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View Full Version : How good is......Wayne Rooney?



Beefy
November 14th, 2014, 7:18 AM
Wayne Rooney wins his 100th cap tomorrow. I assume he will be the youngest England player to do so. Whilst he still has some way to go you would expect him to break Bobby Charlton's goalscoring records for both Manchester United and England and Peter Shilton's record for number of caps. He has had a fair few disappointing tournaments over the years for England - albeit often due to circumstances (Injury, suspension) but at the same time is already England's record scorer of competative goals.

As I said in the other thread I was leaning away from choosing Rooney as the next to be discussed because he seems to attrach such over the top criticism. The guys record speaks for himself and it seems to me that so many people are now claiming him to be overrated that he has become underrated. His willingness to sacrifice himself for the team and his ability to play in a number of positions have resulted in managers at Club and Country playing him in positions where he is more effective in order to squeeze other big names into the side. But despite this he has managed to score at a very consistent rate.

He's no Messi or Ronaldo and the hopes that he might have such potential early on have definitely counted against him but he is a very good player, a very good striker and deserves to be held up as such.

Beefy
November 14th, 2014, 7:19 AM
Or is he an overrated, fat, Scouse granny-shagger?

Simon
November 14th, 2014, 7:35 AM
I think I said this before recently but I think Rooney's problem is that he was always destined to fail to meet expectations because he was already an exceptionally good player at 16 and, more importantly, had little scope for improvement. Yeah he could have taken better care of himself and maybe worked on the mental side of the game, but comparisons to Ronaldo were always going to unfavourable to him - Ronaldo had a slew of incredible abilities as a kid, but also gaping weaknesses in his game. Ronaldo's dedication to improvement is a huge credit to him, but the scope was always there for him to make rapid improvements. For Rooney, he was already physically a man at 16, was an intelligent player (not perfect and he has improved, but still incredible for his age)...the limitations of his game weren't particularly ones he could expect to massively improve over time. Ronaldo started out as a 7/10 player with the ability to be a 10, Rooney started as an 8 with the ability to be an 8.5, if this arbitrary statistical shit is any use to anyone (no).

I think he's been unfortunate to an extent in that he is seen as something of a totem for a failed generation, I would argue somewhat unfairly. He is emblematic of the 'Golden Generation' in that he had exceptional talent and perhaps hasn't made the most of it at international level, but for much of that time the players around him haven't been good enough to achieve anything - the one year they were (2004), we were on course to do something special until his injury, and even in such a good group of players he was the star man, while still a teenager. You can't blame Rooney for not dragging any of the post-2006 squads to glory any more than you can hold George Best's lack of international success against him; it's a team game, and if the team isn't up to it then one great player isn't going to make the difference.

The fact that he's likely to break all sorts of records is impressive, though arguably misleading - the sheer number of games played nowadays makes it easier for players to break records - but it's still a fantastic record. He's not lived up to the hype, but he's still been a consistently important part of the England setup for over a decade. A lot of the failings of the England side have been placed at his door as the star player, when in reality I think if we had a few more players of his class we'd be a lot closer to doing something special. That said, his goalscoring record at major tournaments has been poor and that can't be blamed entirely on the weakness of the players around him. That's the only major criticism I have of his career at either club or international level. You could probably say that overall he's underachieved, but only slightly, and he's still had an exceptional career.

Romford Pele
November 14th, 2014, 9:48 AM
Rooney has been an excellent player, but like Simon said he was already a man at 16 and has never improved upon that.

People assumed that he would get better but the reality is that he flatlined. Probably the best english player since Gazza, but sadly that isnt saying much.

Also, he doesnt have the professionalism that the likes of Ronaldo has. He wouldnt be in the gym in the summer, but having chips and wkds...

El Capitano Gatisto
November 14th, 2014, 12:09 PM
I don't agree that the problem with Rooney is that he started off so strongly that he could never fulfill expectations, it's that he actually has regressed as a footballer when logic dictates he should have peaked. He found a certain level of consistency in performance from 2006 - 2009 when Ronaldo was also firing for United, and had his best season after Ronaldo left in terms of attacking threat and scoring goals which suggested he was ready to kick on. Prior to that stand-out season he performed a superb role for the United team as a roving attacking player with work rate, movement, passing ability, pace, power and finishing when required. However, really since he was injured vs. Bayern in the CL in 2010 during that stellar reason, he really hasn't found any consistency. I'm not attributing it to that injury per se, but early the next season he requested a transfer and it was clear his attitude had deteriorated. Throughout his career Rooney was a player who, when he had an off game, he could be complete shit. I think for the past 4 years he has had a large number of games where he has been complete shit, despite maintaining a reasonable goal return. At times his touch completely deserts him, his pace has long gone, his finishing is wayward and his passing is poor, unintelligent or indulgent. Sometimes it appears that in an effort to be the centre of all things to his team, he has become less direct and less able to play to his strengths. He is not an effective number ten because he doesn't have the intelligence, technique or craft on the ball to do that job, but it often appears this is what he sees himself as. All of this also applies to England, where his desire to play as a deep-lying forward often slows the game and is detrimental to other players. In addition, him beginning seasons for Manchester United visibly over-weight is really disgraceful.

In all he's a player whose attitude has probably cost him, both in regards to his dedication to his physical fitness and his attitude to playing to his actual strengths rather than what he perceives them as.

Beefy
November 17th, 2014, 9:21 AM
Simon has torpedoed my POTTY chances here.

Simon
November 17th, 2014, 9:24 AM
I voted for you you great big ball bag.

Mik
November 17th, 2014, 4:19 PM
I think he's a good player fighting with the fact that he has a bad attitude and its the battle that has stopped him from being as good as he could've been.