Champions League Thread

[Ringo]

Draw now.

Schmeichel and this lady are a bit awkward.

[kirby123]

Odds to come.

[Ringo]

Thanks kirby.

United getting the easiest teams and Arsenal draw Olympiakos. Repeat?

[Pablo Diablo]

Travel to Moscow can fuck up the adjacent matches for United though.

[Andy]

Bayern and Olympiakos again. Boring. Probably get that team that's basically in China next too.

[Andy]

Tough for City again. United have it pretty much as easy as it could have been as always.

[RuneEdge]

Wolfsburg should be a little easier if City wrap up the De Bruyne deal.

Overall I'm really happy with the draw. It could've been a even easier but its just tough enough for us to not get complacent, which probably makes it the best kind of draw we could get. :yes:

[MikeHunt]

Bayern and Olympiakos again. Boring. Probably get that team that's basically in China next too.

oh my god! moaning about playing bayern, fucking arsenal fans.

[Andy]

Something different would've been nice.

[MikeHunt]

i get you but fucking hell its hardly boring playing one of the best teams in the world.

[Andy]

Oh I'm sure the game will be entertaining it was just a dull draw. Would've liked PSG, Sevilla and Bruges.

[RuneEdge]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CNbodY_WUAAouvD.jpg
Apparently this is the team we used when we beat Wolfsburg the last time we played. Mental.

[MikeHunt]

Oh I'm sure the game will be entertaining it was just a dull draw. Would've liked PSG, Sevilla and Bruges.

try playing fucking peterhead 4 times a year and then you can moan.

[Simon]

How are Oduwa and Ball doing for you Mike? I heard Oduwa's been acting the cunt taking the piss out of opposition defenders?

[MikeHunt]

oh wait...

[MikeHunt]

How are Oduwa and Ball doing for you Mike? I heard Oduwa's been acting the cunt taking the piss out of opposition defenders?

they've both been great tbh.

oduwa has some great showboating stuff and ball look solid. however, you have to remember who they are playing against.

[Simon]

Yeah I was surprised they went to Rangers given how highly-rated they were - lesser-rated youngsters from Spurs have gone to the Championship and League One. I suppose it gets them used to playing in front of big crowds :dunno: I think the club trusts Warburton to look after our kids, we loaned them plenty when he was at Brentford

[MikeHunt]

i already adore Warburton. i hope hes at rangers forever

[Andy]

try playing fucking peterhead 4 times a year and then you can moan.

I went to Stranraer three times last year.

[MikeHunt]

you are kidding no one.

[Romford Pele]

Bayern will be tough but rest of the group not. Should get 2nd and out in first knock out round as per usual.

[Gary J]

Bayern and Olympiakos again. Boring. Probably get that team that's basically in China next too.

What do you expect its the same fucking teams qualifying every fucking year.

The whole champions league itself is boring repetitive shit until the quarter-finals as due to the seeding system we get pretty much the same groups season after season then with the way the draw for the first knockout stage is done with the team that topped a group having to face a team that finished 2nd that's not part of their domestic league means we are more then likely to get repetitive knockout round games. At least once we get to the quarters it's a free for all draw and we might get fresh match ups.

[RuneEdge]

Well, you guys are in Pot 2. The only way to get into Pot 1 is to win your domestic title or win the Champions League itself.
There's not much more you can do to change things.

[Torn]

I think the club trusts Warburton to look after our kids, we loaned them plenty when he was at Brentford

Plenty?? Pritchard obviously but the only other loanee for Spurs in years has been Fredericks who made one start when Rosler was our manager (Warburton director of football).

[Simon]

Plenty?? Pritchard obviously but the only other loanee for Spurs in years has been Fredericks who made one start when Rosler was our manager (Warburton director of football).

Hmm maybe it was when he was at Watford then. Either that or just talking shit. We seem to loan players to managers rather than teams - when Redknapp was in charge we loaned a lot of players to whoever Sean O'Driscoll was managing, if Redknapp comes back into the game I'd imagine that relationship will be turned on it's head with his side loaning players from Liverpool, where O'Driscoll is now assistant.

[RuneEdge]

Luke Shaw's broken his leg. :(

[The Beer Monster]

I reckon he can walk that off.

[Pablo Diablo]

And the guy who broke it goes and scores later as well. Even though it wasn't an intentional type of thing still an insult to a horrific injury situation.

[Andy]

Horrible. Hopefully he makes it back before too long.

[Bad Collin]

Loved seeing United lose, hated seeing Shaw's injury. I hope he's back in time for the Euros.

[Canuck]

When are Euros?

[Andy]

June, can't see him being back by then.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Yet again showing why it's besides the point if you "get the ball" with a dangerous tackle. Just don't make tackles like that. It should have been a penalty and a red card with a suspension. The message needs to get through to everyone that coming off both feet for tackles is banned.

[Beefy]

Exactly. I saw someone get sent off for an elbow in, I think, the Oxford match on TV a couple of weeks ago and you had Ian Holloway at half time banging on about how he hadn't got any intent to hurt the guy.

Regardless of intent, regardless of what happens to the ball, there are certain types of challenges which need to be harshly penalised so as to condition players not to do them so that the one time in 100 when someone snaps their leg in two or has their cheekbone caved in doesn't happen.

[The Rosk]

What did the lad who knocked Timlin's face off get?

[Beefy]

Nothing. Although that was Timlin's fault as much as anything. Neither player had their eyes on anything other than the ball there.

[Canuck]

June, can't see him being back by then.

What exactly did he break? 9 months away could be plenty of time depending on the extent.

[Simon]

Leg breaks can be anything up to a year or 18 months depending on severity, I think clean breaks (which it looked like Shaw's was?) tend to be easier to deal with. England are pretty well stocked for left backs with Baines, Gibbs, Cresswell and Rose all probably good enough for that level and Gomez and Galloway developing quickly as well, so I don't think Hodgson would want Shaw unless he was absolutely sure he was not only fit but back to his best.

[MichaelC]

Arsenal's opponents had last won a group stage match in 1999, sixteen matches ago for them.

[Andy]

We're never going to win it, might as well go out early to concentrate on getting back in next year.

[Hlebsfall]

So Wenger couldn't find a better striker on the market that Giroud over the summer.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Shaw could be back playing in February if he recovers with no complications. He may not be any good, however.

[Canuck]

Stamkos had a similar injury just before the Olympics. He was back in about 5 months.

[Chris]

If Wenger thought that the Olympiakos game was a must-win, why did he not have Cech in the team?

The Bayern game should have an interesting score.

[Chris Scott]

I thought Czech was injured obviously not then.

[Simon]

There's a decent chance now that Arsenal will be out before they've even got a point :eek:

[Hlebsfall]

Same old shit. Summed up nicely by that 3rd which was basically a carbon copy of the Monaco 3rd from last season. No point in even getting worked up by it any more, Wenger is only going to leave on his own terms regardless of how mediocre Arsenal have become.

[Andy]

Such an odd situation. The players are good enough but there is just zero inning mentality in that team.

Wenger has spending power now but has chosen not to use if. I don't think there's any excuses left for making zero progress in so many years.

[Romford Pele]

It just isn't acceptable. The 3rd goal in particular was a farce. I do think we need a mangerial change at the end of the season as we will never challenge for the title or the CL under Wenger again.

Cue PG, Mik and Rosk saying you don't know how good you have it etc

[RFF Champ]

Isn't it okay to lose Category C games using your logic?

[Romford Pele]

Last night was a B game.

[Ozanne]

So what was Wenger's reason for leaving Cech out? I'm guessing he had faith in his sub keeper, as to be fair Ospina is fairly decent?

[Romford Pele]

He hinted at an injury problem, but if that is the case why was he on the bench?

Laughable bullshit.

[Ozanne]

Maybe he's just making the most of the squad he has at his disposal?
Still you would surely play your best keeper in the Champs League though.

[The Rosk]

He hinted at an injury problem, but if that is the case why was he on the bench?

Laughable bullshit.

In case he was needed desperately for 20 minutes? You've got a pretty big game at the weekend...

I think Wenger is great. Sometimes you need the fans to get behind a club too - hence why clubs don't play in empty stadiums - and Arsenal fans have been on his case for five years. I'm really impressed that in spite all of that silence, the silence, the silence and occasional booing, he has led the club to a brand new stadium, loads of trophies and financial glory in his time there.

[Simon]

Well...two (relatively minor) trophies in the past decade, the stadium wasn't his achievement and the financial glory has probably come at the expense of success. I can see where Arsenal fans are coming from, that sort of stasis must be infuriating even if it is at a high level.

[Romford Pele]

I would argue that this game was bigger and it has probably meant we wont get out of the group stage this season with Bayern Munich (x2) tocome.

Loads of trophies? Two fa cups in a decade is loads of trophies?

I would say Chelsea or United could say that but not us. People understood that he was hamstrung when we moved to the new stadium and credit to him for keeping us competitive in that time but 2-3 years ago the shackles came off financially but he has not addressed two key areas that could enable the club to challenge for top honours (top striker and holding midfielder).

£200m in the bank is great if you are a shareholder like Silent Stan but the vast majority of fans are not and are wondering what he is waiting for when we are the only top 5 side in Europe not to have bought an outfield player this summer.

Lets not even get into his laughable lack of tactics or organising a defence.

[Romford Pele]

Maybe he's just making the most of the squad he has at his disposal?
Still you would surely play your best keeper in the Champs League though.

You answered your own question.

[The Rosk]

Remember when FA Cup wins used to be magical and the fans remembered the glorious moments of big winners like Ricky Villa's run, Brooking's only ever header, Cantona's half-volley... all those fans went crazy for those moments. Fans often love the beauty and majesty of the FA Cup. I wonder what the big, bold difference is here then. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[Peter Griffin]

As a Derby fan I can only dream of being pissed off at losing a champions league game.

[The Rosk]

I don't know how many more players you need in an attacking lineup when you've got Sanchez (£35m, 1 in 2 record), Giroud (£10m and a 1 in 2 record), Walcott (13 in 14), Ozil (£42m), Cazorla (£16m), Welbeck (£16m), Wilshere/Ramsey/Oxlade-Chamberlain/Arteta.... hmmm.

[MMH]

Remember when FA Cup wins used to be magical and the fans remembered the glorious moments of big winners like Ricky Villa's run, Brooking's only ever header, Cantona's half-volley... all those fans went crazy for those moments. Fans often love the beauty and majesty of the FA Cup. I wonder what the big, bold difference is here then. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Yup, everyone my age remembers journeyman striker Keith Houchen for his boss diving header in the 1987 final. Without that goal he would probably be unknown. Nowadays I couldnt even tell you who scored in last years final. In fact im not even 100% sure who won it. Arsenal was it?

[Romford Pele]

Remember when FA Cup wins used to be magical and the fans remembered the glorious moments of big winners like Ricky Villa's run, Brooking's only ever header, Cantona's half-volley... all those fans went crazy for those moments. Fans often love the beauty and majesty of the FA Cup. I wonder what the big, bold difference is here then. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Yeah the FA Cup is great and all that, and I enjoyed the wins immensely but the shame of it is we are so close to being at the next level but with Wenger in charge it simply wont happen.

He reminds me of Clough in his final Forest years - great at the start but it tailed off.

[Romford Pele]

I don't know how many more players you need in an attacking lineup when you've got Sanchez (£35m, 1 in 2 record), Giroud (£10m and a 1 in 2 record), Walcott (13 in 14), Ozil (£42m), Cazorla (£16m), Welbeck (£16m), Wilshere/Ramsey/Oxlade-Chamberlain/Arteta.... hmmm.

Not one of those is a world class number 9. Aguero. Suarez. Benzema. That is the standard.

[The Rosk]

Only Benzema is a No.9 of those that you mention?

Also - which "world class No.9" would you feasibly have been able to get? It's not like they're all in a shop window waiting for someone to come along on a Saturday afternoon to buy them.

[The Rosk]

Yeah the FA Cup is great and all that, and I enjoyed the wins immensely but the shame of it is we are so close to being at the next level but with Wenger in charge it simply wont happen.

He reminds me of Clough in his final Forest years - great at the start but it tailed off.

And what happened to Forest after Clough left?

[Romford Pele]

They were relegated WHILST he was there.

I disagree both Suarez and Aguero can play there, there arent many that level about but we can do better than what we have.

[Simon]

Arsenal could probably get better than Giroud and Walcott but they're being unrealistic always going on about fucking Benzema. There are plenty of highly-rated strikers around that they could sign to improve the side - for example Aubameyang has been highly-rated for years, seems to be hitting the form of his career at the moment and would be within their target range.

I don't understand what you mean about Suarez and Aguero not being able to play there. They've both had 30+ goal seasons as out-and-out strikers.

[The Rosk]

They were relegated WHILST he was there.

I disagree both Suarez and Aguero can play there, there aren't many that level about but we can do better than what we have.

1) You haven't answered my point. Be careful what you wish for.

2) I repeat: Which "world class No.9" was available that would go to you?

[Peter Griffin]

Instead of potty this year lets just have a vote on which clubs fans are the biggest cunts, Liverpool or Arsenal.

[RuneEdge]

Make it a twitter poll.

[Murphy]

City game is cracking. Could easily be about 3-3. Hart having a blinder, so far. Amazing how atrocious city are at the back without Kompany.

Also, Sterling really, really needs to improve his final ball.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

How many more atrocious performances does Wayne Rooney have to put in before it goes from being bad form to being a bad player? Can't be far off.

[Andy]

The BT Goals Show is class, can't believe it's not been done before.

[Romford Pele]

I hate BT

[Andy]

Hector Bellerin is a phenomenal player. Best right back in the world right now? Had a good game against Costa who is also phenomenal and did a great job on the wing attacking.

Great win. Only negative thing I have to say is it makes us favourites for third now.

[Chris]

Big win for Arsenal tonight. Giroud seems to have a point to prove every time he comes off the bench these days.

[Andy]

Mourinho is so obsessed with Wenger these days. "The referee was weak and naive" was the first line from his interview. Just like the Falcao one, didn't look like a pen at all.

[Simon]

Hector Bellerin is a phenomenal player. Best right back in the world right now?
Chill out. He's probably fourth best in the Premier League behind Coleman, Darmian and Clyne. Even that is assuming Ivanovic and Zabaleta are finished. Azpilicueta is a better right back too even though he never plays there any more. Bellerin could be one of the best in the world one day but right now he is mlies off.

[Beefy]

He's better than Coleman

[Torn]

I like him but I wouldn't put Darmian up there just yet? He was subbed at half time against Southampton because Tadic was giving him the run around and got absolutely torn apart by Sanchez and subbed again a few weeks ago. Still finding his feet.

[Andy]

Right now I said. Clyne and Darmian have been solid but unspectacular at best. Ivanovic is probably the worst in the world right now and Coleman and Zabaleta have been injured for most of the season.

[Gary J]

Bellerin the best RB in the world? Laughable claim. He's not even the best in the Premier League.

I'd say Piszczek was the best at the moment as I've been impressed whenever I've seen him which admittedly isn't that much. Cases could be made for Danilo , Carvajal , JuanFran , Lichsteiner.

[Andy]

Cases could be made sure but I'm asking if there's anyone better right now? Bellerin is in great form. On a related note Carvajal has been bang average whenever I've seen him.

[Gary J]

He's played 40 games for Arsenal bit early to be calling him in the best in the world I mean Harry Kane was in great form for 40 games last season shall we say he was the best striker in the world last season. Jamie Vardy is currently in great form is he as good as Lewandowski?

It's a laughable claim he's a good player but to say there's nobody better after a good game against Douglas Costa is stupid.

[Simon]

Cases could be made sure but I'm asking if there's anyone better right now? Bellerin is in great form. On a related note Carvajal has been bang average whenever I've seen him.

Well how long-term are you talking? Based on last night alone, yes he's probably the best right back in the world because Costa is one of the most in-form players in Europe and he kept him relatively quiet, aside from the first twenty minutes or so when he had his arsehole ripped out. Any longer-term than that and no, he isn't the best right back around. Obviously.

[BBF]

I thought Bellerin got spun a couple of times last night when he really shouldn't have done and he was caught out a couple of times at Watford on Saturday by both Ake and Abdi. He did quite well in both games but he's by no means the best right back in the world even based on form right now.

[Beefy]

Being best right back isn't always a great title anyway. No one plays right back unless they're not good enough to play in any other position.

[Simon]

I would personally say from what I've seen that Bellerin probably isn't even playing as well as he did at points last season. I might be wrong about that as I've not seen every Arsenal game, and he's certainly still playing well, but I've noticed him being skinned more often than last year when he looked a real revelation.

[Andy]

Fuck ooooofffff he's the best ever in the world ok.

[Andy]

But seriously I've not seen anyone playing as well as him in the last couple of months. There's some mad stat about him creating more clear chances than anyone else in Europe.

[Peter Griffin]

Being best right back isn't always a great title anyway. No one players right back unless they're not good enough to play in any other position.
Dunno about all that, Cyrus Christie is a decent rb for us, but given his pace and willingness to go forward and take defenders on i certainly think he could play out wide further up the pitch

[BBF]

That's Payet.

[BBF]

Nah right back is definitely the loser position. Even left back is better.

[Gary J]

Being best right back isn't always a great title anyway. No one players right back unless they're not good enough to play in any other position.

Phillip Lahm being a notable exception.

[Romford Pele]

Great performance and result last night. Shame about Ramsey though.

On Bellerin, he has been consistently excellent since he came through last season (you dont keep out France first choice RB unless you are a bit special), but needs to do for a full season before he can be considered world class. Same applies with Coquelin.

[wardy]

I know what Beefy's talking about, they'd all probably rather play right or centre mid. This certainly a thing at Sunday league level anyway.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I don't think it has been true at professional level for a long time. The likes of Cafu, Lahm and Dani Alves have been able to run games from right-back. Full-backs can be the most important players in some systems because it's difficult to stop their runs from deep if they are timed well. David Beckham wouldn't been as good a player without Gary Neville there to make space for his crosses.

[MMH]

Our full backs have been our most important players for years. Depends on how your team sets up.

[Andy]

Ronaldo has scored two of his last 89 free kicks :lol:

[Andy]

Another shout out for the BT Goals Show. It's their version of soccer Saturday but showing highlights continuously and goals as they come in. The panel is European football experts instead of ex players and hosted by James Richardson. Great stuff.

[Simon]

MY PAL James Richardson.

City are going to be charged by UEFA for their fans' horrendous crime of...booing the Champions League anthem

:lol:

[Romford Pele]

That must be bullshit.

[Romford Pele]

Ahahaha its true wtf

Booing champions league anthem is obviously worse than racist abuse.

[Darkoke]

There's precedent for it I think - sure it's happened to another team before.

[Ringo]

The CL anthem is a great tune. Serves them right.

[Andy]

City/Sevilla is like a game of Pro Evo 2008 on ultra offensive, great stuff.

City have been good going forward but Sevilla have been pretty bad. City have been crap defensively though andsshould've given away a pen at the end of the half there.

[Chris]

So how many will Bayern get by the end of this game? Five? Six?

[Simon]

I imagine they'll probably fuck it off second half, wouldn't be surprised if it finished 3-0 or 3-1. Having said that Coman and Thiago are taking the absolute piss so who knows, if they fancy it then it could well be six.

[Andy]

It's so weird that we can't deal with possession teams at all. Obviously the likes of Barca/Bayern dominate everyone but we always seem to struggle even more. Dunno, maybe that's just perception and not watching that many other games in full but we're just so far behind it's sad.

[Andy]

Omer Toprak with the best example of "denying a goal scoring opportunity" I've ever seen in the Leverkusen game.

[Romford Pele]

Good win over pretty limited opposition last night.

We really cannoy afford to lose Ozil or Sanchez they are really carrying the team going forward. We need to win 2-0 in Olympiakos to progress, therefore it will be 1-0, we specialise in glorious failure.

[Simon]

I wouldn't be surprised if you make it through, you're quite good at getting yourself out of these kind of jams and Olympiakos aren't great.

Barcelona are just ridiculous. Messi's first goal last night was cheating.

[Romford Pele]

I'll be amazed if they dont retain this year. Only Bayern Munich look capable of stopping them.

[Andy]

Olympiakos have beaten a lot of strong opposition at home in the last couple of years, won't be easy. Here's hoping for a Bayern/Barca final.

[Pablo Diablo]

Awful United team. Was never a Champions League winning side, but not being able to get out of that group? Ugly.

[thetony]

Depay leaving PSV for a more secured CL position only to get knocked out by them. Delicious.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

How did Depay cost double the price of Wijnaldum?

[Chris Scott]

Depay leaving PSV for a more secured CL position only to get knocked out by them. Delicious.

:lol:

[Romford Pele]

Well well well, we actually turned up and dare I say put in a professional performance last night.

Giroud was excellent obviously, but Joel Campbell has really stepped up. Beautiful ball for the 2nd goal and his workrate was great - Wenger made a good move swapping him and Walcott around

I expect us to get tonked on round 2 by Barca or Real, but for now an enjoyable evening.

[The Rosk]

You lot don't deserve Wenger.

[Romford Pele]

Yes of course, he should never be criticised.

[RFF Champ]

You lot don't deserve Wenger.

One post through gritted teeth. Imagine the yapping if they'd got the elimination they craved.

[Romford Pele]

Did I not say we played very well and professionally?

One result though does not fix some of the fundamental problems (injuries, overeliance on a handful of players, not investing in key positions)

Wenger has done a fantastic job and I will always be grateful for that, but the cold hard truth is that we will not win the league or the champions league under him again (hell when was the last time we really challenged for either?!)

I don't see that as an unreasonable target for fans given the size of the club, the ticket prices (please lets not get into that again) and the kind of money that we can/do occasionally invest in top level players like Sanchex, Ozil and Cech.

Everyone knew and accepted that there would be some fallow years with having to pay for the new stadium, but we came out of the other side of that a few years ago now.

The board sadly are completely toothless and as long as Stan Kroenke keeps getting his money they will not rock the boat. The best thing that can happen for all concerned is that Wenger leaves in 2017 at the end of his contract.

There seems to be a train of thought that the guy is beyond criticism because of what he has done in the past. I think most fans respect and admire him for what he has done, but that doesnt mean that fundamental issues with club/team should not be pointed out.

[MMH]

There is no reason at all why you cant win the league this season.

[Slare]

Whats the point in getting through to the next 16 were just gonna get fucking shafted anyway and we're not going to win the world cup so all Wenger is doing is giving us a fixture congestion senile old prick WENGER OUT

[RFF Champ]

Did I not say we played very well and professionally?

One result though does not fix some of the fundamental problems (injuries, overeliance on a handful of players, not investing in key positions)

Wenger has done a fantastic job and I will always be grateful for that, but the cold hard truth is that we will not win the league or the champions league under him again (hell when was the last time we really challenged for either?!)

I don't see that as an unreasonable target for fans given the size of the club, the ticket prices (please lets not get into that again) and the kind of money that we can/do occasionally invest in top level players like Sanchex, Ozil and Cech.

Everyone knew and accepted that there would be some fallow years with having to pay for the new stadium, but we came out of the other side of that a few years ago now.

The board sadly are completely toothless and as long as Stan Kroenke keeps getting his money they will not rock the boat. The best thing that can happen for all concerned is that Wenger leaves in 2017 at the end of his contract.

There seems to be a train of thought that the guy is beyond criticism because of what he has done in the past. I think most fans respect and admire him for what he has done, but that doesnt mean that fundamental issues with club/team should not be pointed out.

The train of thought relates to a complete lack of self awareness.

[Romford Pele]

Whats the point in getting through to the next 16 were just gonna get fucking shafted anyway and we're not going to win the world cup so all Wenger is doing is giving us a fixture congestion senile old prick WENGER OUT

It sounds churlish, but is it really good enough that we go out at that stage every season? I would argue that it is not when you consider factors like the wage bill.

No quarter final since 2010
No semi final since 2009
One final appearance in 2006

MMH - can you honestly say, hand on heart that we will still be in contention around April/May time?

[Romford Pele]

The train of thought relates to a complete lack of self awareness.

Explain.

[RFF Champ]

Explain.

"It sounds churlish, but is it really good enough that we go out at that stage every season?

No quarter final since 2010
No semi final since 2009
One final appearance in 2006"

[Romford Pele]

So what should the expectations of Arsenal fans be then? Mid-table? Avoiding relegation?

I'm trying to work out when it is ok to criticise.

[The Rosk]

I really wish all Arsenal fans would just fuck off.

[son_of_foley]

The simple matter is you all seem to find absolutely NO JOY whatsoever in following arsenal. It's like a fucking business transaction. If I pay 70 pounds for a ticket the team should win the league. Great. Will you even be fucking happy if you do? It's so clinical and cold and annoying

[RFF Champ]

So what should the expectations of Arsenal fans be then? Mid-table? Avoiding relegation?

I'm trying to work out when it is ok to criticise.

Yeah criticise, but don't get SO disdainful at the fact you've made one Champions League final out of the last 9.

[Beefy]

If they did win it would be because everyone else was shit.

I don't know what it is about that Club - my mates on Facebook who are Arsenal fans are all the same. Maybe the rest of us just notice it more because we'd swap for their position in a single second.

[Simon]

I've said this before but I understand the boredom and disillusionment with the club's stasis. That is slightly less understandable now because they've won a couple of trophies (the biggest one they can realistically expect to win) but saying you'd swap places with them in a second doesn't stack up as an argument against their complaints really - does that mean you're not allowed to complain about Southend because you're so much higher on the ladder than Tower Hamlets or any other two-bob side from the semi-pros?

Being an Arsenal fan must be immensely frustrating as a fan, because they end up in the same position every year despite promising so much more. Being a Tottenham fan is exciting because we're never too far from reaching the 'promised land' of the Champions League and never too far from disappearing back into the upper mid-table. Being a Villa fan or a Sunderland fan is horrible at the moment, but it is at least exciting if not for the right reasons. Whereas with Arsenal, it's impossible to get too excited when you're top of the league or too furious when you're down in sixth, because you know from experience you'll end up finishing third or fourth. On top of that you have a manager who is both intransigent and unsackable, making it seem endless. Every Arsenal season is essentially the same - even if that season is well above average, it can still get dull.

The other side of that is that, in all probability, when Wenger goes the club will go downhill. But I can see how the idea of risking that for the opportunity to get a manager who MIGHT make the club a legit Premier League and Champions League contender would be alluring.

I'd be interested to see a study to see which fans tend to be happiest out of clubs who bounce between the Prem and the Championship and sides who are always around mid-table in the Prem, neither in threat of relegation nor hopeful of hitting the European spots. I bet the latter get more out of it and enjoy it more.

[Beefy]

They're extremely successful every single season. That is why we'd swap with them in a second. I wouldn't swap with The Rosk for Villa's status.

Supporting a team who consistently finish towards the top end of the table, compete in Europe, challenge for trophies, win trophies, who play great attacking football with some of the best footballers in the World in their team is a situation that most people would see as being a good thing.

[Simon]

I do get where you're coming from - but if you're finishing in the same position every year and it doesn't garner any real rewards (I'm talking about actually competing properly for the Premier League or the Champions League, the point is slightly dulled by their FA Cup wins but it is also fair to say that is very much a secondary competition now) then is that real success? For Tottenham, qualifying for the Champions League would be a triumph in itself, a huge success to be excited about. Arsenal have been in it every year for God knows how long and are now essentially a 'mid-table' CL side, never crashing out early but never threatening to reach the latter stages. Qualifying for the CL (and getting out of the group) is success by most standards, but if you do it every year then, like anything else, it becomes less special - and without ever threatening to do any better than qualify, there is nothing to get excited about.

Really that is what this comes down to - excitement, rather than trophies. And that's why I think the end of your post there is the more important part; the footballers they have there and the football the play is a reason for them not to complain, rather than their admitted - but static - success. As a Tottenham fan I have been more excited by the performances of players like Bale, Van Der Vaart, Berbatov and Modric in recent years than the consistent qualification for the Europa League which is, by most people's standards, a clear success. Arsenal should be happy to get to watch players like Sanchez, Ozil and Cazorla and enjoy the football they play - I don't think Romford, Andy and Hlebsfall acknowledge this as much as they could - but the boredom with their consistently good-but-not-great achievements is completely fair enough IMO.

[son_of_foley]

I do get where you're coming from - but if you're finishing in the same position every year and it doesn't garner any real rewards (I'm talking about actually competing properly for the Premier League or the Champions League, the point is slightly dulled by their FA Cup wins but it is also fair to say that is very much a secondary competition now) then is that real success? For Tottenham, qualifying for the Champions League would be a triumph in itself, a huge success to be excited about. Arsenal have been in it every year for God knows how long and are now essentially a 'mid-table' CL side, never crashing out early but never threatening to reach the latter stages. Qualifying for the CL (and getting out of the group) is success by most standards, but if you do it every year then, like anything else, it becomes less special - and without ever threatening to do any better than qualify, there is nothing to get excited about.

Really that is what this comes down to - excitement, rather than trophies. And that's why I think the end of your post there is the more important part; the footballers they have there and the football the play is a reason for them not to complain, rather than their admitted - but static - success. As a Tottenham fan I have been more excited by the performances of players like Bale, Van Der Vaart, Berbatov and Modric in recent years than the consistent qualification for the Europa League which is, by most people's standards, a clear success. Arsenal should be happy to get to watch players like Sanchez, Ozil and Cazorla and enjoy the football they play - I don't think Romford, Andy and Hlebsfall acknowledge this as much as they could - but the boredom with their consistently good-but-not-great achievements is completely fair enough IMO.

so if you think its fair enough when will you get bored of spurs finishing around 5th?

[Andy]

Some of the people on this form (and others) have such a weird attitude towards Arsenal. Just to be clear, I love Arsenal. I love watching us most the time, I love going to the games, I love chatting to other fans etc. Games like the one against Olympiakos and Bayern are joyful. I understand that Arsenal are a huge club and are lucky enough to be financially secure and playing some of the top teams in the world every season, as well as signing some of the best players. That's great. Would I swap that to be a Southend fan or a Derby fan? No.

There just seems to be this odd perception that all criticism is entirely unjustified and this just baffles me. Just to throw a couple of examples out there. Is the fact that we were the only team in the top European leagues not to sign an outfield player not worthy of discussion and, dare I say, criticism? Is it not worth talking about the fact we see the same trends for season upon season but yet nothing changes? It seems fair game for other clubs. I don't see Man United fans getting told to fuck off and remember how lucky they are when they talk about their boring football for example.

It's important to remember that we're talking in relative terms. If we suddenly got into financial trouble or got relegated the current concerns would pale into insignificance. I thought this went without saying but to some people it seems that Arsenal fans aren't aware of this. I think everyone realises that some clubs are in terrible trouble or possibly in even worse repetitive cycles (eg Villa, Sunderland or worse, Leeds, QPR).

Simon summed it up really. Arsenal are a perpetually repetitive and predictable club in the last ten years and that is frustrating. Why shouldn't fans talk about these concerns just as fans of other clubs do? I think we have a great chance to win the league this season and if we do, I think the automatic mindset will be more positive. Right now, the predictions are likely that injuries will get the better of us, we won't sign anyone in January and we won't perform in the title deciding games. These aren't unwarranted assumptions because this has happened consistently over the last ten years.

[Beefy]

I don't think anyone takes issue with Arsenal fans having justified concerns about their club. But it should be measured - we never, ever see anything positive from you guys. You're blessed to support a great club full of great players yet you are just so fucking joyless about the whole thing. All you do is moan and complain as if the rest of us are going to sympathise that you might finish eight points off of top instead of five.

[Simon]

so if you think its fair enough when will you get bored of spurs finishing around 5th?

If I'm honest I am already bored of the Europa League and have been for a long time because we're the same as Arsenal in that, cruising through the group every year only to crash out around the quarters, but we tend to be *fairly* close to qualifying for the CL most years so the endless fifth place finishes don't feel like they're going nowhere. Plus the constant changing of managers lets us believe that "this time it'll be different" every two years or so, which Arsenal don't get because Wenger has been there so long and is unwilling to move away from what he believes in, for better or worse.

[BBF]

Arsenal give me nothing on match days, Spurs give me a three course meal, drinks and a programme therefore Arsenal is shit.

[Simon]

Enhancing our reputation as a fucking feeder club.

[Beefy]

The three course meal at Spurs is a gorgeous. Shame about being surrounded by Spurs fans when you're eating it though.

[BBF]

I'm in the press room so it's probably even worse, to be honest.

[BBF]

Enhancing our reputation as a fucking feeder club.

WAHEY

[The Rosk]

Arsenal give me nothing on match days, Spurs give me a three course meal, drinks and a programme therefore Arsenal is shit.

Do you have a job to do with football?

[The Rosk]

They're extremely successful every single season. That is why we'd swap with them in a second. I wouldn't swap with The Rosk for Villa's status.

Supporting a team who consistently finish towards the top end of the table, compete in Europe, challenge for trophies, win trophies, who play great attacking football with some of the best footballers in the World in their team is a situation that most people would see as being a good thing.


I don't think anyone takes issue with Arsenal fans having justified concerns about their club. But it should be measured - we never, ever see anything positive from you guys. You're blessed to support a great club full of great players yet you are just so fucking joyless about the whole thing. All you do is moan and complain as if the rest of us are going to sympathise that you might finish eight points off of top instead of five.

Beefy Boom.

You are all utterly joyless cunts.

[Mik]

Its entirely true. The Arsenal fans on here are the most miserable fans on the forum, constantly moaning and joyless with the least reason to be. I can complain about Sunderland from time to time, because they are awful and play turgid football, are a complete waste of money to watch, the players seem to only have passion for the club when their premier league status (and therefore their wages) are in doubt. And Arsenal fans can complain about their team because they don't fix obvious problems...that are POSSIBLY holding them back from winning the league (ultimately there is less room for manoeuvre involved in ousting Man City/Chelsea compared to just not finishing in the bottom 3).

But the difference comes in the fact that when Sunderland win, I take joy in it, unbridled pleasure and joy. I don't feel the need to temper the celebration of a derby win with 'But we are probably going to lose next week and go down anyway'. I have seen Arsenal fans on this forum: Complain about scoring because 'its just going to be the same old story, score too early and then sit back instead of pushing on for another', I've seen them celebrate for qualifying from the group stages of the Champions league while AT THE SAME TIME complaining about the fact that they'll only go out in the next round, I've seen Arsenal fans complain about qualifying in fourth anyway because they aren't going to win it and I've EVEN seen Arsenal fans complain about winning a game because it'll 'paper over the cracks and we'll not end up buying any players'...complaining about winning a game.

I haven't seen fans from any other team be so utterly critical and joyless. Yes Arsenal fans are allowed to criticise, but what exactly do they think that they've got to complain about more than any other fan on here?

This says it all to me:



So what should the expectations of Arsenal fans be then? Mid-table? Avoiding relegation?

I'm trying to work out when it is ok to criticise.


You've never in your life finished mid-table or had to avoid relegation...so what makes you think that anyone on here would suggest that should be your expectation? Relentlessly negative. Of course Simon can sympathise with you a bit when nobody else can, because of all the clubs his is the one in the most similar position, just repeatedly a place or two lower in the league and in a different european cup instead.

[Reech]

These draws are always suspiciously the same, aren't they?

[Reech]

Or is it because we always have the same 5-10 teams in these draws and it's just more likely?

[Reech]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWLrK01WEAEw4Zf.jpg

[Simon]

:lol: Arsenal

[Andy]

We deserve it for never wining the group. #nowwecanconcentrateontheleague

[wardy]

The cheek of Andy to come here and say they're never wining.

[son_of_foley]

Barca are probably the most beatable they've been in 10 years. I'm not saying they're shit like

[Andy]

Really? I think they've looked the best they have since the Pep era.

[Simon]

Yeah same. Mad call sof, they now have three Messis up front ffs.

[Fanny]

Juve Bayern is a MONSTER last 16 game, well looking forward to that.

[Andy]

Thought there was something in it for us if we'd played better tonight. Messi, Neymar and Suarez were surprisingly quiet and we created just as many clear chances if not more. Thought Ox made a few poor decisions and Sanchez is out of form. Oh well, not an terrible performance and not a mauling.

[son_of_foley]

Barca are probably the most beatable they've been in 10 years. I'm not saying they're shit like

This was a good call. Before they went on this run when messi was out they were shaky but fuck me they've gone nuts

[Hlebsfall]

I went tonight, performance was as expected. Be a bit threatening without looking like they're going to ever score, then give away a couple of shit goals. And that's Europe done again. Like the last 10 seasons.

[The Rosk]

Just give up mate. Honestly.

[Romford Pele]

Thought we played fairly well, especially at the back and midfield. The difference was the finishing, you cannot be so profligate against Barcelona, nights like this show we are still missing a top level forward.

Also, Flamini's brainfart has pretty much ended the tie. He needs to go in the summer, and bring someone like Wanyama in.

Wasn't a thrashing at least, and once we are out of this we can focus on the league.

[wardy]

Should've signed Wanyama beforehand.

http://i.imgur.com/aYFRj.jpg

[MikeHunt]

ugh, yous are the fucking worst.

[The Beer Monster]

I've stuck a whole shiny pound on Arsenal to win 2-0. 95-1. Gonna be a millionaire.

[Romford Pele]

Ahahahhaha

[JP]

We're only 15 minutes in, but I'm impressed with Arsenal so far. If they can nick the first goal this could get interesting.

[JP]

Then again...

[Andy]

Maybe Barca aren't such big favourites for the CL this year - they've gifted us so many chances in this half.

[JP]

What a goal!

And you're right, you've had quite a few chances. This isn't over yet.

[JP]

Is now. Classic Arsenal, should be 1-2, player slips and Suarez shins one in.

[Andy]

Positives: Iwobi was really good and Welbeck was a nuisance.

[JP]

Positives: Iwobi was really good and Welbeck was a nuisance.

You feeling alright mate?

[Simon]

Iwobi did look really good. Arsenal weren't bad, but Barcelona are just too good. The second and third goals were just ridiculous.

[Andy]

Yeah it was a perfectly decent performance but we never had any chance. I'm glad Iwobi played and played well. Elneny gave another impressive performance too.

Our run of form is actually shocking right now though. Something like 3 wins in 15, lowest goal total in ten seasons, out of every competition, conceding at a higher rate than we have done in years. Not good.

[Ozanne]

To be fair to Arsenal fans after signing no outfield player in the summer when they clearly need more options, Wenger should be held to account for that alone. What a glaring error that is proving to be.

[Romford Pele]

A huge error.

What difference over the tie would a world class forward have made? We might not have got through but it would have made things much closer no doubt. We played ok in both games and created a lot of chances, but Barca took theirs and we didn't.

I'm not saying we should have a forward line of the level of Suarez, Messi & Neymar (who has?!), but I do think that Giroud, Walcott and Wellbeck are not at the level where they should be starting games like this.

[RFF Champ]

Ramsey, Ozil and Sanchez are all missing key chances. Giroud is actually the one player exceeding the number of goals one might expect him to have based on the number and 'quality' of chances he has had.

[Romford Pele]

He is also guilty of missing some absolute sitters this season, and is in an awful run of form.

[The Rosk]

GUILTY

[Romford Pele]

yep

[Simon]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdvurkHXEAAZpYa.jpg

Marca (Madrid paper) player ratings for yesterday :lol:

[Ozanne]

A huge error.

What difference over the tie would a world class forward have made? We might not have got through but it would have made things much closer no doubt. We played ok in both games and created a lot of chances, but Barca took theirs and we didn't.

I'm not saying we should have a forward line of the level of Suarez, Messi & Neymar (who has?!), but I do think that Giroud, Walcott and Wellbeck are not at the level where they should be starting games like this.

It probably wouldn't have made too huge a difference in the tie, but it certainly would've put you in a better place in the title race. A better striker, and better DM/playmaker and you'd be right up there with Leicester or clear away at the top. I'd love to hear from him why he signed no one in the summer, seemed a very odd thing at the time and now it's costing him his best shot of a title in years.

[Romford Pele]

Because Giroud, Wellbeck & Walcott are world class and there is no one out there who is better :rolleyes:

[The Rosk]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz get to your thread lads.

[Romford Pele]

Post something to discuss then Rosk, rather than continually complaining.

[Ozanne]

Because Giroud, Wellbeck & Walcott are world class and there is no one out there who is better :rolleyes:

Huh, I'm not sure that's what I meant?

[The Rosk]

Post something to discuss then Rosk, rather than continually complaining.

I'm just moderating. Sorting the shite out.

[Romford Pele]

Nothing to moderate. Don't see any rules broken here.

If you want to move the conversation on, be my guest.

[The Rosk]

I have. Go to your own thread. There, did it again.

[BBF]

Juventus/Bayern was a good game weren't it?

[The Rosk]

Fucking brilliant BBF.

Is there any ITK on where Lewa is going next year? BAYERN/BARCA final would be jizzworthy.

[Simon]

:fingersx: for City/Bayern in the quarters :D

[Simon]

Wolfsburg vs Real Madrid
Bayern vs Benfica
Barcelona vs Atletico Madrid
PSG vs Man City

Tasty.

[Murphy]

Yeah, City/PSG will be one I'll definitely watch. PSG to get through, I'd imagine.

[Hlebsfall]

UEFA keeping up its fine tradition of rigging draws, and keeping Bayern/Barca/Real away from each other in the quarters for about the 50th year in a row.

[Simon]

Surprised you'd go for all that conspiracy bollocks.

[Simon]

Looking forward to Barca/Atletico tonight. Atletico apparently only have one fit centre back so some 20 year old might be starting having barely played before :\

[Andy]

Mad game in Madrid, ref let Iniesta off with a pretty definite red card and now he's given Barca a free kick instead of a pen. Barca on the verge of going out. :eek:

[Romford Pele]

Some interesting stats....

1. Diego Simeone earns less than half what Arsene Wenger does
2. Atletico Madrid make less than a quarter of what Arsenal do on match days
3. The Atletico first 11 cost less than half what Arsenal's cost
4. The Atletico wage bill is less than half Arsenal's
5. Atletico play in a much smaller ground
6. Atletico have sold/lost: Arda Turan, Courtois, Diego Costa, Thiago, Falcao and yet they've continued their incredible success.

[Simon]

Good to see Barca lose out to a shit refereeing decision for once. Quite difficult to call a winner from this point, all the teams have notable weaknesses but are more than capable of matching anyone on their day. I'd love to see Atletico go one better and win it this time, definitely the neutrals' favourites.

[Peter Griffin]

Interesting stat: 100% of Arsenal fans are utter cunts.

[BBF]

Some interesting stats....

1. Diego Simeone earns less than half what Arsene Wenger does
2. Atletico Madrid make less than a quarter of what Arsenal do on match days
3. The Atletico first 11 cost less than half what Arsenal's cost
4. The Atletico wage bill is less than half Arsenal's
5. Atletico play in a much smaller ground
6. Atletico have sold/lost: Arda Turan, Courtois, Diego Costa, Thiago, Falcao and yet they've continued their incredible success.

They are better than you regardless than any of that guff you've come out with there.

[Simon]

Wasn't that Romford's point, that they're much better despite being on a fraction of the finances?

[Torn]

Why not compare them to Barcelona or any other genuinely bigger team (that have bigger grounds and have spent more money on both wages and transfers) they have also got further in the CL than instead of directly comparing to Arsenal in some kind of weird self loathing comparison?

[BBF]

You could come up with a list of random 'facts' comparing any two sides in the world if you want to put across a one sided view. It means nothing basically.

[BBF]

1. Barnet have scored one more league goal than Arsenal this season
2. Barnet are, financially, the 3rd smallest club in their division yet currently sit 15th in the table a massive overachievement whilst Arsenal are the 4th biggest club in their division and currently sit third which is frankly piss poor.
3. Barnet are unbeaten in European competition having beaten Serie C side, Pavia, in their only European game in their history whilst Arsenal have lost multiple times in Europe which isn't good enough.

SOME INTERESTING STATS THERE. FUCK MY LIFE CUT CUT STAB HANG

[Simon]

I was doing an article recently about clubs that have fallen out of the Premier League and the company I was writing for insisted they wanted average points and average goals for their current season...even though they're meaningless because the teams are all in different leagues.

http://www.thesoccerstore.co.uk/blog/latest-news/fall-of-the-titans-2/

What could have been a half-decent idea for an article ended up basically being complete shit full of irrelevant, meaningless data.

[son_of_foley]

The graphics are repulsive.

You can't read them

[BBF]

Also why is Rangers relevant?

[Simon]

Exactly. And yes sof it looks ugly as sin. They even changed the title to include the word titans. BY what possible measurement have Portsmouth ever been titans?

[wardy]

In that Mitchell and Webb sketch maybe.

[son_of_foley]

The graphics are repulsive.

You can't read them

MOST RECENT SUCCESSFUL SEASON 92/93 QUALIFIED FOR UEFA CUP
EUORPE? NO

ok

[Romford Pele]

Wasn't that Romford's point, that they're much better despite being on a fraction of the finances?

Yep. It flew over BBFs head though.

[BBF]

Whoosh right over my head WAHEY

[Beefy]

You IDIOT

[son_of_foley]

Good to see Barca lose out to a shit refereeing decision for once. Quite difficult to call a winner from this point, all the teams have notable weaknesses but are more than capable of matching anyone on their day. I'd love to see Atletico go one better and win it this time, definitely the neutrals' favourites.

Iniesta shouldn't have been on the pitch though so think ref decisions level out

[Romford Pele]

Whoosh right over my head WAHEY

What a LEGEND

[Fanny]

whilst Arsenal are the 4th biggest club in their division and currently sit third which is frankly piss poor.


is it really? I mean, yes it is, but in that context I don't see why?

[BBF]

is it really? I mean, yes it is, but in that context I don't see why?

According to Arsenal fans they should win the treble every year and be the best team ever and WENGER OUT.

In all honesty, the Arsenal self harm that this board sees is pretty dull at times but I do genuinely find it hard to see how they don't see that the level at which they moan waters down the effect.

For example when you get 'MANAGER OUT' at most clubs it has an effect because it shows that things at the club aren't good and something needs to change. Arsenal fans do it so often though that it doesn't have that effect they desire and no one gives a shit.

[Fanny]

yeah I get all that, I just don't see how being the 4th biggest team in their league and sitting third in the table is a negative disparity, taken in its own context

[BBF]

Its not I was just taking the piss that the situation isn't good enough for Arsenal fans.

[Simon]

Is it thicko day in here today or something?

[wardy]

Oh look it's Jimmy Thavile.

[Flow (Ice Cold) 3000]

Wasn't the point of building the Emirates that they could start competing with Man U? Their fans pay £100 a week and they haven't actually challenged for over 10 years. Wenger hasn't made an inspired signing since Henry. Their two recent signings that have kind of worked out were Madrid/Barca cast offs.

They sell all their best players to United/City and end up playing cunts like Coquelin and Flamini. They get in the CL every year but haven't come close since Paris.

They're not even good to be on FIFA anymore.

[_me]

Wasn't the point of building the Emirates that they could start competing with Man U? Their fans pay £100 a week and they haven't actually challenged for over 10 years. Wenger hasn't made an inspired signing since Henry. Their two recent signings that have kind of worked out were Madrid/Barca cast offs.

They sell all their best players to United/City and end up playing cunts like Coquelin and Flamini. They get in the CL every year but haven't come close since Paris.

They're not even good to be on FIFA anymore.
The point of building the Emirates was to make vast sums of money for the owners. Task accomplished.

[RuneEdge]

They're not even good to be on FIFA anymore.
They're always good on FIFA.

[Flow (Ice Cold) 3000]

They're always good on FIFA.

Walcott and Oxlade are dead, the pace thing was years ago. Giroud is a myth

[RuneEdge]

Pace can still murder you on FIFA.

[Simon]

Only if they have other abilities too. You can't just rinse fuck out of someone with nothing more than pace any more, it's useful if you're already beyond the defender but otherwise you need strength and control too. They fixed that a couple of years ago, it's all about rounded players now. Lamela is my boy, not the quickest but you try nick the ball off him and he'll be past you like you weren't there. Same with Eriksen.

[RuneEdge]

Oh yeah, of course. Pace alone isnt easy to abuse, but a player with lots of pace and half decent stats everywhere else will usually do more damage than someone like Eriksen or Lamela.
If you play online, people still use fast players over the skillful ones, and Arsenal have a fair few.
And its not just for attacking. Hector Bellerin for example is an absolute monster in defence even though his overall stat average is poor.

[wardy]

I think I would enjoy watching Steve McManaman being brutally murdered. Him and Burley.

[Andy]

This has been really rubbish from Man City.

[wardy]

C'mon Atletico. I want Torres to win it and rub his ballsack in Ronaldo's face.

[Romford Pele]

Marcelo is shite

[Canuck]

Pepe is a tool.

[Murphy]

Pepe is a maniac.

Come on Atletico.

[MikeHunt]

Boring!

[wardy]

I fucking hate Pepe, total scumbag on the pitch.

[Canuck]

I think ATL were unfortunate to not come out on top. Real deserved a couple of straight reds which were let go, one of which went to Ramos who scored in penalty kicks. They should have converted on their second half penalty, but other than that I think they were the better team throughout.

Irritating that Ronaldo is getting so much praise for a very poor performance. Reeks of Sidney Crosby's "golden goal" moment (if anyone can make reference to that).

[wardy]

Who's praising Ronaldo? He loves waiting to get the glory on the 5th penalty. He tried the same thing for Portugal and they were beat before it got to him.

[Canuck]

Might just be the local stations (Canadians who can't name anyone outside superstars), but he is the main headline on almost all the articles I have seen.

[Andy]

It was a strange and fairly dull game. Atletico were as poor as I've ever seen them under Simeone in the first half and Real sat back for most of it. I thought Ronaldo was poor and it seemed like he wasn't 100% fit. Bale was slightly better but again didn't seem fully fit. Real seemed to lose control of the game after Kroos went off which I thought was a really weird decision. Casemiro MOTM for me.

[MikeHunt]

Anyone watching the Celtic game?

[Fanny]

practically impossible where I am - how they looking?

[MikeHunt]

absolutely shite.

[MikeHunt]

Ambrose and Janko have no right to be anywhere near the team.

Christie's crossing has been rank he is seriously under performing, Griffiths looks lost on the right, Brown is taking set pieces, why?

Dembele's goal should have stood and the pitch isn't great but still shockingly bad.