UFC 209: Woodley vs. Thompson 2

[Percussion]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3DP1SRXUAAHV-I.jpg:small

Main Card

UFC Welterweight Championship
Tyron 'The Chosen One' Woodley (c) vs. Stephen 'Wonderboy' Thompson
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/woodley-thompson-01.jpg?strip=all&w=540
UFC Interim Lightweight Championship
Khabib 'The Eagle' Nurmagomedov vs. Tony 'El Cucuy' Ferguson

Rashad 'Suga' Evans vs. Daniel Kelly (MW)
Lando 'Groovy' Vannata vs. David Teymur (LW)
Alistair 'The Demolition Man' Overeem vs. Mark 'Super Samoan' Hunt (HW)

FS1 Prelims

Marcin 'Tybur' Tybura vs. Luis 'KLB' Henrique (HW)
Darren 'The Damage' Elkins vs. Mirsad Bektic (FW)
Luke 'Cool Hand' Sanders vs. Iuri 'Marajo' Alcantara (BW)
Daniel Spitz vs. Mark 'The Hand of' Godbeer (HW)

Fight Pass Prelims

Tyson Pedro vs. Paul 'BearJew' Craig (LHW)

Fantastic night of fights lined up here.

Welter- and Lightweight both get settled, for now. Evans finally gets to try on his new weight. Bombs hopefully fly at HW in a Pride-lookalike 'DREAM' rematch.

And there's a Bearjew and some Godbeer. So, ok...

[Kdestiny]

Stoked for this card. The two mains should be awesome, but I'm looking forward to seeing Evans get back in there again. I'm a big fan of the guy.

[OD50]

I can almost guarantee fireworks in the Vannata/Teymur fight.

[Nash Diesel]

2 things...#1 OD50 I hope you guys are doing ok over there in Sweden, holy shit!

#2 I'm fucking psyched for this card. I want to see Wonderboy SMASH Woodley. And Woodley will blame the negative responses on his skin color because he's soft but his personality just screams "punch me in the face and pay to see it happen this time!" Interim LW championship? WTF? McGregor FOR SURE is going to come back and fight at 155, why the interim?

Lando is turning into one of my favorite fighters for sure. If he can get a solid winning streak going and build his name up more, he'll be fighting for a title in 2018 for sure.

[Mark Hammer]

Pulling for Wonderboy but I think Woodley will pull it off and continue his heel champion run.

[Nash Diesel]

Wonderboy does the j-o-b, Maia comes in for the feel good 40 year old winning his first UFC title story?

Here's a thought....GSP v. the LOSER of Woodley-Wonderboy and if he wins he gets the title shot against the winner of MAIA v. whoever....

[Mark Hammer]

3 year layoff or not Georges deserves someone who is in good form.

[Nash Diesel]

I agree. A top 10 guy or a veteran who can still go that is a draw. I like the idea of GSP v. Silva at catchweight. 175-180. I'm just holding on to that "dream fight" even if it's about 6 years too late but hey, so was Iceman v. Wanderlai and I fucking LOVE that fight. One of the best of all time.

GSP @ 170 v. any of the names we've mentioned would be great.

[OD50]

Wouldn't surprise me if GSP get the Woodley/Wonderboy winner, or how about GSP/Robbie Lawler? Lawler is ranked #3 and if GSP beats him a title fight would make sense.

[OD50]

2 things...#1 OD50 I hope you guys are doing ok over there in Sweden, holy shit!
No worries, if the Swedish government and the mainstream media says that Trump is lying who are we to say otherwise?

These videos are clearly CGI..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QMe0Wou5HI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWWelIUMCDk

I just happen to live a few kilometers from the (latest) riots so what would I know..

[Fanny Batter]

Great card.

Woodley vs. Wonderboy 2 I feel is Thompson's to lose. He's got more in his toolbox than Woodley and now has 25 minutes of fighting experience against him. He'll make the adjustments needed, commit more to his strikes and stop T-Wood in my opinion. Woodley has got that lights out power but is predictable with what he throws and if Wonderboy has improved his TDD he'll grow in confidence. Of course Tyron can land, but we've seen Wonderboy can take it, so favour the more talented fighter.

Ferguson vs. Khabib is an amazing fight. I like that it's been booked twice before with both being replacements, feels like it's been on the slate for the 18 months, an inevitability that they would fight for a title shot. Which this is. The bonus is that it's a 5 rounder on a big card, so the interim tag is worth it for that. Have no idea how the fight goes. Logic says Khabib because his top game is crushing and Ferguson's style may gift him takedowns - but Ferguson is CRAFTY off his back with elbows and submission attempts. He went a hard 5 rounds at altitude with RDA too whereas Khabib hasn't fought beyond a third round yet. A dominant Khabib win for me sets up globally the biggest fight in UFC history with McGregor - I think even Conor underestimates how big that fight would be - the embodiment of the capitalist culture, best shit talker in the industry against an unstoppable, cyborg Russian who can talk too. That would be a giant event.

Rashad against Dan Kelly of all people is interesting. Kelly is tough but very limited, and quite old, so hopefully Rashad can come back with a win. I think he's past his best, long since gone, but if he can get a W he can get himself matched up with fellow former titlists in Anderson, Vitor, Machida, even Bisping if he loses the title, big legacy fights. Who knows, maybe he could get in the title mix with a couple of wins against those guys? Alas, at this stage in his career he deserves big fights, hopefully this is the catalyst and not the end.

Lando vs. Teymur is a good action fight. Lando's become a quick fan favourite with his loose style but Teymur comes to finish too. Should be fireworks while it lasts, but I see Lando ending it inside the distance.

Overeem vs. Hunt - guessing it's not third fight down because Hunt won't film for a Countdown show? Odd placement. Great fight though. Heavyweights. Both vulnerable nowadays. Overeem always has been. If I were to guess I would say Overeem goes back to Econoreem and pot shots on the outside while mixing in takedowns from the clinch. But he could just get twatted. Basically a pick em fight.

Some good prospects on the prelims. Sanders vs. Alcantara is a great test for Sanders, Yuri looked great last time. Likewise Mirsad Bektic who looks a potential future champ against a spoiler in Elkins.

[Nash Diesel]

I agree FB. GLOBALLY I don't think a lot of people including McGregor realize how big a fight with him v. Khabib could be. We're so focused on our side of the globe that we don't think about the entire planet and how many people live in countries like Russia and China. Imagine if the UFC were able to build a top guy that was Chinese? Holy fuck.

[Fanny Batter]

Yeah, Khabib has a huge fanbase and it's growing. Going by Instagram, obviously Rousey and McGregor are way ahead of the pack, then Anderson, then Khabib is up there with Jon Jones and eclipsing the Miesha Tate's, Nate Diaz's and GSP's of the world. A win against Ferguson and a big promo after - it's going to grow and grow. He'll be 25-0. TWENTY FIVE. It would be a gigantic 2 million buy job easy. Such a culturally relevant spectacle too, you can just envision it getting a bit nasty in the build up with such ideological differences between the two.

[Percussion]

Dana should invite Putin to a Khabib/McGregor title fight.

Spec. ta. cle.

[Nash Diesel]

Khabib's a realist with the shit talk as well. He's very cut and dry, to the point, and if you find something comical or entertaining, it wasn't intentional it's just how he is. Kind of like Nate or Nick Diaz. They're not out there playing a character, that is them, the cameras go off it's the same dudes. McGregor would be good poking fun at Khabib, I'm sure he'll have some zingers about Khabib fighting bears. But Khabib is different from a lot of Russian fighters I've seen. Most are literally just like Fedor. Very calm, reserved, might crack a joke or a smile but then you have Khabib and he's a little over the top but it works. He's like a smart ass right hand man of a main bad guy in a US v. Terrorist movie.

[virms]

Hoping overeem knocks hunt's block off in the first round the whiny cunt.

[Nash Diesel]

Hoping overeem knocks hunt's block off in the first round the whiny cunt.

On one hand he does have a point. His last 3 fights the opponent tested positive but it was only until he lost to Lesnar that he got angry about it. Now he accepts a fight with Overeem and mind you he's only failed one test in his career to our knowledge but I get it. What I don't like though is Hunt acting like he was FORCED to fight Overeem. He said that he had to or his family would starve or some shit which makes you wonder, what the fuck is this guy doing with his money? He's had like 10 bonuses, all north of 50,000.....and he probably makes 100-200,000 a fight at least.....

[Mark Hammer]

The beautiful accent makes his whininess tolerable imo.

[Mark Hammer]

On one hand he does have a point. His last 3 fights the opponent tested positive but it was only until he lost to Lesnar that he got angry about it. Now he accepts a fight with Overeem and mind you he's only failed one test in his career to our knowledge but I get it. What I don't like though is Hunt acting like he was FORCED to fight Overeem. He said that he had to or his family would starve or some shit which makes you wonder, what the fuck is this guy doing with his money? He's had like 10 bonuses, all north of 50,000.....and he probably makes 100-200,000 a fight at least.....

He knew all along what he was signing up for vs Brock. He decided that the UFC 200 main/co-main slot (or whatever, it was a weird card) was worth the hassle so no right to complain now.

[Nash Diesel]

He knew all along what he was signing up for vs Brock. He decided that the UFC 200 main/co-main slot (or whatever, it was a weird card) was worth the hassle so no right to complain now.

Hunt's probably been fighting juiced up fighters his entire combat sports career. Dating back to K-1. You're right, he was looking for a big pay day.

[virms]

So we are all in agreement Overeem needs to knock his block off. Excellent.

[Nash Diesel]

Honestly, I'm rooting for Hunt lol. Not a big fan of Overeem.

[Mik]

What the fuck are you guys on about? Regardless of whether Hunt had his inkling about whether Lesnar was on steroids and irrelevant of whether he has fought people on peds in the past he is absolutely in the right here. There is firm reason to believe that the UFC not just knowingly allowed Lesnar to fight while on peds, but actually bent their own testing rules in order to facilitate him fighting whilst cheating. Regardless of Hunt's motivations, he is absolutely not the one in the wrong here and his main argument (other than wanting some of lesnar'a purse), is fundamentally right, if you sacrifice some of your purse to someone because you've failed to make weight then you fucking definitely should if you piss hot, it's just inarguable and indefensible. I don't see how Hunt is whining by fighting for that. Then he's being blackballed by the UFC, offered another notorious ped abuser because it makes Hunt's court case weaker. He might be using superlatives to describe it, but a fighter's career is short and expensive, there is no real health care once you're cut (which will probably happen if he loses or after the court case concludes), he's in an exclusive contract where he can't make any money fighting elsewhere and he does need to earn as much money as he can while he is still able to fight, which at his age might not be for very long.

The very fact that generally people have turned against Hunt is entirely symptomatic of why the UFC fighters will never get a fair deal with how shit their fans are. He's the definition of a fan friendly fighter. Sloberknocker fighter, highlight reel knock outs, almight chin, blue collar guy, could've taken his money and ran but wanted to keep fighting (which is a narrative that will no doubt get altered now), takes on all comers, always puts on a show...yet as soon as he quite rightly criticised the UFC for enabling fucking cheating, or at the very least turning a blind eye to it, in a fist fight, where someone can by definition get hurt, he's a cry baby and a whiner.

If Hunt doesn't entirely have your sympathy in this matter you need to question whether you're an mma fan or a UFC fan, and whether you're actually a fan of the fighters, because it's their rights that are being exploited and that's the wider issue of what Hunt is fighting against. If fighters had to sign a contract to say that they would retrospectively sacrifice their wage if they popped hot, that would be a bigger discouragement of using peds than almost any they have implemented so far. Yet so many people are on the side of the cheating lying millionaire who despite cheating and lying about it got to take the lions share of his money home.

[Percussion]

Mik 1, Hunt haters 0

[The Rogerer]

But how else am I meant to get erect?

[Mark Hammer]

What the fuck are you guys on about? Regardless of whether Hunt had his inkling about whether Lesnar was on steroids and irrelevant of whether he has fought people on peds in the past he is absolutely in the right here. There is firm reason to believe that the UFC not just knowingly allowed Lesnar to fight while on peds, but actually bent their own testing rules in order to facilitate him fighting whilst cheating. Regardless of Hunt's motivations, he is absolutely not the one in the wrong here and his main argument (other than wanting some of lesnar'a purse), is fundamentally right, if you sacrifice some of your purse to someone because you've failed to make weight then you fucking definitely should if you piss hot, it's just inarguable and indefensible. I don't see how Hunt is whining by fighting for that. Then he's being blackballed by the UFC, offered another notorious ped abuser because it makes Hunt's court case weaker. He might be using superlatives to describe it, but a fighter's career is short and expensive, there is no real health care once you're cut (which will probably happen if he loses or after the court case concludes), he's in an exclusive contract where he can't make any money fighting elsewhere and he does need to earn as much money as he can while he is still able to fight, which at his age might not be for very long.

The very fact that generally people have turned against Hunt is entirely symptomatic of why the UFC fighters will never get a fair deal with how shit their fans are. He's the definition of a fan friendly fighter. Sloberknocker fighter, highlight reel knock outs, almight chin, blue collar guy, could've taken his money and ran but wanted to keep fighting (which is a narrative that will no doubt get altered now), takes on all comers, always puts on a show...yet as soon as he quite rightly criticised the UFC for enabling fucking cheating, or at the very least turning a blind eye to it, in a fist fight, where someone can by definition get hurt, he's a cry baby and a whiner.

If Hunt doesn't entirely have your sympathy in this matter you need to question whether you're an mma fan or a UFC fan, and whether you're actually a fan of the fighters, because it's their rights that are being exploited and that's the wider issue of what Hunt is fighting against. If fighters had to sign a contract to say that they would retrospectively sacrifice their wage if they popped hot, that would be a bigger discouragement of using peds than almost any they have implemented so far. Yet so many people are on the side of the cheating lying millionaire who despite cheating and lying about it got to take the lions share of his money home.

Hey knew all along that Brock was on something and willingly signed because he wanted that spot on the card. If he'd have won (and everyone was certain he was going to, peds or not) he wouldn't be complaining in every single interview about how Brock takes steroids, he'd just be slagging off his industry and all it's performers.

[OD50]

Reem will have to be ultra careful in this one, I have a feeling he will go down if Hunt's fist as much as brushes his face. His best bet is to try to replicate their first fight I guess.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGzOqzN-cns

[Fanny Batter]

You've got to wonder how Overeem comes back after the Miocic fight. He's obviously resilient and has bounced back from devastating losses before, but that was the big one. Is he in the mood of "I dropped the champion, 2 fights and I can get back in there", or is he fighting because that's his job and that's what he knows what to do? He's got the skillset to toast Mark Hunt particularly now his chin has faded, but does he want it? Big fight. If he wins I can see him getting Cain Velasquez fight, a big fight that he would get up for. But he needs to get through Hunt first. And for Hunt, he inexplicably goes back into the top 5 with a win and possibly goes a fight away from a title shot too. But does he want it either? The more I think about it the more I understand it's positioning, massive fight on paper but it could be 2 guys coming in for the paycheck.

[Spedizzo]

Khabib's a realist with the shit talk as well. He's very cut and dry, to the point, and if you find something comical or entertaining, it wasn't intentional it's just how he is. Kind of like Nate or Nick Diaz. They're not out there playing a character, that is them, the cameras go off it's the same dudes. McGregor would be good poking fun at Khabib, I'm sure he'll have some zingers about Khabib fighting bears. But Khabib is different from a lot of Russian fighters I've seen. Most are literally just like Fedor. Very calm, reserved, might crack a joke or a smile but then you have Khabib and he's a little over the top but it works. He's like a smart ass right hand man of a main bad guy in a US v. Terrorist movie.

yeah so was Eddie Alvarez, he was supposed to show us that Santa Clause isn't real. He's the underground king, no one's faced someone like him before yadadadada

head.clean.off

flawless victory

[Spedizzo]

double post

[Spedizzo]

in all seriousness I acknowledge Khabib is a different fighter, and his shit talk is absolutely awesome.

Tony is a tough match, I can't wait for the fight

[Nash Diesel]

Alvarez had flaws though. What are Khabib's? Injury prone? We don't really know. I've seen Eddie hurt several times, seen him finished several times. Conor is also a beast at 155, he had the perfect fight. I see McGregor v. Khabib or Tony being a toss up which will make for a more interesting fight as opposed to looking at it like Khabib is just going to maul McGregor or Tony's going to throw something wild and catch him or Conor is going to take them out with ease with a left. McGregor's been living up to the hype nicely so nobody is going to give this guy an easy fight and that's what it needs to be for him. I just think it's stupid for it to be an interim title fight BUT I understand that they think the only way to get 5 rounds is to either have them main event or create an interim belt...Why they can't make the fight simply a 5 round is beyond me.

[Fanny Batter]

Conor offers concussive power, an expert knowledge of range and the self belief that he can KO anybody with a pulse. Khabib may very well crush him, but on paper it's no less than a 50/50 fight based on those attributes Conor possesses. It's the kind of fight that makes your balls tingle because it's a true pick em fight between 2 of the best.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't want us to write off Tony. There's a reason that guy went on such a long winning streak and looked pretty damn good doing so. Ferguson is going into this fight with a little less pressure than Khabib so he might fight a little more loose, a little less hesitant-which if you watch his fights I can't really think of many where he didn't go balls out. Personally, I want to see all 3 of these men fight each other, not a bad fight any way you slice it on paper.

[Percussion]

Really no clue how much pressure Tony's got on himself here. He could be loose as fuck or he could feel like there'll be no other chance like this and completely up against it.

[Nash Diesel]

That's true. He could look at it like, look how many fights I had to win to get to this point? Most people don't get a 2nd chance unless you fight at 205 or HW where the divisions are pretty thin with the elite talent.

[Percussion]

And though I'm strongly in the Khabib camp here, I by no means want to write off Tony. I'm looking forward to this fight more than the WW do-over.

[Spedizzo]

Alvarez had flaws though. What are Khabib's? Injury prone? We don't really know. I've seen Eddie hurt several times, seen him finished several times. Conor is also a beast at 155, he had the perfect fight. I see McGregor v. Khabib or Tony being a toss up which will make for a more interesting fight as opposed to looking at it like Khabib is just going to maul McGregor or Tony's going to throw something wild and catch him or Conor is going to take them out with ease with a left. McGregor's been living up to the hype nicely so nobody is going to give this guy an easy fight and that's what it needs to be for him. I just think it's stupid for it to be an interim title fight BUT I understand that they think the only way to get 5 rounds is to either have them main event or create an interim belt...Why they can't make the fight simply a 5 round is beyond me.

Khabib's flaws are that he has a flyweight's reach advantage compared to Ferguson and Conor, and before he mentally molests people on the ground, he looks very amateurish on his feet until he gets a hold of you (kind of like Maia from years ago)

Ferguson is a very tough match stylistically for Khabib because Ferguson has a huge reach advantage, and if he can hold his own grappling - which he very well could cause he is quite the grappler (obviously not on Khabibs level), his unorthodox style of striking will pose a serious threat to Khabib

obviously Khabib can potentially take Ferguson down and maul him like he does everyone, but it isn't as clear cut as people make it out to be

[Mik]

I think that the Ferguson vs Khabib fight is going to be a surprise one way or the other, I think it's going to be a fairly clear cut fight where either Khabib will get to enforce his game and will dominate Ferguson on the ground, or Tony will dominate Khabib on the feet. I think probably the former though.


Hey knew all along that Brock was on something and willingly signed because he wanted that spot on the card. If he'd have won (and everyone was certain he was going to, peds or not) he wouldn't be complaining in every single interview about how Brock takes steroids, he'd just be slagging off his industry and all it's performers.

That does not matter at all. That's part of the promotion of the fight game. There is a big difference between assuming that someone is on something and then knowing for certain that not only were they on something, but that the supposedly impartial bosses had bent the rules (and not for the first time either) to ensure that he would be able to be on something. Win or lose if you're fighting someone who didn't stick to the rules and gained an unfair advantage by failing to make weight...you get a percentage of the purse. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever that cheating in an illegal way and giving yourself a bigger illegal doesn't result in the same thing. Why do you get a cut of their purse if they weigh over? Because you are taking on added risk and danger and you're conceeding a major advantage to your opponent...thats even more the case with someone who has been on peds!


You've got to wonder how Overeem comes back after the Miocic fight. He's obviously resilient and has bounced back from devastating losses before, but that was the big one. Is he in the mood of "I dropped the champion, 2 fights and I can get back in there", or is he fighting because that's his job and that's what he knows what to do? He's got the skillset to toast Mark Hunt particularly now his chin has faded, but does he want it? Big fight. If he wins I can see him getting Cain Velasquez fight, a big fight that he would get up for. But he needs to get through Hunt first. And for Hunt, he inexplicably goes back into the top 5 with a win and possibly goes a fight away from a title shot too. But does he want it either? The more I think about it the more I understand it's positioning, massive fight on paper but it could be 2 guys coming in for the paycheck.

I'm not sure how much Hunt's chin has declined. He got dropped with the clip to the top of the head by Dos Santos, which as we saw with Travis Browne last week can be hugely discombobulating and he ate an absolute monster knee from Werdum. Other than that he's still taken a lot of punishment and kept going, even after the knockout. He ate an unprecedented amount of shots from Stipe who is the heavyweight champ with proven knockout power and was only TKO'ed from attrition really and that was a fight he took at hugely short notice when he cut a ridiculous amount of weight.

He has one of the oddest records in the UFC heavyweight division. First fight beaten by Sean McCorkle in 1 minute by arm bar, then KOs Chris Tuchscherer, beats Ben Rothwell after hitting him with everything but the kitchen sink shortly before Rothwell goes on a tear, sparks out Cheick Kongo and Stephan Struve (after Struve had just beaten the current champ), draw to bigfoot Silva and loss to Brock Lesnar should've both been overturned to wins, kocks out Roy Nelson (only second person ever to do that), knocks out Bigfoot Silva in the rematch (demonstrating why the first draw should've been over-turned to a win, because that was the real Bigfoot without peds), sparks out Frank Mir and his only three clear losses since his first win in the UFC have been by JDS, Werdum and Stipe...all of whom are or were HW champs. Crazy.

I love Overeem, but I want Hunt to take this one. If he's motivated I think Hunt has too many ways to win, I don't see Overeem kickboxing with Hunt, so either the first goes like the first one or Hunt catches Reem against the cage and it's lights out.

[Mark Hammer]

yeah so was Eddie Alvarez, he was supposed to show us that Santa Clause isn't real. He's the underground king, no one's faced someone like him before yadadadada

head.clean.off

flawless victory

I realize selling the fight yadda yadda but a huge risk comes with doing that. If you get clowned (like Eddie did) after talking all that noise it's hard to take you quite as seriously as before.

Tony Ferguson has it coming imo. His trash talk is probably the most annoying of anyone's. You can tell he practices in the mirror but it's not clever at all and he's always so smug about it. I hope Khabib takes care of him so we can get the much bigger fight in him vs Conor.

[Mark Hammer]

I think that the Ferguson vs Khabib fight is going to be a surprise one way or the other, I think it's going to be a fairly clear cut fight where either Khabib will get to enforce his game and will dominate Ferguson on the ground, or Tony will dominate Khabib on the feet. I think probably the former though.



That does not matter at all. That's part of the promotion of the fight game. There is a big difference between assuming that someone is on something and then knowing for certain that not only were they on something, but that the supposedly impartial bosses had bent the rules (and not for the first time either) to ensure that he would be able to be on something. Win or lose if you're fighting someone who didn't stick to the rules and gained an unfair advantage by failing to make weight...you get a percentage of the purse. It makes NO SENSE whatsoever that cheating in an illegal way and giving yourself a bigger illegal doesn't result in the same thing. Why do you get a cut of their purse if they weigh over? Because you are taking on added risk and danger and you're conceeding a major advantage to your opponent...thats even more the case with someone who has been on peds!



I'm not sure how much Hunt's chin has declined. He got dropped with the clip to the top of the head by Dos Santos, which as we saw with Travis Browne last week can be hugely discombobulating and he ate an absolute monster knee from Werdum. Other than that he's still taken a lot of punishment and kept going, even after the knockout. He ate an unprecedented amount of shots from Stipe who is the heavyweight champ with proven knockout power and was only TKO'ed from attrition really and that was a fight he took at hugely short notice when he cut a ridiculous amount of weight.

He has one of the oddest records in the UFC heavyweight division. First fight beaten by Sean McCorkle in 1 minute by arm bar, then KOs Chris Tuchscherer, beats Ben Rothwell after hitting him with everything but the kitchen sink shortly before Rothwell goes on a tear, sparks out Cheick Kongo and Stephan Struve (after Struve had just beaten the current champ), draw to bigfoot Silva and loss to Brock Lesnar should've both been overturned to wins, kocks out Roy Nelson (only second person ever to do that), knocks out Bigfoot Silva in the rematch (demonstrating why the first draw should've been over-turned to a win, because that was the real Bigfoot without peds), sparks out Frank Mir and his only three clear losses since his first win in the UFC have been by JDS, Werdum and Stipe...all of whom are or were HW champs. Crazy.

I love Overeem, but I want Hunt to take this one. If he's motivated I think Hunt has too many ways to win, I don't see Overeem kickboxing with Hunt, so either the first goes like the first one or Hunt catches Reem against the cage and it's lights out.

I think it was vs Werdum when Hunt was on short notice in Mexico. And I can't agree with any scenario in which his loss to Lesnar is overturned to a win. NC maybe but not a win. He was on his back getting pounded on for the better part of 15 minutes.

[Nash Diesel]

I honestly would like to hear why they give your opponent 20% of your purse if you miss weight but not if your opponent fails a drug test. Like, I could see them not doing it when it's out of competition but let's say you fail a drug test given within 2 weeks before and after the fight, I think some sort of compensation should be made to the fighter who didn't fail. Just like the fighter who makes weight gets your money if you don't, why is this any different. Good idea buddy.

[Mik]

I think it was vs Werdum when Hunt was on short notice in Mexico. And I can't agree with any scenario in which his loss to Lesnar is overturned to a win. NC maybe but not a win. He was on his back getting pounded on for the better part of 15 minutes.

They were both short notice fights. Hunt has taken quite a lot of short notice fights for the UFC. I think if your opponent was cheating with performance enhancing drugs your fight should be overturned into a win for you and a loss to your opponent on the basis that they were disqualified from the competition. The amount of people whose records have asterisks because someone else decided to cheat. If they obviously cheated inside of the ring and for disqualified you would win (haha as if that would happen! You can eye poke all fight, repeatedly low blow, punch after the bell in a championship fight etc...who ever gets disqualified in this sport?! They rarely even actually take points away), so finding out retrospectively that they cheated during the fight shouldn't be any different to me.

[Fanny Batter]

Anybody been watching the Embedded's? Khabib is coming off great, something endearing about his sense of humour with his slightly broken English. Really hope he wins on Saturday, it's a great fight in itself but 25-0 Khabib against double champion Conor? Holy shit.

[Mark Hammer]

Khabib's shtick is absolutely endearing. There's an MMA news channel on Youtube that I'm subscribed to and the videos all end with a clip of someone doing something stupid/hurting themselves in a combat sport or gym situation followed by a short interview clip of Khabib saying "This is number one bullshit" in his heavy accent. I fucking love him down to his silly hat and how he puts it on Rogan's head for his interviews. Hopefully he crushes Ferguson and gets the big money fight with Conor. I won't have a favorite either, I'll just be able to enjoy two of my favorites in possibly the biggest MMA fight of all time.

[Fanny Batter]

AKA strikes again. Khabib out with weight cutting issues. That's all 4 of the top guys in that camp pulling out of a fight in the last 4 months.

[Mark Hammer]

Are you fucking kidding me.

[Percussion]

Motherfuckingfucker.

[Nash Diesel]

Dude is so lucky he has that win streak he has. I'd cut this dude if the stakes weren't so high. Feel for Tony. This win would have no doubt locked him up against McGregor. To be honest, I'd give him the title shot against McGregor and tell Khabib to go fuck himself.

[Mark Hammer]

Why couldn't they just make it catchweight with the added stipulation that only Ferguson was eligible to win their retarded interim title? I thought Hendricks/Lawler and Pettis/Holloway set that precedent anyways.

[Nash Diesel]

Why couldn't they just make it catchweight with the added stipulation that only Ferguson was eligible to win their retarded interim title? I thought Hendricks/Lawler and Pettis/Holloway set that precedent anyways.

Because Khabib was deemed medically unfit to even weigh in so it wasn't really a matter of him coming in at like 159....They didn't let him weigh in period.

[Mark Hammer]

Seriously what the fuck. Khabib just fucked his career. He was on the cusp.

[Fanny Batter]

I think if Ferguson can make the weight again so soon, maybe put him against Chiesa or Alvarez for the interim title on UFC 210. He deserves to fight. Khabib is done again for ages thanks to Ramadan.

[Nash Diesel]

Here's the thing....They gifted Tyron Woodley a title shot because he was supposed to fight Hendricks but Hendricks was hospitalized due to a bad weight cut. So Tyron sat on his ass with his biggest win being a split decision against #17 ranked Kelvin and now he's the champ. Tony has defeated 9 men, very tough men, and Khabib has barely fought in the last 3-4 years. Let's give Tony the title shot and Khabib can face someone else in the meantime like Alvarez or Nate Diaz.

[Mark Hammer]

Or just fuck an interim LW title. I'd like Ferguson to fight soon but coming off a win over RDA is enough to warrant him fighting Conor when he comes back anyways.

Unless they could somehow work out Ferguson vs Diaz first. I wouldn't complain at all.

[Nash Diesel]

Ferguson should either be fighting Khabib for the shot against McGregor or just give the man the shot against McGregor. He made weight. If Tyron can be gifted a title shot for the same reason, why not Tony? Fuck this interim bullshit as well. McGregor wins the belt 4 months ago and they want to create an interim title for a co-main event fight lol. I hate interim titles as it is but this time was just fucking stupid.

[Mark Hammer]

I agree with every bit of that and I can't stand Ferguson (outside of the cage at least). They should give up on booking this fight. That was the 4th time they tried correct? And with the highest stakes yet. Fuck Tony/Khabib. Give Ferguson Conor or give him a big money keep-busy fight like Diaz or Alvarez in the meantime. I won't hate on the man if he decides to wait for a guarantee vs risking it like Maia but I wouldn't mind seeing him cement his claim one more time with violence. He's fun to watch.

[Nash Diesel]

I agree with every bit of that and I can't stand Ferguson (outside of the cage at least). They should give up on booking this fight. That was the 4th time they tried correct? And with the highest stakes yet. Fuck Tony/Khabib. Give Ferguson Conor or give him a big money keep-busy fight like Diaz or Alvarez in the meantime. I won't hate on the man if he decides to wait for a guarantee vs risking it like Maia but I wouldn't mind seeing him cement his claim one more time with violence. He's fun to watch.

For sure man. I mean I get that he doesn't have Russia behind him, he's not colorful like McGregor, he's a little under the radar for the mainstream but he's exactly the type of fighter in terms of style that can draw people in. He might not get a 1.7 million ppv buyrate but I could see him getting to a 500-600k buyrate on his own one day. I think if he was to fight in the meantime you'd have to put him in there with someone who if they beat him you could make a strong argument as to why they're going to face Conor next. Diaz really is the only guy I could see in that role.

Part of me thinks though that they'll just reschedule this again for the next UFC ppv. It's a shame, these are the top 2 guys who should be contending for a shot at McGregor. Yes, Diaz has a claim when factoring in he's 1-1 against McGregor at WW, the draw it would be obviously but in terms of rankings, Tony and Khabib are at the top.

[Nash Diesel]

Michael Johnson has been offered to replace Khabib on 24 hour notice. There are a few things to iron out but this could possibly be going down. This is crazy. Johnson I believe was Ferguson's last loss right? I don't know man. Johnson beats Ferguson then what?

[Mark Hammer]

Then no choice but to run Conor/Nate 3 (if not Conor/Floyd) when he gets back. War Johnson.

[Nash Diesel]

Then no choice but to run Conor/Nate 3 (if not Conor/Floyd) when he gets back. War Johnson.

lol.

No! WAR TONY!!

[Fanny Batter]

Lando's co-main eventing over the Rashad fight and Overeem vs. Hunt?! Dafuq.

[Mark Hammer]

Tony will definitely have a claim at Conor coming off a second win over Lando Vannata. Was Derek Horcher or whatever it was busy?

Rashad looks great at 185 btw. I mean his body, no homo (well maybe a little homo).

[Mik]

Incredibly annoyed about yet another good card being ruined by an aka guy. Another guy who is clearly too big for the division not getting his weight cut right. I also think that it'll just be rescheduled for the next ppv. To be fair it is still a decent card for this one.

[Mik]

The thing is there is no point giving ferguson the shot straight away, McGregor might not be back for ages yet. I don't think the pull of someone who didn't even have to fight to win an interim championship is going to motivate him to jump away from a possible floyd or superfight.

[Mark Hammer]

Another reason to run Diaz vs Ferguson. Conor will undoubtedly be paying attention and it's a fight Nate would probably take if in a main event slot on FOX or co-headlining a title fight on PPV, preferably for a stupid interim just so we can get 5 rounds. Winner would have a pretty undeniable claim at Conor.

[Fanny Batter]

In PPV main event situations, I'm an advocate of having a fight on the card that can be altered if a main event or co-main eventer went down. This card could have had, say, the Edson Barboza vs. Beneil Dariush fight scheduled for next week on it with one of them moving up to fight Ferguson or Nurmagomedov in a circumstance like this. There's no added expense on the company's side as the "show money" one of the guys would get for being left out last minute would be countered by not having to pay Khabib. Economically and logically it would make a load of sense. Also Demian Maia against maybe a Tarec Saffiedine level keep busy fight. Then you shift Alcantara vs. Sanders to Brazil to fill that gap.

Occasionally they get it right. Cruz/Garbrandt and Dillashaw/Lineker on the same card, and the upcoming one where Werdum is under Stipe/JDS. It should be all the time.

[Mark Hammer]

Amanda Cooper has a tight arse doesn't she?

[Mark Hammer]

So far this main event sucks.

[Mark Hammer]

That fight was garbage. Imagine paying 60 dollars for this event.

[Fanny Batter]

That was a shit fight. Wonderboy was terrified of Woodley's power and basically did everything he could to steal enough rounds to win. And Woodley was terrified of getting pieced on the counter so refused to commit. It wasn't a tactically great fight as that involves trying to implement your game on your opponent; this was all about nullifying the opponent, offence be damned. For both men. At least Woodley hurt him. I'd have probably scored the fight 49-48 as rounds 1 and 2 had nothing. Woodley round 3 with the takedown, Wonderboy round 4 for the headkick, Woodley round 5 for the knockdowns. I'm glad Wonderboy didn't get the nod, he did the bare minimum.

[Mark Hammer]

Don't even ask me to score that, I'd call it 0-0. Nothing happened at all outside of an inconsequential takedown in one of the rounds and Tyron's flurry in the final 20 seconds of round 5. Fucking awful, disgraceful "performance" by the supposed top 2 welterweights in the world. GSP's return couldn't have happened at a better time... and it's in the wrong division.

[OD50]

Shit what a shitty shitfest. Good job by Teymur.

[Mik]

Very poor card all in all.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Expectations a week going in vs. what we got the night of the card was pretty stark.

[Fanny Batter]

The Alcantara/Saunders and Bektic/Elkins fights were fun at least.

It was probably the worst possible week for the UFC. Going in you're thinking rematch of a FOTY, unbeaten potential superstar against TUF winner on 9 fight win streak, potential breakout star Lando building some momentum, Rashad Evans getting back on track in a new weight class, 2 unbeaten prospects getting top 15 wins. It all went fucking tits up. Woodley's next title fight is a tough sell after that. Will the buying public trust Khabib to turn up again? Rashad is done, but lost to an old, unaesthetic Aussie with a basic style, unsellable. Lando is 1-2. Mark Hunt is surely done. Both 0's went (admittedly in great fights) against guys who falter against ranked opponents. The only positive was The Reem really.

[virms]

Fucking hell those knees by overeem.

[Mark Hammer]

So what is everyone's thoughts on the judge that scored round 5 10-8 for Woodley?Pretty dumb imo, 10-8s are for dominant rounds where someone is nearly finished. Not for moments when something finally happens after 25 minutes of stalling.

[Mik]

Problem with Reem is that you know exactly where you are with him. He can kill anyone with his offence, but if he gets rocked at any point its over.

[Mik]

So what is everyone's thoughts on the judge that scored R5 10-8 Woodley. Pretty dumb imo, 10-8s are for dominant rounds where someone is nearly finished. Not for moments when something finally happens after 25 minutes of stalling. A proper scoring would have resulted in another draw though and fuck me I never want to see these two go at it again.

It was another example of the difficulty with the judging. I thought Wonderboy took a slim victory in 1, 2 and 4 and Woodley won 3 and 5 more decisively. Another draw would've been terrible after such a stinking fight. I think that they just decided to fiddle their cards so that the more damaging fighter won. Woodley got 40 seconds worth of offence in that final round. I think if he hadn't he would've love 4 rounds to 1, because he did he won three rounds to two. Doesn't make a lot of sense but I think that everyone was so disappointed with both of them and the fight that ultimately nobody really cared who won, we just didn't want to see it again.

[virms]

Problem with Reem is that you know exactly where you are with him. He can kill anyone with his offence, but if he gets rocked at any point its over.

From the highlights I seen overeem got rocked a few times.

[Fanny Batter]

I think contextually it was a 10-8 round in that fight, with a 10 point must system. If you HAVE to give somebody 10-9 for those first 2 rounds, it was a 10-8 in comparison. So I had it a draw under a must system but Woodley by 1 if 10-10's were allowed.

[OD50]

Problem with Reem is that you know exactly where you are with him. He can kill anyone with his offence, but if he gets rocked at any point its over.
I was surprised how well he took those elbows from Hunt. Fatality via knees is old school Overeem though.

I was shocked that Rogan and Cruz were debating who would get the decision in the Teymur/Lando fight, I had it pretty clearly 3-0 for Teymur.


From the highlights I seen overeem got rocked a few times.
He ate some solid shots, especially those elbows.

[OD50]

Really impressed with Elkins, he was getting killed for the entire match until the end. Great job. :yes:

[Mark Hammer]

They need to not feed marketable undefeated prospects to Darren Elkins though. He's the Jon Fitch of FW minus the top ranking.

[Fanny Batter]

For somebody that chewed up boxer-wrestlers in Hendricks and Ellenberger, I would have thought Wonderboy would land something to hurt Woodley in FIFTY minutes of fighting. Like I get that Woodley hits hard and is a big takedown threat, but why did Thompson not put anything together? Like how could he not see that Woodley wouldn't have been able to fight even a 15 minute fight full of grappling? Use your kicks, if you get land you hurt him, if you get taken down you deplete his tank. Just baffling.

[OD50]

Absolutely dreadful fight, gave me flashbacks to Takada/Bernardo. Couldn't care less who won and who lost.

[Nash Diesel]

I didn't get to see the main event but the way it's being described is a cross between Sylvia-Arlovski 3 and the end to Gonzaga/Jordan only without the finish lol. Shame too. Sherdog had a good match making idea. Scrap Masvidal-Maia, do Maia v. Woodley. How about Masvidal v. Wonderboy?

[Mark Hammer]

Yeah, Maia/Masvidal was a stupid mistake. I'd love to watch the enormous (at WW) Maia squeeze Woodley like a python during the same timeframe as GSP's return in July.

This fight was so bad that I wouldn't be surprised if their first encounter isn't viewed as fondly in the future. That was a great fight but it lead us to Saturday night...

You have to imagine that had Khabib not dropped the ball the ppv would have gone from trash to at least decent. The post-match callout of Conor from either guy would have made the event somewhat redeemable.

[Nash Diesel]

I was sad to see ABC lose. G'damn she's fine.

Lando losing sucked as well. But that fight was fucking sick! Lando is going to have a nice UFC career if he keeps pulling out performances like that. You usually get to drop about 5 fights with that kind of style before getting cut lol.

Hunt-Overeem, holy shit that finish on Hunt....I think that the time is now for Cain V v. Overeem. That's another dream match I'd like to see go down before Cain's next layoff.

[Percussion]

Are there any women MMA'ists that you don't think are fine?

And by all means, go to bonertown for each and every one of 'em if you like, just curious is all..

[Mark Hammer]

Cooper isn't really "fine" but her ass is on point and in fairness to ND she's much better looking than Cyborg, Esparza, Shuvchenko, or Fallon Fox.

[Mark Hammer]

Hunt-Overeem, holy shit that finish on Hunt....I think that the time is now for Cain V v. Overeem. That's another dream match I'd like to see go down before Cain's next layoff.

I always wanted to see Cain vs Overeem but moreso when Cain was champ and Overeem hadn't taken a million brutal losses in the UFC.

Stipe/Cain is much more appealing to me and seeing how he fights once a year max I'd like to see that in 2017.

[Fanny Batter]

I would say there's 5 players after Stipe/JDS - Werdum (matched with Rothwell), The Reem, Cain, Black Beast and Ngannou. Logic I guess would be you match your big stars in Reem and Cain and your rising stars in Ngannou and Lewis. Personally I would put the latter 2 in other fights though - Werdum gets the winner of the title fight, then the Reem/Cain winner, so it's going to be Summer next year at the earliest before one of them gets a shot. May as well run Black Beast against Struve and match Ngannou with one of the 4 losers from 211.

[Mark Hammer]

I would keep Ngannou and Black Beast away from each other. No need for one to cancel the other when there is no interesting rematch at the top of HW outside of MAYBE Stipe/Struve and even that is a stretch.

I'm sorry but neither Stipe/Werdum 2 or JDS/Werdum 2 is appealing or justified.

[Fanny Batter]

JDS/Werdum was 9 years ago, I don't think that's an unjust rematch at all. I see your logic about Stipe/Werdum though, Miocic put him away early and unless he does something spectacular against Big Ben it's not a fight I'm hyped for.

[Mark Hammer]

JDS/Werdum should JDS lose to Stipe would be fine, I just don't care to see it for a belt when one fight ago removed Werdum was knocked out looking even sillier than when young JDS did it.

[Fanny Batter]

It's not without precedent, Cain got his rematch with JDS a year after getting railroaded in a minute.

The FOX card next month is strong. Mighty Mouse defending against Wilson Reis in his record equalling title defence, Namajumas vs. Karate Hottie in potentially a top contenders fight, and Jacare vs. Whitaker. Jacare being smart, he might be able to jump the queue if he racks up another win.

[Mark Hammer]

Jacare/Whitaker is superb booking.

Namajunas/Hottie I don't know. Rose is dangerous but would be a hard sell to fight JJ after a win over Waterson. Should Hottie win however I'd have to give her the title shot and that would be great though I don't care to see her beautiful face get mangled by the champion.

Nothing against Mouse but I want Reis to beat him. That division desperately needs a shakeup. Record title defenses are great but it's more fun when it's a champ that people are interested in making everyone else look like shite.

[Fanny Batter]

There's nobody at flyweight as fun to watch as Mouse though. Like Dodson and Lineker were great but both have gone up. May as well just let DJ run up the score until somebody has managed to clean out bantamweight.

[Mark Hammer]

I know the opportunity for a superfight would be there should Johnson continue dominating and Garbrandt fend off TJ and Dominick one more time. Undefeated young killer vs the number 1 p4p fighter in the world, champ vs champ would be an easy sell even to headline a ppv. Still does no favors for the 125 division though, it needs some new blood.

[Nash Diesel]

Are there any women MMA'ists that you don't think are fine?

And by all means, go to bonertown for each and every one of 'em if you like, just curious is all..

You ever see Aisling Daly? Yeah, not fine.


Cooper isn't really "fine" but her ass is on point and in fairness to ND she's much better looking than Cyborg, Esparza, Shuvchenko, or Fallon Fox.

Fallon Fox?? Gabi Garcia in full on make up/photoshop mode is about as low as I go homey.

[Spedizzo]

really wanted to see Cain vs. Werdum II and the winner fight Stipe

we might somehow end up with Cain vs. JDS III in all of this for the belt somehow in 2017

[OD50]

IV.

[Nash Diesel]

really wanted to see Cain vs. Werdum II and the winner fight Stipe

we might somehow end up with Cain vs. JDS III in all of this for the belt somehow in 2017

Somehow in 2017? These dudes aren't exactly Big Nog v. Fedor lol. With that said, we'd actually be looking at Cain v. JDS IV

[Spedizzo]

I feel like it was a decade ago when I saw them fighting and Cain taking years off JDS's career

and yes you are right, I meant IV

[Mark Hammer]

Cain/JDS 4 would be so awful and a waste of Cain's yearly fight.

[Nash Diesel]

Cain/JDS 4 would be so awful and a waste of Cain's yearly fight.

The one upside is by the time Cain/JDS 4 would happen, it'd be no earlier than 2018 and that'd be about 4 1/2 years removed from their last fight. But yeah, Cain barely gets to fight once a year, let's try to get him something original for 2017-IF he even fights. There is not one fighter who I could say has had their legacy "wasted" like Cain. His career will for sure be littered with a lot of "what if's?" WHAT IF he had been healthy this entire time....where would his legacy/career be?

[Mark Hammer]

He'd be the HW GOAT, no doubt in my mind.

Right now he would destroy prime Fedor. Cain has made being a fan very frustrating.

[Mik]

It's apples and oranges though, when Fedor was prime someone like Cain couldn't have existed because there wasn't the facilities in place to train someone to make them as well rounded as Cain is. The likes of Fedor and Cro Cop and Big Nog built on the sport to the point where training facilities went full time in specialising in MMA and people who might've traditionally moved into other sports started taking on MMA.

However, Fedor never lost to anyone in his prime. People quite rightly talk about how the heavyweight division is terrible now, but the reality is that most of the top fighters from today would beat most of the top fighters from yesteryear because...see above. However, people like Arlovski, Hunt, Barnett...they'd still be up there long after their prime years were over. In his Prime Fedor beat ALL the top competition around him, no exceptions. He pretty much fought them all and pretty much beat them all. Cain didn't. You can make up whatever excuses you want, whether it be a lucky JDS punch, or not training at the right altitude for long enough against Werdum, but the simple fact is that he had a couple of bad days and got taken out with relative ease both times while he was in his prime years...that never happened to Fedor.

Cain shouldn't really be anywhere near the title picture until he can demonstrate that he can get through at least two training camps and fights in a year. It would also be foolish to put him in a fight that kills off a contender when he might do that and then quite likely be out for another year again, even more foolish to let him do that with a belt. I'd give him a tune up against the likes of Arlovki or Struve and then a 'contenders' match against someone not yet in the title picture like Werdum or Overeem. That gives time for JDS for Stipe to work itself out, gives contenders like Ngannou and Lewis to see if they can get another win or two under their belt and would also mean if any of them beat Cain they jump into title contention too.

Interestingly, is Daniel Cormier flying under the radar as a potential two division champion? If he beats Rumble then there isnt a lot left for him at light heavyweight until Bones proves that he can make it to fight time and do we really doubt that he couldn't on his day beat everyone at heavyweight? He would be faster down there, we know already that he has power at that weight, if he can take Rumble's best shots then he can take anyone's and he would be the best wrestler in the division too.

[Nash Diesel]

I think with Cain and the talks of him being in the conversation with Fedor is that when Cain fights, we see all the things that put him in that argument regardless of activity...but on the flipside it is his inactivity that has people making great points like the one you are Mik.

[Percussion]

I don't think his largest point was even about the inactivity though, at least not in terms of matching up hypothetically with Fedor. It's about the leveling up of the game that a guy like Fedor can't reasonably be held to the standard of, and who in fact can actually be given credit for bringing the current standard toward. Had Fedor been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Cain he may have trained specially in ways similar to Cain and have been able wax him on ability. Had Cain been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Fedor he may never have been taught the rounded techniques we see from him today and been dealt with all the same.

Fedor ran the only table he can be held accountable for and was on a level playing field with everyone on that table. Cain hasn't.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't think his largest point was even about the inactivity though, at least not in terms of matching up hypothetically with Fedor. It's about the leveling up of the game that a guy like Fedor can't reasonably be held to the standard of, and who in fact can actually be given credit for bringing the current standard toward. Had Fedor been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Cain he may have trained specially in ways similar to Cain and have been able wax him on ability. Had Cain been born and raised in the exact same time frame as Fedor he may never have been taught the rounded techniques we see from him today and been dealt with all the same.

Fedor ran the only table he can be held accountable for and was on a level playing field with everyone on that table. Cain hasn't.

I did say Mik had great POINTS, plural.

I know you suck at fantasy booking but that's all Mark was initially doing. We're all educated MMA fans around here, so when someone fantasy books say Fedor v. Cain V, you can bet we're not comparing it verbatim, we're not going "Well but then you have to figure this because it was 2003 then and Cain did this thing that nobody really knew until 2008" it's fucking boring to think that way and again, you suck at looking at things from a fantasy booking point of view, just like the thread I made where you couldn't grasp the basic concept of fantasy booking fights like Mark Coleman v. Kurt Angle, you just can't put yourself in the mind frame of a WHAT IF scenario....

See me personally, I think a Prime Fedor could beat anyone in the HW division today. Just like Prime Anderson Silva could beat anyone at MW today. There are fighters who were so far ahead of the game that's why they were so dominant. So it's not exactly difficult to think that ok you take Prime Fedor, who was definitely more advanced than guys like Coleman, Ken Shamrock, Frye, etc. and you put him against a healthy Cain V, I think Fedor has a great chance of winning because he was that good. There isn't this huge talent gap like say someone going "Royce Gracie 1993 could be a champion at 170 today!" Fuck no he couldn't, the evolution of the sport was too big from his peak to what is going on today.

Do away with all the particulars like time travel lol, no time for that on the boards P.

[Mark Hammer]

Mik and percussion are right and I concede my original point. Not really fair to compare them I suppose.

And there is plenty of time for hypothetical (ie 'time travel', wtf) discussion on this board.

[Nash Diesel]

Mik and percussion are right and I concede my original point. Not really fair to compare them I suppose.

And there is plenty of time for hypothetical (ie 'time travel', wtf) discussion on this board.

If you agree that there is plenty of time for hypothetical discussion why are you backing off on your original point? Your original point was simply you thinking Cain would smash a Prime Fedor if Cain stayed healthy. That's not hard to imagine because imo, Prime Fedor is still a good fighter in 2010-2017 because he was so far ahead of everyone that was considered great at that time. Big Nog was great, Cro Cop was great, Fedor was the next level. Do you agree that Prime Anderson Silva could still be champion today?

[Percussion]

I did say Mik had great POINTS, plural.

I know you suck at fantasy booking but that's all Mark was initially doing. We're all educated MMA fans around here, so when someone fantasy books say Fedor v. Cain V, you can bet we're not comparing it verbatim, we're not going "Well but then you have to figure this because it was 2003 then and Cain did this thing that nobody really knew until 2008" it's fucking boring to think that way and again, you suck at looking at things from a fantasy booking point of view, just like the thread I made where you couldn't grasp the basic concept of fantasy booking fights like Mark Coleman v. Kurt Angle, you just can't put yourself in the mind frame of a WHAT IF scenario....

See me personally, I think a Prime Fedor could beat anyone in the HW division today. Just like Prime Anderson Silva could beat anyone at MW today. There are fighters who were so far ahead of the game that's why they were so dominant. So it's not exactly difficult to think that ok you take Prime Fedor, who was definitely more advanced than guys like Coleman, Ken Shamrock, Frye, etc. and you put him against a healthy Cain V, I think Fedor has a great chance of winning because he was that good. There isn't this huge talent gap like say someone going "Royce Gracie 1993 could be a champion at 170 today!" Fuck no he couldn't, the evolution of the sport was too big from his peak to what is going on today.

Do away with all the particulars like time travel lol, no time for that on the boards P.

I was favoring Fedor.

And honestly go fuck yourself with all the silly, unnecessary hostility.

[Nash Diesel]

I was favoring Fedor.

And honestly go fuck yourself with all the silly, unnecessary hostility.

Nobody cares if you favor Fedor or not in this conversation, has nothing to do with anything. You have thin skin holy fuck.

[Percussion]

I was saying that regarding the fantasy booking aspect. To which you seemed to greatly care about.

Are you on heavy medication by any chance?

[Mark Hammer]

If you agree that there is plenty of time for hypothetical discussion why are you backing off on your original point? Your original point was simply you thinking Cain would smash a Prime Fedor if Cain stayed healthy. That's not hard to imagine because imo, Prime Fedor is still a good fighter in 2010-2017 because he was so far ahead of everyone that was considered great at that time. Big Nog was great, Cro Cop was great, Fedor was the next level. Do you agree that Prime Anderson Silva could still be champion today?
Because I'm not a close-minded buffoon and Mik made a really good point. You thought so as well. Jesus.

[Nash Diesel]

Because I'm not a close-minded buffoon and Mik made a really good point. You thought so as well. Jesus.

But that still doesn't mean you were WRONG in your post. Notice my post after Mik I didn't exactly totally agree with him, I just said that I could see the flipside of what you were saying and how great points can be made from it. But again, that doesn't mean you were wrong.

Keep up with the insults though, I'll wait for another pity party post in the Asylum where we all have to forget how much of a wonderful human being you are.

[Mik]

When I said in the other thread that you were winding Mark Hammer up, I was referring more to the habit that you have of being a condescending smart arse with the way that you speak to people on here, which is now being quite clearly demonstrated in this thread too. If you have to keep telling people to get a thicker skin, maybe the answer is more that you need to wind your neck in a bit...and you do, so wind it in. Of course people are going to keep bristling and getting annoyed when you're constantly talking down to them, give it a rest now please.

[Nash Diesel]

When I said in the other thread that you were winding Mark Hammer up, I was referring more to the habit that you have of being a condescending smart arse with the way that you speak to people on here, which is now being quite clearly demonstrated in this thread too. If you have to keep telling people to get a thicker skin, maybe the answer is more that you need to wind your neck in a bit...and you do, so wind it in. Of course people are going to keep bristling and getting annoyed when you're constantly talking down to them, give it a rest now please.

I'd take a step back and realize that the list of people I tend to get into spats with is a very very small list. Those people have it coming, you're no saint either and show me where I'm calling people names and to go fuck themselves because I can't handle a disagreement or getting called out on my stupid shit. When I get called out, I take it in stride and we have fun with it. You better run it back and make these comments known toward Mark and P13 as well, don't single me out just because those 2 are getting their panties in a bunch over something so fucking stupid lol.

[Mark Hammer]

But that still doesn't mean you were WRONG in your post. Notice my post after Mik I didn't exactly totally agree with him, I just said that I could see the flipside of what you were saying and how great points can be made from it. But again, that doesn't mean you were wrong.

Keep up with the insults though, I'll wait for another pity party post in the Asylum where we all have to forget how much of a wonderful human being you are.

I disagree, I think I was WRONG.

[Mik]

No mate, this isn't a discussion between me and you where you im telling you something to open a dialogue and hear your point of view and you're defending yourself and then telling me what to do. This is me telling you that you're being a little too obnoxious and to dial it back. If I think it's a case of other people needing to toughen up, I'll tell them that, this isn't a case of that. Mark Hammer probably gets warned more than anyone else in him and I DID tell him to not overreact, so I don't really need your input there. The list of people ON this forum is very small, stop talking down to people, its as simple as that. I'm not interested in any further discussion on this.

[Spedizzo]

a prime Anderson Silva destroys the MW division of today in a 5 round fight. His only glaring weakness was well rounded wrestlers, but in a 5 round fight I believe he would find a way against anyone

a prime Fedor still has a good chance of getting TKO'd or sub'd by guys like Stefan Struve

[Nash Diesel]

a prime Anderson Silva destroys the MW division of today in a 5 round fight. His only glaring weakness was well rounded wrestlers, but in a 5 round fight I believe he would find a way against anyone

a prime Fedor still has a good chance of getting TKO'd or sub'd by guys like Stefan Struve

I think any Heavyweight, no matter how good, has a good chance of getting finished, that's just the nature of the division. A prime Fedor in 2017 UFC would be World champion at least once. I think he would be like a Daniel Cormier or Cain. Not a big big guy but he comes in with that grappling and heavy hands and would wreck a lot of guys just like he did with almost virtual ease back in the day.

[Percussion]

a prime Fedor still has a good chance of getting TKO'd or sub'd by guys like Stefan Struve

:lol:

[Mark Hammer]

Lol Spedizzo has undergone a recent gimmick change and I must say that I like it.

[Mark Hammer]

I don't agree that prime Silva would beat Weidman or Romero though. World-class grapplers with high fight IQs and deadly striking. I'll probably get called a racist for this but Silva did fight nothing but idealistic style matchups for his entire run as champ, except maybe Chael who has a history of in-fight brain farts.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't agree that prime Silva would beat Weidman or Romero though. World-class grapplers with high fight IQs and deadly striking. I'll probably get called a racist for this but Silva did fight nothing but idealistic style matchups for his entire run as champ, except maybe Chael who has a history of in-fight brain farts.

Making an educated opinion versus the norm, naw you won't get called a racist lol. I mean what you described Weidman and Romero is basically Dan Henderson when Silva beat him. I mean, did Weidman actually ever truly beat Anderson Silva? ;)

[Mark Hammer]

"vs the norm" ie pulling for Weidman. Anyways...

Hendo was never the ground threat that Weidman/Romero are, and really only had his H-Bomb right hand whereas Weidman and Romero both have a more versed striking attack; even then he clobbered Silva in the first round and at that time would have beaten him 5 times out of 10.

[Nash Diesel]

"vs the norm" ie pulling for Weidman. Anyways...

Hendo was never the ground threat that Weidman/Romero are, and really only had his H-Bomb right hand whereas Weidman and Romero both have a more versed striking attack; even then he clobbered Silva in the first round and at that time would have beaten him 5 times out of 10.

Ah, I would say when Hendo fought Silva he was gradually becoming the guy who relied on that H bomb and really nothing else. But this was still the guy who went on and beat some really tough guys still in their prime like Shogun. I mean in reality, Hendo won that first round against Silva by taking him down and controlling him. Really anyone with decent takedowns are going to have that advantage over Anderson, no matter the era.

If Anderson would struggle against the top 2-3 guys in the division then that just means Anderson's still a pimp. He SHOULD struggle because a prime Anderson was about 5-6 years ahead of everyone else so it would all average out and he would still be a threat, he'd still be a champion, he'd still be someone who could rule the division. That doesn't mean Romero and Weidman wouldn't lose to him, doesn't mean they couldn't beat him either.