But youth comps are hardly indicative of senior development. Australia do pretty well at youth level because the focus on being a meathead translates well at that level. If England are in the same boat, battering other youth teams purely because of physical presence, isn't that the exact problem you are trying to avoid?
A lot of the trouble is probably more down to the attitudes. They get hyped believe all the good press get paid shitloads and then just don't give a fuck because they think it's just gonna be so easy for them.
Joe Cole was hyped up and we heard he was going to be one of the greatest talents we had ever produced. Jermaine Pennant was going to be a world beater when he broke into the notts county team at 15. David Bentley was labelled the new Bergkamp. Man utd had some youngster called John Curtis who was gonna be a future international. Neil Mellor at liverpool was another one and he was supposedly going to follow the footsteps of Fowler and Owen.
The talent is there a lot of it is down to attitude of people in this country who just expect everything to just e handed to them and not having to work for it.
But is the talent really there? Do you really have people with the technical ability to play at the same level as Spain, Brazil or Argentina... hell, even Germany?
despite all this talk of talent pool and a crisis. if rob green doesn't let that shot in against america then we qualify from the group as winners. probably after winning all 3 games because the Alrgeria game is a result of the nerves and pressure from drawing the first match. we'd have beaten ghana and uruguay and ended up in the Semis after building some momentum. individual errors are more costly than people think imo. win as a team lose as a team isn't really true.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWShjpiX8lc&"]YouTube- Roy keane on England world cup exit[/ame]
Roy Keane on the England team.
He makes some very good points.
Roy the boss is mental. I love him.
He makes a great point about these 'sources' and how the players have chums in the media.
It's when he runs through the whole team at the end. He really is a funny bastard.
That was absolutely spot on, and it's why I thought we'd do badly before the World Cup started. Every one of our 'big players' struggling for form and or fitness.
I'd like him to have gone on a bit more about the player's chums in the media. It's pretty obvious the players are going to use the media to stick the knife into Capello and make him take the fall for the World Cup performances.
We've never had people with the same technical abilities as the teams you've mentioned but then neither have a lot of other countries.Originally Posted by Grimario
The press can go on and on like the bird that babbled on in a philosophical vein in the galoshes of fortune about how we have all thse world class players. The truth is in my life-time we have only had one truly world-class player Bryan Robson.
Did anyone see the picture of 9 England players sat around DRINKING after the Germany match?
Aaron Lennon was smoking a CIGAR.
STRING THEM UP!!!!!!!!!
Why, what are they supposed to do? whip themselves into a frenzy like some medieval monks?
As is often the case, I don't know what the fuck you are wittering on about, sorry.
Am I the only one who is in on this Gerrard knocking up another bird rumour that sent JT off the deep end in the World Cup? I thought it would be doing the rounds on here...
Get your grill all up in the official football thread you clart.
Mu'ha;fuh;ha.
Found it.
Ace story.
Cuncha posted about it earlier today.
Well, there you go.
That is because you're an idiot.
I saw the picture, wasn't there just one bottle of beer on the table?
And knowing that Lennon is a wannabe gangsta, it was probably one of those fake cigarettes that you blow talcum power out of.
What's the point in castigating them for having a drink?
Yeah when I said "STRING THEM UP!!!" I was being sarcastic.
I thought that would be obvious to anyone with a modicum of sense.
Oh, wait...
Yes, because sarcasm is easy to detect from keystrokes. Putting something in upper case isn't indicating that you're being sarcastic you spakker
To be fair I reckon the majority on here wouldve got that
It was pretty obvious he wasn't suggesting they should acually be strung up.
No, it wasn't alf, you bean-bag.
yeah, actually, it was pretty obvious.
It was as obvious as The Princess and the pea. We all knew she was going to marry the prince in the end just like we all knew Red Dog was being sarcastic.
What's with the name changing mate?
Cheers mate
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/...-rons-verdict/
Big Ron saying what everyone else down every pub across the land has been saying.
If you genuinely think that I think Aaron Lennon should be "strung up" (ie: hung) for smoking a cigar then you are a bigger spastic than I first feared.
Do you have downs syndrome?
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obixCOVTVwY&"]YouTube- John Sitton sacks player and offers out two more[/ame]
This is the team talk England needed...
"And bring your fucking dinner..."
That video highlights one of the main issues in the English game.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...10/8814195.stm
Fifa 2010 World Cup standings:
1 Spain, 2 Netherlands, 3 Germany, 4 Uruguay, 5 Argentina, 6 Brazil, 7 Ghana, 8 Paraguay
9 Japan, 10 Chile, 11 Portugal, 12 United States, 13 England, 14 Mexico, 15 South Korea, 16 Slovakia
17 Ivory Coast, 18 Slovenia, 19 Switzerland, 20 South Africa, 21 Australia, 22 New Zealand, 23 Serbia, 24 Denmark
25 Greece, 26 Italy, 27 Nigeria, 28 Algeria, 29 France, 30 Honduras, 31 Cameroon, 32 North Korea
England's past World Cup rankings:
1950 (8th), 1954 (6th), 1958 (11th), 1962 (8th), 1966 (1st), 1970 (8th), 1982 (6th), 1986 (8th), 1990 (4th), 1998 (9th), 2002 (6th), 2006 (7th)
Basically, its the worst ever.
Apart from the years we didnt qualify.
The Capello index appaz:
Robert Green 51.67
David James 59.28
Glen Johnson 57.18
John Terry 60.48
Ledley King 57.50
Jamie Carragher 59.04
Matthew Upson 60.21
Ashley Cole 59.58
Aaron Lennon 57.64
Frank Lampard 58.58
Steven Gerrard 60.98
James Milner 59.40
Gareth Barry 57.50
Shaun Wright-Phillips 61.09
Joe Cole 55.45
Wayne Rooney 58.87
Emile Heskey 60.15
Jermain Defoe 62.47
It appeared online for 2 hours or something, then got pulled.
So Shaun Wright-Phillips is our best player?
And Simon can't read numbers.
Probably Defoe, mate.
MERRRRRRRRR
Last edited by Simon; July 19th, 2010 at 8:38 AM.
I dont think the defoe number is correct, because i watched it on SSN, and SWP was rated as the best player.
It is all bullshit though, and people are suggesting Capello has rated the players with these marks. He hasn't. He just came up with a way of marking players using a different set of parameters etc, and these are the results using those guides. He hasn't just said "Uhh Cole...55 and give him a .45 too".
YES. And no-one is pointing this out in the media. It's fucking retarded, they were reading out E-mails on SSN the other day that said stuff like 'WHY DOESN'T HE RANK HIMSELF SEEN AS HE HAD SUCH A DREADFUL WORLD CUP! I'D GIVE HIM A 0!!!' and 'CAPELLO IS A JOKE GET HIM OUT AND GET SOMEONE WITH A BIT OF PASSION IN LIKE ARRY REDKNAPP!!!'. When the simple facts are the 'Capello Index' is basically no different to the Actim Index with Fabio's name stuck on it.
I see that dickhead Barton has opened his mouth and weighed in about the WC, he said he can rescue England and is the man for midfield now.
I nearly spat my cup of tea at work out this aftenoon.
YES! Thats exactly what England need, another average hard working limited midfielder.
I totally forgot that Barton existed whilst Newcastle were in the Championship.
"For me, first and foremost, I want to do well for Newcastle United, but watching some of the performances in the World Cup over the summer I think, that on form, I'm as good as anybody in this country," Barton, 27, said.
"I don't say that lightly, and I have to go out and prove that, but surely every midfielder in this country should be thinking like that. They should be looking at it and saying 'that's where I want to be and that's where I can go'"
There's nothing at all wrong with what he has said. The guy is 27, and has played for England before. There's no reason why he shouldn't be setting himself them targets. He's clearly been asked about England, and responded.
Is he good enough? Probably not. But any ambitious and confident person would have the belief that they are good enough.
I hope they ask Danny Mills the same question then.
Fucking hell, Shearer in good point shocker:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/9213404.stm
I know he is stating the obvious but at least the majority of the media seem to now realise that the problem is serious and goes deeper than the manager.
The new national football centre is a good start and hopefully this is the first step in producing some proper footballers who can control and pass the ball. I still think it will be a bleak decade for us however, perhaps not as bad as the seventies but we certainly won't qualify for everything.
I think the national football centre is a massive waste of money. Any youngster over 7 years old gets snapped up by a club and goes to play at an Academy with fantastic facilities anyway. We had Lilleshall for years.
Little bit simplistic no? I mean do you trust Brian Laws and Fat Sam to get the best out of your local area? Billy Davies for example regularly brings in his brother, unqualified is being kind, to run the academy.
There's nothing wrong with the FA saying hey lads lets actually try and control our own destiny for once. Instead of needing results and wanting 10 lads who can run very fast they can say we need some technical wizards.
My questions being : Will they basically trawl the area Derby and Forest search in? How will they be compensated for training the players? Can they bring in players from clubs academies? It would make sense for a fortnightly session with local internationals at youth level.
Do you not think that there's maybe a difference between what the clubs need or want at premiership level (and sure 12-14 of the teams each year wont have european football so premiership would be their only focus) and what is needed internationally. I mean the squad England had there at the world cup had been succesfull in the premiership as a group right? So was the failure down to tactics? Injuries or were players missing? Maybe the players or type of players that were missing are harder to find and harder to train and therefore clubs don't mind buying them in.
I honestly think some clubs and academies would like 3/4 of the same player the whole way through. Pacey strikers/ tall cbs whatever. If you have 3/4 of them they are more likely to get one through the end of the process. Maybe it's not easy to find a playmaker?
England suffer from a lack of technical ability and also what Arsenal seem to lack at the moment - a severe lack of bollocks.
BOLLOCKS is one of the things the ENGLISH LIONS have going for them. Having some nerve or grit means fuck all when you're spending 90 minutes chasing shadows
I don't think we lack technical ability what we lack is intelligence we always do the same we pass it around the defenders and midfielders sideways for ages , because we think thats how good teams play football before we hoof it up anyway. Then when there's no movement into space up the pitch , we just stand there and point.
People think showing for and wanting the ball means. I'll take it and have a stupid shot or hollywood ball. Showing for the ball doesn't necessarily mean grabbing the game by the scruff of the neck and forcing the play, it can just as easily mean retaining possesion and doing the simple things.
I don't think English football is on it's last legs. I do think they need to change their setup a bit but the players are probably there, even now.
I couldn't tell you the last time England showed some bollocks.
I have mixed feelings about England's problems. I think there's a danger of setting Spain as a benchmark because in reality, their World Cup success wasn't down to a national centre or a change in philosophy. It was purely down to Barca's success, I really believe that. What was it, six Barca players started the final? Spain have adopted their system and their national team are reaping the rewards of the success of Barca's team and academy.
France have shown over the last few years that having an excellent national centre doesn't necessarily equate to success or even consistency. They have some technically outstanding players like Nasri, Gourcuff, Ribery etc that many people would probably see as the answer to England's problems when it's not always necessarily the case.
Germany had an outstanding World Cup with players that are distinctly average at club level. Mertesacker, Klose and Podolski all had average seasons and their player of the tournament Mueller has been poor this season and is usually on the bench.
I think England do need technically better players but there also seems to be a mentality problem. We don't seem to know how to approach tournaments anymore.
Last edited by Andy; November 22nd, 2010 at 6:28 AM.
We do that because that sort of passing and moving isn't second nature to our players like it is to players abroad. We raise players to get the ball forward quickly.
I remember going to Wembley for Capello's first game (against the Swiss). Our players were trying to play this patient passing game when you could see that they just wanted to get an early cross in or a long ball played in to the striker. We seem to have decided that the way to play International football is to be patient and to retain possession but our players aren't good enough to keep the ball too long and don't find that style of play to come natural to them so we end up playing seven or eight passes and then Steven Gerrard hoofs it 60 yards forward and gives up possession.
If kids were taught how to control and pass a ball and if our players weren't pigeon-holed into positions at such a young age then they'd be much more comfortable in possession and in different areas of the pitch.
In terms of comparing the national side to a club side. I can't see past Liverpool as the current state. Competent players but often a team lacking imagination who try and force the play through 2 players.
I still think England with this group of players should be challenging. Still in the top 6-8 teams in the world. Centre backs are going to need replacing soon though.
England are stuck between wanting to play a style which suits them but which is unlikely to be successful at International level, and playing a style which they know that they should be playing but lack the ability to do so. The 'Golden Generation' probably should have just stuck to their natural game rather than try to change but long-term I still think we need to change the way that we teach kids how to play the game.
The trouble is that kids love to play matches and adults love to watch their kids playing matches. It's ingrained into the English approach to football and how much we love the game.
Is there not a fear that you'll have a misplaced generation whose approach isn't right for the english league with those clubs finding the fast paced players as usual and filling any shortage with players from abroad?
Clubs will do what is best for Clubs. If every Premier League side had half a dozen English players who were technically proficient I'm sure that they'd use them but if some of our players ended up playing over in Spain, Germany and Italy then maybe that wouldn't be a bad thing.
As disenchanted with the national team as many people are now, and as much as a lot of people would genuinely prefer their club to be successful rather than England, a strong performance by the national side in a major tournament would so wonders for the game and it would be the Clubs who would reap a lot of those rewards.
Do you not think it's glaring that Hoddle seemingly believes so much in these young lads that are being dropped despite being techinically excellent? I mean if they are proficient then why are they falling by the wayside, because there are cheaper more developed players available on the continent.
Definitely. I think that the clubs owe a lot to Euro 96 happening in England for the explosion in popularity of domestic football and the willingness of big name foreign players to play there. Not the formation of the Premier League, as Sky would like to think. Casual fans are drawn in much, much more by national team success than anything on the club scene and has more to do with getting young kids to play the game in my opinion.
I dont know what the situation is like in Spain, Italy etc but it is ludicrous how much power the clubs have with regard to withdrawing players from squads.
Newcastle wanted to withdraw Carroll. Its the guy's debut, the alleged pinnacle of his career.
I remember a fair few England games at the old Wembley under Graham Taylor where crowds only just got into the 30Ks, even for qualifiers. It's actually pretty incredible that Wembley sold out last week against France. No other nation on Earth gets that sort of support. But contrast that to 1990 when England's support in Italy was amongst the lowest in the tournament (around 4,000 in total I think I've read). There's been a massive turnaround and a lot of that was down to two 'glorious defeats' in 1990 and 1996. An English World Cup victory would be almost unimaginable.
Attendances were low across the country in the late 80's and early 90's though. Not helped by Heysel and Hillsborough.
Last edited by Beefy; November 22nd, 2010 at 7:18 AM. Reason: I think that's a better way or putting it.
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHH
Hillsborough was definitely a turning point and one that I was going to bring up myself. As much as the switch to all-seater stadia has negatively impacted atmospheres, they've helped to keep attendences up and Hillsborough was a line in the sand in terms of a certain way of supporting your team. I think the make-up of supporters at matches today might have been very different had that not happened.
And also in the late 80's, travelling to watch England you would have been treated like absolute dirt by the Police and the locals, especially after the unfortunate incidents of Heysel where Liverpool fans may or may not have killed 39 Italians.
Ahaha
http://www.people.co.uk/sport/column...2039-22727803/
Lets get Nigel Clough in lads.
10 years at Burton Albion and then has got Derby into the play off positions in November.
It's obvious.
And your suggestion using the boundaries the people have given there would be?
10 years at Burton Albion, laying the foundations for a succesful football league club.
If it was ANY manager who had spent 10 years in the conference and 2 shit to average seasons in the Championship that didnt have a famous Dad they would be laughed out of town.
Beckham the next England manager then....
I would like that to be fair. H eseems a likable bloke who has the respect of the players and no experience didnt do Klinsmann any harm.
'Arry then Becks is what I read
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news...cle664999.html
What a bunch of gay. I hope you do hire him just for the media to turn on him eventually.
England move above Brazil to fourth in Fifa rankings
England have moved above Brazil to fourth in the Fifa world rankings, despite their recent run of poor form.
Fabio Capello's England side only reached the last 16 of last summer's World Cup and have not won their last two qualifying matches for Euro 2012.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/13957893.stm
Those rankings are an utter joke, above Brazil ffs!!
Points-wise we're prety level with what we were. Brazil have dropped quite a lot of points. I'm guessing England are benefiting from the worst of the Steve McClaren era no longer counting. The rankings are based on a four year period and four years ago McClaren recalled Beckham which is when results improved.
So, who will be the next England manager then?
Brooking and various other have said that they want an Englishman. I don't think it will be Redknapp due to his health issues, his financial issues and the fact that he may well just stay at Spurs anyway.
So who does that leave? Big Sam? Pardew? Curbs? I think I am going to stick a tenner on Pearce to get it.
Pearce seems fairly certain that he doesn't want the job at this stage. I reckon he thinks he can get it in a few years and some of his U21 graduates will be more experienced.
He did an interview on the Monday Night Club where he said that he didn't feel he was experienced enough at the moment.
Who then Alex? who?
I wouldn't want an English manager. They don't tend to be very good.
Redknapp will get the job if he wants it. I think the FA will regret saying they wanted an englishman though if Redknapp does decide to stay at Spurs as we'd be then left with a choice of Hodgson , Pulis , Bruce or Allardyce.
Hiddink might be worth an outside bet as the FA could say he at least speaks English and knows about the english game after his time with Chelsea. Mark Hughes could be another possible outsider who stands a chance.
Pulis is Welsh. As far as English managers go I have no suggestions.
I think the FA will be considering Hodgson because of his experience but the fans wouldn't give him a chance and there are question marks around how he'd cope. I can't see it being Redknapp now. Allardyce is trying to reinvent himself and prove he doesn't always set teams up to play ling ball (not that his Bolton side always did). So perhaps him.
We have too many good young footballers to hand them over to Roy. Pearce is the man to bring the young guns through.
Are you kidding? Did you see how we did at the last u21 championships. So many young talented players yet somehow he managed to pick the worst players in a horrifically defensive set up...and we were crap. His idea of a prospect is premiership reserve rather than someone who is playing well in the football league
I hate this spiral we seem to find ourselves in. Sven left after failing (apparently) WE NEED AN ENGLISHMAN! The Englishman is crap, WE NEED ANOTHER BIG NAME. Capello leaves and now we clamber for an Englishman. I don't have any prerequisite. Just the right man for the job, speaking English is probably a good bet, that seemed to be a stupid stumbling block which could have been avoided.
Jack Charlton.
Exactly, my point is that there are no suitable english candidates. We should get Hiddink or someone.
I would mark out for Jack Charlton.
This
Holloway.
Wade Barrett
It can't be an Englishman. They're all shit.
I'm pretty sure Trevor Brooking has said they want an Englishman, not that it definitively will be one.
His tactics in the summer were dreadfully defensive and ignoring wingers entirely was a mistake. To say that he ignores the Football League is plainly untrue though.
Off the top of my head FL players such as Leroy Lita, Dave Nugent, Michael Mancienne, Scott Loach, Frank Fielding, Martin Cranie, Adam Johnson and many others have all been integral to Pearce's sides. That doesn't seem like many but if you think that players like Milner, S Taylor, Agbonlahor, Walcott, Huddlestone, Baines are the players keeping the Football league representatives out then it is obvious why.
The two glaring exceptions I can think of in the last couple of years are Joe Bennett at Boro currently and Scott Sinclair at the start of last season.
I'm going to be in Sweden when England v Sweden is on. That is going to be a bit bizarre.
ps Don't fucking slag Pearce off.
Pearce was an absolute fucktard in that competition though.
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