All Elite Wrestling

[MTR]

It's certainly a test balloon for a third hour of Dynamite. It'll be better than the Power Slap thingy, one would hope.

A cable provider shows it (FD2) is on their books for June 24 FWIW

Yeah I remembered you saying that in the group chat last night.

I don't want Dynamite to go to three hours. Two is good and the hour on Friday is fine not counting the youtube shows.

I will watch this show the first week at least to see what it is exactly is and format.

[Donald]

We need an AEW/WWE Forbidden Door!

[BGMaverick]

Yeah I remembered you saying that in the group chat last night.

I don't want Dynamite to go to three hours. Two is good and the hour on Friday is fine not counting the youtube shows.

I will watch this show the first week at least to see what it is exactly is and format.

I don't think anyone other than the talent would want to oversaturate things by going three hours but
- they have the talent to do it
- the money will matter

[MTR]

They do have the talent in part because he went out and gathered too much talent at one point before deciding to be more selective. Which is why he has so many people on Dark and Dark Elevation that we never fucking see on Dynamite or Rampage.

[Nash Diesel]

I mean the only reason WWE has a 3rd hour of Raw is for the ad revenue. If AEW did go 3 hours, it would suck but maybe they'd be getting some extra $$$.

I thought the first Forbidden Door ppv was alright. This was the start of AEW's downfall these last 7-8 months. Plus it showed AEW is just like every other non-WWE promotion. Oh we gotta get that New Japan co-promotion event like WCW, ROH, etc. Boring.

[Donald]

Dynamite back over 1,000,000 vieweres. Wonder how many of them are dumbfucks like me who tuned in to see Tony's annoucnment.

[Morrison]

yeah that announcement was lame.

I was hoping for the Forbidden Door announcement which should be coming because you know they are doing it again.

rumor is FD2 is gonna be in the tokyo dome, but they are waiting for confirmation of the venue's availability or something, which is why nothing has been said yet.

[Nash Diesel]

Dynamite back over 1,000,000 vieweres. Wonder how many of them are dumbfucks like me who tuned in to see Tony's annoucnment.

I think everyone was tuning in to see Evil Uno v. Jon Moxley.

[MTR]

I think everyone was tuning in to see Evil Uno v. Jon Moxley.

I mean I was. I can't get enough of Jon Moxley bleeding like a stuck pig when you look at him funny....

[MTR]

rumor is FD2 is gonna be in the tokyo dome, but they are waiting for confirmation of the venue's availability or something, which is why nothing has been said yet.

I thought Khan said that more than likely it wouldn't happen in Japan because the buys would be down because of the time difference and when it would air live here in the states.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm shocked he even cares about buys he sure as shit doesn't care about ratings gassing up people like a million is a huge number even by today's standards. Imagine if we applied that same positive reaction to Raw getting a 1.8 or Smackdown getting a 2.2.

[Donald]

They should do a 2 location type event, like WrestleMania 2. An event in Japan and an event here.

[MTR]

I think it would only be fair to do the show in Japan this time around. Just sounded like they were not looking to do it this time but seems reports are saying otherwise.

[Nash Diesel]

I know the show would sell out but I'm just curious what kind of presence AEW has. The upside is they have a lot of wrestlers who have worked for New Japan, quite a few top tier guys like Omega for example. I just wonder if they would ever do a small tour over there.

[MTR]

For those that care AEW won a bunch of wrestling observer awards or something. seems to be the buzz on twitter or something.

[Nash Diesel]

For those that care AEW won a bunch of wrestling observer awards or something. seems to be the buzz on twitter or something.

My daughter was named student of the week for her spanish class.

[MTR]

My daughter was named student of the week for her spanish class.

That is fantastic and way better than any of these "awards" that AEW won.

[Peter Griffin]

Any awards that put WWE as worse than a company with Btodus clay as world champion has zero credibility.

[MTR]

Yeah CYN should have been named worse company. But yeah you can tell the voters were very biased towards AEW and against WWE.

To be honest at first I was not a fan of Tyrus at NWA champ but you have to admit with him being on Fox News and what not the title is getting more exposure than it has in a long time. I mean I don't think he is like world champion but material but they are making it work for them.

[Peter Griffin]

I mean if fox news is your audience then good luck

[Badger]

Mox/Evil Uno was not too shabby but I’m still waiting for the day Khan gets some self-awareness (could’ve probably stopped this here) but then Mox as well and Khan books him in a First Blood match for a laugh.

[Donald]

WWE turned things around by mid year but perhaps the awfulness of the first 6 months far outweighed the turn around months.

[Badger]

It’s hard and nigh impossible to objectively say which months were better than others really. There’s so much out there to catch-up with the social media content that Nielsen boxes barely matter.

That aside, I’ve said this before and always will do until things change…Both companies have their faults but personally still a fan of both. AEW can be great at the long storyline development when it’s a big angle and even enjoy the bump/spot fests once in a while. However they are guilty of putting on those fests on TV for little rhyme and reason plus with such a bloated roster they can spread themselves too thin. WWE also have a bloated roster but also big advantages on purely being a known brand, allotted weekly TV time, production costs and personally think they have the edge on storyline development. They are also guilty of at times letting things drag on a bit and play the rematch card in feuds too often.

[Dreyski]

Mox/Evil Uno was not too shabby but I’m still waiting for the day Khan gets some self-awareness (could’ve probably stopped this here) but then Mox as well and Khan books him in a First Blood match for a laugh.

Ironically he would have won tonight…Uno’s blade job might have been the worst I’ve seen since Guerrero’s vs JBL. Definitely hit something he didn’t intend to.

[Dreyski]

And Jeff Jarrett has no business winning a battle royale in 2023.

[Badger]

And Jeff Jarrett has no business winning a battle royale in 2023.

He has the stroke (pun intended, you know me).

As far as Evil Uno goes, yeah possibly lol. Jokes aside, he’s one of cogs in the system that deserves more credit than he gets but in such a big pond even after that showing will likely still be a jobber to the stars. I’d love to be proven wrong on that and have him be more of a feature but just can’t see him being more.

[Donald]

He's one of the cogs in the full gear.

[Badger]

He's one of the cogs in the full gear.

If Da Party wanted to include a fifth in their Uno games….well they should already be playing Uno with Uno.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah CYN should have been named worse company. But yeah you can tell the voters were very biased towards AEW and against WWE.

To be honest at first I was not a fan of Tyrus at NWA champ but you have to admit with him being on Fox News and what not the title is getting more exposure than it has in a long time. I mean I don't think he is like world champion but material but they are making it work for them.

I can't admit that because I don't know how true that is. Did he put more eyes on the NWA when he was carrying around the North American title on Fox News?

And as it was said, if you're trying to draw in that fuckin audience holy shit...I mean to be honest if you're aware of NWA you are probably already a Hannity freak. But yeah, I think that argument is just people trying to be nice. I just say be honest, it's the NWA. Brodus Clay was on WWE tv more recently than the guy he beat for the belt who looked like 15lbs of shit in a 3lbs bag. Just cuz Trevor Murdoch looks like Dick Murdoch, a guy who was never World champ btw, doesn't mean he is that guy. Mason Ryan isn't getting cast as Drax anytime soon.


He has the stroke (pun intended, you know me).

As far as Evil Uno goes, yeah possibly lol. Jokes aside, he’s one of cogs in the system that deserves more credit than he gets but in such a big pond even after that showing will likely still be a jobber to the stars. I’d love to be proven wrong on that and have him be more of a feature but just can’t see him being more.

Yeah in terms of why this company isn't really growing he doesn't get the credit he deserves lol. Fuckin sucks.

[Badger]

I can't admit that because I don't know how true that is. Did he put more eyes on the NWA when he was carrying around the North American title on Fox News?

And as it was said, if you're trying to draw in that fuckin audience holy shit...I mean to be honest if you're aware of NWA you are probably already a Hannity freak. But yeah, I think that argument is just people trying to be nice. I just say be honest, it's the NWA. Brodus Clay was on WWE tv more recently than the guy he beat for the belt who looked like 15lbs of shit in a 3lbs bag. Just cuz Trevor Murdoch looks like Dick Murdoch, a guy who was never World champ btw, doesn't mean he is that guy. Mason Ryan isn't getting cast as Drax anytime soon.



Yeah in terms of why this company isn't really growing he doesn't get the credit he deserves lol. Fuckin sucks.

Nash in hating Dark Order shocker lol.

All I’m saying is he’s been a solid hand that deserves more credit for his role in putting people over, not calling for a big push or anything

[Donald]

Does he really put people over? Looks like he wins way more than he loses.

[Badger]

Does he really put people over? Looks like he wins way more than he loses.

Don’t watch Dark or Elevation but on TV not that much that I’ve noticed lately. He’s usually taking an asskicking and/or putting bigger stars over. Need people like that too.

[Donald]

Why does he wear a mask. Is he ugly? Why is he Evil Uno if he's from Canada? He should at least be Evil Un.

[Nash Diesel]

Nash in hating Dark Order shocker lol.

All I’m saying is he’s been a solid hand that deserves more credit for his role in putting people over, not calling for a big push or anything

Being a jabroni isn't putting people over. Sure, he LOSES a lot and we need people to win but nobody has ever EVER came out of anything Dark Order related for the better after beating one of them. IDC what member we're talking about. People confuse doing the job with putting people over. If anything, Moxley put Uno over by having this absurdly competitive match-which is all too common out of Moxley and other top guys in AEW. Not everyone the roster needs to be able to almost beat each other at any given chance.

Dark Order, especially Evil Uno, are only there for one reason and one reason only. Do I have to say it?

[Nash Diesel]

Why does he wear a mask. Is he ugly? Why is he Evil Uno if he's from Canada? He should at least be Evil Un.

You didn't follow his illustrious career as one half of the Super Smash Brothers when he was simply known as "PLAYER Uno"? LOL

See, there was a time where a couple French Canadians confused English and Espanol so that's where we get El Generico and "Uno"

[Badger]

Evil Uno with an actual Uno gimmick would be hilarious. Like he plays a reversal card, he reverses a move. He plays a 7 he swaps positions with his opponent etc.

[Nash Diesel]

Evil Uno with an actual Uno gimmick would be hilarious. Like he plays a reversal card, he reverses a move. He plays a 7 he swaps positions with his opponent etc.

I mean AEW has had South Park Jesus and Scooby Doo make a cameo so why not? I suck at Uno. My kids are Rainman when it comes to that shit.

[Mazer]

EVIL UNO STILL HAS ONE CARD TO PLAY!

"THEY'RE EXCHANGING CHOPS! BUT UNO SKIPS MOX'S TURN!"

He should also start using the Figure Four, but refer to it as the WILD DRAW 4.

[Donald]

What makes him evil? Has he done something naughty?

[Mazer]

He plays Uno by the exact rules, and doesn't allow for home variants. Every time someone deviates from the instructions that come with the box, he makes them draw two cards.


Evil incarnate.

[Nash Diesel]

The Dark Order as a concept is intriguing like many "cult" gimmicks. There's only a few ways you can go but they're all pretty good. But IMHO, the shit seemed like it was booked with the idea that Matt Hardy was going to come over and be the "higher power". Instead it was Luke Harper aka Brodie Lee and I never bought into it. I didn't like the McMahon-isms, I didn't like how it felt lazy (Dude went from being the right hand man of a cult leader to having his own in the B-Leagues-how TNA of you)

They became more comedy than anything which didn't feel like the original direction. Kind of like New Day was supposed to be borderline NOD but transitioned into a comedy act. Only the DO was nothing like the ND.

The potential was there. Imagine Jake the Snake being revealed as the leader. Imagine people of worth being part of it.

[Donald]

Eddie "Kofi" Kingston quit AEW, but this just means he will be in ROH moving forward.

[MTR]

Pretty much. He worked the ROH tapings and is going after Claudio

[BGMaverick]

The trios build feels absolutely wasteful, considering who is involved.

The only thing interesting me in Revolution is Texas Death and the finish to Bryan/MJF.

[Donald]

You're not excited to see Jeff Jarrett wrestle on PPV in 2023?

[MTR]

The trios build feels absolutely wasteful, considering who is involved.

The only thing interesting me in Revolution is Texas Death and the finish to Bryan/MJF.

There should have been a better build to the trios. I agree with that.

I am interested in the finish of the MJF/Danielson match

I am interested in the women's title match.

Don't give a shit about the tag title match despite the fact I am a fan of Orange and Danhausen. No real reason for them to be in it. And lets be real and stop with the Lethal and Jarret team already. I like that group but we don't need Lethal and Jarrett in the tag title picture.

Mildly interested in TNT match. I am over the Moxley/Page stuff and don't really care to see them bleed buckets. Don't care about Starts and Jericho. Mildly interested in Cage and Perry but that could have been a Dynamite match probably even though in theory it is a blow off.

[Nash Diesel]

Unless you're one of those brainwashed AEW types I don't see how anyone could be invested in the upcoming ppv beyond "It should be a good match"

That's where we're at when it comes to every non-WWE promotion out there and it's kind of sad. We used to want that emotional investment and this wasn't exclusive to WWE by any means. AEW a year ago was on the cusp of really putting on some magical stuff here and now it's like, well, at least we still have good matches. And what company DOESN'T have good matches consistently? The standards are so fucking low these days you got Danhausen getting a fuckin Road Warrior pop for 2 guys eliminating themselves because his baby arms couldnt' do the job lol.

[Nash Diesel]

At least we don't have to see Adam Cole (insert forced bay bay).

I think right now all we can hope for is AEW closing down and something else comes out of it 4-5 months later lol. Seriously. This shit is sad to watch and around here I'm probably their biggest supporter.

[NeseToTheFace]

I think last time I checked in on AEW Danhausen was trying to be pals with Hook. Now he's teamed up with Orange Cassidy?

Saraya and Toni are heels teamed up now too? How's that working out? By the end of the year everyone may have turned more times than Big Show.

I'm looking for something to get interested in with AEW but from what I read here it seems pretty bleak.

[MTR]

Danhausen has been part of Best Friends from the start and hangs out with Orange, Chuck and Trent. The Hook thing was very short lived.

I am not digging the Saraya and Toni turn but I understand why they did it. Hayter was organically becoming a face so do the switch. There really isn't that many turns going on.

There is some interesting stuff but there is a lot of just meh stuff going on. I am huge fan and I admit that this is not the best card

[Donald]

Doubt Daniel Bryan wins this one. MJF is too early in his reign. Perhaps a returning Punk could be the one to dethrone MJF.

[Nash Diesel]

Doubt Daniel Bryan wins this one. MJF is too early in his reign. Perhaps a returning Punk could be the one to dethrone MJF.

There's a part of me that thinks he could possibly lose. He's been champ about 3-4 months. That Von Erich movie doesn't come out for awhile so he could drop it and then win it back in time to promote that movie.

The other part of me thinks that the time to get Danielson the belt was against Page and we could've had Punk take the strap off him instead. That shipped sailed, and I think so has Danielson being AEW World champion. But as we know with many promoters, when something seems too obvious they flip it up. If they're so high on having a million viewers a week (WOO HOO!) maybe keeping it on MJF would be smart. Do the fans really want him to lose? IDK.

[Donald]

I'd like to see MJF get heat without resorting to personal attacks and edgy material. Oh no, he mentioned Daniel Bryan's children. The devil.

[Nash Diesel]

I'd like to see MJF get heat without resorting to personal attacks and edgy material. Oh no, he mentioned Daniel Bryan's children. The devil.

Yeah it feels very forced but dude I just saw a video last night of MJF backing down from some fat dude with a finger pistol..........

[NeseToTheFace]

Danhausen has been part of Best Friends from the start and hangs out with Orange, Chuck and Trent. The Hook thing was very short lived.

I am not digging the Saraya and Toni turn but I understand why they did it. Hayter was organically becoming a face so do the switch. There really isn't that many turns going on.

There is some interesting stuff but there is a lot of just meh stuff going on. I am huge fan and I admit that this is not the best card

Thanks man this helps. I was a pretty regular follower about their first six months on TV, a little less, then a little less. Now it's mostly catching things in passing. Just happened to put it on last night for a few minutes but looked online at the PPV lineup and I had so many questions. I feel like the only things I know without watching are that Moxley will bleed every week and MJF will tell us he's better than us and we know it, and we'll get some "Cowboy shit" chants too.

[BGMaverick]

I'm looking for something to get interested in with AEW but from what I read here it seems pretty bleak.

Matches: Quite good
Build/Stories: Questionable (some make sense, a fair amount don't)

[MTR]

I want Danielson to win so bad but I don't think it happens because again we are early into MJF's reign much like we were early in Page's reign when Danielson challenged him. Kind of frustrating knowing he probably should go over but won't.

[Nash Diesel]

I want Danielson to win so bad but I don't think it happens because again we are early into MJF's reign much like we were early in Page's reign when Danielson challenged him. Kind of frustrating knowing he probably should go over but won't.

Here's my question and I'm torn on the answer: Does Bryan win gold in AEW? I feel like he will, but it'll be on some bullshit where he wants to elevate a title so it'd be like the All Pacific or whatever that shit is called. Or some random tag title run with Daniel Garcia later this year.

It's frustrating knowing that Adam Page shouldn't have been champion to begin with. I think when he pulled out of the ppv and they pivoted to Christian was the beginning of the end for AEW getting any bigger than they are. Adam Page is a mega forced main eventer, if this were WWE the audience would've turned on him being booked this way but since it's AEW we let it slide because they're a fucking pampered promotion by smarks. You can't say anything bad or they dicks go back in their shells.

[Morrison]

kenny's visa situation probably got in the way of some of the build for the trios match, which is unfortunate. that moment with the entrance last night was great and certainly has me feeling better about the match, but some more build like that would have been very welcome. the elite just got the titles back and it feels a bit early to switch them off to the HOB, even though they probably 'deserve' or 'need' them more than kenny and the bucks. i'd be happy with a HOB win and maybe a few follow up matches to flesh out the feud where the elite can't gain the titles back.

also feels like they may once again be attempting to move forward with the elite and hangman reunion that got kneecapped after all out. the elite and bcc have been kept away from each other, and they reintroduced the dark order and hangman friendship and tension recently, plus doing the easter egg stuff like the bucks sneakers being on a locker shelf behind hangman as he's doing a backstage promo. with bryan likely losing against mjf, a stable feud between the elite and bcc would be nice heading into the summer.

i'm looking forward to this ppv, some of the builds are whatever, but i know the matches will deliver. i really enjoy the mox/hangman stuff cause i'm not at all sick of blood and it's simple enough premise and they've both delivered great promos along the way. that tag title situation is just fucking weird. i was absolutely fine with the gunns beating the acclaimed. some of these titles could do with moving between opponents during feuds more often, and i think the tag titles are a good set to do that with. why these other teams are being shoehorned in, i don't understand.

[MTR]

Here's my question and I'm torn on the answer: Does Bryan win gold in AEW? I feel like he will, but it'll be on some bullshit where he wants to elevate a title so it'd be like the All Pacific or whatever that shit is called. Or some random tag title run with Daniel Garcia later this year.

It's frustrating knowing that Adam Page shouldn't have been champion to begin with. I think when he pulled out of the ppv and they pivoted to Christian was the beginning of the end for AEW getting any bigger than they are. Adam Page is a mega forced main eventer, if this were WWE the audience would've turned on him being booked this way but since it's AEW we let it slide because they're a fucking pampered promotion by smarks. You can't say anything bad or they dicks go back in their shells.

I didn't mind Page being champ but the time off he took cooled off his run and yeah I agree when he came back it seemed more forced to get him to the title and then yeah the reign just wasn't much.

I think Danielson will win the world title at some point. Just not sure when. Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in a tag title reign as well before it is all said and done.

[Nash Diesel]

I didn't mind Page being champ but the time off he took cooled off his run and yeah I agree when he came back it seemed more forced to get him to the title and then yeah the reign just wasn't much.

I think Danielson will win the world title at some point. Just not sure when. Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in a tag title reign as well before it is all said and done.

If they had put the belt on Page when they wanted to by the time Danielson arrived you could've put it on him. There's also the fact that Tony Khan, by his own admission, books so far in advance and doesn't really stray from the path until recently. But we see the results. The hotshotting of the World title, it wasn't that great but what can you do? I still think that the loss of CM Punk has completely derailed their momentum. Mox isn't a guy who can take the company to the next level but he at least made it enjoyable.

[Donald]

If they had put the belt on Page when they wanted to by the time Danielson arrived you could've put it on him. There's also the fact that Tony Khan, by his own admission, books so far in advance and doesn't really stray from the path until recently. But we see the results. The hotshotting of the World title, it wasn't that great but what can you do? I still think that the loss of CM Punk has completely derailed their momentum. Mox isn't a guy who can take the company to the next level but he at least made it enjoyable.

Surely they had injuries/childbirth/people quitting scenarios in the e-feds Tony used. He should expect that.

[MTR]

If they had put the belt on Page when they wanted to by the time Danielson arrived you could've put it on him. There's also the fact that Tony Khan, by his own admission, books so far in advance and doesn't really stray from the path until recently. But we see the results. The hotshotting of the World title, it wasn't that great but what can you do? I still think that the loss of CM Punk has completely derailed their momentum. Mox isn't a guy who can take the company to the next level but he at least made it enjoyable.

Yeah had Page gotten the title sooner then when Danielson comes in then you can totally make the switch. I like that they don't move the title around a lot until injuries and such caused some hotshotting last summer. That is what it is. You work with what you are dealt. It wasn't all bad. Not all good but not all bad either. lol

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah had Page gotten the title sooner then when Danielson comes in then you can totally make the switch. I like that they don't move the title around a lot until injuries and such caused some hotshotting last summer. That is what it is. You work with what you are dealt. It wasn't all bad. Not all good but not all bad either. lol

What made it bad is that Punk got hurt again so there was no continuation to justify these weak short reigns.

[mth]

https://scontent.fyyc3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/334218683_723204002838542_6212656395708199334_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=7R4XQePiMZcAX-ALmRk&_nc_ht=scontent.fyyc3-1.fna&oh=00_AfCCw1vNecTwW90fBcqtWZfBZix2-XgDVVVza7v_crykKg&oe=640692EE

[Donald]

I knew you were Spudz!

[mth]

ew god no

[Badger]

I knew you were Spudz!

The plot thickens as well as Jon Morley’s blood!

[Nash Diesel]

I wonder how the pro blood fans would feel about the long stretch where like every Raw, Smackdown, and ppv main event had blood. Ruthless Aggression Era. I wonder if Moxley was like, I want to be the RA Era Triple H in AEW!! The Attitude Era, not really any better. It's funny how sour I was toward WWE going out of their way to talk about no more blood like it was 1990 all over again. But then you start to realize how you know what, even though every match should probably have blood if we're trying to be "real" but it's not needed as much as we thought.

Speaking of "real"...Any update on Anna Jay?

[Badger]

I wonder how the pro blood fans would feel about the long stretch where like every Raw, Smackdown, and ppv main event had blood. Ruthless Aggression Era. I wonder if Moxley was like, I want to be the RA Era Triple H in AEW!! The Attitude Era, not really any better. It's funny how sour I was toward WWE going out of their way to talk about no more blood like it was 1990 all over again. But then you start to realize how you know what, even though every match should probably have blood if we're trying to be "real" but it's not needed as much as we thought.

Speaking of "real"...Any update on Anna Jay?

He wasn’t a good fit for WWE, never was despite his success in the Shield and all that. He probably felt restrained that WWE wouldn’t let him go out and be all lunatic and bleeding for years (and iirc there was a possible Foley angle that was shut down). AEW though lets him bleed like one presses a button for hot water. He could have been an even bigger success and over in WWE if he wanted but he just seems to be one of those “purists” (if that’s the right term) that wants no filter, complete control, bleed all over the place like he’s an indy wrestler. He is a success but I think he could have been even bigger if he toned it down/had a filter maybe. But he wants to go all out and do his own shit with blood which seems fine for him but not everyone likes that. Maybe just stubborn I guess.

No idea on Anna Jay.

[Peter Griffin]

As it happens I'm currently listening to the Mox audio book.

The Foley angle wasn't shot down , it ended because Mick couldn't get cleared. And his issues with WWE never had anything to do with wanting to bleed all the time, rather the over production and scripted promos.

[Badger]

As it happens I'm currently listening to the Mox audio book.

The Foley angle wasn't shot down , it ended because Mick couldn't get cleared. And his issues with WWE never had anything to do with wanting to bleed all the time, rather the over production and scripted promos.

Fair enough about the Foley angle, that can’t be helped if that was the case. Still though I think he could’ve been a bigger success and can be if he could work restricted without bleeding all the time. The overproduction/scripted angle isn’t a new complaint and he can cut a promo but he still could do much better if he toned down. Promo-wise maybe more freedom now but could still work better matches instead of making everything a bloody struggle.

Foley himself put his body on the line but he made it epic and he admits he could’ve toned it down. Moxley bleeds for the sake of it and probably could work within the confines but chooses not to.

The bigger question I suppose here really is…despite more freedom, longer title reigns and being able to bleed and do what he wants now is…is he a bigger success now than what he could’ve been? WWE confines and all, I think he could have been bigger with more exposure to a worldwide audience if he worked with the confines. He could have been the Sami working against the Bloodline now for example.

[hithit]

Anyone else watching Revolution?

[Donald]

I'm watching fast and furious: Tokyo drift

[Defrost]

Holy shit that match was amazing

[Morrison]

Holy shit that match was amazing

if it wasn't for will/kenny, easily would be match of the year.

[Defrost]

if it wasn't for will/kenny, easily would be match of the year.

The quality of wrestling this year has been absurd. I have four 5 star matches already this year. Will and Kenny is the best match, but now this match. Okada vs Shingo was amazing, and Okada vs Kaito might be my favorite match this year.

[Morrison]

that has to be my absolute favorite hour long iron man match. this ppv was ridiculous.

[Defrost]

That show was up there with any PPV ever really

Wrestling has been insanely good this year.

[Badger]

Great show. Trios, Texas Death match and the Iron Man match in particular delivered. Clever ending to that one too.

[Murphy]

What a show. That hour flew by in the main event. Guessed it was going overtime though, as I watched the next day and there was an hour and 10 left at bell time.

Going in, not too bothered by storylines or programmes, but what a card. Jericho and Starks, for example, couldn't really care less going in, but they delivered and the right man won. Big win for Ricky. Would like to see the TNT Title in his future.

Trios, Page and Mox and the main were excellent. The end to the women's triple threat was a little flat, but still a fun match. And Joe and Wardlow was mildly disappointing, but I'm nitpicking! Top, top show.

[Nash Diesel]

Did I miss something pertaining to Wardlow and his relationship with Tony Khan? Dude has not been the same since he squashed MJF.

[MTR]

I thought we may be getting back on track with him regaining the belt but yeah nope.

[VHS]

Did I miss something pertaining to Wardlow and his relationship with Tony Khan? Dude has not been the same since he squashed MJF.

This has been the mindset of a lotta folks. Even some of the roster and crew are scratching their heads about it.

[Morrison]

felt like they booked themselves into a corner with having hobbs win the ladder match and having wardlow beat joe, and having the hobbs/wardlow match immediately after that win. you either beat hobbs clean, which feels like a waste, or you beat wardlow clean, which feels like another speed bump for the guy fucking with his momentum. if you add in shenanigans to keep the title on wardlow, why not just wait to have the match and build a storyline? i will say, the only worthwhile option is the one they went with, which is wardlow losing the title thanks to shenanigans. it's possible it gets him some sympathy and can avoid looking like he's an absolute chump. we'll see if it manages to do that. it was a rando ass finish, but i also didn't hate it. the whole 'belt and gear stolen out of wardlow's rental car,' whether legit or an angle from the get go, helps the story. they're setting it up as QT breaking in and stealing the title and his gear, wardlow during his promo mentions he was ready to beat some respect into hobbs in the ring but given he's now dressed for it, gets the match changed to no dq, falls count anywhere, which plays right into QT's hands. they were mentioning on commentary how QT was a man of his word and hobbs called in the favor QT owed him, so that makes it less random, whether it was hobbs setting up an insurance policy or QT doing this on his own cause he saw the opportunity.

given the length most of the title reigns in AEW tend to be, I'm kinda all for a title that changes hands a bit more often and within feuds. not every reign needs to be long and dominant or prestigious.

[Nash Diesel]

He's already been having an uphill battle with that stupid ass name. Then Braun Strowman returns and snakes part of his gimmick (the powerbombing of jabronis). Joe beats him for no good reason and then he wins it back only to job 3 days later to Ice Train II.

And I like Hobbs, but that guy is another damaged good. It's like when they threw the title on Scorpio Sky, for what reason? It did nothing for him and he was already a jabroni when he won it despite a long tag title run a few years prior.

Wardlow should be on deck for a feud with MJF unless CM Punk is coming back. Maybe that's why he lost the title....They wanted Hobbs to win it from a babyface so they took it off Joe and then had a guy who is set for a World title push drop it to the up and comer Hobbs.

[BGMaverick]

Juice Robinson seems like a guy that's going to be ROH instead of AEW so if Starks presumably heads that way, that feels like that cools him off a little.


felt like they booked themselves into a corner with having hobbs win the ladder match and having wardlow beat joe, and having the hobbs/wardlow match immediately after that win. you either beat hobbs clean, which feels like a waste, or you beat wardlow clean, which feels like another speed bump for the guy fucking with his momentum. if you add in shenanigans to keep the title on wardlow, why not just wait to have the match and build a storyline? i will say, the only worthwhile option is the one they went with, which is wardlow losing the title thanks to shenanigans. it's possible it gets him some sympathy and can avoid looking like he's an absolute chump. we'll see if it manages to do that. it was a rando ass finish, but i also didn't hate it. the whole 'belt and gear stolen out of wardlow's rental car,' whether legit or an angle from the get go, helps the story. they're setting it up as QT breaking in and stealing the title and his gear, wardlow during his promo mentions he was ready to beat some respect into hobbs in the ring but given he's now dressed for it, gets the match changed to no dq, falls count anywhere, which plays right into QT's hands. they were mentioning on commentary how QT was a man of his word and hobbs called in the favor QT owed him, so that makes it less random, whether it was hobbs setting up an insurance policy or QT doing this on his own cause he saw the opportunity.

given the length most of the title reigns in AEW tend to be, I'm kinda all for a title that changes hands a bit more often and within feuds. not every reign needs to be long and dominant or prestigious.

They really forced their hand by rushing through because it was a feud where the loser was in trouble because momentum was desperately needed for both guys. You control things so anything is possible, but I'm highly skeptical this will work out well for Wardlow, especially as a face.

I can see Jungle Boy eventually being next in line for the title.

[Nash Diesel]

ROH feels like WWECW now.

[Mazer]

I thought we may be getting back on track with him regaining the belt but yeah nope.

Are we all 100 that he doesn't interrupt MJF's bar mitzvah?


Or should I just assume that's going to be Adam Cole?

[Nash Diesel]

I swear to God if Adam Cole is next up for MJF I'm done. It's the same fuckin guys in the same scenarios. Tony is getting lazy, or complacent.

[Mazer]

I'm not sure that we've discussed enough the weird decisions that were made to follow-up a tremendous PPV with whatever the plan was for this week's Dynamite.


There was a LOT of JJ for a follow-up to one of their best PPVs.


Related to this, the Tony Khan All-Atlantic Shazam announcement scored in the 90s on the Unintentional Comedy Scale.

I mean, you wanna do WB a solid and help get Shazam to good box-office? There's an obvious answer. You book Jeff Jarrett in a title match. You're welcome Zachary Levi.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm not sure that we've discussed enough the weird decisions that were made to follow-up a tremendous PPV with whatever the plan was for this week's Dynamite.


There was a LOT of JJ for a follow-up to one of their best PPVs.


Related to this, the Tony Khan All-Atlantic Shazam announcement scored in the 90s on the Unintentional Comedy Scale.

I mean, you wanna do WB a solid and help get Shazam to good box-office? There's an obvious answer. You book Jeff Jarrett in a title match. You're welcome Zachary Levi.

Well considering this is probably the last we'll ever see of that Shazam, seems fitting. I still think the promo Hogan cut on Jarrett in TNA about Jarrett basically doing to guys like AJ Styles what Jarrett always claimed was being done to him by Hogan and others was spot on. Jeff Jarrett was a very good midcard IC champion type guy. People can blame Bischoff, Hogan, but TNA sucked before they showed up when Jeff kept putting the belt on himself. WCW was doing pretty good until Jeff came over in 1999 and Russo made him a main eventer. WCW was gone in a year. So mayyyyyybe the suits at TNT haven't forgotten what killed half the audience, it wasn't Arquette, it was this goof.

Honestly I didn't think this ppv was any better or worse than the last 10 or so. I didn't really care what happened next. I mean fuck, I thought were FINALLY done with Hangman v. Moxley...and now we have some weird feud with Dork Order and the Bullshit Combat Cucks. Are we to believe the BBC's are now heels? Dude I'll still boo the fuck out of Yuta but I'm not booing Mox and Cesaro for beating up Page.

[MTR]

ROH feels like WWECW now.

It does kind of have that feel.

[MTR]

Are we all 100 that he doesn't interrupt MJF's bar mitzvah?


Or should I just assume that's going to be Adam Cole?

I am going with Cole and Wardlow continues to feud with Hobbs

[Nash Diesel]

It does kind of have that feel.

Just the way they're piecing the roster together. I haven't watched anything yet, they might only be 1-2 shows in under the new regime. But just from the past couple shows where it was basically AEW production with supposed ROH talent and it looked odd. ROH doesn't need that bright ass lighting and fancy stages. Kills the vibe. We have Dalton Castle, he can light up the arena with his cape.

[MTR]

I haven't watched any ROH stuff because I am tapped on on paying for streaming services at the moment. If Khan would put AEW and ROH and ppvs on the streaming service then I would probably work it into the budget.

[Nash Diesel]

I haven't watched anything beyond the clips on Youtube or social media and that's all I need to know that it's not something I'm going out of the way to see. Even when they were on HDNet they had that grimey look. Khan might think people have wanted to see ROH with a real budget but again it just feels like what Vince was trying to do with WWECW. Drape the ECW logo over, and then when it's time to start Smackdown remove it lol.

[Mazer]

I thought last PPV was one of the better ones. Reignited my interest in a few things.


And then....I have no idea why Jeff Jarrett is getting this much time. Nobody asked for this. There's not nostalgia. He's not compelling in ring or mic. And now he's part of "levelling up" after being a big part of a feud that should have helped establish the Tag Team Champs' place. I don't get it.

And just looking at the end. You have Wardlow lose, and part of who it puts over is QT Marshall?


These are your bookends?

[Mazer]

And completely agree with ECWWE comparison.


For the ROH brand to have value again, they need to eventually find a way for it to stand on it's own. Understand that it might have to have had a transition period. But you have to get there eventually.

[MTR]

Yeah not sure what is going on with Jeff Jarrett. I don't need to see him as much as I am seeing him on tv.

They need to get to the point that wrestlers are only one one brand or the other. Maybe a cross over here and there but the majority of the time ROH people are on the ROH programing and the AEW people are on the AEW programming. You have a lot of people do both right now even as they transition to their own show for ROH. Unless you are like Serpentico and wrestling under a different gimmick on each brand. :lol:

[Nash Diesel]

The problem is ROH has been dying a slow death for years. It shouldn't even exist. The essence is gone because what made ROH ROH were the talent, and those guys are staples of the WWE and other major organizations for damn near 20 years. That style doesn't stand out anymore. Thank God ECW died. They lost the talent that made that show what it was. And they made piss poor decisions like instead of putting the World title on RVD, you put it on Steve Corino, Jerry Lynn, guys who can't draw shit on a diaper. By 2000 everyone was having ECW style matches. Not just the hardcore chairs and tables, but the WRESTLING.

ROH, same thing man. They had a little resurgence with the New Japan partnership but by the time they put the fuckin belt on Adam Cole, WWE was already putting the belt on guys like Seth Rollins, Daniel Bryan, plus you had NXT turning into basically ROH with a budget-yet still not in front of 10-20,000 people in a big ass arena but maybe 2-3 times a year if that.

[Mazer]

It's not that I don't think ROH can't exist. There are more ways for a product to exist than there have ever been. Web Shows, obscure streaming services (ROH on Roku? Why the fuck not), and proliferation of "channels" to the point where I'm not sure that phrase even has a meaning anymore. If WWE and AEW are the Walmart and Costco of American Wrestling Feds, no reason there can't be some Fred Meyers, Targets, and Dollar Generals.

But there isn't really an ROH brand right now. It's basically AEW people with different belts. I think there might be a nice market for something that's a little more underground. They can take some different risks, etc. But there needs to be some level of differentiation.

[MTR]

Forbidden Door confirmed and going to be in Canada this time around.

[Defrost]

Boo

[Nash Diesel]

Hopefully they get Naito.

[Peter Griffin]

So my brother is watching this last night, MJF comes out with all the ladies and he says 'looks like he got over the breakup real quick' so I say 'anyone can put on a fake smile he could be heartbroken for all we know' and the next thing he goes and sticks his tongue down one of their throats ffs.

[Matthew]

the show must go on

[Nash Diesel]

Digging the 4 pillars getting some shine. I was honestly about to turn in my AEW card if Adam Cole v. MJF was on deck.

[MTR]

Cole vs MJF is probably coming though

[Nash Diesel]

Cole vs MJF is probably coming though

I will say this. A match is one thing. I could see a match on Dynamite coming together after a week build, #1 cont battle royal type thing. I can stomach that. Cole can go in the ring, but so can everyone in wrestling sans Vince McMahon. The voice, the promo, the way he looks, it's well documented how I feel about him. I also acknowledge that I'm obviously "wrong" because ROH, NXT, and AEW disagree with me lol.

Back to the pillars. It does feel like this could be a way to see how much people care about these young talents. I'm digging 3 of the 4. Jungle Boy bores me. There has to be something more than what we've seen. I wasn't a fan of his gimmick to begin with, I also didn't grow up on that weird PBS show about the kids and the dragons. Maybe that was the demo?

Darby, Sammy....Serious potential they're proven upper midcarders in AEW. If the argument is we need to see less WWE main eventers and more of the up and coming talent, I'm here for it. If last night was a statement, that these are the 4 guys we're going with the same way WWE looked at Cena, Orton, Batista, and Edge and said these are our next Austin, Rock, Taker, and Triple H I'm here for it. Obviously there are a couple names that will slide in there as well. Wardlow, if they're serious about that guy yeah he's mid 30's but damn so was Batista. So was Nash when they finally pulled the trigger.

[Nash Diesel]

Also--Let's prop up the women's division getting some momentum with Taya Valkrie signing. The biggest issue with the women's division aside from some pretty bad botches is that they sign people or level up some people and then boom, gone. Or they push the wrong people. They strikeout way more than they get on base let's put it that way. I'm not a fan of The Outcasts. I want to be. I think in the perfect setting those 3 especially Paige has nWo written all over them. Paige, Sasha Banks, I always felt like they could've been leaders and/or members of some reincarnation of the nWo. An all female nWo with Kevn Nash as the manager would've been insanity.

[MTR]

I will say this. A match is one thing. I could see a match on Dynamite coming together after a week build, #1 cont battle royal type thing. I can stomach that. Cole can go in the ring, but so can everyone in wrestling sans Vince McMahon. The voice, the promo, the way he looks, it's well documented how I feel about him. I also acknowledge that I'm obviously "wrong" because ROH, NXT, and AEW disagree with me lol.

Back to the pillars. It does feel like this could be a way to see how much people care about these young talents. I'm digging 3 of the 4. Jungle Boy bores me. There has to be something more than what we've seen. I wasn't a fan of his gimmick to begin with, I also didn't grow up on that weird PBS show about the kids and the dragons. Maybe that was the demo?

Darby, Sammy....Serious potential they're proven upper midcarders in AEW. If the argument is we need to see less WWE main eventers and more of the up and coming talent, I'm here for it. If last night was a statement, that these are the 4 guys we're going with the same way WWE looked at Cena, Orton, Batista, and Edge and said these are our next Austin, Rock, Taker, and Triple H I'm here for it. Obviously there are a couple names that will slide in there as well. Wardlow, if they're serious about that guy yeah he's mid 30's but damn so was Batista. So was Nash when they finally pulled the trigger.

I am a fan of Cole. I am not going to say you are wrong but you are wrong. lol Just kidding.

As far as the pillars go. I am a fan of all of them even Jungle Boy. I like that he is moving away from the Jungle Boy thing more into Jack Perry and I think he picked up stuff with all the time with Christian. He has come along with this personality and character. Is he quite there yet for a main event run. No. But he will be there I feel like. Darby and Sammy are like you said the upper midcard and have really proven themselves. I am for seeing any of these three challenge MJF or some kind of program with all of them trying to prove they deserve the shot while MJF sits back and watches them jump through the hoops of each other and just making promos because come on that formula seems to be working for him. lol

I am with you. I want them to really start pushing the younger home grown talent. Throw Wardlow into the mix as well.

[MTR]

Also--Let's prop up the women's division getting some momentum with Taya Valkrie signing. The biggest issue with the women's division aside from some pretty bad botches is that they sign people or level up some people and then boom, gone. Or they push the wrong people. They strikeout way more than they get on base let's put it that way. I'm not a fan of The Outcasts. I want to be. I think in the perfect setting those 3 especially Paige has nWo written all over them. Paige, Sasha Banks, I always felt like they could've been leaders and/or members of some reincarnation of the nWo. An all female nWo with Kevn Nash as the manager would've been insanity.

I am fan of the Outcasts individually but not a fan of this group. I get trying the whole them vs the homegrown talent thing and Ruby in the middle to start but at the end of the day I am already bored and want to just move on. I don't think that it really ends up going anywhere or elevating anyone. Ruby just continues to be the person to put people over and never getting a run. At least let her give a run with with the TBS title once you take it off Jade.

So much potential in the women's division and yet comes off lack luster so much of the time the way they are booked and what not. I feel for Statlander and her injuries because she would was and probably will be pushed as a star of this division.

I like the Taya signing. Maybe we can give Jade a good program with this feud. I was hoping Athena was going to be it but they have just dropped her to Dark and Dark Elevation and ROH. Like the only ROH champion not on Dynamite and Rampage each week. lol

Lots of really good talent that just needs to be booked better and better angles. I don't think this Outcast thing is going to work. Just my view. Maybe it will.

[BGMaverick]

I liked the opening segment but there definitely could have been fat trimmed off the segment. Darby was the most genuine of the challengers, which was a welcomed surprise. I just think they get too inside baseball too much and it ultimately doesn't help the general look/feel of the company.

[Nash Diesel]

The Outcast stuff feels extremely forced. Were people actually booing Toni and Paige before they turned? Dude I follow Paige on Twitter, the AEW fanbase were willing to walk through fire for her any time anyone even a fellow AEW fan would question her being in the ring for example. It would've worked 1000x better if Toni and Paige debuted together in a Hall/Nash sort of a way if they really want to steal this shit. Both were beloved, probably 2 of the most popular babyfaces.

It reminds me of them turning the BCC. Take my hate toward Yuta out of this, what was the point of turning your top babyface heel? Why try to force this one? Moxley as a heel so Hangman can be the top babyface is like booking Roman Reigns in 2014/2015. If the majority of the fanbase prefer Page over Mox as the top babyface then God Help Us. The Elite should be heels-including Page. The Elite should Voltron this shit and turn on the Dark Order, destroy that stable for good. Then you can do Elite v. BCC. They won't do Elite v. Dark Order because it's a jobber feud. Elite are not going to book themselves into a feud with turds.

Athena is just a prime example of what happens when you're someone like Tony Khan and you're simply about giving people a platform. That's why I think we need to appreciate Vince and his formula more than we do. WWE gives us a mix. They're not afraid to sign someone and continue that gimmick but they're also not afraid to strip someone down and see what they mold i.e. Sami Zayn. Sometimes it works sometimes it flops. But simply giving people a bigger platform, I think that's proven to be harder to maintain-look at Bischoff and Dixie Carter. They had a couple original ideas, some were groundbreaking, but alot of it was just continuing someone else's story.

[Defrost]

I've decided my dream match for Forbidden Door is King of TV Samoa Joe vs NJPW TV Champion ZSJ.

[Badger]

You miss a week and the All Atlantic is the International Championship now lol. How did that come about?

Blink and you miss it.

[Nash Diesel]

You miss a week and the All Atlantic is the International Championship now lol. How did that come about?

Blink and you miss it.

They realized putting the Japanese flag on an All-Atlantic title was like putting Iowa on the European championship. The dumbest shit an AEW fan has defended is no doubt the way that belt looked. It surpassed defending the signing of Dr Luther.

[Defrost]

You miss a week and the All Atlantic is the International Championship now lol. How did that come about?

Blink and you miss it.

Shazam Fury of the Gods is in theaters this Friday

[Mazer]

You miss a week and the All Atlantic is the International Championship now lol. How did that come about?

Blink and you miss it.

It was a lot more about Jeff Jarrett and Shazam than most people would have seen coming.

[Dreyski]

I first thought the text in the ring said 'Shalom' in the opening segment :$

[Dreyski]

They realized putting the Japanese flag on an All-Atlantic title was like putting Iowa on the European championship. The dumbest shit an AEW fan has defended is no doubt the way that belt looked. It surpassed defending the signing of Dr Luther.

Did anyone apart from Jericho defend signing Luther? (I see he's still picking up a paycheck)

[Nash Diesel]

Did anyone apart from Jericho defend signing Luther? (I see he's still picking up a paycheck)

I don't specifically remember names but I could safely assume there were some AEW die hards out there wanting us to give Luther a chance or the one I know I heard was at least he's not in major role....

[Mazer]

I first thought the text in the ring said 'Shalom' in the opening segment :$

Shalom: Fury of the Gods would be very confusing

[Badger]

Anyone see that Twitter link going about to the Britt Baker/Anna Jay match from AEW House Rules? Holy shit this is horrendous:

https://twitter.com/kennyolivier69/status/1637546877070524420?s=46&t=H1SQ3stjjCvSEXf3iCm10w

[MTR]

I had not seen that. Ouch that is bad. Both are better than that. Wonder what was going on there.

[Morrison]

i dunno about anna, but this does not surprise me in the least with britt. she is one of the clunkiest people in the ring. awful timing, seemingly inconsistent athletic ability and no idea how to adlib if something goes askew. outside of a couple matches, she tends to be dire in the ring, and the thing propping her up was character work.

[Nash Diesel]

I'm shocked Anna Jay is back after that powerbomb she took from Nyla Rose where 99% of her head bounced off the concrete.

[BGMaverick]

I had not seen that. Ouch that is bad. Both are better than that. Wonder what was going on there.

It's a double-edged sword. On one hand, this is the purpose of these house shows, but it's not going to look good in today's world of recording everything.

[MTR]

What do you mean the purpose of house shows? To put on a bad match? Neither of them are rookies. They may not be great wrestlers but they are not bad wrestlers. I wouldn't be happy to spend money to see that. I expect a different level of performance from a WWE or AEW show than I do an indie show that I spend money to go to.

[Nash Diesel]

What do you mean the purpose of house shows? To put on a bad match? Neither of them are rookies. They may not be great wrestlers but they are not bad wrestlers. I wouldn't be happy to spend money to see that. I expect a different level of performance from a WWE or AEW show than I do an indie show that I spend money to go to.

Shit matches happen regardless the promotion but I feel where you're coming from. I wouldn't have been happy as a Britt Baker fan seeing that match.

I'm not going to speak for BG but I assume the house show part might be more about working the kinks out of matches you're going to put on television. That's how it's been forever. But the downside is everything is recorded, put out on social media. I mean, does that look like quality footage? The flipside to the downside is that there are a lot of botches going on in AEW and for a company that promotes themselves as "elite"...compared to what? My old backyard promotion in 99?

[MTR]

Yeah I know that house shows have been used to work on kinks and stuff for upcoming matches or current feuds etc but I don't think AEW is really doing that. Just looked like a set of random matches. Then again look who is booking AEW. Anyway. ;)

Yeah shit matches do happen no matter the promotion and maybe they just don't have good chemistry because the both looked out of sync and everything. Which is why I first said I wonder what was going on because they are both better than that. So maybe bad chemistry. Maybe both had a bad day. who knows but yeah in today's world everything is recorded and things like that just look bad.

[BGMaverick]

What do you mean the purpose of house shows? To put on a bad match? Neither of them are rookies. They may not be great wrestlers but they are not bad wrestlers.

It's a case-by-case scenario. It can be for talent that is green to get live experience versus an experienced person. It can be to work through matches and try different things. In their case (two talents that are a bit more seasoned but still need work), it can be utilized to work through issues and to be ready to adapt on the fly. They clearly struggled there but now they have something to build off of, for better or worse.

These house shows aren't like WWE ones, where pretty much everyone knows what they're doing and they're just refining ideas.

[Nash Diesel]

The problem is that many on the AEW roster are not very good. When I hear a talent has been on the indies for 5-10 years I wonder what bad habits they've picked up. Who trained some of these people? Who have they been working with? Iron sharpens iron, we have a lot of broomsticks sharpening broomsticks.

[Badger]

Maybe it’s just me but maybe a part of the problem is that AEW just have never had that woman that’s been the all-round package of great on the mic and in the ring (tbf Jamie Hayter is probably the closest to it right now). They’re good at sourcing out talent from elsewhere who can work but not great on the mic. On the flipside you have Jade who ticks all the boxes except memorable matches. She’s got the look and definitely improved but still not got the overall presence to connect with the crowd. Hard time deciding myself if she’s playing tough face or shitty heel. 50-odd matches in a row without defeat yet it’s all flat because they’ve made her look nigh invincible and dragged on so long to the point it’s like “Who cares who now? As long as it’s done.”

Anyway that was a bit of a diatribe but the general point is that their women’s division booking/handling has overall been a bit faeces. Feel shit saying that but I would say women’s booking has/is a major blind spot for AEW.

[VHS]

AEW is doing their dangedest to get that house show match off the internet, and by gawd they're putting up a good fight. Sloppy doesn't even describe it, it just came off as two inexperienced wrestlers aimlessly flailing towards the finish. Britt nearly snapped her own arm backwards trying to do a sling blade, and Anna Jay couldn't even get Britt up for a suplex. Constant leg slapping and punches missing by a mile.

House shows are so important when it comes to talent getting better, but somebody like Anna Jay just isn't progressing at all as a wrestler.

I imagine nothing but congratulations and handshakes in the back though. Good match, great match, when they should both be chewed out for that schlock.

[Badger]

AEW is doing their dangedest to get that house show match off the internet, and by gawd they're putting up a good fight. Sloppy doesn't even describe it, it just came off as two inexperienced wrestlers aimlessly flailing towards the finish. Britt nearly snapped her own arm backwards trying to do a sling blade, and Anna Jay couldn't even get Britt up for a suplex. Constant leg slapping and punches missing by a mile.

House shows are so important when it comes to talent getting better, but somebody like Anna Jay just isn't progressing at all as a wrestler.

I imagine nothing but congratulations and handshakes in the back though. Good match, great match, when they should both be chewed out for that schlock.

Yeah I see it’s off Twitter now.

It was like watching two drunks go at a pub fight yet drunks generally get the odd hit in. I don’t think there’s any one of them more at blame for the other here…they were both off.

[Nash Diesel]

If they had a female in The Elite the women's division would be better.

[Mazer]

I've seen some heat about AEW promoting Kenny Omega vs El Hijo Del Vikingo as a "Dream Match". Also criticized no build-up, etc.


Here's where I'll defend AEW a bit on this. This is who AEW is. The fans of AEW either know who he is, will be curious enough to look him up, or just be cool with the match. That's who the fanbase is. According to konnan, it came together quickly and with a small window. No reason why AEW shouldn't just do that shit with their brand.


On a side note, I have tickets to Dynamite. On Thursday, with only HOOK vs. Hathaway announced, was a little worried. Now, I'm convinced that the random internet critiques will have Omega determined to put on the best free tv match he's done.

[BGMaverick]

I've seen some heat about AEW promoting Kenny Omega vs El Hijo Del Vikingo as a "Dream Match". Also criticized no build-up, etc.


You're right, it is who they are and what they do. Instead of saying it's just a match, it feels blah but if you add "Dream Match" it's going to draw more attention. That is part of the job: draw more attention.

re: side note - always a personal agenda for you :lol:

[Nash Diesel]

I've seen some heat about AEW promoting Kenny Omega vs El Hijo Del Vikingo as a "Dream Match". Also criticized no build-up, etc.


Here's where I'll defend AEW a bit on this. This is who AEW is. The fans of AEW either know who he is, will be curious enough to look him up, or just be cool with the match. That's who the fanbase is. According to konnan, it came together quickly and with a small window. No reason why AEW shouldn't just do that shit with their brand.


On a side note, I have tickets to Dynamite. On Thursday, with only HOOK vs. Hathaway announced, was a little worried. Now, I'm convinced that the random internet critiques will have Omega determined to put on the best free tv match he's done.

I think we can all agree that if you're a fan of AEW you probably already know who this guy is. Or it doesn't even matter. Ultimately I think to the AEW fanbase when we hear this is a dream match even if you're not familiar with Viking you're going to take their word for it, maybe research him.

People that are complaining, I didn't do a survey but I imagine they're thinking of the WWE and/or they want to slight AEW for calling this a dream match. I will say we've had quite a few AEW matches randomly labeled as dream matches, usually during commentary as opposed to advertising. Maybe that's the idea, every match is a dream match to someone. Edge v. Randy Orton being called the greatest match of all time was arguably the dumbest promotional tactic the WWE have used so at least we're not getting a pre-Melzter 8 star review.

[Nash Diesel]

Who would be in your top 5 "busts" in AEW over the last couple years? Who hasn't been delivering, booked, whatever to your liking?

[MTR]

Miro and Andrade for sure. I am a fan but things have not panned out for them.

Ruby basically pushed to put people over.

Statlander only because of the injury problems.

Those are off the top of my head.

[Badger]

Definitely Miro and Andrade.

Eddie Kingston’s lost a lot of momentum since the Jericho feud.

Santana and Ortiz. They should’ve had a run with the titles.

[Nash Diesel]

Definitely Miro and Andrade.

Eddie Kingston’s lost a lot of momentum since the Jericho feud.

Santana and Ortiz. They should’ve had a run with the titles.

I agree with everyone you mentioned but do they not stick out the most? It's almost embarrassing when you remember how hot they were not just as a team but when they did that vignette for Santana that's when I started thinking ok AEW might have something here. There was that resurgence they had where it felt like they were finally going to get to the next level and it just didn't happen.

Take out Eddie and my top 5 would look almost identical. I'd replace Eddie with Lance Archer. I will admit I'm not a huge fan but he has a place in the company. I can take myself out of personal preference and see where someone can be beneficial and this guy had Jake the Snake ffs. Did it feel thrown together? Yes 100% but they could've done more and stayed consistent with it. He just randomly shows up. I'm not sure if he was World title worthy but my issue is more about the lack of usage.

Miro and Andrade....Again 2 guys I'm not fainting over but they were talent that everyone was just so fucking sure they'd be used better than anywhere else and what did we get? Hey, I'm a fan of King of Kongs, Billy Mitchell is a weird dude but he didn't get put in the camel clutch. The best man thing was stupid, the soldier of God stuff was odd....Andrade...Holy shit that guy was not only buried by the company he did himself zero favors backstage. Many were so sure Charlotte would follow him there, she knew better.

[MTR]

Yeah I don't think I would say Eddie. He has had some good programs.

Totally wasn't thinking about Santana and Ortiz but they totally should have had a run at some point and they missed the boat with it.

Archer is another one. Totally could have been used better. He seems to be a start and stop kind of guy with this pushes and what not.

[Nash Diesel]

Too early to throw Adam Cole's name in the mix?

[MTR]

Probably since you know he is about to get another shot at the title. :lol:

[Nash Diesel]

Probably since you know he is about to get another shot at the title. :lol:

Bad enough he already had one that did nothing for everyone. That's why I'm thinking he might be a bust. He came in, the needle didn't move. He got a title program, nobody cared. He wins the Owen, gets hurt, feels like he's lost all that momentum. AEW is booked like a kid with ADD. You blink and we've moved on.

[Defrost]

Forbidden Door basically sold out in the presale

[MTR]

Yeah I didn't like his program with Page. I like Cole. Don't get me wrong but that was meh. And then yeah injury makes him lose momentum. So lets see what happens when he comes back. So yeah I can agree at this point and time a bust.

[Nash Diesel]

He's teetering. He's young enough to hopefully be able to bounce back. AEW not doing monthly ppvs helps give title opps to people who might not be in line for a ppv build. Think MJF v. Ricky Starks. Cole could find himself in that position.

[MTR]

I would be okay with that while he is getting back in the groove.

[Defrost]

Cole is massively over and he's coming back from a serious injury which can only add to that. He'll be more than fine.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Cole/MJF sounds like a painfully boring main event program

[Defrost]

Well that was fun

[Nash Diesel]

Cole is massively over and he's coming back from a serious injury which can only add to that. He'll be more than fine.

Insert anyone's name there in the AEW bubble. Of course he'll be fine. The one thing you have to embrace a true AEW fan is that no matter, everything in AEW will be fine.

[Tainted Eclipse]

i love the colored ropes. hope they stick with them.

[Morrison]

probably won't happen, but mox fucking up ibushi next week at bloodsport would be excellent.

[VHS]

Hijo del Vikingo... off the chart talent, holy frickin cow.

[Defrost]

They announced Vikingo vs Komander at the ROH PPV

[Mazer]

5 busts...interesting question.


Miro and Andrade are the top two.

1. Miro
2. Andrade

I can't include Eddie, because I think he got higher than I ever thought he would have. Never believed in sustained run Eddie, and there's probably an argument that he went higher in AEW than he should have or could have in other places.

Jeff Hardy. Particularly given the way AEW fans shit on WWE on his exit, and their little bits when he came in. And it really is a tragedy for that guy. But it was built, and then demons took him out. I think he's in there

Athena. I really thought she could do something in the women's division when she came in. I know ROH, etc. But given the opportunity on the main roster, how she came in with Jade....I thought that was a missed opportunity.

I'm honestly wondering whether Saraya could be a bust eventually.

Wardlow too.

Two spicy takes for busts....only because of the highest level of expectations. CM Punk and Cody Rhodes.

[MTR]

I didn't even think of Hardy. That is a good one.

I was thinking Athena and on the fence. Seemed like they kind of did her like Ruby and just put over Jade but yeah at least there was a pivot to ROH where she got the belt.

[Nash Diesel]

The weird part is, Athena was the catalyst for my question but then I started seeing other people's suggestions and the list just kept growing in my head lol. Putting the women on this list is almost a disservice to them because let's face it, AEW's womens division is terrible. Good talent here and there no doubt, but the way it's presented is pretty bad. Even WWE's lowest point in the last 20 years is still better than AEW. They just fumble the women so easily. Look at Saraya, nothing about this storyline makes sense to me. Nobody was getting booed, the trolls on Twitter weren't AEW, WWE fans they were just douchebags that everyone deals with.

Jeff AND Matt Hardy were on my mind. But then I removed them because it's not like their current status is anything different than WWE or TNA/Impact. As it was said, the way a lot of AEW fans and even Matt played the whole WWE release thing like it was WWE being douchebags....and then we see what came of the relaxed AEW environment, which is a totally different conversation in itself.

CM Punk....Yes and no. A bust for the inactivity and injuries, but when he was there it was some of the best stuff in wrestling. Not just for today but imo of all time. It's a shame because right now AEW could have a fire storyline if Punk was still there imo. But he was almost a bust at the start wrestling all these fuckin jabronis.

[MTR]

I am with Nash on the yes and no for Punk for basically the same reasons.

As far as Cody goes. I mean I don't think I would say a bust but he wasn't on the level he wanted to be at I think.

[Mazer]

It's all relative and individual takes, but here was where I was going back and forth for punk.

The return was, and always will be, memorable. And it was immediately "I'm here full-time. I'll be here until the wheels fall off, etc".

And the beginning was somewhere between good and fine, as the lower level matches stretched on. And then it picked up. MJF, etc. We go to championship. Good bits. But also an unfortunate injury.

And then, the end.

Pretty much every wrestling fan wanted CM Punk back. Wanted the moments, etc. And then there was realistic hope we could see it for an extended period.



At the end, he became "possibly more trouble than he's worth", came off to many (certainly not all) as just tiresome to even hear about, and had turned off a lot of the fanbase that clamored for him.

Maybe it's fair, maybe it isn't. But definitely at least an argument for high unfulfilled potential.




Hopefully guy can just chill out now, and watch a Rocky movie or two.

[Mazer]

I am with Nash on the yes and no for Punk for basically the same reasons.

As far as Cody goes. I mean I don't think I would say a bust but he wasn't on the level he wanted to be at I think.

Certainly not a take I feel strongly about.

But there's an argument that he was going to be a pillar. He was a founder. Independent show organizer. And in many ways, he should have been embraced by the AEW community. And he was like one of two guys, with an audience that accepts basically any push, that they couldn't push right. They gave him his own reality show, made him one of the faces of the brand....and he ended up back at WWE.



And now he's absolutely over, and is one of the faces of the industry.





Sometimes, I love the wrestling industry.

[Nash Diesel]

The thing is with Punk unless you've been living under a rock, every negative was to be expected. He's always been difficult, he's always had a chip on his shoulder, and the fucked up part is he kind of earned the right. He's no different than Hogan, Austin, the guys who were a pain in the ass but were still the top draw. Personally I thought the whole brawl was corny it made me mad that I was kind of siding with the Elite camp because they had balls to actually step up to Punk when he called people out.

Punk in AEW, best for business, judging by guys like FTR and others who kind of went against the Jericho's saying naw, Punk was/is actually really cool and a benefit to the lockerroom. But again, you listen to people who have worked with Punk whether that's Rene Dupree, Booker T, Paul London, RVD, even Roman Reigns if we need to speak on a top relevant name, I'm not sure if Rollins rant on Punk was real or just working....So weird how Punk is why we had The Shield and by all accounts it sounds like they all 3 don't like him lol.

[Nash Diesel]

Certainly not a take I feel strongly about.

But there's an argument that he was going to be a pillar. He was a founder. Independent show organizer. And in many ways, he should have been embraced by the AEW community. And he was like one of two guys, with an audience that accepts basically any push, that they couldn't push right. They gave him his own reality show, made him one of the faces of the brand....and he ended up back at WWE.



And now he's absolutely over, and is one of the faces of the industry.





Sometimes, I love the wrestling industry.

Rainn Wilson as Lex Luthor is weird.

As far as Cody goes....He was always a WWE guy in that circle. I don't think the club he befriended truly accepted him. Cody needed a Vince, a Triple H to guide him. Some wrestlers like Rob Van Dam thrive in a "go out and do whatever you want" environment, others need the controlled chaos approach.

IMHO Cody shouldn't have boxed his character in with the "I'll never challenge for the title" gimmick match. He did things that felt like he wanted people to know he wasn't going to be a Jeff Jarrett. He wasn't going to be a Hulk Hogan. These guys who take advantage of a mark i.e. Bischoff, Dixie Carter, Vince Russo. I can't say he's a bust in AEW because he's the reason we even have an AEW. He did what was needed of him. He flexed his status, he used his teachings under the WWE umbrella which includes Vince McMahon, Dusty Rhodes, the list goes on.

[Morrison]

Certainly not a take I feel strongly about.

But there's an argument that he was going to be a pillar. He was a founder. Independent show organizer. And in many ways, he should have been embraced by the AEW community. And he was like one of two guys, with an audience that accepts basically any push, that they couldn't push right. They gave him his own reality show, made him one of the faces of the brand....and he ended up back at WWE.



And now he's absolutely over, and is one of the faces of the industry.





Sometimes, I love the wrestling industry.

the first like, two years of cody was pretty great. i hated indie and new japan cody. by the end of his match with dustin at the first double or nothing, i was coming around. once dynamite debuted, he was a highlight during those first handful of months, especially his program with jericho and mjf and his first tnt title reign. people were very much in his corner and he really did feel almost like the 'heart' of the brand despite not letting himself get positioned as one of the top tier main eventers. his stuff with brodie was great and he had a lot of good will with the fans around the time of brodie's passing thanks to how he treated and was there for the family.

it wasn't until the nightmare family break-up and feud with qt marshall that opinions started to actively swing the other way with any kind of sustained momentum. the stuff with qt was whatever, but the ogogo feud was terrible and didn't even end with ogogo being put over or elevated, which made it even worse. the cody-verse bubble really became an issue during all this. the malakai debut and squash was great and felt like it was a return to form, but then he did the weird 'leave the boots in the ring' fake retirement thing that put people off. from the qt feud up until he left, there seemed to be a constant give and take when it came to cody, where he would do or be involved in cool shit that almost everyone was into and up for, followed up by some weird character moment or decision that would be two steps back.

stuff like the malakai squash and losing the big follow up match at grand slam people loved. him moonsaulting through burning tables and setting himself on fire for an episode of dynamite had people appreciating how nutty and dedicated he was. curing racism? doing a us vs uk angle for a smarky fanbase in 2021? unbelievable melodrama to try and force sympathy? not so much. he had some promos at the end of 2021 and beginning of 2022 during his feud with sammy and third tnt title reign that were nice and addressed the inconsistency with the fan reception, and he had that amazing ladder match with sammy to cap it all off. but then he left.

as someone who hated cody and eventually came around on him, i didn't want him to leave AEW. i just wanted more of what made him a compelling figure, naturally, instead of forcing things. oddly enough, he's been pretty flawless during his WWE return, though it's easy to snipe at him for some cody-isms, which i get more of a kick out of than find them egregious in any way. i think having to filter his ideas through different channels has helped to alleviate some of the bloat and cut down significantly on a bunch of the annoying character flares he found himself running into in AEW.

[Nash Diesel]

He went from filtering his ideas through Tony Khan, QT, and his wife to Vince, Triple H, Bruce Prichard, and I would even bet Seth Rollins.

If Cody stayed he needed to turn heel, win the World title from Hangman or Moxley. Have that heel run for however long and then he'd be able to turn back full blown babyface when it's all said and done. You wanted to boo the neck tat, his wife, the WWE-esque persona when it wasn't shitting on the WWE. The reality show. As dude said, curing racism lol.

He has a great story. Did he come across as someone who came across as a little naive post-WWE? Yes. He was a money mark himself. American Nightmare shirts in the Hot Topic will do that to you when your Stardust shirt never sold.

[Mazer]

. American Nightmare shirts in the Hot Topic will do that to you when your Stardust shirt never sold.

OK.

This was a fun line

[Mazer]

I know this is a hardly a HOT TAKE, but it's been a fascinating journey.


I took my kids to Smackdown last Friday. None of them watch wrestling, but they enjoy going to live events with me. But when we were driving home, they were asking about Cody Rhodes. I start telling his story, they're all finding it interesting . it really is a compelling wrestling life story.

[MTR]

Headed to the show on Wednesday. Not the same type main even that Mazer got this last week but excited to see Omega live for the first time.

[Nash Diesel]

IDGAF who you are including my 21 year old son who is not a fan of Omega, he's someone I believe everyone should see live at least once. Generational talent?

[MTR]

I think you can argue that.

He was hurt last year when they came to town. I did get to see Sting who I had never seen live even though he didn't wrestle. I think Tanahishi was there as well to promote his match with Moxley.

[MTR]

Shibata vs Wheeler for the ROH Pure title at Super Card of Honor on Friday.

[Mazer]

IDGAF who you are including my 21 year old son who is not a fan of Omega, he's someone I believe everyone should see live at least once. Generational talent?

100 agree. All the most memorable guys, even if I'm not a big personal fan, I like to try to see live at least once.

Crossed off Sting last week too. Which is obviously not peak Sting. But still. Saw him in the ring live.

[Nash Diesel]

100 agree. All the most memorable guys, even if I'm not a big personal fan, I like to try to see live at least once.

Crossed off Sting last week too. Which is obviously not peak Sting. But still. Saw him in the ring live.

I was trying to think of wrestlers who I haven't seen that I had a realistic chance of seeing. Obviously seeing Kenta Kobashi was not very realistic. I've been going to shows since 1987 when I was 5-6 so I've seen many. But when I think about the modern era there are some names that stand out. I don't think I've ever seen The Usos live. Nakamura is someone who I should've seen by now. Even my son met him after an NXT show when Nak was champ.

That's why I want an AEW show to come closer. Minneapolis isn't a bad drive but there are still some wrestlers I didn't see at the ppv.

[Mazer]

I was trying to think of wrestlers who I haven't seen that I had a realistic chance of seeing. Obviously seeing Kenta Kobashi was not very realistic. I've been going to shows since 1987 when I was 5-6 so I've seen many. But when I think about the modern era there are some names that stand out. I don't think I've ever seen The Usos live. Nakamura is someone who I should've seen by now. Even my son met him after an NXT show when Nak was champ.

That's why I want an AEW show to come closer. Minneapolis isn't a bad drive but there are still some wrestlers I didn't see at the ppv.

The NWO run in WWE may not have been particularly memorable, but it did give me the chance to see some all-time guys live that i wouldn't have seen otherwise. It was always bug me a bit that I never saw Hulk in the ring.

[MTR]

I don't think I ever saw Hulk wrestle. I saw him live at least once though. A Raw in St. Louis after he won the title but he didn't wrestle. The WWF house shows I went to as a kid were not in a big enough town for him to be on the card. However I did get to see Andre wrestle live at one of those house shows against Hillbilly Jim and saw a very excellent match between Hitman and Mr. Perfect.

[Nash Diesel]

I saw Hogan a couple times in the 80's and once or twice in the 90's. I know for a fact I saw him live on Nitro against The Giant after the first Souled Out. I will always regret missing the Bossman/Hogan cage match they aired on SNME that was taped here back in 1989.

[3puppies]

I saw Hogan wrestle live, but as "Irish Terry Hogan", accompanied by Fred Blassie, against I think Jose Estrada or maybe it was Johnny Rodz in a squash match - winning with a bear hug, that heel Hogan held onto well after the ref stopped the bout, and they ended up ringing the bell three more times until Blassie finally okayed that Hogan stop. This was on a card that also featured Andre the Giant winning the main event battle royal of 19 jobbers that were all well less than 1/3 his size. Andre was "only" billed at "over 400 lbs then", but the others looked like school kids around a teacher next to Andre. A lot of us were joking that the midgets we saw earlier in the night - one who pantsed the ref - had returned for the battle royal, but Andre was that huge.

[MTR]

Andre was huge. By the time I saw him he was not in the best of shape. This was right before him and Haku started teaming up. They were both part of the Heenan family and Haku got involved in the match and so did Hacksaw because he was feuding with Haku over the "king" title.

[MTR]

I may be in for a long night tonight. ROH of tv show for tomorrow is being taped tonight on top of Rampage.

[MTR]

I wonder if I will be lucky enough to see Shibata tonight since he is challenging Yuta on Friday.

[Nash Diesel]

Hopefully because they gotta be paying him an extreme amount of $$$ to put over Yuta.

[Nash Diesel]

Speaking of the Yuta Experiment....Anyone listen to Mox on his wife's podcast? I only read the "news" about it. Two things that stood out that everyone seems to be talking about. #1-He was not under contract while he was champion in 2022 during the Punk/New Japan stuff. He jokingly said he could've walked into Summerslam after the main event with the AEW title. #2-He said that in all of the places he's worked-including WWE-he's never dealt with as much drama as he has in AEW. I think he meant as a whole, not just with talent but the behind the scenes, the fans, everything. Some thought he meant the Punk situation but further reviews show he was making somewhat of a general statement.

And you know when a guy who wrote a book where half the thing is shitting on WWE, it's gotta be pretty bad in AEW. Not shocked. For as bad as the WWF lockerroom was made out to be in the 90's, most people who were in WWF and WCW said WCW was much worse. Probably because you had Bischoff wanting to kick it and chill with the boys and be a mark, whereas Vince only gave a fuck about the bottomline. Bischoff didn't have to worry about that. Same with Tony. Same with Dixie. There's a theme with the money marks.

Moxley is probably the one guy that will keep tuned in to AEW even if I don't care what he's doing. I know eventually he will do something I like or I'll hear a great promo. He's kind of like Tommy Dreamer in ECW. One of those guys that might not always deliver but you would hate to see him go. I think if Mox left AEW I would have less interest in the product because he's a main reason why I've stuck it out in the first place.

[MTR]

I have not listened to it. Read some snippets on various sites. Yeah got to be bad in AEW for him to say that. Interesting about the contract situation. I hadn't heard that part.

[Nash Diesel]

I have not listened to it. Read some snippets on various sites. Yeah got to be bad in AEW for him to say that. Interesting about the contract situation. I hadn't heard that part.

I don't think any of us knew he was working without a contract. That just shows the faith he and Tony Khan have in each other. Mox was loyal and probably didn't even bother talking to the WWE about coming back.

[VHS]

Jungle Boy shouldn't need any kind of interference to beat Matt Hardy. But he held his own w/ MJF on the mic. :yes:

BCC has lost so much oomf, and Yuta being there just makes it so mid.

Omega is still annoying, awkward and weird.

[VHS]

Bryan Danielson is heel now?

ehh.

[3puppies]

Brian Danielson has shown he can be equally good as a heel or face. His last heel run in WWE, he managed to overcome the love the crowd had for him, as he took the vegan gimmick to obnoxious levels, and called out the crowd fickle. I think he looks at this as a challenge.

[Morrison]

Jungle Boy shouldn't need any kind of interference to beat Matt Hardy. But he held his own w/ MJF on the mic. :yes:

BCC has lost so much oomf, and Yuta being there just makes it so mid.

Omega is still annoying, awkward and weird.

lol fucking WHAT.

this period of BCC just being fuckin menaces is great. and your take on kenny has always been so fucking dumb, i legit don't even know how to even respond to it.

[Morrison]

Bryan Danielson is heel now?

ehh.

oh noooooes, the guy who is a billion times more entertaining as a character when he's a heel turned heel!

[VHS]

lol fucking WHAT.

this period of BCC just being fuckin menaces is great. and your take on kenny has always been so fucking dumb, i legit don't even know how to even respond to it.

You just did respond to it though. :lol:

[Morrison]

You just did respond to it though. :lol:

you do know the difference between 'acknowledge' and 'respond,' yes?

[kdestiny]

oh noooooes, the guy who is a billion times more entertaining as a character when he's a heel turned heel!

Heel BCC could be a real blast. I've been hoping for it and I'm ready.

[Morrison]

Heel BCC could be a real blast. I've been hoping for it and I'm ready.

from a character standpoint, these past few weeks from the BCC has been their best work, in my opinion. mox always kicks on all cylinders, but there's this vicious, unhinged streak right now, that is being matched by this vicious, calculating streak from claudio, that has the group FEELING truly menacing instead of just talking about how they like to fight and be violent. just mugging people and being dicks. it's been great.

[VHS]

you do know the difference between 'acknowledge' and 'respond,' yes?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HULCkCx0Isg

[VHS]

Anybody else catch AEW All Access? They dragged Thunder Rosa in the mud to start things off and it really made Britt Baker come off as an entitled and bitter brat. All she's done is complain. I've never heard Thunder Rosa fire back or say woe is me.

Low class on Britt's end.

[MTR]

Bryan Danielson is heel now?

ehh.

He never really stopped working heel even when they started BCC. He even continued to come out the "heel" tunnel. He just ended up being cheered. The man can go back and forth so easy just slightly changing the wording and stuff he uses in his promos.

[MTR]

That show was fucking great live and despite how long of a night it made the ROH taping was good as well. Got to see Vinkgo wrestle live and was not expecting that.

Only thing that sucked last night was the main event for Rampage. I hope they clean that shit up before tomorrow.

[Nash Diesel]

I wouldn't mind heel BCC if it made sense and wasn't forced. The live crowd felt very indifferent. Watching it on tv I honestly felt like they were piping in boos but MTR you were there did it sound like the crowd was reacting accordingly? Like I can boo the shit out of Yuta no problem, the other 3....And for them to be all "YOU'RE WHAT'S WRONG WITH PRO WRESTLING!!" and I'm thinking.....That's odd all things considered lol. Why is that the main theme in AEW? You can always count on at least 2 feuds to be based around the other person being the wrong fit for the business.

What I will say is that despite me not having any real joy seeing Hangman or Yuta, I have no qualms about Omega/Bucks v. Mox/Dragon/Claudio. If we could just have those 6 and not all this other nonsense, see who the best of the best are....That would be dope. Turning your top babyface heel i.e. Mox is some ignorant I don't learn from history booking.

[MTR]

When Danielson first game out lots of cheers and YES! chants and even when he turned on Omega still a lot of cheers because honestly BCC is still getting a fair amount of cheers despite what they are doing. It was mixed when he turned on Omega though. But probably leaning still cheering. I need to watch the show tonight after work so I can see and hear the reactions from that side of things.

[Nash Diesel]

It's just an odd direction to take. I assume Tony didn't want Hangman and the others as heels, especially when Omega/Bucks have turned 3x now since the company started from babyface to heel to babyface again-at least it feels like The Elite are the babyfaces here right? Big Show must be on creative now.

I'm all about Kenny Omega v. Bryan Danielson. They had the draw, I don't think they've had a singles match since but I could be wrong. There's a story there that didn't need to go this route but whatever, stable wars are AEWS bread and butter.

[Nash Diesel]

Don Callis, legit fucked up last night after getting attacked lol. For fuck's sake AEW. I get it, they don't like anything the WWE does. How about you at the very least take into consideration the well being of your fellow man? Keep in mind, this is the same company who's talent and some fans went to die on the Jeff Hardy isn't a danger to the industry hill and look what happened? Shit look what happened to his brother prior to that?

When Lacey Evans forgets to tag Xia Li we laugh. Those are the botches we can handle.

[Morrison]

CATALYST OF PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING.

[BigAl]

White probably couldn’t sign with AEW fast enough after seeing that Vince took over creative again.

[Fanny Batter]

Wembley Stadium is shooting for the stars and then some. Aiming to nearly quadruple their attendance record?! Fascinated what they constitute a mega card - all of the best options feature Omega, but surely Punk's back in the fold? Have they got intel that Drew's contract is up? I hope it's not an unlikeable cunt like Ospreay doing a hometown world title chase as him and MJF is a nightmare feud on the mic, as good as the match would be.

MJF himself is the odd man out. Him and Punk would be big, but how do you spin Punk as a babyface after what happened at All Out? Omega's on option, but they've got probably 4 more interesting matches for Kenny (Punk, Ospreay, Okada, Danielson) based on his history in wrestling. I guess you can go all in on the Elite reunion and have an Elite backed Hangman Page challenging him? That would make sense, and follows the Pillars storyline logically. Hangman makes Danielson submit in Blood and Guts then goes for the title. Or do you hotshot the belt back to Punk and have him and Omega for the title? I'd be going:

CM Punk vs. Kenny Omega
AEW Title: MJF vs. Hangman Page
IWGP Title: Okada vs. Ospreay
ROH Title: Cesaro vs. PAC
AEW Tag Titles: FTR vs. Young Bucks
Jon Moxley vs. Bryan Danielson

[Peter Griffin]

Let's fucking go :panic:

[Badger]

Hell fucking yes I’ll be going to this! Would be my first live AEW and also first time going to Wembley.

[Defrost]

Wembley Stadium is shooting for the stars and then some. Aiming to nearly quadruple their attendance record?! Fascinated what they constitute a mega card - all of the best options feature Omega, but surely Punk's back in the fold? Have they got intel that Drew's contract is up? I hope it's not an unlikeable cunt like Ospreay doing a hometown world title chase as him and MJF is a nightmare feud on the mic, as good as the match would be.

MJF himself is the odd man out. Him and Punk would be big, but how do you spin Punk as a babyface after what happened at All Out? Omega's on option, but they've got probably 4 more interesting matches for Kenny (Punk, Ospreay, Okada, Danielson) based on his history in wrestling. I guess you can go all in on the Elite reunion and have an Elite backed Hangman Page challenging him? That would make sense, and follows the Pillars storyline logically. Hangman makes Danielson submit in Blood and Guts then goes for the title. Or do you hotshot the belt back to Punk and have him and Omega for the title? I'd be going:

CM Punk vs. Kenny Omega
AEW Title: MJF vs. Hangman Page
IWGP Title: Okada vs. Ospreay
ROH Title: Cesaro vs. PAC
AEW Tag Titles: FTR vs. Young Bucks
Jon Moxley vs. Bryan Danielson

If Okada were to work this show Okada vs Omega would be more likely than Okada vs Ospreay.

[Mazer]

That was actually a huge announcement.....that was actually a huge announcement.

Bringing Adam Cole out to deliver the message felt weird. But it does back-up my theory: Every Promoter Falls in Love with Adam Cole.

[Badger]

Everyone loves Adam Cole baybay except maybe Nash lol.

[3puppies]

Everyone loves Adam Cole baybay except maybe Nash lol.

Pat McAfee does not like Adam Cole.

[Mazer]

Neither Nash or Pat are putting together a wrestling show.

If they ever worked on something like that, soon they would have a meet cute with Adam Cole. and begin to fall in love.

[Badger]

That was actually a huge announcement.....that was actually a huge announcement.

Bringing Adam Cole out to deliver the message felt weird. But it does back-up my theory: Every Promoter Falls in Love with Adam Cole.

Yeah like 9 times out of 10 they hype a huge announcement it under-delivers.

This one lived up to the hype for once! :lol:

[Nash Diesel]

I know it's a big task but I think they can pull it off. People outside of the US don't realize just how excited non-Americans get when promotions like WWE, UFC come through and while AEW isn't really on their level, it's like taking Lollapalooza to Wembley. They don't get this stuff over there very often.

If you're not hoping for the best you're a true hater of AEW. Don't overthink it, don't look beyond the event and what it could do for them as a brand outside the US. Just enjoy it.

And why in the fuck did they have Adam Cole out there? Is there something sexual about Adam Cole that you guys feel that I'm just oblivious too because I'm already attracted to enough pro wrasslers? They couldn't find a single talent from the UK to help announce it? It'd be like if the WWE were going to have a huge ppv in Japan and they bring out Riddle to announce it......And if Tony Khan overdoses before the event I'll be sad he didn't get to see his vision he's had since he was a 12 year old boy in San Antonio.

[Tainted Eclipse]

i'm with nash on adam cole

[MTR]

Yeah as much as I am an Adam Cole fan I don't understand why they use him for announcements. You have Nigel McGuiness right there. Why didn't he announce it?

[Tainted Eclipse]

it felt like they were giving him the poochie treatment there.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Wembley Stadium is shooting for the stars and then some. Aiming to nearly quadruple their attendance record?! Fascinated what they constitute a mega card - all of the best options feature Omega, but surely Punk's back in the fold? Have they got intel that Drew's contract is up? I hope it's not an unlikeable cunt like Ospreay doing a hometown world title chase as him and MJF is a nightmare feud on the mic, as good as the match would be.

MJF himself is the odd man out. Him and Punk would be big, but how do you spin Punk as a babyface after what happened at All Out? Omega's on option, but they've got probably 4 more interesting matches for Kenny (Punk, Ospreay, Okada, Danielson) based on his history in wrestling. I guess you can go all in on the Elite reunion and have an Elite backed Hangman Page challenging him? That would make sense, and follows the Pillars storyline logically. Hangman makes Danielson submit in Blood and Guts then goes for the title. Or do you hotshot the belt back to Punk and have him and Omega for the title? I'd be going:

CM Punk vs. Kenny Omega
AEW Title: MJF vs. Hangman Page
IWGP Title: Okada vs. Ospreay
ROH Title: Cesaro vs. PAC
AEW Tag Titles: FTR vs. Young Bucks
Jon Moxley vs. Bryan Danielson

punk/omega is the way to go for the main event if they can get it together. i think it's the only "wrestlemania main event"-level match they really have on the menu right now. which is kind of an an indictment. i don't think they have any other match up in the barrel that just screams "main event of the biggest show of the year".

if sting this show lines up with when sting wants to retire, i'd have sting turn on darby and do darby/sting career vs. career here too as sting's last match.

[Nash Diesel]

I'll fuckin die of laughter if Punk headlines this show. Not because I dislike Punk or anything, but because of all the supposed shit going on. He's their Austin. Dude is bulletproof and if he ain't, they wasted our time.

Why is Nigel being in AEW some big deal? Get off the nuts of history. The only problem I had with Nigel being there is he didn't even do any magic. You're a fucking magician and you don't even do anything cool for your debut? And what is his purpose? Announcing? He isn't going to be wrestling, but then again it's AEW they give zero fucks. If Chris Benoit was still alive AEW would be looking to figure out a way to sign him.

[Nash Diesel]

I read a tweet that said Saraya v. Jamie Hayter would sell this place out. That's a real tweet. I just skimmed past it so maybe they were joking.

[Badger]

Vickie Guerrero’s been removed from the AEW roster page. Her new husband apparently molested her daughter and she sided with him. Went on Instagram posting (now deleted) some very shitty things about her daughter saying she was victim-blaming.

That’s waaay fucked up.

[MTR]

Her contract was coming up and they had already stopped bringing her in for tv so not surprised they went ahead and removed her from the page after all that stuff came out.

[Nash Diesel]

Yeah better to just not try to find out who's in the right/wrong and it's too bad that we live in a day and age where people feel like they have to go on social media about these things.

Correct me if I'm wrong this is not Vickie's daughter but Eddie's daughter he had while him and Vickie were separated?

[mth]

I was just reading about all that. :( :no:

[MTR]

Yeah better to just not try to find out who's in the right/wrong and it's too bad that we live in a day and age where people feel like they have to go on social media about these things.

Correct me if I'm wrong this is not Vickie's daughter but Eddie's daughter he had while him and Vickie were separated?

This is one of Vickie's and Eddie's daughters.

I watched the daughter's video and I have read Vickie's not deleted post. What a fucked up situation.

[Donald]

Good for AEW. Not sure if they could fill a stadium that big but here's hoping.

[Nash Diesel]

It's one of those situations (Vickie) where wrestling fans need to shut the fuck up and not take sides. I'm seeing bullshit about Eddie wouldn't want this the fuck do we know what that man wanted in life? He's dead. Read his book.

[Peter Griffin]

Chavo and her Sister have confirmed the assault did happen Although the sister just parrotted Vickies nonsense about why did the kid take a car after the assault as if that has anything to do with the price of fish.

[Donald]

I mean I gotta ask is why is this any of our business.

[Nash Diesel]

When is Rick Steiner going to be All Elite?

[MTR]

When is Rick Steiner going to be All Elite?

Hopefully never

[Donald]

When is Rick Steiner going to be All Elite?

Hopefully he'll appear on an episode of Chucky Season 3, and have Chucky murder him, finally finishing their feud.

[Badger]

I’d rather see Scott but the chance drastic go down and there’s a 141 2/3% possibility of that not happening.

[VHS]

Vickie Guerrero’s been removed from the AEW roster page. Her new husband apparently molested her daughter and she sided with him. Went on Instagram posting (now deleted) some very shitty things about her daughter saying she was victim-blaming.

That’s waaay fucked up.

Oh my god :(

[Nash Diesel]

I think the Foo Fighters should play at Wembley.

[Donald]

A320 is the Foo Fighters best song. Off of the Godzilla soundtrack.

[Sinner]

Ring of Honor is the new AEW Dark and it's fucking awful

QT and Hobbs challenging for the ROH Tag Titles?

All Incel Wrestling is what it should be called because if you actually like this shit, you are a fat virgin

[MTR]

I was hoping now that they have a tv show that we wouldn't see ROH title defenses on AEW tv. *sigh* Then again when you have like almost everyone defending on Dynamite the same week you do a Battle of the Belts guess it leaves you short on matches

And yeah I don't understand why Lucha Bros won the ROH titles when they are AEW and they have good teams that they have signed to do ROH that were in that ladder match. And also yeah why the fuck is QT and Hobbs challenging for the titles.

[Nash Diesel]

I was hoping now that they have a tv show that we wouldn't see ROH title defenses on AEW tv. *sigh* Then again when you have like almost everyone defending on Dynamite the same week you do a Battle of the Belts guess it leaves you short on matches

And yeah I don't understand why Lucha Bros won the ROH titles when they are AEW and they have good teams that they have signed to do ROH that were in that ladder match. And also yeah why the fuck is QT and Hobbs challenging for the titles.

Shout out to the super fan who gave people the rundown on WHY this is happening. Hobbs beat Penta and Fenix in TV title matches due to QT.

I'll be honest, I've barely fucking watched AEW in the last month. I've caught a few episodes of Dynamite and not even all the way through. So I guess this is like some weird way of getting revenge lol. I also agree about the fact ROH has a roster, why not use it? I'll tell you why. TK is going to run that shit like WWE did ECW and we'll all pretend it's at least better than not being there at all or something weird.

[MTR]

Okay at least there is a little bit of a story reason behind it. Man that is not much to go on though. But I guess it is something. I hadn't really connected those dots on how he has beat them to retain his TNT title despite watching the matches.

Yeah he has a roster. Use it. I keep hoping that he is going to run it better than WWE did with ECW but yeah looks more and more like that he is just going to run it like WWECW

[Nash Diesel]

What helped WWE is that at least ECW was an established brand. ROH is established but the same way I guess Smokey Mountain or the USWA was in the 90's. Not many people outside the hardcore fanbase knows what an ROH even is. Most people don't even know that there is more than WWF (as 90% of the people I know call it still to this day lol).

I guess the upside is that AEW is basically already ROH with a billionaire budget. There's no sabotaging the essence of the wrestling moreso the look. I don't know too many people over the 20 years of watching ROH that said I wish they looked like Nitro.

[Mazer]

I was hoping now that they have a tv show that we wouldn't see ROH title defenses on AEW tv. *sigh* Then again when you have like almost everyone defending on Dynamite the same week you do a Battle of the Belts guess it leaves you short on matches

And yeah I don't understand why Lucha Bros won the ROH titles when they are AEW and they have good teams that they have signed to do ROH that were in that ladder match. And also yeah why the fuck is QT and Hobbs challenging for the titles.

Honestly, if AEW was actively trying to dampen the fan enthusiasm for Hobbs, putting him a QT Marshall group-that seems to think spoofing TMZ is edgy in 2023- is a good decision.

Other than that, I have no idea why someone would think this is good for him.

[Badger]

Orange Cassidy/Buddy Matthews and Swerve/Allin was really good this week, particularly Orange fighting from underneath with the hand injury then busting out the Mousetrap in a last ditch attempt which won. Sting/MJF exchange was great too, like the “Cody Day Care” line from Sting.

Also enjoyed Cutler/Nakazawa actually looking somewhat strong against the BCC before they took over and the Elite saved the day.

Big pop for Jeff’s return but yeah still on the skeptical side that he should’ve stayed away. He’s had more than a few last chances already so wait and see on that one.

Not so keen on Swerve/Lee restarting their feud again after the Jericho match.

[Defrost]

Reading the Observer and I shit you not the plan is to have a quasi brand split between Dynamite and the new Saturday show and the rosters will be place internally by how much the wrestlers hate or like CM Punk in real life.

[Tainted Eclipse]

That’s so hilarious I almost want it to be true