The UFC Fight Pass Events General Thread

[Mark Hammer]

Yeah, this card wasn't good. That main event was a travesty, and like everyone else I wonder why they thought matching BJ vs someone with no name (yet, but is a bad mf'er approaching his physical prime) on a nothing fight night card in Arizona was a good idea. It was barely win/win for Yair, and there was zero upside for BJ. If he won, so what? We'd all write Yair off as he isn't overly proven and criticize Penn for fighting some regional level scrub. Like Professor Batter suggested why couldn't he have fought Faber last month? I doubt anyone would have a problem with that booking or any potential result. Faber probably would have won but at least it would have been a profile fight, unlike this last one which surely this time was the last of Penn's career.

[Mik]

Yeah I'm not a particularly big BJ fan but I'm not going to bother watching that after what I've heard.
Last win over six years ago, four losses and one draw in his last five fights... Jesus man.
This is not the guy that destroyed Caol Uno in 11 seconds, that's for sure.

It's the same guy, different era.

[Fanny Batter]

While I agree with the sentiment that the level of fighter improves generationally, prime Rod Laver would still be able to work his serve and volley on prime Djokovic until Novak figured it out, stretched the court and beat him. This was old Rod Laver serving 60mh sitters to Novak who gets him off the court inside an hour.

[kangus]

Fanny Batter you take your damn dirty tennis analogies and banish them from this thread, you hear?

[Seanny One Ball]

It was a pretty good analogy though

[Spedizzo]

He also wasn't fighting Caol Uno or Joe Daddy Stevenson

I agree though, very odd matchmaking for a return fight. A guy who hasn't fought in X amount of years who it is questionable if it is capable if he can still go against a guy who has the potential to be a monster/peak of career... I only assume BJ pushed for it because he figured if he won he was a couple away from a title shot.

BJ Penn vs. Faber would have been a tremendous fight name-wise and stylistically

[OD50]

Well, BJ was supposed to fight at UFC 197 (opponent TBA), then at UFC 199 against Siver (replaced by Cole Miller) and then against Ricardo Lamas at UFC Fight Night 97, he probably said "fuck it, just give me anyone.."

Siver imo would have been the perfect fight for BJ, not saying he would win but it would be more forgiving both stylistically and size wise, he looked like a child next to El Pantera.

[Nash Diesel]

It was literally like the more changes to his opponent the harder they got lol. How the fuck do you go from Denis Siver to Cole Miller and then boom top 5 guy Ricardo Lamas? Yair barely ranked in the top 10 and maybe that's what BJ felt was the right move. He wanted to get a title shot at 145. He knows Father Time is not on his side. He has a name so that helps and then if he strung together a couple wins against top 10 dudes, especially younger dudes, then it wouldn't be that long of a path. He wasn't going to need 9 wins in a row like Holloway, this is BJ Penn. And if he came back looking as good as he talks leading up to the fight, then boom, why not end the year with Penn challenging for the 145 belt?

None of that happened though lol. I knew Penn was completely fucked once I heard an interview he did where he said it was going to look like a pro beating up on an amateur. And it did. But Penn wasn't looking like the pro. I hope he officially retires, the last 2 fights he's had were the worst performances of his career, he's soiled some of his legacy, not even sure why the fuck he wanted to fight at 145 to begin with. If he wanted that 3rd UFC title, should've gone up to 185 lol.

[Percussion]

I'd love to hear an honest conversation with Greg Jackson talking about Penn's chances heading into that fight.

We all more or less knew what was going to happen, Jackson's no dummie, he had to know. Just would like to hear it on the level.

[Fanny Batter]

He could possibly beat Darren Elkins. That's about as good a guy he COULD beat at this stage. And even then Elkins could probably take him down and smash him. And Siver but Siver's no longer top 15. Lamas would have crushed him. Jeremy Stephens would have killed him dead. If he wants to fight, put him against a Mike Thomas Brown, a third Pulver fight, Gomi, Yves Edwards, Leonard Garcia, equally shot, equally inactive guys from the same era. Penn vs. Gomi II in Hawaii I'd be up for. You just don't match him with beasts 15 years his junior. I'm guessing he must have watched what Edgar did to Swanson and Mendes and thought it was more Edgar excelling in their fight and not him being terrible. I bet a year from now when Yair resides in the top 5 he'll put it down to a great fighter being better on the one night instead of him being just done. That's fighting, the arrogance that makes these fighters great is the arrogance that gets them kickings long past their greatness.

[OD50]

Hm, BJ/Gomi II in Hawaii co-main eventing for something like Max Holloway/Jose Aldo. Doesn't sound too bad.

[Mark Hammer]

Am I the only one here who would have been meh over BJ/Gomi in 2017? For years that would have been money but two over-the-hill shells of themselves coming off a streak of poor performances going head-to-head has no appeal for me.

BJ/Guida, BJ/Siver, BJ/Fucking Lentz; those would have been adequate.

[Nash Diesel]

Am I the only one here who would have been meh over BJ/Gomi in 2017? For years that would have been money but two over-the-hill shells of themselves coming off a streak of poor performances going head-to-head has no appeal for me.

They've actually fought before back in 2003, in Hawaii. This was the fight right before he beat Matt Hughes for the WW championship.

Seeing these 2 go at it again would be like Rampage having those rematches against Wandy and Marvin Eastman in the UFC. Only difference would be Penn and Gomi would be on an even playing field due to their age and wear and tear from fighting for 17 years.

I really wanted BJ to come out of retirement and look good. He didn't even have to win, just look good. That fight was like when Ken Shamrock thought he could fuck with Tito Ortiz or Rich Franklin.

[Mark Hammer]

It's the same guy, different era.

Bollocks. BJ is now 38, looks 48, and hasn't had a decent performance in years.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah I mean I think there are certain guys who were ahead of the game in their prime who would do just fine in the current era. Anderson Silva, Fedor, Jon Jones, BJ Penn, GSP, there are more but I'm keeping the list to a minimum of guys who I feel in ANY era would be top tier fighters. I don't want to say "Imagine BJ Penn at UFC 1" because the knowledge of needing a variety of skill sets were not as prevalent as it became so he might have just been a BJJ guy but I mean, you take prime BJ Penn, put him in today's UFC, he's still a killer, maybe even more dangerous with updated knowledge.

[Mark Hammer]

They've actually fought before back in 2003, in Hawaii. This was the fight right before he beat Matt Hughes for the WW championship.

Seeing these 2 go at it again would be like Rampage having those rematches against Wandy and Marvin Eastman in the UFC. Only difference would be Penn and Gomi would be on an even playing field due to their age and wear and tear from fighting for 17 years.

I really wanted BJ to come out of retirement and look good. He didn't even have to win, just look good. That fight was like when Ken Shamrock thought he could fuck with Tito Ortiz or Rich Franklin.

I know they fought before, even more reason not to do that fight.

And no, it wouldn't have been like Rampage/Wandy 3 or Rampage/Eastman. That was unnecessary booking but there was still interest in both. Rampage needed to rebound from his (bs) loss to Forrest vs a guy who murdered him twice and at that time was losing a step but it wasn't glaringly obvious yet; people gave Wanderlei a solid chance the third time around. Ramapage/Eastman was random but I'm pretty sure they just wanted Rampage coming to the promotion looking good; and I guess there was nobody else available (?). BJ/Gomi II would be something I'd expect to see in Bellator. There would have been zero anticipation and honestly it would have been depressing as fuck.

[OD50]

I could see BJ Penn of say 2008-2009 do very well in todays UFC. Unlike some older fighters it's not that his skills are outdated, his boxing and BJJ is more than adequate for todays game, his mind and body just isn't up for it though.

[Nash Diesel]

I know they fought before, even more reason not to do that fight.

And no, it wouldn't have been like Rampage/Wandy 3 or Rampage/Eastman. That was unnecessary booking but there was still interest in both. Rampage needed to rebound from his (bs) loss to Forrest vs a guy who murdered him twice and at that time was losing a step but it wasn't glaringly obvious yet; people gave Wanderlei a solid chance the third time around. Ramapage/Eastman was random but I'm pretty sure they just wanted Rampage coming to the promotion looking good; and I guess there was nobody else available (?). BJ/Gomi II would be something I'd expect to see in Bellator. There would have been zero anticipation and honestly it would have been depressing as fuck.

I think they set Rampage up to fail from the jump. He beats Eastman, the guy who gave Rampage his first MMA loss years prior, we're talking like 7-8 years prior lol, and then they want him to challenge Chuck while Rampage is literally saying "naw I'd like to get another fight or two in before that" and he silenced the haters.

Rampage v. Wandy 3 made zero sense. At all. He was destroyed in both the previous 2 fights so a 3rd fight didn't really seem necessary. I still to this day without breaking it down considerably can't really justify the 3rd fight especially when back then the UFC were pretty low on rematches, especially when a guy was 0-2 against someone already.

I think the hardcore fans would have loved Gomi v. Penn 2 more than Penn v. anyone else he was slated to fight, including Siver and Miller. It would have been the fight we'd be going "Yes this is a way to kick off your path to getting a title shot" without realistically believing any of those words lol. Penn wasn't going to get a title shot at 145, maybe 155 if he was lucky. It would have been cool to see but man, kiss those plans good bye.

[Fanny Batter]

Thinking about it, BJ putting the fat back on and fighting CM Punk is the WME-IMG way. All in on that. Let Punk get this fighting thing out of his system, get BJ a retirement win and pop a big fucking rating on FOX.

[Mark Hammer]

a) I think Rampage personally requested the third Wandy fight, and

b) while Rampage was finished brutally the first two times vs Wandy one of those fights (I don't remember which) was kind of bullshit as Rampage was winning but the ref seemed to be very pro-Wanderlei and forced them up when Rampage was having his way on the ground. Then he got KO'd shortly after.

I also think Rampage wasn't quite prime vs Wandy 1 and 2 whereas Wanderlei was. Ok now that that's out of the way I will try to keep my fanboyism at a minimum.

[Nash Diesel]

It definitely felt when they fought the 3rd time that Rampage was peaking and Wandy had peaked several years prior. I still think the Cro Cop OPGW fight killed whatever was left of the Axe Murderer.

[OD50]

I think they set Rampage up to fail from the jump. He beats Eastman, the guy who gave Rampage his first MMA loss years prior, we're talking like 7-8 years prior lol, and then they want him to challenge Chuck while Rampage is literally saying "naw I'd like to get another fight or two in before that" and he silenced the haters.

Rampage v. Wandy 3 made zero sense. At all. He was destroyed in both the previous 2 fights so a 3rd fight didn't really seem necessary. I still to this day without breaking it down considerably can't really justify the 3rd fight especially when back then the UFC were pretty low on rematches, especially when a guy was 0-2 against someone already.

I think the hardcore fans would have loved Gomi v. Penn 2 more than Penn v. anyone else he was slated to fight, including Siver and Miller. It would have been the fight we'd be going "Yes this is a way to kick off your path to getting a title shot" without realistically believing any of those words lol. Penn wasn't going to get a title shot at 145, maybe 155 if he was lucky. It would have been cool to see but man, kiss those plans good bye.

Pretty sure the only reason Dana brought Rampage in was for Chuck to get revenge for the trashing in Pride (oups). Only reason they bought the WFA was to get Rampage's contract.

[Seanny One Ball]

Rampage fucking hated Wandy back then so he would have fought him anytime. You should hear some of the commentary Rampage provided for one of Wanderlei's fights in Pride. It might have been before their second fight, anyway he just spends the whole time slagging him off. This is after the worst beating he ever took too so he'd have sounded crazy to the viewers.

[Nash Diesel]

Pretty sure the only reason Dana brought Rampage in was for Chuck to get revenge for the trashing in Pride (oups). Only reason they bought the WFA was to get Rampage's contract.

Yeah this was when Chuck was on that "revenge" tour so to speak, wanting to avenge all of his losses. He avenged the Couture loss by winning the title, they then bring in Horn for his first defense lol. He only had Rampage left and boom, 2 minutes and he's out cold. I will say this, I might give Cain shit for fighting the same dudes over and over, but every single Chuck title defense was a rematch. Couture twice, Horn, Ortiz, Babalu, and Rampage. He had fought every one of those guys previously. But it wasn't exactly deep at 205. You basically got a shot at Chuck for beating Mike Van Arsdale.

[Mark Hammer]

Why would you give Cain shit for that? He rematched Bigfoot because Overeem (who was supposed to destroy Bigfoot and then challenge Cain) shit the bed and the two JDS rematches were necessary given the context at the time.

[Mik]

While I agree with the sentiment that the level of fighter improves generationally, prime Rod Laver would still be able to work his serve and volley on prime Djokovic until Novak figured it out, stretched the court and beat him. This was old Rod Laver serving 60mh sitters to Novak who gets him off the court inside an hour.

Prime Rod Laver would get beaten in straight sets by any of the top 10 players today. Every serve would be like a sitter to the top guys now. He wouldn't have the speed, the power, the athleticism.

[OD50]

It definitely felt when they fought the 3rd time that Rampage was peaking and Wandy had peaked several years prior. I still think the Cro Cop OPGW fight killed whatever was left of the Axe Murderer.

Yeah, CC caved him in and Hendo finished the job. Wand's brain was probably permanent mush after those KO's.

[Nash Diesel]

Why would you give Cain shit for that? He rematched Bigfoot because Overeem (who was supposed to destroy Bigfoot and then challenge Cain) shit the bed and the two JDS rematches were necessary given the context at the time.

Jokingly I give him shit, like man the luck of this guy. Seriously, since Lesnar the only guy he hasn't rematched is Browne. He was set to rematch Werdum so we can take that one away for the time being. I would not be shocked if we get a 3 rounder between JDS and Cain V sometime in the near future. But yeah, regardless of what might have happened had this guy won or that guy lost, Cain has fought pretty much the same people at least twice in 7 years. I'd like to say "Ah it's just HW" but rematches at HW are few and far between.

[Fanny Batter]

Who has everybody got at the weekend then?

Shevchenko vs. Pena shows the tumultuous last year of this division. Tate retired, Ronda as good as, Holly is at 145. Zingano hardly fights. So these 2 girls have picked up the biggest wins and are in a top contender position. Shevchenko took a round off Nunes but crucially she lost rounds by getting taken down, Pena's M.O. So I'm leaning Pena by using that strategy.

Cerrone vs. Masvidal is another huge opportunity for Masvidal. His UFC record is good, but it's 5 judges away from being spectacular. Every loss is super close. He has got championship level skills but lacks urgency and lets rounds slip based on lack of activity. Makes his man miss but doesn't always hit back for the exclamation point. Cowboy is Cowboy, super skilled, not great defensively. But he puts pressure on, hits hard, crafty on the ground. For me Masvidal takes it, particularly because Cerrone is 6 weeks removed from a tough fight, but it wouldn't surprise me if Cowboy stays active enough to nick it. Good fight.

Ngannou vs. Arlovski is sad. I want new blood at the top of the division and like the look of The Predator, but Arlovski getting knocked out wouldn't be great because I love the old school guys who were around when I started watching. Ngannou wins by KO.

Sterling vs. Assauncao is another great fight, Sterling has a lot of potential, went too hard early against Caraway and gassed but other than that has looked very good. Assauncao is world class. Favour Sterling by wrestling, as long as he paces himself and fights sensibly.

[Nash Diesel]

Aside from her extremely annoying and whining attitude, Pena is a solid fighter and could definitely take this one.

I'm hoping Cerrone pulls it off but Jorge is a tough as nails dude. Kind of a toss up for me but I'm going to lean toward Cowboy.

[Mark Hammer]

Cerrone/Masvidal flying under the radar a bit but honestly I would have preferred someone higher ranked (and not recently removed from 155) for both of them.

[Nash Diesel]

I really think the UFC wanted to get Robbie Lawler v. Cerrone and settled for Masvidal. Which he's not a bad fighter or anything but I know a couple times I've heard talks about Lawler v. Cerrone falling through and Lawler wanting to take a nice break. I don't really know who else is really available for Cerrone for example that would be ranked higher. UFC.com has him ranked as #5. The only people not scheduled for a fight ranked higher than him are Robbie Lawler-on vacation, Condit-who we have no idea if he's fighting again, and Maia. Cerrone v. Maia, winner gets Woodley-Thompson winner? That could have been a way to go and keep Maia active, he's on a 6-fight winning streak, for sure should get the next title shot, probably would have if the last one didn't end in a draw.

[Nash Diesel]

UFN Fight Night 105 has a new main event as UFC 208's fight between Travis Browne and Derrick Lewis will now be the Halifax headliner. This also features Hendricks v. Lombard at Middleweight. The card actually isn't terrible. A lot of names us hardcore fans know and appreciate. One fight that I'm really jacked for is Carla Esparza v. Randa Markos. Another good fight looks to be Liz Carmouche v. Sara McMann. Also kind of a fan of this Elias Theodorou kid. I was a little negative about this card at the beginning but at the time the only fight I knew about was JDS v. Struve 2 and didn't know what other fights would even be going down or if they'd be worth a damn. But now it's shaped up to be a really good Fight Night card.

[Mark Hammer]

They really ought to cater more to Randa (ie fed strikers with mediocre grappling) as imo there is a market to be tapped into. She's not going to beat Carla.

[Nash Diesel]

I think if JJ wasn't in the UFC or fought in a different weight class that Carla would still be the champion. I'm not gigantic fan of hers but I respect her ability. Randa is pretty damn good as well and I agree with what you're saying about the style of fighters she should be fed at this point but hey, you're going to have to fight everyone eventually anyway of all different styles so might as well test her against a top dog.

[Seanny One Ball]

You know the most annoying thing about Mark Hammer? He's right far too often.

[Mark Hammer]

Love you too Seanny.

[Nash Diesel]

I think I'm going to say Shevchenko wins tomorrow night. Pena has the skill set and the drive, but I think Shevchenko can take this one and she proved she belongs in the top tier with her win over Holm. Just like Pena showed she belonged with her dominant win over Cat. This is one thing that I do like about 135 and there are a lot of competitive fights in this division. Ronda was really the only one both in victory and defeat who made things look non-competitive lol. She's either waxing someone or getting waxed herself in quick fashion for the most part.

[Mark Hammer]

W135 is definitely shaping up with the old guard losing relevance and a handful of the top girls being recognized. I loved Miesha, had an MMA crush on her for a couple of years when she was in Strikeforce but let's face the facts; she was a good fighter who was fortunate to be a part of the division before it was established or credible. Gone are the days where you can possess such abysmal fight IQ and still hang in the top 3 for years on your toughness and ability to take a beating alone. The soccer moms who had their 15 seconds alongside Ronda aren't going to be ruling the division any more. I'm seeing skilled and rounded fighters take form, W115 better keep it up if it wants to continue being the superior women's division!

[Nash Diesel]

Amanda Nunes might be the fighter to usher in that new breed even though she's been in the UFC for a little while she's really evolved as a fighter and always seemed to be someone you saw the potential. I don't want to use Anderson as an easy comparison but just to generalize, you saw back in the day even in those whack defeats that Anderson COULD be something special in the near future. Took him a little bit but he found his stride and dominated 2 weight classes with virtual ease for years. Nunes might be that fighter. She's already saying she wants to fight the winner of the 145 title fight.

[Spedizzo]

The new era of women's MMA is that the old guard of women who trained full time and had legitimate camps but were beating the part time moms but weren't really good themselves are getting weeded out against women who have some skills and they themselves are now training full time and have legit camps

It is still spread extremely thin and I think it is ridiculous that there are 2 weight classes for the fatter girls

The 115 division is at least competitive with women who can fight

[Nash Diesel]

The new era of women's MMA is that the old guard of women who trained full time and had legitimate camps but were beating the part time moms but weren't really good themselves are getting weeded out against women who have some skills and they themselves are now training full time and have legit camps

It is still spread extremely thin and I think it is ridiculous that there are 2 weight classes for the fatter girls

The 115 division is at least competitive with women who can fight

Fatter girls wow. Like those fat fucking heavyweights. Holly Holm, what a lard ass.....

[Mark Hammer]

She's also saying she wants 2 or 3 more fights before retiring.

Nunes that is.

[Seanny One Ball]

Fatter girls!

Cheers for providing that misogyny in case anyone thought the MMA crowd had crown up a bit Sped...

[Mark Hammer]

Fat wasn't the right word. Unathletic I would say. For the most part obviously; of course certain world calibre fighters like Holly stand out but then there are the rest who seem slow and quite frankly uncoordinated. Which isn't a stretch considering again, a handful of the top women in the division picked up MMA late in life to get into shape and weren't lifelong martial artists like the bulk of the other divisions.

There are some husky women in 145 and above though.

[Spedizzo]

chubby girls? take a joke guys we are all alpha males talking about MMA on a wrestling forum. if we can't say fat girls here then I don't know where we can say it!

anyway

RIP Cowboy's chin?

Greg Jackson should have threw in the towel and not done the whole "WE ARE NOT LOSING IN DENVER" shit... Cowboy did NOT look right going into round 2 and I am 99% sure he had a concussion after round 1, but I am no Dr. Andrews (even though he isn't a brain doctor). He got messed up in round 1 and then he went BACK in there in round 2 and took even more damage

I think Cowboy's career will be going on a downward spiral from here on out and the days of taking fights on short notice have finally caught up Chris Leben style taking a toll on his chin. I was surprised when I saw Cowboy getting rocked repeatedly in his last fight, then he gets practically KO'd here. Once the chin goes it is never the same

Maybe he needs to go back to LW, I dunno. It sucks

[Nash Diesel]

RIP his chin? I wouldn't say that. Masvidal is a tough motherfucker. I think Dana White said it best about he's a guy who when he pulls the trigger, he could be World champion. There are a lot of guys who have fallen into that category imo. Guys like Kenny Florian, Brandon Vera, those were guys who would "choke" in the bigger fights but look like beasts every other fight. With Cerrone, that style brings that kind of result. He's never been a guy who I looked at and went "IRON CHIN". But he's not Rich Franklin chinny either. His style just invokes that kind of smash mouth result and he wouldn't have it any other way. I think there's life left in Cowboy for sure, this was just another set back. An unfortunate one.

[Percussion]

I don't agree that his chin can be fully written off just yet, but Sped wasn't making the point that because Masvidal took him out it must mean his chin is done, as though it's a knock on Masvidal. Just that Cerrone's accumulated a bunch of shots with a ton of frequency and we may be seeing the sum of them taking their toll now and moving forward, that's all. And it's not much of an unfair consideration given his schedule and his style.

Hope it's not that dire and he takes a minute for a change right now and we don't actually see him past his fill mark for punishment.

[OD50]

Cowboy got beaten up and dropped by Matt Brown even though he won, big mistake to fight six weeks later. His coaches shouldn't have let him, maybe Cerrone doesn't give a fuck what they say though.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't agree that his chin can be fully written off just yet, but Sped wasn't making the point that because Masvidal took him out it must mean his chin is done, as though it's a knock on Masvidal. Just that Cerrone's accumulated a bunch of shots with a ton of frequency and we may be seeing the sum of them taking their toll now and moving forward, that's all. And it's not much of an unfair consideration given his schedule and his style.

Hope it's not that dire and he takes a minute for a change right now and we don't actually see him past his fill mark for punishment.

The first part of my post was propping Jorge. The 2nd part was focusing solely on Cowboy and his style and what that style brings to the table. With Cowboy I don't think his chin is shot, I just think A-Masvidal is a tough motherfucker and B-Cowboy's fight just tend to have moments where he's eating some big shots, maybe he gets rocked. Until he starts putting on performances like Arlovski I don't think I'm on the "RIP Cowboy's Chin" wagon just yet.

Cowboy got beaten up and dropped by Matt Brown even though he won, big mistake to fight six weeks later. His coaches shouldn't have let him, maybe Cerrone doesn't give a fuck what they say though.

Yeah I get that a lot of fighters would like to stay more active, they're more loose if they have a faster turnaround which is why I think a lot of fighters don't want to sit around and wait 6 months for the next fight.

[Spedizzo]

yeah I didn't mean his chin is now immediately glass, but who knows what kind of damage he is doing to himself taking these fights and especially in this situation going back in there for round 2.

A lot of times once you see a fighter get TKO'd or KO'd the way he essentially did at the end of round 1 (let alone come back and fight in round 2), they are never the same again. He had to still have some trauma from his last fight too

Cerrone just had a 3 round war with Brown in which he sustained quite a few blows to the head, multiple times rocked, and jumped in there with a killer in Jorge really quickly. Knowing him, he will want to get back in there again with anyone to avenge this loss... I highly doubt Dana lets him unless a PPV or event is hurting

He is going to be 34 years old in 2 months and has 29 kick boxing fights, and 41 MMA fights under his belt and he has NEVER been finished like that before. The only time he has been TKO'd before was by body shots.

I just feel like father MMA time has caught up with Cowboy for living so fast paced kind of like Chris Leben and I have it in my gut that he won't ever be the same, but I could be wrong... just don't think I am

[Mark Hammer]

Masvidal is historically a decision fighter so Spedizzo is right. Getting KTFO like that (and he was, fight should have been stopped at 5:00 of the first) is a pretty good sign that Cerrone's chin has paid the price for his fight frequency.

[Nash Diesel]

3 of Masvidal's last 4 wins came via knockout or TKO.

I think what happens is when a guy who seems to walk through punches and not really get hurt or we don't remember him getting hurt, when that guy gets stopped with strikes we tend to jump to worst case scenario. Maybe Cerrone's chin is on the downslide, or maybe he just fought a beast who had been flying under the radar at a bigger weight class. Yeah he took some shots from Matt Brown, who hasn't other than Maia in the last 7-8 years lol? The guy is a monster.

[Spedizzo]

2 of his last 3 wins if you don't include this Cowboy fight.

and 1 of those was Jake Ellenberger who gets knocked out all the time now. Don't know who the fook the other guy is.

Jake Ellenberger was like Cowboy, a tough ass guy who had like 30+ fights under his belt and got finished by strikes like once in his career. Then he got into those Rory Mac and Robbie Lawler fights and was never the same. Whether it is because they are more cautious, timid, or their chin simply can't handle it, you just KNOW when you see a fighter go down a certain way that they aren't the same. Ellenberger is only 31, but like Cowboy (and Lawler) has fought in some battles and in TONS of them. You would think he is in his late 30s.

I don't think Masvidal is some title contender. He beat some shitty opponents (FW/LW Ross Pearson and broken Ellenberger) prior to Cowboy, and prior to that lost 3 decisions since 2015. He is just a solid fighter and fought Cowboy who was on a quick turn around, definitely had some damage from the Matt Brown fight and all his other wars, and now he might be really damaged

[Mark Hammer]

3 of Masvidal's last 4 wins came via knockout or TKO.

I think what happens is when a guy who seems to walk through punches and not really get hurt or we don't remember him getting hurt, when that guy gets stopped with strikes we tend to jump to worst case scenario. Maybe Cerrone's chin is on the downslide, or maybe he just fought a beast who had been flying under the radar at a bigger weight class. Yeah he took some shots from Matt Brown, who hasn't other than Maia in the last 7-8 years lol? The guy is a monster.

And his previous like 30 wins were via decision.

Also Jake Ellenberger is almost always finished via KO.

[Nash Diesel]

Ok....my point is simply maybe now Masvidal is living up to expectations. He once was a decision heavy fighter, now the last 3 out of 4 fights he's had he's won by finishing his opponent. You can make an excuse for probably every loss, shall we revisit Anderson Silva's 2 losses against Weidman just to get some fire in this thread? lol. I wouldn't do that to you Mizzark.

I personally think everyone is right. Cowboy's style is going to if not already wearing on him. Especially how active he is. But that doesn't take away the fact that Masvidal is a killer these days. In a tough division. Even in defeat, most if not all of his UFC losses were by split decision, some that should have for sure went in his favor. I just don't want to take anything away from Masvidal, I'm not saying anyone is doing that on purpose but I do think claiming Cowboy basically only lost because his chin is shot takes away from Masvidal's big win.

[Nash Diesel]

UFC FIGHT NIGHT 104 is this Saturday. Featuring the return of the Korean Zombie from his stint in the military to face top 10 Dennis Bermudez. Bermudez is on a 2 fight win streak after losing 2 back to back to Jeremy Stephens and Ricardo Lamas. No shame in that. Bermudez, he has a really good record I forgot he took a W from Max Holloway a few years back. Korean Zombie was last seen in a decent performance against Jose Aldo. KZ, has to be one of the most exciting fighters in MMA period. It's a shame he had to take a step away for the last 3 years right as he was starting to really make a name for himself in the UFC.

Plus the card features 3 women's bouts that I'm looking forward to: Alex Grasso v. Felice Herrig, Bec Rawlins v. Tecia Torres, and Jessica Andrade v. Angie Hill. Honestly all 3 of these bouts are pick 'em fights imo.

[Mark Hammer]

Ok....my point is simply maybe now Masvidal is living up to expectations. He once was a decision heavy fighter, now the last 3 out of 4 fights he's had he's won by finishing his opponent. You can make an excuse for probably every loss, shall we revisit Anderson Silva's 2 losses against Weidman just to get some fire in this thread? lol. I wouldn't do that to you Mizzark.

I personally think everyone is right. Cowboy's style is going to if not already wearing on him. Especially how active he is. But that doesn't take away the fact that Masvidal is a killer these days. In a tough division. Even in defeat, most if not all of his UFC losses were by split decision, some that should have for sure went in his favor. I just don't want to take anything away from Masvidal, I'm not saying anyone is doing that on purpose but I do think claiming Cowboy basically only lost because his chin is shot takes away from Masvidal's big win.

Let's revisit Silva-Weidman if you insist. Silva was old and Weidman was better. Now that that's out of the way, back to Cerrone-Masvidal. Cerrone is 33 or 34 and is past his peak.

You can make a rational observation without it being a slight to the other guy. You pulled this nonsense when people criticized Pettis his last fight and now you're doing it again.

[Nash Diesel]

Let's revisit Silva-Weidman if you insist. Silva was old and Weidman was better. Now that that's out of the way, back to Cerrone-Masvidal. Cerrone is 33 or 34 and is past his peak.

He very well could be. Or he could just be getting started. You never know in MMA. Look at Robbie Lawler. 5 years ago I would have laughed till I shit if you said he'd have the career in the UFC he's had the last couple years.

[Mark Hammer]

Did Lawler get clobbered like that at 34 just prior to his championship run?

[Mark Hammer]

I actually really wanted to see Cowboy vs Condit but my god Cerrone would have got murked.

Same gym I realize but that would have been fun.

[Nash Diesel]

Did Lawler get clobbered like that at 34 just prior to his championship run?

No he was getting clobbered and choked out prior to hitting his stride in his early 30's after being written off.

I actually really wanted to see Cowboy vs Condit but my god Cerrone would have got murked.

Same gym I realize but that would have been fun.

That would have been an incredible fight. I would still want to see that fight idc if Cerrone gets whipped or not. Condit is the man.

[Mark Hammer]

No he was getting clobbered and choked out prior to hitting his stride in his early 30's after being written off.

Exactly. Before hitting his stride in his early 30s. This Cerrone is more comparable to the last time we saw Robbie, except older.

[Mark Hammer]

And I hate to say it but a handful of Robbie's decision wins during his run were pretty damn contentious. As if the judges wanted him to win.

[Seanny One Ball]

Damn Mark I think I love you

[Mark Hammer]

Rampage Jackson is going to come back and shock the world. When his Rizin contract or whatever is up he's returning to the UFC in form. Straight howling at the moon and knocking jabronis like DC and Rumble out in the early rounds. Then he will rematch Jon Jones with his belt on the line co-mained by Conor McGregor in the highest grossing ppv of all time. If Robbie Lawler and old man Cerrone can do it so can Rampage.

[Nash Diesel]

lol, were you hacked?

[kangus]

Rampage had a great interview on the MMA Hour this week. VINTAGE RAMPAGE as Michael Cole would say.

[Nash Diesel]

Not really FIGHT PASS topical but where would you guys put Rampage at in terms of MMA trash talkers? He's a personal favorite of mine so I'm thinking top 5. I would say my top 5, not really in any order would be Rampage, McGregor, Chael Sonnen, Nick Diaz, and Brock Lesnar. Brock probably has people scratching their heads a little but for those who forgot, check his interviews whether it was after a fight, promo packages, the guy can talk and he was pretty entertaining. Who honestly didn't love his post-fight with Rogan at UFC 100? He loved busting Mir's balls.

[Mik]

I think the Diaz brothers have people scratching their heads a lot more than Lesnar does.

[Nash Diesel]

I think the Diaz brothers have people scratching their heads a lot more than Lesnar does.

Really?

I love listening to the Diaz brothers talk shit. It doesn't sound like it was something rehearsed, it doesn't sound like a pro wrestler or something mutated from Ali. It sounds like 2 dudes from the streets that don't give a fuck and have no filter. They also carry their share of the load in big fights. GSP v. Nick Diaz did almost a million buys. GSP was a huge draw for sure but he drew almost double than any of his previous and post fights with Nick. McGregor v. Nate...2 million plus buys between the 2 fights. Again, McGregor is a huge draw but Nate for sure helped those buyrates as well, perfect person to have opposite of McGregor.

[Spedizzo]

Conor McGregor is #1 as far as quickness, wit, and just obnoxious must-see hilarity. No one on his level in MMA. There is a reason he is getting paid record amounts compared to other fighters and it isn't solely because of his record and in-ring ability... but being able to talk trash and having having a charismatic Mystic Mac call out what round he will knock his opponent out and delivering was what kickstarted it

The Diaz brothers are good if you like authentic and accept them for who they are. Although Conor really killed Diaz the other week when he talked about how Nate is now Floyd's bitch and was acting like his lapdog during a Skype call with him. I like Nate, but Conor zinged him really good there. Nate really was a pussy

Brock, like the Diaz bros is authentic and is representative of who he really is. I don't think he means to trash talk and the only time he ever really did was for Lesnar/Mir II and that was because he was so fucking mad about how the first fight went down and what a cock Mir was acting like

Chael Sonnen is awful IMO. It is so fake and WWE like that it actually has become cringeworthy. He was OKAY after he fought Silva the first time, because no one expected him to take it to Silva like that. He was able to back up all the ridiculous shit he said for the first and only time in his career. Other than that he has been shit

I think Michael Bisping is underrated and comes in #2 although way below Conor. He can be really funny if you listen to what he says

A lot of people hate it, but I like Dominick Cruz and his very calm way of ripping you apart and making you furious. He is an intelligent guy and I was in utter shock when I saw Cody take it to him. PS: I am pretty sure Dominick Cruz is a closet gay but that is irrelevant

[Mark Hammer]

Never considered that about Dom but now that you mention it yeah I can definitely see it. Legendary fighter and fight mind though regardless of sexual orientation.

[kangus]

That was a fun little card last night hey?

[Nash Diesel]

Korean Zombie looked really good. Took him a minute to get the 3 year rust off but man if he can keep stacking wins like that, he'll be back in the title mix by the end of the year. Felice Herrig looked good. I was impressed. Jessica Andrade, according to DW, is FOR SURE getting the next crack at JJ. Tecia Torres had an expected impressive showing. So did James Vick, I like Vick, flies under the radar but man he come back after a devastating KO loss and really put it on Abel.

Even that softy skater dude Khalil had a wicked KO on the Fight Pass prelims, big knee to the grill. Same with Niko Price, put the dude to sleep right at the buzzer.

[Mik]

I was impressed by Angela hill too and Alexa grasso will come good. She's got a lot of upside for a 23 year old.

[Nash Diesel]

Bec Rawlings made some comments the other day about she feels the refs somewhat baby the women fighters, pointing to her last fight against PVZ where IMO she was fucked from the kick. Is she right or is it just fighter pride where they think, if I'm not out cold I still have a chance!!!! Is she just falling on the "I'm a girl" excuse because it's harder to argue that? I think so. She's an alright fighter but she was fucked in that last fight no question.

[Mark Hammer]

I was impressed by Angela hill too and Alexa grasso will come good. She's got a lot of upside for a 23 year old.

I'd like to make Alexa come good.

Thrilled for Vick. I like to think my motivation the night before helped him win.

[Mark Hammer]

And yes he is big in person. 155 has to be rough on him.

[Nash Diesel]

6'3" and fights at 155lbs. I mean if he's managing the cut just fine more power to him but then you have to wonder what kind of beast he would be at 170. He seems like one of those guys that are flying under the radar that could break out within the next year and have a strong run. 170 is deep but I think he could hang with some of the elite.

[Mark Hammer]

Anybody else watching this?

I like Randa so good for her but I don't think she won that. Kind of killed a prospective future contender in Carla Esparza and the 7-5 iffy 31-32 year old Markos has a lot of work to do to be considered top of the food chain and deserving of a shot.

[Fanny Batter]

Carla won the fight for me. I think Esparza needs to get active, a fight a year against non-ranked competition after being world champion is a killer psychologically.

Some really good fights thus far to be fair, competitive and of a high standard. Ponzinibbio's jab was gorgeous. Enjoyed Kid Zihabi's style too, surprisingly active.

Sara McMann has found good form. She's next in line after Nunes/Shevchenko you would think. Her against Pennington is the logical top contenders fight.

[Fanny Batter]

What an arsehole that Gavin Tucker is. Dances around Sam Sicilia for a decision and showboats throughout. That's Sam Sicilia, a very mediocre fighter. Put him away, dance when you outclass somebody that actually moves laterally.

[Percussion]

Yup. Thought Tucker was shining there in his debut, only to end up shedding light on what a twat he appears to be. Shame.

[Fanny Batter]

Hendricks is going to get murdered at middleweight. Barely beat a gassed fellow former welterweight, 39 years old coming off 2 stoppage losses. Even a Thiago Santos corpses him.

This card really fell off a cliff after the McMann fight. Let's hope the Black Beast delivers.

[Fanny Batter]

Fuck yeah the Black Beast. Type of heavyweight fight I love, both lads getting hurt then one going out.

[Mik]

Hendricks is going to get murdered at middleweight. Barely beat a gassed fellow former welterweight, 39 years old coming off 2 stoppage losses. Even a Thiago Santos corpses him.

This card really fell off a cliff after the McMann fight. Let's hope the Black Beast delivers.

Biggest problem with Hendricks is that he totally buys into his own hype. At the post fight press conference talking about how he has found his division and wants GSP or Bisping. I think had he lost this fight he would've been cut, there's a longer way to go to being back in the mix than beating an journeyman, particularly a small MW. Not exactly preparing him for some of the absolute killers in that division.

[Fanny Batter]

He's mad. It wasn't a bad performance by him but it was give and take fight against a small MW with a poor gas tank. Truth be told, they can possibly match him well enough to get into the top 10 - Marquardt would be the next logical "name" fight with a small 185er, and he's capable of beating Alvey and Boetsch.

[Nash Diesel]

Some really good fights tomorrow. A lot of NAMES. Vitor, Shogun, Kelvin, Bethe, Barboza, etc. I'm really looking forward to pretty much every fight. Mainly the Shogun fight. Shogun is one of my all-time favorites. I want to see him get just one final run and I don't necessarily mean as champion-which would be cool considering there aren't very many NAMES left at the top or guys as exciting. But I just want to see him rack up a couple more wins and either call it a day or get that one last shot at the strap. He has a tough task with Gian but I can see him weathering the storm and getting a win.

[Mark Hammer]

Forgot all about this card tomorrow. Great card on paper. Kelvin needs this win more than Vitor and I hope he gets it. Undisciplined diet aside he's one hell of a fighter. If he wants to send a message to Dana he should come in way under 185
He loves food though and one of the best things about being in a beautiful exotic country is enjoying it's cuisine so I won't hold my breath.

[Nash Diesel]

Forgot all about this card tomorrow. Great card on paper. Kelvin needs this win more than Vitor and I hope he gets it. Undisciplined diet aside he's one hell of a fighter. If he wants to send a message to Dana he should come in way under 185
He loves food though and one of the best things about being in a beautiful exotic country is enjoying it's cuisine so I won't hold my breath.

haha no kidding. I wonder if Vitor has the magic juice from High Times.

Kelvin came in right at 185, Vitor was 186. Kelvin could be a beast, he's evolved so much since TUF it's insane.

[Mark Hammer]

The way he beat the piss out of the much larger and jacked Tim Kennedy made me forgive him for being such a fat arse.

You could tell he was special on TUF (in spite of being the very last pick iirc, see kids, pro fighters don't know everything) and he bulldozed the heavy favorite Urijah Hall in the finals. He reminded me of a bull. But now he's a bull with sharp hands and footwork. Championship calibre imo, he just needs to get his weight in check because he will surely fare better at the top of his proper division than 185.

[Fanny Batter]

It's a really good, surprisingly relevant card. A lot of these FS1 cards can be light on that, but there's a lot to like here.

Belfort vs. Gastelum is a showcase fight for Kelvin, no doubt about it. Vitor is gone. That's not to say he doesn't have the power to knock anybody in the world out inside a round, but it will become steadily more infrequent as his timing, speed and reflexes continue to fade. Yes he's fought 3 killers recently, but he's been absolutely blown out in his last 2 and got crushed as soon as the Weidman fight hit the deck. Gastelum is good enough to win on the feet at this stage of their careers but I see him going with the path of least resistance and pounding him out on the mat inside two rounds.

Shogun is also gone, but he's fortunately fighting opponents of a lower standard than Vitor, seemingly the benefactor of timing and a shallow division. These fights he has against the Anderson's and Villante's are still close fights but they're winnable for him. Villante is 5-4 in the company and only OSP and Anderson (who he beat) have been ranked out of that lot. But he hits hard and Shogun gets hit a lot nowadays and his legendary chin has faded. I'm leaning Villante catching him cold early unfortunately, but I'd love a Shogun knockout win to set up the Machida trilogy fight.

Barboza vs. Dariush is the best fight on the card. Both guys have been in excellent form, Barboza finally getting some top 10 wins in great showings against Pettis and Melendez. He seems to be more disciplined and his striking technique is superb. Dariush is a great top grappler with improving hands, can clearly see the RDA influence. He does fade late though generally. I see Edson picking him apart down the stretch to win on points, but that Barboza chin will always have me doubting it.

Borg vs. Formiga is one of those fights that would be kind of irrelevant in a stacked division, but at flyweight the winner will probably be a fight or 2 from a title shot. Expecting a good ground battle, and while Formiga seems more polished, Borg is just a little bulldozer so I see him getting top position more and winning on points.

Correira vs. Reneau is another fight made relevant by a shallow division, and Bethe being a previous title challenger. Reneau is quite good, got beat by Holm in her eliminator but a solid all rounder. Bethe is a brawler who lacks power but will outland her opponents. Probably our token controversial decision to the Brazilian as Reneau lands the cleaner shots but loses by percieved output.

Olivera vs. Means II has a bit of bad blood and is between two long action fighters. Count me in. Means looked the better man last time, and didn't get hurt badly, so I'm picking him by TKO inside 2 hopefully with those nasty elbows.

Prelims have some good fights too, with 4 Brazilians on good runs. Trinaldo vs. Lee is between 2 borderline top 15 guys on solid runs, Trinaldo in particular. 7 in a row in that division so it's strange to see him in a prelim against someone like Lee, he's earnt a step up. Lee is a tough opponent too, he's a bit of a twat but he's athletic and has picked up the game well. If he can get over the partisan crowd I slightly favour him with his ground game.

Moraes hasn't lost in his 6. World class BJJ. Got to lean him by decision, he can be fun to watch.

Rani Yahya is like 8-2 in the UFC and he's still dossing it against unranked guys like Joe Soto. He's kind of boring, but he's an excellent BJJ fighter who has a nack of getting it to his wheelhouse. I think he beats Soto, especially in Brazil. Give him a ranked guy next though, Caraway maybe.

Michel Prazares is on a good win streak. Josh Burkman usually brings it. Guaranteed to go to points I think, with Prazares edging it because Brazil.

Rony Jason is a fun scrapper too on Fight Pass. Should be a fun show, at the very least the crowd will be up for it.

[Mark Hammer]

I love these breakdowns. I feel like you should get paid for them.

Bethe not only lacks power but she lacks athleticism as well. Her making it to the position she did (top ranked, undefeated for a while, got to a title fight) is further evidence of the state of that division though W135 seems to be on the rise right now. She'll win the decision based on constantly moving forward and being Brazilian. Ce la vie. She has an amazing ass though so I'm not too bothered.

[Fanny Batter]

She's Javier Bardem with a good shitter. It's an odd look.

[Mark Hammer]

At the Rousey weigh-ins she was indistinguishable from a piranha.

[Nash Diesel]

Bethe is the definition of a butterface but holy hell her body is killer.

[Mark Hammer]

I'd like to play bongo drums on her booty.

[Fanny Batter]

Mixed results for the Brazilians so far. Kevin Lee got a big win on the road, called out Khabib which is a bit ridiculous but I can see a Chiesa or Johnson in his immediate future.

[Mark Hammer]

Lol at that "draw". I expected the judges to comically give it to Correia so I suppose I'll accept this compromise.