I would say he would be worth a 20's first round pick looking at it objectively.
    Against this year's QB class he'd be rated highest and so if you magically declared him eligible today he's a top 5 pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position.
    Wouldn't be unrealistic at all. Jimmy's on the last year of a pennies rookie deal and next year Osweiler is cut and so money cleared.

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    I could absolutely see Cleveland trading their second first rounder plus maybe another for Jimmy. I feel like there is a chance they would use it on QB anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    That's the thing, you are basing it on his limited playing time in the NFL and years of experience. Obviously you can't say well Jimmy is better because he played behind Brady and Bill and has experience in the NFL as your criteria. A team that is struggling like the bears, niners and browns wouldn't want to spend the extra money on a player when they could just draft one for really cheap and use the extra cash on signings that would improve their team. It's not like these teams are just a QB away from competing either whether a semi-veteran qb would make the difference.

    I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position. I don't see why a team like the Broncos wouldn't be interested. They are picking in the teens right now.
    I doubt the Broncos want to use 1st round picks on QBs two years in a row unless Paxton Lynch is already a bust and Siemien isn't the answer but that doesn't seem to be their attitude. I also don't think the Patriots would send him there since they are a conference rival who always gives us trouble. So that possibility seems extremely unlikely.

    I know it's a small sample but Jimmy going 43 of 63 (68%) with 4 TDs, 0 picks and a 113 passer rating in his 6 quarters of meaningful play is enough to get excited about. He looked like a guy who will be a starting QB in this league for 10 years. Maybe it's fool's gold but I would say it's a lot more solid than any college QB this year (since there are no slam dunk guys like Luck/Winston/Mariota). QB isn't like other positions where you say "well I'll just get one on the cheap in the draft instead of signing a guy to big money".... it's the position that makes or breaks your franchise for entire eras.

    Pre-Super Bowl my prediction was that the Pats hold firm and keep Jimmy for 2017. The SB changed things for sure. Brady is not going anywhere after that performance so you deal Jimmy now. I'm not sure how this will play out but I'm happy that the media is running with the story about how all these teams have strong interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    Against this year's QB class he'd be rated highest and so if you magically declared him eligible today he's a top 5 pick.
    Obviously it doesn't work that way though. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason when he got drafted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    I know it's a small sample but Jimmy going 43 of 63 (68%) with 4 TDs, 0 picks and a 113 passer rating in his 6 quarters of meaningful play is enough to get excited about. He looked like a guy who will be a starting QB in this league for 10 years. Maybe it's fool's gold but I would say it's a lot more solid than any college QB this year (since there are no slam dunk guys like Luck/Winston/Mariota). QB isn't like other positions where you say "well I'll just get one on the cheap in the draft instead of signing a guy to big money".... it's the position that makes or breaks your franchise for entire eras.
    it really is a small sample size. People thought Matt Flynn was the next big qb based on his amazing start to his career. i just find it hard to believe a team would give up a top 5 pick based on that sample size knowing they are going to have to pay him way more than a rookie they could draft and mold.
    Last edited by PurePlayer; February 16th, 2017 at 12:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Obviously it doesn't work that way though. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason when he got drafted.
    But you asked how he is worth a top 5 pick, and so there. He's worth more than guys that will assuredly go in that spot. That's how.

    And he went in the 2nd only because of his small school competition. His tape showed more than that but the questions lingered. He's now showed to hang with this level. And small sample sure, but that's every snap more sample than guys entering this draft have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    But you asked how he is worth a top 5 pick, and so there. He's worth more than guys that will assuredly go in that spot. That's how.

    And he went in the 2nd only because of his small school competition. His tape showed more than that but the questions lingered. He's now showed to hang with this level. And small sample sure, but that's every snap more sample than guys entering this draft have.
    There a lot of players in this league worth a top 5 pick but you don't see teams trading away those picks for contract reasons and in this case a very small sample size along with a bigger contract to come. Why would a team like Chicago not just draft an unproven QB and use the additional money on other issues over trading for an unproven player that has shown glimpses in a system that has generated good QB performances (Matt Cassel) and having to pay him money while not knowing how good he really is? Doesn't make sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    it really is a small sample size. People thought Matt Flynn was the next big qb based on his amazing start to his career. i just find it hard to believe a team would give up a top 5 pick based on that sample size knowing they are going to have to pay him way more than a rookie they could draft and mold.
    That's fine, no one has really suggested that except Honey Badger. And to HB's defense I don't think it's impossible but I would be shocked just like you and kdestiny if the Bears actually deal the #3 pick for JG. That's very doubtful. But hey, Sam Bradford got a 1st and a 4th so teams get crazy sometimes. If the Bears really want him and the Browns offer pick #12, maybe that's what they have to do.

    Not to beat a dead horse in terms of all the possibilities, but I could see the Browns 2nd round pick (1st pick of the 2nd round) being the big chip. Maybe that plus their 2018 2nd round pick. I wouldn't hate it. I forget how all the draft salary slotting works but it's possible that Belichick loves the 1st pick of the 2nd round because it's essentially a 1st rounder but you don't have to pay them as much.

    One thing on the Browns though, if Jimmy doesn't want to sign an extension there that could take them out of the running. Any team who gives up a ton will want at least an understanding that he's willing to sign there long term.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    There a lot of players in this league worth a top 5 pick but you don't see teams trading away those picks for contract reasons and in this case a very small sample size along with a bigger contract to come. Why would a team like Chicago not just draft an unproven QB and use the additional money on other issues over trading for an unproven player that has shown glimpses in a system that has generated good QB performances (Matt Cassel) and having to pay him money while not knowing how good he really is? Doesn't make sense to me.
    Because Chicago wouldn't have to grow Garoppolo. He's damn near plug and play. The top guys this year may not come on till 2018. Maybe sooner, but that's seriously doubtful. None of them are considered less than very much works in progress with wart after wart.

    And frankly Chicago can do whatever they damn well please. I couldn't care less. The question was how is his value established as such. And that's been pointed out.

    And Matt Cassel was a 7th rounder. It's hardly a comparison. Teams were coveting Jimmy in the draft despite his small school status. Now he's also been adjusted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by percussion13 View Post
    And Matt Cassel was a 7th rounder. It's hardly a comparison. Teams were coveting Jimmy in the draft despite his small school status. Now he's also been adjusted.
    Right but that furthers my point. A player like Matt Cassel was successful in the Patriots system and he played for a full year with a bigger sample size but then faded when he went to another team. JG is still very unproven with less of a sample size in a system that made mediocre QB's look decent. Also you say Chicago can just plug and play him. They obviously are years away from competing. It's not like they, the Browns, or Niners are a QB away from winning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PurePlayer View Post
    Right but that furthers my point. A player like Matt Cassel was success in the Patriots system and he played for a full year with a bigger sample size but then faded when he went to another team. JG is still very unproven with less of a sample size in a system that made mediocre QB's look decent.
    That's where talent evaluation comes into play. Garoppolo has tools for days that Cassel could only dream of. Cassel relied on the system and got by. Garoppolo drove it.

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    AP is done. He can't stay on the field to save his life. He burned his last bridge here in MN when he sat out the final game when he was healthy. I'm tired of his style, where he scuttles in the backfield and is lucky to gain 1-2 yards per rush. He might be a good change of pace back for a playoff team.

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    Atlanta Brewery paying off a debt.


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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    AP is done. He can't stay on the field to save his life. He burned his last bridge here in MN when he sat out the final game when he was healthy. I'm tired of his style, where he scuttles in the backfield and is lucky to gain 1-2 yards per rush. He might be a good change of pace back for a playoff team.
    idk man you sound kinda jaded. in 2015 he played 16 games and led the league in rushing. last season obviously he had a slow start then the torn meniscus. were Vikings fans tired of his style in 2015 or is that something new to last season?

    he might be done I mean he'll be 32 next season but I don't wanna count the guy out yet. he's one of the great rushers of all time and the last time he was healthy he was still the best in the league.

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    Many people in MN wanted him gone 3 years ago.

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    because he whipped his kid or for football reasons?

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    Little from column A little from column B.

    They cite fumbles and the fact that he seems to go 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 80, 2, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, with his rushing

    EDIT: Also that while he missed that year he basically came back and demanded more guaranteed money. There were a lot of people upset about that and felt he should be playing for a job that year and grateful for what he had.
    Last edited by Kneeneighbor; February 16th, 2017 at 4:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    idk man you sound kinda jaded. in 2015 he played 16 games and led the league in rushing. last season obviously he had a slow start then the torn meniscus. were Vikings fans tired of his style in 2015 or is that something new to last season?

    he might be done I mean he'll be 32 next season but I don't wanna count the guy out yet. he's one of the great rushers of all time and the last time he was healthy he was still the best in the league.
    I'm not jaded. If the patriots had a running back that was in decline, and has the highest salary on the team, you'd want him gone too. He's not going to accept a pay cut to stay in MN, most players don't, they'd take less money on a new team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimeSplitter View Post
    I'm not jaded. If the patriots had a running back that was in decline, and has the highest salary on the team, you'd want him gone too. He's not going to accept a pay cut to stay in MN, most players don't, they'd take less money on a new team.
    That's all true enough but I was responding to the idea that he's done as a viable running back in the NFL and can't stay on the field anymore. If you're just saying he's done in Minnesota then I won't argue that.

    But I think he still has a 1,000 yard season in him. Could certainly be wrong.

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    He could rush for 1,000 yards, but I don't think there are a lot of teams that will sign him to be the main guy. New York has Vereen and Perkins, who had decent years. Teams that could give him a solid amount of carries would be:

    Packers
    Carolina (depending on what they do with Stewart)
    Minnesota (If he took a pay cut)
    Colts (but they already have a 30's running back)
    Ravens?
    Eagles?

    Honestly, I think him signing up with the packers is the only way he gets 1,000 yards.

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    As a Packer fan I have very mixed thoughts about AP coming here. On one hand I would love a legit stud rb. On the other hand I don't wanna pay him because I worry about injuries and a decline.

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    Williams, Albert, Mitchell and cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu in salary cap moves. All good ones I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESPN
    Darrelle Revis was charged by Pittsburgh police on Thursday night with aggravated assault, robbery, terroristic threats and conspiracy stemming from his alleged involvement in a street altercation over the weekend that witnesses say left two men unconscious. Revis' attorney, Blaine Jones, told ESPN that he was trying to reach the four-time All-Pro by phone Thursday night to arrange for him to surrender to police. Jones wouldn't say when Revis would turn himself in, but noted it would be "rather soon."
    On Sunday, February 12 at approximately 2:43 a.m., Zone 3 Officers were dispatched to the intersection of S. 23rd and E. Carson streets for a report that two males had been knocked unconscious. According to the investigation, a 22-year-old male from Kittanning was walking along E. Carson Street when he spotted a male who resembled Aliquippa native Darrelle Revis, a cornerback in the NFL. He asked if the man was Darrell Revis and he confirmed that he was. The male began recording the interaction on his cellphone and continued following Revis. At some point, Revis snatched the cellphone away and attempted to delete the video. Another 21-year-old male from Ross Township attempted to help the 22-year-old retrieve the cellphone. Revis then tossed the phone onto the roadway. A verbal argument followed. A male came to assist Revis. Both the 22-year-old and the 21-year-old state they were punched then remember waking up to talk to police. Witnesses state the two were unconscious for about 10 minutes. The officers viewed the cellphone video and confirmed that the person was Revis.
    Sooo basically Revis got followed by some punks at 3AM in Pittsburgh, they started following him and filming him, he got pissed, took their phone and tried to delete the video, then kicked their ass and knocked them unconscious for 10 minutes until cops woke them up. That seems like a long time to be unconscious, no?

    Anyway this probably spells the end of Revis's career. The Jets were likely to cut him anyway and this all but assures it. He could still sign somewhere but people were speculating he would retire if cut anyway, and now he's facing a potential suspension.

    Hall of famer for sure but not a good way to go out.

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    Dude's being charged with four felonies. Not a good look at all.

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    It's getting on that time of year, anyone else interested in Mayock's pre-combine postion rankings ...

    Quarterback

    1. DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
    2. Deshaun Watson, Clemson
    3. Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
    4. Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech
    5. Davis Webb, California

    Running Back

    1. Dalvin Cook, Florida State
    2. Leonard Fournette, LSU
    3. Christian McCaffrey, Stanford
    4. Alvin Kamara, Tennessee
    5. Joe Mixon, Oklahoma

    Wide receiver

    1. Corey Davis, Western Michigan
    2. Mike Williams, Clemson
    3. John Ross, Washington
    4. Cooper Kupp, Eastern Washington
    5. Zay Jones, East Carolina

    Tight end

    1. O.J. Howard, Alabama
    2. David Njoku, Miami
    3. Evan Engram, Ole Miss
    4. Jake Butt, Michigan
    5. Gerald Everett, South Alabama

    Offensive tackle

    1. Ryan Ramczyk, Wisconsin
    2. Garett Bolles, Utah
    3. Antonio Garcia, Troy
    4. Roderick Johnson, Florida State
    T-5. Taylor Moton, Western Michigan
    T-5. Jermaine Eluemunor, Texas A&M

    Interior OL

    1. Forrest Lamp, Western Kentucky
    2. Cam Robinson, Alabama
    3. Dan Feeney, Indiana
    4. Ethan Pocic, LSU
    5. Dion Dawkins, Temple

    Interior DL

    1. Jonathan Allen, Alabama
    2. Caleb Brantley, Florida
    3. Malik McDowell, Michigan State
    4. Larry Ogunjobi, Charlotte
    5. Chris Wormley, Michigan

    Edge rusher

    1. Myles Garrett, Texas A&M
    2. Tim Williams, Alabama
    3. Derek Barnett, Tennessee
    4. Solomon Thomas, Stanford
    5. Takkarist McKinley, UCLA

    Linebacker

    1. Reuben Foster, Alabama
    2. Haason Reddick, Temple
    3. Zach Cunningham, Vanderbilt
    4. Jarrad Davis, Florida
    5. Alex Anzalone, Florida

    Cornerback

    1. Sidney Jones, Washington
    2. Marshon Lattimore, Ohio State
    3. Marlon Humphrey, Alabama
    4. Teez Tabor, Florida
    5. Tre'Davious White, LSU

    Safety

    1. Malik Hooker, Ohio State
    2. Jamal Adams, LSU
    3. Jabrill Peppers, Michigan
    4. Budda Baker, Washington
    5. Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut

    Special exceptions

    Note: This category is for players who are not ranked in the top 5 at their position but have special value elsewhere (special teams, for example).

    1. Adoree' Jackson, USC
    2. Curtis Samuel, Ohio State
    3. Chidobe Awuzie, Colorado
    4. Desmond King, Iowa
    5. Adam Shaheen, Ashland
    and already a few notables..

    Mitch Trubisky at 3rd
    Dalvin Cook above Leonard Fournette
    Cam Robinson at guard
    Haason Reddick above Zach Cunningham

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    JPP gets the franchise tag for nearly $17 million which surprises me. He previously said he doesn't want to play on a 1-year deal so this could be an interesting negotiation/holdout situation. Good for him for getting back to this point after his injury.

    Antonio Brown gets a 4-year extension worth $68 million. $18.5M per year over the first 3 years. Well earned. Steelers should be contenders as long as their big 3 on offense can stay on the field together. With Big Ben talking retirement they need to strike now.

    Le'Veon Bell and Chandler Jones also get the franchise tag - no surprises there.

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    Redskins tagged Kirk Cousins. Have to pay him $24 million this year, and tagging him again would be absurdly expensive. So he'll hit the open market next year.

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    There's talk of trading him to SF. Hard to think they'd get anything above a 3rd if the new team has to pay him $24 million.

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    They can work on an extension with him until July but if not, and if he stays healthy, this would be the most the franchise tag has ever worked in a player's favor. He could make well north of $100 million in real cash in a 3 year span assuming he signs a big free agent contract next offseason.

    In regard to potentially trading him, I doubt that will happen since I don't see the Redskins going into rebuild mode. But generally the team trading for him would do so with an agreement in place that he would sign an extension so he wouldn't be playing under the terms of the franchise tag with the 49ers.

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    Why are they not just signing him to a long term deal?

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    It takes 2 to Tango.

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    Adrian Peterson has hit the free market. Vikings decline the option today.

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    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Not shocking, but KC cut Charles.

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    Is the belief that Cousins doesn't want a longterm deal with Washington or that they're not sold on him? I was under the impression that last year he'd have taken a big money deal and they wanted to see him prove it but maybe now the tables have turned.

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    Agree, I think he's at a point where he knows he can get a ton of cash with the tag again this year and then be in the open market next year for even more. The downside for him is he gets hurt and walks away with $45 million. But a baddest gamble.

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    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    @AdamSchefter: In a move that will have a ripple effect on all QB-needy teams, Patriots are not expected to trade QB Jimmy Garoppolo, per league sources.

    Interesting. This is what I always predicted would happen - keep him as the backup for 2017 and push the decision back a year when they can still franchise and trade him (or trade Brady, god forbid) - but I don't see why they would shut the door in the event someone comes with a crazy offer of two 1st round picks or something like that. And I still think they could be persuaded by the right offer. So all this report means, to me, is that they are setting a very high asking price and no one is expected to match it. If you're coming with an offer of a 2nd and 3rd round pick, there's the door.

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