Who should be the next England manager?

[Simon]

WELL?

Not the most inspiring selection of English choices, but given the latest failure was an Englishman I assume we're going back to a foreigner this time? IMO there is no adequate English choice - Southgate is a proven failure at U21 level (failed to get England out of the group stages at the last three tournaments I think?), Allardyce and Redknapp are probably the 'best' options but have probably both burned their bridges, Howe's too young, Pardew's too much of a bell. I'd love it if we could persuade Wenger but it seems unlikely, so my choice would be Hiddink - he's got experience of managing in England, is a proven international coach and seems a likeable bloke who would get the media onside. He's probably the only person who ticks both the "would be a good choice" and "is potentially gettable" boxes.

[MikeHunt]

It's going to be Southgate and he'll be the same as all the rest.

[Grimario]

Ange Postecoglu

[JP]

Out of that list, Wenger or Hiddink.

Harry Redknapp - brace yourself for this - has just suggested Tim Sherwood. Tim fucking Sherwood.

"Redknapp also suggested former Tottenham and Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood as a possible option."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36648824

[Simon]

TACTICS TIM! "I ain't never been more down than this". Give it time mate.

[MikeHunt]

is there actaully any decent realistic options?

who on earth would actually want the job for a kick off such a poisoned chalice, media constantly up your arse, a bunch of players that care more about their brand than anything else. it must be horrible.

[JP]

Football365 have suggested Blanc, which is definitely a better shouter than any of the English names doing the rounds.

[MikeHunt]

Football365 have suggested Blanc, which is definitely a better shouter than any of the English names doing the rounds.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL2DH-nKBeA

[Spedizzo]

england lost to a country that has more volcanos than soccer players :lol:

who cares who their manager is???? might as well be me

I can do just as good as a job as any other manager they have in making angry faces on the side of the pitch like a buffoon

[Spedizzo]

As an American outsider who watches quite a bit of international sports (a lot of rugby) the English media is definitely one of the most arrogant and annoying when it comes to big international games and tournaments

All week the media was talking about "well, when England beats Iceland" essentially looking past them completely. The English commentators are always biased. I have a few Welsh friends who I play some games with on XB1 and they are always telling me something silly the English media has said in regards to an upcoming game and how funny it is when the English side loses and how grim it is over there.

[Romford Pele]

Out of that list, Wenger or Hiddink.

Harry Redknapp - brace yourself for this - has just suggested Tim Sherwood. Tim fucking Sherwood.

"Redknapp also suggested former Tottenham and Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood as a possible option."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/36648824

agahshahahahhshshshshshshs

I voted Hiddink.

[Romford Pele]

I love the fact that Arry says Tactics Tim has pashun and enthusiasm....do we ever fucking learn!!

[Mik]

Its about time the English public realised that this desire for an 'English manager' is bullshit and hasnt done us any good so far.

[Romford Pele]

How can Tim Sherwood be in the same time zone as the likes of Hiddink and Blanc let alone the same conversation? It is perverse how crap English managers seem to be untouchable

I could not care less if the manager is English or not, it should be on ability and nothing else.

[StevieV]

I voted for wenger. It's all utter shit though.

[wardy]

Ronny Deila's available.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Glenn Hoddle hahahahahajhaa

[JP]

Glenn Hoddle hahahahahajhaa

How is that Hoddle comes up every time?

He's been out of management for a decade and his commentary points to someone who has been left behind. Also, you know, disabled kids are evil etc.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

He's also just a man attached to a giant beige trouser-coated scrotum at this point, rather than a sentient human.

[G-Fresh]

Sam Allardyce. Is he good? He has a cool name.

[Romford Pele]

No he's awful.

[G-Fresh]

Well fuck.

[JP]

Sam Allardyce. Is he good? He has a cool name.

Beefcaaaaake - Allardyce in a word.

[Rip]

Clive Woodward.

Honestly though there's no real chance of us winning anything with the current crop if they can't be arsed to turn up against 'lesser' teams, can't perform at tournaments and don't bloody travel well.

Then again anyone who drops Hart is off to a good start.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Forster is probably a better keeper at this stage anyway.

[Simon]

Hart's had a shit tournament but he hasn't done much wrong prior to that for a long time, has he? I think Butland is potentially a real class act but wouldn't be quick to bin Hart, especially with so few experienced players in the side.

[Simmo Fortyone]

Ange Postecoglu
No.

Stay away from our Super Wog

[Grimario]

No.

Stay away from our Super Wog

He's my super wog too, you numpty. But we have Super Josep Gombau in as well, so we have back up.

[Mik]

No he's awful.

Awful in this thread, 'limited' in the other. He's managed 8 clubs over the last 25 years and more or less left all of them in a better position than he found them.

I dont think that he's right for the England job, but please explain to me what's 'awful' about that as a record.

[Simon]

Don't worry lads, the FA have got it covered - they've approached a cycling man for the job.

[Simon]

Allardyce is being interviewed for the post :nono:

[The Rosk]

Who gives a fuck? What else can we expect?

[Simon]

We should expect nothing, it'll make no difference, I'd just rather not see as much of Allardyce's fat, self-satisfied face. Having said that, it might shut that dickhead up about not being given opportunities if he was given the chance and inevitably failed.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

At least Allardyce is a manager. Glenn Hoddle appears to be a serious contender and he's a terrible pundit. I don't really see how the issue that got him sacked in the first place is somehow negated by it being a few years ago. If he'd said "black people have been painted by God so you know they were evil in a past life", he wouldn't even be a crap pundit now, so I really don't see why he gets leeway for being terribly insulting towards disabled people.

[Simon]

The thing is, even if you accept that he's changed his beliefs and that he should be given another chance...it's not like England was his last job. Following that sacking he was managing on and off for eight years with little or no success.

He did reasonably well at Southampton to cement a mid-table position, was sacked two months into his second season with Tottenham with the the team in the relegation zone, then finished outside the play-offs with a much-fancied Wolves side in his only full season in the Championship, and that was his last job. The modern day equivalent is probably someone like Owen Coyle, if Owen Coyle thought making fun of dyslexic people makes you turn dyslexic.

[Clive Plasma]

C'mon Allardyce! He's perfect for the job. Picks up a struggling team, and will get them to barely qualify for the next tournament, and then leave them once they're in a better than average place.

http://www.matchpint.co.uk/imagenes/userfiles/images/article-0-074E1F0B000005DC-237_468x335.jpg

[The Beer Monster]

I'll do it, but I want all the settings on easy.

[JP]

So the FA have interviewed Allardyce but he obviously hasn't blown them away as they're still talking to others.

Namely, today, Steve Bruce.

I can never be objective about Bruce, he's practically the messiah round these parts.

[Simon]

:banghead:

[Murphy]

:D

I do find it pretty amazing that he was never capped by England.

[Simon]

Yeah there's a grim irony that he never got capped as a player when he did deserve it, and he could end up coaching them when he shouldn't be anywhere fucking near it. Which is great, because if there's anything I love more than a competent England team, it's irony.

[MMH]

Who do you want Simon?

There is fuck all out there.

[Simon]

Who do you want Simon?

There is fuck all out there.

It's a pretty weak shortlist but the best choices for me would be Wenger (even if we had to wait a year) or Hiddink, with Redknapp a distant third choice if the other two weren't interested. It's embarrassing that Redknapp is probably the best English option, but I do think there's something to be said for having someone who is by his own admission a pure motivator, which is probably more useful in international football where time to work on tactics is limited. Obviously none of them are going to take England beyond the quarters at a major tournament though, so it might as well be Allardyce or Bruce for all the difference it'll make.

[MikeHunt]

Be a bit more positive Simon!

[MMH]

It's a pretty weak shortlist but the best choices for me would be Wenger (even if we had to wait a year) or Hiddink, with Redknapp a distant third choice if the other two weren't interested. It's embarrassing that Redknapp is probably the best English option, but I do think there's something to be said for having someone who is by his own admission a pure motivator, which is probably more useful in international football where time to work on tactics is limited. Obviously none of them are going to take England beyond the quarters at a major tournament though, so it might as well be Allardyce or Bruce for all the difference it'll make.

Why would Wenger take the job though? Hiddink is an Ok shout but he is getting on (70 isnt he?) and Redknapp....blimey. Its 2016. I would say Allardyce is just as good a motivator as Redknapp personally.

As you say though, I dont think it matters at all who is in charge.

[Murphy]

Yeah, Redknapp is 69 himself.

Fuck it, give it to Fat Sam.

[Simon]

Why would Wenger take the job though? Hiddink is an Ok shout but he is getting on (70 isnt he?) and Redknapp....blimey. Its 2016. I would say Allardyce is just as good a motivator as Redknapp personally.

As you say though, I dont think it matters at all who is in charge.

Wenger can't have long left in the job, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his final year so why not take a run at him. With regard to age, even if we only had someone of Hiddink's ilk for one tournament it might spark something, get rid of the panic-stricken fear the players seem to have at tournaments. Redknapp I can't particularly vouch for as I don't think he would do a particularly good job, I just think he is better than most of the alternatives and crucially I don't hate him or his style of football as much as Allardyce. I'm not going to lie, I don't rate Allardyce but him being a total cunt who plays awful football is a big part of not wanting him as manager. As with Pardew, I almost wouldn't want us to do well with him in charge because then we'd have to put up with that cunty face smirking all the time.

[son_of_foley]

I dream of a future were Sam Allardyce wins the Euros for England Beefy makes all the kids call him "SIR SAM" whilst necking pints of Stella in Southend with a big spaz gold chain round his neck

[JP]

I dream of a future were Sam Allardyce wins the Euros for England Beefy makes all the kids call him "SIR SAM" whilst necking pints of Stella in Southend with a big spaz gold chain round his neck

I liked The Hunger Games too.

[Beefy]

Fuck off Sam Allardyce. Just... just fuck off.

[MMH]

Wenger can't have long left in the job, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his final year so why not take a run at him. With regard to age, even if we only had someone of Hiddink's ilk for one tournament it might spark something, get rid of the panic-stricken fear the players seem to have at tournaments. Redknapp I can't particularly vouch for as I don't think he would do a particularly good job, I just think he is better than most of the alternatives and crucially I don't hate him or his style of football as much as Allardyce. I'm not going to lie, I don't rate Allardyce but him being a total cunt who plays awful football is a big part of not wanting him as manager. As with Pardew, I almost wouldn't want us to do well with him in charge because then we'd have to put up with that cunty face smirking all the time.

Does he really play awful football though?

I think thats a myth. He plays with whatever hand he is dealt with. With access to better players who knows what he could do? As I have said before he has proven that he isnt adverse to using gifted players.

Im sure Portugal are not arsed that they played pretty dull football this summer.

[Simon]

Allardyce does play shit football. When has he ever not? People talk about Okocha at Bolton but the entire team was built to of workhorses to cover for him.

With regard to Portugal - you're right, but the point is that England aren't going to win a tournament any time soon. I'd rather fail trying to play decent football than fail by lumping the ball up to Andy Carroll fifty times every game.

[son_of_foley]

I think having someone like Callum Wilson up there for a direct option with lots of busy players around him would be great. Probably better than Rooney floating a 35 yard ball out to slow the whole fucking game down as Clyne or whoever has to chest it down

[son_of_foley]

I mean if there was a footballing genius who was shunted out of the side to make room for someone fair enough but is there? Who are these great footballing players who aren't getting a game or are being shunted into a system they don't suit? Or do you think Hodgson was telling them to play like dickheads. I'm genuinely interested.


Also how much would Allardyce love a goal scoring midfielder like Dele Alli

MMH, he sort of didn't like the flair players that were bought for West Ham. Don't know if that was a reaction to how they were bought but the West Ham fans weren't a big fan of the football played. I think one of the most important bits of chosing a footballing identity to build towards is that it's attainable. Michael O'Neill originally wanted to play a short passing game with lots of tricky and (for us) technically capable players. He found that didn't work too much as we conceeded a lot of goals so he went more organized. The football going forward is still pretty good but first and foremost we're solid. That's realistic for us.

Do you want England to play like Spurs?

[Gary J]

Even if Allardyce teams play shit football (which other then his Blackburn team I think is unfair) it's not like we've been playing great attractive football recently. If anything it'll be a relief to see us stop trying to play tika taka when they obviously didn't have a clue what they were doing.

Also Simon you say we should make a run for Wenger and then point out you would like to see an end of the panic that sets in at tournaments surely Wenger is the last man we should approaching when we lack mental strength as Arsenal prove every season.

[MMH]

England need an identity even if its is Allardyce's brand of football. Pick players based on the system and if those players are not available you pick the next in line. International football without a set system is just madness.

[Mik]

Allardyce does play shit football. When has he ever not? People talk about Okocha at Bolton but the entire team was built to of workhorses to cover for him.

With regard to Portugal - you're right, but the point is that England aren't going to win a tournament any time soon. I'd rather fail trying to play decent football than fail by lumping the ball up to Andy Carroll fifty times every game.

When have we ever tried to play decent football? Or even got close to it.

[Simon]

I don't think we've ever set out to play negatively, we're just no good.

[MikeHunt]

It makes me so happy to hear everyone finally admitting that.

[Beefy]

Everyone has always admitted that. We have to watch them.

[MikeHunt]

haha. ok.

[Simon]

I saw a lot of similar comments on F365 after England went out (all from Scots btw) - it just doesn't stand up to any scrutiny at all, if there were any England fans or pundits overrating the team's chances I didn't see them. I listened to a lot of podcasts in the build-up to the tournament and foreign pundits were way more positive about England's chances than the English.

[MikeHunt]

im not specifically talking about this tournament.

as I said before the euros it was quite refreshing to hear fans/pundits not overhype English players and chances as in my lifetime it has never ever ever happened.

[Simon]

England haven't been overhyped for the best part of a decade. I can't remember what the media thought of England's chances prior to the failure to qualify for 2008, but certainly expectations were not high for 2010 or any tournament since. 2014 is a slight exception in that there was a general feeling that England had a good side, but an incredibly tough group - if it wasn't for the tough group maybe expectations would have been high then. But 2006 is the last time I remember where fans or media were expectant that they would get beyond the quarters.

[Beefy]

It's constantly stated as fact in Ireland too that England fans have this expectation of winning things. It is complete nonsense. Our two semi-final teams from most of our lifetimes are completely revered.

If there's a base expectation in England it is that the national team should be a quarter finalist at tournaments. Exceeding that is seen as glorious success worthy of getting the open-top bus out. Not meeting that is a failure. For a country of England's size with one sport with any real support that isn't unreasonable. I think it is fair to say that for some of Sven's tournaments in charge there were hopes that England could do better than last eight based on the players that we had at the time but even then those narrow defeats weren't really seen as failures.

[MikeHunt]

haha, ok.

[Mik]

I think what happens is that there becomes a vibe of 'can we win it? I mean...we could win it' and people interpret that as us thinking that we will win it or that we think we should win it.

[The Rosk]

We haven't expected anything for a good ten years I'd say.

[Beefy]

If you don't hope you can win any tournament then what's the point in going in the first place?

Football support is always about hope.

[BBF]

With England it's very much hope over expectation. I think the only time expectation was heaped on was with THE GOLDEN GENERATION which was frankly bollocks.

[Simon]

I think what happens is that there becomes a vibe of 'can we win it? I mean...we could win it' and people interpret that as us thinking that we will win it or that we think we should win it.


But even that hasn't been the case in a long time. 2004 and 1996 are the only tournaments in my lifetime where there was a feeling we could win it, and I don't think either time was unreasonable - we lost on penalties to the beaten finalists and the winners. Maybe 2006 as well?

[Mik]

I don't think that ignorance necessarily helps your case here. Definitely at points during this tournament stuff like 'well nobody else has looked good...so why couldn't we?' And 'once we get to teams who will not just sit deep we will open a bit and look better' and 'we're due to give someone a good stuffing after dominating all our games and not scoring' came in.

Mike and the jocks aren't right, but neither are you really.

[Murphy]

From Raj Chowdhury at BBC Sport on Allardyce;

'And with his love of veterans, could he tempt Major League Soccer duo Steven Gerrard and Frank Lampard out of international retirement?'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Romford Pele]

For fucks sake.

Seriously do not want Bruce, Allardyce or Pardew. Shite cunts to a man.

[Peter Griffin]

.

[Beefy]

I think it is probably because they are all shite and they are all cunts.

[Peter Griffin]

.

[BBF]

Can we all pitch in and check on Beefy every few hours please?

[MikeHunt]

this is magnificent.

[Beefy]

They've fucking gone and done it. Fucks sake.

I don't even want to be proven wrong. I hope they lose every game.

[JP]

Oh ffs.

[MMH]

They've fucking gone and done it. Fucks sake.

I don't even want to be proven wrong. I hope they lose every game.

Well it ill make a change from winning everything in sight....

[The Rosk]

Big Sam will win us the World Cup. Got the talent lads. Now we've got the voice in the dressing room. All you need.

[Mik]

Well I think it's a bad move for club and country. All my optimism from the end of the season is now gone before we even got to the start of the next season.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Fuck it, why not Fat Sam? He's not going to be any worse than Hodgson, who is one of the most tedious, one-dimensional, regressive managers around. Daniel Agger's interview published today has him quoted saying he literally wanted to kill himself due to how boring Hodgson's training sessions were at Liverpool.

[RFF Champ]

Really? He said that? Put an asterisk next to Woy's name, Daniel Agger has marked his card.

[Romford Pele]

What a dark dark day. Fucking hell.

[BBF]

Calm down.

[son_of_foley]

Sunderland statement felt a bit weird. Share the anger and frustration of the fans... I assume because it's been leaked but seems overly strong language

[Torn]

Dark day :lol:

Not that bothered by Big Sam. We will actually play like a team atleast.

[Beefy]

Dark day :lol:

Not that bothered by Big Sam. We will actually play like a team atleast.

What is that claim based on?

[Beefy]

Apparently ten years ago he took Bolton to sixth. Yes they were one of the least attractive football clubs in the history of the Premier League but they had a 42 year old Jay Jay Okacha so footballs coming home right?

[Torn]

His recent teams at West Ham and Sunderland had structure and a plan. Things that were clearly missing from the Euros. Yes it will most likely involve some ugly football.

[Beefy]

England had a structure and plan for the last two years until kick off in the tournament when Hodgson seemed to have lost it down the back of the sofa. They had a very clear structure and plan in 2014 and 2012. Capello's team had structure and a plan in 2010. It was horrible to watch and way too rigid but they went to that tournament with a gameplan and stuck to it.

Any competent manager will get the players playing as a team.

[Simon]

Andy Carroll and Ryan Shawcross are exchanging congratulatory texts as we speak.

[MikeHunt]

my favourite thread.

so much misery.

[Peter Griffin]

.

[Peter Griffin]

What a dark dark day. Fucking hell.

.

[Simon]

my favourite thread.

so much misery.

It's all relative though init - as a Jock, you're essentially a man with no arms or legs making fun of someone with a sprained ankle.

[MikeHunt]

It's all relative though init - as a Jock, you're essentially a man with no arms or legs making fun of someone with a sprained ankle.

yeah yeah blah blah.

[Romford Pele]

Apologies Mike, this is pathetic.

Are you happy about this?!

This is worse than the wally with the brolley

[Romford Pele]

Andy Carroll and Ryan Shawcross are exchanging congratulatory texts as we speak.

Don't forget Kevin Nolan.

[Romford Pele]

my favourite thread.

so much misery.

Must be so shite being Scottish.

[Peter Griffin]

Are you happy about this?!

This is worse than the wally with the brolley

.

[Romford Pele]

Can you honestly sit there and tell me that Sam Allardyce was the best option on the planet for the FA to choose?

This is like putting a van driver in a formula 1 car

[Peter Griffin]

.

[Beefy]

No, But it's hardly a dark day is it? Think about how ridiculous that sounds with everything that is happening in the world.

Yeah we'll remember that next time you're going nuts about something some Nottingham Forest fan you'll never meet has said about Derby.

Close the forums lads, people are dying in Turkey.

[Peter Griffin]

.

[Beefy]

Looking forward to reading this edit :D

Disappointing - I was expecting a full meltdown.

[MikeHunt]

Must be so shite being Scottish.

incorrect its fucking brilliant.

i honestly think you should give up following football. all you do is fucking moan about it. do somethings that give you joy.

think about this...

my team has been genuinely destroyed over the last 5 years and has also played some of the worst football i've ever seen.

then add on that my country has been garbage during my existence on this planet.

so surely it should be me having a right good moan.

[MikeHunt]

Looking forward to reading this edit :D

Disappointing - I was expecting a full meltdown.

edit it back in.

[Romford Pele]

incorrect its fucking brilliant.

i honestly think you should give up following football. all you do is fucking moan about it. do somethings that give you joy.

think about this...

my team has been genuinely destroyed over the last 5 years and has also played some of the worst football i've ever seen.

then add on that my country has been garbage during my existence on this planet.

so surely it should be me having a right good moan.

But instead you take pleasure in seeing England fans moan?

Like others have said before, expectation is all relative. Scotland is a small country with a very limited talent pool - therefore the expectation is that you will be shite (granted 20+ years ago you did have a good side though)

England is a different story. No one (apart from tossers who write at the Sun/Star and the like) thinks they have a divine right to win anything, but we should be competitive, and in the very least not run by incompetent buffoons.

If Sam Allardyce is really the best manager the FA can get then we are all fucked.

[BBF]

Not really. I doubt his appointment as England manager will have any impact on my life. I certainly doubt it would leave me 'fucked'.

[Beefy]

It's definitely having a negative impact on my life already. Everything was going so well.

[BBF]

You have taken this really badly to be fair. Everything will remain the same, I promise. We'll qualify for the world cup, scrape through the group then lose in the knockouts as usual.

And we'll do it all with Kevin Davies up front.

[Romford Pele]

The football will be even more shite to watch (amazing I know)

[BBF]

What are you basing that on?

[Romford Pele]

Every side 'Big Sam' has ever managed?

[BBF]

But that's not entirely accurate is it. I'd argue that except for his Blackburn side and Bolton for a year he's played some reasonable football with the sides he's managed. Mik will probably be more aware than me but Sunderland didn't play bad football last season, Newcastle weren't a long ball side and his time at West Ham was largely good apart from the last season where he was hounded out.

I don't think that he's going to win us the world cup, but I don't think any manager in the world would. He'll make us competitive, give us a style of play that doesn't mean we'll be undone by any team worse than us and will probably bring some sort of spirit to the job which has been massively lacking in the past 10 years.

[BBF]

I certainly wouldn't describe this as a 'dark day' or us 'all being fucked' and I think you might be giving in to some sort of melodrama there.

[MMH]

I certainly wouldn't describe this as a 'dark day' or us 'all being fucked' and I think you might be giving in to some sort of melodrama there.

Especially as the starting point isnt exactly very high is it?

[Romford Pele]

The football at West Ham from day one was long ball and the fans hated it. Blackburn and Newcastle both were poor to watch and at Bolton the only ray of light was Jay Jay Okocha. His style of football is pretty much the same as Tony Pulis.

[BBF]

The football at West Ham from day one was long ball and the fans hated it. Blackburn and Newcastle both were poor to watch and at Bolton the only ray of light was Jay Jay Okocha. His style of football is pretty much the same as Tony Pulis.

Again all of that isn't true.

[Beefy]

His Bolton side were the ugliest football team since the Premier League was formed. This nonsense about Okacha and Djorkaeff seems to have clouded people's memories. He was the poster boy for long-ball 4-5-1.

His autobiography preaches that the most effective way to score goals is with moves of fewer than four passes. He's a fucking dinosaur.

[Simon]

His Bolton side were the ugliest football team since the Premier League was formed. This nonsense about Okacha and Djorkaeff seems to have clouded people's memories. He was the poster boy for long-ball 4-5-1.


Yep. BBF you are miles off on this one, Bolton were horrendous to watch. He's always had a skilful player or two because you do actually need to score a few goals to stay in the league, but it tended to be one or two decent players in front of nine workhorses who lumped it. It's not a myth, we all remember it.

[BBF]

His style of play was exactly what was required to keep that club in that league at that time. He left Bolton 10 years ago and since then has only resorted to that brand of football once (at Blackburn) again because that was the requirement for that club at that time.

Again,I'm not saying he is a master tactician and will win us the World Cup but to say he is a dinosaur or use a phrase last used to describe hooliganism earlier this summer is way off the mark. His training methods are up to date, potentially more so than a percentage of coaches in the Premier League, he achieves the objective at each club (bar a Newcastle side in 2007 that was run by a gibbon, and where he actually tried to promote more attractive football but was lumbered with a 84 year old Mark Viduka as his main striker) and has a reasonable record across the past 10 years (averaging a shade under 2 goals a game).

He is probably the best, REALISTIC choice available but to be honest his coaching team is potentially even more important than he is. I also think it's vitally important that he has done the shit jobs through the english leagues and has a number of viable alternatives when it comes to style of play, something that most people accused Hodgson of lacking this summer.

[Peter Griffin]

I may be imagining this but himself and Phil Brown pretty much bought sports science into football in the UK at Bolton right?

[Beefy]

His style of play was exactly what was required to keep that club in that league at that time. He left Bolton 10 years ago and since then has only resorted to that brand of football once (at Blackburn) again because that was the requirement for that club at that time.

Again,I'm not saying he is a master tactician and will win us the World Cup but to say he is a dinosaur or use a phrase last used to describe hooliganism earlier this summer is way off the mark. His training methods are up to date, potentially more so than a percentage of coaches in the Premier League, he achieves the objective at each club (bar a Newcastle side in 2007 that was run by a gibbon, and where he actually tried to promote more attractive football but was lumbered with a 84 year old Mark Viduka as his main striker) and has a reasonable record across the past 10 years (averaging a shade under 2 goals a game).

He is probably the best, REALISTIC choice available but to be honest his coaching team is potentially even more important than he is. I also think it's vitally important that he has done the shit jobs through the english leagues and has a number of viable alternatives when it comes to style of play, something that most people accused Hodgson of lacking this summer.

Did you miss his West Ham team? Their fans hated the way that they played under him.

Being honest I didn't really watch Sunderland so I've no idea what he played there but if we're saying that he only played long ball at Bolton, Blackburn and West Ham then that's 90% of his recent management career.

[Beefy]

I may be imagining this but himself and Phil Brown pretty much bought sports science into football in the UK at Bolton right?

Yeah that's right. They were certainly the most high-profile users of the prozone stats.

[BBF]

Honestly West Ham's football wasn't that bad under him. It really, really wasn't.

His training methods are better than someone like Klopp I would say. He used yoga and supplements WAY before anyone else, he was a champion for statistical analysis and data when Prozone was 2 blokes in a garage and his set piece preparation is on point (as seen by the way he improved Sunderland last year). He's also a massive disciplinarian, which is probably what the egocentric England players need.

I don't think he is our lord and saviour but he's also not a dinosaur or the person who will lead this fine country back to the dark ages like some are making out.

[son_of_foley]

Yeah that's right. They were certainly the most high-profile users of the prozone stats.

I think it might have been McClaren

[Gary J]

Andy Carroll and Ryan Shawcross are exchanging congratulatory texts as we speak.

The same Andy Carroll that Allardyce said

"Carroll could be an ever better player if he pushed himself and put the work in. He tells you he does - but he doesn't always do it,"

"He treats life a little bit too casually. He also gets himself into situations off the pitch which a manager can do without - and so can he."

Doesn't sound like he's a fan of Carroll's as for Shawcross its a travesty hes been ignored for as long as he has as he has been the best and most consistent english centre back for the past few seasons. But he got judged thanks to a 16 minute spell where Ibrahimovic took the piss.

[Mik]

I enjoyed watching Sunderland more since Allardyce took over than any other time in the past 5-10 years...albeit that the standard isnt much to compare against.

[MMH]

His Bolton side were the ugliest football team since the Premier League was formed. This nonsense about Okacha and Djorkaeff seems to have clouded people's memories. He was the poster boy for long-ball 4-5-1.

His autobiography preaches that the most effective way to score goals is with moves of fewer than four passes. He's a fucking dinosaur.

Erm....is he wrong though?

Of course its the most effective way. I assume his book is just about stating the obvious?

Oh and West Ham fans hated how they played because West Ham fans are bellends who think they are this massive paragon of footballing purity even though they are a yo yo club who have won fuck all. (except the World Cup obviously....)

Fuck West Ham. I for one welcome your new massive headed overlord.

[Beefy]

Papers over here are stating that Steven Gerrard has been lined up as Allardyce's assistant.

Somehow they've managed to make me dislike this appointment even more.

[Simon]

Remember ten years ago when Allardyce wasn't considered good enough for the job? That was at the height of his success, and he's never been that good since.

:yuck:

[Romford Pele]

Papers over here are stating that Steven Gerrard has been lined up as Allardyce's assistant.

Somehow they've managed to make me dislike this appointment even more.

Horrible.

[BBF]

I hope Allardyce plays Andy Carroll and Jermaine Defoe up front, puts 2 fingers up to the crowd then pumps his fists.

He'll do an adequate job.

[MikeHunt]

I love this notion of "we always knew we'd never win anything anyway" that's all of a sudden started. Hilarious.

I hope Big Sam is brilliant and wins everything and then tell you all you're a bunch of English bastards.

[JP]

Why I hate this appointment so much is that it takes way the illusion of hope. Since Sven resigned we've been largely shite but there's always been a chink of possible light somewhere to shine through. You hope Schteve would build on what came before, having been a part of that group. Capello had pedigree at some of the world's biggest clubs and a history of winning things. Roy had at least some history of managing big clubs and was generally well liked.

But this, this is an admission of mediocrity. We're not very good, we're not going to be very good, so we get a manager who's never managed at the top and hasn't ever won a thing.

Beige. That's what we are now, beige.

[JP]

I suppose he won promotion with Bolton. Yay.

[RFF Champ]

Why I hate this appointment so much is that it takes way the illusion of hope. Since Sven resigned we've been largely shite but there's always been a chink of possible light somewhere to shine through. You hope Schteve would build on what came before, having been a part of that group. Capello had pedigree at some of the world's biggest clubs and a history of winning things. Roy had at least some history of managing big clubs and was generally well liked.

But this, this is an admission of mediocrity. We're not very good, we're not going to be very good, so we get a manager who's never managed at the top and hasn't ever won a thing.

Beige. That's what we are now, beige.

In light of everything you've posted above, is it not time to recognise that prior club performance is not the best indicator of potential international management success?

[son_of_foley]

In light of everything you've posted above, is it not time to recognise that prior club performance is not the best indicator of potential international management success?

DING DING DING

[JP]

In light of everything you've posted above, is it not time to recognise that prior club performance is not the best indicator of potential international management success?

It's obviously more complex than simply getting a successful manager in, but when judging possible successful candidates the most obvious initial check you're going to make is of like for like performance. If they have no international experience then you have to go on their club performance. Again, beige. We've hired the man whose specialty is not being relegated into a role where the only criteria is to win things. It's a little counter-intuitive. On that basis alone I'd have gone for Bruce over Allardyce (not biased at all, honest guv').

Like everyone and their mother, I'll be more than happy if I have to eat these words in two years time.

[son_of_foley]

It's obviously more complex than simply getting a successful manager in, but when judging possible successful candidates the most obvious initial check you're going to make is of like for like performance. If they have no international experience then you have to go on their club performance. Again, beige. We've hired the man whose specialty is not being relegated into a role where the only criteria is to win things. It's a little counter-intuitive. On that basis alone I'd have gone for Bruce over Allardyce (not biased at all, honest guv').

Like everyone and their mother, I'll be more than happy if I have to eat these words in two years time.
You said hasn't managed at the top though? Bruce hasn't either. Does a league cup really mean fuck all in deciding who is going to be the best to look after the international team?

[JP]

You said hasn't managed at the top though? Bruce hasn't either. Does a league cup really mean fuck all in deciding who is going to be the best to look after the international team?

Yes, I think it does. It's proof that you can take a team through a knockout competition right to the end, which is the entire point of international football.

Don't get me wrong here, as much as I'd have taken Bruce over Allardyce I'd hardly still be swinging from the chandeliers. It highlights again the paucity of great home grown managers.

[JP]

Or to the final at least. And more promotions.

I just really dislike Allardyce. Like, irrationally so.

[MMH]

Yes, I think it does. It's proof that you can take a team through a knockout competition right to the end, which is the entire point of international football.

Don't get me wrong here, as much as I'd have taken Bruce over Allardyce I'd hardly still be swinging from the chandeliers. It highlights again the paucity of great home grown managers.

A domestic cup is won over a season. An international cup is won over a short space of time. Allardyce has proven that he can get a squad playing cohesively over a short amount of time when the pressure is on.

The snobbery of England fans amazes me.

[BBF]

If you are just looking at club achievements as an indicator then Allardyce has won the playoffs twice and got what people are referring to as a 'shocking' Bolton side to Europe.

Prior to his appointment Fernando Santos won the Primeira Liga almost 20 years ago. Now he's the manager of the European Champions. Maybe, just maybe club football and international football are entirely different monsters and the two aren't indicative of success within each other.

[Beefy]

A domestic cup is won over a season. An international cup is won over a short space of time. Allardyce has proven that he can get a squad playing cohesively over a short amount of time when the pressure is on.

The snobbery of England fans amazes me.

Snobbery? From the guy who didn't want Eddie Howe as Everton manager because he did't come from the German Third Division? Scenes.

[Beefy]

It is not snobbery to not want a guy who is an actual cunt, an actual crook and who produces horrible, horrible teams to be in what was once the top job in English football.

[The Rosk]

Snobbery? From the guy who didn't want Eddie Howe as Everton manager because he did't come from the German Third Division? Scenes.

Beefy 1-0 MMH

[Simon]

Trying to look at it objectively, I'm weighing up the pros and cons of Allardyce getting the job.

-Back-to-basics style of football should make qualification near-guaranteed, particularly given how easy it is to qualify nowadays anyway.
-Defensive setup will mask the deficiencies of a defence which is the weak point of the side.
-Has a bit of bollocks about him which should hopefully mean he'll pick his own players and not be led by the FA or the media.
-Has been at the lower-end of the PL most of his career, so should have a greater respect for the talented players at that level, offering greater hope to less known players who outperform bigger names.
-Might be motivated to prove the doubters wrong by using the talented players at his disposal to play decent football.
-If not, long-ball is at least an effective tactic when you've got someone like Carroll available (but what about the long periods when he's not?)
-Seems to be popular with his players which is a help in tournament football where motivation and confidence are key.
-Is popular with the media, which could help keep them off the players' backs (unlikely though).

On the other hand:

-He hasn't been especially successful as a PL manager.
-The successes he HAS had have not been in a realm which is comparable to international football with a relatively - decreasingly so - big side.
-Doesn't play the counter-attacking style of football to which England seem suited.
-No experience of international football.
-Plays shit football.
-Arrogant.
-Annoying face.
-Hate him.

As you can see, the positives columns has just as many points, but they're all ifs and maybes, and tenuous to the idea that he could be a success. The negatives are all major marks against him. I don't think it's a clear-cut case of "there's no way he should have got the job", in fact that's the problem - the only thing more depressing than Allardyce getting the England job is the fact that, of the handful of realistic candidates, he was probably the best option.

[son_of_foley]

It is not snobbery to not want a guy who is an actual cunt, an actual crook and who produces horrible, horrible teams to be in what was once the top job in English football.

Listen to Steve Kean here.

I take it you're not a fan of Terry Venables then?

[Beefy]

I wasn't a huge fan of Venables, no. Very few people were going into Euro 96.

[Simon]

Just thinking of possible new/returning call-ups to the squad in future now that Allardyce is in charge...

Shawcross
Noble
Cresswell
Carroll
Defoe
Pickford
Antonio
Cork
Dann
Baines
Ward
Simpson
Tomkins
Cattermole
Livermore
Huddlestone
Rodriguez
Albrighton
Deeney
Wilson
Gray
Wickham

Long list I know, just thinking about players who could theoretically fit his ethos. Any others? You'd assume Carroll is a near-certainty and I would expect Noble and Shawcross to at least make a few squads.

[Beefy]

If he calls David Beckham up to the first squad I'll get on board.

I don't think Andy Carroll is necessarily a near-certainty unless he starts the season very strongly. I think Allardyce will know what he represents in the eyes of his critics.

[Gary J]

I posted quotes yesterday where Allardyce has criticised Carroll's professionalism I highly doubt he'll even be considered for a squad while Allardyce is in charge.

[Torn]

You left off the part in the same passage where he said 'But, when fit, he should be England’s regular centre-forward.’

[Gary J]

But when is he ever fit?

I doubt he'll ever be fit enough for Allardyce overlook the flaws in his attitude that he witnessed when he was managing him.

Of course it doesn't fit the narrative (hate myself for using that word) that Allardyce has to have a big man up front.

[Beefy]

He's got Harry Kane anyway.

[Romford Pele]

Just don't let him near free kicks. Or corners.

[RFF Champ]

It's obviously more complex than simply getting a successful manager in, but when judging possible successful candidates the most obvious initial check you're going to make is of like for like performance. If they have no international experience then you have to go on their club performance. Again, beige. We've hired the man whose specialty is not being relegated into a role where the only criteria is to win things. It's a little counter-intuitive. On that basis alone I'd have gone for Bruce over Allardyce (not biased at all, honest guv').

Like everyone and their mother, I'll be more than happy if I have to eat these words in two years time.

And a team just won something with a win ratio of 14%.

[MMH]

It is not snobbery to not want a guy who is an actual cunt, an actual crook and who produces horrible, horrible teams to be in what was once the top job in English football.

What was ONCE the top job. Its not anymore. No international jobs are.

England produce horrible football no matter what.

How is he a crook by the way? Have I missed something there?

[Beefy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_English_football_corruption_investigation