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Fro
February 6th, 2020, 10:18 PM
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Welcome to a new decade of NFL football. Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes led the Chiefs to their first championship in 50 years and seem poised for more. I ask you, how many titles will Mahomes win before his career is over?

Key Dates
February 24 - March 2: NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis IN.
February 25 - March 10: Window for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 16: Legal Tampering Period begins.
March 18: Free Agency and new league year begins.
April 23-25: NFL Draft, Las Vegas NV.
July 15: Deadline to sign Franchise Players to a multiyear contract.
August 6: Start of preseason, Canton OH.
August 8: Hall of Fame Induction, Canton OH.
September 10: Regular Season Opener.
January 9, 2021: Playoffs begin.
February 7, 2021: Super Bowl LV, Tampa FL.

Percussion
February 6th, 2020, 10:28 PM
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Fro
February 6th, 2020, 10:50 PM
I'm pretty high on his chances, as most people are at this point. He's only 24 and already has his first. But it's very hard to win them even when you have an offense so stacked. Last year they lost in OT in the conference title game, this year they were down 10 in the 4th of the SB and could have easily lost (even though they are clearly well equipped for comebacks). The point being, when you get to the final four it's pretty much always a coin flip in those last 2 games.

I say he will end his career with 3. Maybe he gets one more with this core of Kelce/Hill and one more later on. Getting to 4 is tough.

Kneeneighbor
February 6th, 2020, 11:13 PM
I am going to stay on the low side, be bold and say 1.

Fro
February 6th, 2020, 11:27 PM
I am going to stay on the low side, be bold and say 1.

are you worried that he's usurped Rodgers as the "most talented" QB of all time?

Kneeneighbor
February 7th, 2020, 12:50 AM
Not at all. I don't get all wrapped up in that stuff. I am taking the same approach I did with Tiger. When all my friends were talking about how he would break Jack's record I took the under. He has a supremely talented offensive group. That group is about to break up and Mahomes is about to get a boat load of cash, (and take up a lot of cap).

Bandit
February 7th, 2020, 1:18 AM
Let's rewind a quick sec. Rodgers wins SB in 2010. Goes 15-1 and wins MVP in 2011. Everyone anoints him (and GB) the new king(s) and crowns the Packers as the next dynasty.

I think there's definitely a good shot Mahomes wins AT LEAST another one before it's all said and done but I'm gonna try my best to enjoy the show without setting expectations.

Rancid_Planet
February 7th, 2020, 4:10 AM
https://media0.giphy.com/media/SwUgZh4IbvYg31Scik/source.gif

Welcome to a new decade of NFL football. Andy Reid and Patrick Mahomes led the Chiefs to their first championship in 50 years and seem poised for more. I ask you, how many titles will Mahomes win before his career is over?

Key Dates
February 24 - March 2: NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis IN.
February 25 - March 10: Window for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 16: Legal Tampering Period begins.
March 18: Free Agency and new league year begins.
April 23-25: NFL Draft, Las Vegas NV.
July 15: Deadline to sign Franchise Players to a multiyear contract.
August 6: Start of preseason, Canton OH.
August 8: Hall of Fame Induction, Canton OH.
September 10: Regular Season Opener.
January 9, 2021: Playoffs begin.
February 7, 2021: Super Bowl LV, Tampa FL.

Hmmmm. I say Mahomes will get one more champyachaw before it's all said and done.

This team feels like it can win one more before free agency breaks it up and Andy dies or retires. After that? Man it's really hard to qb to more than 2 of these things.

Fanny Batter
February 7th, 2020, 6:39 AM
Nobody other than Brady has won more than two since Aikman, right? So I think it'd take a brave man to go for three or more. It's a league of parity, let's see how the Chiefs adapt to him being the highest paid player in history rather than on his rookie contract. I'll lean with 2 as I think they keep the core of this team together temporarily and they either repeat or win it in the 2021 season, but after that I think that division gets better and they go into the role of every other team other than the Pats and Browns - they'll get to the Playoffs sometimes, might make a Super Bowl or two, but ultimately won't become a dynasty.

For this year, my lean is the Ravens. Quarterback in a rookie contract, skill players still young and improving. They got shown up against the Titans, but these Playoff failures will hold them in good stead in the future. Ironically I don't think they storm to a Conference Championship or anything, probably actually face adversity in the regular season and come in with all the lessons under their belt. Beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl.

Chris Scott
February 7th, 2020, 3:15 PM
I’m calling Tua for Miami.

Randolph
February 7th, 2020, 3:49 PM
Detroit trades down and picks three tight ends for its first picks in the NFL draft.

Peter Griffin
February 7th, 2020, 5:27 PM
I quite enjoyed the second half of the superbowl, And while I will never fully understand the rules I will at least be watching some games next season, So with that said I need a team :chin:

Kdestiny
February 7th, 2020, 6:53 PM
Detroit trades down and picks three tight ends for its first picks in the NFL draft.

If they don't take Okudah they are crazy

Rancid_Planet
February 7th, 2020, 8:08 PM
Nobody other than Brady has won more than two since Aikman, right? So I think it'd take a brave man to go for three or more. It's a league of parity, let's see how the Chiefs adapt to him being the highest paid player in history rather than on his rookie contract. I'll lean with 2 as I think they keep the core of this team together temporarily and they either repeat or win it in the 2021 season, but after that I think that division gets better and they go into the role of every other team other than the Pats and Browns - they'll get to the Playoffs sometimes, might make a Super Bowl or two, but ultimately won't become a dynasty.

For this year, my lean is the Ravens. Quarterback in a rookie contract, skill players still young and improving. They got shown up against the Titans, but these Playoff failures will hold them in good stead in the future. Ironically I don't think they storm to a Conference Championship or anything, probably actually face adversity in the regular season and come in with all the lessons under their belt. Beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl.

Ill go the exact other way.

Team that takes the biggest step back next season? The Ravens.

Bandit
February 8th, 2020, 5:24 AM
What if Tua falls to GB

BigAl
February 8th, 2020, 8:36 AM
What if Tua falls to GB

I think the Colts would take him well before he fell to GB. Rumor has it they’re considering moving up to draft a QB. Not sure if they’ll move up far enough to take Tua though.

Pablo Diablo
February 8th, 2020, 8:54 AM
If Miami doesn't take him there would have to be some serious medical concerns. Which he will then overcome and set records. It's the Miami way.

Fanny Batter
February 8th, 2020, 9:15 AM
My thought is that the Dolphins trade down from 5th for the team that takes Tua. I think Fins go best player available for their three picks and go QB next year. Maybe trade out of the first round too with their 26, for another first rounder next year. Although the Brady situation could change that. If Brady leaves and the Pats don't take a QB via free agency or trade, they'll attack the draft and go for key skill positions in the hope of being in the mix for the division straight away. Brees situation too, could see the Buccs being aggressive if he retires as I don't think Bridgewater or Hill win them big games. There's loads of teams that might need a QB at this rate - Big Ben, Wentz and Rodgers could do with more able deputies given the injury history, the Lions and Panthers will be monitoring the health of Stafford and Newton. Titans, Chargers, Patriots, Saints and Buccs have their starters entering free agency, and the Colts, Jags, Raiders and Bears could be looking for upgrades. Throw in the Dolphins and Bengals, the latter who will definitely take Burrow, and half the league could be shopping. I think most of the teams stay as is (Pats, Titans, Bears, Lions, Panthers, Saints, Eagles, Steelers, Packers, Jags and Raiders maybe take a flier on a late rounder or take a Rosen or Mariotta in free agency), but it'll be interesting.

Chris Scott
February 8th, 2020, 10:07 AM
If Miami doesn't take him there would have to be some serious medical concerns. Which he will then overcome and set records. It's the Miami way.

Hahaha yeah.

Chris Scott
February 8th, 2020, 10:09 AM
My thought is that the Dolphins trade down from 5th for the team that takes Tua. I think Fins go best player available for their three picks and go QB next year. Maybe trade out of the first round too with their 26, for another first rounder next year. Although the Brady situation could change that. If Brady leaves and the Pats don't take a QB via free agency or trade, they'll attack the draft and go for key skill positions in the hope of being in the mix for the division straight away. Brees situation too, could see the Buccs being aggressive if he retires as I don't think Bridgewater or Hill win them big games. There's loads of teams that might need a QB at this rate - Big Ben, Wentz and Rodgers could do with more able deputies given the injury history, the Lions and Panthers will be monitoring the health of Stafford and Newton. Titans, Chargers, Patriots, Saints and Buccs have their starters entering free agency, and the Colts, Jags, Raiders and Bears could be looking for upgrades. Throw in the Dolphins and Bengals, the latter who will definitely take Burrow, and half the league could be shopping. I think most of the teams stay as is (Pats, Titans, Bears, Lions, Panthers, Saints, Eagles, Steelers, Packers, Jags and Raiders maybe take a flier on a late rounder or take a Rosen or Mariotta in free agency), but it'll be interesting.

Nah we ain’t trading down with anyone, especially knowing they’ll take Tua. If anything we’re trading up, rumours looking to do that with Redskins.

Rancid_Planet
February 8th, 2020, 11:03 PM
Titans will coach defense via committee with no DC after Dean Pees retirement. Not so big on that idea.

Also not on the sign Henry to an huge contract bandwagon. It's just bad business with rbs.

It's cruel but just double franchise tag him the next couple seasons and by then the wheels will be off more than likely.

Caito
February 9th, 2020, 11:59 AM
My thought is that the Dolphins trade down from 5th for the team that takes Tua. I think Fins go best player available for their three picks and go QB next year. Maybe trade out of the first round too with their 26, for another first rounder next year. Although the Brady situation could change that. If Brady leaves and the Pats don't take a QB via free agency or trade, they'll attack the draft and go for key skill positions in the hope of being in the mix for the division straight away. Brees situation too, could see the Buccs being aggressive if he retires as I don't think Bridgewater or Hill win them big games. There's loads of teams that might need a QB at this rate - Big Ben, Wentz and Rodgers could do with more able deputies given the injury history, the Lions and Panthers will be monitoring the health of Stafford and Newton. Titans, Chargers, Patriots, Saints and Buccs have their starters entering free agency, and the Colts, Jags, Raiders and Bears could be looking for upgrades. Throw in the Dolphins and Bengals, the latter who will definitely take Burrow, and half the league could be shopping. I think most of the teams stay as is (Pats, Titans, Bears, Lions, Panthers, Saints, Eagles, Steelers, Packers, Jags and Raiders maybe take a flier on a late rounder or take a Rosen or Mariotta in free agency), but it'll be interesting.


Only way I see the Dolphins trading out of Tua to get a QB next year is for Lawrence, and the Dolphins aren’t gonna be bad enough to be the top pick next year. Take Tua, sit him behind Fitzpatrick, move Rosen either by trade or just cut him (though I honestly don’t know his cap hit) and let next year play out.

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 11:28 AM
If they trade down for a team looking to take Tua (say if the Colts give up a 2nd and next years first), it's not out of the realms of possibility for that pick to be quite high as he's likely a QB that sits behind a vet. That could then give them the capital to get Lawrence next year. If they can get 2 firsts or a first and a second for that five pick, I'd consider it good business. I think they go best on the board as they're short in a lot of areas, and go rookie QB when they've got the skill players to make a playoff run while he's in the rookie contract.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 11:29 AM
If they trade down for a team looking to take Tua (say if the Colts give up a 2nd and next years first), it's not out of the realms of possibility for that pick to be quite high as he's likely a QB that sits behind a vet. That could then give them the capital to get Lawrence next year. If they can get 2 firsts or a first and a second for that five pick, I'd consider it good business. I think they go best on the board as they're short in a lot of areas, and go rookie QB when they've got the skill players to make a playoff run while he's in the rookie contract.

I would be shocked if anyone traded the 1st pick next year and didnt take Larwernce.

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 11:49 AM
Who do we see as being terrible next year to get him? He's definitely a franchise QB and should go first, but most of the bad teams from this year either underachieved, are in win now territory and will pursue a QB this year (Chargers, Panthers possibly) or are already in a rebuilding project with a young QB or a guy signed to a big contract recently. Would be funny if the Cards bombed and they took a QB for the 3rd time in 4 years. Or the Browns.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 11:54 AM
My point is if you end up in that spot then your "franchise QB" you already have isn't actually a franchise QB. If the Browns end up there they have to cut bait on Baker. Same thing with teams like the Giants. You cannot stick with Daniel Jones ig Trevor Lawrence is staring you in the face.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 11:56 AM
Only way I see the Dolphins trading out of Tua to get a QB next year is for Lawrence, and the Dolphins aren’t gonna be bad enough to be the top pick next year. Take Tua, sit him behind Fitzpatrick, move Rosen either by trade or just cut him (though I honestly don’t know his cap hit) and let next year play out.


I would be shocked if anyone traded the 1st pick next year and didnt take Larwernce.

The only point I'd make in contrast to these stances is that you just never know. I think many thought Cincinnati wasn't going to be good this season and they just had the floor ripped out from under them and went straight to the bottom. Tanking, to an extent, is pretty damn hard in the NFL and one-off injuries (especially at the QB position) really derail a team.

Like let's say....Buffalo, Houston, Dallas, Seattle are four examples. Let's say one of them suffered an injury at the QB position that crippled them for the year and they bottomed out and got the first pick. I doubt they'd take Lawrence. I'm sure there's other scenarios (not many) but those were the first four that came to mind.

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 12:08 PM
Or if they trade down to the Colts or Buccs for their 2021 first - scenario, start the season with Brissett (or Winston), go 0-4. Tua comes in and wins 3 on the bounce but breaks a couple of fingers, misses a month and they sit him at 3-9, leading to a 3 or 4 win season and top pick, but enough tape to run with Tua going forward. Possibilities are plentiful. Niners went from #2 pick to #31 pick in a year. League of parity. A lot of the teams that sucked last year are as good as the fringe playoff teams. Look at the Lions early last year, and the Panthers. The bottom just fell out. Sport is weird man, look at the Titans - if they don't get those Tannehill comebacks when they were 2-4, do they kick on? If they're 3-6 going into that Chiefs game, the confidence probably isn't there to nick it late. All of a sudden you're swapping between Tannehill and Marcus the rest of the season (like the Jags or Steelers), you finish 5-11 and are picking early.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 12:08 PM
I would argue that Dallas 100% should take Lawerence and dump Dak. Dak wants $40 million. F that.

I could argue that with Buffalo Allen is not special. Hes solid. Soon he needs to get paid. Lawrence gives you another 5 years of rookie contract QB. You do not pass on a generational QB to keep Josh Allen.

Houston has enough talent that even with a back up QB they wont pick #1.

Seattle I do not know enough on Wilson's contract but at 31 years he is getting up their in age. I also think they wouldn't finish with the 1st pick. Cincinnati was bad from the start. But even losing a top QB doesnt mean #1 pick. Shit look at Green Bay a few years ago, Pittsburgh this year.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 12:11 PM
Let me put it this way: how many teams would not take Larwence if they ended up with the first pick?

Kansas City
Baltimore
San Francisco ???
Seattle (I will concede this one)
Arizona

Anyone else?

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 1:26 PM
It's hard to say without seeing how a team ends up with the #1 pick, and what they do in terms of contracts in the next year. The Rams, for example, surely wouldn't consider it based on Goff's contract being difficult to get off the books. But in terms of talent, and knowing the top tier QB's are really young, 35+ or one Russell Wilson. I think every team who has an older starter would draft him and sit him for a year if possible. The teams with younger QB's, not do sure. If teams tank because of Baker, Darnold or Allen, they probably move on. If those teams struggle due to injury, they probably stick with what they've got and give it another year given they were top 10 picks.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:32 PM
They would all do the same thing the Cardinals did.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 1:35 PM
They would all do the same thing the Cardinals did.

I may be wrong but that doesn't exactly check out to what FB suggested. He referenced three QBs later in the post that have shown more potential than Rosen ever did with Arizona. Granted, that offense was trash but he didn't really look like a QB that was going to amount to much. You can understand the argument of what the Cardinals did based on what Rosen did.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:37 PM
If you say "I am going to pass on Lawrence because I have Daniel Jones" that is a clown move.

What young QBs and teams are we adding to that list above?

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:40 PM
For the record Goff can be cut or traded after next seasons and its only $15 mil cap hit.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 1:41 PM
If you say "I am going to pass on Lawrence because I have Daniel Jones" that is a clown move.

What young QBs and teams are we adding to that list above?

Depends on the cut-off for "young"...?

Regardless of the cut-off, you're probably at 25 percent of the league that would be in a mix of unequivocally say they're passing or would believe they're not interested for the potential headache.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:43 PM
Generational QB but not worth the headache. Got it.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 1:44 PM
Good talk, lol.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:45 PM
I have 5 teams on my list that wouldnt take him. You havent added any.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 1:46 PM
I have 5 teams on my list that wouldnt take him. You havent added any.

And you didn't answer my question so I can help provide you with what you need.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 1:48 PM
You can add any Team in the NFL you want.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 1:57 PM
Well, I'll just go with young since that's the basis of the conversation point.

I'll add your five, add Houston, add Dallas, add the three FB mentioned, add the Eagles for starters. The thing is, you're thinking like you think and that's fine but I don't think that's exactly how NFL teams think (which is what I'm taking into account). Specifically with FB's examples, those aren't exactly great organizations but have tried to show a commitment to improving. They still may be flawed but confirmation bias could be a situation that clouds their overall judgement. They picked their guy and they have to feel they're right. Doesn't mean they're right, but that's a situation that runs rampant in the NFL quite often.

Kneeneighbor
February 10th, 2020, 2:30 PM
Houston I agree.

Dallas I 100% disagree. They dont want to give Dak a boat load of money. Now if they sign him this offseason to a huge contract that change.

Eagles I disagree but can see the argument. Wentz hasnt shown me enough but its hard to get out of his contract till after 2022.

I get what you are saying with the NFL way of thinking but I think its a giant mistake.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 2:33 PM
Houston I agree.

Dallas I 100% disagree. They dont want to give Dak a boat load of money. Now if they sign him this offseason to a huge contract that change.

Eagles I disagree but can see the argument. Wentz hasnt shown me enough but its hard to get out of his contract till after 2022.

I get what you are saying with the NFL way of thinking but I think its a giant mistake.

I think the jury is still out on Dak but I'm inclined to think he's more in the worth it category versus not being worth it. I just don't think they want to be the team that has to set the market. They're also negotiating with hubris though because they're trying to market that being the QB of the Cowboys allows you ventures once your career is over. While true, that's not something that should really be a selling point when it's time for a contract (his first big one).

The Eagles one is entirely due to them already paying Wentz.

I agree that the general conservative approach to the NFL is a mistake, but that's why I baked it into your assessment and thinking a good chunk of teams would pass on Lawrence. It's not entirely based off talent.

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 2:48 PM
I think Dallas would if they bombed, just based on Dak's salary expectations after the 2020 season. That's a team with too much talent to finish bottom regardless of if Dak got injured. In the weakest division in the league, they should at least go 3-3. Bengals, Browns, Cardinals, Falcons too. If they finished last with that D (surely better this year) and Zeke at RB, then Dak ain't going to turn them into Super Bowl challengers from that, though Lawrence could. I do think the Texans, if they lost Watson for the majority of the year, could theoretically tank. It's already happened once. Watt is held together with skipping rope and they're not strong at running back. But with Watson healthy, they're a fringe contender. They wouldn't draft Lawrence and would surely draft edge rusher #1, or trade down (my original point) if somebody wanted Lawrence and they weren't falling behind edge needy teams.

Allen, Mayfield and Darnold, if they don't improve, would be in the Trubisky situation right now, which is to say they'd get another year most likely, sparing absolutely catastrophic performances. To your point, in fairness, I think all 3 would look to upgrade if the stats didn't make up for the results. If they win less than 6 games and the INT's outweigh the TD's, sure. Back to my initial point, my scenario entailed a team trading their first next year for a pick this year, and finishing with the worst record too. I don't think that's out of the realms, as they'd be trading up for Tua, yet might sit him behind a veteran to start the season. Then you end up with what very nearly happened to the Redskins. Do you think they'd have gone Burrow if they hadn't beaten the Dolphins and ended up #1? They run with Haskins, who showed late promise.

Chris Scott
February 10th, 2020, 4:48 PM
If they trade down for a team looking to take Tua (say if the Colts give up a 2nd and next years first), it's not out of the realms of possibility for that pick to be quite high as he's likely a QB that sits behind a vet. That could then give them the capital to get Lawrence next year. If they can get 2 firsts or a first and a second for that five pick, I'd consider it good business. I think they go best on the board as they're short in a lot of areas, and go rookie QB when they've got the skill players to make a playoff run while he's in the rookie contract.

Good points but all said and done, why wouldn’t a team looking for that willing to do that just go all out for Lawrence anyways next year.

Chris Scott
February 10th, 2020, 4:49 PM
Ah my bad just seen the posts raised about it.

Chris Scott
February 10th, 2020, 4:52 PM
Just read Tua’s hip is completely healed and will be doing football stuff in a month. It’s all set in place for us, it’s just meant to be.

On another note about Lawrence, you’ve got to think Jags, Colts, Bucs & Panthers will be shit next season so will be favourites to get him.

Percussion
February 10th, 2020, 4:57 PM
Despite all of his immense talent, I would feel so uncomfortable if my team drafted Tua..

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 5:00 PM
Just read Tua’s hip is completely healed and will be doing football stuff in a month. It’s all set in place for us, it’s just meant to be.

On another note about Lawrence, you’ve got to think Jags, Colts, Bucs & Panthers will be shit next season so will be favourites to get him.

Any good news for Tua that is good news is, in some form or fashion, good news for the Lions.

I'm not so sure about the assessment about the Colts and Bucs but the other two could be in the mix.

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 6:57 PM
Despite all of his immense talent, I would feel so uncomfortable if my team drafted Tua..

That's my lean. If you can trade down to a team desperate for a QB, you could end up with some pretty solid capital. If you're Miami or the Chargers for example, do you take Derek Carr or Cam Newton and the Raiders/Panthers first to move back from 5th or 6th? You'd get a dependable starter for a couple of years if you're not convinced of Tua's franchise altering talent, with a first round pick still as ammo. Cam in particular I could see getting used as bait, as you'd only be falling back a couple of spots.

There were rumours that the Lions were thinking of moving on from Stafford, so I could just see him going third there, and Stafford going to maybe Tampa Bay for a second rounder.

Caito
February 10th, 2020, 7:03 PM
Colts def won’t be in the running for Lawrence next year unless Jacoby takes a major step back.


I also see the Buccs bringing the electric factory known as Jameis Winston back. Going for 40/40 next year.

Chris Scott
February 10th, 2020, 7:48 PM
Any good news for Tua that is good news is, in some form or fashion, good news for the Lions.

I'm not so sure about the assessment about the Colts and Bucs but the other two could be in the mix.

You think the Lions would really be in for him if they did move on from MS? I honestly think they’ll trade an established one or get a free agent.

Jamie and Jacoby are at their level, they can’t get any better. Colts less likely to be there out those teams mentioned yes.

Chris Scott
February 10th, 2020, 7:50 PM
Colts def won’t be in the running for Lawrence next year unless Jacoby takes a major step back.


I also see the Buccs bringing the electric factory known as Jameis Winston back. Going for 40/40 next year.

You honestly think BA will carry on with Jamies if he carries on like that?

Caito
February 10th, 2020, 7:56 PM
I can hope

Percussion
February 10th, 2020, 8:58 PM
Why would the Colts pass up Lawrence to keep Brissett..?

- - - Updated - - -


That's my lean. If you can trade down to a team desperate for a QB, you could end up with some pretty solid capital. If you're Miami or the Chargers for example, do you take Derek Carr or Cam Newton and the Raiders/Panthers first to move back from 5th or 6th? You'd get a dependable starter for a couple of years if you're not convinced of Tua's franchise altering talent, with a first round pick still as ammo. Cam in particular I could see getting used as bait, as you'd only be falling back a couple of spots.

There were rumours that the Lions were thinking of moving on from Stafford, so I could just see him going third there, and Stafford going to maybe Tampa Bay for a second rounder.

Just to be clear my issue with Tua has zero to do with his talent.. It's 100% with his injury history/future..

Fanny Batter
February 10th, 2020, 9:08 PM
Same, he might have ended up consesus number 1 without the injury history. The accuracy and legs are very promising if he can hold up. Be interesting to see if he's a full participant at the combine.

BGMaverick
February 10th, 2020, 10:35 PM
You think the Lions would really be in for him if they did move on from MS? I honestly think they’ll trade an established one or get a free agent.

Jamie and Jacoby are at their level, they can’t get any better. Colts less likely to be there out those teams mentioned yes.

I am only looking at it from the perspective that a clean bill of health on Tua creates urgency for teams behind Miami and they're the first team to likely target a trade with. They have any and all options on the table and that's an opportunistic position to be in. Like him? Draft him. Okay with multiple guys? Take the best offer available to move down a few spots.

I disagree with both QBs to different degrees and for different reasons. Brissett clearly wasn't the same QB after he suffered his knee injury in the middle portion of the season. He looked very solid as a game manager with flashes before he got hurt. They didn't have a full compliment of pass catchers from the jump (not having their rookie and free agent acquisition). That's two key weapons missing and Hilton was hobbled in the later portion of the season.

Jameis was awful with turnovers but that was the first year in a new system. They were 7-9, despite that. Their footing would have to completely disappear for them to be a tank team.

Rancid_Planet
February 10th, 2020, 11:23 PM
Tua will probably be drafted higher than the concerns about his health justify simply because there will be at least one GM/Head Coach who is more afraid of what will happen to his job if he passes on Tua and Tua is a success than if he drafts Tua and Tua turns out to be a bust.

Randolph
February 11th, 2020, 12:22 AM
What really is worse in the NFL draft? Drafting a mega bust or passing on a future hall of famer?

I know they go hand in hand, like the 2003 Pistons drafting Darko and missing Dwayne Wade. But one has to be slightly worse than the other.

Fro
February 11th, 2020, 4:18 AM
Most consecutive starts by a QB for one team:

1. Brett Favre, GB, 253
2. Phillip Rivers, SD/LA, 224

That streak is major. What a shame he never made it to a super bowl. It would be a great story if he made a run with his new team. I’m against Rivers as a hall of famer but he’s nevertheless been an institution in the AFC, albeit on an underwhelming franchise.

Rancid_Planet
February 11th, 2020, 4:24 AM
Before TEN started making plans around Tannehill there was a lot of talk last year that the Titans would bring in Rivers for the 2020 season. At the time I was very much for it.

Rancid_Planet
February 11th, 2020, 4:32 AM
What really is worse in the NFL draft? Drafting a mega bust or passing on a future hall of famer?

I know they go hand in hand, like the 2003 Pistons drafting Darko and missing Dwayne Wade. But one has to be slightly worse than the other.

Well I think passing on a future hofer is looked at as worse by a lot of ownerships. Coaches seem to bite the dust quite often over guys they didn't draft opposed to guys they did but things just didn't work out for.

I don't really know if that's fair though. I mean like perc was pointing out. There are some legit concerns to be made about Tua. If he gets passed on by one or more teams then I'm certainly not passing judgement.

I mean who am I? Just saying though.

Chris Scott
February 11th, 2020, 7:46 AM
I am only looking at it from the perspective that a clean bill of health on Tua creates urgency for teams behind Miami and they're the first team to likely target a trade with. They have any and all options on the table and that's an opportunistic position to be in. Like him? Draft him. Okay with multiple guys? Take the best offer available to move down a few spots.

Well it’s certainly interesting how Lions play it all out, I do think they are the only team that can mess our plans up to get Tua, if we don’t fancy drafting 2nd. We can match anyone below us draft capital wise.


I disagree with both QBs to different degrees and for different reasons. Brissett clearly wasn't the same QB after he suffered his knee injury in the middle portion of the season. He looked very solid as a game manager with flashes before he got hurt. They didn't have a full compliment of pass catchers from the jump (not having their rookie and free agent acquisition). That's two key weapons missing and Hilton was hobbled in the later portion of the season.

Jameis was awful with turnovers but that was the first year in a new system. They were 7-9, despite that. Their footing would have to completely disappear for them to be a tank team.

Out the two I’d say Jamies will get worst. I mean how longs he been in the league now? And not as if he’s had good receivers every season. His decision making is awful, come 5 games in BA will be tired of him.

virms
February 11th, 2020, 8:12 AM
I quite enjoyed the second half of the superbowl, And while I will never fully understand the rules I will at least be watching some games next season, So with that said I need a team :chin:

Is there a city in the US that stands out to you? One youd like to visit more than any other? I might go with that one. It would make things more fun should you ever get to visit.

Jacksonville is playing 2 games in London next year so theres that. Theres a rumor Miami might play 2 games in London next year as well. If you pick the dolphins you and Pabs can be miserable together.

Pablo Diablo
February 11th, 2020, 8:24 AM
And Chris Scott.

virms
February 11th, 2020, 8:53 AM
Sounds like nwo 2020 is about to form to me

Bandit
February 11th, 2020, 11:04 AM
Tua will probably be drafted higher than the concerns about his health justify simply because there will be at least one GM/Head Coach who is more afraid of what will happen to his job if he passes on Tua and Tua is a success than if he drafts Tua and Tua turns out to be a bust.

I was kind of thinking this way, but the opposite. I.e. that GMs won't be patient enough to spend a high first round pick on a QB that likely won't play year 1, with how short of a leash most coaches/GMs are on. I feel like guys like Herbert/Love/Fromm will be drafted higher than they should go because GMs will trick themselves into thinking they've extended their leash by drafting a guy who can (hopefully) start right away.

Peter Griffin
February 11th, 2020, 12:36 PM
Is there a city in the US that stands out to you? One youd like to visit more than any other? I might go with that one. It would make things more fun should you ever get to visit.

Jacksonville is playing 2 games in London next year so theres that. Theres a rumor Miami might play 2 games in London next year as well. If you pick the dolphins you and Pabs can be miserable together.

I'm gonna have a look at the divisions later and pick a team, I don't wanna be a glory supporter but at the same time I think picking a team that loses every week may scupper any enthusiasm I am building.

Honey_Badger
February 11th, 2020, 1:31 PM
Before TEN started making plans around Tannehill there was a lot of talk last year that the Titans would bring in Rivers for the 2020 season. At the time I was very much for it.

Rivers in Tennessee would make a ton of sense.

BGMaverick
February 11th, 2020, 1:39 PM
Rivers in Tennessee would make a ton of sense.

It doesn't in the sense of thinking of developing someone like Brown. You're theoretically setting that very promising stud to catch passes from four different QBs in the span of 2-3 years.

Honey_Badger
February 11th, 2020, 1:47 PM
The greats (Hopkins, Thomas, Fitzgerald) have all done a fine job adjusting to different QB's throughout the years. If they maintain the same system you'd think the WR would be fine.

BGMaverick
February 11th, 2020, 2:39 PM
The greats (Hopkins, Thomas, Fitzgerald) have all done a fine job adjusting to different QB's throughout the years. If they maintain the same system you'd think the WR would be fine.

Seems really unnecessary to do now if you think you've found someone who fits in Tannehill, especially if you're opting to go with someone as erratic as Rivers can be.

Fanny Batter
February 11th, 2020, 3:56 PM
It's whether they think a short term Rivers deal is more financially benefical than a long term Tannehill one. Perhaps they see the Super Bowl window is within 2 years, and if they can get Rivers to his best level for 2 years then it's probably a step up from Tannehill's potential production. There's more tape to suggest that Rivers can win you more games, regardless of last season. We didn't pick Tannehill up for the change behind the sofa for no reason, this was unforeseen, and a drop off would have to be expected based on history. I'd stick with Ryan because he's part of a winning culture now and deserves to ride that wave, but I'd be tentative in giving him a Cousins type of guaranteed deal.

Chris Scott
February 11th, 2020, 4:09 PM
Is there a city in the US that stands out to you? One youd like to visit more than any other? I might go with that one. It would make things more fun should you ever get to visit.

Jacksonville is playing 2 games in London next year so theres that. Theres a rumor Miami might play 2 games in London next year as well. If you pick the dolphins you and Pabs can be miserable together.

Isn’t that Jags playing 2 games you mean?

Oh my bad you mentioned that. I doubt we’ll play 2 games any year in London, just the usual one.

Kneeneighbor
February 11th, 2020, 4:11 PM
It's whether they think a short term Rivers deal is more financially benefical than a long term Tannehill one. Perhaps they see the Super Bowl window is within 2 years, and if they can get Rivers to his best level for 2 years then it's probably a step up from Tannehill's potential production. There's more tape to suggest that Rivers can win you more games, regardless of last season. We didn't pick Tannehill up for the change behind the sofa for no reason, this was unforeseen, and a drop off would have to be expected based on history. I'd stick with Ryan because he's part of a winning culture now and deserves to ride that wave, but I'd be tentative in giving him a Cousins type of guaranteed deal.

Rivers is hot garbage. He is a loser and will always be a loser. Now he is a loser with no arm.

BGMaverick
February 11th, 2020, 4:11 PM
It's whether they think a short term Rivers deal is more financially benefical than a long term Tannehill one. Perhaps they see the Super Bowl window is within 2 years, and if they can get Rivers to his best level for 2 years then it's probably a step up from Tannehill's potential production. There's more tape to suggest that Rivers can win you more games, regardless of last season. We didn't pick Tannehill up for the change behind the sofa for no reason, this was unforeseen, and a drop off would have to be expected based on history. I'd stick with Ryan because he's part of a winning culture now and deserves to ride that wave, but I'd be tentative in giving him a Cousins type of guaranteed deal.

Woof that'd be a hell of an assessment on Rivers because there were multiple times over the course of the season where he just looked washed.

Chris Scott
February 11th, 2020, 4:13 PM
I see it now Brady to Chargers and Rivers to Patriots :lol:

Kneeneighbor
February 11th, 2020, 4:40 PM
I keep thinking Teddy may end up in NE. Seems like Bill could do wonders with him.

BGMaverick
February 11th, 2020, 4:48 PM
I keep thinking Teddy may end up in NE. Seems like Bill could do wonders with him.

I think he’d be more excited with the multi-faceted nature of Hill but Bridgewater fits too. Pretty sure it’d be easier to get TB too because Hill is a restricted free agent.

Caito
February 11th, 2020, 5:20 PM
Well it’s certainly interesting how Lions play it all out, I do think they are the only team that can mess our plans up to get Tua, if we don’t fancy drafting 2nd. We can match anyone below us draft capital wise.



I really dont don’t think the Lions are ready to move on from Stafford. He is still a good QB. Plus, I’m not sure Matt Patricia wants to start brand new at that position, considering if they don’t do well next year, he could be fired as soon as mid season.

Chris Scott
February 11th, 2020, 6:11 PM
Yeah he’s gone by Thanksgiving. Lions will be crap again. Forgot to add them to the Lawrence list.

BGMaverick
February 11th, 2020, 6:15 PM
There is something to be said for the fact that they basically suffered two rough losses early in the season (GB and KC) and that stupid tie in week one and they lost every game after Stafford went out.

Peter Griffin
February 11th, 2020, 6:22 PM
AFC: KC Chiefs
NFC: Vikings

These are the teams I now follow :lol:

Kneeneighbor
February 11th, 2020, 10:34 PM
LoL. Enjoy cheering for the Vikings man.

Pablo Diablo
February 11th, 2020, 11:05 PM
I'm gonna have a look at the divisions later and pick a team, I don't wanna be a glory supporter but at the same time I think picking a team that loses every week may scupper any enthusiasm I am building.

Supports the defending Super Bowl champions.

virms
February 11th, 2020, 11:19 PM
AFC: KC Chiefs
NFC: Vikings

These are the teams I now follow :lol:

You are now a rival of my bears and I hate your god damn face.

Rancid_Planet
February 11th, 2020, 11:37 PM
Rivers in Tennessee would make a ton of sense.

Would have at the time. Offense is looking to need a different kind of guy now though and the team is in love with Tannehill. He will be given a contract. He actually just switched agents to the same one Jon Robinson, the GM uses.

Rancid_Planet
February 11th, 2020, 11:40 PM
I see it now Brady to Chargers and Rivers to Patriots :lol:

You know what would be fun?

Brady to Dallas.

Skip Bayless's head would explode.

Bandit
February 12th, 2020, 3:09 AM
I honestly can't imagine where Brady ends up. Literally none of the realistic options make sense in my head.

Fro
February 12th, 2020, 3:33 AM
New England.

Peter Griffin
February 12th, 2020, 4:46 AM
Supports the defending Super Bowl champions.

Who won for the first time In 50 years right hardly a Dynasty, Let's see where this train goes baybay.

Bandit
February 12th, 2020, 12:12 PM
New England.

That's the only team that makes sense to me honestly. I'd love to see him go somewhere else just because it'd be a super interesting story, and people are reporting he and Bill are having some minor beef too, but I'm having trouble visualizing him playing for anyone else lol

Kneeneighbor
February 12th, 2020, 12:19 PM
Myles Garrett is back

BGMaverick
February 12th, 2020, 12:30 PM
That's the only team that makes sense to me honestly. I'd love to see him go somewhere else just because it'd be a super interesting story, and people are reporting he and Bill are having some minor beef too, but I'm having trouble visualizing him playing for anyone else lol

Out of the teams that have been prominently mentioned:
Titans - They are probably not rocking the boat but the offense is probably catered to him rather well. Will be revered by the organization.
Raiders - Missing an dynamic WR but they've got everything else on offense. Defense is sketchy. Probably set up for disaster in terms of chemistry between the coach and QB.
Cowboys - Probably a good fit but Dallas isn't likely abandoning what they've built with Dak.
Niners - See Cowboys.
Chargers - The O-line is rough as hell.
Patriots - Need more weapons on offense.

Bandit
February 12th, 2020, 12:53 PM
So removing DAL and SF, OAK and LAC were both losing teams and play in the same division as SB-winning chiefs. They do each have some good pieces though, particularly LAC.

TEN was great down the stretch, but without Henry that doesn't happen, Brady or no Brady. And Henry is saying Zeke's contract is the floor of what he will accept, and may not be back in TEN.

NE isn't set up to scratch Brady's itch of what he wants, but it's familiar and he's won with that setup before.

BGMaverick
February 12th, 2020, 1:02 PM
So removing DAL and SF, OAK and LAC were both losing teams and play in the same division as SB-winning chiefs. They do each have some good pieces though, particularly LAC.

TEN was great down the stretch, but without Henry that doesn't happen, Brady or no Brady. And Henry is saying Zeke's contract is the floor of what he will accept, and may not be back in TEN.

NE isn't set up to scratch Brady's itch of what he wants, but it's familiar and he's won with that setup before.

More elaboration...

As for the first two teams after your removal, if they're good, they'll be a wild card team. Those two teams are big-fish hunting I presume with their moves. The Raiders need a glitzy face to market for the move, and the Chargers desperately need anything to try to entice people to watch them from a local perspective. I think looking at everything, I think there's potentially a better avenue of success with the Chargers over the Raiders. Despite the issues with the line with the Chargers, there's too much institutional chaos that can arise with the Raiders.

I do think the Titans were unfathomably successful in terms of red zone scoring proficiency over the later portion of the season so if that regresses a bit, the team might not be as strong as they were this season.

The Patriots simply need more at tight end and receiver in order to get things in order there. It's a matter of if they're willing to go to bat at the level that's probably required.

Fro
February 12th, 2020, 1:38 PM
The Patriots have generally reloaded big time with offensive weapons after a down year in the passing game so I have faith that will happen again. One challenge is that they tried to do that with Sanu when they sent a 2nd rounder for him, and he disappointed. He didn't become black Edelman as I predicted, but I'm hopeful that with a full offseason with the team he will be better.

Rancid_Planet
February 12th, 2020, 1:43 PM
So removing DAL and SF, OAK and LAC were both losing teams and play in the same division as SB-winning chiefs. They do each have some good pieces though, particularly LAC.

TEN was great down the stretch, but without Henry that doesn't happen, Brady or no Brady. And Henry is saying Zeke's contract is the floor of what he will accept, and may not be back in TEN.

NE isn't set up to scratch Brady's itch of what he wants, but it's familiar and he's won with that setup before.

Henry will be back in TN. Just a question on if they stick the franchise tag on him or not. It's not really up to him.

BGMaverick
February 12th, 2020, 2:09 PM
The Patriots have generally reloaded big time with offensive weapons after a down year in the passing game so I have faith that will happen again. One challenge is that they tried to do that with Sanu when they sent a 2nd rounder for him, and he disappointed. He didn't become black Edelman as I predicted, but I'm hopeful that with a full offseason with the team he will be better.

Something that makes me question the general process is that they want a plan and they want to execute it with time in mind. Any successful organization is going to want a plan that is sustainable over time. The difference is that the Patriots have been able to actually do that. That's where the dichotomy begins though now with Brady. If you're keeping Brady in the mix, you're not looking at promising prospects. You're looking at guys like Sanu (not in stature, but vets) and you have to hope you hit with them and that fit within the scheme. That's not making the team younger and it will be less built on finding deals/steals with contacts. Is that something Belichick is going to want to do? If he's willing to do it, can Brady hold up? If he doesn't, you've got all these shiny toys and Brady can't capitalize on them. There's a lot of variables in play.

Caito
February 12th, 2020, 6:16 PM
The big problem the Pats are gonna have when it comes to reloading the offense is that if Brady makes it to free agency, no matter what they sign him for you have to add 13 million to the cap. There goes some money for those weapons. If they make it to free agency without a deal, he’s gone.


And as a Pats fan... I’m ok with it. I get it. And what more can I really ask for? Almost 20 years of year in, year out success. 9 SB appearances, 6 wins. How can you ask for more?

I want him to finish here, but if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Still the best QB to ever play the game and brought this region a ton of success.

Pablo Diablo
February 12th, 2020, 9:08 PM
Brady going somewhere else will be even stranger than Montana with the Chiefs.

Peter Griffin
February 12th, 2020, 9:19 PM
Just noticed that the Raiders relocated to Las Vegas? Big sports town eh? Gambling and eloping is all I know of the place

Rancid_Planet
February 12th, 2020, 11:21 PM
Just noticed that the Raiders relocated to Las Vegas? Big sports town eh? Gambling and eloping is all I know of the place

Its fucking stupid.

A tourist city. The crowds wont be anything like Bay Area ones.

Bandit
February 12th, 2020, 11:50 PM
Henry will be back in TN. Just a question on if they stick the franchise tag on him or not. It's not really up to him.

If Henry is saying Zeke's contract is the floor for him, does he play under the franchise tag? Or hold out?

Rancid_Planet
February 13th, 2020, 12:18 AM
If Henry is saying Zeke's contract is the floor for him, does he play under the franchise tag? Or hold out?

He'll play under the tag if he wants to make anything at all. Which he does. I mean it'll piss him off and he'll hold out of training camp while his team says how bad they need him to be there etc. Same old same old.

It sucks for him but this is the league. And I say do it to him TWICE. Sorry but not sorry Derrick. I want a super bowl and I also don't want to sign ANY rb to a long term free agent deal.

And the tag isn't ALL bad. I mean Kirk Cousins just made a fortune that way for a few seasons.

BGMaverick
February 13th, 2020, 12:27 AM
Its fucking stupid.

A tourist city. The crowds wont be anything like Bay Area ones.

Passion? I probably agree. Attendance? I don't agree.

Kneeneighbor
February 13th, 2020, 12:53 AM
Vegas has been amazing for Hockey. Yes there will be tourists who come to watch the road team but there are a lot of people in town who have been craving something of their own.

BGMaverick
February 13th, 2020, 12:56 AM
Vegas has been amazing for Hockey. Yes there will be tourists who come to watch the road team but there are a lot of people in town who have been craving something of their own.

Exactly.

Rancid_Planet
February 13th, 2020, 1:24 AM
Passion? I probably agree. Attendance? I don't agree.

Have the oakland crowds not been good?

BGMaverick
February 13th, 2020, 1:38 AM
Have the oakland crowds not been good?

They've been loyal but I think you're underestimating the idea of a loyal fanbase in Vegas. As Knee noted, the Golden Knights have done extremely well, ranking in the top 5 in attendance since becoming a team. That's hockey. If there's a fan base that is consistently showing up for hockey, you bet like hell they're going to show up for NFL football. There's obviously rich tourism numbers that allow the city to thrive but there's also a local community that wants some normalcy. This would be part of that in a lot of ways.

Bandit
February 13th, 2020, 2:40 AM
He'll play under the tag if he wants to make anything at all. Which he does. I mean it'll piss him off and he'll hold out of training camp while his team says how bad they need him to be there etc. Same old same old.

It sucks for him but this is the league. And I say do it to him TWICE. Sorry but not sorry Derrick. I want a super bowl and I also don't want to sign ANY rb to a long term free agent deal.

And the tag isn't ALL bad. I mean Kirk Cousins just made a fortune that way for a few seasons.

I completely agree with your logic. But saying he'll play under the tag if he wants money is not the same as saying he'll play under the tag. We've seen other RBs hold out in spite of this. I'm not a TEN fan so I'll admit there are others who surely have a better grasp on the type of player Henry is. But that's a major wild card if I'm Tom Brady. I'm not even considering TEN unless Henry is already under contract.

Rancid_Planet
February 13th, 2020, 2:52 AM
I completely agree with your logic. But saying he'll play under the tag if he wants money is not the same as saying he'll play under the tag. We've seen other RBs hold out in spite of this. I'm not a TEN fan so I'll admit there are others who surely have a better grasp on the type of player Henry is. But that's a major wild card if I'm Tom Brady. I'm not even considering TEN unless Henry is already under contract.

Oh I see what you're saying. Yeah I would agree totally. But I'm not even considering Tom playing here.

Also...kind of don't want him.

Chris Scott
February 13th, 2020, 5:03 AM
You know what would be fun?

Brady to Dallas.

Skip Bayless's head would explode.

Hahaha yeah imagine.

Chris Scott
February 13th, 2020, 5:32 AM
The big problem the Pats are gonna have when it comes to reloading the offense is that if Brady makes it to free agency, no matter what they sign him for you have to add 13 million to the cap. There goes some money for those weapons. If they make it to free agency without a deal, he’s gone.


And as a Pats fan... I’m ok with it. I get it. And what more can I really ask for? Almost 20 years of year in, year out success. 9 SB appearances, 6 wins. How can you ask for more?

I want him to finish here, but if he doesn’t, he doesn’t. Still the best QB to ever play the game and brought this region a ton of success.

It reminds me of the whole Steven Gerrard with Liverpool, he played all his career with us and wanted to finish his career and us fans wanted him to. But of course age comes into, declined and I think Brady has and of course how the people in charge see it and what direction they want to go going forward. It’s obvious he wants to carry on playing but I said the same about Gerrard for us, I think it’s time to move on.

Randolph
February 13th, 2020, 11:55 AM
https://www.clickondetroit.com/sports/2020/02/13/sources-lions-in-trade-talks-to-deal-matthew-stafford/

Rumors are being denied Stafford is on the trade market, but I really don't care. This franchise will never has sustained success with the Fords as owners. It doesn't matter who the QB or coach is, or even the front office.

Fanny Batter
February 13th, 2020, 12:05 PM
Stafford is a good football player, and certainly not the thing holding the team back. The only reason they should consider it is if they absolutely think Tua is a nailed on, elite 15 year starter and they can get Stafford off the books to try and win during the rookie contract window. They were competitive with Stafford last season, and there's no reason to think they can't become a playoff team with this core and a 16 game Stafford, particularly with having that #3 pick to take a potential superstar in a key position. I can see the talks being an internal leak to be honest, to try and spark some activity in the draft to get that picked shopped for more capital. If the Dolphins genuinely think the Lions might take Tua they could give up 2 firsts for him, just for the Lions to take the player at 5 that they'd have taken at 3 anyway. Mind games.

Percussion
February 13th, 2020, 12:11 PM
The Lions are looking at $52M in dead cap over the next two years - $32M in particular for 2020 - should they move off of Stafford..

ya, he ain't goin anywhere.

PurePlayer
February 13th, 2020, 12:51 PM
what's the cap hit if they trade Stafford?

BGMaverick
February 13th, 2020, 1:19 PM
what's the cap hit if they trade Stafford?

That was answered in the post before yours.

PurePlayer
February 13th, 2020, 1:23 PM
That was answered in the post before yours.

ahh sorry thought that was what it was if he was cut. usually the trade his is less.

Percussion
February 13th, 2020, 1:41 PM
Traded or cut the dead cap money is what it is.

PurePlayer
February 13th, 2020, 2:14 PM
Traded or cut the dead cap money is what it is.

Don't think that's true. Alshon Jeffrey has a different dead cap hit for the eagles if he is traded vs being cut just as an example.

Kneeneighbor
February 13th, 2020, 2:19 PM
If a player has any guaranteed money in that particular season then his cut # would be higher than his traded #. If there is no guaranteed money outside of the signing bonus then those numbers are the same. At least that is my understanding.

Chris Scott
February 13th, 2020, 7:20 PM
Yeah no ones taking Stafford in a trade this season with that contact, not even we’re that stupid to trade for him. Clearly someone from Lions letting rumours out so they can trade down with someone.

Kneeneighbor
February 18th, 2020, 2:21 PM
Brees is back.

That means Teddy will not be a Saint. I hope he ends up starting in New England.

Bandit
February 18th, 2020, 3:44 PM
I'll be happy for him to start anywhere not in the NFCN

Rancid_Planet
February 18th, 2020, 7:06 PM
Good for Brees.

Can't wait for him to throw a ball so hard this season that his arm comes off with it.

He still comes back in time for the playoffs.

Pablo Diablo
February 19th, 2020, 7:54 PM
Playoffs changing.

1 bye per conference. 7 teams making it.

Percussion
February 19th, 2020, 8:08 PM
So Pitt and the Rams would've been playoff teams this past season.

Fuckin dumb.

Fro
February 19th, 2020, 8:36 PM
I don't like it because of what it does to the 2 seed. Losing that bye is tough to stomach, especially if you go 13-3. But it's less about them losing it and more about what the 1 seed is gaining. If you're the only team in the conference with a bye it gives you a huge advantage. I could see the 1 seed making the Super Bowl a higher percentage of the time now. The Conference Title games could become less competitive over the long term.

But I don't hate it either. I can see the advantages of it. 2 extra playoff games will make Wild Card Weekend bigger and better (not better on a per game average but better on the aggregate). A full slate of playoff games at 1, 4:30 and 8:30 sounds pretty sweet. 14 out of 32 teams making the playoffs (44%) is still a good number. There will be years when an 8-8 team gets in and we'll say they stink, but there will also be 10-6 teams in that slot fairly often. Heck, the Patriots were 11-5 and missed the playoffs that one year.

It makes the quest for the 1 seed more important but the quest for the 2 seed less important so that's kind of a wash.

Wild Card weekend will look like this:
2 vs 7
3 vs 6
5 vs 4

I would certainly vote to keep things the same, but it's not the worst.

The 17 game season though? That is less appealing. I don't want a work stoppage but I hope the players don't give in on that.

Percussion
February 19th, 2020, 8:49 PM
The entirety of the nfl schedule and playoff format is completely perfect as is..

Rancid_Planet
February 19th, 2020, 9:50 PM
The entirety of the nfl schedule and playoff format is completely perfect as is..

The playoff system really is. Nobody has a better playoff system than the NFL and here they go fucking with it.

Everyone thought it was so awful when Seattle got in with a 7-9 record.(Winning a game. Credit where its due) Well get prepared for a shit ton more of that.

Totally on board with having an odd number of games. I hate all the 8-8 teams. So I'm down for that. And I guess as a fan of the 9-7 Titans I should be happy about an extra team getting in because when you're always 9-7 you're always on the bubble....but no. Fuck that shit.

Rancid_Planet
February 19th, 2020, 9:58 PM
I also heard some folks talking on the Floyd Reese show about how the 17th game would probably be a neutral site. Mexico or London. Everyone gets 8 at home 8 away and one neutral. And that 17th game could then be packaged into a tv deal for ABC who wants back in badly and they would get all the neutral site games, one each week, and the NFL gets a 2 billion dollar check from them.

Don't know how workable that situation is but you can see where the NFL is frothing at the mouth to sell more games.

son_of_foley
February 20th, 2020, 3:55 AM
I can understand it more in the NFL because every team doesn't play every team right so you can have other matchups that aren't on the home or away schedule.

Would it mean Jacksonville and the like don't get to give up home games for London? I thought they kinda liked the cash.

Whilst I love the London games as the time is a bit more friendly for me I can imagine for west coast teams it must be an absolute pain the arse

Kneeneighbor
February 20th, 2020, 9:46 AM
I highly doubt they will play 16 games in London and Mexico under this format.

Caito
February 20th, 2020, 11:25 AM
This playoff setup benefits only a couple ways for the league.

1) Cash grab for the league for two more games wild card weekend.

2) Chance that a team that should’ve made the playoffs but didn’t (10+ win team), but more likely a mediocre team or two makes it.


The only benefit as a fan I see, is more gambling. Which I’ll do, of course, but otherwise that’s about it.

Fro
February 20th, 2020, 11:37 AM
And for those who don't gamble, more playoff football watching. Some people are projecting that the next logical step will be that 16 teams make the playoffs with no teams getting a bye. Bleh. I don't like this but as I said before, look on the bright side... Wild Card Weekend will become akin to those first couple March Madness weekends in terms of just how many playoff games are on consecutively (I mean, obviously not the same volume of games but a similar "all day" marathon during the weekend). That part will be cool.

No. 7 seeds by record, 2010-19:

8-8: Five
8-7-1: One
9-7: Eight
9-6-1: One
10-6: Five

Percussion
February 20th, 2020, 12:05 PM
Unless the 1-seed makes the SB then we'll teams playing 21 games a year..

because player safety..

Caito
February 20th, 2020, 3:31 PM
Unless the 1-seed makes the SB then we'll teams playing 21 games a year..

because player safety..


This. Player safety matters unless there is money to be made.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 3:41 PM
Unless the 1-seed makes the SB then we'll teams playing 21 games a year..

because player safety..


This. Player safety matters unless there is money to be made.

There's a pretty easy concession that can be made that alleviates the perception that player safety is now in larger danger with the idea of a 17th game being added to the regular season: 16 game max for a player during the regular season.

Randolph
February 20th, 2020, 3:42 PM
They can cut back on the damn preseason games. Who needs a week 4 anyways?

Caito
February 20th, 2020, 4:01 PM
Most of the real players don’t play preseason anyways.

hithit
February 20th, 2020, 4:13 PM
The entirety of the nfl schedule and playoff format is completely perfect as is..

This 100000000000%

Fro
February 20th, 2020, 4:18 PM
They can cut back on the damn preseason games. Who needs a week 4 anyways?

There will be only 3 if the 17 game schedule gets passed. That 4th game is important for fringe players, though.


There's a pretty easy concession that can be made that alleviates the perception that player safety is now in larger danger with the idea of a 17th game being added to the regular season: 16 game max for a player during the regular season.

I hate that idea so very much. I mean, look at what happens in the NBA when teams rest players. Fans don't like paying for a game months in advance only to have the star player resting. Imagine you plan a very expensive trip to see your team play on the road and Patrick Mahomes is off that week to meet his quota. And it's not just the ticket buyers - it would make the television product worse as well. ESPN selects the Chiefs for a MNF game, and the same shit happens. And gambling.... When do the teams announce these healthy scratches that would cause the spread to shift dramatically? The more I think about that idea and the downstream effects, the more it makes me barf. I don't see that as a viable solution though I've seen it suggested in other places. We talk about extra games diluting the quality of play... mandatory benching of players would be the definition of dilution.

It's up to the players union to say no to a 17 game schedule. If they need to go to a work stoppage, so be it. I agree it's very hypocritical in regard to player safety to extend the season. NFL owners are greedy bastards. And the players, seemingly, are about to say yes to it. They will reap the benefits of higher salaries because that extra $5 billion or whatever in tv money will cause the salary cap to rise (not immediately but as that new revenue comes into effect). And future generations of NFL players will have no say in the matter. They will be playing a 17 game schedule now until forever.

Kneeneighbor
February 20th, 2020, 4:20 PM
There's a pretty easy concession that can be made that alleviates the perception that player safety is now in larger danger with the idea of a 17th game being added to the regular season: 16 game max for a player during the regular season.

I would be pissed if I buy tickets to a game and I get Tim Boyle and not Aaron Rodgers.

PurePlayer
February 20th, 2020, 4:20 PM
why not add an extra bye week for every team? people want more football so extend the season into mid february.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 4:26 PM
I would be pissed if I buy tickets to a game and I get Tim Boyle and not Aaron Rodgers.

I get your argument but it’s a poor example in my opinion lol. Fro’s was better.

My counter to your point is the NFL doesn’t care about you. They care about your money but necessarily about you. There’s no legit reason for the nature of the sport to change from where it is now. There’s no reason. There’s legitimate reasons as to why they can look to expanding. It doesn’t mean that it is right but it makes sense why they would.

It’s actually pretty damn ballsy on the part of the owners to suggest this in regards to the timing. This is a substantial talking point in regards to the financial landscape of the league and the fact it’s coming time to where a new CBA is on the on the horizon. It is in everyone’s best interest (players and owners) to get a deal locked up now. Even more of a best interest is to make it a long-term deal. That’s going to bring in a boat load of revenue to share.

Kneeneighbor
February 20th, 2020, 4:29 PM
Its the same example. I drive 6 hours to Lambeau once a year. I would be pissed if it is for the back up QB because the starter needs to rest to only play 16.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 4:32 PM
Its the same example. I drive 6 hours to Lambeau once a year. I would be pissed if it is for the back up QB because the starter needs to rest to only play 16.

Rodgers is on the back end of his career and not nearly as good as he once was. Mahomes, in theory, has more years ahead of him and more fun to watch in general. You also said it’s an annual trip so you’ve done this before and seen him multiple times, I’m guessing over a longer period of time, compared to the same circumstances for Mahomes.

Kneeneighbor
February 20th, 2020, 4:37 PM
So by that logic a Mahomes fan could go see him several more times. I only have a limited amount of time to see Rodgers before he is done.

Mahomes also had a capable backup who beat playoff teams with him out of the line up last year.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 4:40 PM
Sounds like the Packers need a better backup then lol.

Kneeneighbor
February 20th, 2020, 4:42 PM
Sounds like its a stupid idea to limit the number of games a player can play.

Think about teams like the Bears. They cant find one competent kicker. Now they are going to need a second for the rest week?

Fro
February 20th, 2020, 4:43 PM
Rodgers is on the back end of his career and not nearly as good as he once was. Mahomes, in theory, has more years ahead of him and more fun to watch in general. You also said it’s an annual trip so you’ve done this before and seen him multiple times, I’m guessing over a longer period of time, compared to the same circumstances for Mahomes.

Who cares about the specific example, lol. It would suck to have QBs (or any players for that matter) sitting out games unnecessarily. It would by definition lessen the quality of the sport.


My counter to your point is the NFL doesn’t care about you. They care about your money but necessarily about you. There’s no legit reason for the nature of the sport to change from where it is now. There’s no reason. There’s legitimate reasons as to why they can look to expanding. It doesn’t mean that it is right but it makes sense why they would.

It’s actually pretty damn ballsy on the part of the owners to suggest this in regards to the timing. This is a substantial talking point in regards to the financial landscape of the league and the fact it’s coming time to where a new CBA is on the on the horizon. It is in everyone’s best interest (players and owners) to get a deal locked up now. Even more of a best interest is to make it a long-term deal. That’s going to bring in a boat load of revenue to share.

I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying in this post. We know the reason is money. Money is a legitimate reason. And the timing is not coincidental or ballsy - they can only make these drastic changes when the CBA is under re-negotiation so this is the time to do it. They've been talking about it for years in advance of this.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 4:46 PM
I can't make heads or tails of what you're saying in this post. We know the reason is money. Money is a legitimate reason. And the timing is not coincidental or ballsy - they can only make these drastic changes when the CBA is under re-negotiation so this is the time to do it. They've been talking about it for years in advance of this.

Well it’s ballsy because you suggested that the players should force a work stoppage due to it. That’s the last thing either side needs. I’m sure it’s nice for players to think of future generations but not everyone is that noble.

Rancid_Planet
February 20th, 2020, 4:56 PM
Ok no NFL team would ever rest players of their own accord outside of game 16s that dont matter. The season is too short and each game matters too much. The NBA season is 82 games, MLB 162, NHL 484...it feels like, so they have the option. Would never fly in football. Has never flown.

So then they'd just start doing it as a matter of rule? Because they care so much about player saftey over good product? Gtfo. Never ever ever gonna happen.

Fro
February 20th, 2020, 4:59 PM
Well it’s ballsy because you suggested that the players should force a work stoppage due to it. That’s the last thing either side needs. I’m sure it’s nice for players to think of future generations but not everyone is that noble.

It's not just future generations I mean it's also the players that will still be around in a couple years when the 17 game schedule would go into effect. But I would argue that perhaps the player's union is in drastic need of a work stoppage. The owners will not stop being so ballsy as to suggest schedule expansion in the face of long-term-health issues until they start losing hundreds of millions. A work stoppage is at times very necessary, and perhaps this is a key moment in the history of the sport where it is warranted. We are at the intersection of health detriments becoming widely known (CTE, etc) and the NFL pushing for a longer season. If not now, when?

Fanny Batter
February 20th, 2020, 5:08 PM
So the plan is to start the season 1 week earlier (eliminating the final pre-season slate) and have an extra 2 games wild card weekend? It sounds good, but I'd worry about the quality of football decreasing due to coaches having to think of the health of the players. Plus, with an extra game to catch up, and an extra playoff spot up for grabs, these 21-0 games at half time could disolve into farce as the losing team lives to fight another day, with the percentage chance of progressing incrementally higher with 1 loss out of the 17 games and an extra wild card spot, than it would be in the existing format. It all adds up from a TV perspective obviously on paper (more football = more $$$), but in terms of how I'd see the viewing experience going, not so much. There are obviously positives from a viewing standpoint with wild card weekend expanding, but isn't it already pretty fucking exciting?! If we took this year for example, we'd have hardly been filling our knickers over the Steelers going to the Chiefs. Packers vs. Rams might have been decent mind.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 5:10 PM
It's not just future generations I mean it's also the players that will still be around in a couple years when the 17 game schedule would go into effect. But I would argue that perhaps the player's union is in drastic need of a work stoppage. The owners will not stop being so ballsy as to suggest schedule expansion in the face of long-term-health issues until they start losing hundreds of millions. A work stoppage is at times very necessary, and perhaps this is a key moment in the history of the sport where it is warranted. We are at the intersection of health detriments becoming widely known (CTE, etc) and the NFL pushing for a longer season. If not now, when?

Just to be clear, I'm not opposed to the line of thinking you're presenting because safety is obviously of high importance. I just didn't want it to come across that I'm pro owner and anti player. I just don't see the players doing it, especially when there's so much money there.

Caito
February 20th, 2020, 5:50 PM
Don’t be surprised if the players do indeed make the concession to go to a 17 game season, especially if they get weed cleared by the drug tests.

Bandit
February 20th, 2020, 6:38 PM
I love how kneeneighbor's point that it would suck to make an annual trip to see your team and they sit the starting QB was met with a statement that Mahomes is better and that GB needs a better backup QB lol.

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 6:49 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Caito
February 20th, 2020, 7:19 PM
Such a shame. No need for personal attacks on other QB’s such as Aaron Rodgers.



Even if he’ll never be as great as Tom Brady, no matter what anyone likes to think....

Fro
February 20th, 2020, 7:22 PM
So the player reps will meet tomorrow to decide, or at least begin the decision process, of approving the proposal on the table. I'm rooting for them to reject it! Everything in the media seems to be pointing that this is a done deal that the players will accept 17 games but the owners could easily be manipulating the reporting to their benefit.

No team has reached the Super Bowl without a bye since 2012 (Ravens). That's 7 years, 14 straight SB berths for bye teams. I hate that we're losing the balance of 2 bye week teams in each conference. But if and when the Patriots earn the 1 seed in the coming years I won't hate having the conference handed to us on a platter :D

BGMaverick
February 20th, 2020, 9:04 PM
But if and when the Patriots earn the 1 seed in the coming years I won't hate having the conference handed to us on a platter :D

If there's ever a season for Buffalo to take the East, this is probably it, lol.

Rancid_Planet
February 20th, 2020, 9:06 PM
Word. The players have the league by the base of their snardlys. They want that 17th game and extra playoff games BAD. So now is when they need to man up and demand better healthcare and pensions for retirement.

And yeah all the leagues need to grow up and stop failing guys for testing poisitive for weed. I mean grow the fuck up.

Randolph
February 20th, 2020, 9:18 PM
And yeah all the leagues need to grow up and stop failing guys for testing poisitive for weed. I mean grow the fuck up.

And stop throwing them in jail.

Percussion
February 20th, 2020, 9:29 PM
Word. The players have the league by the base of their snardlys. They want that 17th game and extra playoff games BAD. So now is when they need to man up and demand better healthcare and pensions for retirement.

And yeah all the leagues need to grow up and stop failing guys for testing poisitive for weed. I mean grow the fuck up.

Do the owners want that 17th game and extra playoff games as much as many of the players need to not be out of work..?

Rancid_Planet
February 21st, 2020, 4:37 AM
Do the owners want that 17th game and extra playoff games as much as many of the players need to not be out of work..?

I don't think it would come to a work stoppage. But good point.

Caito
February 21st, 2020, 7:32 AM
Word. The players have the league by the base of their snardlys. They want that 17th game and extra playoff games BAD. So now is when they need to man up and demand better healthcare and pensions for retirement.



I want to agree with this, because in theory they should, however the NFLPA has shown itself to be the weakest players union of the 4 major American sports time and time again. The owners know a work stoppage hurts players more, because at the end of the day, they’re still billionaires, and the players are not. So, they’re going to be a bit more willing to player chicken than the NFLPA will.

Matthew
February 21st, 2020, 11:33 AM
wow a lot of discussion for a year where the bills are going the easily win it all

3puppies
February 22nd, 2020, 12:29 AM
One suggestion I heard to the proposed 17 game season, but for "player safety" any individual players could only play 16 games, would be to allow players to count the 16 games as part of 32 halfs-games, or maybe 64 quarters. And the rosters would be expanded even further by allowing another couple of players.

Then, teams could sit a star like a Brady or Mahomes for the 4th quarter in games when they've got a comfortable lead, so fans could still get to see them - even if it only was for a half or so. It would make the coaches have to think a bit more, but it would also make the fantasy / gambling scenarios even harder to predict.

Fro
February 26th, 2020, 10:39 PM
This IG war between DK Metcalf and PFT Commenter was funny as shit

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1959998/heres-all-the-trash-talk-from-the-dk-metcalf-vs-pft-commenter-ig-story-inception-today

Fro
February 28th, 2020, 10:35 AM
The Tom Brady free agency story is getting a lot of coverage. None of it is particularly interesting or informative but certain insiders like Jeff Darlington have said they'd be shocked if he returned to New England at this point. That seems like someone who is very easily shocked. Others have said the Patriots are waiting for the CBA to be settled to engage in negotiations. But anyway, just curious to do a straw poll here: who do you guys got, New England or the field? If the field, what's your best guess as to where he lands?

I still have New England.

If not here, I think the Chargers make a lot of sense but I have reservations that he would want to play in LA when his family is currently centered in the NYC area.

Kneeneighbor
February 28th, 2020, 10:39 AM
I will take the field.

I am not sure where yet but I feel like if he and New England wanted to get the deal done it would have been done by this point.

BGMaverick
February 28th, 2020, 11:28 AM
The Tom Brady free agency story is getting a lot of coverage. None of it is particularly interesting or informative but certain insiders like Jeff Darlington have said they'd be shocked if he returned to New England at this point. That seems like someone who is very easily shocked. Others have said the Patriots are waiting for the CBA to be settled to engage in negotiations. But anyway, just curious to do a straw poll here: who do you guys got, New England or the field? If the field, what's your best guess as to where he lands?

I still have New England.

If not here, I think the Chargers make a lot of sense but I have reservations that he would want to play in LA when his family is currently centered in the NYC area.

The field.

1. Titans
2. Chargers
3. Raiders
4. Niners

Pablo Diablo
February 28th, 2020, 12:31 PM
I take the Patriots still as well. Football isn’t kind enough to Miami for Brady to leave yet.

Fro
February 28th, 2020, 9:11 PM
Free agency starting early. Tony Romo just got paaaaaaid

Breaking: Tony Romo and CBS have agreed to a deal that will make him the highest paid NFL analyst in TV history in a deal that will pay him around $17 million per season, according to sources.

Rancid_Planet
February 28th, 2020, 10:48 PM
Free agency starting early. Tony Romo just got paaaaaaid

Breaking: Tony Romo and CBS have agreed to a deal that will make him the highest paid NFL analyst in TV history in a deal that will pay him around $17 million per season, according to sources.

Deservedly so. I actually get excited when I find out Romo is calling my game. He has a great grasp of what kind of insight that we fans want to hear/can understand. He's just dynamite.

Rancid_Planet
February 29th, 2020, 1:17 AM
All these people saying how Brady should sign with TN.

It's becoming more real.

Not a fan.

Chris Scott
February 29th, 2020, 9:06 AM
The Tom Brady free agency story is getting a lot of coverage. None of it is particularly interesting or informative but certain insiders like Jeff Darlington have said they'd be shocked if he returned to New England at this point. That seems like someone who is very easily shocked. Others have said the Patriots are waiting for the CBA to be settled to engage in negotiations. But anyway, just curious to do a straw poll here: who do you guys got, New England or the field? If the field, what's your best guess as to where he lands?

I still have New England.

If not here, I think the Chargers make a lot of sense but I have reservations that he would want to play in LA when his family is currently centered in the NYC area.

You guys moving up then to take Tua away from us?

_me
February 29th, 2020, 9:51 AM
Free agency starting early. Tony Romo just got paaaaaaid

Breaking: Tony Romo and CBS have agreed to a deal that will make him the highest paid NFL analyst in TV history in a deal that will pay him around $17 million per season, according to sources.

https://twitter.com/bryancurtis/status/1216558330769883136

My favorite fact, which I never get tired of re-upping, is that Madden made more than any NFL player in 94.The equivalent is ESPN paying Romo like $40 million per year.

Caito
February 29th, 2020, 11:08 AM
I think in only two of his NFL seasons did he make more than 17 mil.

BGMaverick
February 29th, 2020, 1:35 PM
Romo is set to make eight times more talking about football than Prescott made last season playing football. Get paid, Dak.

hithit
February 29th, 2020, 1:38 PM
Romo is set to make eight times more talking about football than Prescott made last season playing football. Get paid, Dak.

Romo is better at talking about football than Dak is at playing football.

Rancid_Planet
February 29th, 2020, 2:23 PM
Romo is set to make eight times more talking about football than Prescott made last season playing football. Get paid, Dak.

I have to say, I can't believe Jerry doesn't seem more in on Dak. If he doesnt pay that man as soon as the CBA is announced he's being dumb. No Dak isn't perfect. But you can spend another 25 years trying to find one who is. Pay him, keep building around his strengths and try to win something.

Kneeneighbor
February 29th, 2020, 6:08 PM
I have to say, I can't believe Jerry doesn't seem more in on Dak. If he doesnt pay that man as soon as the CBA is announced he's being dumb. No Dak isn't perfect. But you can spend another 25 years trying to find one who is. Pay him, keep building around his strengths and try to win something.

Naw let him walk, draft a QB and keep paying guys at other positions.

That would be my move as a GM over and over unless I drafted a generational guy

Percussion
February 29th, 2020, 7:18 PM
I have to say, I can't believe Jerry doesn't seem more in on Dak. If he doesnt pay that man as soon as the CBA is announced he's being dumb. No Dak isn't perfect. But you can spend another 25 years trying to find one who is. Pay him, keep building around his strengths and try to win something.

Pay him and keep building around his strengths are kind of the crux of the problem..

Fanny Batter
February 29th, 2020, 7:47 PM
See, I think the Skins and Giants are such dysfunctional organisations NOW that if you can buy another season from Dak with the franchise tag, you do. If they get better, and you have to imagine they eventually will, you don't want a big chunk of money wrapped up in a QB that isn't proven in a competitive division. He's been in a division which is 50% good and has reached the playoffs in 50% of his seasons. He's not over achieving to the tune of $40 million a year. 1-2 in play offs. No Conference game. Would they find better in the next couple of drafts? Maybe not. Can they find competent while retaining and rebuilding key pieces elsewhere? Probably.

Rancid_Planet
February 29th, 2020, 11:25 PM
Pay him and keep building around his strengths are kind of the crux of the problem..

Feels like the defense sitting on its ass for 3 out of 4 quarters is the real problem in Dallas. But I only caught a couple games of theirs last season.

Quarterback pay is what is in this league. Pay them or start over and probably don't get one as good as Dak.

Kneeneighbor
March 2nd, 2020, 10:48 PM
Feels like the defense sitting on its ass for 3 out of 4 quarters is the real problem in Dallas. But I only caught a couple games of theirs last season.

Quarterback pay is what is in this league. Pay them or start over and probably don't get one as good as Dak.

Start over or stick with a guy who is around 14 or 15th best...

Rancid_Planet
March 2nd, 2020, 11:12 PM
Start over or stick with a guy who is around 14 or 15th best...

14th or 15th can win you a SB if you have the other pieces.

It's not that I like Dak all that much. But it's not like Jerry's getting any younger. If I'm him I don't want to wait another 5 years for someone else to develop.

Kneeneighbor
March 3rd, 2020, 12:21 AM
14th or 15th can win you a SB if you have the other pieces.

It's not that I like Dak all that much. But it's not like Jerry's getting any younger. If I'm him I don't want to wait another 5 years for someone else to develop.

Lamar had a shot in his 2nd and 3rd year. Mahomes was so close year 2 and won it year 3. Goff was there in year 3. A QB on a rookie deal is worth it. Paying for average QB play is not.

BGMaverick
March 3rd, 2020, 2:32 AM
Lamar had a shot in his 2nd and 3rd year. Mahomes was so close year 2 and won it year 3. Goff was there in year 3. A QB on a rookie deal is worth it. Paying for average QB play is not.

While all of those are true, it feels like you're trying to simplify a point that can't be simplified in light of this comparison. It's not like those QBs did it on their own. Lamar - strong run game, strong defense, smart coach. Mahomes - elite skill talent on the edge, conceptually-gifted scheme and coach. Goff - run game, offensive attack, tail end of a strong effort defensively.

I can't begin to explain any kind of consistency Dallas has had in terms of their defense, principles on offense, and their coaching. They've had talent but it's never been close to cohesive. If anything, he's been more dependable or reliable out of everything that can be examined with them. I can't fathom anyone is saying Dak is elite, but he's not average either...and he's had far less to work with in terms of stability compared to your examples. The price you have to pay for QB play is what it is. They missed their window to capitalize on it but he's not a scrub.

Rancid_Planet
March 3rd, 2020, 9:39 PM
Lamar had a shot in his 2nd and 3rd year. Mahomes was so close year 2 and won it year 3. Goff was there in year 3. A QB on a rookie deal is worth it. Paying for average QB play is not.

Well you have to consider why youre getting that play. For Dak you can look at his league average completion pct and his near top of the league yardage and understand pretty quickly that he's throwing too much and too deep down the field because of the holes his team keeps finding itself in.

You may be right. I just see an above average talent that can win if you build your team right.

All that being said, I'm skeptical of what Dallas can do to turn things around quickly. They've signed a lot of bad deals lately.

Chris Scott
March 5th, 2020, 8:32 AM
Is this Brady stuff finished now ffs.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 11:06 AM
Is this Brady stuff finished now ffs.

no but we are a mere 11 days away from the legal tampering window. get hyped.

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 1:22 PM
Is this Brady stuff finished now ffs.


I wish it was.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 2:42 PM
I wish it was.

Enjoy it while it lasts buddy. There will come a time when the Patriots are a regular franchise again, without the greatest coach and quarterback of all time, and this kind of attention won't be coming our way. Whether Brady stays or leaves, whether the result is good or bad in my mind, I'm savoring the journey, even these potential last couple weeks. It's fun to get this much attention, it's fun to be the story. Let the media clowns give us their daily report on what their sources are telling them. If this is the end of the dynasty, it deserves that attention.

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 2:48 PM
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve enjoyed this ride, and if it’s over, I think if they never win another while I live, I’m cool with six....

but this whole “will he/won’t he” has been so tedious and annoying that I just want it done with. If he’s back, cool. If he’s not, thanks for the 6, and who is next?

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 3:03 PM
well then you will be in for a treat when we get to the dead part of the offseason (post-draft) when there's no reason to follow the sport at all for a few months

BGMaverick
March 5th, 2020, 3:06 PM
Per report, ESPN is looking to talk to NBC to try to buy out Al Michaels from his deal to pair him with Peyton Manning for the MNF booth. Outside of that option, ESPN is interested in Phillip Rivers as an option as well.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 3:06 PM
good summary of/perspective on the labor deal here:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/03/problems-with-nfl-proposed-cba-17th-game-revenue-split?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true

seems likely (in my opinion) that it will get the 50% vote needed by the players to accept it. and that is a shame given that they are agreeing to 17 games without getting enough back. vote no!

Kneeneighbor
March 5th, 2020, 3:08 PM
good summary of/perspective on the labor deal here:

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/03/03/problems-with-nfl-proposed-cba-17th-game-revenue-split?utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&__twitter_impression=true

seems likely (in my opinion) that it will get the 50% vote needed by the players to accept it. and that is a shame given that they are agreeing to 17 games without getting enough back. vote no!

The owners have once again done a masterful job of splitting the union.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 3:14 PM
Per report, ESPN is looking to talk to NBC to try to buy out Al Michaels from his deal to pair him with Peyton Manning for the MNF booth. Outside of that option, ESPN is interested in Phillip Rivers as an option as well.

I hope it works out. Michaels moving over would be fine since NBC already has Tirico to replace him. And let ESPN/Disney pay Peyton a dumb amount of money to entice him into the booth. Anything to make the program better than it's been lately.

Rancid_Planet
March 5th, 2020, 3:21 PM
Love Peyton. Love him.

Don't know if I wanna hear him for a whole game though...

BGMaverick
March 5th, 2020, 3:24 PM
I really don't anticipate him doing it, despite ESPN's wishes. He's got some many opportunities outside of the NFL that could be exciting or interesting to him and he'll get whatever he asks for in return. And he's just as likely to become an owner or GM than an announcer.

BGMaverick
March 5th, 2020, 5:02 PM
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve enjoyed this ride, and if it’s over, I think if they never win another while I live, I’m cool with six....

but this whole “will he/won’t he” has been so tedious and annoying that I just want it done with. If he’s back, cool. If he’s not, thanks for the 6, and who is next?


well then you will be in for a treat when we get to the dead part of the offseason (post-draft) when there's no reason to follow the sport at all for a few months

Just coordinate it where Brady goes to SF and Garoppolo goes back to NE.

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 5:03 PM
That’s the hot rumor. You know how I feel about that.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 5:19 PM
Getting Jimmy G back would be the best possible solution. It would be perfect for Brady to get to play for his hometown team and us to get back the prince who was promised. I don't see it happening - but if the Niners want to swap out Jimmy for a couple years of Brady, I'm all for it.

BGMaverick
March 5th, 2020, 5:29 PM
Getting Jimmy G back would be the best possible solution. It would be perfect for Brady to get to play for his hometown team and us to get back the prince who was promised. I don't see it happening - but if the Niners want to swap out Jimmy for a couple years of Brady, I'm all for it.

As Caito knows, I think it's a bold strategy from SF's perspective to go for Brady, but I can't fault the logic in.

Percussion
March 5th, 2020, 5:38 PM
Brady/9ers vs Jimmy G/Pats Super Bowl..

It's so preposterously good as a storyline.

Fanny Batter
March 5th, 2020, 5:47 PM
Would Brady be an upgrade for the 49ers at this point? I can see why we'd take him over Tannehill, considering the possibility that he's a one season wonder like Flacco or whatever, and Henry's the carthorse, but there's a reason they paid Jimmy. They got to the Super Bowl last year. Players seem to like him. A young core group of players growing together. Doesn't sound too plausible to me. I still think he stays in New England, and they go and get OBJ or a Mike Evans for him.

BGMaverick
March 5th, 2020, 5:56 PM
Would Brady be an upgrade for the 49ers at this point? I can see why we'd take him over Tannehill, considering the possibility that he's a one season wonder like Flacco or whatever, and Henry's the carthorse, but there's a reason they paid Jimmy. They got to the Super Bowl last year. Players seem to like him. A young core group of players growing together. Doesn't sound too plausible to me. I still think he stays in New England, and they go and get OBJ or a Mike Evans for him.

My working theory is that the Niners (Shanahan) are undercutting themselves with their assessment of Garoppolo. Is he great? No. Is still someone who can develop? Yes, but not a ton. He can be a guy that leads a team to the Super Bowl and win because they almost did it. I did not buy into the narrative that they made it to the Super Bowl despite him that was being played up leading towards that game but the actions of that game did feed into that narrative. The fact of the matter is everything could be radically flipped if he wasn't 4-5 yards off from Sanders on that bomb in the fourth. Literally everything could be different. The Niners got conservative going into half and we're content to play it safe (which was stupid against KC) until they lucked into some momentum. It feels like they rightfully were depending on their scheme and run game but he didn't fully trust Garoppolo for larger chunks of their playoff run and even within the last game. Shanahan might have gotten burned by it in some ways. So if the trajectory of a team in today's landscape is maybe 2-3 years and Shanahan is on the verge of nuking his reputation, he might take a chance and leave no stone unturned by getting someone he knows he can trust because the dude has done it so many times.

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 5:57 PM
If SF really gets Brady, and they don’t win a SB in the next 2 years before he retires, Shanahan is fired. Not even a question.

Fro
March 5th, 2020, 6:00 PM
If SF really gets Brady, and they don’t win a SB in the next 2 years before he retires, Shanahan is fired. Not even a question.

I have a question or two. I mean lets say that happens and he makes it to the next two Super Bowls but loses them both. In my opinion you don't possibly consider firing a coach who gets you to 3 straight super bowls.

Which is just to say, your hyperbole here is exaggerated greatly beyond reality.

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 6:02 PM
My hyperbole is greatly exaggerated only in that exact scenario.


But let’s say that does play out. Shanahan gets his team to theee Super Bowls in a row, loses them all. You telling me there won’t be questioning as to if he is the right coach. 3 shots at the title and no win?

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 6:04 PM
Especially in this era of “what have you done for me lately” and “win now”.


Never mind the young players that are currently on team friendly deals, and probably won’t be able to afford them in 2-3 years time.

Rancid_Planet
March 5th, 2020, 6:13 PM
They could fire him. SF ownership wants another ring bad and they keep getting close, just missing the ring, and then they tear down and start over with a new coach/new qb.

That being said it seems like they really like Shanahan so I'd doubt they fire him before they let him try a different qb.

If this all comes to fruition I'd shit. Skip Bayless actually tweeted out before the SB was over that's exactly what they should do and it seemed like such a silly Skip thing to say for attention.

But there is logic there. The question is, if Brady leaves the Pats, does he want to stay in the AFC so he can really rub it in Bill's face?

Caito
March 5th, 2020, 6:20 PM
Only place he would prob go in the AFC East is Miami, and their heart is set on Tua, with prob Fitzpatrick as the in-between.

Chris Scott
March 6th, 2020, 8:26 AM
no but we are a mere 11 days away from the legal tampering window. get hyped.

Yeah it’ll still run way over those 11 days.

What’s the situation then. Is it contract time? Money? Bill think its time to move on?

Fro
March 6th, 2020, 10:35 AM
Yeah it’ll still run way over those 11 days.

What’s the situation then. Is it contract time? Money? Bill think its time to move on?

let me reach out to Tom via twitter and get back to you

Caito
March 6th, 2020, 1:08 PM
Try Instagram.

Chris Scott
March 6th, 2020, 2:03 PM
let me reach out to Tom via twitter and get back to you

Ok what’s the rumoured report over in cheat land?

Fro
March 6th, 2020, 2:26 PM
Ok what’s the rumoured report over in cheat land?

Sorry man I know you want these details to get your Brady news fix but I honestly haven’t seen any rumors or gossip for you about contract specifics in terms of dollar amounts or length.

Caito
March 6th, 2020, 3:05 PM
The last rumored report was there was a phone call between Bill and Tom this week, and said phone call didn’t go great.


Who are the sources on that, who knows, but my opinion is it comes from the Brady camp.

BGMaverick
March 6th, 2020, 3:12 PM
The last rumored report was there was a phone call between Bill and Tom this week, and said phone call didn’t go great.


Who are the sources on that, who knows, but my opinion is it comes from the Brady camp.

Neither guy is going to have a camp that's abundant in terms of relaying this type of information to the media but Tom stands to benefit more, in my opinion, if it comes out that the discussion didn't go well. That's how I generally try to identify where a source came from.

Chris Scott
March 6th, 2020, 7:12 PM
The last rumored report was there was a phone call between Bill and Tom this week, and said phone call didn’t go great.


Who are the sources on that, who knows, but my opinion is it comes from the Brady camp.

Open division for our division next season then.

Caito
March 7th, 2020, 10:40 AM
Probably. Without Brady though, I think the Bills would be the favorite.

Chris Scott
March 7th, 2020, 11:08 AM
Yeah I’d agree with that.

Fro
March 7th, 2020, 1:10 PM
I respectfully disagree

Fanny Batter
March 7th, 2020, 1:18 PM
Yeah, old Bill's not going to enter the season with a playoff ready team and have a scrub under centre. If it's not Brady, it'll be somebody very capable with a good chance of winning in a stable, well coached team - Andy Dalton, Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Tannehill etc. The Bills might pip them based on being one of the steadily improving organisations in the league, but it won't be because New England will dramatically taper off in Brady's absence.

BGMaverick
March 7th, 2020, 3:54 PM
A Brady-less Patriots compared to the Bills remains a push to me until I see who the QB actually is. Just based off perception and not seeing things playing out yet, I'll give the nod to the Patriots if its someone like Bridgewater or maybe Tannehill. If it's a tier down like Dalton or Mariotta, I'm not so sure. If they go all in on Stidham, color me super suspicious.

Caito
March 7th, 2020, 5:31 PM
If Brady isn’t signing, i don’t think you’re getting anybody as expensive as Bridgewater in. Even Tannehill’s price went up.

I think it’s more likely someone is signed on the cheap, a QB is drafted, and Bill resets for a year, maybe two.

Rancid_Planet
March 8th, 2020, 1:58 AM
If Brady isn’t signing, i don’t think you’re getting anybody as expensive as Bridgewater in. Even Tannehill’s price went up.

I think it’s more likely someone is signed on the cheap, a QB is drafted, and Bill resets for a year, maybe two.

What resetting? The man can field a winner with Matt Cassel.

Matt...Cassel.

BGMaverick
March 8th, 2020, 2:36 AM
What resetting? The man can field a winner with Matt Cassel.

Matt...Cassel.

The better argument, to me, would be the start to the '16 season. Enough has changed to the state of the game from the '08 season you're mentioning to kind of nullify the trajectory of the QB in that season. Not so much for the scheming by Belichick but I think QB play has improved dramatically since then. For '16, you had two different quarterbacks play, and both of them are still starters in the league.

Matthew
March 8th, 2020, 7:25 AM
wow still talking about a team that will just be a footnote on the bills superbowl season

Caito
March 8th, 2020, 8:51 AM
The start of the 16 season also had more weapons on it. As of right now, no tight end. One receiver they trust. A guy going into his second year, most of his rookie season he is out on injury. A veteran in Sanu that was rather disappointing while here. And a rushing game that took a rather large step back this year.


As of right now, they do not have a team that wins the division without Brady. Maybe with this extra wild card spot they get in, but I don’t think it’s close to a guarantee.

Fanny Batter
March 8th, 2020, 9:46 AM
What's the perception on how well Brady can actually perform next season though? A high level of production is unprecedented at his advanced age. Yet he is only 13 months removed from a world championship. Is the belief that the team failed due to production at wide receiver, or that Brady dropped off? The likelihood is that it's a combination of both, but have Gronk's retirement, Edelman's injuries and Gordon and AB being Gordon and AB perhaps given Brady an out for not being the player he was?

BGMaverick
March 8th, 2020, 11:58 AM
What's the perception on how well Brady can actually perform next season though? A high level of production is unprecedented at his advanced age. Yet he is only 13 months removed from a world championship. Is the belief that the team failed due to production at wide receiver, or that Brady dropped off? The likelihood is that it's a combination of both, but have Gronk's retirement, Edelman's injuries and Gordon and AB being Gordon and AB perhaps given Brady an out for not being the player he was?

There also wasn't a running game that had to be respected to a high degree. I would think the rational perception is he hit some regression but the lack of production around him was more of the issue.

Caito
March 8th, 2020, 2:18 PM
Was both. There were plenty of throws last year that you saw him miss that you sat back and said “Brady doesn’t miss those.”

There was also subpar production from receivers.

NE’s defense hid a lot of offensive problems the first 9 weeks or so. Eventually they played better teams though and no matter how well the D played, the offense simply couldn’t do enough to win games they absolutely had to win.

Fro
March 9th, 2020, 4:46 PM
Forget the Brady stuff, this CBA is the real story of the offseason. The vote is now due by Saturday at dusk. The more I read the more I'm still in the camp that the players should vote no. I'm really rooting for them to shoot this down and go back to the table. The owners are dickheads. Give them the 50/50 revenue split if you want 17 games.

I've seen it written that if there is a work stoppage, the NFL would get replacement players. They did it in '87 and they'd do it again. I'd love to see that clusterfuck in this the age of the internet. I really don't know what would happen in the court of public opinion if it came to that. I'd like to think fans would have the players' backs but truthfully most fans are dickheads too and would probably just want the product back on their screens at any cost to the players.

BGMaverick
March 9th, 2020, 4:48 PM
The narrative is already in place from the perspective of the owners and the things that would be improving for the players. The players would have to do a job of stating their case in the court of public opinion to express why it is in their best interest to take away what the paying audience loves. I doubt they would do that effectively.

Percussion
March 9th, 2020, 6:41 PM
Forget the Brady stuff, this CBA is the real story of the offseason. The vote is now due by Saturday at dusk. The more I read the more I'm still in the camp that the players should vote no. I'm really rooting for them to shoot this down and go back to the table. The owners are dickheads. Give them the 50/50 revenue split if you want 17 games.

I've seen it written that if there is a work stoppage, the NFL would get replacement players. They did it in '87 and they'd do it again. I'd love to see that clusterfuck in this the age of the internet. I really don't know what would happen in the court of public opinion if it came to that. I'd like to think fans would have the players' backs but truthfully most fans are dickheads too and would probably just want the product back on their screens at any cost to the players.

The players are spoiled overpaid brats who need to just shut up and play ball.

Stop kneeling, stop bitching, stop being ingrates and play ball.

At least the xfl players actually play for the love of football. I can just watch them instead.

This is what I imagine a large portion of fans saying if a work stoppage occurs..

Pablo Diablo
March 9th, 2020, 6:48 PM
You had me in the first half

Caito
March 9th, 2020, 7:30 PM
If the players are spoiled overpaid brats (millionaires) what does that say about owners, who a decent amount of fans prob feel are spoiled and greedy individuals (billionaires).

Rancid_Planet
March 10th, 2020, 12:08 AM
The players are spoiled overpaid brats who need to just shut up and play ball.

Stop kneeling, stop bitching, stop being ingrates and play ball.

At least the xfl players actually play for the love of football. I can just watch them instead.

This is what I imagine a large portion of fans saying if a work stoppage occurs..

They will totally say those things.

But also, fuck em. Who cares? There is only one NFL and they'll come back as soon as the football players do because ain't nobody watching scrub football in this day and age.

Everyone is a fantasy fan. Nobody gives a fuck about the team anymore.

BGMaverick
March 10th, 2020, 12:55 AM
I mean, people already (at much smaller scale) watch scrub football today. If it's the only thing there, people will watch it because they need their fill of football. The leverage is going to shrink for both sides but it'll fall at a more precipitous rate for the players and they'll be in danger of taking a worse deal than what's available now if they go the route of a work stoppage. I just don't see a work stoppage happening. There's stars and they likely don't want the rigors of more potential games but they're likely outnumbered by the "common folk" of the league and that majority needs the money and opportunities more.

Rancid_Planet
March 11th, 2020, 3:18 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/Article/Tom-Brady-NFL-free-agency-Titans-not-all-in-New-England-Patriots-144835584/Amp/

Hoping this is the case. Brady needs to finish in New England. Titans need to make Ryan a good offer and get this thing moving forward.



The latest comes from Dianna Russini of ESPN, who said a potential suitor -- the Tennessee Titans -- are not “all-in” on signing the future Hall of Famer.

“In terms of Brady’s interest in playing in Nashville, he certainly would love that opportunity, but from what I can gather, it does not seem like the Titans are all in on Tom Brady,” she reported.

“I think every team has to be open minded to Tom Brady, they have to have that conversation. I just think that they’re more committed to making it work with Ryan Tannehill than they are Tom Brady.”

Fro
March 11th, 2020, 1:47 PM
Very informative report by Dianna with insightful new information that changes how I look at the Brady free agency landscape.

Not.

5 days til the tamper window.