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Thread: Batman vs Superman: Dawn of Justice

  1. #101
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    italy
    In a bizarre set of circumstances, this movie after breaking records may now tank at the box office.

  2. #102
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    Wow. 71% drop. No major competitive releases. Many schools on spring break...

  3. #103
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    A big drop...but it'll make back it's budget going to it's third weekend.

    I know the studio was expecting more than 300M but 300-350 M is about as much as it was ever going to make. A good number considering such shit reviews.

  4. #104
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    This movie is trash. I'd rather watch C-SPAN.

  5. #105
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greed View Post
    A big drop...but it'll make back it's budget going to it's third weekend.

    I know the studio was expecting more than 300M but 300-350 M is about as much as it was ever going to make. A good number considering such shit reviews.
    Not at all, they would've expected near marvel numbers and probably near marvel reviews. The studio were giving it standing ovations and signing multiple films off their early screenings. Look at the transformer reviews and the money they have made. This box office trajectory will be a disappointing sign for the studios, they will have been hoping it had better legs. Ultimately (although there were things I liked about it), it was not made as a mass appeal film, but it has a budget and the profile of a mass appeal film. It was far too serious and somber in tone and colour palette, the characters were badly developed, the story was a mess and the film was far too focused on the visuals (which were spectacular). There was no humour at all and for a 12a it has the entire atmosphere of a 15, without having the violence and adult content of a 15 that would've appealed to an older audience. It had a big opening and will post decent box office, but not as much as they want and it is not a good sign for the franchise unless they start changing the way they make these films.

  6. #106
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    *raises hand*

    What's a 12a and 15?

  7. #107
    RKO Ozanne's Avatar
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    Age classifications in the UK.

  8. #108
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Gotcha.

  9. #109
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    The BBFC who make the age certifications are like what the MPAA are in America, only not utter shit. 12A means that anyone under 12 can see the film as long as they are accompanied by an adult. It recommends that the film usually isn't suitable for under 8s, but leaves that to the parents judgement. As a rating it was predominantly made as a reaction to Spider-Man and The Fellowship of the Ring. The BBFC is more interested in getting the suitable content in films for the right rating to encourage the right people to see the film, whereas the MPAA is more about stopping anyone from seeing gays or penises.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    It was far too serious and somber in tone and colour palette...
    I struggled to follow the action on screen a lot of the time because it was so bloody dark.

  11. #111
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I might be a mark for Batman so forgive me when I say this but this movie was awesome. I knew Affleck was going to do a great job, he did, he's #4 in my all time list of favorite Batmans (Keaton, West, Bale, Affleck). Loved the movie front to back. The only gripe I have is the way they went from killing each other to being buddies after "Martha" is brought into the battle lol. .

  12. #112
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Well, I finally saw it. Not really sure how to word my review other than that I can't stand Zack Snyder at this point and I could have easily seen half an hour trimmed without anyone batting an eye.

    The opening with Bruce's view of Man of Steel was great and one of the two highlights (as far as scenes) for me. The other being Bats saving Martha. Beyond that it was kind of incoherent and too dark. I'm not going to say I hated it, more that I was left indifferent to it. The script needed at least one more rewrite to trim it down and there were so many unnecessary scenes and then some absolutely wasted ones. All of Bruce's dreams could have been cut without losing a thing. It actually would have felt better to not have Batman dreaming about shooting everyone.

    Seeing the Waynes killed again was unnecessary as we've seen it so many times already and I thought this was the weakest version of the scene. We all know what happens there and don’t need to see it.

    I actually liked the first half of the movie more than the second, overall. The titular fight felt like Randy Orton vs. Trips at Wrestlemania 25 for me. So much promise and build up going in, but it just came off dry and sudden after the rest of the movie.

    The US Capitol blowing up with Superman in it felt like a wasted opportunity to me. So much of the movie was overloaded with fake news reports, they could have easily streamlined the whole plot there, showing the media blaming Supes rather than Lt. Dan and using that for Lex to manipulate everyone and for Bruce to go off to war on.

    Oh, then we have the wardrobe changes. This is a nitpick, but it annoyed me. So, Lex sets his timer for an hour and we see Wonder Woman somewhere in her fancy clothes. Then she's at home in her pajamas checking her email. Then she's on an airline flight in entirely different clothes. Same with Batsy in the same hour span where he's in his Iron Man cosplay to fight Supes and then rushes off to save Martha with ten minutes left but manages to change into a completely new outfit.

    Overall, middle of the road for me. I don't like Snyder but there were a lot of scenes in here that I liked—I just felt the direction was poor and the editing very poor. Considering there's some massively longer r-rated version, I imagine that there is a good movie somewhere in here, but it feels like it was put together by a donkey brain.

    Affleck was very good. Gadot seems a fine casting choice. Cavill is fine, if quite underdeveloped as Superman. Eisenberg as Lex was odd. He was too over the top for my liking but I kept thinking he'd have made a great Wally West. I'd have liked Lex to be closer to Clancy Brown—a refined businessman who doesn't tip his hand.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Not at all, they would've expected near marvel numbers and probably near marvel reviews. The studio were giving it standing ovations and signing multiple films off their early screenings. Look at the transformer reviews and the money they have made. This box office trajectory will be a disappointing sign for the studios, they will have been hoping it had better legs. Ultimately (although there were things I liked about it), it was not made as a mass appeal film, but it has a budget and the profile of a mass appeal film. It was far too serious and somber in tone and colour palette, the characters were badly developed, the story was a mess and the film was far too focused on the visuals (which were spectacular). There was no humour at all and for a 12a it has the entire atmosphere of a 15, without having the violence and adult content of a 15 that would've appealed to an older audience. It had a big opening and will post decent box office, but not as much as they want and it is not a good sign for the franchise unless they start changing the way they make these films.
    Fans hyped it when announced to compete to break all time records...but if the studio execs all thought the same then they are clueless. Like I said...350 was about it's ceiling. 400 dom. gross would have been a huge achievement. I loved the film and prefer it to most of the Avenger series movies but yes it has flaws which you pointed out...but it's making enough money to be profitable and if the execs are unhappy its due ttheiro own expectations.

  14. #114
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    why do i feel like batman begins didn't get a good initial release and just kinda wasn't a huge moneymaker.

    that has little to do with this, but i don't remember the hype being as huge going and out of it, until trailers for TDKR came up

  15. #115
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    Begins was the eighth highest grossing movie in the US for 2005. It wasn't a success on the level of the next two installments, but it still did great business. The monster hype began with The Dark Knight.

  16. #116
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    The monster hype for TDK began with...



  17. #117
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    This was really the moment that caused everyone to lose their shit:


  18. #118
    Gherkin Seanny One Ball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    Tommy Lee as 2-face and Jim Carrey as Ridler was probably the best 1-2 punch of villains ever in a Batman movie
    I agree. Probably would have been a good flick if Joel had just given a fuck.

  19. #119
    ... Beer-Belly's Avatar
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    I loved Batman Forever as a kid. I think Schumacher cared there, it's just that his vision was homoerotic, neon-colored camp. I've always wanted to see the original cut of that movie.

  20. #120
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    pretty sure schumacher has said he was a fan of the 60's tv show, so he basically skewed the burton look towards that. batman and robin is awesome if you watch it as a big budget version of the TV show.

  21. #121
    ... Beer-Belly's Avatar
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    The 60's is legitimately funny, though. The focus was on Batman and Robin being total squares.

    Schumacher said WB basically pressured him into making Batman & Robin into a glorified toy commercial.

  22. #122
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    Burton's films are camp, by the way. I love Batman and Batman Returns. Burton threw 60's Batman, German Expressionism and Hammer horror films into a blender and it worked.

  23. #123
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew View Post
    why do i feel like batman begins didn't get a good initial release and just kinda wasn't a huge moneymaker.

    that has little to do with this, but i don't remember the hype being as huge going and out of it, until trailers for TDKR came up

    Very different situation though. Batman Begins came on the back of Batman Forever absolutely destroying the Batman franchise for a decade. Superhero films in general were nowhere near the force that they are today and Batman v Superman is coming off the back of the most successful (critically and commercially) superhero trilogy there has ever been, so thats in everyone's minds. Batman v Superman would've done better figures if it was a more accessible or simply better film. The studio would've been expecting $1.5b worldwide I would imagine.

  24. #124
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    One other quick thing that stood out in BvS for me is how quickly Snyder will throw away rather major or constantly recurring characters from the comics/tv shows.

    Off the top of my head he kills off:

  25. #125
    Gherkin Seanny One Ball's Avatar
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    Huh. I think you just fixed Batman Forever with a sentence.

  26. #126
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    God, Batman Forever looks so good next to this.

  27. #127
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    Batman Begins had like a $50 million opening weekend. It wasn't a smash, but it was decent. As others had said, this was the first Batman movie in eight years and Batman and Robin had been a complete disaster. So it wasn't really realistic to expect a massive opening weekend. The studio was satisfied, the movie had legs at the box office and then did huge DVD business. And then "The Dark Knight" was the biggest opening weekend in history.

    BvS is absolutely a business success, even if it had a pretty huge second week drop. I think fan opinion is more split than the reviews (which are almost all negative). So we'll see if the franchise can keep building from here. My guess is that it can because the Justice League movie has been a long time in coming.

  28. #128
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    Batman Begins isn't worth bringing up, it's a totally different era, or at least the very beginning of the era that saw previously laughing stock characters like Iron Man or Captain America become worldwide phenomenons. Now we're all 'consumers' of 'franchises' and we refer to ourselves as such.

  29. #129
    Gherkin Seanny One Ball's Avatar
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    Anyone remember the Captain America film from the 80's or very early 90's? Shoestring budget and they remained faithful. The lead actor was never seen again.

  30. #130
    Main Eventer chatty's Avatar
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    Batman Begins was the ninth highest grossing film of 2005, it was hardly a flop. You can't compare opening weekends directly from then to now either as opening weekends start on a Tuesday now whereas it started on a Friday then. Doubling the amount of days makes a fair difference obviously so its a pretty unfair comparison.

  31. #131
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    The Justice League movies are clearly going to stink but like BvS are a lock to be at least somewhat successful financially

  32. #132
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    I personally hope they make The Flash rape super villains in Justice League. Batman slaughters people and Superman is a gloomy bore, so they might as well give Flash some of that Snyder edge as well. Plus, who can do the old in-out quicker than The Flash.

  33. #133
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fro View Post
    The Justice League movies are clearly going to stink but like BvS are a lock to be at least somewhat successful financially
    This was always going to make money due to the intrigue. The massive drop off after week one is what WB/DC needs to worry about. It lost out to some Melissa McCarthy movie I've never heard of this weekend.

    I saw it Friday and have liked the movie less and less with each day that passes. I hate saying that and it's sad, but that's the type of thing that can absolutely kill hype in these series. I had the exact opposite reaction to Batman Begins, where I've liked it more and more every day for a decade.

  34. #134
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    I personally hope they make The Flash rape super villains in Justice League. Batman slaughters people and Superman is a gloomy bore, so they might as well give Flash some of that Snyder edge as well. Plus, who can do the old in-out quicker than The Flash.
    I say go all out and say "fuck it" and do multiple universes. This is the awful universe that goes on to battle and be jobbed out to Bale, a resurrected Christopher Reeve (Brandon Routh could be acceptable if resurrection proves unfeasible) and, for good measure, Ryan Reynolds as Green Lantern. GL makes a giant green set of balls with his ring and tea bags Cavill with them.

  35. #135
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    Man, I've been saying for a while that WB/DC should have multiple directors do different takes on the characters. They shouldn't be beholden to one definitive interpretation. That would truly differentiate them from what Marvel does.

  36. #136
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    And Zack Snyder is definitely not the guy to entrust it all to.

  37. #137
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    Anyone that loves Ayn Rand as much as Snyder shouldn't be directing Superman and Batman movies. That's where all that "You don't need to save all these mother fuckers, Clark." talk from the Kents comes from.

  38. #138
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    He's so unsuited to direct Superman. The character would do better under a director who isn't a little emo bitch.

  39. #139
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    I would agree with Martha Kent if Sups didn't cause a borderline holocaust. Man of Steel was such a massive misstep. Why they choose to ignore Nolan and go with the guy who to his credit got 80% of Watchmen right then missed the entire point of the ending thus the story. Superman should make you believe in things and to some degree Batman should make you feel good too. I just have no idea why you don't call Bale. Having Bale there makes more sense than a Batman who has been around for 20 years and Clark is the only investigating him, ever. That is mind boggling to me. You want Hardy in Suicide Squad, Bane was Suicide Squad, let me him be Flagg then not get him. 2+2=7 for WB/DCU.

  40. #140
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    Snyder's justification for Batman murdering people in the movie was based on Batman shooting a Mutant gang member "in the head" in The Dark Knight Returns. Of course, that's not actually the case.

    http://spinoff.comicbookresources.co...night-returns/

    He definitely shot the thug, but where is anyone's guess.
    Last edited by Beer-Belly; April 10th, 2016 at 10:18 PM.

  41. #141
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure Snyder has killed at least a few people over his life.

  42. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    I'm pretty sure Snyder has killed at least a few people over his life.
    I'd pay to Batman vs. Superman as directed by Patrick Bateman.

  43. #143
    Gherkin Seanny One Ball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    And Zack Snyder is definitely not the guy to entrust it all to.
    Friedkin.

  44. #144
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    William Friedkin hates superhero movies.

  45. #145
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    I know he's the go to for everything, but I'd love for them to get Del Toro for whenever they do Brainiac or crazy alien shit. Well, when they do more crazy alien shit.

    Snyder litters his movies with unnecessary scenes. Here, he had a massive chase where Batman failed to steal Kryptonite only to have him pull off the heist entirely off camera five minutes later. I'd even argue that Man of Steel could have been better without the Krypton open. Have Clark find out where he's from his journeys throughout the movie. Zod telling him about Krypton in a mid to late movie flashback could have streamlined it. We didn't need SPACE DAD again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    William Friedkin hates superhero movies.
    So does Zack Snyder.

  46. #146
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    No one show Zack Snyder this:



    Oh, wait...

    Last edited by Beer-Belly; April 10th, 2016 at 11:00 PM.

  47. #147
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Yep.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seanny One Ball View Post
    Anyone remember the Captain America film from the 80's or very early 90's? Shoestring budget and they remained faithful. The lead actor was never seen again.
    If you're talking about Reb Brown's Captain America, he has a catalog of terrible films, including infamous ones like Yor and Space Mutiny...

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beer-Belly View Post
    No one show Zack Snyder this:



    Oh, wait...

    "We had a fun little idea for a scene"

  50. #150
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    Fixed in post...


  51. #151
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    That's more like it.

    I'm still going to watch the three hour R-rated cut of BvS when it comes out. I just want a more coherent movie.

  52. #152
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    Snyder, man
    Snyder, man
    Makes it grimdark
    As he can
    Jimmy's here
    Now he's dead
    Superman kills
    Now he's dead
    Look out!
    Here comes that Snyder, man!

  53. #153
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    Watching it now.

    It's not as horrific as I thought but still pretty bad with some incredible leaps in logic.

    "You said martha? Oh ok, we're best friends now"
    "It's been alive for 3 minutes but we are certain it's unkillable..."

    That bit where Wonder Woman shows up is massively WTF... it gets really shit and weird from there.

  54. #154
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I would bet money that a lot of the stuff they cut out would have made the movie flow better especially toward the end where everything in the last 30-40 minutes came across as extremely rushed. I really liked it but I thought everyone suddenly fighting on the same side was too rushed.

  55. #155
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    So I never watched the original version and only just watched the Ultimate Edition.

    Long movie, but hey I had the time.

    It wasn't as awful as I was expecting it to be. The biggest problem I have is that



    As I said I never saw the original so don't know what the additional parts were and if they helped make things slightly better. If you've got 3 hours to spare, there are worse options out there.

  56. #156
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Diablo View Post
    So I never watched the original version and only just watched the Ultimate Edition.

    Long movie, but hey I had the time.

    It wasn't as awful as I was expecting it to be. The biggest problem I have is that



    As I said I never saw the original so don't know what the additional parts were and if they helped make things slightly better. If you've got 3 hours to spare, there are worse options out there.
    Last edited by Morrison; July 3rd, 2016 at 9:31 PM.

  57. #157
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    First time watching this, that first 90 minutes or so were tough to get through. People have various complaints about this film the biggest problem is that it's just plain dull. It feels laborious. Some of the violence also makes it feel more unpleasant in terms of tone which I realize is much a personal preference, but still the movie feels nasty at times when it does things like point a flamethrower at an old woman. It serves no purpose in the story - it's ignored by the story, actually. Batman brands people - "it's a death sentence!"

  58. #158
    you either die a hero... Morrison's Avatar
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    i assumr youre talking about pointing a flamethrower at Martha Kent. it's blatantly acknowledged by the story. lex calls her a witch and says the punishment for being a witch is death by fire. it's brutal, and a preference of tone, but it's not just some random aspect for the sake of being violent.

  59. #159
    Donde esta la biblioteca Pablo Diablo's Avatar
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    Morrison


  60. #160
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Finally watched this. There were some things that were enjoyable but overall it was very bad. I see most of this thread agrees so I won't go too deep but my biggest gripe is that the dialogue was simply horrendous. Jeremy Irons seemed off as Alfred to me. Maybe it's because Michael Caine was so perfect but he just didn't seem right for the part IMO. It wasn't all Irons' fault, part of it was just the way he was written and dressed made him seem very un-butler-like. Jesse Eisenberg wasn't good either. And the lead in to the Justice League felt forced and pretty dumb.

    You guys already covered this but Batman flipping the switch from "I must kill you" to "you're my partner in saving the world" all because they have moms with the same first name was incredibly stupid.

    The action sequence that turned out to be a dream was infuriating. And then he woke up from the dream but was still in a dream. I almost stopped watching at that point.

    All in all this movie exemplifies why I think comic book movies are killing Hollywood and should be boycotted.
    Last edited by Fro; December 8th, 2016 at 4:38 PM.

  61. #161
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    Jesse Eisenberg was the best part of this for me. Otherwise, it had little enjoyable moments, but everything is so laborious and stretched out. Scenes feel like they have lots of logic and plot holes, and the film just doesn't flow along.

  62. #162
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    My buddy hit me with something the other day about this movie.....And I didn't notice this but maybe someone else did but there's a part where Eisenberg says "My dad named the company after himself". To my knowledge, Lex's dad is Lionel, not Lex. So my friend thinks that Eisenberg is Lex Luthor Jr. but again, he might have heard the line wrong or took it the wrong way, I don't know. Thoughts?

    Honestly, I wasn't a fan of this guy 100% as Luthor. Might be that most Lex Luthor's don't look 15 years old, even with his bald head. Had he been a different character but the same approach with the funky voice and mannerisms, sure. But as Luthor, it just didn't fit for me. Good acting out of him for sure but as LEX, it didn't feel like Lex Luthor. Felt more like he was trying to be The Riddler.

  63. #163
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    He named the company after his son, Lex. Write cheques for Lex.

  64. #164
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
    He named the company after his son, Lex. Write cheques for Lex.
    Ah ok thanks! He wasn't sure if he heard it right. We just had been talking about this movie the other day about how he and I are so used to seeing an older Lex Luthor whether it's movies, Smallville, comics, and then Eisenberg looks like he's 15.

  65. #165
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Eisenberg would have made a better Joker. I liked his take here, but it didn't fit in with the rest of the movie for me.

    Really, this movie with filled with performances that were better than or didn't fit the rest of the film. Affleck was the bomb and Cavill could be great given the right script and direction.

  66. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Rogerer View Post
    Jesse Eisenberg was the best part of this for me.
    Stop drinking.

  67. #167
    Legend Mik's Avatar
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    So unbelievably reviews for Wonder Woman are actually good. Maybe DC is finally getting their stuff together.

  68. #168
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    Can't wait to see Wonder Woman, but I knew I would be seeing it whether the reviews were great or terrible. I'm happy to hear they're good so far.

    I work with a guy who is convinced it's only getting good reviews "because Hollywood needs a female superhero so no matter how bad the movie is, it's going to get good reviews and do well even if they have to fudge the numbers."

  69. #169
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    I'm cautiously optimistic, but being the best of the DC movies so far isn't high praise. Thor did the fish-out-of-water gimmick very well and a war setting has been done in Captain America. But it sounds more fun and less bleak than Man of Steel or Dawn of Justice, so hopefully it will seem like a breath of fresh air.

  70. #170
    Window Licker MikeHunt's Avatar
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    yeah its looking pretty good.

    give me hope for aquaman.
    TAPS AFF!

  71. #171
    FBI Warning VHS's Avatar
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  72. #172
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAle View Post
    Can't wait to see Wonder Woman, but I knew I would be seeing it whether the reviews were great or terrible. I'm happy to hear they're good so far.

    I work with a guy who is convinced it's only getting good reviews "because Hollywood needs a female superhero so no matter how bad the movie is, it's going to get good reviews and do well even if they have to fudge the numbers."
    It does look like a good movie but I can see where he's coming from because I've read stuff for quite awhile, and not just from fans or critics but directors, writers, actors, etc. that have said, mostly in response to the "Why isn't there a Black Widow solo movie yet" or "When is Wonder Woman getting her own movie/t.v. show!?!" comments and what your co-worker is saying isn't exactly far off in terms of Hollywood wanting to get a female super hero like a Wonder Woman out there to "even up" the male dominated super hero world. I don't know if I'd go as far to say that it's only getting good reviews for the most part for that reason as it does look like a good movie, but I can respect the opinion because we've heard it for years just not in those exact words haha.

  73. #173
    Main Eventer BigAl's Avatar
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    I think his opinion goes a bit further. The way you say it does kind of make sense, I can see where those ideas come
    from. Personally though, I'd like to see a Black Widow solo movie because she's an interesting character, not just because she's a woman.

    My co-worker, on the other hand, is firmly of a belief that female characters don't belong in comics or video games. He thinks Wonder Woman is "pandering to the minority of comic fans" and the movie shouldn't have been made. Needless to say, he's an angry 30 year old virgin.

  74. #174
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    We just hear it all the time...We need a strong female character for this kind of show, this kind of movie. Not just a female but a STRONG female. Like, you have the scream queens from the old days like Jamie Lee Curtis, I remember hearing how a lot of women were like "Why are we always portrayed as these helpless victims?" Then you get the Night of the Living Dead remake and Barbara goes from a quiet mousey type to what we see in recent times with Mila Jovovich in Resident Evil. But I would even say before NOTLD remake, Alice from Nightmare on Elm St 4/5 really started a slow burn change. Pam Grier before that even? Fuck now I'm stuck in a neverending situation lol. But you get my point.

    Nowadays there's no shortage of female badasses. Wonder Woman....I feel like it's a long-time coming and on one hand being a mark for the comics, I love it regardless of the intention but there's definitely some truth in wanting little girls up to old women having their own shit that is put out there in the front and not just background characters like a Black Widow or a Storm or even Rogue and Jean Grey. DC though really has jack shit in terms of known female characters that aren't attached to bigger male characters. Batgirl could do very well as a standalone in my opinion but you know even the most die hard Batgril fan would would go "Where's Batman?" lol.

  75. #175
    1-800-Call-My-Bluff Fro's Avatar
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    Is batgirl batman's daughter?

  76. #176
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    No, she's Commissioner Gordon's daughter, Barbara.

  77. #177
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    Batwoman is his cousin

  78. #178
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    You could say Gordon is Barbara's father and Batman is Batgirl's father...

  79. #179
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    Except in Bruce Timm's world where Batman is cool with banging Batgirl for some fucked up reason. I love Batman: The Animated Series, but the Timm's Bruce and Barbara relationship is some Woody Allen shit.

  80. #180
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    DC has always been a bit wonky with Batgirl. She was close to being a contemporary of Robin's that they had a relationship when Robin was college age, but, because she had already been through college and a librarian on her debut, she was old enough that she could run as a congresswoman (although they created a DCU rule where even a 25 year old could be a congresswoman). Bruce had been reliably placed in that eternal 29-39 year old age range... so she was somewhere between a 'big sis' type to Robin when their relationship cooled and a little sis-type for Bruce. The "Killing Joke" animated movie relationship between Batgirl and Batman was all kinds of out-of-left-field.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigAle View Post
    I work with a guy who is convinced it's only getting good reviews "because Hollywood needs a female superhero so no matter how bad the movie is, it's going to get good reviews and do well even if they have to fudge the numbers."
    That must be why Catwoman and Elektra did so well with critics...

  82. #182
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    Just got back from Wonder Woman. Liked it a lot. Best of the DC Universe live action movies and I say that as one of the people that liked Man of Steel. Liked that this movie had more consequences than you normally see.

    Had a few issues. While I liked it the movie wasn't perfect, but most good movies have stuff you can pick at.


    Last edited by Defrost; June 1st, 2017 at 11:16 PM.

  83. #183
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Might want to make it clear you're talking about Wonder Woman there (or someone who's a bit of an idiot will click that spoiler tag and read the first line and have WW spoiled thinking it might be about about BvS...)

  84. #184
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    Ok then. We were talking about Wonder Woman here, but I edited to make it clearer.

  85. #185
    an affront to god mth's Avatar
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    Like I said, I'm a bit of an idiot. But it is the BvS thread and I thought maybe you were just late to the party... (I realize this one's on me)

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