Are you happy about this?!Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
This is worse than the wally with the brolley
Gareth Southgate
Are you happy about this?!
This is worse than the wally with the brolley
Don't forget Kevin Nolan.
Must be so shite being Scottish.
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Last edited by Peter Griffin; July 21st, 2016 at 9:33 AM. Reason: fuck it
Can you honestly sit there and tell me that Sam Allardyce was the best option on the planet for the FA to choose?
This is like putting a van driver in a formula 1 car
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Last edited by Peter Griffin; July 21st, 2016 at 9:43 AM. Reason: Beefy is a masssive cunt
Yeah we'll remember that next time you're going nuts about something some Nottingham Forest fan you'll never meet has said about Derby.
Close the forums lads, people are dying in Turkey.
Last edited by Beefy; July 22nd, 2016 at 8:47 AM.
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Last edited by Peter Griffin; July 21st, 2016 at 9:33 AM. Reason: fuck it
Looking forward to reading this edit
Disappointing - I was expecting a full meltdown.
incorrect its fucking brilliant.
i honestly think you should give up following football. all you do is fucking moan about it. do somethings that give you joy.
think about this...
my team has been genuinely destroyed over the last 5 years and has also played some of the worst football i've ever seen.
then add on that my country has been garbage during my existence on this planet.
so surely it should be me having a right good moan.
TAPS AFF!
edit it back in.Looking forward to reading this edit
Disappointing - I was expecting a full meltdown.
TAPS AFF!
But instead you take pleasure in seeing England fans moan?
Like others have said before, expectation is all relative. Scotland is a small country with a very limited talent pool - therefore the expectation is that you will be shite (granted 20+ years ago you did have a good side though)
England is a different story. No one (apart from tossers who write at the Sun/Star and the like) thinks they have a divine right to win anything, but we should be competitive, and in the very least not run by incompetent buffoons.
If Sam Allardyce is really the best manager the FA can get then we are all fucked.
Not really. I doubt his appointment as England manager will have any impact on my life. I certainly doubt it would leave me 'fucked'.
It's definitely having a negative impact on my life already. Everything was going so well.
You have taken this really badly to be fair. Everything will remain the same, I promise. We'll qualify for the world cup, scrape through the group then lose in the knockouts as usual.
And we'll do it all with Kevin Davies up front.
The football will be even more shite to watch (amazing I know)
What are you basing that on?
Every side 'Big Sam' has ever managed?
But that's not entirely accurate is it. I'd argue that except for his Blackburn side and Bolton for a year he's played some reasonable football with the sides he's managed. Mik will probably be more aware than me but Sunderland didn't play bad football last season, Newcastle weren't a long ball side and his time at West Ham was largely good apart from the last season where he was hounded out.
I don't think that he's going to win us the world cup, but I don't think any manager in the world would. He'll make us competitive, give us a style of play that doesn't mean we'll be undone by any team worse than us and will probably bring some sort of spirit to the job which has been massively lacking in the past 10 years.
I certainly wouldn't describe this as a 'dark day' or us 'all being fucked' and I think you might be giving in to some sort of melodrama there.
Especially as the starting point isnt exactly very high is it?
The football at West Ham from day one was long ball and the fans hated it. Blackburn and Newcastle both were poor to watch and at Bolton the only ray of light was Jay Jay Okocha. His style of football is pretty much the same as Tony Pulis.
Again all of that isn't true.
His Bolton side were the ugliest football team since the Premier League was formed. This nonsense about Okacha and Djorkaeff seems to have clouded people's memories. He was the poster boy for long-ball 4-5-1.
His autobiography preaches that the most effective way to score goals is with moves of fewer than four passes. He's a fucking dinosaur.
Yep. BBF you are miles off on this one, Bolton were horrendous to watch. He's always had a skilful player or two because you do actually need to score a few goals to stay in the league, but it tended to be one or two decent players in front of nine workhorses who lumped it. It's not a myth, we all remember it.
His style of play was exactly what was required to keep that club in that league at that time. He left Bolton 10 years ago and since then has only resorted to that brand of football once (at Blackburn) again because that was the requirement for that club at that time.
Again,I'm not saying he is a master tactician and will win us the World Cup but to say he is a dinosaur or use a phrase last used to describe hooliganism earlier this summer is way off the mark. His training methods are up to date, potentially more so than a percentage of coaches in the Premier League, he achieves the objective at each club (bar a Newcastle side in 2007 that was run by a gibbon, and where he actually tried to promote more attractive football but was lumbered with a 84 year old Mark Viduka as his main striker) and has a reasonable record across the past 10 years (averaging a shade under 2 goals a game).
He is probably the best, REALISTIC choice available but to be honest his coaching team is potentially even more important than he is. I also think it's vitally important that he has done the shit jobs through the english leagues and has a number of viable alternatives when it comes to style of play, something that most people accused Hodgson of lacking this summer.
I may be imagining this but himself and Phil Brown pretty much bought sports science into football in the UK at Bolton right?
Did you miss his West Ham team? Their fans hated the way that they played under him.
Being honest I didn't really watch Sunderland so I've no idea what he played there but if we're saying that he only played long ball at Bolton, Blackburn and West Ham then that's 90% of his recent management career.
Yeah that's right. They were certainly the most high-profile users of the prozone stats.
Honestly West Ham's football wasn't that bad under him. It really, really wasn't.
His training methods are better than someone like Klopp I would say. He used yoga and supplements WAY before anyone else, he was a champion for statistical analysis and data when Prozone was 2 blokes in a garage and his set piece preparation is on point (as seen by the way he improved Sunderland last year). He's also a massive disciplinarian, which is probably what the egocentric England players need.
I don't think he is our lord and saviour but he's also not a dinosaur or the person who will lead this fine country back to the dark ages like some are making out.
I think it might have been McClaren
The same Andy Carroll that Allardyce said
"Carroll could be an ever better player if he pushed himself and put the work in. He tells you he does - but he doesn't always do it,"
"He treats life a little bit too casually. He also gets himself into situations off the pitch which a manager can do without - and so can he."
Doesn't sound like he's a fan of Carroll's as for Shawcross its a travesty hes been ignored for as long as he has as he has been the best and most consistent english centre back for the past few seasons. But he got judged thanks to a 16 minute spell where Ibrahimovic took the piss.
Last edited by Gary J; July 21st, 2016 at 2:29 PM.
I enjoyed watching Sunderland more since Allardyce took over than any other time in the past 5-10 years...albeit that the standard isnt much to compare against.
Erm....is he wrong though?
Of course its the most effective way. I assume his book is just about stating the obvious?
Oh and West Ham fans hated how they played because West Ham fans are bellends who think they are this massive paragon of footballing purity even though they are a yo yo club who have won fuck all. (except the World Cup obviously....)
Fuck West Ham. I for one welcome your new massive headed overlord.
Last edited by MMH; July 21st, 2016 at 2:26 PM.
Papers over here are stating that Steven Gerrard has been lined up as Allardyce's assistant.
Somehow they've managed to make me dislike this appointment even more.
Remember ten years ago when Allardyce wasn't considered good enough for the job? That was at the height of his success, and he's never been that good since.
Horrible.
I hope Allardyce plays Andy Carroll and Jermaine Defoe up front, puts 2 fingers up to the crowd then pumps his fists.
He'll do an adequate job.
I love this notion of "we always knew we'd never win anything anyway" that's all of a sudden started. Hilarious.
I hope Big Sam is brilliant and wins everything and then tell you all you're a bunch of English bastards.
Why I hate this appointment so much is that it takes way the illusion of hope. Since Sven resigned we've been largely shite but there's always been a chink of possible light somewhere to shine through. You hope Schteve would build on what came before, having been a part of that group. Capello had pedigree at some of the world's biggest clubs and a history of winning things. Roy had at least some history of managing big clubs and was generally well liked.
But this, this is an admission of mediocrity. We're not very good, we're not going to be very good, so we get a manager who's never managed at the top and hasn't ever won a thing.
Beige. That's what we are now, beige.
I suppose he won promotion with Bolton. Yay.
In light of everything you've posted above, is it not time to recognise that prior club performance is not the best indicator of potential international management success?
DING DING DING
It's obviously more complex than simply getting a successful manager in, but when judging possible successful candidates the most obvious initial check you're going to make is of like for like performance. If they have no international experience then you have to go on their club performance. Again, beige. We've hired the man whose specialty is not being relegated into a role where the only criteria is to win things. It's a little counter-intuitive. On that basis alone I'd have gone for Bruce over Allardyce (not biased at all, honest guv').
Like everyone and their mother, I'll be more than happy if I have to eat these words in two years time.
You said hasn't managed at the top though? Bruce hasn't either. Does a league cup really mean fuck all in deciding who is going to be the best to look after the international team?
Yes, I think it does. It's proof that you can take a team through a knockout competition right to the end, which is the entire point of international football.
Don't get me wrong here, as much as I'd have taken Bruce over Allardyce I'd hardly still be swinging from the chandeliers. It highlights again the paucity of great home grown managers.
Or to the final at least. And more promotions.
I just really dislike Allardyce. Like, irrationally so.
A domestic cup is won over a season. An international cup is won over a short space of time. Allardyce has proven that he can get a squad playing cohesively over a short amount of time when the pressure is on.
The snobbery of England fans amazes me.
If you are just looking at club achievements as an indicator then Allardyce has won the playoffs twice and got what people are referring to as a 'shocking' Bolton side to Europe.
Prior to his appointment Fernando Santos won the Primeira Liga almost 20 years ago. Now he's the manager of the European Champions. Maybe, just maybe club football and international football are entirely different monsters and the two aren't indicative of success within each other.
Snobbery? From the guy who didn't want Eddie Howe as Everton manager because he did't come from the German Third Division? Scenes.
It is not snobbery to not want a guy who is an actual cunt, an actual crook and who produces horrible, horrible teams to be in what was once the top job in English football.
Beefy 1-0 MMH
Trying to look at it objectively, I'm weighing up the pros and cons of Allardyce getting the job.
-Back-to-basics style of football should make qualification near-guaranteed, particularly given how easy it is to qualify nowadays anyway.
-Defensive setup will mask the deficiencies of a defence which is the weak point of the side.
-Has a bit of bollocks about him which should hopefully mean he'll pick his own players and not be led by the FA or the media.
-Has been at the lower-end of the PL most of his career, so should have a greater respect for the talented players at that level, offering greater hope to less known players who outperform bigger names.
-Might be motivated to prove the doubters wrong by using the talented players at his disposal to play decent football.
-If not, long-ball is at least an effective tactic when you've got someone like Carroll available (but what about the long periods when he's not?)
-Seems to be popular with his players which is a help in tournament football where motivation and confidence are key.
-Is popular with the media, which could help keep them off the players' backs (unlikely though).
On the other hand:
-He hasn't been especially successful as a PL manager.
-The successes he HAS had have not been in a realm which is comparable to international football with a relatively - decreasingly so - big side.
-Doesn't play the counter-attacking style of football to which England seem suited.
-No experience of international football.
-Plays shit football.
-Arrogant.
-Annoying face.
-Hate him.
As you can see, the positives columns has just as many points, but they're all ifs and maybes, and tenuous to the idea that he could be a success. The negatives are all major marks against him. I don't think it's a clear-cut case of "there's no way he should have got the job", in fact that's the problem - the only thing more depressing than Allardyce getting the England job is the fact that, of the handful of realistic candidates, he was probably the best option.
Listen to Steve Kean here.
I take it you're not a fan of Terry Venables then?
I wasn't a huge fan of Venables, no. Very few people were going into Euro 96.
Just thinking of possible new/returning call-ups to the squad in future now that Allardyce is in charge...
Shawcross
Noble
Cresswell
Carroll
Defoe
Pickford
Antonio
Cork
Dann
Baines
Ward
Simpson
Tomkins
Cattermole
Livermore
Huddlestone
Rodriguez
Albrighton
Deeney
Wilson
Gray
Wickham
Long list I know, just thinking about players who could theoretically fit his ethos. Any others? You'd assume Carroll is a near-certainty and I would expect Noble and Shawcross to at least make a few squads.
Last edited by Simon; July 22nd, 2016 at 7:07 AM.
If he calls David Beckham up to the first squad I'll get on board.
I don't think Andy Carroll is necessarily a near-certainty unless he starts the season very strongly. I think Allardyce will know what he represents in the eyes of his critics.
I posted quotes yesterday where Allardyce has criticised Carroll's professionalism I highly doubt he'll even be considered for a squad while Allardyce is in charge.
You left off the part in the same passage where he said 'But, when fit, he should be England’s regular centre-forward.’
But when is he ever fit?
I doubt he'll ever be fit enough for Allardyce overlook the flaws in his attitude that he witnessed when he was managing him.
Of course it doesn't fit the narrative (hate myself for using that word) that Allardyce has to have a big man up front.
He's got Harry Kane anyway.
Just don't let him near free kicks. Or corners.
And a team just won something with a win ratio of 14%.
What was ONCE the top job. Its not anymore. No international jobs are.
England produce horrible football no matter what.
How is he a crook by the way? Have I missed something there?
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