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Fro
February 7th, 2017, 7:42 PM
The Patriots are your 2016 NFL Champions. Tom Brady and Bill Belichick cement their place as GOATs by pulling off a miracle comeback for title #5 but now we turn the page to 2017 and begin anew.

Key Dates
February 28 - NFL Scouting Combine, Indianapolis.
March 1 - Deadline for clubs to designate Franchise or Transition Players.
March 9 - Beginning of free agency and league year.
April 27 - NFL Draft, Philadelphia.
August 3 - Hall of Fame Game (start of preseason)
September 7 - Regular Season Opener, Foxboro.

Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB
Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety
Kirk Cousins, R-words QB
Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR
Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB
Kawann Short, Panthers DT
Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE
Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE

Opening Survey:
Who will win Super Bowl 52?
Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total?
Which new head coach will be the most successful?
Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now?

hithit
February 7th, 2017, 9:51 PM
First pick in fantasy would be David Johnson. GB wins SB 52. Cleveland has to improve the most, be hard for them not to. The hc one, not so sure. I'm leaning towards the Rams guy though.

Kdestiny
February 7th, 2017, 10:13 PM
I think Jaguars have the best shot of improving the most.

Top fantasy player is either my man DJ or Le'Veon, I lean David though.

Honey_Badger
February 8th, 2017, 9:54 AM
Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Leaves and joins the Eagles
Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Stay
Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Stay
Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Stay
Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Signs with another team

Opening Survey:
Who will win Super Bowl 52? - New England, the youth on their team have that taste of blood now
Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? - my gut says Oakland falls back to 8-8, but I also think LA Rams will get to 8-8
Which new head coach will be the most successful? - Not a coach, but Coughlin will thrive the most in his role
Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? - David Johnson, if Ben stays in Pitt, then Bell

TimeSplitter
February 8th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Titans
Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Tagged
Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Tagged
Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Stay
Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Miami


Opening Survey:
Who will win Super Bowl 52? Pats
Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? Chiefs come back down.
Which new head coach will be the most successful? Vance Joseph, if they get the QB thing sorted out.
Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? David Johnson

Honey_Badger
February 8th, 2017, 10:02 AM
The Titans finished above .500 this past season, 9-7.

TimeSplitter
February 8th, 2017, 10:08 AM
Wow, I thought they were 8-8 or 7-9.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 10:20 AM
Moving this question from Beefy over to the new thread:

Lets play a little game. Where will the following QBs be rostered in Week One of the 2017 regular season?

Tony Romo
Jay Cutler
Jimmy Garoppolo
Tyrod Taylor
Colin Kaepernick
RG3
Kirk Cousins
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Geno Smith

Honey_Badger
February 8th, 2017, 10:21 AM
Denver
Arizona
San Fran
New York
San Fran
Cleveland
Washington
Free Agent
Free Agent

TimeSplitter
February 8th, 2017, 10:22 AM
Tony Romo - Denver
Jay Cutler - SF
Jimmy Garoppolo - Cleveland
Tyrod Taylor - Buffalo
Colin Kaepernick - Jets
RG3 - Cut
Kirk Cousins - R-Words
Ryan Fitzpatrick - Unsigned
Geno Smith - Cut

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Some of these are wild guesses:


Tony Romo - Bears
Jay Cutler - Jets
Jimmy Garoppolo - Browns (I want to say Bears since Garop is Illinois born and bred but Browns have more to offer. The Pats would prefer to deal him out of conference but it's the Browns so I don't think they'll be bothered.)
Tyrod Taylor - 49ers
Colin Kaepernick - Bears (backup to Romo)
RG3 - Bills
Kirk Cousins - Washington (I think they get a deal done or at least keep him on the franchise tag again)
Ryan Fitzpatrick - Jaguars (backup/competition for Bortles)
Geno Smith - Cowboys (backup)

TimeSplitter
February 8th, 2017, 10:28 AM
Geno to the Cowboys is a good guess. I think RG3 is done as a starter in the NFL.

PurePlayer
February 8th, 2017, 10:35 AM
I would say Desean Jackson is a pretty notable free agent as well.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Let me also offer everyone the chance to throw out a WILD PREDICTION (for either the offseason or 2017 season).

Mine: Jason Pierre-Paul signs with the Patriots. The Patriots don't tend to sign big free agents but I feel like with his hand injury there could be some sneaky value there, and the Pats will be in need at that position since Sheard and Chris Long could likely both be gone.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 12:28 PM
What I'd give to land Garoppolo here.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 12:36 PM
Also, who does everyone want in the draft?

I've got my fingers crossed we see either Ryan Ramczyk or Garett Bolles slide to us. If not I'd be very interested in landing Jabrill Peppers should teams pass on his lack of position.

Honey_Badger
February 8th, 2017, 1:05 PM
Wild Prediction: The Tennessee Titans make the AFC Championship game and Marcus Mariota wins the MVP award.

ReDPath
February 8th, 2017, 1:07 PM
Opening Survey:
Who will win Super Bowl 52? - The easy answer is the Pats, easier conference to get back to the Bowl, I'll go Packers or Seahawks, dark horses being Dallas or NYG
Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? - Oakland will drop off
Which new head coach will be the most successful? - So many bad coaches, I'll go San Fran
Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? - Rodgers

Tony Romo - Denver
Jay Cutler - Backup somewhere
Jimmy Garoppolo - Chicago
Tyrod Taylor - Buffalo
Colin Kaepernick - Backup somewhere
RG3 - Out of the league
Kirk Cousins - Stays in Washington
Ryan Fitzpatrick - Free agent
Geno Smith - Out of the league

Notable Unrestricted Free Agents
Le'Veon Bell, Steelers RB - Stay
Eric Berry, Chiefs Safety - Stay
Kirk Cousins, R-words QB - Stay
Alshon Jeffrey, Bears WR - Miami
Chandler Jones, Cardinals OLB - Tagged
Kawann Short, Panthers DT - Tagged
Jason Pierre-Paul, Giants DE - Dallas
Martellus Bennett, Patriots TE - Green Bay

Caito
February 8th, 2017, 1:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.

BigAl
February 8th, 2017, 1:37 PM
Do you guys do a Rajah fantasy league? Or would there be any interest in doing a Rajah pick 'em league for a little money? Maybe like a $20 entry fee or something relatively low?

Kneeneighbor
February 8th, 2017, 1:44 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.

All that coaching turnover is going to hurt Atlanta.

Honey_Badger
February 8th, 2017, 1:45 PM
We do.

And yes, there would be, at least on my end.

Kdestiny
February 8th, 2017, 1:47 PM
All that coaching turnover is going to hurt Atlanta.

The NFC South is going to be a dog fight. I could end up seeing Atlanta winning 10 games and missing the playoffs due to improvements by Carolina as well as Tampa.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 1:50 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Atlanta head back to the Supe Bowl. Group of mostly young guys, explosive, and if you don't think they're are gonna be hungrier than ever now.... you got another thing coming.

I do think it'll be possible, but much harder for the Pats. They've got a lot of guys that are gonna wanna get PAID now that they've won a SB. Happens every time. And you can't keep them all.

Not to take a homer stance but I couldn't disagree more in regard to which team is better poised to return. The Falcons defense needs a lot of work despite their improvements at the end of the year. I trust in Dan Quinn to keep whipping them into shape and building the roster but you don't often win in the playoffs with a 25th ranked defense. They did this year because their offense was historically great which will be hard to duplicate. They also have a lot of coaching turnover (both coordinators are out plus some assistant coaches). And the Super Bowl hangover is no joke. It's very rare to lose a SB and return the next season - especially since they are in the tougher conference at the moment.

The Pats meanwhile are in an excellent position moving forward. Of the top 10 teams in available cap space this offseason, 9 of them did not make the playoffs. The only 1 is the Pats (they have over $60 million in cap space currently). So they can take care of a few key guys (Hightower) and maneuver how they see fit. Plus they have the Jimmy G trade chip.

Not going to make this my wild prediction but I honestly think the Pats have another shot at 16-0 next year if Gronk stays healthy. They will dominate again.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 1:59 PM
Actually I'd like to retract that because the Pats schedule next year is much tougher than it was in 2016. AFC West and NFC South on the schedule so they have to play the Chiefs, @Denver, Raiders in Mexico City, @Saints, @Bucs, @Steelers, Falcons at home... that's no picnic. Should be a fun year though.

BigAl
February 8th, 2017, 2:13 PM
We do.

And yes, there would be, at least on my end.

Cool, cool. I'll be running at least one other pick 'em league so I can do one for here as well. Thankfully we have a few months before I put it together

BigAl
February 8th, 2017, 2:18 PM
Actually I'd like to retract that because the Pats schedule next year is much tougher than it was in 2016. AFC West and NFC South on the schedule so they have to play the Chiefs, @Denver, Raiders in Mexico City, @Saints, @Bucs, @Steelers, Falcons at home... that's no picnic. Should be a fun year though.


Nah, I still think the Pats have a better chance of returning because, well, they're the Pats. It's sustained excellence for 15+ years at this point. I wouldn't bet against them unless they get devastated by injuries during the season. They won't go 16-0 with that schedule but I don't think they struggle to a 1 or 2 seed. They still have the benefit of playing the Jets/Bills/Dophins twice. Dolphins could be tough but I think the Bills take a step back and the Jets are the Jets.

Kneeneighbor
February 8th, 2017, 2:46 PM
I think he was taking back the comment about 16-0

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 2:52 PM
Yea sorry just retracting the 16-0 bit.

BigAl
February 8th, 2017, 2:57 PM
Yeah I just read that wrong. My bad. But what I said still stands. Pats have a much better shot of getting back to the SB than Falcons, despite the tougher schedule.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 3:27 PM
No draft fever yet? Still a little too early?

Three qbs in the first round. Two stud rbs to be had. Defensive players all up and down the boards, including a smorgasbord of dbs.

Kneeneighbor
February 8th, 2017, 4:11 PM
Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB

Kdestiny
February 8th, 2017, 4:24 PM
I'm sure Chicago will take Allen from Bama.

Maybe the one Tide defender I'd prefer they didn't take due to his shoulder injury history

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 4:33 PM
Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB

CB Tre'Davious White from LSU would be a good fit.


I'm sure Chicago will take Allen from Bama.

Maybe the one Tide defender I'd prefer they didn't take due to his shoulder injury history

I'm mixed on Allen. He's clearly talented and worth an early pick. Just get a high floor, low ceiling vibe from him.

If I took any Bama defender this year it's Reuben Foster, without hesitation.

PurePlayer
February 8th, 2017, 4:37 PM
Eagles need to go big at WR and CB in this draft. I know CB is deeper so it might be smart to take a WR in the first round and CB in the 2nd and even 3rd. I would then go RB in the 4th, and DE, DT with their two 5th rounders. Maybe go OL in the 6th and 7th.

First use the money you save by cutting, Mckelvin, Matthews, and Barwin and sign someone like Stills or Jackson as a starting WR. Use the rest of the money to sign a veteran corner and pass rusher

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 4:42 PM
McShay's version 2.0 ...


1. Cleveland Browns Myles Garrett, OLB/DE, Texas A&M
2. San Francisco 49ers Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson
3. Chicago Bears Jonathan Allen, DE, Alabama
4. Jacksonville Jaguars Jamal Adams, S, LSU
5. Tennessee Titans Corey Davis, WR, Western Michigan
6. New York Jets Marshon Lattimore, CB, Ohio State
7. Los Angeles Chargers Malik Hooker, S, Ohio State
8. Carolina Panthers Leonard Fournette, RB, LSU
9. Cincinnati Bengals Solomon Thomas, DE, Stanford
10. Buffalo Bills Mike Williams, WR, Clemson
11. New Orleans Saints Taco Charlton, DE, Michigan
12. Cleveland Browns (from Eagles) Mitch Trubisky, QB, North Carolina
13. Arizona Cardinals Reuben Foster, ILB, Alabama
14. Philadelphia Eagles (from Vikings) Teez Tabor, CB, Florida
15. Indianapolis Colts Dalvin Cook, RB, Florida State
16. Baltimore Ravens Malik McDowell, DT, Michigan State
17. Washington Jabrill Peppers, S, Michigan
18. Tennessee Titans Sidney Jones, CB, Washington
19. Tampa Bay Buccaneers O.J. Howard, TE, Alabama
20. Denver Broncos Ryan Ramczyk, OT, Wisconsin
21. Detroit Lions Derek Barnett, DE, Tennessee
22. Miami Dolphins David Njoku, TE, Miami (Fla.)
23. New York Giants Takkarist McKinley, DE/OLB, UCLA
24. Oakland Raiders Jarrad Davis, LB, Florida
25. Houston Texans Garett Bolles, OT, Utah
26. Seattle Seahawks Cam Robinson, OT, Alabama
27. Kansas City Chiefs Tre'Davious White, CB, LSU
28. Dallas Cowboys Tim Williams, OLB, Alabama
29. Green Bay Packers Alvin Kamara, RB, Tennessee
30. Pittsburgh Steelers Charles Harris, OLB, Missouri
31. Atlanta Falcons Quincy Wilson, CB, Florida
32. New England Patriots Haason Reddick, LB, Temple

I'd do backflips for this.

PurePlayer
February 8th, 2017, 4:47 PM
It's amazing how Corey Davis is higher than Williams in some mock drafts and as low as in the 20s in others.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 5:00 PM
Having a 1st round pick and being in mock drafts again feels good :)

Kdestiny
February 8th, 2017, 5:04 PM
Much rather Chicago trade down a bit or take a QB

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 5:08 PM
Heard an interesting argument recently about the idea of abolishing the draft entirely.

Being a big fan of the whole ordeal because my team fucking sucks, and believing more so than not that it helps with parity and is wholly entertaining, I wasn't thrilled with the suggestion. But then I listened a little more.

So, every team would have the same basic idea of 7 picks (more or less) that are slotted according to where you finished your season. Cap numbers would run accordingly as well. So if you're Cleveland you have a little more to offer than NE for instance but if you're NE you clearly have a little more to offer from a structural standpoint. And so every player declaring eligible would be free to negotiate with any team interested and it becomes kind of a controlled free for all.

Big picture here is players have a say in where they begin their careers like everyone else but within a system that still gives parity a reasonable say.

Yay, nay?

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 5:20 PM
Nay

It's hard to wrap my head around the implications of that type of system. When would an elite QB prospect like Luck or Mariota or Winston ever sign with a crummy team like the Browns? How would the Browns pull themselves out of the franchise hole they're in? Sure, they could offer the most money so it's not like they wouldn't still be able to sign 1st round prospects but that could be a nightmare for a franchise if they get into a cycle of not being able to lure top-10 level prospects. And when you get into the later rounds it might get even worse because the money wouldn't be drastically different between slots. Also marquee players would want to sign in big markets, giving up salary for the potential of additional endorsement income.

I think it would be a mess and would facilitate more dynasties and less parody.

Judas Iscariot
February 8th, 2017, 5:26 PM
Don't like it at all. Doesn't give crap teams a chance to build in the draft.

Everyone would go to the previous year's playoff teams.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 5:28 PM
Nay

It's hard to wrap my head around the implications of that type of system. When would an elite QB prospect like Luck or Mariota or Winston ever sign with a crummy team like the Browns? How would the Browns pull themselves out of the franchise hole they're in? Sure, they could offer the most money so it's not like they wouldn't still be able to sign 1st round prospects but that could be a nightmare for a franchise if they get into a cycle of not being able to lure top-10 level prospects. And when you get into the later rounds it might get even worse because the money wouldn't be drastically different between slots. Also marquee players would want to sign in big markets, giving up salary for the potential of additional endorsement income.

I think it would be a mess and would facilitate more dynasties and less parody.

You don't think there are players that are focused greatly on the money? Or that have the competitive ego to think that they could be the piece to change a place like Cleveland?

As for the later rounds, sure the money becomes less differentiated slot-wise, but kinda so do the players at that point. And it would lend to more strategic negotiations.

And sure marquee players would want that, but there are only so many slots like that available and so to the better management go those other better players.

And lastly, and as important as anything, this gives players the right to control where they work. As it is kinda bizarre that that's not really a thing as it is.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 5:32 PM
Don't like it at all. Doesn't give crap teams a chance to build in the draft.

Everyone would go to the previous year's playoff teams.

Sure it does.

And there are only so many of those slots for so much financial incentive.

Chris Scott
February 8th, 2017, 6:00 PM
Tannehill and Ajayi to be even better this season.

Kneeneighbor
February 8th, 2017, 6:18 PM
McShay's version 2.0 ...



I'd do backflips for this.

I would be disappointed if Green Bay went RB in the first.

hithit
February 8th, 2017, 6:47 PM
Thank GOD for that. I hope Green Bay goes DB early. We need that and another pass rusher/LB

Whole draft needs to spent on the D.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 6:48 PM
I would be disappointed if Green Bay went RB in the first.

Ya, Kamara is a heck of a rising talent, but this draft is deep with rbs. Better off tackling a need with elite potential early and still looking at a quality back later.

Fro
February 8th, 2017, 7:41 PM
You don't think there are players that are focused greatly on the money? Or that have the competitive ego to think that they could be the piece to change a place like Cleveland?

As for the later rounds, sure the money becomes less differentiated slot-wise, but kinda so do the players at that point. And it would lend to more strategic negotiations.

And sure marquee players would want that, but there are only so many slots like that available and so to the better management go those other better players.

And lastly, and as important as anything, this gives players the right to control where they work. As it is kinda bizarre that that's not really a thing as it is.

I think a team like the Browns would end up with a far worse draft class than what they'll get in the current system. It would make getting out of the gutter harder, but not impossible.

I don't think the draft system is that bizarre. I mean, it's so engrained in all major American sports that it's hard to imagine anything else. It's necessary for equity between the teams and to create competitive balance. What was bizarre was before free agency was a thing and guy really couldn't control where they work.

Unrelated note: It's wild that the Patriots haven't scored in the 1st quarter in any of their 7 Super Bowls this era.

Percussion
February 8th, 2017, 8:59 PM
I think a team like the Browns would end up with a far worse draft class than what they'll get in the current system. It would make getting out of the gutter harder, but not impossible.

I don't think the draft system is that bizarre. I mean, it's so engrained in all major American sports that it's hard to imagine anything else. It's necessary for equity between the teams and to create competitive balance. What was bizarre was before free agency was a thing and guy really couldn't control where they work.

Why should the Browns being a shitstain on the league have to affect a decent kid coming out of school looking for the best job he can find?

Why are we protecting them over him?

And the draft hasn't exactly been doing the Browns any favors either. So kids are essentially punished for being talented/valuable while an inept franchise still can't figure it out. This really doesn't make a ton of sense. Perhaps it'd be best to punish perennially floundering franchises for being shit?

And how is the draft system not bizarre compared to the other 99% of the working world where people aren't drafted, they're recruited?

Fro
February 9th, 2017, 11:42 AM
Why should the Browns being a shitstain on the league have to affect a decent kid coming out of school looking for the best job he can find?

Why are we protecting them over him?

And the draft hasn't exactly been doing the Browns any favors either. So kids are essentially punished for being talented/valuable while an inept franchise still can't figure it out. This really doesn't make a ton of sense. Perhaps it'd be best to punish perennially floundering franchises for being shit?

And how is the draft system not bizarre compared to the other 99% of the working world where people aren't drafted, they're recruited?

The draft system makes for a healthier league that earns more revenue/salary for its players who collectively bargained this arrangement. Upward mobility (i.e. teams rising and falling) is vital to making the product nationally appealing and it allows for expansion teams to have a chance to prosper (creating more revenue and jobs).

This is a union industry. If you want to join the NFL Players Union you need to participate in the system they established, and the reward you get is a lucrative salary, potential fame, and a job millions of kids aspire to obtain. If you don't want to play by the NFLPA's rules, you can play professional football in a different league that has different rules. I'm sure there are other union jobs where you get assigned to a certain job/location without much say in the matter.

Also I think it is a stretch to say playing for the Browns (or any other NFL team) is a punishment.

Spedizzo
February 9th, 2017, 12:10 PM
The draft system is necessary, although a rookie who is green but has tons of potential can have their career ruined by going to a horribly ran franchise like the Browns. I think going to a team like the Browns psychologically fucks up the young player, and even physically they are probably more vulnerable to getting hurt due to poor offensive or defensive schemes, poor talent around them, etc.

at the same time having a free for all system where teams and rookies can essentially go wherever they want isnt all that smart either. Pretty much every rookie with potential will go to a team that is in Super Bowl contention or choose a team with ideal location (NY, Miami, San Diego, etc)

That would leave teams like Buffalo, Cleveland, Minnesota, etc in a situation where they might as well relegate to the canadian football league. Who in the world would want to play on one of those teams besides the guys who can't get on the better/better located teams?

Percussion
February 9th, 2017, 12:14 PM
No, not all of them (the talented rookies) would do so because the money wouldn't be allocated that way.

Percussion
February 9th, 2017, 12:20 PM
The draft system makes for a healthier league that earns more revenue/salary for its players who collectively bargained this arrangement. Upward mobility (i.e. teams rising and falling) is vital to making the product nationally appealing and it allows for expansion teams to have a chance to prosper (creating more revenue and jobs).

This is a union industry. If you want to join the NFL Players Union you need to participate in the system they established, and the reward you get is a lucrative salary, potential fame, and a job millions of kids aspire to obtain. If you don't want to play by the NFLPA's rules, you can play professional football in a different league that has different rules. I'm sure there are other union jobs where you get assigned to a certain job/location without much say in the matter.

Also I think it is a stretch to say playing for the Browns (or any other NFL team) is a punishment.

Who is saying there can't be upward mobility without the draft?

Fro
February 9th, 2017, 12:40 PM
Who is saying there can't be upward mobility without the draft?

I do. Not that there would be no upward mobility, just that it would be more difficult and thus would hurt the league's national appeal. Even with the current system, the Browns have been in a bad sustained funk. Imagine if we had 5 teams in that same situation instead of 1, and how the television ratings for their games would be. We already complain about bad games on TV, this would increase that problem.

I get that you're saying there would still be salary slotting based on team records so it's not a total abandonment of the draft system. The Browns would be able to offer the most money to their 1st round pick, the Patriots would be able to offer the least. Honestly I think it's tough for any of us to correctly predict how college players would react to such a system and to what degree they would value going to the best place vs going for the place with the highest salary. It would be literal mayhem.

But I think relegation in conjunction with what you're proposing would be an interesting idea, where we punish a team like the Browns for being bad by kicking them out of the league rather than having an equitable system that helps them get back to being good. I guess that's what European soccer leagues do.

All that being said, since this has literally no chance of ever happening, I don't know that it's worth debating to the extent that we have, but it's an interesting hypothetical.

Honey_Badger
February 9th, 2017, 1:01 PM
Pats should try and trade Jimmy G to the Bears, Cleveland or San Fran for a first-round pick. Could you imagine what Bill would do with a top-5 pick and the #32.

He could turn that into magic.

Kneeneighbor
February 9th, 2017, 1:02 PM
I think you have to think of the NFL as the company they are going to work for. The teams are just subdivisions.

My brother works as the manager of a warehouse for a large retail company. Once he is hired there he can be moved to any of the warehouses that they think he would be best at. He can always say no and leave the company but he cant just pick and choose which one he is at.

I teach at a High School in a district with 5 High Schools. Even with the union if numbers fluctuate at the schools all I am guaranteed is a teaching spot at one of those schools. They can bounce me around to where ever they want.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 10:05 AM
@AdrianPeterson:
The Giants been making some interesting moves.

AP on the Giants... thoughts? His tweet is referring to all the guys they've been cutting to free up cap space. The Vikings have a team option that would put him at an $18 million cap hit which they are unlikely to pick up given his recent injury and age (he will be 32 in March) thus making him likely headed towards free agency. He could still work out a deal to stay in Minnesota but the Giants are another place he's seemingly eyeing.

I think it would be cool. He has another good season in him, I'd guess. Maybe 2. Giants could certainly use him and he would make their offense more dynamic.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 10:26 AM
Pats should try and trade Jimmy G to the Bears, Cleveland or San Fran for a first-round pick. Could you imagine what Bill would do with a top-5 pick and the #32.

He could turn that into magic.

You are trying to say he is a top 5 pick? That's honestly insane. I might be able to argue he isn't worth a 2nd rounder.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 10:35 AM
If Jimmy Garoppolo could magically re-enter the draft this year, after his time with the Pats, he would almost certainly be the 1st QB off the board.

BigAl
February 16th, 2017, 10:38 AM
@AdrianPeterson:
The Giants been making some interesting moves.

AP on the Giants... thoughts? His tweet is referring to all the guys they've been cutting to free up cap space. The Vikings have a team option that would put him at an $18 million cap hit which they are unlikely to pick up given his recent injury and age (he will be 32 in March) thus making him likely headed towards free agency. He could still work out a deal to stay in Minnesota but the Giants are another place he's seemingly eyeing.

I think it would be cool. He has another good season in him, I'd guess. Maybe 2. Giants could certainly use him and he would make their offense more dynamic.

I think it would be a good fit if they work out a deal. The good news for AP is that in NY he won't be the focal point of the offense. They could easily get two decent years out of him if they limit his usage. I've also read that he wants to play in Dallas but I don't see that happening, not with Elliot.

'Hawks aren't being punished for not revealing Sherman's MCL injury. They claimed it was due to a "misunderstanding" of the injury report rules since Sherman didn't miss any practices/games.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 10:39 AM
If Jimmy Garoppolo could magically re-enter the draft this year, after his time with the Pats, he would almost certainly be the 1st QB off the board.

Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.

I wasn't being completely serious saying he isn't a 2nd rounder because he was drafted there but top 5 pick is a little much don't you think? I would say he would be worth a 20's first round pick looking at it objectively.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 10:57 AM
Do you really think he is worth a top 5 pick? Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.

No I've never thought that but I would put the upper limit trade return as the Browns #12 pick so it's not that far off. The Texans #25 pick would be more realistic but if there's a bidding war I could see the Browns pulling that trigger. If you think Jimmy Garoppolo is your future and that he's better than any of the QBs available in the draft (which I personally do), of course he's worth a 1st rounder. Getting a franchise QB in this league in this day and age is almost priceless. If he becomes a top 10 QB, you could trade multiple first round picks for him and in 5 years people will say it was a good trade. So it really comes down to your evaluation of him and whether you think he's that. Sure there's the financial aspect which is that you only have him for cheap for 1 year versus a draft pick who you have for cheap for 4 years, but above all else you need to get a QB if you want to win. Look at what your Eagles gave up for Wentz. Again it's not apples to apples because of Jimmy's contract status but when you can get your guy, you pull out all stops.

Side note I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick does something unexpected and doesn't even go for draft picks but trades him for a player, like a Garoppolo for DeAndre Hopkins deal or something crazy like that. Bill tends to do the unexpected.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 11:13 AM
No I've never thought that but I would put the upper limit trade return as the Browns #12 pick so it's not that far off. The Texans #25 pick would be more realistic but if there's a bidding war I could see the Browns pulling that trigger. If you think Jimmy Garoppolo is your future and that he's better than any of the QBs available in the draft (which I personally do), of course he's worth a 1st rounder.

That's the thing, you are basing it on his limited playing time in the NFL and years of experience. Obviously you can't say well Jimmy is better because he played behind Brady and Bill and has experience in the NFL as your criteria. A team that is struggling like the bears, niners and browns wouldn't want to spend the extra money on a player when they could just draft one for really cheap and use the extra cash on signings that would improve their team. It's not like these teams are just a QB away from competing either whether a semi-veteran qb would make the difference.

I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position. I don't see why a team like the Broncos wouldn't be interested. They are picking in the teens right now.

Percussion
February 16th, 2017, 12:24 PM
Take your Patriots hat off and tell me he is a top 5 pick.

I wasn't being completely serious saying he isn't a 2nd rounder because he was drafted there but top 5 pick is a little much don't you think? I would say he would be worth a 20's first round pick looking at it objectively.

Against this year's QB class he'd be rated highest and so if you magically declared him eligible today he's a top 5 pick.


I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position.

Wouldn't be unrealistic at all. Jimmy's on the last year of a pennies rookie deal and next year Osweiler is cut and so money cleared.

Kdestiny
February 16th, 2017, 12:44 PM
I could absolutely see Cleveland trading their second first rounder plus maybe another for Jimmy. I feel like there is a chance they would use it on QB anyways.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 12:45 PM
That's the thing, you are basing it on his limited playing time in the NFL and years of experience. Obviously you can't say well Jimmy is better because he played behind Brady and Bill and has experience in the NFL as your criteria. A team that is struggling like the bears, niners and browns wouldn't want to spend the extra money on a player when they could just draft one for really cheap and use the extra cash on signings that would improve their team. It's not like these teams are just a QB away from competing either whether a semi-veteran qb would make the difference.

I would be completely understanding if a team like the Texans did do that. It might be a little unrealistic due to the amount of money they invested in the qb position. I don't see why a team like the Broncos wouldn't be interested. They are picking in the teens right now.

I doubt the Broncos want to use 1st round picks on QBs two years in a row unless Paxton Lynch is already a bust and Siemien isn't the answer but that doesn't seem to be their attitude. I also don't think the Patriots would send him there since they are a conference rival who always gives us trouble. So that possibility seems extremely unlikely.

I know it's a small sample but Jimmy going 43 of 63 (68%) with 4 TDs, 0 picks and a 113 passer rating in his 6 quarters of meaningful play is enough to get excited about. He looked like a guy who will be a starting QB in this league for 10 years. Maybe it's fool's gold but I would say it's a lot more solid than any college QB this year (since there are no slam dunk guys like Luck/Winston/Mariota). QB isn't like other positions where you say "well I'll just get one on the cheap in the draft instead of signing a guy to big money".... it's the position that makes or breaks your franchise for entire eras.

Pre-Super Bowl my prediction was that the Pats hold firm and keep Jimmy for 2017. The SB changed things for sure. Brady is not going anywhere after that performance so you deal Jimmy now. I'm not sure how this will play out but I'm happy that the media is running with the story about how all these teams have strong interest.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 12:50 PM
Against this year's QB class he'd be rated highest and so if you magically declared him eligible today he's a top 5 pick.


Obviously it doesn't work that way though. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason when he got drafted.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 12:51 PM
I know it's a small sample but Jimmy going 43 of 63 (68%) with 4 TDs, 0 picks and a 113 passer rating in his 6 quarters of meaningful play is enough to get excited about. He looked like a guy who will be a starting QB in this league for 10 years. Maybe it's fool's gold but I would say it's a lot more solid than any college QB this year (since there are no slam dunk guys like Luck/Winston/Mariota). QB isn't like other positions where you say "well I'll just get one on the cheap in the draft instead of signing a guy to big money".... it's the position that makes or breaks your franchise for entire eras.


it really is a small sample size. People thought Matt Flynn was the next big qb based on his amazing start to his career. i just find it hard to believe a team would give up a top 5 pick based on that sample size knowing they are going to have to pay him way more than a rookie they could draft and mold.

Percussion
February 16th, 2017, 1:01 PM
Obviously it doesn't work that way though. He was a 2nd round pick for a reason when he got drafted.

But you asked how he is worth a top 5 pick, and so there. He's worth more than guys that will assuredly go in that spot. That's how.

And he went in the 2nd only because of his small school competition. His tape showed more than that but the questions lingered. He's now showed to hang with this level. And small sample sure, but that's every snap more sample than guys entering this draft have.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 1:05 PM
But you asked how he is worth a top 5 pick, and so there. He's worth more than guys that will assuredly go in that spot. That's how.

And he went in the 2nd only because of his small school competition. His tape showed more than that but the questions lingered. He's now showed to hang with this level. And small sample sure, but that's every snap more sample than guys entering this draft have.

There a lot of players in this league worth a top 5 pick but you don't see teams trading away those picks for contract reasons and in this case a very small sample size along with a bigger contract to come. Why would a team like Chicago not just draft an unproven QB and use the additional money on other issues over trading for an unproven player that has shown glimpses in a system that has generated good QB performances (Matt Cassel) and having to pay him money while not knowing how good he really is? Doesn't make sense to me.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 1:06 PM
it really is a small sample size. People thought Matt Flynn was the next big qb based on his amazing start to his career. i just find it hard to believe a team would give up a top 5 pick based on that sample size knowing they are going to have to pay him way more than a rookie they could draft and mold.

That's fine, no one has really suggested that except Honey Badger. And to HB's defense I don't think it's impossible but I would be shocked just like you and kdestiny if the Bears actually deal the #3 pick for JG. That's very doubtful. But hey, Sam Bradford got a 1st and a 4th so teams get crazy sometimes. If the Bears really want him and the Browns offer pick #12, maybe that's what they have to do.

Not to beat a dead horse in terms of all the possibilities, but I could see the Browns 2nd round pick (1st pick of the 2nd round) being the big chip. Maybe that plus their 2018 2nd round pick. I wouldn't hate it. I forget how all the draft salary slotting works but it's possible that Belichick loves the 1st pick of the 2nd round because it's essentially a 1st rounder but you don't have to pay them as much.

One thing on the Browns though, if Jimmy doesn't want to sign an extension there that could take them out of the running. Any team who gives up a ton will want at least an understanding that he's willing to sign there long term.

Percussion
February 16th, 2017, 1:13 PM
There a lot of players in this league worth a top 5 pick but you don't see teams trading away those picks for contract reasons and in this case a very small sample size along with a bigger contract to come. Why would a team like Chicago not just draft an unproven QB and use the additional money on other issues over trading for an unproven player that has shown glimpses in a system that has generated good QB performances (Matt Cassel) and having to pay him money while not knowing how good he really is? Doesn't make sense to me.

Because Chicago wouldn't have to grow Garoppolo. He's damn near plug and play. The top guys this year may not come on till 2018. Maybe sooner, but that's seriously doubtful. None of them are considered less than very much works in progress with wart after wart.

And frankly Chicago can do whatever they damn well please. I couldn't care less. The question was how is his value established as such. And that's been pointed out.

And Matt Cassel was a 7th rounder. It's hardly a comparison. Teams were coveting Jimmy in the draft despite his small school status. Now he's also been adjusted.

PurePlayer
February 16th, 2017, 1:19 PM
And Matt Cassel was a 7th rounder. It's hardly a comparison. Teams were coveting Jimmy in the draft despite his small school status. Now he's also been adjusted.

Right but that furthers my point. A player like Matt Cassel was successful in the Patriots system and he played for a full year with a bigger sample size but then faded when he went to another team. JG is still very unproven with less of a sample size in a system that made mediocre QB's look decent. Also you say Chicago can just plug and play him. They obviously are years away from competing. It's not like they, the Browns, or Niners are a QB away from winning.

Percussion
February 16th, 2017, 1:22 PM
Right but that furthers my point. A player like Matt Cassel was success in the Patriots system and he played for a full year with a bigger sample size but then faded when he went to another team. JG is still very unproven with less of a sample size in a system that made mediocre QB's look decent.

That's where talent evaluation comes into play. Garoppolo has tools for days that Cassel could only dream of. Cassel relied on the system and got by. Garoppolo drove it.

TimeSplitter
February 16th, 2017, 2:05 PM
AP is done. He can't stay on the field to save his life. He burned his last bridge here in MN when he sat out the final game when he was healthy. I'm tired of his style, where he scuttles in the backfield and is lucky to gain 1-2 yards per rush. He might be a good change of pace back for a playoff team.

Kneeneighbor
February 16th, 2017, 3:36 PM
Atlanta Brewery paying off a debt.

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/resized_v1/9fae4516-1f66-477d-854e-b339e6959de7.jpg

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 3:39 PM
AP is done. He can't stay on the field to save his life. He burned his last bridge here in MN when he sat out the final game when he was healthy. I'm tired of his style, where he scuttles in the backfield and is lucky to gain 1-2 yards per rush. He might be a good change of pace back for a playoff team.

idk man you sound kinda jaded. in 2015 he played 16 games and led the league in rushing. last season obviously he had a slow start then the torn meniscus. were Vikings fans tired of his style in 2015 or is that something new to last season?

he might be done I mean he'll be 32 next season but I don't wanna count the guy out yet. he's one of the great rushers of all time and the last time he was healthy he was still the best in the league.

Kneeneighbor
February 16th, 2017, 3:41 PM
Many people in MN wanted him gone 3 years ago.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 3:42 PM
because he whipped his kid or for football reasons?

Kneeneighbor
February 16th, 2017, 3:58 PM
Little from column A little from column B.

They cite fumbles and the fact that he seems to go 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 80, 2, 1, 3, 3, 2, 1, with his rushing

EDIT: Also that while he missed that year he basically came back and demanded more guaranteed money. There were a lot of people upset about that and felt he should be playing for a job that year and grateful for what he had.

TimeSplitter
February 16th, 2017, 4:08 PM
idk man you sound kinda jaded. in 2015 he played 16 games and led the league in rushing. last season obviously he had a slow start then the torn meniscus. were Vikings fans tired of his style in 2015 or is that something new to last season?

he might be done I mean he'll be 32 next season but I don't wanna count the guy out yet. he's one of the great rushers of all time and the last time he was healthy he was still the best in the league.

I'm not jaded. If the patriots had a running back that was in decline, and has the highest salary on the team, you'd want him gone too. He's not going to accept a pay cut to stay in MN, most players don't, they'd take less money on a new team.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 4:26 PM
I'm not jaded. If the patriots had a running back that was in decline, and has the highest salary on the team, you'd want him gone too. He's not going to accept a pay cut to stay in MN, most players don't, they'd take less money on a new team.

That's all true enough but I was responding to the idea that he's done as a viable running back in the NFL and can't stay on the field anymore. If you're just saying he's done in Minnesota then I won't argue that.

But I think he still has a 1,000 yard season in him. Could certainly be wrong.

TimeSplitter
February 16th, 2017, 4:35 PM
He could rush for 1,000 yards, but I don't think there are a lot of teams that will sign him to be the main guy. New York has Vereen and Perkins, who had decent years. Teams that could give him a solid amount of carries would be:

Packers
Carolina (depending on what they do with Stewart)
Minnesota (If he took a pay cut)
Colts (but they already have a 30's running back)
Ravens?
Eagles?

Honestly, I think him signing up with the packers is the only way he gets 1,000 yards.

hithit
February 16th, 2017, 6:05 PM
As a Packer fan I have very mixed thoughts about AP coming here. On one hand I would love a legit stud rb. On the other hand I don't wanna pay him because I worry about injuries and a decline.

Chris Scott
February 16th, 2017, 6:15 PM
Williams, Albert, Mitchell and cornerback Ifo Ekpre-Olomu in salary cap moves. All good ones I think.

Fro
February 16th, 2017, 11:58 PM
Darrelle Revis was charged by Pittsburgh police on Thursday night with aggravated assault, robbery, terroristic threats and conspiracy stemming from his alleged involvement in a street altercation over the weekend that witnesses say left two men unconscious. Revis' attorney, Blaine Jones, told ESPN that he was trying to reach the four-time All-Pro by phone Thursday night to arrange for him to surrender to police. Jones wouldn't say when Revis would turn himself in, but noted it would be "rather soon."


On Sunday, February 12 at approximately 2:43 a.m., Zone 3 Officers were dispatched to the intersection of S. 23rd and E. Carson streets for a report that two males had been knocked unconscious. According to the investigation, a 22-year-old male from Kittanning was walking along E. Carson Street when he spotted a male who resembled Aliquippa native Darrelle Revis, a cornerback in the NFL. He asked if the man was Darrell Revis and he confirmed that he was. The male began recording the interaction on his cellphone and continued following Revis. At some point, Revis snatched the cellphone away and attempted to delete the video. Another 21-year-old male from Ross Township attempted to help the 22-year-old retrieve the cellphone. Revis then tossed the phone onto the roadway. A verbal argument followed. A male came to assist Revis. Both the 22-year-old and the 21-year-old state they were punched then remember waking up to talk to police. Witnesses state the two were unconscious for about 10 minutes. The officers viewed the cellphone video and confirmed that the person was Revis.

Sooo basically Revis got followed by some punks at 3AM in Pittsburgh, they started following him and filming him, he got pissed, took their phone and tried to delete the video, then kicked their ass and knocked them unconscious for 10 minutes until cops woke them up. That seems like a long time to be unconscious, no?

Anyway this probably spells the end of Revis's career. The Jets were likely to cut him anyway and this all but assures it. He could still sign somewhere but people were speculating he would retire if cut anyway, and now he's facing a potential suspension.

Hall of famer for sure but not a good way to go out.

Judas Iscariot
February 17th, 2017, 4:13 AM
Dude's being charged with four felonies. Not a good look at all.

Percussion
February 18th, 2017, 9:06 PM
It's getting on that time of year, anyone else interested in Mayock's pre-combine postion rankings ...


Quarterback

1. DeShone Kizer, Notre Dame
2. Deshaun Watson, Clemson
3. Mitch Trubisky, North Carolina
4. Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech
5. Davis Webb, California

Running Back

1. Dalvin Cook, Florida State
2. Leonard Fournette, LSU
3. Christian McCaffrey, Stanford
4. Alvin Kamara, Tennessee
5. Joe Mixon, Oklahoma

Wide receiver

1. Corey Davis, Western Michigan
2. Mike Williams, Clemson
3. John Ross, Washington
4. Cooper Kupp, Eastern Washington
5. Zay Jones, East Carolina

Tight end

1. O.J. Howard, Alabama
2. David Njoku, Miami
3. Evan Engram, Ole Miss
4. Jake Butt, Michigan
5. Gerald Everett, South Alabama

Offensive tackle

1. Ryan Ramczyk, Wisconsin
2. Garett Bolles, Utah
3. Antonio Garcia, Troy
4. Roderick Johnson, Florida State
T-5. Taylor Moton, Western Michigan
T-5. Jermaine Eluemunor, Texas A&M

Interior OL

1. Forrest Lamp, Western Kentucky
2. Cam Robinson, Alabama
3. Dan Feeney, Indiana
4. Ethan Pocic, LSU
5. Dion Dawkins, Temple

Interior DL

1. Jonathan Allen, Alabama
2. Caleb Brantley, Florida
3. Malik McDowell, Michigan State
4. Larry Ogunjobi, Charlotte
5. Chris Wormley, Michigan

Edge rusher

1. Myles Garrett, Texas A&M
2. Tim Williams, Alabama
3. Derek Barnett, Tennessee
4. Solomon Thomas, Stanford
5. Takkarist McKinley, UCLA

Linebacker

1. Reuben Foster, Alabama
2. Haason Reddick, Temple
3. Zach Cunningham, Vanderbilt
4. Jarrad Davis, Florida
5. Alex Anzalone, Florida

Cornerback

1. Sidney Jones, Washington
2. Marshon Lattimore, Ohio State
3. Marlon Humphrey, Alabama
4. Teez Tabor, Florida
5. Tre'Davious White, LSU

Safety

1. Malik Hooker, Ohio State
2. Jamal Adams, LSU
3. Jabrill Peppers, Michigan
4. Budda Baker, Washington
5. Obi Melifonwu, Connecticut

Special exceptions

Note: This category is for players who are not ranked in the top 5 at their position but have special value elsewhere (special teams, for example).

1. Adoree' Jackson, USC
2. Curtis Samuel, Ohio State
3. Chidobe Awuzie, Colorado
4. Desmond King, Iowa
5. Adam Shaheen, Ashland

and already a few notables..

Mitch Trubisky at 3rd
Dalvin Cook above Leonard Fournette
Cam Robinson at guard
Haason Reddick above Zach Cunningham

Fro
February 27th, 2017, 7:05 PM
JPP gets the franchise tag for nearly $17 million which surprises me. He previously said he doesn't want to play on a 1-year deal so this could be an interesting negotiation/holdout situation. Good for him for getting back to this point after his injury.

Antonio Brown gets a 4-year extension worth $68 million. $18.5M per year over the first 3 years. Well earned. Steelers should be contenders as long as their big 3 on offense can stay on the field together. With Big Ben talking retirement they need to strike now.

Le'Veon Bell and Chandler Jones also get the franchise tag - no surprises there.

The Law
February 28th, 2017, 4:20 PM
Redskins tagged Kirk Cousins. Have to pay him $24 million this year, and tagging him again would be absurdly expensive. So he'll hit the open market next year.

TimeSplitter
February 28th, 2017, 4:37 PM
There's talk of trading him to SF. Hard to think they'd get anything above a 3rd if the new team has to pay him $24 million.

Fro
February 28th, 2017, 4:41 PM
They can work on an extension with him until July but if not, and if he stays healthy, this would be the most the franchise tag has ever worked in a player's favor. He could make well north of $100 million in real cash in a 3 year span assuming he signs a big free agent contract next offseason.

In regard to potentially trading him, I doubt that will happen since I don't see the Redskins going into rebuild mode. But generally the team trading for him would do so with an agreement in place that he would sign an extension so he wouldn't be playing under the terms of the franchise tag with the 49ers.

Honey_Badger
February 28th, 2017, 4:53 PM
Why are they not just signing him to a long term deal?

Kneeneighbor
February 28th, 2017, 4:58 PM
It takes 2 to Tango.

Kneeneighbor
February 28th, 2017, 5:13 PM
Adrian Peterson has hit the free market. Vikings decline the option today.

BigAl
February 28th, 2017, 5:36 PM
Not shocking, but KC cut Charles.

The Law
February 28th, 2017, 6:09 PM
Is the belief that Cousins doesn't want a longterm deal with Washington or that they're not sold on him? I was under the impression that last year he'd have taken a big money deal and they wanted to see him prove it but maybe now the tables have turned.

Kneeneighbor
February 28th, 2017, 6:13 PM
Agree, I think he's at a point where he knows he can get a ton of cash with the tag again this year and then be in the open market next year for even more. The downside for him is he gets hurt and walks away with $45 million. But a baddest gamble.

Fro
March 1st, 2017, 10:16 AM
@AdamSchefter: In a move that will have a ripple effect on all QB-needy teams, Patriots are not expected to trade QB Jimmy Garoppolo, per league sources.

Interesting. This is what I always predicted would happen - keep him as the backup for 2017 and push the decision back a year when they can still franchise and trade him (or trade Brady, god forbid) - but I don't see why they would shut the door in the event someone comes with a crazy offer of two 1st round picks or something like that. And I still think they could be persuaded by the right offer. So all this report means, to me, is that they are setting a very high asking price and no one is expected to match it. If you're coming with an offer of a 2nd and 3rd round pick, there's the door.

PurePlayer
March 1st, 2017, 10:19 AM
He's only worth a 2nd round pick if you ask me, I know we have been through this before. By all means tag him next year and pay him top QB money without actually proving to be a starter. Call the Patriots bluff.

Fro
March 1st, 2017, 10:24 AM
I wouldn't call it a bluff. The Patriots value roster depth more than any other team (arguably), and having a backup QB they could win the Super Bowl with in the event an injury happens to Brady in 2017 is very valuable to them. The tag-and-trade option just means they can still get something for him next year. That's what they did with Matt Cassel.

PurePlayer
March 1st, 2017, 10:33 AM
I wouldn't call it a bluff. The Patriots value roster depth more than any other team (arguably), and having a backup QB they could win the Super Bowl with in the event an injury happens to Brady in 2017 is very valuable to them. The tag-and-trade option just means they can still get something for him next year. That's what they did with Matt Cassel.

But they are going to pay someone starter money to be a backup? They are going to have to make a big decision next year.

TimeSplitter
March 1st, 2017, 10:35 AM
I'd trade him this year. Jacoby Brisset looked pretty good filling in for Brady.

PurePlayer
March 1st, 2017, 10:39 AM
A situation could happen where a starter goes down in camp like Bridgewater did and a team could get desperate.

Fro
March 1st, 2017, 10:40 AM
But they are going to pay someone starter money to be a backup?

Hell nah, that would be the exact opposite of their philosophy. Not sure why you're thinking I ever suggested that.


They are going to have to make a big decision next year.

Correct. And that decision will probably be made based on how Brady performs this season. If he's still playing at an MVP level, you move Jimmy.

PurePlayer
March 1st, 2017, 10:47 AM
Hell nah, that would be the exact opposite of their philosophy. Not sure why you're thinking I ever suggested that.



Correct. And that decision will probably be made based on how Brady performs this season. If he's still playing at an MVP level, you move Jimmy.

It was because you suggested they franchise him. Unless Brady retires, I could see him playing at a high level for the next 3 years, at least.

Fro
March 1st, 2017, 10:57 AM
I suggested they franchise and trade him. Zero chance they go into 2018 with Jimmy playing under the franchise tag as a backup. What I think you're saying is what if they franchise him but then no one wants to trade for him, in your words the league calls their bluff, but that's not going to happen. The Pats know his value based on the offers/conversations they've already had for him. They did it with Matt Cassel before (franchised him then traded him roughly a month later). Sure Jimmy's value next year under the tag is less than it is now with a cheap year remaining, but it's not as if all of a sudden no one would touch him. Matt Cassel (under the franchise tag) and Mike Vrabel got them the 34th overall pick, for comparison.

PurePlayer
March 1st, 2017, 11:42 AM
I suggested they franchise and trade him. Zero chance they go into 2018 with Jimmy playing under the franchise tag as a backup. What I think you're saying is what if they franchise him but then no one wants to trade for him, in your words the league calls their bluff, but that's not going to happen. The Pats know his value based on the offers/conversations they've already had for him. They did it with Matt Cassel before (franchised him then traded him roughly a month later). Sure Jimmy's value next year under the tag is less than it is now with a cheap year remaining, but it's not as if all of a sudden no one would touch him. Matt Cassel (under the franchise tag) and Mike Vrabel got them the 34th overall pick, for comparison.

It will all depend on the market. If there are teams out there that didn't get their guy in this draft or their QB gets hurt then it's possible they get good value for him.

Matt Cassel also played a full season and went 11-5. There was a much bigger sample size. I understand JG has more potential than Cassel had but it's a tough comparison to make because of the circumstances

TimeSplitter
March 1st, 2017, 11:58 AM
Wasn't Mike Vrabel part of that trade too?

BigAl
March 3rd, 2017, 10:36 AM
Jets cut Brandon Marshall after he declines an extension, rumors are that they plan to cut Decker as well.

Very classy goodbye post on IG (https://www.instagram.com/p/BRKjSBFB03z/) from Marshall. He even thanks the janitors by name.

Judas Iscariot
March 3rd, 2017, 12:24 PM
Completely blowing it up. It's something they needed to do a while ago.

Percussion
March 6th, 2017, 12:18 PM
So, after the combine and the teams looking at QB heading into FA/the draft ...

Cleveland - picks 1 & 12
San Francisco - pick 2
Chicago - pick 3
New York J - pick 6
Buffalo - pick 10
Arizona - pick 13
Houston - pick 25

QB's likely available in FA/trade who could possibly start elsewhere immediately ...

Tony Romo
Jimmy Garappolo
Tyrod Taylor
Jay Cutler
Colin Kaepernick
Mike Glennon
Ryan Fitzpatrick

QB prospects heading into 2017 draft ...

Mitchell Trubisky
Deshaun Watson
Pat Mahomes
Nathan Peterman
Brad Kaaya
Chad Kelly
Deshone Kizer
Davis Webb

Only looking at this from a Texans-centric point of view, best case scenario we could pull off a deal for Jimmy G. He'd be at the top of the board ranking all these QBs in one big group taking into account talent/age/affordability/potential. Doubt BB wants to trade to an already playoff team in conference that really just needs better QB play. But who knows. Next up would be to take a flier on a team-friendly Romo deal while drafting a young arm. That arm for me, taking into account draft position, would go ...

Mahomes - off-schedule in a pass-happy offense. but absolutely loaded with tools and intangibles, with seemingly good enough head for next-level coaching.
Peterman - appears to have B+ traits across the board, and that could work. interested, but would like to pick up at least a solid piece or two first.
Kaaya - C+/B- traits across the board. If we do absolutely nothing else and he's still there in the 3rd/4th then sure.
Kelly - billion dollar arm, head like a bag of cats. hopefully he wants to be a pro bad enough to cool his shit at the next level. arm is worth a later round risk.

Anyone else a fan of a team in need of an arm and looked into who you may count on next season?

Bandit
March 6th, 2017, 8:21 PM
Opening Survey:
Who will win Super Bowl 52? The Packers
Which team will gain/lose the most wins vs their 2016 total? Jaguars gain the most wins from 2016; Cowboys lose the most
Which new head coach will be the most successful? I don't think any of them make the playoffs, but I'll go with Marrone because I think he'll have the most positive change in his first season.
Who would you draft with the #1 fantasy pick right now? Gut instinct is David Johnson or LeVeon Bell, but I want to see how FA and the draft pans out.

Fro
March 6th, 2017, 11:27 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6Q18xbWUAA6Mst.jpg

Legend

Fro
March 7th, 2017, 9:58 AM
Biggest couple days in the offseason other than the draft begins at noon today. Let the free agent frenzy begin. Smash that twitter refresh button, gents.

Honey_Badger
March 7th, 2017, 9:59 AM
Deion was correct, he was gone way before the 10th pick. Legend is correct.

BigAl
March 7th, 2017, 10:07 AM
Biggest couple days in the offseason other than the draft begins at noon today. Let the free agent frenzy begin. Smash that twitter refresh button, gents.

Who do you see being reported as being signed as the biggest surprise on the first day of free agency? AP?

Honey_Badger
March 7th, 2017, 10:31 AM
Alshon Jeffery to the Cardinals.

Kneeneighbor
March 7th, 2017, 10:32 AM
Brandon Marshall to the Pats.

Fro
March 7th, 2017, 10:39 AM
Who do you see being reported as being signed as the biggest surprise on the first day of free agency? AP?

Hard to say... there isn't a whole lot that would surprise me. The big names usually fall pretty quickly once the legal tampering period begins.

Everyone is saying the Bears are going to give Mike Glennon $15 mil a year, lol. So are they wanting him as their starter?

Kneeneighbor
March 7th, 2017, 10:43 AM
Paying Gelnnon and then drafting someone to take over in a year or two seems like an okay plan. Its not like they are just a QB away from the playoffs.

PurePlayer
March 7th, 2017, 11:23 AM
Kenny Stills or Britt to Eagles. I guess that wouldn't be a surprise

PurePlayer
March 7th, 2017, 11:29 AM
I don't get this mumbo jumbo that you could negotiate but not sign players. Why doesn't free agency just start today? Why this nonsense of waiting until thursday?

Kneeneighbor
March 7th, 2017, 11:34 AM
The idea is that it gives time for everyone to make a pitch to the player who would like to.

Guys were signing deals 3 min after free agency started. You know there was illegal negotiations happening. Now those negotiations just happen in this window.

PurePlayer
March 7th, 2017, 11:35 AM
The idea is that it gives time for everyone to make a pitch to the player who would like to.

Guys were signing deals 3 min after free agency started. You know there was illegal negotiations happening. Now those negotiations just happen in this window.

But doesn't it just open teams and players for illegal activity that the NFL claims they don't want? Obviously teams are breaking the rules. So technically if players are "signing" today anyway, what's the point of this window? I remember in prior years we see headlines that such and such player agreed with such and such team before free agency even began.

Kneeneighbor
March 7th, 2017, 11:37 AM
No one is signing today. They can agree to terms but that doesn't mean someone cannot swoop in and make a better deal between now and when they can sign.

BigAl
March 7th, 2017, 11:39 AM
Because they're not officially "signing" today. They're agreeing in principal to a deal but the deal isn't officially signed until Thursday so if another team comes in and makes a better offer the player can sign that deal instead.

Fro
March 7th, 2017, 7:18 PM
https://twitter.com/ChadwikoRCC/status/839249622082072576

This DC guy is pretty convinced that Kirk Cousins to San Fran is going to happen.

Kneeneighbor
March 7th, 2017, 9:02 PM
Can we take a moment to acknowledge that the Redskins GM is no where to be found yet again?

How does he still have a job? And who is negotiating the trade with the 49ers?

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 10:12 AM
Yea that is a strange situation. People are guessing it's related to his alcoholism. If the team is giving him a chance to get clean instead of firing him, good on them. I'm sure they have an assistant GM who can handle this stuff for the time being.

Unrelated note, I'm reading this article on Joe Mixon's pro day on ESPN.com. In it, they mention that "The NFL instituted a new rule this year that bars players from participating in the combine if they have misdemeanor or felony convictions involving domestic violence." Okay, what does that have to do with Mixon? It's like people think domestic violence means male on female violence. It actually means violence in the home or in a relationship, which is WAY worse because the victim is trapped in their situation. Calling punching a random drunk girl at a bar domestic violence is a slap in the face to actual domestic violence victims.

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 10:35 AM
Brandon Marshall to the Giants. First big name to drop (other than guys re-signing with their own teams).

Marshall and Odell together. That should be a lot of fun, both on and off the field.

BigAl
March 8th, 2017, 10:49 AM
Wow. Didn't see that coming at all. Great pickup, and hopefully Marshall can help mentor OBJ a little bit. Get his head straight.

I think OBJ's fantasy value takes a bit of a hit here. The case could be made that Marshall will help draw coverage away from OBJ but I think in the long run he ends up taking catches away. Hope I'm wrong though.

PurePlayer
March 8th, 2017, 10:49 AM
So how can they agree to a deal before free agency starts? I don't get how this works to be honest. I know you can negotiate a deal but how can you agree? Can another team now come in and say we will give you 2 years 13 million and snatch him?

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 10:51 AM
They've verbally agreed to a deal, and it can be signed tomorrow.

BigAl
March 8th, 2017, 10:51 AM
My understanding is that yes, another team could possibly come in and offer him extra money or extra years. But that other team can't force him to sign with them, so basically it's Marshall saying "hey, I'm good with the deal I signed and I'm not listening to other offers."

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 10:54 AM
So how can they agree to a deal before free agency starts? I don't get how this works to be honest. I know you can negotiate a deal but how can you agree? Can another team now come in and say we will give you 2 years 13 million and snatch him?

You can't sign the contract until tomorrow but you can agree to terms. Theoretically either side could still back out since it's not on paper yet but that rarely ever happens.

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 11:05 AM
DeAndre Jordan

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 11:06 AM
At 2 years/12 million I'd say it's a fair deal for his 33 and 34 year old seasons. He might regress physically but they're not breaking the bank for him. I'd be happy with that deal were I a Giants fan.

LOCONUT
March 8th, 2017, 11:28 AM
Wow. Didn't see that coming at all. Great pickup, and hopefully Marshall can help mentor OBJ a little bit. Get his head straight.

I think OBJ's fantasy value takes a bit of a hit here. The case could be made that Marshall will help draw coverage away from OBJ but I think in the long run he ends up taking catches away. Hope I'm wrong though.

OBJ will get his. Sterling Shepard is the one to get fucked here. Odd signing for the giants. That money could have addressed one of their actual needs. Instead they are slowing down the development of one of the most promising WR2's in the game.

PurePlayer
March 8th, 2017, 11:33 AM
OBJ will get his. Sterling Shepard is the one to get fucked here. Odd signing for the giants. That money could have addressed one of their actual needs. Instead they are slowing down the development of one of the most promising WR2's in the game.

They could draft a running back and o line help.

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 11:46 AM
I don't remember where I heard it, but some radio show said Marshall was likely to sign with a team in either LA or New York to continue doing his broadcasting on the side. Narrowed it down to three teams if that is true.

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 11:50 AM
They could draft a running back and o line help.

Everything I have read has said deep draft at RB, very thin at OL.

Judas Iscariot
March 8th, 2017, 12:18 PM
I like Marshall but if Eli only has two seconds to throw the ball what does it matter?

PurePlayer
March 8th, 2017, 12:21 PM
Everything I have read has said deep draft at RB, very thin at OL.

draft oline early and running back late would be the best bet i guess.

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 12:29 PM
@mortreport: When Pierre Garcon finalizes deal with 49ers, as expected, league sources believe he will make $16 million in first year.

So that means he'll make 4 million more in year 1 than Marshall will make in 2 seasons, if these numbers hold true (granted we should wait for the final figures). That seems crazy. Garcon is only 1 year younger and not nearly as good.

Marshall may have taken less money to stay in NY because, as TS said, he already has his eyes on his broadcasting career.

EDIT: Garcon is 2 years younger, my mistake.

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 12:49 PM
I know the Niners have a ton of cap space, but that's a lot. Maybe setting the stages for a Cousins trade?

PurePlayer
March 8th, 2017, 2:12 PM
@mortreport: When Pierre Garcon finalizes deal with 49ers, as expected, league sources believe he will make $16 million in first year.

So that means he'll make 4 million more in year 1 than Marshall will make in 2 seasons, if these numbers hold true (granted we should wait for the final figures). That seems crazy. Garcon is only 1 year younger and not nearly as good.

Marshall may have taken less money to stay in NY because, as TS said, he already has his eyes on his broadcasting career.

EDIT: Garcon is 2 years younger, my mistake.

that is a weird weird deal to give him. you could have gotten Alshon for that money or a tad more for that I would think right? Has to be something in that contract that we don't know about where it is front loaded and the next years the cap hit isn't nearly as much

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 2:18 PM
He did have a great year when Shanny was his OC. I'm sure that plays a part in the decision. He's apparently a good blocker for a WR.

Percussion
March 8th, 2017, 2:20 PM
Courting Kirk Cousins?

Kdestiny
March 8th, 2017, 2:22 PM
that is a weird weird deal to give him. you could have gotten Alshon for that money or a tad more for that I would think right? Has to be something in that contract that we don't know about where it is front loaded and the next years the cap hit isn't nearly as much

From what I'm hearing the Bears are offering Jeffrey 14-15 mil a year with possible incentives based on performance and health.

I heard the market for him wasn't as huge as his agent thought it would be. Must be sure to his injury history and not being able to play a full season of late

Edit: As I say that he's been spotted in Philadelphia

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 2:42 PM
I was just chatting with a co-worker, who is from Chicago, and he says that outside of the cubs it is hard for Chicago teams to land free agents lately. Why (other than the bears are bad lately) is this the case?

Judas Iscariot
March 8th, 2017, 2:46 PM
They're afraid they'll get shot.

BigAl
March 8th, 2017, 2:46 PM
Violence in the city is out of control?

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 2:47 PM
I think it probably has to do with that particular fan's idiocy.

Kdestiny
March 8th, 2017, 2:50 PM
I was just chatting with a co-worker, who is from Chicago, and he says that outside of the cubs it is hard for Chicago teams to land free agents lately. Why (other than the bears are bad lately) is this the case?

There's some sort of law being put in place that I believe would hurt benefits for retired players.

The head of the NFLPA has essentially told free agents to not sign with Chicago

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 2:52 PM
Bingo.

They want to cut off workmen's comp for athletes at 35.

Kdestiny
March 8th, 2017, 2:53 PM
Bingo.

They want to cut off workmen's comp for athletes at 35.

Is it them or is it government officials?

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 2:53 PM
Here is the article. Its being pushed by Bears owners.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/02/03/demaurice-smith-nflpa-will-sway-players-from-signing-with-bears-if-illinois-workers-comp-bill-passes/

Kdestiny
March 8th, 2017, 2:56 PM
Shit

Pretty bad on their part and just a bad idea all around

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 2:59 PM
Tyrod re-signs in Buffalo. Didn't expect that.

Romo will be released by the Cowboys tomorrow, per reports. Allows him to pick where he wants to go. Everyone says Denver. I still think it could be Houston.

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 2:59 PM
I think he would chose Houston if the money was equal. I'm not sure how they will structure it to pay him.

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 3:03 PM
I think he would chose Houston if the money was equal. I'm not sure how they will structure it to pay him.

Especially with Brock still under contract. The bears should really look at that example before signing Glennon to big money

Percussion
March 8th, 2017, 3:07 PM
I'd imagine it to be something like a 2-year deal with a low base the first year heavy in playing-time incentives and a backloaded second year, while concurrently looking to draft a kid in the first few rounds (Mahomes, Peterman, Kaaya, Kelly) to groom during those two seasons.

Brock only has this coming seasons guaranteed money left before he's cut relatively scott free.

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 4:41 PM
Hoyer to the 49ers.

I assume there is another QB piece to fall there and he will be the back up.

TimeSplitter
March 8th, 2017, 4:46 PM
Hoyer to the 49ers.

I assume there is another QB piece to fall there and he will be the back up.

Or he's a one year stop-gap to groom a rookie.

Kneeneighbor
March 8th, 2017, 5:18 PM
Yeah, but I'd expect the rookie to push him this year to start.

Also no state tax in Houston for Romo if he stays in Texas.

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 5:52 PM
The Pats trade for Dwayne Allen from the Colts to be their new #2 Tight End, replacing Martellus Bennett.

I like it. Bennett wasn't going to come back. Allen is known as a good blocker. Big dude (6'3).

Compensation not yet revealed but likely a late pick.

EDIT: we gave up a 4th rounder to get Allen and the Colts' 6th rounder. Not bad.

Randolph
March 8th, 2017, 6:22 PM
Hoyer to the 49ers.

I assume there is another QB piece to fall there and he will be the back up.

That means Cousins is staying put for now. 49ers, for however incompetent they are, have a good chance at a clean start and a
good rebuilding project. Too bad they have an inexperienced GM at the helm.

BigAl
March 8th, 2017, 6:53 PM
The Pats trade for Dwayne Allen from the Colts to be their new #2 Tight End, replacing Martellus Bennett.

I like it. Bennett wasn't going to come back. Allen is known as a good blocker. Big dude (6'3).

Compensation not yet revealed but likely a late pick.

EDIT: we gave up a 4th rounder to get Allen and the Colts' 6th rounder. Not bad.

Damn it.

Fro
March 8th, 2017, 7:46 PM
Damn it.

You're a Colts fan right. What're your thoughts on Allen? Seems like the new GM was down on him and needed to dump him after the Jack Doyle signing. Injury prone, good blocker, good in the red zone is what I'm seeing.

Kdestiny
March 8th, 2017, 7:51 PM
You're a Colts fan right. What're your thoughts on Allen? Seems like the new GM was down on him and needed to dump him after the Jack Doyle signing. Injury prone, good blocker, good in the red zone is what I'm seeing.

This draft is deep at TE they will be able to find a new one

BigAl
March 8th, 2017, 8:01 PM
Above average blocker and great hands in the red zone. Allen was top three for TEs in the red zone since 2013. His value was primarily in his blocking due to the dreadful offensive line the Colts have had for the past couple seasons. Didn't really blossom into the pass catching TE the team thought he would for that reason. They also just re-signed Doyle and can pick up a TE in the draft. A 4th round pick is a good return for what the Colts traded, but I'm still bummed. He was one of my favorites and I had him on a championship fantasy team. He'll do very well with Brady.

Pablo Diablo
March 9th, 2017, 9:04 AM
Dolphins wasting a lot of money so far this offseason. That's the front office mismanagement we've come to expect.

Chris Scott
March 9th, 2017, 9:15 AM
Why you say that? Dolphins fans I've read and spoke to out happy so far about Branch and especially now Kenny Stills has resigned.

Pablo Diablo
March 9th, 2017, 9:24 AM
Way too much guaranteed money for the both of them.

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 9:29 AM
I really hope Romo goes to Houston. I could see him slinging the ball to Hopkins with Miller in the backfield and a young, fast defense on the other side. Denver just seems like a destination built for failure at his age and make.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 9:29 AM
So how can they agree to a deal before free agency starts? I don't get how this works to be honest. I know you can negotiate a deal but how can you agree? Can another team now come in and say we will give you 2 years 13 million and snatch him?

Marshall was cut by the Jets and therefore was free to sign with anyone at any time. The whole 'not signing until the League year starts' thing is just for players officially contracted with a side still.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 10:06 AM
Patriots will reportedly sign Bills pro bowl CB Stephon Gilmore. Love it. Him and Butler should be a great duo. I want us to sign Butler to an extension badly but with Gilmore at least it won't be a doomsday scenario if Butler leaves next year.

Now we just need to re-sign Hightower. Hopefully. Otherwise we will be very weak at LB.

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 10:12 AM
DeSean Jackson to the Bucs.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 10:46 AM
Cousins better hope Doctson can stay on the field this year.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 10:53 AM
Cousins is laughing his way to the bank in 12 months regardless. He's in an incredible position.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 10:57 AM
He's making bank off these last two franchise tags, of course, but if he wants to come out shining in the next FA cycle for the most long-term guaranteed money..

BigAl
March 9th, 2017, 11:09 AM
Interesting debate at work this morning: if Glennon actually gets $15M, what would somebody like Rodgers get on the open market?

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 11:09 AM
He's making bank off these last two franchise tags, of course, but if he wants to come out shining in the next FA cycle for the most long-term guaranteed money..

Unless he has a Ryan Fitzpatrick 2016-level collapse on the prior year I think he'll be ok, regardless of whether he's playing in San Fran or Washington in 2017. Unless he gets injured or has that complete drop-off he is almost guaranteed to hit free agency. A genuine starting-calibre QB hitting free agency at the age of 29 is going to get paid.

Even if his play drops off a bit in 2017 teams have enough on him from the last two years to think they can get production out of him.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 11:12 AM
Interesting debate at work this morning: if Glennon actually gets $15M, what would somebody like Rodgers get on the open market?

$30 to 34 mil, something in that range.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 11:15 AM
Unless he has a Ryan Fitzpatrick 2016-level collapse on the prior year I think he'll be ok, regardless of whether he's playing in San Fran or Washington in 2017. Unless he gets injured or has that complete drop-off he is almost guaranteed to hit free agency. A genuine starting-calibre QB hitting free agency at the age of 29 is going to get paid.

Even if his play drops off a bit in 2017 teams have enough on him from the last two years to think they can get production out of him.

Cousins' could shit the bed 16 times and he's getting paid regardless, the state of the QB league, and I agree.

But ... if he'd like to not have a bummer of a season, for a) mere competition sake, and b) he'd like to maximize his career's most peak earning potential, he'd better hope for a ready Doctson.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 11:25 AM
A fit Jordan Reed probably even moreso.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 11:26 AM
True.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 11:28 AM
The New England Patriots are considering trading Malcolm Butler to the New Orleans Saints for Brandin Cooks per sources.

Mixed feelings. I would rather stand pat and field arguably the best secondary in the league with Butler-Gilmore-McCourty-Chung-Rowe but I can see why this deal would make sense. Butler is only under contract for 2017. Cooks has a team option for 2018 so he would be under control an extra year. I love Butler and I want Bill to look at him like fans do, but the Gilmore signing says they see him (with his superior physical traits) as more valuable than the scrappy undrafted guy who embodies the Patriot way. Ahhh man. Either way we gucci though. If they make this deal, Cooks better be an electric factory with Brady.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 11:28 AM
Last chance to play the QB game before the dominos start to fall tonight:

Tony Romo - Broncos
Jay Cutler - Jets
Jimmy Garoppolo - Patriots
Tyrod Taylor - Bills (confirmed?)
Colin Kaepernick - Browns
RG3 - Browns
Kirk Cousins - Redskins
Ryan Fitzpatrick - Giants
Geno Smith - Unemployed

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 11:34 AM
Interesting debate at work this morning: if Glennon actually gets $15M, what would somebody like Rodgers get on the open market?

It should be noted that $15M buts him around 24th in terms of pay for starting QBs so its not like the money is out of line if they think he is the starter. Its bottom 1/3 pay for a bottom 1/3 starting QB

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 11:41 AM
If the Patriots land Cooks, they will be set. Repeat. No one in the AFC can top them. Brady with Cooks in flat, Edelman in slot - Amendola, Hogan and Mitchell supported - with Lewis and White in the backfield, Gronk at TE and Allen in the second spot will be absolutely electric. Incredible opportunity to become one of the best passing offensives we have seen in the 21st century.

Malcom Butler is one of my favorite Pats players, but overall, I am confident that Bellicheck and Matty P. can insert anyone into those defensive schemes and have success.

I, for one, as a long-time Pats fan, hope this trade happens.

BigAl
March 9th, 2017, 11:42 AM
Has anybody said what the Saints are asking for Cooks?

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 11:47 AM
Has anybody said what the Saints are asking for Cooks?

The world, chico. And everything in it.

virms
March 9th, 2017, 11:47 AM
It should be noted that $15M buts him around 24th in terms of pay for starting QBs so its not like the money is out of line if they think he is the starter. Its bottom 1/3 pay for a bottom 1/3 starting QB

Bears paid 44 million for Glennon.

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 11:49 AM
Over 3 years... maths is hard.

virms
March 9th, 2017, 11:50 AM
Is it worth it though? And I knew it was over 3 years. Guess I should have been exact and said 43.5.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 11:51 AM
It should be noted that $15M buts him around 24th in terms of pay for starting QBs so its not like the money is out of line if they think he is the starter. Its bottom 1/3 pay for a bottom 1/3 starting QB

It's dead-last in the league in terms of QBs not on their rookie contract. It isn't middling QB money, it is poor starting QB money

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 11:52 AM
https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

There is a list where you can see what QBs were getting per year.

That was exactly my point Beefy. Its in line with where he would rank.

PurePlayer
March 9th, 2017, 11:57 AM
Has anybody said what the Saints are asking for Cooks?

basically a couple draft picks, one being a 2nd rounder and a starter on defense. I would imagine Butler, a 2nd and 4th would get the Saints to pull the trigger but knowing Cooks won't resign there and that he isn't happy there you would think the trade value would go down.

I think Butler and a 4th is enough for Cooks to be honest just like I think a 2nd and Kendricks would be enough from the eagles but what do i know

PurePlayer
March 9th, 2017, 12:13 PM
Torrey Smith not going to the Ravens after all. Eagles signing him to 3 years and 15 million. I like it. Cheap and now they can draft another outside guy.

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 12:42 PM
The Bengals have now allowed 2 pro bowl caliber O-linemen slip away from them in a week. unacceptable from a Cincinnati perspective. They failed to get rid of Marvin, and now they are losing their O-line.

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 12:54 PM
Cousins has asked Dan Snyder to trade him. Snyder told him it was doubtful. This is going to be a fun year in Washington. GM is a mess, the QB wants out and his top 2 WR threats just left.

BigAl
March 9th, 2017, 12:57 PM
Not as fun as it'll be in 2018 after Cousins bolts in free agency.

PurePlayer
March 9th, 2017, 1:34 PM
Colts, Bears, and Eagles are finalists for Jeffery. My goodness that would be a nice signing for the Eagles to go along with Torrey Smith, Jordan Matthews, and Ertz. Then they could focus on the deep corner and running back class for the draft

BigAl
March 9th, 2017, 1:43 PM
Woodhead to the Ravens, Britt to the Browns, and Hauschka to the Bills. Ted Ginn, Jr. to the Saints, so a deal for Cooks may be imminent.

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 4:43 PM
Brock has been traded (with a second) to the Browns!

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 4:46 PM
Good call by the Browns. 4th round pick for Brock a 2nd and a 6th. They can see what they get out of him for the year and go from there. Low risk for them and they can focus their picks elsewhere.

TimeSplitter
March 9th, 2017, 4:46 PM
God I love that trade. Means they are getting Romo?

Beefy
March 9th, 2017, 4:47 PM
NFL Network are suggesting that they don't even want him - they're just taking the extra second.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 4:49 PM
God I love that trade. Means they are getting Romo?

That was my first thought. it has to mean Romo to Houston.

Speaking of which, the Cowboys are now expected to trade him rather than release him. So that report from earlier in the week was wrong.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 4:49 PM
Texans get: 4th in 2017, cap space

Browns get: Brock, 6th in 2017, 2nd in 2018

Yikes.

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 4:50 PM
NFL Network are suggesting that they don't even want him - they're just taking the extra second.

You still have to think he is at least in the mix at QB there next year though right?

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 4:52 PM
The Texans just sacrificed a 2nd round to get rid of Brock. God, he is that much of a headache.

Chris Scott
March 9th, 2017, 4:55 PM
Browns getting a bit of stick but I think it's a good trade for them.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 4:55 PM
Texans message board is in full on champagne mode.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 5:00 PM
Browns might just cut Brock immediately per RapSheet.

Romo posts a goodbye vid on Instagram.

Fuck, this is really the best day of the offseason. Even better than the draft.

Free agency officially starts NOW btw. lol

Chris Scott
March 9th, 2017, 5:00 PM
Way too much guaranteed money for the both of them.

Hmmm defo Branch but Stills I'm happy with his. Also Reshad Jones just signed his new 5 year $60 million ext that includes $35 million gtd. He probably deserves it though.

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 5:03 PM
Hate giving up a 2nd.

BUT, if we land Romo we'll have essentially have swapped Brock and that 2nd in 2018 for a move up from a 6th to a 4th this year and Romo, and the room to comfortably re-sign DHop.

Fingers crossed on this bunch of batshit.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 5:04 PM
Alshon to the Eagles!

Percussion
March 9th, 2017, 5:09 PM
Good for Wentz..

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 5:12 PM
Ha. Browns are cutting Brock. They just want the picks. Good move on the Texan's behalf finding a way to dump that weak link.

As for the Eagles, what a day! Jeffery and Smith all in one day to help out Wentz. Eagles, Giants and Cowboys are going to have a ton of fun battling over the NFC East next year.

Morrison
March 9th, 2017, 5:12 PM
alshon deal looks to be a one year contract for $14 million. clearly we wanna see if he can stay healthy and unsuspended before investing long term. guessing this was an issue for the other interested teams too since he seems to be taking the deal.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 5:17 PM
Pats quietly re-sign free safety Duron Harmon and DT Alan Branch to moderate deals. Good stuff - keeping a couple key role players.

Now let's keep the big one - Hightower. Dolphins supposedly in on him too.

PurePlayer
March 9th, 2017, 5:17 PM
alshon deal looks to be a one year contract for $14 million. clearly we wanna see if he can stay healthy and unsuspended before investing long term. guessing this was an issue for the other interested teams too since he seems to be taking the deal.

I was mixed on the deal at first. Not on Alshon but the deal itself since I wanted him long term. However, thinking about it and listening to reporters on the radio it seems to be a good deal. Prove it type deal and they could always sign him long term later or franchise him if he has a good year. They are going to have a lot more money freed up with Peters, Daniel, and Celek off the books.

PurePlayer
March 9th, 2017, 5:18 PM
Hate giving up a 2nd.

BUT, if we land Romo we'll have essentially have swapped Brock and that 2nd in 2018 for a move up from a 6th to a 4th this year and Romo, and the room to comfortably re-sign DHop.

Fingers crossed on this bunch of batshit.

Heard that the Texans aren't willing to trade for him but will sign him if he gets released.

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 5:22 PM
The Jaguars are making moves to quietly field one of the best defensive units in the NFL. Ramsey and Bouye are one hell of a one-two punch.

Fro
March 9th, 2017, 5:25 PM
the Jags will stink forever though, I'm convinced.

Honey_Badger
March 9th, 2017, 5:26 PM
I am convinced that Coughlin was the perfect hire to turn the franchise around.

Morrison
March 9th, 2017, 5:26 PM
I was mixed on the deal at first. Not on Alshon but the deal itself since I wanted him long term. However, thinking about it and listening to reporters on the radio it seems to be a good deal. Prove it type deal and they could always sign him long term later or franchise him if he has a good year. They are going to have a lot more money freed up with Peters, Daniel, and Celek off the books.
yep, cutting the fat next off season frees up at least $26mil. all around a pretty decent deal.

Kneeneighbor
March 9th, 2017, 7:49 PM
Rumors are now that the Broncos have talked to the Jets about Siemian. But both the Broncos and Texans say they do not want to trade for Romo, just sign him as a FA.

TimeSplitter
March 9th, 2017, 9:14 PM
Now Cousins backs down on trade request. What a day.

The Law
March 9th, 2017, 11:52 PM
I think I like that Osweiler deal for both sides. Houston gets cap room to go after Romo. Or anyone else who's not Brock Osweiler. Cleveland gets more picks and I don't think that $16 million for this year was going to be put to much use anyway. The only way that free agents are coming to Cleveland is if they get overpaid, the Browns are only going to improve if they draft talent.

Jeffrey on a one year deal is a good move. They can tag him next year if they want. I think it was crazy of the Bears to let him walk with all the cap room they have.

I didn't realize the Browns get a discount on Osweiler if they cut him and he signs somewhere else. Whatever the team that signs him pays him comes off Cleveland's cap hit. Based on the deals Matt Schaub and Brian Hoyer got there's going to be somebody that pays Osweiler a couple million as a backup.

Beefy
March 10th, 2017, 5:46 AM
On the other hand Brock has no reason to take any gig this year if he is cut because unless someone pays him a contract worth more than $16m (which obviously won't happen) then he's no better-off financially on the field getting hit than he is staying at home. You'd naturally think that he'd want for the sake of his career to be competing somewhere but you look at a guy like Mike Glennon and realise that a QBs stock can actually sky-rocket by not playing and people not remembering how average/poor he is.

Fro
March 10th, 2017, 8:56 AM
Is that right? I didn't think it worked like that. I think if he signed somewhere for 2 mil he'd make an extra 2 mil despite any cap hit adjustment that Cleveland would get.

Other news, Jimmy G posts a goodbye post on Instagram but apparently it's a hack but it's still up as of this moment so I don't know wtf is going on.

Beefy
March 10th, 2017, 9:19 AM
I think I read that he has got offset money in his contract so anything he gets paid elsewhere reduces what the Browns have to pay him. It's the same story with Revis who has an offset clause in his Jets contract.

Romo doesn't have that offset agreement in his contract so if and when he is cut he gets to double-dip on his wages next year.

EDIT - yep:

"If they’d trade him, it would surely be for much less than the $16 million in guaranteed salary Osweiler will earn this year. The new team would take Osweiler’s contract at a reduced rate, and the Browns would pay the difference.

The same thing will happen if the Browns cut him, however. Given the presence of offset language in the contract, the Browns would pay the difference between whatever Osweiler gets on the open market and $16 million."

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/09/browns-will-trade-or-cut-brock-osweiler/

Kneeneighbor
March 10th, 2017, 9:29 AM
And that is the language that kept Joey Bosa out of training camp last year. He would not sign if it was in the contract.

Fro
March 10th, 2017, 10:08 AM
Gotcha. If I were the Browns, I would keep him or at least entertain that possibility. He seems better than their other QB options at the moment. Why not keep a guy with starting experience since you're on the hook for his huge contract anyway, and hope he can improve? And if they draft a rookie, it's good to have a veteran there with him to compete. But we may be past that point since they've made it clear they don't want him so that bridge is pretty much burnt. Bizarre situation. They should have handled it more gracefully to keep the door open for Brock to stay on the roster, IMO. Imagine being so bad that even the Browns won't have you. Yikes. Brock has to be feeling like dirt.

Back to Jimmy G, the weird thing is, Schefter is dying on the hill of the Patriots not trading him no matter what. He's so adamant about it, basically getting upset if you say otherwise. He's balls to the wall that Jimmy will be on the Pats roster next year even if they get offered 4 first round picks. Jimmy's instagram post is killing him. If a trade happens, Schefter's reaction has become must-watch. It would be the most wrong he's ever been and he might explode.

Some people think Jimmy posted the pic himself because he's trying to force a trade or show that he's upset with being a backup again. Some people think the Pats are using Schefter as a stooge to get the price up. A lot of ins, a lot of outs, a lot of what-have-yous.

Kneeneighbor
March 10th, 2017, 10:13 AM
Redskins have fired their GM as well.

PurePlayer
March 10th, 2017, 10:14 AM
They should have handled it more gracefully to keep the door open for Brock to stay on the roster, IMO. Imagine being so bad that even the Browns won't have you. Yikes. Brock has to be feeling like dirt.


At least he can be a very rich pile of dirt. The type of soil that is great for growing plants and veggies.

PurePlayer
March 10th, 2017, 10:14 AM
Redskins have fired their GM as well.

i don't know what's more bizarre. This or the Browns/Texans deal.

Honey_Badger
March 10th, 2017, 10:23 AM
The Browns/Texans deal was brilliant. The Texans dumped dead weight while opening up cap space, while the Browns landed a second round draft pick, which is huge for a franchise in a state of rebuilding. I love the move, and found it to be collaboratively brilliant.

Chris Scott
March 10th, 2017, 6:18 PM
Dolphins making some good FA signings.

Beefy
March 10th, 2017, 6:32 PM
The Dolphins win the off-season most off-seasons

hithit
March 10th, 2017, 7:23 PM
Love what the Packers are doing. All these free agents they've signed should really put us over the top. Oh wait.....

TimeSplitter
March 10th, 2017, 7:39 PM
Love what the Packers are doing. All these free agents they've signed should really put us over the top. Oh wait.....

Martellus Bennett signed ten minutes ago...

Judas Iscariot
March 10th, 2017, 7:51 PM
The Dolphins win the off-season most off-seasons

According to Rex Ryan every team he's coached has won the off-season every single time.

Torn
March 10th, 2017, 8:52 PM
Love what the Packers are doing. All these free agents they've signed should really put us over the top. Oh wait.....

Free agency is fools gold

Honey_Badger
March 10th, 2017, 8:53 PM
Holy Batman! Pats land Cooks from Saints AND keep Butler. Give up first and third round pick, get 4th in return. Incredible.