Champions League Thread

We do play in a shite league but that doesn't automatically mean we're going to be shit in the Champions League like a load of ignorant bastards seem to think. Celtic are a decent team and we'll prove it by giving a good account of ourselves this year.

Obviously since it is a shit league, you don't get many England internationals coming up here. The only one I can think of in recent years is Joey Barton, and he was bollocks before pissing off back down South to become a Premier League regular again.

I don't think you'll be shit in the CL, you've shown often enough that you punch above your weight. However I don't think anyone can really complain that SPL players don't get a look in for major (!!!!!) international sides when there are others playing at a higher level every week.

When was the last time you watched a Scottish league game Simon?

Folk underestimate the Scottish league.

It's not the EPL, Spanish, German, French or Italian - but its no worse than the majority of other European top flights. It isn't easy to win here the way a lot of teams set up to stop you playing - and the fact that Celtic are dominating so much at the moment is a result of us getting so much better, not everyone else getting worse.

People like Sinclair can only play against what is put out in front of them, and he's been excellent. They said the same about Wanyama/VVD in recent years and they've gone on to show they can do it in 'top' leagues as well. Fully expect Sinclair/Tierney/Griff/Dembele etc to perform well in the champions league and have English clubs sniffing about now that they've done what they've been doing for over a year against 'proper' opposition.

As wardy says, we beat Milan, Barca, Benfica, Spartak and Man U with fucking lumpers like Caldwell and McManus with the likes of Scott Mcdonald up front. We are much better than that now. I fancy us against anyone at Celtic Park right now.

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Originally Posted by MikeHunt

When was the last time you watched a Scottish league game Simon?

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I don't watch it cos it's shite and doesn't even have the vague sense of competition that there was before Rangers went out of existence. But if Celtic are winning the league by 60 points while doing nothing in the CL it stands to reason that the standard is shit.

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Originally Posted by Slare

Folk underestimate the Scottish league.

It's not the EPL, Spanish, German, French or Italian - but its no worse than the majority of other European top flights. It isn't easy to win here the way a lot of teams set up to stop you playing - and the fact that Celtic are dominating so much at the moment is a result of us getting so much better, not everyone else getting worse.

People like Sinclair can only play against what is put out in front of them, and he's been excellent. They said the same about Wanyama/VVD in recent years and they've gone on to show they can do it in 'top' leagues as well. Fully expect Sinclair/Tierney/Griff/Dembele etc to perform well in the champions league and have English clubs sniffing about now that they've done what they've been doing for over a year against 'proper' opposition.

As wardy says, we beat Milan, Barca, Benfica, Spartak and Man U with fucking lumpers like Caldwell and McManus with the likes of Scott Mcdonald up front. We are much better than that now. I fancy us against anyone at Celtic Park right now.

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If Celtic have improved so much why aren't they doing any better in Europe? I completely accept that good players are up there, Dembele and Tierney in particular look really good. But until they play in a proper league there will be a question mark over them.

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Originally Posted by Simon

I don't watch it cos it's shite and doesn't even have the vague sense of competition that there was before Rangers went out of existence. But if Celtic are winning the league by 60 points while doing nothing in the CL it stands to reason that the standard is shit.

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If you don't watch it then it really is impossible to judge.

I don't watch much of Dulwich Hamlet beyond the videos Clive puts up, should I steer clear of saying they aren't at a good standard too? As a general point what you're saying is true, you should see something before judging it, but I see enough of Celtic in Europe to know that if they're winning the league every year by a million miles, the league must be shit. The fact that the second best team in the country were knocked out in the Europa League qualifiers doesn't exactly disprove my point either. It might annoy you that I'm saying it, but that doesn't mean it isn't obviously true.

Waste of time having this argument anyway as there is never going to be any way of putting it to the test. Has the idea of Celtic trying to join the English system completely died now?

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Originally Posted by Slare

Folk underestimate the Scottish league.

It's not the EPL, Spanish, German, French or Italian - but its no worse than the majority of other European top flights. It isn't easy to win here the way a lot of teams set up to stop you playing - and the fact that Celtic are dominating so much at the moment is a result of us getting so much better, not everyone else getting worse.

People like Sinclair can only play against what is put out in front of them, and he's been excellent. They said the same about Wanyama/VVD in recent years and they've gone on to show they can do it in 'top' leagues as well. Fully expect Sinclair/Tierney/Griff/Dembele etc to perform well in the champions league and have English clubs sniffing about now that they've done what they've been doing for over a year against 'proper' opposition.

As wardy says, we beat Milan, Barca, Benfica, Spartak and Man U with fucking lumpers like Caldwell and McManus with the likes of Scott Mcdonald up front. We are much better than that now. I fancy us against anyone at Celtic Park right now.

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It's far worse than the majority of other top flights. Aberdeen and Rangers were dumped out of Europe by nothing teams. That objectively is the level beyond Celtic in the league. The Portuguese, Dutch, Belgian, Ukrainian and Russian leagues at least have several teams who can give an account of themselves in Europe.

The Scandinavian leagues have weakened in recent years also, so the Scottish league could argue they rival those teams, other than that the Scottish league is not underrated. There is no quality

The Scottish league is absolutely atrocious I dunno why they're trying to dispute that.

Simon, Celtic have only improved since Rogers took over just over a year ago. Give us a fucking minute and we'll show you.

Bloody impatient Ivor over here.

Yeah the Scottish league is absolutely shite. I wish it wasn't but it is.

Sinclair is a good demonstration of this. He's done absolutely fuck all in the PL for years then he moves to Scotland and he's instantly the best player in the country.

My view on why Celtic often overachieve in the CL is that they barely have to get out of first gear to beat the trash they face domestically. They can save their effort for the three games a season they get at home in the CL.

Utter bollocks from Andy for a change. In the last 25 years Rosenborg and Dinamo Zagreb have each won 18 domestic league titles. How many times did they get out of the group stages between them? Celtic won the league 13 times in the same period and qualified for the last 16 on 3 occasions. We've clearly had more of a challenge than they've had domestically, yet we outperform them in Europe.

I have absolutely no idea what Rosenberg's or Zagreb's domestic competition is like. What I do know is that Celtic have no meaningful competition, I don't think that can be disputed.

My point is that Celtic haven't had as easy a time as others have domestically yet we've done better in Europe. These teams don't have a Rangers.

Celtic have managed to get out of the groups 3 times: 06/07, 07/08 and 12/13. Rangers had internally combusted for the last one so maybe your argument holds some water for that season. But they challenged us for the league and done well in Europe themselves (got to the last 16 then the final of the UEFA Cup) in the other 2 seasons. Then you need to add the enormous pressure of competing domestically as part of the old firm. Is that not meaningful competition?

Years ago the excuse for Celtic and Rangers disappointing in Europe (particularly Rangers when they had some very strong teams) was that the quality of the league being so poor meant they couldn't sustain a strong level of performance i.e. couldn't lift themselves for big games.

That was a doin last night. However, PSG were the best team I've ever seen at Celtic Park

What was the defender doing for the penalty? 2-0 down, getting abused and to give away a penalty like that. Criminal.

Got to say though, the crowd was obviously deflated during that first half, but they sure found their voices again in the second.

Look very good though, do PSG. Still hope they never win this though. :yes:

Fuck me

I was at the game last night, PSG were immense. Looked a real force. Loved the atmosphere though, shame Celtic didn't offer a bit more, was hoping it would be one of those legendary nights!

Cavani and Mbappe were class, Rabiot was surprisingly good in the middle and can see Dani Alves being a huge player for them. The thought of them having Draxler sat there on the bench is frightening. Would have killed for him at Everton!

I very much enjoyed Scott Brown trying his usual noncery on the PSG midfielders and being made to look like the dog shit cunt he is over and over again.

Looking forward to tonight, think it will be a good test of where we are in the grand scheme of things; Dortmund are probably at the top end of the level we're (roughly) on at the moment, not one of the elite sides but with tons of quality and more than capable of giving anyone a game. No Alli for us due to him being a dickhead in the CSKA game last year, but Dortmund are missing half their side so it's a good time to play them. Weirdly this feels like a huge game even though it's the first in the group - assuming Madrid are going to win it and Nicosia are going to finish bottom, the two games between us and Dortmund are going to be very important.

No idea what to expect, really. Not seen too much of us yet this year. Was unimpressed with the performance at Newcastle, thought we did well against Chelsea for large parts of the match, just seen highlights or nothing of the other games.

And I know nothing about Dortmund these days. But yeah, I hear they have 9 players out.

Huge game, given what you've said, Si, but also because of how badly we started last year. A decent start this year would be very welcome.

People were shitting their pants at the dropped points early on but it was just a little bit of bad luck really - we've dominated every game we've played so far this season and only uncharacteristically bad decision-making at the end of the Chelsea and Burnley games have left us with 7 points instead of 10. Today is the big test because last year it felt like we had a mental block regarding CL football, but we will be right up there again this season without a doubt.

:eek:

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Originally Posted by Simon

:eek:

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That was a great game.

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Originally Posted by Simon

:eek:

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Is this in relation to Tottenham specifically, or the game as a whole?

How we were 2-1 up at half-time I'll never know. Well, it was mostly down to shit keeping, but Dortmund were very good that first half. Second half I thought we were much better. Excellent start.

Was surprised there were only 67,000 odd there though.

Nice to see the BBC Sport starting a "Harry Kane must leave to win the Ballon D'Or" narrative already :D

Yeah, saw that. To be honest, I do expect him to leave at some point. When will depend on how Spurs do, I feel. Say for example Spurs failed to qualify for the CL next season, and a Real or Barca came in, he could go that soon.

I mean, he's 24. That isn't that young, really.

Unless we go to shit I'm not worried about Kane leaving. Unlike the rest of our best players he has ties to the club going back to his childhood and he is very vocal about not wanting to leave. Alli will probably go a few years down the line, and frankly I'm surprised the likes of Alderweireld, Eriksen and Lloris haven't already left. But Kane is the one I think will be here for a long time yet.

Wouldn't he want to play in the new stadium if he is indeed ONE OF YOU

Yeah, I did think that when I posted that, but I think even Harry Kane could have his head turned by the big boys in Spain. Hope not, of course. I love him.

Did he not grow up an Arsenal fan?

something you've yet to do WAHEY!!!!!!

Davy Sanchez looks a player.

He reminds me a bit of Eric Bailly, a little headstrong but otherwise has just about everything you need to be a top player.

Aurier was incredible. I'm still not entirely sure what I think about us signing someone with his history, but fuck me he is fantastic. Everything you get from Walker (although slightly slower and weaker) but with a final ball as well.

Aye, I was really impressed with Aurier. He's got a few red cards in him though, I feel.

Need to get a win tonight, six points out of six is essential with the games against Madrid coming up. In a way I sort of hope we don't steamroller them, as that would mean they're competent enough to potentially take points off Dortmund.

Kane is taking the piss. Also say it quietly but Sissoko has been pretty good recently.

Anderlecht are shit but that was brilliant from Celtic, absolutely unheard of from us away from home. It really makes the difference when you're able to play 2 good defenders at centre back for once.

Also that fake tough guy Scott Brown was immense again last night so hopefully he's alright for the Scotland games. Anderlecht had their best spell after he went off injured.

They were absolutely rotten.

I thought yous did what was needed and Brown was the best player on the pitch by a mile and the defence looked very solid. Ntcham looked extremely poor apart from the pass to Tierney for the first goal, I honestly thought Rodgers was about to take him off just before that. European away win and a clean sheet is really quite the result. Can't wait for Bayern to trash yous. :)

How good is Tierney? Every time I've seen him he looks really good and I saw Rodgers talking him up the other day...are we talking potentially top level or will he end up at Swansea or Palace?

He's better than Alan Hutton.

He's one of the most complete young defenders I've ever seen. It's scary how good he is. Maybe you could watch a couple of Celtic games Simon...

I wish I could be as unbiased as you.

He looks a fantastic propsect, expect him to move to a big team in England or wherever in Jan or the summer. Only thing is he doesn't have much defending to do in that Celtic team. When he does he's very good at it but we'll need to see how he is being a defender who has to do more defending than attacking in some games.

Take your pick from any of the European group stage games we've had since he debuted or the England, Slovakia or Slovenia games for an idea.

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Originally Posted by MikeHunt

He's one of the most complete young defenders I've ever seen. It's scary how good he is. Maybe you could watch a couple of Celtic games Simon...

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You still crying about me saying the Scottish league is shit? Even if I did watch a Celtic game it wouldn't be representative of how shit the league is.

It would be because you'd see them thrash the majority of teams they play.

One thing the Scottish league does have is good games. The quality might not be there but there's usually a few exciting game a week.

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Originally Posted by Simon

You still crying about me saying the Scottish league is shit? Even if I did watch a Celtic game it wouldn't be representative of how shit the league is.

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No its more about forming your own opinion. The games are on TV every week.

I honestly couldn't care less if you think scottish football is shit.

Can't wait for tomorrow night, good opportunity to find out how good we really are in relation to the best teams in Europe. My prediction: not very good.

The last time we were there is still fresh in the memory. That was a really, really shit night.

I remember being convinced there was an outside chance we could get the 5-0 win we needed in the second leg :lol:

I remember telling my Mum to make sure she watched as it could 'get interesting'. :\

And what the fuck was Crouchy doing in that 1st leg?

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Originally Posted by Simon

Can't wait for tomorrow night, good opportunity to find out how good we really are in relation to the best teams in Europe. My prediction: not very good.

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How do you feel about the team now?
That was a solid performance.

Feels like a win that, what with the Dortmund/Apoel result.

Could have won it, could have lost it. Amazing from Lloris tonight. We looked so solid at the back. Only negative was an iffy performance from Eriksen.

Happy man right here.

Aurier is still a bit mental.

Aye, that was beyond daft. Amateur stuff. Alderweireld was clearing the ball as he slid in. Disappointing. He still has the potential though.

I really don't understand the criticism of Aurier. Or at least the nature of it. It was a bad tackle from a technical point of view, but the idea that it was rash, or stupid, is just not true - Kroos was ten yards out with a clear shot at goal, Vertonghen probably wasn't close enough to stop him getting the shot off. IMO Aurier had to make the challenge, he just didn't quite get it right. I guess it's his reputation preceding him a little bit but I wouldn't particularly dig him out for that tackle, and other than that he was exceptional.

Really good performance overall, albeit aided by Lloris having an absolutely incredible performance. Winks, Aurier and (seriously) Sissoko were all brilliant, and with a bit of luck Kane would have won it for us late on. Only minor down point was that Eriksen had a rare off day when we could really have done with him.

I was surprised how much Madrid let us play - they looked dangerous every time they got the ball in attack, but the gaps they left in midfield and defence were a bit mad. Maybe they underestimated us.

With Dortmund drawing away to APOEL, we only need four points to guarantee we go through now - a win at home to APOEL and a point from the other two would do it. In fact realistically I think just that win at home to APOEL would do it. What a transformation from last year.

Aye, perhaps it's a bit of his reputation preceding him, but I thought it was quite clear that Alderweireld was there, so sliding in was not necessary. A split second after he slides in, Toby clears it.

Overall, Aurier was absolutely fine. And I couldn't believe the space, Sissoko in particular, was granted. Crazy.

Bloody, bloody, bloody love Modric. Fucking class player. Didn't have a blinder or owt, it's the subtle little things he does and he rarely does anything wrong.

Is Bale expected to be out for the Wembley game too?

It was cleared because Kroos was on the floor and the ball got away from him. He had plenty of time to take a shot if Aurier didn't make the tackle - as Simon said, right idea, just badly executed.

Haven't seen much of Winks up until now but he is a player!

He's so good and improving all the time. I hope he keeps getting opportunities for us because if he plays regularly he can and will be a starter for England, and he's exactly what we need. Brave in possession, always wants the ball, willing to take players on through the middle...just a very, very good player, and didn't look in the least bit phased playing against the best team in Europe.

Murphy you're spot on about Modric, he's such a beautiful player to watch. I know it's a cliche but he really does seem to glide around the pitch, effortlessly manipulating the opposition with his body movement as much as the ball. Him and Isco are just a different gear completely. Was a bit disappointed we didn't get to see more of Asensio as by all accounts he's got a bit of that about him as well.

He's got the inside track to England starts purely by being a central midfielder who can pass the ball so really hope he can continue to push on at Spurs. He could have come through at the perfect time for the World Cup given the state of our midfield options and it's good that he's already got a start under his belt for England before then too. Seeing him perform so well against Madrid was brilliant.

It's a good sign that you see him on the team sheet away to Real Madrid and as a Spurs fan, I wasn't worried at all. And I'm sure he'll get plenty of chances this season. He won't play all the games, obviously, but he'll be used a lot, I'm sure.

Fucking hell.

Great performance, especially defensively. :yes:

Was watching Brentford and my eyes nearly popped out my head when I saw that result. Fantastic stuff.

3-1 doesn't even tell the story, we should have had 5 or 6. Madrid were astonishingly bad.

Not going very well for Real at the minute, Shame :lol:

Wow. Just wow.

So good to see Dele turn up too, as he was woeful against West Ham and Utd. Only downer tonight was the injury to Alderweireld.

That was stunning. And like Si said, we could have really got 4 or 5. Epic night. Kinda wish I'd been in the pub, but then I'd be wrecked now. :D

So europa league but still, Pretty notable, Evra sent off before the game for kicking a fan in the face

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNp7KO5W0AAnldR.jpg:large

Liverpool do a Liverpool. Some amazing bottling there.

Topping a group featuring Madrid and Dortmund. Mental.

Dortmund were shite in both games though.

I thought they looked decent going forward at Wembley, but were embarrassingly bad at the back.

Enjoyed that last night. :wiggle:

Must get to Wembley before the end of the season...

Juventus vs. Tottenham Hotspur

Basel vs. Manchester City

Porto vs. Liverpool

Sevilla vs. Manchester United

Real Madrid vs. Paris Saint-Germain

Shakhtar Donetsk vs. Roma

Chelsea vs. Barcelona

Bayern Munich vs. Besiktas

The Real-PSG tie should be lovely. Spurs and Chelsea got the toughest draws of the English sides but can see the other 3 getting through. Also give Spurs a good shot.

We'll win 3-0 in Italy, a result which is sandwiched in between a 1-0 defeat at West Brom and a 0-0 draw at home to Burnley.

Don't be silly, Simon. We've already drawn at home to Burnley.

Well this game is a bit mental. Spurs awful for the first 10, stupid from Aurier at the end of the half giving away a 2nd penalty, but have been excellent in between. 2-1 down, could easily be 3-1 down, but could also just as easily be 3-3.

Rarely a dull game with Spurs.

Bringing two away goals to Wembley is a nice result after being 2 down. Definitely hope for getting through. Winning 4 - 0 would have been just too simple for Spurs.

We are really fucking good yet infuriating. 80 minutes of dominance away to one of the strongest and most consistent teams in Europe, but we only get a draw because we started like total dickheads.

Dembele and Eriksen. I just don't get why none of the top sides want them. Vertonghen too, though he wasn't great tonight. All three are good enough for any team in the world.

Im sure if anyone ever got the impression that those players could be bought, then loads of clubs would come in. There's a reason why Real Madrid are the only team that ever gets linked to your players.

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Originally Posted by RuneEdge

Im sure if anyone ever got the impression that those players could be bought, then loads of clubs would come in. There's a reason why Real Madrid are the only team that ever gets linked to your players.

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You have a point, but just an example I remain baffled that Barca went for Coutinho when they never even sniffed around Eriksen, who is a better player and is more suited to the Barca style - we're not an easy team to buy from, but when £100m+ is being bandied you can't say teams aren't looking at him because of the price tag.

Vertonghen and Dembele are just criminally underrated, I don't think it's a case of teams being priced out, they're just not interested. Dembele at least is getting the credit he deserves now after the last few games when everyone has suddenly clocked what a brilliant player he is, Vertonghen is just utterly baffling to me - Toby gets a shitload of credit, and rightly so, but Vertonghen is as good if not better and you never even hear him linked with a move to a top side. Lloris gets linked more often despite their being zero possibility that one of the elite teams would want him because he's so bad with his feet.

To be fair, Eriksen was one of the few names thrown around when Barca were looking for recruitments after selling Neymar. I just don't think anyone believes they can take a player off Spurs unless it makes sense from Spurs' POV. United tried hard with Eric Dier last summer and got nowhere.

And also like you pointed out, I don't think the players have any real desire to leave either. The players probably look at it and think that yeah, there are bigger and better clubs you can move to after Spurs, but is the step up big enough to take that risk? Just in England alone, besides City, is it even worth leaving Spurs to go to United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc? Its almost a sideways move. And then when you talk about Europe, there's literally just Barca, Madrid, Bayern, PSG and Juve that you can consider as a significant step up.

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Originally Posted by RuneEdge

To be fair, Eriksen was one of the few names thrown around when Barca were looking for recruitments after selling Neymar. I just don't think anyone believes they can take a player off Spurs unless it makes sense from Spurs' POV. United tried hard with Eric Dier last summer and got nowhere.

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English teams, and United in particular (along with Chelsea and Arsenal obviously) are a different issue - we don't want to sell to them because not only does it weaken us, it strengthens a rival. I don't think we would have sold Dier to United even if we were actively trying to get rid of him - for various reasons, City is the only option for a player wanting to leave us for a bigger club but stay in England However hard we push to keep players, you can double that if United are looking.

I'm not sure I buy the idea that the top European clubs don't think they could get players off us though - I don't think the elite clubs think in those terms, they work on the correct assumption that every player wants to join them, and so eventually they will get the players they want if they put enough work in.

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And also like you pointed out, I don't think the players have any real desire to leave either. The players probably look at it and think that yeah, there are bigger and better clubs you can move to after Spurs, but is the step up big enough to take that risk?

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Don't agree with this at all. Just about every player in our first-team squad could reasonably expect to double their wages if they played elsewhere. I think I'm right in saying Lloris is our best paid player on just over £100k a week - it's unreasonable to expect players like Kane or Eriksen to stay when they are outperforming players in similar positions earning three times their wage if not more. So while they may not have a desire to leave for football reasons, money is a major factor and we can't compete on that front.

This is the next major hurdle for us - it's all well and good doing enough on the pitch for players to want to stay, but being able to afford the going rate to keep them will require a shit ton of money. And I think you have to be realistic and say that even players who are unlikely to naturally agitate for a move will eventually have their head turned if they're being offered double what they currently own. I genuinely believe that Kane will stay as long as we are competitive on the pitch, he has said enough times that he wants to become a club legend like Totti and unless we end up outside the top six I think he will be happy to stay long term. But Eriksen, Alderweireld, Alli etc? They have no ties to the club, they are ambitious, competitive players and they have agents in their ear telling them what they're worth. You can't expect to keep players under those circumstances unless you're willing to match what other clubs are offering them.

That goes for Poch too - not that I think he would chase the money, but he's a very ambitious man and he has ties to both PSG (played for them) and, indirectly, Madrid (as an Espanyol hero he absolutely hates Barcelona), if he has another year or two of trying and failing to win despite doing as much as he can, it's unrealistic to expect him to turn down their interest when they offer everything we can't. I don't dismiss the chance that he has laid down roots here and loves the club enough to try to build a legacy, but it's not something I think we can expect - this is another major hurdle, losing Pochettino would be a far bigger problem than losing any player in the side, including Kane.

Long story short, we can't expect our players to want to stay unless we're competing on the pitch AND paying them what they are worth. Right now we are doing the former but not the latter, and I'm not sure how well placed we are to do so in the near future. Hopefully the sale of Walker, and the new stadium, will help in that regard.

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Just in England alone, besides City, is it even worth leaving Spurs to go to United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc? Its almost a sideways move.

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Liverpool would be a sideways move, albeit with a significant pay increase. The other three offer the money we can't, alongside trophy opportunities which are at least as good if not better than what we can offer. But we wouldn't sell to United, Chelsea or Liverpool, so there's no issue there - City are the only English club we need to worry about.

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And then when you talk about Europe, there's literally just Barca, Madrid, Bayern, PSG and Juve that you can consider as a significant step up.

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That's a fair number of potential buyers though when you've got a side full of players capable of playing for them that aren't being paid what they are worth.

This probably all sounds very negative, but I'm just trying to be realistic - we are performing exceptionally well at the moment and, for the third season in a row, are competing with sides way bigger and richer than us (City notwithstanding obviously, no one is competing with them). I am confident that, whatever happens with losing players or the manager, we are well set to continue competing at the top, with a new stadium coming soon and a squad full of players who, IF they get sold, will bring in enough money to replace them adequately. It's a fantastic time to be a Tottenham fan, but it would be silly not to recognise that we may be close to reaching a point where the club can't get to the next level (ie. becoming an elite European club) but our players and manager can if they leave.

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Originally Posted by Simon

Don't agree with this at all.

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Sorry, I read your post to mean the player isnt interested in leaving, rather than clubs not being interested them. I still think Spurs' players won't be looking at the likes of Chelsea and United and wishing they could move there. That's not to say they arent bigger at the moment. I just dont think the gap between them and Spurs is big enough for players to actively push for a move.

You make a fair point about Spurs not selling due to them not wanting to strengthen an English rival. But I think you're understating the quality of some of your players when you wonder why none of the European giants have come in for them. If Paulinho can play for Barca, then most of Spurs' midfield can, for sure. Sometimes you can't truly comprehend the quality of a player until they actually make the move to a Barca or Madrid. I think back to when Modric was playing for Spurs and people were rightfully praising him as a great player. But no one at that time ever looked at him and said "not only is he great, he's probably one of the top 2 or 3 central midfielders in the whole world", which is what people started to call him after seeing him perform at the highest level with Madrid. Eriksen to me seems like someone who could play for Barca or Bayern, etc if they didn't already have players (who're higher profile and more expensive) who play the same role.

c'mon the FCPORTO

I don't buy Eriksen being better than coutinho. Just don't see it

Did I miss something, or did someone say Eriksen was better?

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Originally Posted by Simon

You have a point, but just an example I remain baffled that Barca went for Coutinho when they never even sniffed around Eriksen, who is a better player and is more suited to the Barca style - we're not an easy team to buy from, but when £100m+ is being bandied you can't say teams aren't looking at him because of the price tag.

Vertonghen and Dembele are just criminally underrated, I don't think it's a case of teams being priced out, they're just not interested. Dembele at least is getting the credit he deserves now after the last few games when everyone has suddenly clocked what a brilliant player he is, Vertonghen is just utterly baffling to me - Toby gets a shitload of credit, and rightly so, but Vertonghen is as good if not better and you never even hear him linked with a move to a top side. Lloris gets linked more often despite their being zero possibility that one of the elite teams would want him because he's so bad with his feet.

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You missed something...

Thought you were referring to something I said. My bad.

Eriksen is absolutely better than Coutinho IMO. Don't get me wrong Coutinho is great but Eriksen is astonishingly good and is more consistent than Coutinho. Also gets through a surprisingly phenomenal amount of work, his distance covered is among the highest in the league last time I checked.

I was gonna say that Coutinho's younger. Turns out he's older than I thought and Eriksen's younger than I had imagined.
I think Coutinho suits Barca better. He's a better replacement for Iniesta, which is why they apparently bought him. While Eriksen might have more to his game, I don't think Barca's play style would appreciate that.

OK but coutinho scored more goals in a worse side and didn't have an absolute goal machine to gobble up half chances created.

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Originally Posted by RuneEdge

I was gonna say that Coutinho's younger. Turns out he's older than I thought and Eriksen's younger than I had imagined.
I think Coutinho suits Barca better. He's a better replacement for Iniesta, which is why they apparently bought him. While Eriksen might have more to his game, I don't think Barca's play style would appreciate that.

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Coutinho makes sense as a replacement for Neymar, Eriksen is much more of an Iniesta replacement.

Coutinho isn't like Neymar. If anything, its Ousmane Dembele that more closely resembles the style of player that Neymar is. They're both like pacey, skillful wide forwards. Almost like wide strikers, similar to how Hazard can operate at times. Or Mbappe even. Coutinho isn't like these players. He's more closer to a midfielder than a forward/wide striker, like how Iniesta is. Iniesta also occasionally plays down the left flank, just like Coutinho does.

I think Coutinho would be considered Neymar's replacement in the sense that they needed to replace his creativity in the team, but they provide that to the team in different ways. I think if Neymar was still at Barca, Coutinho would've played alongside him. Dembele on the other hand wouldn't.
And that was the idea that people talked about with the two transfers. Dembele was supposed to be for Neymar, and Coutinho for Iniesta.

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Originally Posted by Hero!

c'mon the FCPORTO

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Good job there’s a 2nd leg.

Manes third was absolute filth. Quite fancy a hat trick here lads bosh

Mane is sexy & amazing.

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