Yes the triple threat and HIAC. No the rest.
Yes the triple threat and HIAC. No the rest.
Women's triple threat was a great match. The others were not.Originally Posted by PurePlayer
YES to Y2J/AJ.
NO to everything else from Mania.
I thought it was so close to being great but a there was just a touch too much sloppiness in there. Still very good though.
I think the ladder match was a lot better. The triple threat was good but not great. Great is Bailey vs Sasha from takeover Brooklyn.
Yes to the IC ladder match and the women's triple threat.
Yes to Triple Threat, no to everything else.
You said yes to the HIAC match; one big bump in an otherwise slow, plodding and fairly boring match.
Yes I did say yes to it. There were a few nice spots to it including the table spot and coast to coast. I also liked the submission style wrestling in the middle. And the big bump was the biggest bump in the last 16 years.
You act like I said no to the women's triple threat but I don't think it was match of the night. I think the ladder match was by a good amount. The women's match had a few sloppy moments and I think the wrong person won.
Yes to the Ladder Match and the Women's triple threat from Mania. All well done, everything else from Mania gets a no from me.
as far as Takeover is concerned. I will yes Asuka/Bayley and Balor/Joe. I don't think they will be my match of the year by any means, but think they deserve to be mentioned.
Yes to Flair/Banks/Lynch.
There was quite a few bumps in the HIAC. I thought they started sloppy and botched a fair few moves early on - both triangle chokes were contrived, the counter to Sharpshooter was really botched as he had to have Taker open his legs for him to stop and put his through, the DDT was missed, the coast to coast was overshot and then the bin went the wrong way - latter one was still impressive and they should have just sold it as it hitting him int he balls as that would have hurt like fuck anyway.
But then once they got going it picked up, cool spear through the cell, counter into sleeper then back body drop through the table, last ride, tool box to the head, elbow spot, tombstone.
What a disappointing Mania, at least from a match quality stand point. I did really enjoy the ladder match. I felt like the moves made sense at least, which is something that a lot of recent ones have been lacking. Zayn looked like a star and everyone got some good stuff in. The end was one of the most baffling Mania moments ever but I did still enjoy it. So yes to that.
Also a yes to the triple threat. It's a shame there was a big botch within the first couple of minutes and god damn Becky needs to change her kickpad cover things or whatever you call them. So it was a bit sloppy in parts but I can't fault the story they told and the work they put in.
No to everything else which is so disappointing to say.
Last edited by Andy; April 5th, 2016 at 6:20 PM.
It was the best actual wrestling match on the show. Not to take anything away from the women, but they didn't have allot of competition last night.
Yes to Ladder match, Women's match and Y2AJ.
YES to ladder match and triple threat.
YES to IC Title, Women's Title, and Taker/Shane.
NO to everything else from Mania.
So Mania. Yes to the women's triple threat, no to everything else. Especially the HIAC, didn't like it at all. Not believable, too long, and ended with a much to dangerous spot. I don't know, maybe I'm just grumpy because I hated how the show was put together... Also, if the legends are going to make appearances, please have them do something more constructive than just doing their signature spots and putting the current active wrestlers down.
lesner and ambrose could have been so much more
he took as many suplexs as reigns but only 1 f-5
gotta make roman look strong
ill yes swagsuke and zayn
ill no everything from mania
i thought the event sucked
close to nominating the womens match but i was just let down the entire event
Last edited by mr sabu; April 4th, 2016 at 8:04 PM.
What the hell. AJ vs. Jericho vs. Owens vs.
Last edited by Sasori; April 5th, 2016 at 12:09 AM.
I'll yes the four way from Raw as well. Damn good match.
- Nakumara/Zayn – NXT Takeover: Dallas - *****
- Ambrose/Owens - Royal Rumble - ****1/2
- Ambrose/Lesnar/Reigns – Fast Lane - **** 1/4
- Ambrose/HHH – Roadblock - ****
- Y2AJ/New Day - Raw 03/07 - ***3/4
- Charlotte/Lynch/Banks – WrestleMania 32 - *** 3/4
- Styles/Jericho/Cesaro/Owens – Raw 04/04 - ***3/4
- Joe/Balor – NXT Takeover: Dallas - *** 1/2
- IC Title Ladder Match – WrestleMania 32 - *** 1/2
- Zayn/Joe - NXT 03/09 - *** 1/4
- Enzo & Cass/Revival – Roadblock - *** 1/4
- HHH/Ziggler – Raw 03/14 - ***
- Styles/Jericho – WrestleMania 32 - ***
- Charlotte/Natayla – Roadblock - ***
- Neville/Balor - NXT 03/02 - ***
Last edited by Honey_Badger; April 5th, 2016 at 11:58 AM.
^^^^^ MATCHES IN BOLD ARE NEW -- YES THOSE 5 ^^^^^
I am liking this list. I would just switch 14 and 15 and shuffle around 6-9 in a different order but looks good.
I am going to yes the fatal fourway from raw.
Yes to last night's fatal four way. Had some nice moments and good pacing for the crowd
I think you mean !!!ELBOW SPOT!!!
My grandma has elbow spots.
After a re-watch, I have to change my vote for the Wrestlemania ladder match to a yes. It's a lot of fun, with some cool spots.
Yes to Shinsuke Nakamura/Sami Zayn
Gonna nominate Cesaro/Owens and Zayn/Styles from Raw. The latter being an incredible match between two with some similarities that felt important.
I'll Yes Zayn/AJ.
I will yes both of these as well.
Yes to the 4-way from last week as well as AJ/SZ and Owens/Cesaro. Fine matches.
Nom and a yes to Charlotte vs. Nattie from last night.
Going through RAW now. Definite YES to Cesaro/Owens. What a great match, beautiful pacing a psychology, Owens playing the perfect heel and Cesaro the perfect babyface. Excellent.
No to this, they just had a better match at Roadblock. This one was fine, but not really enough to make my list
I really need to watch the Raw matches again because honestly I didn't think any of them were great. Good, but not great.
AJ/Zayn probably sits in my top six right now for sure
Meltzer rated Nakumara/Zayn from Dallas a 4.5 out of 5. Interesting.
In comparison, he gave the Royal Rumble 3-way from 2015 a 4.75 out of 5.
His ratings for Mania:
Ladder: 4.25
Jericho/Styles: 3.25
6-man Tag: 2.5
Ambrose/Lesnar: 3.25
Women: 4
HIAC: 2.5
Reigns/HHH: 3.25
Same here. I thought AJ/Zayn was a bit better than Owens/Cesaro, but it didn't blow me away. Still a really good match.
I tend to agree with Meltzer with most of his ratings. I agree with the Nakamura/Zayn rating, although I think he's overrated the two Mania main events. Did he rate the Y2AJ vs New Day tag?
No, I don't believe so. So far this year, he has rated Nakumara/Zayn a 4.5, Reigns/Ambrose/Lesnar a 4.5, WM 32 ladder match a 4.25, HHH/Ambrose a 4.25, Ambrose/Owens (Rumble) a 4.25, WM 32 Women Match a 4, NXT Dallas Tag Title Match a 4, Styles/Jericho from Fastlane a 4 and finally, the Rumble itself a 4.
No ratings from Raw or SD!. All remaining PPV matches came in at a 3.75 or below.
Does he have a set rule for when he reviews TV matches? Like if they're over **** or something? To me that tag is right up there with the others at ****1/2 or so.
The top of my list is something like this at the moment:
Nakamura/Zayn
.
.
Reigns/Ambrose/Lesnar
Y2AJ/New Day
.
Ambrose/Owens
Jesus you fuckers hanging on that massive cunts opinion again, fuck off.
What did he rate Balor vs Joe matches? London and Dallas?
Sorry for agreeing with someone Peter. How do you rate the matches being discussed?
Off the top of my head, I believe he gave London a 4 and Dallas a 3.5. I know for a fact he rated London higher then Dallas. Finn hasn't received a rating higher then a 4 from him since arriving in WWE.
****1/4 for both matches with Owens and one with Neville. You're right on London/Dallas.
Has everybody regained their senses and retroactively yesed AJ/Y2J from Wrestlemania yet?
Nope. I thought it was a perfectly fine match but I didn't think it was that good and I disagreed with the result. Plus it was the fourth in the series and it left me with no desire to watch it again.
Haven't rewatched mania yet. But I'm hoping to get some time this weekend.
Ah, yes. I forgot about the Neville match. My favorite Finn match since arriving in WWE.
no, it was not that good
2nd best match of the night behind the ladder match.
Ladder match was the second best behind the women.
The women's match was good but don't see it being great by any means.
Best match on the entire card.
I second Artie's opinion. I honestly thought the Women had the best match. I liked Styles/Jericho a lot, though.
Womens 3-way was fine, couldn't help to feel all three of them were a little over-excited though, which lead to some botchy spots. Maybe one day I will rewatch Styles/Jericho.
I will honestly admit at this point I remember nothing of AJ/Jericho other than the finish. Not a good sign in my book.
Not really. There are a ton of matches that I end up loving after watching it the second go around.
That's not how I operate, I don't rewatch stuff. I go on a first impression basis and factor in memorability in my criteria.
The only reason to rewatch mania is the sheer volume. I can't pay super close attention to anything for seven hours. I need to go back and watch those matches again while skipping past all the bullshit.
AJ/ADR and Y2J/SZ were really good matches..
Damn, missed Smackdown last night
Completely agree here. They're right on the cusp of being matches worth yessing. If nothing else, it made for a great episode of Smackdown that everyone should watch for the wrestling. Up and down.AJ/ADR and Y2J/SZ were really good matches..
Yes to Owens vs Zayn and Reigns vs Styles from payback.
Yes to both matches
I yes the main event but will hold judgement on KO vs Zayn until I watch it again, Enzo's injury kind of took me out of the match.
Absolutely yes to both. Zayn and KO have incredible chemistry. Their work together is magic.
Main event gets a yes too. I feel like these two worked very well together and it made for a compelling watch. The extra restarts kinda kept AJ strong as well looking like a legit contender.
YES to both of these, and also Miz/Cesaro as well.
Yes to Owens/Zayn and Styles/Reigns.
I also want to yes Ryback vs Kalisto. That was a hectic 8 minute match. I think the wrong guy won though.
Yes to Owens/Zayn
After sleeping on it, I'll say Yes to AJ vs. Roman. Even with the overbooking, the action in the ring was top notch.
I may be in the minority here, but Styles versus Reigns from Payback currently ranks as my #3 match behind Nakumara/Zayn and Ambrose/Owens - Rumble. I loved the match. The restarts didn't;t bother me one bit and added to the drama of the match with Styles chasing, coming so close, but falling short. The involvement of outside interference was played perfectly; not too much but just enough. They told a great story. Reigns was so confident, borderline cocky at beginning of match, but switched gears once he realized Styles is the real deal. Styles played the face role perfectly and Reigns is so great as a tweener.
****1/2 for me.
Owens/Zayn gets a ****1/4 and a YES as well. Match ranks #5 on the year.
Loved both matches.
YES to Owens/Zayn
YES to Styles/Reigns
NO to Miz/Cesaro
After going back and watching some matches and seeing others, I would say matches that most likely make my end of year lists are:
Nakumara/Zayn – NXT Takeover: Dallas - *****
Ambrose/Owens - Royal Rumble - ****1/2Reigns/Styles - Payback - ****1/2
Ambrose/Lesnar/Reigns – Fast Lane - **** 1/4
Zayn/Owens - Payback - ****1/4
Ambrose/HHH – Roadblock - ****
Y2AJ/New Day - Raw 03/07 - ***3/4
Charlotte/Lynch/Banks – WrestleMania 32 - *** 3/4
Styles/Jericho/Cesaro/Owens – Raw 04/04 - ***3/4
Just caught up with Payback, probably the best show of the year so far.
YES to Ryback/Kalisto. That was unexpectedly great, would be a shame if it's Ryback's last match. Loved the quick pace, big/little man dynamic and the home stretch. Good on Ryback for saving Kalisto from paralysing himself too.
YES to Owens/Zayn. As you'd expect, just great. Hopefully the first of many.
YES to Cesaro/Miz. I really did enjoy this one a lot and it was massively enhanced by the Owens commentary and the creative ending.
YES to Reigns/Styles. I wasn't a massive fan of having two restarts, took me out of it a little and made it feel like a Raw match. Some of the stuff Styles did was mad and Roman kept up with him.
From Payback, yes to Zayn/Owens and Reigns/Styles. Didn't feel like any of the other matches quite made the cut.
Didn't think anyone else would agree with me about all the YES's.
Yes to Ryback/Kalisto, Owens/Zayn, Cesaro/Miz, and Reigns/Styles. All four of them were great matches. The card as a whole was great outside of the unfortunately abrupt end to the Tag match. Kinda fighting myself over which I liked better between Reigns/Styls and Owens/Zayn, but they were both high standouts. Miz/Cesaro continues to have freaky good chemistry, and Ryback/Kalisto had what I thought should have been their match at WrestleMania.
YES to zayn/owens, miz/cesaro and reigns/styles.
Updated after Rancid_Planet
January
Dean Ambrose vs. Kevin Owens, Royal Rumble (1/24) - (23 Yes, 0 No)
Charlotte vs. Becky Lynch, Royal Rumble (1/24) - (5 Yes, 3 No)
Royal Rumble Match, Royal Rumble (1/24) - (6 Yes, 7 No)
AJ Styles vs. Chris Jericho, Raw (1/25) - (1 Yes, 4 No)
Dean Ambrose & Roman Reigns vs. Sheamus & Rusev, Raw (1/25) - (1 Yes, 1 No)
Neville vs. Kalisto, Smackdown (1/28) - (4 Yes, 3 No)
February
Finn Balor vs. Apollo Crews, NXT (2/3) - (4 Yes, 2 No)
Bayley vs. Carmella, NXT (2/10) - (2 Yes, 4 No)
AJ Styles vs. Chris Jericho, Smackdown (2/11) - (6 Yes, 0 No)
Kevin Owens vs. Dolph Ziggler, Fast Lane (2/21) - (1 Yes, 2 No)
AJ Styles vs. Chris Jericho, Fast Lane (2/21) - (1 Yes, 2 No)
Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns vs. Dean Ambrose, Fast Lane (2/21) - (9 Yes, 0 No)
March
Finn Balor vs. Neville, NXT (3/2) - (10 Yes, 1 No)
Dean Ambrose vs. Kevin Owens, Smackdown (3/3) - (1 Yes, 0 No)
The New Day vs. Y2AJ, RAW (3/7) - (11 Yes, 0 No)
Sami Zayn vs. Samoa Joe, NXT (3/9) - (12 Yes, 0 No)
The Revival vs. Enzo Amore & Big Cass, Roadblock (3/12) - (6 Yes, 0 No)
Charlotte vs. Natalya, Roadblock (3/12) - (4 Yes, 1 No)
Triple H vs. Dean Ambrose, Roadblock (3/12) -(13 Yes, 0 No)
Triple H vs. Dolph Ziggler, RAW (3/14) - (5 Yes, 0 No)
Kevin Owens vs. AJ Styles, RAW (3/21) - (6 Yes, 0 No)
April
The Revival vs. American Alpha, NXT Takeover: Dallas (4/1) - (16 Yes, 4 No)
Sami Zayn vs. Shinsuke Nakamura, NXT Takeover: Dallas (4/1) - (23 Yes, 0 No)
Bayley vs. Asuka, NXT Takeover: Dallas (4/1) - (15 Yes, 4 No)
Finn Balor vs. Samoa Joe, NXT Takeover: Dallas (4/1) - (13 Yes, 4 No)
Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn vs. Dolph Ziggler vs. The Miz vs. Stardust vs. Zack Ryder vs. Sin Cara, WRESTLEMANIA 32 (4/3) - (10 Yes, 6 No)
Chris Jericho vs. AJ Styles, WRESTLEMANIA 32 (4/3) - (3 Yes, 8 No)
Charlotte vs. Becky Lynch vs. Sasha Banks, WRESTLEMANIA 32 (4/3) - (15 Yes, 1 No)
The Undertaker vs. Shane McMahon, WRESTLEMANIA 32 (4/3) - (4 Yes, 8 No)
AJ Styles vs. Chris Jericho vs. Kevin Owens vs. Cesaro, RAW (4/4) - (6 Yes, 0 No)
Kevin Owens vs. Cesaro, RAW (4/11) - (4 Yes, 0 No)
Charlotte vs. Natalya, RAW (4/11) - (1 Yes, 1 No)
AJ Styles vs. Sami Zayn, RAW (4/11) - (4 Yes, 0 No)
May
Kalisto vs. Ryback, Payback (5/1) - (3 Yes, 0 No)
Kevin Owens vs. Sami Zayn, Payback (5/1) - (12 Yes, 0 No)
The Miz vs. Cesaro, Payback (5/1) - (4 Yes, 1 No)
Roman Reigns vs. AJ Styles, Payback (5/1) - (13 Yes, 0 No)
Bayley vs. Nia Jax, NXT (5/18) - (2 Yes, 0 No)
Last edited by Psycho666Soldier; May 20th, 2016 at 2:09 AM.
Stone Cold rated the Reigns/Styles match as one of the best he has seen in years, praised Reigns work and gave it 5 stars. I believe this took place on a recent podcast.
Not disagreeing with Austin, but that reminded me of his podcast the other day. He said that the in-ring product was way better in the Attitude era than it is now. Now I agree with him on his points that everyone was over and therefore the fans were more emotinally invested etc, but I just can't get on board with that at all. Watching back the Attitude era now is hard work. Even at the time, the PPVs were at times hard work. It was Raw that was must-see TV.
wrestling matches are for the most part spotfests nowadays, I feel like most matches are the same
just because wrestlers are whipping out crazy moves and kicking out of everything doesn't mean a match is at least 3 stars
back then, wrestlers used to attempt to tell a story in the ring. now, the only story being told is: this guy is kicking out of everything, let me now whip out a jumping summer sault stunner
uh oh, Dolph Ziggler is tuning up the band 2 minutes into the match, he hits Sweet Chin Music!, kick out on 1
and this commentary team is doing NO favors
Last edited by Spedizzo; May 5th, 2016 at 11:49 AM.
You have stated you don't watch the product that often so you really have no basis to make this claim.
I think in the second half of the Attitude Era the match quality was always excellent. Even before that, the main events usually delivered which is obviously important and hasn't always been the case in recent years.
The wrestlemania's during the attitude era besides 17 sucked in terms of match quality for the most part. If you compare wrestling overall now to the attitude era I think it's pretty accurate to say the wrestling now is better. Hell, look at the match of the year lists in 2015 and 2016.
Andy has a point, from Backlash 2000 and on every main event and PPV, for the most part, hit the nail on the head and delivered. He did say the second half, not entire era.
Disagree. Yes the ppvs and main events delivered in terms of entertainment and excitement but the rest of the cards outside the top two matches were just ok. There were a lot of 3-7 minute matches. I would say Fully Loaded 2000 and Unforgiven 2000 were good shows in terms of match quality.
Really? I remember some pretty bad, even ridiculous matches from the latter part of the Attitude Era. They were doing a lot of stuff that they had never done before, but some of it was just pretty bad. I mean, the Kennel from Hell match was in there...some ridiculous women's gimmick matches...not to mention shit like this:
When people think of how great the Attitude Era was, I think they get some selective amnesia. Everything was great or absolute shit. You just didn't know what was going to happen. For some reason, people only remember the great parts.
The main event scene always delivered, as did the upper card. Yes, a lot of the undercard was usually filler/entertainment trash, but it was over and fun to watch. At least when an Attitude Era PPV came on, you were waiting all month/weeks for the main event and it was almost like a party atmosphere for the PPV - kids and adults alike.
Last edited by Spedizzo; May 5th, 2016 at 4:18 PM. Reason: I will save the rest for the rambling thread
Fuck it. I'm nominating Bayley vs. Nia Jax from last night's NXT.
THIS was the match Nia has been needing to have, and really felt like her coming out party. She portrayed a monster perfectly and really seems to have have rounded out her moveset, and learned how to improvise by accentuating her power. Some of her offense looked crushing, and actually kept me drawn to the screen. And that's not even talking about Bayley, who worked and sold her ass off here. I feel like there's an argument for this being her best performance. Not her best match, but more like she's found where her ring style should naturally evolve, and she's growing into it swimmingly. Probably wouldn't be very high on my list, but a standout for great psychology and story-telling, as well as being a moment of growth for both wrestlers.
I just watched the youtube highlights and was impressed. Nia seems really be getting her stuff together.
She really is. Here's hoping this wasn't just a fluke performance with one of the best workers on the roster, but considering the gap in quality between this and the match at London, I think there is some legitimate improvement happening.
The finish was probably my favorite of the year so far. It made Nia look like an absolute uncaring wrecking ball, giving her heat while protecting Bayley with the injury angle and somehow making Bayley more sympathetic.
That spot where she turns the guillotine choke into a suplex was Cesaro-like impressive.
I think Nia Jax is doing bloody well for somebody who didn't wrestle prior to WWE and has only been working live matches for almost exactly a year. It's evident on Breaking Ground, she's working hard at this. Her strength is hugely impressive and is a real asset in a less-power focussed division. My only real grumble with Jax is the continuously checking of her hands, for blood or something, as a way of selling, usually after fighting off an attack. In this match she checked her face, which is semi-understandable, but then went on to check her neck, then her chest, then later her forehead, and the face again. I don't know why it annoys me, it's strange.
Glad to see people finally getting on board the Jax train. This woman has star potential written all over her. The main roster needs a female monster heel and Nia is it. Last night's match was a vastly improved version of what they did at TakeOver London. Nia is learning and learning quick. And of course Bayley is good enough to make anyone who can give a solid effort look good.
An excellent match and definite yes.
Miz/Cesaro/Owens/Zayn from Extreme Rules gets a yes.
So does Roman/AJ.
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