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Thread: Star Trek thread

  1. #401
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Sucks but I'd rather them take their time and get it right.

  2. #402
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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  3. #403
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    palestine
    I smell a shambolic disaster.

  4. #404
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Maybe they just need to recast one of the women with an actress who has slightly more impressive jugs.

    Better not touch my Sasha though.

  5. #405
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Definately a little heavy on the evanescence/the fray-style heart string tugging effects, but on the whole that trailer did the trick of preventing me from thinking this would likely be just terrible. Still might be but I won't go in expecting so now. Looked polished as shit with some characters, and perhaps species, I may come to look forward to.

  6. #406
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    I'm happy that this will be on Netflix the day after it airs in the US. Hard to tell from that trailer, but can already feel the JJ Abrams influence from the recent movies.

  7. #407
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    My main reaction is disappointment with regards to the visual style. I didn't expect them to go uber-TOS like the DS9 and Enterprise episodes did, but it looks too similar to the new films and that's a style that I've grown tired of. The flares get repetitive and the interiors look stark under so much light. Hoping the story and characters hold up and the TV format lets them dig into some decent sci-fi and morality themes in amongst the shooting.

  8. #408
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    My five year old daughter said it looks like Star Wars and she is not wrong. I get the feeling its set in JJ World which at this point most fans hate. There is so much dour and bitterness here it feels like BattleStar. Star Trek is the hopeful future where we don't need to blow things up every five minutes. I would much rather see a story in the Trek universe people love about a new captain facing a Federation that is stagnant and needs a kick in the butt. The fact it seems like they are making the female lead a cross between Kirk and Spock is not a great idea. I am sure Yeoh will be great as the Admiral or Captain in charge, but the other female character seemed like a whinny millennial.

  9. #409
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    I probably wouldn't have an issue with this (visually) if it were set 100 years after TNG/VOY/etc, but someone in marketing must really be nervous to try something with Trek without having to rely on using the names of Kirk and Spock to sell it. They look like they're trying to shoehorn in an Alfred/Bruce 'Gotham' dynamic with the Sarek/young Spock scenes. They apprently abandoned the idea of this being in the Prime universe, since 'Ten years before Kirk and Spock' would have still had Spock serving under Pike.

  10. #410
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    maldives
    Ugh. Big batch of buzzkill here.

  11. #411
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    The only time I was ever a Star Trek fan is when my best friend and I would watch Star Trek: Next Generation. I tried to watch the first of the new movies and just couldn't get into it. I even tried to watch the old cartoon on this streaming service called Popcorn Flix or some shit like that, it was good for the times.

  12. #412
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    TNG was what I originally got into. Love em. Tried to watch the originals, and while I appreciate them, I suck at enjoying most things dated. Tried Voyager, DS9, and Enterprise to varying degrees of enjoyment. But didn't watch them much as they were airing, and nothing stood up to TNG for me. Enjoyed the new films though as big spectacle to-do versions of trek, and ultimately hoping this series is a comfy combination of old school TNG exploration/diplomacy/moral dilema and new era spectacle cinema and scope.

  13. #413
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    This looks fun. I don't much care for the new look klingons but whatever.


    One day we will get something set in the future beyond the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline.

    And it will be awesome as fuck.

  14. #414
    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    My main reaction is disappointment with regards to the visual style. I didn't expect them to go uber-TOS like the DS9 and Enterprise episodes did, but it looks too similar to the new films and that's a style that I've grown tired of. The flares get repetitive and the interiors look stark under so much light. Hoping the story and characters hold up and the TV format lets them dig into some decent sci-fi and morality themes in amongst the shooting.
    I felt the same about the visual style. It really does look like they just put the new films on TV. Nothing about the trailer gave me the impression there will be any moral ponderings either. I'm of a mind that Star Trek will never return to that. It all went out the window when Enterprise decided Roddenberry's universe needed 9/11.

  15. #415
    Noli Timere Messorem The_Mike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    This looks fun. I don't much care for the new look klingons but whatever.


    One day we will get something set in the future beyond the TNG/DS9/VOY timeline.

    And it will be awesome as fuck.
    Double post I know but I forgot to address this comment earlier.

    I don't think we ever will get a Trek set after Voyager, certainly not in the Prime Universe. I don't see any appetite to produce something like that at all; if they were interested surely Star Trek's TV revival would be exactly when they'd leap forward, but yet again it's a throwback. But of course I would love to see it happen, and I think if a production was willing to use its imagination for once, there would be scope for some really unique and interesting stories if it were set pretty far past the 24th Century. What would the Federation look like approaching the year 3000, after massive cumulative technological progression and a radical culture shift as humans start to live for a few centuries or even indefinitely? Would there be entirely sentient ships, and how would Starfleet justify their use? Could they finally be exploring new galaxies and finding untold, bizarre new life and new civilizations? Where else is there to boldly go?

  16. #416
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    Per Rancid and Atty's request, here is all the behind the scenes turmoil related to Star Trek: Discovery:

    What's Known

    - The premiere has been pushed back several times. There wasn't even a cast in place as of Fall 2016.

    - Some people in the industry believe that if CBS had any faith in the show, they would put it on their Network and not their Streaming Service.

    - The first design of the ship was shown at the 2016 San Diego Comicon and was not well received.

    - The person who got Discovery started left the production.

    - Bryan Fuller, the co-creator of the show and the original Show Runner stepped down last Fall and became just an Executive Producer. He was a hardcore Trekkie and wrote episodes for DS9 and Voyager. It was his dream to be the Show Runner on a new Star Trek Series. He wrote several scripts for Discovery and laid the foundation for the show.

    - The new team said they would stay true to Fuller's vision for the show.

    Rumors

    - The production was off to a bad start from the beginning. Leslie Moonves, CEO of CBS, is not a fan of Science Fiction. Bryan Fuller was said to have written scripts that would be true to the spirit of Star Trek and make fans happy. Leslie Moonves then began to micro manage everything and wanted the designs of the show to look more advanced and closer to JJ Abram's "Kelvin" timeline than the Prime timeline Discovery was supposed to be set in. Productions photos and concept artwork that have leaked out make this apparent. Fuller insisted that if the new series came across as another reboot and did not match the canon of the original shows, the fans would hate it. This led to Fuller being fired and not stepping down as he had announced last Fall. The new team is pretty much writing whatever they please and not following Fuller's guidelines despite saying they would in statements that were released following him leaving the Show Runner position.

    - Things start to get really crazy as the plot of the show is discussed. It could deal with Trans-dimensional Travel. Mark Lenard, who played Sarek on TOS and TNG, also played the first Romulan on TOS and a Klignon for a cameo in Star Trek: The Motion Picture. It would be revealed that those other characters were Trans-dimensional incarnations of Sarek himself

    - The companies that license Star Trek for merchandise tie ins are getting nervous because the look of the Discovery is closer to Abram's Star Trek. The merchandise from his reboots didn't sell as well as that from the original series. Because of this, many companies may not bother to produce merchandise at all for Discovery. These issues are one of the problems that may have attributed to the show being pushed back several times. Allegedly, the entire Visual Effect department was fired over this.

    - Many people working on the show are said to be unhappy and want out.

    - Netflix, who paid for this mess, are rumored to be furious over all the behind the scenes issues.

    And the biggest problem with the show? This is my own personal issue, but the title of the show abbreviates to STD

    More stuff coming on this.
    Last edited by Sasori; June 20th, 2017 at 5:51 PM.

  17. #417
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Well....fuck.

  18. #418
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Interesting.

    If Netflix paid for it, just put it on there. Star Trek would actually be a perfect Netflix series.

  19. #419
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Newest trailer..



    .. I like the discovery of what looks like a Klingon grow-room.

  20. #420
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    I had assumed that the pictures I'd seen were some cool new species, not Klingons.

  21. #421
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Perhaps those were...eastern Klingons?

  22. #422
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    italy
    The fuck..

  23. #423
    Amateur PornStar Randolph's Avatar
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    Those things better be to Klingons like Romulans are to Vulcans.

  24. #424
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    STAR TREK: DISCOVERY’S FIRST REACTIONS ARE VERY POSITIVE

    Although proper reviews of Discovery remain under embargo until the show’s launch date on September 24th, fans who got to attend the premiere in Hollywood on Tuesday night were permitted to tweet out their thoughts on the first two episodes. So far, the reaction has been very positive overall. Is this the grand return that Star Trek fans have been waiting for? It sure seems that way so far!
    Not the end all be all critique-wise, but a much better bit of press heading directly into the debut than everything else leading up.

  25. #425
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Sounds positive so far. I had a bad feeling when they refused to allow reviews to be posted until the premiere aired - hopefully that was just to prevent spoilers leaking out, rather than trying to prevent early criticism of a show that wasn't going to satisfy fans.

  26. #426
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    ​I am hoping this is a case of shitty trailer and rather good show. Sorta like Star Trek: Beyond.

  27. #427
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Beyond was quite good, aside from the silly part where Kirk plays like his in a Fast and the Furious movie. Would have liked them to have moved up the villain's story so it wasn't all at the end, because I quite liked that, but it came too late in the movie.

    This is me being a complete nerd, but I've been really hoping that they show Klingons looking differently in different regions. Like, in one region they still look like TOS ones, in another these weird purple things from the trailers and in another they look how Klingons are supposed to look.
    Last edited by Atty; September 20th, 2017 at 3:18 PM.

  28. #428
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    italy
    I was told we will see different Klingons ie TOS and TNG on the show. I have not seen confirmation though.

  29. #429
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    That would be good. Not a fan of them looking like Barney the Dinosaur.

  30. #430
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Netflix have confirmed that they'll show the episodes shortly after the CBS airing. The first two will be available from 7am GMT/8am CET on September 25th.

  31. #431
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post

    This is me being a complete nerd, but I've been really hoping that they show Klingons looking differently in different regions. Like, in one region they still look like TOS ones, in another these weird purple things from the trailers and in another they look how Klingons are supposed to look.
    I have had the exact...same...thought. For years.

    I love you and think we should touch weiners.

  32. #432
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    usa
    This show is going to suck.

  33. #433
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    If this show let's me down I'm gonna...I'm gonna...

    I'm gonna binge watch Enterprise or some shit.

  34. #434
    I'm Spinning Around! sam_elmendorf's Avatar
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    Enterprise rocked!

  35. #435
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Dr. Phlox rocks.

  36. #436
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    I am hoping I can stream episode 2 tomorrow on CBS. If not, this was a bizarre first episode. I am already sick of most of the crew minus the captain. The Klingon stuff could be really interesting or a throw away thing. I am not sure. Again, I'll watch episode 2, but man the justification from Sasha to start the special effect even that won't happen til the next episode was fucking awful.

  37. #437
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    It was nowhere near as bad as I feared. Perfectly watchable, but impossible to judge given what happens and what is yet to happen. The pacing of the first episode is pretty slow - personally I was ok with it, but I'm able to watch this on Netflix. I'm not sure I'd be happy to pay for another streaming service just to see that and I don't understand why they didn't just make it a feature length premiere instead of splitting it in two. Especially when it's a short season, relatively speaking for Trek.

    The JJ aesthetic is in full swing and there were a few times where it was almost laughable how much the series riffed on the recent movies. There's the lens flares, the camera flying upside down and through the bridge viewscreen, a Starship being able to fly below a plant's atmosphere, the style of ship-mounted phasers and torpedoes, the Vulcan learning centre, two officers running around an enemy ship with phasers, etc.

    I'll put the rest of this in spoilers for the benefit of anyone who hasn't watched yet.

    Last edited by Chris; September 25th, 2017 at 6:53 PM.

  38. #438
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    There was a bit of lipservice paid to long distance Vulcan telepathy in TOS eps like "The Immunity Syndrome", but yeah, it shouldn't be like making a phone call. And even that episode was when they decided to ramp "Super Spock" up to be a deus ex machina for whatever ailed the Enterprise by the third season.

  39. #439
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Apparently, you have to sign up to see episode 2. Well, fuck that.

  40. #440
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    the show is almost unbearably visually gaudy. very bad look. i got into the action at the end of the first and through the second episode, but everything happened too quickly to feel meaningful.

  41. #441
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It was nowhere near as bad as I feared. Perfectly watchable, but impossible to judge given what happens and what is yet to happen. The pacing of the first episode is pretty slow - personally I was ok with it, but I'm able to watch this on Netflix. I'm not sure I'd be happy to pay for another streaming service just to see that and I don't understand why they didn't just make it a feature length premiere instead of splitting it in two. Especially when it's a short season, relatively speaking for Trek.

    The JJ aesthetic is in full swing and there were a few times where it was almost laughable how much the series riffed on the recent movies. There's the lens flares, the camera flying upside down and through the bridge viewscreen, a Starship being able to fly below a plant's atmosphere, the style of ship-mounted phasers and torpedoes, the Vulcan learning centre, two officers running around an enemy ship with phasers, etc.

    I'll put the rest of this in spoilers for the benefit of anyone who hasn't watched yet.

    Agree with much of this.

    The Klingons were, how do I put this, not as bad as I was expecting but I didn't like their look at all. I was expecting/hoping them to look weird because of region and that when they showed the other houses, they'd all look different. When they all looked like purple Barney the dinosaurs, that was a let down.

    The technology of the era really irked me in a weird way. The holo transmissions were invented for DS9 and they made a point of calling it new technology when it was installed on the Defiant, so that bugged me. The Klingons, pre-TOS, having cloaking technology really bugged me. They never had that until Star Trek 3, and then they only did because the Bird of Prey was originally written as a stolen Romulan ship but they didn't film the bits explaining that and cut it from the film as it was too much to explain in the film. And then it became the standard Klingon design.

    Now to actual story stuff:


    All in all, I'm not sure. I could end up liking it, but the pilot gave me no real flavor for the show. I wasn't left wanting more and, honestly, would be perfectly fine if they left it ending where the second episode ends. The first episode was clearly structured just to get people to subscribe to see episode 2, but that's such a cynical move. Airing this as a 90 minute tv movie/prologue and THEN having you subscribe would have been a less scummy move. Series is clearly resetting after episode 2 anyway with the Discovery being introduced.

    Meh.

  42. #442
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, one more thing that really grinds my gears: I paid for their service but they still have fucking commercials on it. That's just another dick move there.

  43. #443
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    I am already seeing fan forums or reviewers trying to bully users into getting CBS Access. I feel that sorta goes against what Star Trek is about at least Roddenberry's Trek where this feels perfectly normal for Paramount Trek.

  44. #444
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty
    Now to actual story stuff:
    This is very true.



    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    Oh yeah, one more thing that really grinds my gears: I paid for their service but they still have fucking commercials on it. That's just another dick move there.
    It is quite embarrassing how Netflix have made this so accessible for international viewers and the US folk are getting shafted.
    Last edited by Chris; September 28th, 2017 at 4:38 PM.

  45. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    This is very true.




    It is quite embarrassing how Netflix have made this so accessible for international viewers and the US folk are getting shafted.



    And the fucking commercials are worse on rewatch. You can't skip them or fast forward them and are stuck watching all of them. Just put it on Netflix here too. It'll get more attention that way and some sort of deal between CBS and Netflix would probably serve CBS a lot better in the long run.

  46. #446
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Not being able to even fast forward them is overkill. It'll be interesting to see the reaction as the show goes on. Even if it wins people over, the way they deliver the show in the US is so ridiculously cynical.

  47. #447
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    I've not read any reaction beyond this thread so don't know how the show has been received but I fucking loved it. Had a grin on my face for 90 minutes. Star Trek

  48. #448
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    I must say, hearing the familiar chirps and beeps on the bridge brought a smile to my face.

  49. #449
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    I am on a Trek message board and its mixed. A lot of fans are pissed about the pay wall. Other than that, its a bit mixed. Not everyone is pleased about the main character's actions, but most are pleased Trek is back.

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    I quite liked it, Doug Jones doing Abe Sapien in space was interesting, I really like the Klingon commander T'Kuvma and his torchbearer are both excellent (I loved the cloak and ram technique)

    I'll agree with the comments on the captain but I think they were trying to play up the fact she's just totally unprepared for anything like the situation she's dropped in.

    I like Michael, she's not a perfect character but I think given time she'll become a firm favourite.

  51. #451
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    I thought it was ok.

  52. #452
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    Trying to watch the third episode now. Just over eight minutes in, the video froze but the audio kept going. Each time I rewind to try again, it freezes in the same place.

    Great streaming service....

  53. #453
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    I liked this episode more than the pilot.

    Tilly's the best character so far.

  54. #454
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Yeah I enjoyed the 3rd episode. It seems like they're delving into the conflict between the military and scientific values of Starfleet and that's exactly what I want to see. The JJ movies never really did that despite touching on the issue in Into Darkness and even the Dominion War in DS9 was mostly individual character studies. I really like that the Captain isn't universally respected and he's clearly holding back on what's really going on. All very intriguing.

    The body flying past the window at the beginning was hilarious to me - not sure if that's the reaction they were going for.

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    The captain always having only one tribble on his desk is telling me that he's either butchering them or loading them into torpedoes to fire at the Klingons. Please be the latter.

    If this had been the first episode of the show, I think it would have been a better intro. Reveal what Michael did to get court martialed throughout the season, rather than show it up front, but that's just me nitpicking. I rewatched episode three and liked it even more. Very good episode.

    Having characters named Stamets and Tilly made me laugh. I hope we get Ron Snow at some point.

    And the body flying by was hilarious. In a good way. Should have been wearing a red spacesuit.

  56. #456
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Still watching this. The characters aren't gripping me so far. I think giving Michael a Vulcan background and having her portrayed as T-Pol-lite restricts her from showing the kind of emotion which would make her predicament more interesting. I'm hoping for a little more depth to Lorca as the series progresses - it's refreshing to have a Captain who isn't popular with the crew, but you can only go so far with a hard-edged officer who will do anything to win a war. Sisko occasionally going to the dark side was more compelling than if that had been his only setting.

    The Discovery is basically the Galactica on steroids - being able to jump anywhere with extreme precision is something that could be very lazily applied and I'm surprised to see that kind of technology on display so early in the series. And while I got over them saying "Shit" a few episodes ago, I'm not a fan of them saying "Fuck" in Star Trek. Yes that might be a bit precious - but mainly it just seems forced and for shock value rather than something that fits with a massive exposition scene.

    My favourite character so far is probably Stamets, who I found annoying in the early going. I like his snark, but as with Lorca I wonder how long that trait can last before it gets boring.

  57. #457
    too big to fail Tainted Eclipse's Avatar
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    The Orville is the better Star Trek series tbh

  58. #458
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    This theory about a certain character sounds like it could be correct:



    EDIT: I haven't watched last night's episode yet.

  59. #459
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Anyone been keeping up with this? I thought the mid-season finale this week was the best episode yet, because they finally indulged in the traditional Trek formula. There was a mission to complete, the technobabble plot of planting the sensors was simple and there were some nice pay-offs for several characters. Lorca finally showed another side to his personality besides wanting to destroy the Klingons, though his computer display seemed to hint that he was responsible for the final jump which stranded them. And the implications are interesting as I see a lot of folk thinking that the crew are going to be exploring alternate realities which allows them to get away from canon. Personally, I don't think the lost-in-space angle will last too long and it's already been confirmed that the Mirror Universe will be appearing which might be where they've jumped to.

    The show still isn't firing on all cylinders for me. Too much is happening in the background. We know there's a war going on, but we don't see much of it. The big speeches about the crew's efforts and sacrifices don't feel earned. Stamets being the driving force of their jump technology was established in an overly matter-of-fact manner, but I'm glad we're finally seeing the consequences of it. The Klingons aren't interesting at all - they've been done to death for decades but their very nature means that they're rarely boring. Nothing about them feels Klingon and the show-runners could have easily invented another species instead. Episodes devoted to Sarek and Mudd feel a bit strange this early in the show, though the time loop aspect was good. I hope this week's episode is the template they use going forward because it was the one I was most invested in so far.

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    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    I've been watching and think it's very average. If it wasn't Star Trek I would have given up by now. Hopefully they fix a few of the issues from these first 8 episodes and they can round this first season off well.

  61. #461
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    I'm three episodes into discovery and I love it so far.

  62. #462
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    Anyone been keeping up with this? I thought the mid-season finale this week was the best episode yet, because they finally indulged in the traditional Trek formula. There was a mission to complete, the technobabble plot of planting the sensors was simple and there were some nice pay-offs for several characters. Lorca finally showed another side to his personality besides wanting to destroy the Klingons, though his computer display seemed to hint that he was responsible for the final jump which stranded them. And the implications are interesting as I see a lot of folk thinking that the crew are going to be exploring alternate realities which allows them to get away from canon. Personally, I don't think the lost-in-space angle will last too long and it's already been confirmed that the Mirror Universe will be appearing which might be where they've jumped to.

    The show still isn't firing on all cylinders for me. Too much is happening in the background. We know there's a war going on, but we don't see much of it. The big speeches about the crew's efforts and sacrifices don't feel earned. Stamets being the driving force of their jump technology was established in an overly matter-of-fact manner, but I'm glad we're finally seeing the consequences of it. The Klingons aren't interesting at all - they've been done to death for decades but their very nature means that they're rarely boring. Nothing about them feels Klingon and the show-runners could have easily invented another species instead. Episodes devoted to Sarek and Mudd feel a bit strange this early in the show, though the time loop aspect was good. I hope this week's episode is the template they use going forward because it was the one I was most invested in so far.
    I kept watching. In the end, the finale and the rip off of Cause and Effect were the only episodes I thought were really good. Their midseason finale felt closer to what it should have been all along.

    Really hope they use the break to react to fans, course correct a bit and leave the Klingon arc behind. Would rather the Klingons had been the TOS style, if only for the camp factor. There was also that one scene where they said the ship was a Klingon D7 but then it wasn't a D7. That strangely annoyed me as much as anything else.

    Jumping into alternate realities really would give the writers a huge do-over. They could easily say that they actually weren't in the prime line or have them eventually end up in the prime universe. The spore drive is kind of nonsense but could have worked if it were picking up after DS9 era or on a totally different series. As is, it just makes me wonder why Kes wasn't growing mushrooms in Voyager's hydroponics bay. They could have gotten home immediately!

    Quote Originally Posted by Marlon Dingle View Post
    I've been watching and think it's very average. If it wasn't Star Trek I would have given up by now. Hopefully they fix a few of the issues from these first 8 episodes and they can round this first season off well.
    This was so true for me.

  63. #463
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    Really hope they use the break to react to fans, course correct a bit and leave the Klingon arc behind. Would rather the Klingons had been the TOS style, if only for the camp factor. There was also that one scene where they said the ship was a Klingon D7 but then it wasn't a D7. That strangely annoyed me as much as anything else.
    I hate the design of the Klingon ships and the style of weapons in the space battles. But there has been such a visceral reaction from some Trek fans that I don't think they'll want to give the satisfaction of changing things. I don't hate it - it just doesn't feel like a Trek show to me most of the time. Setting the show after Voyager would have allowed them to introduce new species and alliances between the big powers, have there be a credible reason for updated technology and actually lessen the impact of established canon.

    The Cardassians and Bajorans were over-hauled in DS9 despite what had been set up beforehand and the show went on to realign the roles of the Klingons, Romulans and the Ferengi. You didn't need to watch TNG to know what was going on - they just took the established elements and put their own spin on them. A prequel means that they're juggling fan service moments and trying to do something radically different and that's a hard balance to maintain.

  64. #464
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    I honestly think Star Trek's Prequels are worse than Star Wars. Enterprise was a mess for the first few seasons. The New Trek movies are either good to terrible to just ok. This is somewhere near the bottom. Star Trek fans know the history cold. For almost a decade or two all they had was reruns of the classic to instill that world for fans. Star Wars fans had a few sentences about the Republic, Jedi and Vader's fall. The rest is just fanboy theories. Star Trek had a number of episodes about who the Federation were, the backgrounds of the characters and the various wars involving all the races. It is just way too much to ignore. Then you add the movies and spin-offs were they do more world building then you are fucked. Star Trek if there is another series just needs to eat the bullet and do it after Voyager. Do a Force Awakens were we see where some of the old characters are and go from there. Its what fans want anyway. Trek fans are just done with Prequels especially you have to buy it ones.

  65. #465
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter how far after Voyager. They can have The Sisko return any time.

  66. #466
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    Almost done with my rewatch of DS9. Just a few episodes to go.

    "The Sisko" should be the name of the next show.


    I'm not sure what I'm watching next. Voyager I suppose.

  67. #467
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    Quentin Tarantino is making a Star Trek movie. From Deadline.com:

    Quentin Tarantino Hatches ‘Star Trek’ Movie Idea; Paramount, JJ Abrams To Assemble Writers Room

  68. #468
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Please don't be a prequel! Please don't be a prequel! Please don't be a prequel!

  69. #469
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    This is from awhile ago

  70. #470
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    A few days into Quentin talk and Patrick Stewart says he'd come back for him.

    With the clip above being Tarantino talking about how Yesterday's Enterprise was the best, that could all make for something really great. Some form of Tomorrow's Enterprise with Picard coming in could be epic. Finally do Picard/Kirk meeting properly.

  71. #471
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Watching First Contact right now, I miss the TNG crew. They deserved better to go out with Nemesis. Even if QT does not direct, I want them to do a TNG movie ala Force Awakens.

  72. #472
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    First Contact is so great. It was one of the first things I watched on my new giant ass 4K tv. Even if just upscaling, it looked like sex on a stick.

    Picard looks the same now as 30 years ago, so he's an easy one to plug in whenever. Frakes could appear too if they want Jabba in Star Trek.

    As weird as this may sound, I think Data could be pulled off really well with capture and cg now. He's a robot after all and anything that looks fake would just play into that. Spiner could voice.

  73. #473
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    TNG did deserve better. Trouble is, they ended up being Trek's "middle child" and was expected to ride on the good will of TOS when it came to the movies, but got stuck with shit stories for their last 2 movies. Set up for failure.
    QT seems to have a genuine love for TOS. I was kinda skeptical when he was announced to direct a couple CSI episodes a decdae ago, but he showed that he knows how to "color within the lines" when it comes to established characters and working on a procedural show. Sure, he managed to sneak in a few QTisms, but it still felt like another episode of the series, too. I'd trust him to do Trek right more than Abrams and his buddies (who really only did ST to get the cred to move onto Star Wars). Plus, Tarantino would probably do right by the soundtrack, too, and not just rely on one tired Beastie Boys song over 3 movies.

  74. #474
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    Q could do Q.

  75. #475
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    Is Spiner in bad shape or something?

  76. #476
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    No, but Data is suppose to be ageless and well no one is. I also think he was sick of the makeup. I think if Patrick comes back, the rest will fall in line. They seem to be a really tight group. I wouldn't mind if they aged either. We all seem to be ok with white hair Han and Luke.

  77. #477
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    It took me a few years (I don't binge) but I finally made it through my DS9 rewatch just now.

    Best. Trek. Ever.

    God there should have been a fucking movie. I have tears in my eyes right now.


    I am Odo's spiffy tuxedo.

  78. #478
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Such a great show. I don't think we'll ever get the Blu-ray remaster because of the cost, but I still hold out hope.

    Too many episodes to mention. "In the Pale Moonlight" is a tour-de-force for Sisko and pushed the shades of grey to the absolute limit. The confrontation between Sisko and Garak at the end is brilliant. "Duet" is a masterclass from Nana Visitor. They mined so much material out of an occupation that we never saw on-screen. "Necessary Evil" is another class episode reflecting on that time period. "The Wire" is a brilliant vehicle for Garak - like the Joker from The Dark Knight, I love the way he keeps changing his backstory. "Whispers" is a lovely O'Brien show - he was the perfect everyman for the audience. I find "The Way of the Warrior" a hugely enjoyable action show with virtually all of the cast given something to do. The show also had some fantastic two-parters like "Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast" and "In Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light". I wasn't a fan of many of the Ferengi episodes and I think the writers became a bit self-indulgent with Vic Fontaine.

    It was a joy to watch characters like Garak, Weyoun and Kira - the acting was incredible at times. Dukat became a little one-dimensional by the end, but he was so well written prior to season 7 (and I did like his stuff with Kai Winn that season). His genuine belief that he was a benevolent dictator who should be looked upon fondly by the Bajorans was never far from the surface, even when he was used as comic relief. It was a show with properly developed villains - the relationships between Weyoun/Dukat and Weyoun/Damarr in the final two seasons were brilliant and a number of the Jem'Hadar episodes were great at making them more than nameless alien soldiers. "Rock and Shoals" is a near-perfect look at the mistrust between them and the Vorta.

    Much like Babylon 5, I love how it feels like a real universe where the political alliances change over time. We get the Maquis being established, the Klingons invading Cardassia, the Cardassians joining the Dominion, the Maquis being wiped out and the Romulans gradually coming into the mix. It was the sense of scale that I really enjoyed. It's great that we got to see Gowron a few times and that he was given a send-off. I'm still amazed that they never featured the Borg outside of the flashback scene in the very first episode. Thomas Riker was an inspired way of getting Frakes onto the show and I share his pain that Thomas is STILL locked up in a Cardassian labour camp.

    It really set the bar for space battles and it's nice to see how the effects improve over the course of the series. They go from quick and small-scale dogfights with the Runabouts to the station repelling full-blown fleets and ships getting smashed and torn apart as they fly past the camera. My favourite moments have to be Sisko taking the helm of the Mirror Defiant and racing around Regent Worf's Alliance cruiser and the Galaxy-class starships pounding a Cardassian ship with phasers as the fleet races through the hole in the Dominion lines in "Sacrifice of Angels".

    I was a little disappointed with the finale. It felt like the conflict with the Dominion was wrapped up too easily with Odo "convincing" the Founder to change her ways. The re-use of space battles from previous episodes was lazy and didn't fit with the newer footage at all. And Sisko vs Dukat lost a bit of intensity due to the fact that Dukat was just a plain evil entity rather than the complex character that he had been for years. That being said, the Cardassians turning the tide and paying the price was superb and the montages of the various characters are lovely. In fact, the final run of episodes from "Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges" onwards are really strong. It's a real shame that we're still stuck with a focus on prequels and alternate timelines, when DS9 left the perfect jumping off point for a new series. Even if a new show didn't directly follow DS9, I feel like the relationships between various alien races and different characters living and working together is Trek at its absolute best and what the franchise needs to go back to rather than continuing with the theme of a ship travelling through space.

  79. #479
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I enjoyed the finale. If it suffered for any reason it was probably the desire to give every character an ending. Perhaps "All Good Things" had it right in it's simplicity. Keep it about the main guy and then have a nice little end scene with all your primaries. Still though, Odo's decision is so heartbreaking. Gets me every time.

    The only frustrating thing is they seem to clearly be of the mindset that The Sisko would be coming back for the movie adaptation. Without the film it feels like a loose end. Nonetheless it's a brave way to end his arc on the show.

    ...on to Voyager I suppose.

    Chakotay/Janeway > Chakotay/Seven all day.

  80. #480
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    DS9 had such a huge canvass that it was impossible to bring everything to a fitting conclusion. When you see Garak and Weyoun in a room together for a brief moment, you want to see a full episode devoted to them. One of the small moments I liked in the finale was Nog's promotion - he was one of the many examples of how characters developed so well over those 7 years.

    Voyager has a watchable quality and a number of very strong episodes scattered amongst its run. The first season actually tries to play on the tensions between Starfleet and the Maquis and then the show gradually becomes focused on xenophobic aliens/shuttle crash of the week. For a show that was devoid of the kind of relationships we saw on DS9, I really liked the pairing of Tom and B'Elanna. But the potential of the show was wasted, the number of times the characters were duped by an alien race or a possible "way home" made them look utterly naive and the amount of Seven and Borg episodes got ridiculous.

  81. #481
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Almost like Seven was dating the show runner...

    Voyager is probably my favorite set up to a Trek show, it's just not followed through on at all. A ship comprised of two crews with no contact with Starfleet that's exploring the unknown? That's all they need right there. You have built in drama between the two crews, the chance to conflict within a crew as they assimilate to one another and entirely new aliens. Instead, it fell right back on the reset button and constantly tried to play it safe and do "mission of the week" the end of which the reset button would be hit and they'd be right back where they were at the start of the episode.

    They talked about resources throughout (the limited number of photon torpedoes comes to mind) but then never actually ran out. Some great stories could have been had over their finite resources and how they had to adapt to survive. Basically, Equinox seemed like it could have made for a better show.

    I hated Janeway as a kid, but love her now. She's great and that Mulgrew plays her as not being perfect makes it all the better. Some great stories could have been had about her wrestling with her decisions (ala Sisko), but they'd just hit the reset button at the end of the week. Love the idea that she's a fairly new captain, groomed for a science mission and gets thrown in over her head. She sticks to her decisions (Borg alliance, destroy their way home, fuck you Paris, etc) and that makes for a good character.

    Half the cast went unused as the show went on. Kim wasn't killed off because he was in a teen magazine and never did anything interesting after being spared. Chakotay could have had potential but fell too quickly into the Starfleet mold and became very bland. Neelix was wasted once they wrote Kes off because of Kim's magazine.

    I'll never understand how a mutiny cliffhanger was never done. That would have been better than the Kazon nonsense.

  82. #482
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancid_Planet View Post
    I enjoyed the finale. If it suffered for any reason it was probably the desire to give every character an ending. Perhaps "All Good Things" had it right in it's simplicity. Keep it about the main guy and then have a nice little end scene with all your primaries. Still though, Odo's decision is so heartbreaking. Gets me every time.

    The only frustrating thing is they seem to clearly be of the mindset that The Sisko would be coming back for the movie adaptation. Without the film it feels like a loose end. Nonetheless it's a brave way to end his arc on the show.

    ...on to Voyager I suppose.

    Chakotay/Janeway > Chakotay/Seven all day.
    I don't think they ever thought DS9 would realistically get a movie. That's why everyone was wrapped up with a nice bow. But, fuck me, Nemesis was a waste. They could have had it as a giant wrap up of everything, not just a weak send off of next gen. Easily could have had Voyager assisting the Enterprise, the Defiant coming in for a timely save and sending a lot of characters off.

    But nah. Let's just have Picard have a clone that's bald for some reason and not-Lore. That's the ticket!

  83. #483
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    They talked about resources throughout (the limited number of photon torpedoes comes to mind) but then never actually ran out. Some great stories could have been had over their finite resources and how they had to adapt to survive. Basically, Equinox seemed like it could have made for a better show
    .

  84. #484
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    DS9 was amazing almost all the way through. I think like TNG before it most of the last season is a waste. The Dominion War should have ended in season six with season seven being all the reshaping the Quadrant stuff. You could still do the Dukat/Kia Wynn thing since it had zero impact on the war. I just wish they would have kept Sisko alive. I would have preferred all of the heroes fighting Super Dukat maybe it being Kira who finally kills him instead of Sisko. I also think it was stupid to reuse the Sacrifice of Angels battle for the finale when they teased this big fight for three years. Still, I was in total shock of the fate of Cardissa and Martok still drinking Klingon blood wine over the bodies of possibly innocent people. Martok was the best Klingon ever.

  85. #485
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atty View Post
    I don't think they ever thought DS9 would realistically get a movie. That's why everyone was wrapped up with a nice bow. But, fuck me, Nemesis was a waste. They could have had it as a giant wrap up of everything, not just a weak send off of next gen. Easily could have had Voyager assisting the Enterprise, the Defiant coming in for a timely save and sending a lot of characters off.

    But nah. Let's just have Picard have a clone that's bald for some reason and not-Lore. That's the ticket!
    The Nemesis space fight is amazing though. As bad as that film is, when the battle happens the movie actually feels like TNG for a bit. The disgusting part of that fight is all they have to do is just get past this nebula and there is like fifty Starfleet ships waiting for the Romulans. There is a great story in Nemesis, it just needs Lore helping a Romulan Senator instead of Clone Picard and B4.

  86. #486
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Lore and Sela. Or even have her be the romulan who turns face at end. Tasha’s daughter as the villain or the face turn would have been a nice bookend for TNG.

  87. #487
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    I hated Nemisis. Fucking Insurrection was better and it was just a 90 minute long TNG episode.

    Anyway I know Voyager has it's flaws. But I have to start something Star Trek and I can't just watch DS9 again. Can I? No...no surely not.

    I've seen TNG beginning to end a thousand times (in the old days I'd do it with the Trek Encycolpedia in lap and research), Enterprise wasn't that long ago that I watched.

    Voyager it is. The adventures of female Kirk and co.

  88. #488
    E-Bow The Poster Rancid_Planet's Avatar
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    And I've finished the premiere episode. I haven't actually watched this one since it first debuted. Man this show had promise. It's too bad it eventually falls into a routine but nonetheless the cast of characters is still as good as anything any trek show has put together.

    Maybe I'll finish rewatching this one before the decade is out.

  89. #489
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    Voyager has a good first season on the whole, Chakotay actually has stuff to do, god bless him, and there's a core group of characters in Torres, Seska, Carey and Kim who actually drive the Starfleet/Maquis tension and the desire to get home by less honourable means. There's a nice arc with that group which comes to a head in "State of Flux" which is one of Voyager's best episodes in my book. I also really like "The Cloud" - a complete rip-off of a TNG plot, but it gives a chance for all the characters to breathe. But then you get to the episode where a dog is Tuvok's prime witness to a murder and you realise that the on-going quality of the show is going to lurch pretty violently.

  90. #490
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    What do you guys think made TNG the more appealing of any post-original Star Trek series? Was it the gap between the original and TNG whereas we've seen what, 7 different shows in the last 20 years? I was never really into the movies, the original show, the cartoon, but for some reason my best friend and I would consistently watch New Generation.

  91. #491
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    Picard, Data and wanking over Troi under my school trousers when no-one else was in the house oh no I've said too much

  92. #492
    What the fucks up Dennys! Nash Diesel's Avatar
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    I don't remember this version of Troi but the side boob could have been used more frequently.

  93. #493
    She was a lot like you Atty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanny View Post
    Picard, Data and wanking over Troi under my school trousers when no-one else was in the house oh no I've said too much
    You waited until no one else was in the house?

  94. #494
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nash Diesel View Post
    What do you guys think made TNG the more appealing of any post-original Star Trek series? Was it the gap between the original and TNG whereas we've seen what, 7 different shows in the last 20 years? I was never really into the movies, the original show, the cartoon, but for some reason my best friend and I would consistently watch New Generation.
    TNG had the McCoy scene where he passes the torch to Data by discussing how the Enterprise is important. To me, that scene in the pilot is the most important moment in TNG. It makes you care about the crew. At that point Star Trek fans got behind in it even though the first season is fucking awful. For the life me, I still have no idea how they got to Code of Honor to Q Who in a year. Its like watching a film school student in his freshman year not know how to work a camera and a year later, he has an independent film that made money and is critically acclaimed.

    The cast also feels like family. DS9 came close to that, but the needless cast changes in season seven kinda puts a damper on that. The show is also hopefully as fuck at times. DS9's best stories deal with war. Voyager is a bunch of sad sacks who are lost. Enterprise is fine as a crew, but they are cookie cutter versions of people we know plus the constant fucking around with the timeline. TNG is straight forward and you can pop on one episode without having to wade through years of continuity. TNG is one of those shows that really should have failed yet, survived enough to be just as successful as its predecessor. It just sucks that their final outing was a massive disappointment. I still say they deserve another crack at it.

  95. #495
    Cirque du Soleil Chris's Avatar
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    So Discovery is back, Not going to use spoiler tags if that's ok, but beware below if you haven't had a chance to see it yet.

    ---------

    They've pulled the trigger on Tyler, though I like the twist that whatever he is has not gone to plan. The gory and sexualised flashbacks are a bit over-the-top for me, but the actor is doing a good job portraying the trauma. Nice preview of the reveal by having Saru's threat ganglia pop up when he walked into the Bridge.

    I enjoyed a lot of the character scenes in this episode. Discovery needs to be more like this. I can see what they they were going for with the crew's shock about the Terrans' values, but I don't feel it was earned because we haven't seen enough of the real Starfleet and its own ideals.

    Tilly is someone who walks a fine line for me, but I have found her more endearing as time has gone on and I liked seeing her "in command". It was nice that she was pretty bad at the act at first. It always niggled me that the characters in some of the other Mirror episodes picked up their counterparts' traits so quickly.

    Hard to judge the death without seeing what comes next. My initial feeling was that it seemed like they were aping the Game of Thrones shock factor. Culber was finally getting into his groove in this episode. It's already left a bit of a bad taste considering he's one half of the show's gay couple, to the point that the actor has quickly come out to say he'll be back in some form. So while it's annoying to see yet another cast member offed, hopefully it's handled well in subsequent episodes.

  96. #496
    World Champion Marlon Dingle's Avatar
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    I'm still struggling with this, I feel it's so close to being great, but they just keep falling into too many obvious cliches for it to become interesting.

    I think I'll see it out till the end of this season but if they don't come up with a storyline that I can invest in, I'll probably not come back to Season Two.

    Lorca is my favourite character and I liked his Scottish accent this episode. I get that they are holding on to his backstory, but I think we need to hear it sooner than later, the longer he remains a mystery the longer we will suspect him of being a baddie.

  97. #497
    83% Insane Rip's Avatar
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    I’m in a similar boat Marlon, I like it but it’s just not ‘right’ somehow and it’s starting to irritate me in little ways, I think part of the problem is that as it’s set in the history of the timeline we’re used to I keep thinking ‘but why hasn’t this been mentioned before’ every time they do something even slightly significant, it’s hard to suspend disbelief as much as the show keeps asking us to.

  98. #498
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    palestine
    the Mirror Universe. Really. Really? REALLY? Fucking hell. Shark jumped.

  99. #499
    GP OG Percussion's Avatar
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    Captain Killy is great.
    Don't give a shit about Culber.
    Especially seeing as it was at the hands of Voq, which is kinda awesome.
    The human touches this episode were nice.
    Surely Lorca can recognize that Tyler is unfit?
    Looking forward to Emporer Georgiou, hoping for Emporer Saru.
    Was high as a kite and so may have heard wrong, but did they say they switched places with the real iss discovery? And so that ship is now in the 'main' universe?

  100. #500
    World Champion lotjx's Avatar
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    They have to be in the Kelvin timeline where running into the Mirrorverse now makes sense.

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