Screwy Finishes

[chatty]

So we got two last night in Lesnar/Taker and Rollins/Cena. This seems to be all that WWE has thesedays. Going back the last few years its been screwy finish galore:

Battleground - Lesnar v Rollins - Taker attacks Brock
MITB - Rollins v Ambrose - clean finish
Elimination Chamber - Rollins v Ambrose - DQ finsh
Payback - Rollins v Reigns v Ambrose v Orton - Kane interferes
Extreme Rules - Rollins v Orton - No RKO rule and Kane interferance
WrestleMania - Lesnar v Reigns - Rollins cash in
Fastlane - Bryan v Reigns - clean finish
Royal Rumble - 30 Man RR
TLC - Bray v Ambrose - Ambrose blows himself up with a monitor
Survivor Series - Team Cena v Team Authority - Sting interferance
Hell In A Cell - Rollins v Ambrose - Bray attacks Ambrose via hologram
Night of Champions - Brock v Cena - Rollins attacks Cena
Summerslam - Brock v Cena - clean finish
Battleground - Kane v Orton v Reigns v Cena - clean finish

Before that RR to MITB are all multi-man main events other than Bryan v Kane and Bryan v Orton v Batista which are clean finishes.

Before that we got:

TLC - Orton v Cena - clean finish
Survivor Series - Orton V Big Show - HHH, Kane and Steph interferance
Hell In A Cell - Orton v Bryan - Michaels interferes
Battleground - Orton v Bryan - Big Shows knocks everyone out
Night of Champions - Orton v Bryan - clean finish but then result was revoked next night
Summerslam - Cena v Bryan - clean finish, Orton cash in - also Brock v Punk which had Haymon interferance
MITB - MITB - Haymon interferes
Payback - Cena v Ryback - clean finish
Extreme Rules - Brock v HHH - Haymon interferes
Wrestlemania - Rock v Cena - clean finish
Elimination Chamber - Punk v Rock - clean finish
Royal Rumble - Punk v Rock - Match restarted

So from 33 main events (I aint included the sub-mains) there have been 15 clean finishes, two of which are royal rumbles and two of which were ladder/MITB matches.

Pretty poor form for 2 and a half years of PPVs.

[Hero!]

I am also new to professional wrestling

[Spedizzo]

chatty

I am usually with you mate

but this is the worst thread ever and I feel bad you spent so much time researching it

do you remember the Attitude Era?

I think it's quite the opposite, really

I think with so many big time matches given away for free on RAW, too many clean finishes have been given away

[The Law]

For comparison, here's 1997 to 1999 mapped out:

Royal Rumble-Shawn beat Sid cleanFinal Four-Bret wins Final Four match clean
Wrestlemania 13-Undertaker beats Sid clean
IYH-Austin/Hart go to DQ when Hart Foundation runs in
IYH-Austin/Taker go to DQ when Hart Foundation runs in
King of the Ring-Undertaker beats Faarooq clean
Canadian Stampede-Hart team beats Team USA clean
Summerslam-Bret beats Taker because Shawn accidentally hit Taker with a chair
Ground Zero-Taker and Shawn go to No Contest
Badd Blood-Kane interferes, costs Undertaker Hell in a Cell match
Survivor Series-Vince screws Bret
IYH DX: Shawn retains because DX interferes to cause a DQ


Rumble 1998: Shawn beats Taker because Kane interferes
No Way Out: Austin's team wins clean
Wrestlemania: Austin pins Shawn clean
Unforgiven: Austin and Dude Love go to DQ when Austin hits Vince with a chair
Over the Edge: Austin beats Dude Love. Undertaker interferes to help fight off The Stooges. Call this one clean, I guess.
King of the Ring: Austin loses because Undertaker accidentally hits him with a chair.
Fully Loaded: Austin and Taker beat Kane and Mankind clean.
Summerslam: Austin beats Taker clean.
Breakdown: Kane and Undertaker simultaneously pin Austin.
Judgement Day: Austin beats up Kane and Taker, declares himself the winner. Height of fuckery.
Survivor Series 1998: Rock beats Mankind via Screwjob reenactment
Rock Bottom: Austin beats Taker in Buried Alive match with assist from Kane


Royal Rumble: Vince McMahon wins Royal Rumble after Rock distracts Austin.
St. Valentines Day Massacre: Austin wins cage match despite interference from Big Show
Wrestlemania: Austin beats Rock clean
Backlash: Austin beats Rock despite Shane's biased officiating, Vince gets involved and beats up Shane
Over the Edge: Shane's biased officiating costs Austin the title. Vince also involved.
King of the Ring: Mystery man pulls the briefcase away from Austin (it was Bossman).
Fully Loaded: Austin beats Taker in First Blood Match with assist from X-Pac.
Summerslam: Mankind beats Austin cleanish. Jesse Ventura refuses to count Triple H's winning pinfall because he used a chair on Austin.
Unforgiven: Triple H wins Six Pack Challenge. I think this was more or less legit.
No Mercy: Triple H beats Austin after Rock accidentally hits Austin with a chair.
Survivor Series: Big Show wins Triple Threat after Vince interferes and costs Triple H.
Armageddon: Triple H beats Vince in Street Fight after Stephanie turns on Vince.


I so count 13 clean finishes out of 36. Your opinion may vary on some of them, but it's in that range. 1980s WWF had a lot of clean finishes because it was just Hogan dropping the leg and going home, but it's a lot easier to do that when you don't have another pay-per-view in three weeks.

[chatty]

chatty

I am usually with you mate

but this is the worst thread ever and I feel bad you spent so much time researching it

do you remember the Attitude Era?

I think it's quite the opposite, really

I think with so many big time matches given away for free on RAW, too many clean finishes have been given away

Well I agree withyou there but they have itvthe wrong way round, should be screwy on tv and then mainly clean on PPV.

[Donald]

It's entertaining having screwy finishers.

[The Law]

This is fun. Here's 2000:

Royal Rumble-Rock wins, but later revealed his feet hit the ground first. IDK, call it what you want.No Way Out-Triple H beats Cactus clean.
Wrestlemania-Triple H retains because Vince turns on Rock.
Backlash-Everyone interferes, Austin kills them all.
Judgment Day-Ref bump, McMahon-Helmsley Faction run-in, Taker run-in, Michaels sees Taker Tombstone HHH and DQs Rock for the deciding fall. Except they screwed up the timing and it was after the clock had run out.
King of the Ring: Rock pins Vince clean to win WWF Championship in six man tag match.
Fully Loaded: Dusty finish with Benoit winning the title by DQ and Foley re-starting the match.
Summerslam: Rock pins someone in a Triple Threat match with HHH and Angle.
Unforgiven: Another Dusty Finish early in the match with Benoit getting a pin and it being overturned again by Foley. Rock ends up winning clean.
No Mercy: Angle wins after Rikishi and Stephanie repeatedly interfere.
Survivor Series: Austin/HHH match ends with Austin dropped Triple H off a crane while he's in a car. Fucked finish of the year?
Armageddon: Angle pins Rock to win Six Man Hell in a Cell.


So it's the best year WWE has ever had, and there were two clean finishes. One of which involved the world title changing hands in a tag match because Rock pinned the owner of the company. I do think there's more of a divide than just screwy vs. clean. There are good and bad screwjobs, and there are times where a clean finish is the wrong way to go.

[Nash Diesel]

You said it Law, there are good and bad screwjobs. Some might look good on paper but the follow up makes it worthless.

[Clive Plasma]

Extreme Rules - Brock v HHH - Haymon interferes

me name is paul haymon

[The Law]

2001!

Royal Rumble-Austin wins Royal Rumble without an shenanigans.
No Way Out-Rock beats Angle clean.
Wrestelmania-Austin wins because Vince interferes and helps him.
Backlash-Austin and Triple H win when Triple H hits Kane with a sledgehammer.
Judgment Day-Austin retains after interference from Triple H and McMahon.
King of the Ring-Austin wins clean in a Triple Threat against Jericho and Benoit, though Booker T does attack him early in the match.
InVasion-Team Alliance wins when Austin turns on Team WWF.
Summerslam-Rock beats Booker clean to win the WCW Title.
Unforgiven-Angle submits Austin with the Ankle Lock. Later revealed Austin's hand was under the rope before he tapped, but the decision is upheld.
No Mercy-Austin retains because Shane interferes.
Survivor Series-Team WWF wins when Kurt Angle turns on Team Alliance.
Vengeance-Jericho beats Austin after interference from Vince, Bossman, and Booker T.

So in a year known for screwiness, this one is actually better than most.

[lotjx]

Big Show does interfere at No Way Out on both Kurt and Rock, but had no affect on the outcome.

[The Law]

That's right. I mean, almost all of those main events had interference of some kind, so it's always a question of whether or not it really affected the outcome.

[The_Mike]

I think the problem isn't so much screwy finishes as WWE have developed a habit of either doing them at the wrong time or doing them really badly. Ambrose getting blown up by a TV is the sort of thing that never should have been on anyone's radar as a resolution to that match.

[Jaymz]

I think the problem isn't so much screwy finishes as WWE have developed a habit of either doing them at the wrong time or doing them really badly. Ambrose getting blown up by a TV is the sort of thing that never should have been on anyone's radar as a resolution to that match.

I think the bigger problem is that screwy finishes are accepted these days by fans because some of the booking is so transparent.

Was Cena vs Rollins ever going to have a clean finish? No. It's the start of a program, and the chickenshit heel always has something up his sleeve. Similarly, a clean Cena win would reinforce the Super Cena perception and be a significant knock to Seth's momentum. A screwy finish is the perfect way to get people to pay money for a match that achieves precisely nothing. Then maybe give them a finish a month or two down the line, something like a tag or Survivor Series etc.

Why give fans a definitive finish in the first match of a feud? It's not like there are that many top caliber superstars around these days so they have to string shit like this out.

[Bluegunn]

Rumble 97 may have had a clean finish in title match, but not so much for the Rumble match itself.

[The Law]

True. I used Shawn vs. Sid because they went on last.

[Nash Diesel]

I swear I remember Shawn hitting Sid with the camera, payback for Sid using it at Survivor Series. Could be wrong.

I think what's strange is that in the land of sports entertainment, mainly WWE and WCW, you just don't really see heels like Rollins going over clean. Which is weird, because a lot of times in movies, comics, you see the good guy having to resort to "heelish" tactics to defeat the bad guy because the bad guy is sometimes too superior to the good guy. So they assembled a group, or they use a weapon that supercedes hand to hand combat. With that said though, I see zero issue in Seth not getting a clean win more often than not. This isn't Lesnar or Big Show, some monster type of heel using dirty tactics to win (which they have used at times), it's a wormy fuck like Edge who rarely won a match clean, if ever, when he was main eventing.

[Badger]

I swear I remember Shawn hitting Sid with the camera, payback for Sid using it at Survivor Series. Could be wrong.

He did.

[Nash Diesel]

I will say this, to please the masses wanting Seth to get clean wins more often...It wouldn't hurt and it would probably add even more heat to his character if he won a few matches clean. But this is also an era where the work rate is being appreciated even more than the character at times, so I think that while Rollins cheating isn't anything to cry about, him actually going over without any bullshit here and there wouldn't hurt one bit. Even non-title matches it seems he has someone interfere on his behalf whether it's Owens helping him beat Cesaro or Wyatt helping him beat Ambrose.

[The Law]

I think what he needs is more of a mean streak. He's never really put the hurt on anybody. For comparison, I'm watching Raws from late 1999 and they did a great job of putting Triple H over as the nastiest motherfucker on the planet. He breaks JR's arm, crushes Foley's knee with a sledgehammer, destroys Austin's knees with a chair, smashes Rock with a sledgehammer while he's locked in a casket. He beats up Vince and Shane, curses out Linda and Stephanie. But he's also a total cowardly piece of garbage and begs off whenever he's confronted with a fair fight. He has Chyna backing him up so it's never one-on-one.

I'd like to see Seth have a bodyguard and a girl. The three of them would make a formidable team and could really put the hurt on the faces. He screws Sting at Night of Champions and then they hurt him and put him out for months. Breaking Cena's nose was a good start. It just seems like they never book hot angles anymore. It used to be a cornerstone that the heels would fuck the babyfaces up to set up the big match. The Horsemen breaking Dusty's ankle, Earthquake murdering Hogan, Bundy crushing Hogan's ribs.

[McBain]

I agree, I was just thinking this about his match with Sting. He should really fuck him up.