A thread about the English national football team.

[MMH]

Hang on, you can't have it both ways with the lucky accusation - France are out because England put them out! And from what I understand Spain were one of the favourites, and we beat them too.

You obviously know a lot more than me but I watched the France game and I certainly don't think England were particularly lucky, it was a close-fought game with few chances and England were good enough to get the goal to nick it. I saw most of the Spain game too and it seemed like England had a gameplan which worked perfectly, allowing Spain to have the ball but restricting space near goal, I don't remember too many chances for Spain in that one either.

I love Steph Houghton, she just seems to be miles better than everyone else on the pitch.

Also, has anyone noticed the pitch looks absolutely huge because the women are mostly really small

Spain were in no way one of the favourites! They are a half decent side and thats it. Same with when there was loads of buzz about Toni Duggan going to Barcelona. Barcelona are a very average side in womens football but people just assume that mens and womens sides are at similar levels.

I didnt say they were lucky by the way. England are a good side these days, solid at the back with an effective strike force. By saying the cards have fell their way I mean they got put in a very easy group (Scotland and Portugal probably being the two weakest sides in the competition) and the two powerhouses of European football (Germany and France) are going through a period of transition so the timing is perfect for them to capitalize on it. I think they will do it as well.

Mark Samson has done a great job with this team, he has got rid of some of the players who have been around for ages and took a chance on younger players or girls who have not been given a chance (Taylor for example is a very late developer). Shame he is a bit of a tit....

Yeah the pitch and especially the goals have always been an issue for me. People always mock women's goalies but they always forget that they are playing in full size goals yet are a foot, sometimes a foot and a half smaller than their male counterparts. It makes a massive difference. A couple of inches trimmed off here and there would improve the game for me.

[Simon]

Fair enough on the Spain thing I had read they were third favourites.

TBF with regard to the shit goalies, I've never noticed it being an issue of them no being big enough for the goals, it was usually really basic stuff like dropping catches and letting weak shots slip past them. The standard of goalkeeping seems to be much higher in recent years though, so maybe that's an outdated criticism. The standard in general seems a lot higher actually - in fact you might have a more knowledgeable answer to a question I asked my mates the other day: do you think that given the same standard of training a woman could hack it in the men's game? The argument against it is usually that the lack of strength makes it impossible, but I struggle to believe that for example someone like Steph Houghton is weaker than someone like Sterling or Mahrez, she's taller and wider than either of them. I know that they're different positions but it is interesting to me to consider that a really elite women's player could theoretically be good enough to make it at a high level in the men's game. Pure hypothetical though obviously as it will never happen.

[MMH]

Fair enough on the Spain thing I had read they were third favourites.

TBF with regard to the shit goalies, I've never noticed it being an issue of them no being big enough for the goals, it was usually really basic stuff like dropping catches and letting weak shots slip past them. The standard of goalkeeping seems to be much higher in recent years though, so maybe that's an outdated criticism. The standard in general seems a lot higher actually - in fact you might have a more knowledgeable answer to a question I asked my mates the other day: do you think that given the same standard of training a woman could hack it in the men's game? The argument against it is usually that the lack of strength makes it impossible, but I struggle to believe that for example someone like Steph Houghton is weaker than someone like Sterling or Mahrez, she's taller and wider than either of them. I know that they're different positions but it is interesting to me to consider that a really elite women's player could theoretically be good enough to make it at a high level in the men's game. Pure hypothetical though obviously as it will never happen.

Nah they were second seeds in the group. England were easily the best team in that group. Spain only really have Parades and Hermoso who could be classed as top end players. It would be the equivalent of England drawing Switzerland or someone in the men's game. Tricky certainly but nothing to be overly worried about.

The issue with height and the goal frames is that some of the girls wont push the ball over the bar and will try and catch it for example as they dont have the clearance (Is that the right word?) to get enough on the ball. Stuff like that. I actually like the fact that a goal can come from anywhere too.

As for your question, technique wise yeah deffo. I know in Germany (and maybe France) football is mixed gender until around 15-16 which is why those nations do well as they have to fight more and get a bit of strength in them. There still is a massive difference in power between a man and a woman obviously though so it would never happen. The difference in pace will always be an issue, you can tell that just from watching top level women's games compared to men's but talent wise, some have tremendous talent.

It does make me laugh when some misogynist fatties say they could get a bunch of the lads together that could beat the women’s teams etc. They couldn’t because they would be fucked after 5 minutes and would pass rings around them

[Simon]

A lot of people just don't realise how good you have to be to reach the peak of your profession, even in a physically limited and (relative to men's football) less popular sport like women's football, the country's best players are still going to be brilliant.

Even without taking fitness into account, the technical aspect makes it laughable that any amateurs think they could compete...I've been lucky enough to play against and with players at either end of the men's game, young kids in the youth teams at professional clubs and ex-pros who had long careers in the game, and any ideas you have about you being too strong for the kids or too quick for the veterans are put to bed the moment you see them take a ball down. You can be as quick or as strong as you like, but if they've controlled and moved the ball on in the time it takes you to even read the play, you've got no chance.

[MMH]

A lot of people just don't realise how good you have to be to reach the peak of your profession, even in a physically limited and (relative to men's football) less popular sport like women's football, the country's best players are still going to be brilliant.

Even without taking fitness into account, the technical aspect makes it laughable that any amateurs think they could compete...I've been lucky enough to play against and with players at either end of the men's game, young kids in the youth teams at professional clubs and ex-pros who had long careers in the game, and any ideas you have about you being too strong for the kids or too quick for the veterans are put to bed the moment you see them take a ball down. You can be as quick or as strong as you like, but if they've controlled and moved the ball on in the time it takes you to even read the play, you've got no chance.

Yeah the gap is huge. Someone I know is mates with Kenny Irons, Dunno if you remember him, played for Tranmere, Huddersfield etc, decent player, hardly Pele or anyone either. Had a kick around with him in the back garden once and all we were doing was passing the ball about, side footed stuff in a small space. He said he didnt play like this as a pro and I asked him to show me what he meant and he just played what looked like a simple side footed pass to me that almost broke my ankle. The power he could generate from just tapping the ball was ridiculous.

I have been arguing with loads of people about womens football lately for obvious reasons, the main one was that womens football is "boring". My answer to that was well it would be if you didnt know any of the players, their stories etc, which players and teams to look out for etc. Football always works better with a vested interest in the game you are watching. Otherwise its like sitting down to watch a game from the Hungarian League and expecting to be entertained. Without knowing anything it can be hard unless its a stupidly good game.

These Euros have been full of great stories that a lot of people could not grasp because they dont know the history and all that. I follow a bunch of the players on social media etc and have watched them for years so it genuinely feels boss when one of the ones I like scores or does well. Its a pure form of sport and its fucking great.

[RFF Champ]

The Austrian keeper is excellent.

[MMH]

Yeah she's one of my favourites. Really came on last season (technically she is Bayerns back up goalie but should be the starter next season)

This Match has been a war. Bodies everywhere.

[RFF Champ]

The referee giving a dropped ball instead of a corner at the end was well dodgy. Denmark should've scored from the preceding two corners as well.

[MMH]

This ref always seems to do weird things like that. She blows up far too often too.

That spin by Nadim just then....

[MMH]

I actually fuming that Everton are playing tonight...

[RFF Champ]

Miedma is a top class striker

Shouuut. He might as well have written the slip out for you.

[JP]

I sweat to God, there is something in the English football psyche which self-sabotages.

[Andy]

England haven't shown up in this game. Passing has been dreadful, all misplaced or underhit.

[JP]

Hoof. Hoof. Hoof. Hoof.

Depressingly familiar.

[Andy]

Standard is definitely up since the last time I watched any women's football. At least there's no two or three love scored every game.

[JP]

Why is Karen Carney not an automatic starter?

Or on now we need some magic?

[JP]

Pressure does strange things to people. The decision making has been school level.

[JP]

Mark Sampson has flattered to deceive for a while now.

Didn't take WSL top scorer and has favourites he plays over those who demonstrably have more talent. Why oh why, with the talent in the England midfield and full backs, would you decide launching it time after time towards to two markedly taller Centre Backs the best possible plan? And then the inability to see the obvious, that it wasn't working. They played badly, but the shots taken in panic and decisions made wrongly were brought on thanks to that homage to shitty lower league tactics from the 1980's.

[MMH]

Shouuut. He might as well have written the slip out for you.

Ha just as well you told me the odds! Just wish I chucked a bit more on now.

Im gutted she left Bayern (The team I "Support", there are reasons for this, mainly coz the German league is so accessible) especially to join Arsenal which just felt like a really weird move for her. She will score millions in the WSL.

[wardy]

At least there's no two or three love scored every game.

No need to be sexist.

[wardy]

A lot of people just don't realise how good you have to be to reach the peak of your profession, even in a physically limited and (relative to men's football) less popular sport like women's football, the country's best players are still going to be brilliant.

Even without taking fitness into account, the technical aspect makes it laughable that any amateurs think they could compete...I've been lucky enough to play against and with players at either end of the men's game, young kids in the youth teams at professional clubs and ex-pros who had long careers in the game, and any ideas you have about you being too strong for the kids or too quick for the veterans are put to bed the moment you see them take a ball down. You can be as quick or as strong as you like, but if they've controlled and moved the ball on in the time it takes you to even read the play, you've got no chance.

Wasn't there a game a few years ago where a random amateur English side absolutely horsed one of the best Brazilian women sides?

[Andy]

Haha woops meant lobs

[Murphy]

Weird night for a qualifier, but I'll tune in to see the game tonight. The first half against Malta almost put me into a coma, but I expect better tonight with it being at Wembley. Slovakia will be a significantly sterner test though. Based off that Malta game, this could go badly. A defeat would take Slovakia top and I wouldn't be shocked if it happened.

The return game was Allardyce's only game, IIRC, and wasn't it a late winner against 10 men?

[Simon]

As bad as the first half was, at what point do we start recognising that, bar a couple of teams, the days of absolutely murdering international minnows are over? Using Malta as an example, they've only lost by a bigger margin than 4-0 three times in the last eight years. The likes of San Marino and Gibraltar are still good for racking up six or more against, but the teams on the next level up - Malta, Liechtenstein, even Luxembourg who somehow got a 0-0 away to France yesterday - who used to be awful are now generally organised enough to keep the score down.

Don't get me wrong, England were shit bar the last ten minutes or so, but it isn't easy to break down well-organised teams that have literally no interest in attacking whatsoever. Slovakia will be a more difficult game of course, but England shouldn't (!!!) look as sterile and slow in possession because they'll have more space to play with Slovakia offering more going forward.

[Murphy]

So basically what you're saying is, we're in for a good game?

[Simon]

I didn't say that haha

[Chris]

Oh dear.

[Beefy]

What a win

[wardy]

Thank fuck for that.

[wardy]

I was honestly due to call you for all the English bastards under the sun.

[wardy]

Thank you.

[Simon]

Standard "just realised England are playing tonight" post.

[Murphy]

Ha. I'm trying over here, I really am. I've known about this game since Sunday.

Only because I look ahead to see what games are on so my wife knows what night she can watch the Bake Off.

True story.

[Simon]

I've got training tonight and I'm almost glad I'm missing the game. If I'm back late enough I'll just watch whatever passes for the highlights.

[RuneEdge]

Which will probably be a gif of the manager's reaction during the game.

[Simon]

It's so annoying because it should be something approaching an exciting team now - Kane/Rashford/Sterling up front is a nice mix, plus all three are young but with plenty of experience, the midfield should be solid enough and the defence is fine. But it will still be the same stolid, boring, slow rubbish that we see every time. The only thing I'm excited about is Winks getting a game - he is absolute class and, while I understand people criticising his call-up given how little he's played, they won't be complaining for long. He'll be a squad regular for years now, and is exactly the sort of midfielder we need. He's basically the same as Wilshere, minus a touch of creativity but with the additional quality of actually being able to get on the pitch every once in a while.

[JP]

It's a reason to go to the pub, so I'm happy.

[Peter Griffin]

That Rashford effort was like me cocking up a chip shot on FIFA

[The Rosk]

Do you play Xbox Peter?

[Peter Griffin]

Nah #PS4FORLIFE bro.

[The Rosk]

Why don't you join Rajah Town?

[Peter Griffin]

Why cheer on idiots that enter the pitch? Seen it at PP before, Pathetic.

[Peter Griffin]

Why don't you join Rajah Town?

Probably because I am utter shite

[Peter Griffin]

Also probably not getting the new one this year which I assume most people here will be or have.

[The Rosk]

We're on both.

[JP]

We won. Yay?

[Badger]

Ta for putting away Slovenia.

[Torn]

Interesting comments from Southgate about picking young players, and dropping Smalling because he wants to play out from the back.. sounds like Tarkowski would have been a good call up under these conditions, especially if you want to play 3 centre halves and we aren't blessed with talent there. Despite not exactly being his biggest fan anymore after how he refused to play for Brentford an hour before we played Burnley to force a move he is a brilliant player, having a great season and a good footballing centre half who is perfect for building from the back.

[StevieV]

England showing their strength in depth for the big friendlies.

[Simon]

Jack Cork and Jake Livermore mate. Fuck sake.

[StevieV]

Did anyone watch it? I am genuinely interested to know if the forum is now at zero interest with English football.

Also are there people about now who cared like we did between 1996-2010 ? (I may be misrepresenting others here but my interest either side of those dates tapers as I was just a little too young for 1990 and started to wane incrementally after 2010)

[JP]

Yeah, watched it at the pub.

Was really quite promising.

[Fanny]

out in the quarters on pens then

[MikeHunt]

4 MORE YEARS OF HURT

[Fanny]

GOOOOOOLDEN GENERATION WHY CAN'T OUR PREM PLAYERS COME UP WITH THE GOODS IN THE NATIONAL TEAM OH NO DON'T BE SILLY THERE'S NO CORRELATION BETWEEN OUR LAST MOST SUCCESSFUL TOURNAMENT IN 1990 AND THE FORMATION AND EXPLOSION OF THE PREMIERSHIP WE'RE SHIT BUT WE'RE GREAT THIS MANAGER DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S DOING WE NEED TO GET TO AT LEAST THE QUARTERS THEN MAYBE THE SEMIS 1966 ENGURLUND THERE'S ONLY A MINORITY OF TRAVELLING THUG SUPPORTERS THREE LIONS ON A SHIIIIIIIIRT

oh we're out

[The Rosk]

Did anyone watch it? I am genuinely interested to know if the forum is now at zero interest with English football.

Also are there people about now who cared like we did between 1996-2010 ? (I may be misrepresenting others here but my interest either side of those dates tapers as I was just a little too young for 1990 and started to wane incrementally after 2010)

I’ve given up hope ever since I realised that these cunts don’t really give a shit about playing for England like I once romanticised they did in my head.

[Fanny]

come join the Tartan Army Ross

[Simon]

I thought that was actually half-decent from England the other night. The most you can really ask for from a friendly is that a new player comes in and shows he's good enough, and I think both Pickford and Loftus-Cheek did that. No surprises with Pickford obviously, but I didn't expect RLC to be anywhere near as good as he was. Gomez didn't quite look ready (not particularly convinced by him whenever I've seen him tbh), Abraham did ok but was up against a tough defence and Cork didn't have enough time to do much of anything. But I thought it was a decent display and it has added a couple of players to the pool that could potentially do well for England in the future.

[Simon]

We haven't done one of these for a while, what would your squad and starting eleven be if the World Cup was coming up now?

Goalkeepers: Pickford, Hart, Butland

Defenders: Rose, Bertrand, Walker, Clyne, Stones, Cahill, Maguire, Lascelles

Midfielders: Dier, Winks, Henderson, Delph, Alli, Lallana, Welbeck, Sterling

Strikers: Kane, Sturridge, Vardy, Rashford

Pickford

Walker - Cahill - Stones - Rose

Dier - Winks

Sterling - Lallana - Rashford

Kane

[Murphy]

Italia '90 got me hooked in the first place. I think it started to change around about 2000. I still cared somewhat up to and including 2010.

This Tuesday, instead of England/Brazil, I'll watch Ireland/Denmark. It means something and there will at least be an atmosphere to it.

[MikeHunt]

Jules Rimet still gleaming!!!!

[Simon]

Twenty years since Scotland qualified for a World Cup

[MikeHunt]

Never stopped me dreaming!

[JP]

If the World Cup was coming round the corner, I'd have Crouch in the squad.

Scoring lots with limited minutes, and added comedy value.

[RuneEdge]

Plus "The Robot" was better than the dab.

[Torn]

Did anyone watch it? I am genuinely interested to know if the forum is now at zero interest with English football.

Also are there people about now who cared like we did between 1996-2010 ? (I may be misrepresenting others here but my interest either side of those dates tapers as I was just a little too young for 1990 and started to wane incrementally after 2010)

Italia '90 got me hooked in the first place. I think it started to change around about 2000. I still cared somewhat up to and including 2010.

This Tuesday, instead of England/Brazil, I'll watch Ireland/Denmark. It means something and there will at least be an atmosphere to it.

These are meaningless friendlies with most of our best players not playing. I don't give a shit about my club team's B team friendlies either. I thought this 'anyone care?' stuff had basically became a joke to be honest.

I will watch Denmark vs Ireland too because it's a competitive game and Andreas Bjelland. However watching the dour shite Ireland serve up might actually make you thankful for the Southgate's boring shite, and also thankful that we actually qualified unlike Italy!

[RFF Champ]

A Brentford defender getting in his national team ahead of a starting Chelsea defender is great.

[Torn]

Tarkowski, Forshaw and Bidwell from Brentford in and around the squad by 2018

1/3 isn't bad

[Simon]

Looking forward to seeing Cook, looks like the sort of midfielder we need.

[RFF Champ]

1/3 isn't bad

If you'd waited a couple of months you could've shouted Mawson too.

[Torn]

That would have been very bold!

Mepham the next off our CB production line has been called up for Wales, you were born in Hammersmith mate come on you would make the England squad too soon. Interestingly it seems like Mawson getting away (we have got a decent amount of money from him after his moves I believe atleast) that led to restructuring the B team so players like Mepham had a route into the first team and it's definitely worked.

Despite being a jug eared knob I've always loved Tarky's ability as a player so pretty pleased to see him progress to this level. Also gives us a million quid if he gets on the pitch so that helps.