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View Poll Results: Is there too much WWE?

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  • Yes, there is too much.

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Thread: Is there too much WWE?

  1. #1
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Is there too much WWE?

    Just realized that TLC is tonight... and we have Roadblock later this month. I think WWE is really over-saturating itself these days w/ all these PPVs. They really should start to dial back on them and make the people start to miss the product. I don't feel any anticipation at all. Do you all agree?
    Last edited by VHS; December 4th, 2016 at 4:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Turning back time Kdestiny's Avatar
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    usa
    Way too much. I watch recaps of the shows during the week anymore

  3. #3
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    Considering that I enjoy most of their stuff that I watch, and can freely pick and choose from their content, i'm pretty damn happy about it. They've made wrestling a buffet that can be consumed at any time in any way. Fucking aces with me.

  4. #4
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    I much prefer a fine steak that has me brooding w/ anticipation.

  5. #5
    President of sex
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    I've stopped watching wrestling regularly for the first time in 33/34 years because there is entirely too much WWE programming. I dvr Raw and SD and if I read something amazing in the spoilers then I watch that particular segment/match. The only thing I've watched in the past 2 months is the Goldberg segments, the Jericho/Owens fake break up, and the Owens/Rollins match a couple weeks ago. I cancelled my network sub in the first time since it began. Total burnout. Less is more, more is less, and too much is passible. Add the fact that TWD, Ash vs Evil Dead, and Fox prograamming are on tonight and there is no way I'd watch tonight's ppv even if they payed me.
    Last edited by stylepoints; December 4th, 2016 at 5:21 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHS View Post
    I much prefer a fine steak that has me brooding w/ anticipation.
    Everyday?

  7. #7
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    Stop trying to watch it all. Follow brands that you like and are confident in.

  8. #8
    Rush
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    As soon as RAW went to 3 hours full time, that was it for me. I'm a very, very casual fan now.

  9. #9
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VHS View Post
    Just realized that TLC is tonight... and we have Roadblock later this month. I think WWE is really over-saturating itself these days w/ all these PPVs. They really should start to dial back on them and make the people start to miss the product. I don't feel any anticipation at all. Do you all agree?
    Too much for me? No.

    Too much for the marketplace to the point it has over saturated itself? Yes.

  10. #10
    The Stale Smell of Excess Jimmy Zero's Avatar
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    I've given up on wrestling completely for the first time since I became a fan (for me, wrestling has always been WWE). There's too much of it (3 hour Raws and Smackdown the next night just isn't going to happen, and the amount of PPV specials is just over the top right now), it's (for me) too hard to keep up, and what I do see doesn't do it for me.

    At this point, I really don't know what the WWE could do to rope me back in. The in ring product is generally great, but I never watched wrestling ONLY for the in ring product. I want decent characters and storylines, too, and I feel like those are too far and in between these days. The product also feels too stylized and micro-managed and this current iteration of the WWE product doesn't make me feel engaged with what's going on in the ring.

    I'd possibly revive my Network subscription if I could watch Raw/Smackdown on the Network live as it's aired, but that's not going to happen any time soon. I'm definitely not engaged enough with the current product to seek it out after the shows have aired on cable (which I got rid of a year or so ago).

    Maybe I've finally just lost interest in pro-wrestling as an art form/source of entertainment.
    Last edited by Jimmy Zero; December 4th, 2016 at 5:38 PM.

  11. #11
    GO ON LAD Fanny Batter's Avatar
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    I haven't watched the weeklies on a regular basis for nigh on a decade and am still a fan. I'll watch Raw during 'Mania season because it's more concise (well, was until the last couple of builds) but stick to reading the recap and watching the youtube top 10 and particular segments if they sound good. I don't think I've seen a Raw match in its entirety since 'Mania.

    I watch the PPV's when I can, as they're generally good. I get hyped for the Rumble through to Wrestlemania period watching old events, then the rest of the year I will watch what I fancy that's in digestable forms. NXT at an hour a week I can do if they're in a purple patch, I enjoyed the CWC a lot and like the documentaries they put out, as well as the live interviews with JBL or Austin. Any adult with any form of commitments would struggle to take in everything, so as Cewsh said just stick to what you enjoy... and enjoy it.

  12. #12
    Defiance is a four letter
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    Far, far, far too much.

  13. #13
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    ussr
    even with all the content they put out they haven't produced much really top-level stuff this year, this is inexcusable given their talent.

  14. #14
    Bagel
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    The RAW product seems to be lacking and it's not much to do with it being a three hour show. I've cut back how much I pay attention to the show and it's often just on for noise if I'm around. There seems to be little of significance you miss by not watching more than the first and last 20-30 minutes.

  15. #15
    Titty Master Jordo's Avatar
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    I watch nxt almost every week and I'll probably be watching 205 live every week now too. I tend to try to watch raw and smackdown but if I get bored I turn it off, I catch things I miss on Hulu most the time.

    I do think there is a bit too much. I think the PPVs could be cut down and I really think raw is a bit bloated at three hours. I also think having everything Sunday (sometimes even Saturday) through Wednesday leads to a bit of fatigue.

  16. #16
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    usa
    It is something you can view a la carte...

  17. #17
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    I think there's a difference between what's fun to watch and what's good for business.

    Like everybody else I pick and choose what I watch. Keep up on Raw and Smackdown but don't watch all of it. Watch the pay-per-views. Watch NXT TakeOvers and NXT matches that I hear about. Will be watching 205 Live. Will watch the women's tournament when it happens. It's nice for me that there's a ton of content that I can pick and choose from.

    But for their business they'd probably be better off scaling back. I'm not counting NXT or 205 Live here, that's Network only and for hardcore fans. I think having three hours of Raw, two of Smackdown, and two pay-per-views a month is probably driving off a lot of people, especially since their product isn't all that good at the moment. At the peak of the Attitude Era they could have kept people tuning in for as much content as they could pump out, but that's not where they are right now. Asking people to give up so much of their lives to watch wrestling isn't reasonable.

    There isn't a good solution to this because so much of their revenue is dependent on TV rights fees. But I think it's an example of short term gain causing longterm problems.

  18. #18
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    usa
    There's also a show on the Network called "This Week in WWE"

    http://network.wwe.com/shows/in-ring/this-week-in-wwe

    Someone could watch that once a week and then the Special PPV Events...

  19. #19
    Isaiah 40:30-31 Hero!'s Avatar
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    This week in WWE is solid. Also, the WWE YouTube channel is the best way to watch everything in no time.

  20. #20
    Main Eventer chatty's Avatar
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    I've watched for the last few weeks after about a years break (two really since I stopped watching the weekly shows before that.

    Anyway they have way too much time to fill to the point its impossible. I watched the Jericho/Owens clips and thought they were funny and they are but it seems like they just go through the same segment every week.

    AJ v Ambrose with Ellsworth has been the same script for weeks. Everybody has practically faced each other so many times the last few years that when you look at some of the matches its hard to get excited for them.

    I understand why they do it though. They take as much TV time as they get offered because they get paid well and then try and overload the Network for subs.

    The key is to just pick your segments and watch on delay so you don't over-saturate your watching but that kind of kills the live aspect of wrestling which was always one of the biggest factors to drawing people in.

    Don't really see a solution coming unless they can sort of change the format of the PPVs (or whatver they are called these days) so that the big ones stand out from the smaller shows. I know they do anyway but more ina way that they are viewed differently rather than just a PPV every two weeks which seems rather meaningless.

  21. #21
    Main Eventer chatty's Avatar
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    And to emphasise the live aspect of wrestling I remember when I used to sit up to watch it like it was can't miss TV, these days contemplating watching it live doesn't even factor.

  22. #22
    ◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤◥◤ Bill Casey's Avatar
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    usa
    Quote Originally Posted by Hero! View Post
    This week in WWE is solid. Also, the WWE YouTube channel is the best way to watch everything in no time.
    Yeah, youtube clips is another way to watch a condensed version of RAW and SmackDown...
    WWE has made consumption of their product very malleable...

  23. #23
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cewsh View Post
    Everyday?
    No, that would be... too much.

  24. #24
    Intercontinental Champion Andrew6586's Avatar
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    I think there should be an off season. Maybe during football season when their ratings are down. Come back in January ready to rock n roll.

  25. #25
    President of sex
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew6586 View Post
    I think there should be an off season. Maybe during football season when their ratings are down. Come back in January ready to rock n roll.
    I've always thought that instead of an off season, they could have 3/4 of the roster working at all times and 1/4 of the roster could be off a quarter of the year, rotating out.

  26. #26
    R.I.P Vader Eddie Brock's Avatar
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    RAW two hours, SmackDown two hours. Special edition RAW a two and a half hour RAW. WrestleMania, SummerSlam, Halloween Havoc, Survivor Series, Royal Rumble should be the only PPVs going with builds for all the events. 3 or 4 Saturday Night's Main Event from locations in Canada and the U.K.

  27. #27
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stylepoints View Post
    I've always thought that instead of an off season, they could have 3/4 of the roster working at all times and 1/4 of the roster could be off a quarter of the year, rotating out.
    Offseason would also benefit creative and give the fans a sense of 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' as well.

  28. #28
    I'm Spinning Around! sam_elmendorf's Avatar
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    I remembered a few weeks ago that RAW & Smackdown are on Hulu. Started watching RAW again and it's edited and I can still ff through shit I don't care about. Same with Smackers on Wednesday. Then you wait for the PPV's to start, wait an hour and just hit ff every so often if a match or segment is dragging or not your liking. Stay away from the rajah threads until you watch and then put in your 2 cents if you feel the need to after watching. WWE has become much more tolerable since.

  29. #29
    Captain Sasori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    Too much for me? No.

    Too much for the marketplace to the point it has over saturated itself? Yes.
    And this is why they're cutting back on PPVs next year.

  30. #30
    I'm Spinning Around! sam_elmendorf's Avatar
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    By only 2 right?

  31. #31
    Intercontinental Champion TooCool's Avatar
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    It's a lot but with the brand split it really helps lighten the load.

    Before the 2nd brand split, you got RAW which was already a chore to tune into.. and then you got Smackdown which was pointless because they did rematches from RAW with wins being traded. I was honestly only enjoying NXT yet I'd still tune into WWE PPVs.

    Now with the brand split, I can completely forego RAW because it's boring and I'm not going to waste 3+ hours of my night watching it. I'll settle with reading the results and I'm okay with that. Smackdown is fun again and that's all that matters to me. I care about that show and the 2 hours zip by. So I just watch Smackdown and NXT along with the PPVs. That's just enough wrestling for me in a week.

  32. #32
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    WWE's answer to every problem seems to be 'more product'. It is ridiculous. Two PPVs a month, God-knows how much TV, seven hour long Wrestlemania. They lost me when they moved Raw to three hours and I'm someone who has literally only watched one episode of Smackdown this decade so it wasn't like I was at that point consuming everything they were putting out.

    They need to be smarter with the three hours they have on Monday - have the third hour be Cruiserweight or tag only and bill it differently. Scale back on the PPVs now that they have the Network and supplement them with Network specials and a couple more NXT shows. Each show should feel special, then you can sell it as being special and people will be more inclined to watch.

  33. #33
    Nice
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    I'd be more than happy with a main roster PPV per month and a NXT PPV every other month

  34. #34
    Isaiah 40:30-31 Hero!'s Avatar
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    usa
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    WWE's answer to every problem seems to be 'more product'. It is ridiculous. Two PPVs a month, God-knows how much TV, seven hour long Wrestlemania. They lost me when they moved Raw to three hours and I'm someone who has literally only watched one episode of Smackdown this decade so it wasn't like I was at that point consuming everything they were putting out.

    They need to be smarter with the three hours they have on Monday - have the third hour be Cruiserweight or tag only and bill it differently. Scale back on the PPVs now that they have the Network and supplement them with Network specials and a couple more NXT shows. Each show should feel special, then you can sell it as being special and people will be more inclined to watch.
    We're at the point where it's 3 hour RAW on Monday, 3 hours of SD and 205Live on Tuesday, an hour of NXT on Wednesday, and Main Event every Friday(?). Then theres 2 PPVs a month and an NXT special every quarter. Then they also have talking smack, raw post-show, raw pre-show, youtube videos with backstage segments and bonus interviews all as supplements to RAW and Smackdown.

    There's a lot of WWE to watch if you wanna keep up with everything. Then again, if you only wanna follow the barebones story, you can watch Youtube highlights of each show in 20 minutes. For some people, they like watching every single thing they can, others prefer to watch highlights and catch the PPVs. I think WWE's philosophy is that they run the industry, they gotta supply enough content to fill the needs of fans from casual to hardcore.

  35. #35
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Yes. There is no need for the cruiserweights show. Raw is a three hour death march. Smackdown needs more talent to flesh it out. I like Smackdown, but after last night its clear they need good face talent on every level.

  36. #36
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    But when wrestling is at its best it is because it is 'must watch' TV. When I was getting into WWE I would not have missed an episode - it used to annoy me that we didn't get the pre-PPV Sunday Night Heat and that I'd miss out on one hour a month of television. Not because I wanted to watch Gangrel vs D'Lo Brown but because something could happen storywise and I'd miss out on it.

    Nowadays I can only watch Raw on the catch-up service here meaning it's the trimmed down 90 minute version of the show, which is great in one way but still means that someone else is making an editing choice over which angles and matches are shown to me.

    If you condition your audience that they can dip in and out then you condition them that they are not missing out on anything if they skip a section here or there, or a show, or a PPV and suddenly they're another former fan who they have to get Rock or Austin on TV to shock them back into viewing.

    They have a Network to fill which i get but they don't have to produce as much core TV content as they do. They are choosing to do it and it is a mistake.

  37. #37
    World Champion Donald's Avatar
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    It's the current age, where people want as much as they can get.

    Yeah ideally I'd love it to be 2 hour RAW, and 2 hour Smackdown, and a monthly PPV, but they are trying to give people options and I applaud them for that.

  38. #38
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Is Raw still 3 hours long? That is the most ridiculous thing ever.

  39. #39
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    I've been without the internet for 2 weeks, so this is the first time since 1994 that I've had no access to the current product.

    Can't say I've missed it exactly, but I do want to see the Sasha/Charlotte main event from Raw last week and I'll watch TLC and 205 Live.

    Going forward, I won't have Sky Sports 5, which is the channel we get Raw and Smackdown on. I can still view a 2 hour version of Raw and the full Smackdown on the I-pad, but I'm not convinced I'll bother.

    I think I'll always watch PPVs and Network/NXT Specials.

  40. #40
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Is Raw still 3 hours long? That is the most ridiculous thing ever.
    It's actually more like 3 hours and 15 minutes.

    Redonkulous.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I've been without the internet for 2 weeks, so this is the first time since 1994 that I've had no access to the current product.

    Can't say I've missed it exactly, but I do want to see the Sasha/Charlotte main event from Raw last week and I'll watch TLC and 205 Live.

    Going forward, I won't have Sky Sports 5, which is the channel we get Raw and Smackdown on. I can still view a 2 hour version of Raw and the full Smackdown on the I-pad, but I'm not convinced I'll bother.

    I think I'll always watch PPVs and Network/NXT Specials.
    Hulu is great for watching a 2 hour version of Raw and Smackdown the day after they air.

  42. #42
    World Champion Murphy's Avatar
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    yugoslavia
    Hulu isn't available over here. Not easily/legally anyway.

    Like I said, I can get it on the I-pad on another Sky TV account, but I can't see myself watching any more than the odd segment/match on that.

  43. #43
    Save Fat Wrestlers! Kure's Avatar
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    I make it through Raw and Smackdown on Hulu most weeks. That is about it. Three hours of Raw, two of Smackdown, Superstars, Main Event, both of the Talk Shows, 205 Live, and NXT. Just to keep up with WWE is like ten hours a week, plus another three or four on PPV weekends. It's practically a part time job. I wonder if they think of it like the NFL, where they don't really expect you to see every game.

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    I don't watch Raw, but dip in to a segment or match if it sounds interesting. Talking Smack is a must and Smackdown too if I have time.

    Short answer, yes there is too much.

  45. #45
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasori View Post
    And this is why they're cutting back on PPVs next year.
    Except they're not. Initial reports were that they were, then it was that there'd be more, and then most recently that it's basically the same number.

    I'll agree with the sentiment that the amount of stuff they put out gives people options and folks can get as much or as little as they prefer, so I can't fault them for that. However, I will say that for me personally, there's too much and it's killed my interest a fair bit on the whole. I haven't been watching any weekly WWE TV for years now, just the Youtube highlights that interest me and reading the results, occasionally I'll catch a live one if I'm home alone with no plans. We used to make a point of meeting with friends for every PPV pre-brand split but now there are too many and the group interest is primarily on the joint events only and I'm not really bothering with RAW PPVs on my own (skipped HIAC and don't really give a shit about Roadbloack).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Romford Pele View Post
    I don't watch Raw, but dip in to a segment or match if it sounds interesting. Talking Smack is a must and Smackdown too if I have time.

    Short answer, yes there is too much.
    When is Smackdown shown over here now?

  47. #47
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  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    When is Smackdown shown over here now?
    I you tube it a day or 2 after. Is it not on Sky Sports? I don't have it anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
    LIVE!
    But I assume its main UK broadcast is Thursday or Friday still? I need to wait for it to be on SkyGo which is after then.

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    Yeah, LIVE on Sky Sports 5. Think the repeat is Friday and Saturday nights. At least it was a few months back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefy View Post
    But I assume its main UK broadcast is Thursday or Friday still? I need to wait for it to be on SkyGo which is after then.
    LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol, umm not sure about repeat.

  53. #53
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    There is faaaaaaaar too much. I haven't watched a weekly show for a while now and it's not because of the lack of talent as I think the company probably have the best depth they've ever had in terms of talent but there's too overexposure to the point that it's turned me off.

    I think going to Mania this year is some sort of last hurrah for me. I just don't have the inclination to keep up with it anymore when there's so much content. it's become a chore to watch at least an average of 8 hours a week of just wrestling plus all the other bits that go along with it.

    Oddly though I'm going through PROGRESS shows like they are running out which maybe is just indicating that my tastes have changed.

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    POGRESSSSSS WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

  55. #55
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    Can't be a good sign that the first thing I think I'm gonna do when I get my internet and TV back on Friday is watch Northampton Saints Vs Leinster in the rugby union Champions Cup. Not TLC, not 205 live, but rugby union.

  56. #56
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    There's way too much at the moment. If anything the Network only emphasises how thinly it's spread and how weak this makes the shows - when the current product is crap, as it has been for a while, there's hundreds of hours of old shows you know and love to revisit and reminisce about.

    The problem is, by expanding the number of PPVs they've achieved the opposite of what they intended; actually reducing the number of must-see PPVs. When PPVs were once a month, you felt like every one was an important event, with enough build to make most matches feel important. Now there are so many that it's almost gone back to the days when you had four big PPVs around which storylines were built, with everything else an afterthought. And there's nothing wrong with that in theory - centring the product around a handful of huge events throughout the year is absolutely fine as an idea, but they're trying to have their cake and eat by promoting every PPV as a major event with contrived, half-baked storylines which aren't fleshed out enough to feel like big deals.

    As for the TV shows...yeah, obviously way too long. I'm sure there are plenty of people who gobble up every bit of wrestling they can, and more power to them...but every single Raw and Smackdown could easily be cut down to two hours without losing anything - as viewers we're not seeing an extra hour's worth of action and storyline, we're just seeing two hours' worth dragged out for 50% longer. When I think back to the early 2000s it felt like every show was packed full of stuff, you couldn't take your eyes off it for a second because it was so fast-paced. Now it's a lot slower, but not with any of the benefits of that approach. It's not more intelligent, it's not more fleshed out, it's just slower. Loads of irrelevant shit, loads of repetitive matches because they need to get three hours' worth of action but don't have enough wrestlers they're willing to get behind (particularly with the women - the women's division of Raw is incredibly tedious, with what feels like a variation of the same match every single week.

  57. #57
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    I've said for a while that they don't take advantage of "the Universe" enough. Regulars shouldn't be jobbing on TV when they can bring in old guys to do the business. That's what Smackdown has done well lately, gets the novelty pop in then gets the new act over. New Day could be wrestling MNM or Charlotte could be wrestling Victoria rather than giving Anderson and Gallows another loss. This current lot need to go on long runs of no jobs on TV, 50/50 has just killed viable stars.

  58. #58
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I think in terms of original programming they're fine. Raw, Smackdown, and NXT, 3 shows, all 3 offer something different especially NXT. In terms of overall content, nobody is ever going to be able to watch everything the Network offers especially the old stuff. That's like saying there's too much rock music because you have access to present day plus everything that has came out in the last 70 years. You're never going to be able to listen to it all but it's great that it is available to you. I think there are too many crime drama shows, yet those shows do better numbers than any other original programming to my knowledge.

    Even now that I'm going to be 35 and don't have the time like I would if I were 15-20, that's ok because I love the variety the Network offers. I don't mind that I miss a Raw or Smackdown because there's ways to see it whether it's when they put it on the Network or Youtube or reading it on wrestling sites of what I may have missed. I'm jealous of my sons who are 15 and 12 and when I was their age if I had the Network, Oh fuck that would be a dream come true. The best I had was Sega Channel lol. But with the lack of video stores to rent wrestling, I mean even Redbox doesn't have wrestling available how fucked is that? You need the Network or hope someone older has a VCR or buys the shit out of the blu rays/DVDs lol.

    I didn't answer the poll because my answer is NO, but that doesn't mean I want MORE. That just means I'm content but if they did add more, awesome, if they had less, eh, not so great but I'd be fine. I don't know if there's the right amount because it just depends on what they add or take away. If they took away 205 Live, so be it. If they added 4 more ppvs, depending on the WHY, cool.

  59. #59
    Truth teller virms's Avatar
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    germany
    Yes.

  60. #60
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    I would definitely cut back to one pay-per-view per month. Network is already a great deal, no need to overload it with two PPVs every month. They can either make all the PPVs have both Raw and Smackdown on them or just alternate months.

    I'd love to see Raw cut back to two hours. Two hours is the perfect length for a weekly wrestling show. Enough time to get everyone you need on the show, plenty of time for a couple longer matches, enough time to tell one coherent story throughout the night.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I think in terms of original programming they're fine. Raw, Smackdown, and NXT, 3 shows, all 3 offer something different especially NXT. In terms of overall content, nobody is ever going to be able to watch everything the Network offers especially the old stuff. That's like saying there's too much rock music because you have access to present day plus everything that has came out in the last 70 years. You're never going to be able to listen to it all but it's great that it is available to you. I think there are too many crime drama shows, yet those shows do better numbers than any other original programming to my knowledge.

    Even now that I'm going to be 35 and don't have the time like I would if I were 15-20, that's ok because I love the variety the Network offers. I don't mind that I miss a Raw or Smackdown because there's ways to see it whether it's when they put it on the Network or Youtube or reading it on wrestling sites of what I may have missed. I'm jealous of my sons who are 15 and 12 and when I was their age if I had the Network, Oh fuck that would be a dream come true. The best I had was Sega Channel lol. But with the lack of video stores to rent wrestling, I mean even Redbox doesn't have wrestling available how fucked is that? You need the Network or hope someone older has a VCR or buys the shit out of the blu rays/DVDs lol.

    I didn't answer the poll because my answer is NO, but that doesn't mean I want MORE. That just means I'm content but if they did add more, awesome, if they had less, eh, not so great but I'd be fine. I don't know if there's the right amount because it just depends on what they add or take away. If they took away 205 Live, so be it. If they added 4 more ppvs, depending on the WHY, cool.


    This much programming isn't meant for busy 30-somethings, it's meant for kids who are bored and wanna watch as much wrestling as they can. I used to spend hours reading the wrestling mags and watching rented tapes from Blockbuster. If I had access to a 24/7-on demand WWE channel at 9 years olds, I would never watch anything else.

  62. #62
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    There's far too much product, but more importantly not enough of it is worth going out of my way to watch. I'd watch a 3 hour show if I was invested in most of the characters and storylines and wasn't seeing the same fights over and over again. The number of PPVs is absurd and it has killed their ability to make a really compelling narrative over time, because it's just an endless cycle of repetitive feuds and matches which damage the credibility of most of the roster. Beefy's point about the edited shows allowing you to dip in and out is really good. I've tried the youtube clips or shorter versions of the shows, but it only emphasises how little of the product is appealing to me right now. It's been annoying to see WWE rely on older stars year after year when they have such a great talent pool at their disposal, but on the other hand I'd absolutely love The Rock to show up right now and Rock Bottom everyone in sight. I'd love that.

  63. #63
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    I agree, I'm a tad hypocritical like that, and I think most of us are, to be fair. I keep saying "build around new stars," but then when Taker shows up on Smackdown and says "I'm back," I pee a little in my pants.

    As far as 3-hour Raws go, I think we all want them shortened, and we all know it won't happen because of the money WWE gets from USA. But here's a good way to look at it: VERY rarely do movies go three hours long, and if they do, they better be a damn epic like Titanic or Godfather II, etc. But Raw is never epic anymore and it runs 15 minutes over! That's the part that pisses me off more than anything. They struggle to make two compelling hours, but feel the need to run over a third.

  64. #64
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    The weird thing is, back in the 90s I always wished for a wrestling channel, and how I thought about watching it all the time, now with the Network I can do that, but all I think is "Fuck off with your Ride Along crap WWE." Really just watch the specials, even then only portions of it, and maybe the odd old RAW here and then.

  65. #65
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    Raw not utilising their allotted time effectively and too many PPVs are my only real concerns as far as volume goes (though it seems they may be cutting down on that. Other than that, it's like a pick n mix.

  66. #66
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I think that if the product was all around fire and must see that the amount of content outside of the Network exclusive stuff (old ppvs, specials, etc.) would be even better. Adding ppvs or subtracting ppvs doesn't really matter if the product overall isn't that great. They weren't able to really produce compelling must see entertainment with 12 ppvs. If they made it only 8, it still wouldn't matter. You don't really see wrestling fans going "If only they would make me wait 2 months to see them wrestle". Even older fans like my age group to about 55, we mostly came up in the era where you were getting wrestling all the time whether it was NWA/WCW, WWF, AWA, ECW, cable changed the game back in the 80's. Then you factor in tapes, tape trading, as time goes by wrestling becomes easier to access and you didn't just have to read about it in PWI.

    As I said, if I'm a younger guy with no real life, I'd probably want even more or wouldn't mind at all how much they have on television and ppv. It's the fact that the product itself is not super hot so when you have 5 hours of original programming just on USA alone 2 days in a row, that might be a lot. It's not a less is more argument really, it's a matter of, would it be an issue if wrestling was white hot. Back in 1998-2000 WWF I would have loved a 3rd hour for Raw. I loved Nitro being 3 hours because they were able to do a great job at pacing the show. Yes the show started to suck but then I believe they scaled back to 2 hours right?

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I think that if the product was all around fire and must see that the amount of content outside of the Network exclusive stuff (old ppvs, specials, etc.) would be even better. Adding ppvs or subtracting ppvs doesn't really matter if the product overall isn't that great. They weren't able to really produce compelling must see entertainment with 12 ppvs. If they made it only 8, it still wouldn't matter. You don't really see wrestling fans going "If only they would make me wait 2 months to see them wrestle". Even older fans like my age group to about 55, we mostly came up in the era where you were getting wrestling all the time whether it was NWA/WCW, WWF, AWA, ECW, cable changed the game back in the 80's. Then you factor in tapes, tape trading, as time goes by wrestling becomes easier to access and you didn't just have to read about it in PWI.

    As I said, if I'm a younger guy with no real life, I'd probably want even more or wouldn't mind at all how much they have on television and ppv. It's the fact that the product itself is not super hot so when you have 5 hours of original programming just on USA alone 2 days in a row, that might be a lot. It's not a less is more argument really, it's a matter of, would it be an issue if wrestling was white hot. Back in 1998-2000 WWF I would have loved a 3rd hour for Raw. I loved Nitro being 3 hours because they were able to do a great job at pacing the show. Yes the show started to suck but then I believe they scaled back to 2 hours right?
    Back when AWA NWA etc were alive they were quality alternate options so there was a smaller window for product burnout. Today's product is poor and every show is the same shit, even with the brand split everything is still created under the WWE protocol.

  68. #68
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    I think that if the product was all around fire and must see that the amount of content outside of the Network exclusive stuff (old ppvs, specials, etc.) would be even better. Adding ppvs or subtracting ppvs doesn't really matter if the product overall isn't that great. They weren't able to really produce compelling must see entertainment with 12 ppvs. If they made it only 8, it still wouldn't matter. You don't really see wrestling fans going "If only they would make me wait 2 months to see them wrestle". Even older fans like my age group to about 55, we mostly came up in the era where you were getting wrestling all the time whether it was NWA/WCW, WWF, AWA, ECW, cable changed the game back in the 80's. Then you factor in tapes, tape trading, as time goes by wrestling becomes easier to access and you didn't just have to read about it in PWI.

    As I said, if I'm a younger guy with no real life, I'd probably want even more or wouldn't mind at all how much they have on television and ppv. It's the fact that the product itself is not super hot so when you have 5 hours of original programming just on USA alone 2 days in a row, that might be a lot. It's not a less is more argument really, it's a matter of, would it be an issue if wrestling was white hot. Back in 1998-2000 WWF I would have loved a 3rd hour for Raw. I loved Nitro being 3 hours because they were able to do a great job at pacing the show. Yes the show started to suck but then I believe they scaled back to 2 hours right?
    Reducing the number of PPVs would help contribute towards the "Is there too much" going on as the thread question asks. Improving the quality of the product within is a different question and I agree there's work to be done there.

  69. #69
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Hammer View Post
    Back when AWA NWA etc were alive they were quality alternate options so there was a smaller window for product burnout. Today's product is poor and every show is the same shit, even with the brand split everything is still created under the WWE protocol.
    Exactly. But we're also older, shit you and I were trying to watch MMA AND pro wrestling (well I'm not sure how much pro wrestling you watch these days) while balancing kids, jobs. But I also think today you have access to quality alternatives. The WWE Network gives you NXT but you also have old shows of WCW, ECW, AWA, Smokey Mountain, etc. Then you have Ring of Honor on TV, you have TNA, you can watch New Japan and countless other promotions via streaming services, even channels that air that programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Reducing the number of PPVs would help contribute towards the "Is there too much" going on as the thread question asks. Improving the quality of the product within is a different question and I agree there's work to be done there.
    But everyone who is saying there's too much ppv, well not everyone but a huge chunk follow it up with the product being lackluster which is WHY there is too much. If the product overall was great, there's evidence that shows 12 ppvs, 5-8 hours of original programming on t.v. alone is not that big of a deal. It's when the product sucks and you have 18 ppvs, 5 hours of original programming on USA, that's just the 2 brands not even counting NXT or 205 Live, then people are like "It's too much." When I was 15-16, there wasn't even remotely enough pro wrestling and we had ECW, WCW, and WWE on ppv and t.v. with more hours of content than the WWE are doing. But there was variety which is what I had been talking about and what MH is talking about above.

  70. #70
    Furry, Filthy and Fun Badger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel
    But everyone who is saying there's too much ppv, well not everyone but a huge chunk follow it up with the product being lackluster which is WHY there is too much. If the product overall was great, there's evidence that shows 12 ppvs, 5-8 hours of original programming on t.v. alone is not that big of a deal. It's when the product sucks and you have 18 ppvs, 5 hours of original programming on USA, that's just the 2 brands not even counting NXT or 205 Live, then people are like "It's too much." When I was 15-16, there wasn't even remotely enough pro wrestling and we had ECW, WCW, and WWE on ppv and t.v. with more hours of content than the WWE are doing. But there was variety which is what I had been talking about and what MH is talking about above.
    I think even if we had 18 PPVs even if the booking was better if you tried to take it all in at once. Cutting the PPVs will help a bit at least. I'm a far more casual follower of Raw these days, but Smackdown to me is more palatable and better making use of their time slot. Raw I skip through chunks of it like other people. Often I just go back and watch old shit if I don't like the present, or watch more of the sideshows like Table for 3.

    Essentialy, I'm agreeing that there's too much overall these days with the PPVs and all, but I feel burnoit is more personal choice.
    Last edited by Badger; December 5th, 2016 at 5:43 PM.

  71. #71
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I think even if we had 18 PPVs even if the booking was better if you tried to take it all in at once. Cutting the PPVs will help a bit at least. I'm a far more casual follower of Raw these days, but Smackdown to me is more palatable and better making use of their time slot. Raw I skip through chunks of it like other people. Often I just go back and watch old shit if I don't like the present, or watch more of the sideshows like Table for 3.

    Essentialy, I'm agreeing that there's too much overall these days with the PPVs and all, but I feel burnoit is more personal choice.
    Honestly, I personally don't mind the number of ppvs and hours of Raw/Smackdown. Mainly because I'm at an age and stage in my life where I have so much going on I can't control it. Plus I don't have DVR anymore so I really have no choice lol. I look at the ppvs as the same as the family getting together to watch football or other sports or their favorite t.v. show. When I was growing up that was the thing, my mom was into it as well and she'd make us homemade pizzas and we'd have family and friends over...Some would be like "Oh my God wrestling haha fake haha" but then they were still watching it and enjoying it in a different way by shitting on it lol. That's how it is now in the sense that I look forward to ppvs because then my sons and I are jacked for it, my gf will usually make something like wings or pizza or burgers and we make a big deal out of it, especially the bigger ppvs.

    Seriously, I could watch the Network all fucking day and night. Even when wrestling was white hot, there were times where you were like "fuck I need a break" but you never took a break lol. The break would be putting on a classic ppv that you rented or had on tape and then all would be right with the world. There was a time where I could not have given a fuck less if Stone Cold wasn't on Raw wrestling The Undertaker or The Rock doing his thing or Foley doing his thing. Then you would turn on Nitro and you're not giving a fuck about Nash or the nWo or whoever. But we're passionate about it so we grind it out. There def can be too much of a good thing, but it's better than too much of a bad thing and that's easy to tell just by the ratings. People aren't tuning out because there are less hours of WWE programming than there were on your t.v. during the Attitude Era (They had like 4 shows going at once on t.v. rounding out to be about 6+ hours a week). It's just that it's not as good to most "fans".

  72. #72
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    There is definitely an argument that the content is not as good as it once was which can be attributed to a number of reasons in my mind (lack of competition, pg environment, controlled creative environment, lack of full time star power), but the fact that Raw is 3 hours long is a problem too.

    3 hours of live television to produce each week is a hell of an ask, and with the above reasons thrown in, Raw is very rarely must see anymore. There may be a segment or match worth checking out, but would you put yourself through the 3 hours to see it? No.

    PPVs are the same. I started watching TLC but had to have a break after the ladder match as after Survivor Series, Talking Smack and watching some of the archive stuff I had had enough. One PPV per month is about right. It gives each brand plenty of time to build strong feuds for the next PPV and also gives that possibility that something out of the ordinary might happen in the meantime.

    ND, you mention Rock/Austin/Taker/Mankind/NWO etc, all big draws. Another reason it isn't must see anymore to me is that there is no-one full time who is at that level.

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