NXT "World" Championship?

[Hero!]

So, a thought that crossed my mind:

The NXT Championship is the highest and most coveted prize of WWE's developmental system turned third brand. Initially it was held by typical developmental talents such as Big E and Bo Dallas, but ever since the first NXT special, this title has only been held by performers who can truly be called the best of the best in NXT and easily some of the best in the entire company. This title is sought after by wrestlers from all over the world, including multiple former world heavyweight champions elsewhere. My questions to you are:

Is it a world title? If not, should it be?

With the NXT UK special coming up, the NXT title will now have been defended on 3 different continents. The last 4 champions are from England, Canada (x2), and Ireland. The primary challengers for the title are of Nigerian and Samoan descent. The NXT title is very much a "global" championship that is contested for all around the world, by challengers from all around the world, and by many former world champions and stars from other promotions. The NXT brand, thanks to the WWE Network, is viewed by a worldwide audience and is selling out the same arenas that WWE's big shows do. At what point should we stop looking at this title as simply a championship within the WWE and start treating it as a proper world championship?

[Nash Diesel]

What and who defines what promotions have a "World" title? When ECW was the 3rd brand, their title was not recognized as a WORLD title, it was simply, the ECW heavyweight title or ECW title. They had a bigger audience than NXT, they were wrestling all over the world, defending the title everywhere, yet it was never recognized as a WORLD title.

NXT...it's still developmental no matter how you slice it. That is the bottom line. They sold out 1 arena the WWE did a big show at due to it being the night before Summerslam and I'm not saying that as a bad thing, the fact that an additional 18,000+ tickets were sold shows that in the right situations, NXT can draw (I also don't know how much the NXT tickets were, I can't imagine they were the same price as Summerslam but still, they sold that bitch out!)

So I don't know if they'll ever consider it a proper World championship simply because no matter who has worn the title, no matter who is in NXT, it's still developmental. This isn't ECW where Vince is helping them financially and trading talent, they're maybe a step below that since NXT is operated entirely under the WWE umbrella. Vince wasn't showing up at ECW shows telling Heyman what to do on t.v., where to spend the money he was giving him, none of that.

[Hero!]

The ECW title was very much treated as a world title when Big Show, Lashley, and Vince had it. Remember this?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f6/Vengeance_2007.jpg/220px-Vengeance_2007.jpg

Heck, in the 07 rumble, the winner could choose to face the ECW Champion at Mania. They demoted it after the whole Benoit thing when they decided to throw the belt on Johnny Nitro.

NXT Brooklyn was supposed to be 5,000 seats and WWE had to continue releasing tickets until they couldn't anymore. The fact that this show oversold itself by 8,000 tickets is no small feat.

[DDT]

Traditionally speaking? When you go to a foreign country, and defend the title against a foreign talent in a different wrestling company. Sometimes not even then, but that was the usual criteria for "World" championship. You defended it against anyone, even people who were not under your promotion's banner. Otherwise you are just the champion of your company, or at best, country. WWE won't do that; WWE has no need to do that. They already have global reach, and even NXT has global recognition. If they wanted to, they could just call it the NXT World Championship tomorrow and no one would bat an eye-lash. Well, I would, but I'm a grouch and WWE doesn't get a cent from me these days, so what do they care what I think?


Put a gun to my head? No, it is not a World title. It is a company championship of their developmental (ie. guys not yet good enough to be on the main roster) brand that just so happens to have global access, despite two Americans who happen to be not white (Joe and Crews are American born and bred, faggot; it's citizenship that matters, not skin-color. Shame on you, you racist :p) being the two biggest challengers for the white foreigner's title at the moment.


Really though, does it need to be a world title? It's already desirable enough, and frankly it shouldn't be made a bigger deal than it is now; it's a developmental title. Calling it the NxT World Championship would start raising questions of "Which belt is more prestigious" between it and the WWE World Heavyweight Title. Questions that by their very nature should be stupid; after all, one's the developmental title, the other's the main title. By introducing that word "world" into the equation, however, now it is subconsciously suggesting that the NxT "World" title holder is as good as the WWE World title holder, when from a kayfabe point of view, that doesn't make a lick of sense; why is Finn Balor in developmental, then, if he's just as good as Sheamus?


Hell, New Japan's IWGP Heavyweight Championship is technically not a 'World' title; not a single recognized title change ever took place outside of Japanese soil. Does anyone in their right mind not think the IWGP title is equivalent to the WWE title? (Okay, technically the "I" in IWGP stands for "International", which until we get that title defense on the Pacific Ocean is just as good as "World", but I still think my point stands, damnit!)

[Hero!]

\ (Joe and Crews are American born and bred, faggot; it's citizenship that matters, not skin-color. Shame on you, you racist :p

That would be why I said "of descent".

[DDT]

I was just giving you shit over it, but it really is a meaningless point in regards to a 'World' upgrade for the NXT title. It's two Americans who happen to be not white, fighting over a title primarily defended in the United States, and exclusively at WWE events. Your point would have been better served by saying the last four champions were all non-American (2 Canadians, an Englishman, and an Irishman)...which you did. So why bring it up?

[Nash Diesel]

DDT hit the nail on the head with the part about how it doesn't really need the "World" tag.

[Hero!]

I was just giving you shit over it, but it really is a meaningless point in regards to a 'World' upgrade for the NXT title. It's two Americans who happen to be not white, fighting over a title primarily defended in the United States, and exclusively at WWE events. Your point would have been better served by saying the last four champions were all non-American (2 Canadians, an Englishman, and an Irishman).

I did say that, you chump. I was pointing out this title has a very global feel to it as the champions have been people from other countries and the challengers are people with a different background than the stereotypical white bread WWE main eventer. Anyway, I also address the fact that guys like Crews and Joe come from other promotions to come to NXT to challenge for the title. A world title, imo, has always been a championship that people come from all over the world, from various countries and companies to challenge for.


DDT hit the nail on the head with the part about how it doesn't really need the "World" tag.

Nothing needs anything. It IS a developmental title, but developmental is no longer just a place to develop talent; it's becoming a place that people seek out after leaving TNA, Mexico, Japan, etc. to come compete against the best and fight for this belt.

[Nash Diesel]

I did say that, you chump. I was pointing out this title has a very global feel to it as the champions have been people from other countries and the challengers are people with a different background than the stereotypical white bread WWE main eventer. Anyway, I also address the fact that guys like Crews and Joe come from other promotions to come to NXT to challenge for the title. A world title, imo, has always been a championship that people come from all over the world, from various countries and companies to challenge for.



Nothing needs anything. It IS a developmental title, but developmental is no longer just a place to develop talent; it's becoming a place that people seek out after leaving TNA, Mexico, Japan, etc. to come compete against the best and fight for this belt.

But 9/10 times you always hear the same talents talking about hoping to possibly work on the main roster. Again, it's still developmental, no matter how you spin it. Maybe a veteran like Joe or Storm or Rhino or even Finn Balor are content with just being in NXT, but the idea for a guy like Finn is to be on the main roster. They didn't sign him so he could just chill in NXT, they didn't sign Itami so he could just chill in NXT, same with Kevin Owens. What NXT is, it's revolutionary with how they're upgrading what development is under the WWE umbrella because the business itself has upgraded, there's more expectations, there's more restrictions, and you need to be prepared for the bigger stage.

[DDT]

I did say that, you chump.

Hence why I edited my post, you nozzle!



I was pointing out this title has a very global feel to it as the champions have been people from other countries and the challengers are people with a different background than the stereotypical white bread WWE main eventer. Anyway, I also address the fact that guys like Crews and Joe come from other promotions to come to NXT to challenge for the title. A world title, imo, has always been a championship that people come from all over the world, from various countries and companies to challenge for.

Your criteria is as good as any; it's not like it is a hard and fast rule. Traditionally it has been the champion defending his belt against someone from a different promotion outside the title promotion's home country. Sometimes they would declare themselves a "World" title before then (ECW did so, but unless memory fails they have the title defenses in FMW to prove it), but they would usually follow the formula. It involves a LOT of cross-promotion shenanigans, which frankly WWE has no need to do.


Memphis Wrestling was one of the premier territories of its day, highly influential and saw a flux of some of the greatest talent in the world, yet they never declared their belt anything more important than the Southern Heavyweight title.




Nothing needs anything. It IS a developmental title, but developmental is no longer just a place to develop talent; it's becoming a place that people seek out after leaving TNA, Mexico, Japan, etc. to come compete against the best and fight for this belt.

No; it is a stop gap for people who are trying to get to WWE, in some capacity or another. NXT is not the goal for any of these people; it is a crucial step in getting TO the goal. They are leaving those companies to come to WWE, and they are being sent to NXT for the time being. That's the danger of calling it World title IMO; it starts giving a brand that has done nothing but bleed red financially an over-inflated sense of importance.

[The_Mike]

I think a good question to ask is what would you pay more to see - a WWE title match or an NXT title match? Right now, it's NXT, by a mile.

And for the original question, I think it is far and away a world championship at this point.

[Hero!]

No; it is a stop gap for people who are trying to get to WWE, in some capacity or another. NXT is not the goal for any of these people; it is a crucial step in getting TO the goal. They are leaving those companies to come to WWE, and they are being sent to NXT for the time being. That's the danger of calling it World title IMO; it starts giving a brand that has done nothing but bleed red financially an over-inflated sense of importance.

Not necessarily. There are several unsigned talents working NXT and the goal is to increase that number as they continue building the territory into a full-fledged touring brand. TNA, ROH, CMLL, and Non-NJPW talent should be getting recruited for the roster as time goes on. Many of them will likely not be added to the main roster, but this creates a good way to earn wage for these talents while WWE has it's own "indie" brand.

[DDT]

I think a good question to ask is what would you pay more to see - a WWE title match or an NXT title match? Right now, it's NXT, by a mile.

As would I. We, unfortunately, are a vast minority. Hardly world championship material. People are NOT beating down the doors to watch NXT and buy NXT merchandise, otherwise it would be reflected in that it was profitable. One huge arena sell-out piggie-backing off of Summerslam does not a brand make.






Not necessarily. There are several unsigned talents working NXT and the goal is to increase that number as they continue building the territory into a full-fledged touring brand. TNA, ROH, CMLL, and Non-NJPW talent should be getting recruited for the roster as time goes on. Many of them will likely not be added to the main roster, but this creates a good way to earn wage for these talents while WWE has it's own "indie" brand.



Yes necessarily. WWE's intent is a non-factor; the factor is the motivations of the talent who sign their name to a WWE contract. The only ones who's goal isn't to get onto the main roster and just seeing NXT as one of the hoops they have to jump threw are the ones who are trying to become trainers or coaches, and even those only because they suspect they are too old for WWE to show interest in. Can you honestly say there is a single NXT talent right now who's end-goal isn't to be on the main roster? As for this unsigned talent, what exactly have they been used for, aside as enhancement talent for the signed guys? It's a payday for them; one I suspect they are using to try and catch WWE's eyes at that, and you are trying to glorify NXT as this great goal of theirs they've always wanted.

[Atty]

I think a good question to ask is what would you pay more to see - a WWE title match or an NXT title match? Right now, it's NXT, by a mile.

The title match I'd have paid the most to see since Mania would have been Sasha vs. Bayley II.

Even then, going into Mania, I wasn't sold on Roman/Brock. The match turned out perfect, but the hype wasn't.

[PurePlayer]

Right now, I am way way way more hyped for Balor vs Joe than Sheamus vs Reigns. I think most people here are.

[Nash Diesel]

As would I. We, unfortunately, are a vast minority. Hardly world championship material. People are NOT beating down the doors to watch NXT and buy NXT merchandise, otherwise it would be reflected in that it was profitable. One huge arena sell-out piggie-backing off of Summerslam does not a brand make.









Yes necessarily. WWE's intent is a non-factor; the factor is the motivations of the talent who sign their name to a WWE contract. The only ones who's goal isn't to get onto the main roster and just seeing NXT as one of the hoops they have to jump through are the ones who are trying to become trainers or coaches, and even those only because they suspect they are too old for WWE to show interest in. Can you honestly say there is a single NXT talent right now who's end-goal isn't to be on the main roster? As for this unsigned talent, what exactly have they been used for, aside as enhancement talent for the signed guys? It's a payday for them; one I suspect they are using to try and catch WWE's eyes at that, and you are trying to glorify NXT as this great goal of theirs they've always wanted.

I have to agree with all of this.

[PurePlayer]

As would I. We, unfortunately, are a vast minority. Hardly world championship material. People are NOT beating down the doors to watch NXT and buy NXT merchandise, otherwise it would be reflected in that it was profitable. One huge arena sell-out piggie-backing off of Summerslam does not a brand make.


I think NXT can easily get out of the red if they decide to go on tv or do live events in slightly bigger arenas. They choose not to though because of the brand they are trying to create. That's how I see it. And you say people don't buy NXT merch? Did you see the amount of KO shirts that were selling before he even made the main roster? Balor shirts sell pretty well to considering the amount of people that watch NXT on the network.

[chatty]

I dont think so, not yet anyway. When WWE has a title thats higher than it it can't be?

As much as we all love NXT it is still WWE.

[Nash Diesel]

I think NXT can easily get out of the red if they decide to go on tv or do live events in slightly bigger arenas. They choose not to though because of the brand they are trying to create. That's how I see it. And you say people don't buy NXT merch? Did you see the amount of KO shirts that were selling before he even made the main roster? Balor shirts sell pretty well to considering the amount of people that watch NXT on the network.

I have to agree with this as well. Although I didn't take what DDT said about merch as nobody was buying it, I took it as him saying you're not seeing a bunch of different NXT t-shirts being sold left and right. You saw some Owens shirts, some Balor shirts, a few Bayley, Charlotte shirts on Instagram or in the crowds, and that's great, it helps get people who don't watch NXT familiar with these people even before they hit the main roster. You're sitting next to some little girl wearing a Bayley shirt, you don't have a clue, they tell you where to go to get a clue, and blam, possible NXT fan/Bayley fan, then when she gets called up you are somewhat familiar with her, expecting this and that.

Sadly, you get the call up, it's a fucking crap shoot as to how well you will be booked and if the WWE can maintain the interest you have in certain NXT talents.

[Anaconda Sniper]

Its getting up there I'd say its on the same level as the US and IC titles right now. Esp when Kevin Owens showed up and owned Cena.

[The_Mike]

As would I. We, unfortunately, are a vast minority. Hardly world championship material. People are NOT beating down the doors to watch NXT and buy NXT merchandise, otherwise it would be reflected in that it was profitable. One huge arena sell-out piggie-backing off of Summerslam does not a brand make.

I don't think it is at all the case that we are a vast minority, or that people are not beating down the doors to watch NXT. They clearly are. NXT tickets sell very fast, they just don't have nearly the same number of opportunities to sell themselves that the mainstream WWE does, so of course they aren't making a profit. Nobody asks them to, anyway.

Also, just because it's not as popular as something else doesn't really reflect quality or prestige. An Oscar-winner may not be seen by nearly as many people as a blockbuster. If we are talking about the wrestling industry and not the ticket selling industry, we can clearly see that every belt in NXT is more sought after, with better quality matches, and much more competent booking to keep its audience deeply invested. I keep forgetting who the WWE champion is.


The title match I'd have paid the most to see since Mania would have been Sasha vs. Bayley II.

Me too. NXT World Women's Championship it is.

[Badger]

I'm not bothered about the labelling, but it would be cool to see something like an NXT title Money in the Bank or something.

[Anaconda Sniper]

Its just crazy how well booked all the NXT guys and girls are. Everyone seems to be a threat to any title bar the real jobbers. Which theres only a handful. Hell look at people like Emma and Ryder back down in NXT they are pretty damn successful down there. If they were Raw..Ryder would be lucky jobbing in about 2 min and down in NXT hes teaming with one of the most over talents Bayley and winning a match..and Emma would be lucky to make the show the at all. But in NXT shes looked at as a pretty big threat and has a good feud going with Asuka.

Just baffling how well booked NXT is. Have them people in their creative team give tips to the raw team.

[Nash Diesel]

I don't know if I believe NXT championships are more sought after....Do you hear Dean Ambrose asking to go to NXT to face Balor? Do you hear the New Day calling out the Mechanics for a title unification? Do you hear Kurt Angle saying he wished he could go back and have 1 more match but have it be against Finn Balor? NXT is great, but I don't believe for one second that Finn Balor would rather be NXT champion than WWE World Heavyweight Champion. What I hear from people who say "I like what I'm doing in NXT" is really "I'm scared what might happen to me when I leave the small pond and have to be on the big stage with Vince calling the shot" lol. And it's kind of true, but usually those people who say that are guys like Finn, Neville, guys who are a little smaller, have an accent, probably see how Vince treats most guys like them-midcard at best where as NXT they're in a small pond put on a pedestal and they feed off the NXT crowd because they're educated and into it and it won't be like that up North.

[Freebird]

It's certainly a fair question based on what Hero! laid out. One could argue it is on the same level as the ROH title at one time when it was only defended in few places. Or even TNA. In fact I will go so far as to say that the NXT title has as much right to be considered a world title as the WWF title did at one time before the Hulkamania era. It was a regional title, no diff than the ones in Memphis, World Class, Mid-Atlantic and etc.

[Nash Diesel]

It's certainly a fair question based on what Hero! laid out. One could argue it is on the same level as the ROH title at one time when it was only defended in few places. Or even TNA. In fact I will go so far as to say that the NXT title has as much right to be considered a world title as the WWF title did at one time before the Hulkamania era. It was a regional title, no diff than the ones in Memphis, World Class, Mid-Atlantic and etc.

Except pre-Hulkamania the title was defended outside of the US quite a few times, including Antonio Inoki getting a run with the belt that the WWE I don't think even officially recognizes. I think the major issue is again, it's developmental. Once it becomes it's own actual brand and a new developmental system takes it place, then you could make a valid argument but also there's no need. This is the result of the brand split I think, people that got used to having 2 "world" titles.

[The Rogerer]

Archaic nonsense, like a 'TV' title.

[Beer-Belly]

TV titles are great. Raw would benefit from having a title that has to be defended every week.

[Nash Diesel]

TV titles are great. Raw would benefit from having a title that has to be defended every week.

Yep, and they did, when Cena was US champ so they could ensure Cena would have something to do each week outside of the World title picture. But as it is for every other US champ in WWE history, the belt is now a forgotten piece of jewelry. God forbid ADR could keep the open challenge going. Even when Rollins had the belt he never defended it one time.

[Beer-Belly]

Yeah, they could call it the "MexAmerica Open Challenge" and it would actually makes sense because ADR and Zeb want to prove MexAmerica's dominance. It'd actually give that dumb fucking storyline a reason to exist. Missed opportunity.

[Glen]

Wouldn't it be great if it were defended on a high profile independent show against a high level non-WWE guy...

That would really be great eh...

[Hero!]

Tell me more

[Nash Diesel]

The only reason we'd probably never see that, at least in the near future, is because Vince wouldn't want a smaller company getting that kind of rub. Imagine the publicity that would come from say Finn Balor defending his NXT championship against Jay Briscoe at a Ring of Honor show?

[PurePlayer]

The only reason we'd probably never see that, at least in the near future, is because Vince wouldn't want a smaller company getting that kind of rub. Imagine the publicity that would come from say Finn Balor defending his NXT championship against Jay Briscoe at a Ring of Honor show?

But then the WWE can make some type of deal to get their guys on NXT shows as well. This type of stuff has been done before.

[Nash Diesel]

But then the WWE can make some type of deal to get their guys on NXT shows as well. This type of stuff has been done before.

Aside from the whole Taz-Mike Awesome situation I can't think of a single time when the WWE had one of their titles defended on a high profile indy show. Or in another promotion period. Care to share the time the WWE did something that was what Glen suggested that I'm missing? USWA, ECW do not count as they were working together but even then I'm not sure I recall a time where the IC champ or World champ went to USWA and defended the title.

[Hero!]

Back in the memphis days, vince would often let his guys defend their titles there. Bret also defended his WWF title against Funk in his "retirement" match in beyond the mat.

For vince to do anything like that now, it would have to be a promotion that they're actively working with like EVOLVE and even that has almost zero percent chance of happening.

I know Del Rio just did a WWC show this past weekend, but im not sure if he defended the US title or not.

[Nash Diesel]

Back in the memphis days, vince would often let his guys defend their titles there. Bret also defended his WWF title against Funk in his "retirement" match in beyond the mat.

For vince to do anything like that now, it would have to be a promotion that they're actively working with like EVOLVE and even that has almost zero percent chance of happening.

I know Del Rio just did a WWC show this past weekend, but im not sure if he defended the US title or not.

Wasn't that Funk retirement show essentially a WWF show though? He was working for the WWF, the show was littered with WWF talent top to bottom. It was like a glorified house show.

But yeah, today I'd be blown away if we saw anything like Glen mentioned happening. Vince isn't in the business to get everyone else over, he barely wants his own talent to get over and make a shit ton of money for him.

[Hero!]

Unless Glen knows something we don't know about WWE's upcoming UK tour...

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Ospreay Vs Balor for both NXT/Progress titles goes to a no context when Jimmy Havoc murders them both.

[MikeHunt]

Grado comes in and dances.

Fin

5 FUCKING STARS

[Hero!]

Wee boot to Balor and Ospreay, unified world title.

[MikeHunt]

throws nxt title in the TRASH!!!

[Glen]

The way that the WWE do business is changing. Would you have dreamt of a UK or US indy having their footage on WWE programming 5 years ago? Let alone New Japan?

Triple H is a very clever man, and a very good businessman. The door is more open than it's ever been.

[chatty]

Aside from the whole Taz-Mike Awesome situation I can't think of a single time when the WWE had one of their titles defended on a high profile indy show. Or in another promotion period. Care to share the time the WWE did something that was what Glen suggested that I'm missing? USWA, ECW do not count as they were working together but even then I'm not sure I recall a time where the IC champ or World champ went to USWA and defended the title.

That wasn't even with a WWE title. It was basically Taz, a WWF employee beating Mike Awesome, a WCW employee for the ECW title. It benefitted WWE to have one of their stars beat a WCW guy and then pass the belt back over and do a favour for ECW who they always worked with and helped out. Why WCW agreed to it, I have no idea.

[The_Mike]

That wasn't even with a WWE title. It was basically Taz, a WWF employee beating Mike Awesome, a WCW employee for the ECW title. It benefitted WWE to have one of their stars beat a WCW guy and then pass the belt back over and do a favour for ECW who they always worked with and helped out. Why WCW agreed to it, I have no idea.

I was under the impression Awesome's WCW contract had not yet started so they couldn't really stop him from doing that last ECW show. ECW and WWF just figured out a high profile way to job him and get the belt to stay in ECW.

[Nash Diesel]

That wasn't even with a WWE title. It was basically Taz, a WWF employee beating Mike Awesome, a WCW employee for the ECW title. It benefitted WWE to have one of their stars beat a WCW guy and then pass the belt back over and do a favour for ECW who they always worked with and helped out. Why WCW agreed to it, I have no idea.

Duh on my part lol.


I was under the impression Awesome's WCW contract had not yet started so they couldn't really stop him from doing that last ECW show. ECW and WWF just figured out a high profile way to job him and get the belt to stay in ECW.

I think it was a legal situation, where Paul E threatened them with another lawsuit (he had many against WCW including a dispute over the Raven character) if WCW put Awesome on t.v. with the ECW belt so they all worked out a deal to get Awesome to do the job to Taz. What a weird situation that was at the time.