Final Battle 2014

[Defrost]

ROH World Title
Jay Briscoe vs Adam Cole

ROH Tag Titles
reDragon vs Time Splitters


If reDragon and Splitters have a match anywhere near their match from the NJPW PPV this weekend this show will be worth it.

[Defrost]

* ROH World Title Match: Jay Briscoe (c) vs. Adam Cole
* ROH TV Title Match: Jay Lethal (c) vs. Matt Sydal
* ROH Tag Team Title Match: ReDRagon (c) vs. Alex Shelley & KUSHIDA
* Michael Elgin vs. Tommaso Ciampa
* RD Evans vs. Moose
* Roderick Strong vs. Adam Page
* The Young Bucks & ACH vs. Daniels, Kazarian & Cedric Alexander

[Hero!]

I say all 3 titles change hands here. NJPW wants Cole, the TV title NEEDS some freshness, and I think splitters/DRagons at WK is for both titles.

[Hero!]

And RD Evans vs Moose is gonna be awesome, I just know it.

[OD50]

Looks like a solid show. Would love if Ciampa stomps Elgin.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Lethal/Sydal has the potential to be off-the-charts.

[OD50]

I'm really intrigued by the venue. Looks really cool from the pictures I've seen.

[Nash Diesel]

Well it's almost a given Red Dragon will lose since they're like 15 time tag champions within the last year. I think it's too early to take the strap off of Jay Briscoe and considering how lackluster Cole's title run was, I say if NJPW wants Cole why does he need to be champion? He wasn't a very good ROH champ at all, and if all they want is the ROH champ, what's wrong with Jay? Is Japan facial profiling my man Briscoe???

Elgin, why is that dude even around? Terrible on the mic, looks like a turd, and his style isn't anything special at all.

[The Rosk]

I'm really intrigued by the venue. Looks really cool from the pictures I've seen.


Hey, could you pass the shirt on? It's been 21 days.

Much love,

The Rosk

[Cewsh]

Well it's almost a given Red Dragon will lose since they're like 15 time tag champions within the last year. I think it's too early to take the strap off of Jay Briscoe and considering how lackluster Cole's title run was, I say if NJPW wants Cole why does he need to be champion? He wasn't a very good ROH champ at all, and if all they want is the ROH champ, what's wrong with Jay? Is Japan facial profiling my man Briscoe???

Elgin, why is that dude even around? Terrible on the mic, looks like a turd, and his style isn't anything special at all.

Cole needs to be champion because the agreement with New Japan is for the ROH title to be defended at Wrestle Kingdom.

They don't want Jay Briscoe because he has zero mainstream appeal and does not wrestle the style they want.

[Nash Diesel]

Cole needs to be champion because the agreement with New Japan is for the ROH title to be defended at Wrestle Kingdom.

They don't want Jay Briscoe because he has zero mainstream appeal and does not wrestle the style they want.

Idk, the Briscoes are pretty over in Japan. But I mean shit, your bias toward Jay Briscoe is A-understandable and B-probably why you feel he has no mainstream appeal whatsoever. I guess I'm just not really sold on Adam Cole. His "style" doesn't stand out, his look isn't anything special, and again I've just never been sold on him no matter how hard ROH pushes him.

[Cewsh]

Idk, the Briscoes are pretty over in Japan. But I mean shit, your bias toward Jay Briscoe is A-understandable and B-probably why you feel he has no mainstream appeal whatsoever. I guess I'm just not really sold on Adam Cole. His "style" doesn't stand out, his look isn't anything special, and again I've just never been sold on him no matter how hard ROH pushes him.

1. Whether or not the Briscoes are over "in Japan" is debatable, but irrelevant. He is not over in front of New Japan's audience because they have never heard of him. Same with every other ROH talent. It's an untapped market.

2. Jay Briscoe has no mainstream appeal because his look, promos and in ring style, while a great fit for ROH, do not translate to success at the next level. This has nothing to do with my thoughts about Jay Briscoe as a person. He is not Tokyo Dome material.

3. Adam Cole probably isn't Tokyo Dome material either right now, at least in terms of skills, but he has a great look, can effectively place a dickhead heel in front of a crowd that will want to see him as one, and while his style may not stand out in ROH, it's one that is more adaptable to work in other companies.

[Nash Diesel]

What are you basing #2 on in terms of "do not translate to success as the next level"?

So basically New Japan is going to dictate who is the ROH champion?

[Hero!]

In this case, yeah, they can. If ROH wants the free advertisement of having their belts on NJPW PPV, they'll go along with who New Japan says should be champion.

[Mills]

The whole idea in the first place was to go from Elgin back to Cole. The whole reason Brisco had the title was Elgin and his general stupidity in the first place. Cole is walking out the champ, no doubt about it.

Also, they added a 4 corner survival to finish the card off

* ROH World Title Match: Jay Briscoe (c) vs. Adam Cole
* ROH TV Title Match: Jay Lethal (c) vs. Matt Sydal
* ROH Tag Team Title Match: ReDRagon (c) vs. Alex Shelley & KUSHIDA
* Michael Elgin vs. Tommaso Ciampa
* RD Evans vs. Moose
* Roderick Strong vs. Adam Page
* The Young Bucks & ACH vs. Daniels, Kazarian & Cedric Alexander
* Jimmy Jacobs vs. Hanson vs. Mark Briscoe vs. Caprice Coleman

[Nash Diesel]

In this case, yeah, they can. If ROH wants the free advertisement of having their belts on NJPW PPV, they'll go along with who New Japan says should be champion.

I get that, but to me it'd be like if prior to the WWF helping ECW they said "Look, we're going to have you come on to Raw, but we can't have a guy like Raven as the champion, we want it to be Rob Van Dam, and then we will use RVD on future Raw's to build a ECW v. WWF rivalry". But (follow me below Hero)


The whole idea in the first place was to go from Elgin back to Cole. The whole reason Brisco had the title was Elgin and his general stupidity in the first place. Cole is walking out the champ, no doubt about it.



Basically Briscoe is a transitional champion, which is unfortunate because I truly believe he's incredible and could be much more if everything would fall into place for him.

Plus, it kind of figts with the whole "Kingdom" stable, they can't just parade around that furry pink belt. Again, it just goes back to my personal taste and not seeing what some see in Adam Cole. I've even made a list of like 10 other wrestlers I would've given the strap to when he won it. With that said, he's a much better choice than fucking Michael Elgin.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Jay Briscoe is better than Adam Cole in every way either for ROH or NJPW.

[Defrost]

New Japan is head over heels in love with Cole.

[Nash Diesel]

Apparently. Not sure why. At all. You could pretty much take any pretty boy indy guy and call him Adam Cole and boom, there's nothing special.

[Tainted Eclipse]

NJPW also put the title on AJ Styles right before running the Yokohama Arena. They seem to get odd ideas in their heads for strange reasons, I guess Adam Cole is one of them. There are dozens of much better options if they want to push some gaijins.

[Defrost]

Bennett, Taven, and Maria have gotten over shockingly well in the tag tournament so far.

[Nash Diesel]

Not a fan of Taven but I love Maria and think Bennett isnt half bad, liked him better with hair ha.

[Mills]

Taven reminds me of someone, almost like a CAW with his blank face, but not sure

[Hero!]

I'm a big Taven mark, but that's cause he's the champ at my locl indy and I've seen him perform at his best against the best. He had a triple threat with Styles and Bourne a few weeks back and it tore the house down.

[StoneColdWWE316]

Final Battle looks like a solid PPV. I can't see Jay Briscoe losing his Title this soon and I think its cool he hasn't been pinned in 2 years or something like that. One Title at least has to change so I am going with Matt Sydal to win the TV Title. rEDragon to retain their Belts as well. I also have Elgin,Bad Influence/Cedric,and Roderick Strong winning their Matches. I will be interested to see how the NY venue looks as BITW in Nashville looked great in June.

[Nash Diesel]

I think it's a shoe-in that Red Dragon are going to lose simply because it seems like they drop the titles often, like I said in my earlier post they're like 40 time tag champs and they won them for the first time I think a year ago?

If what some of these cats are saying is true and New Japan wants to have Adam Cole as the champ so they can use him for Wrestle Kingdom, then we're probably going to see Jay lose :( Plus if he wasn't even supposed to beat Elgin and Cole was going to win it back, I shouldn't be too negative about the idea. I just think it sucks because he had to take time off when he first won it due to a shoulder injury (I think that's what the injury was) so he never had a chance to really run with it. I can tell you that the fans seem to love him as the champ more than a lot of guys who have held the gold in the last 5-6 years.

[Hero!]

anyone watching this and possibly have a way for me to also watching this?

[JT4104]

anyone watching this and possibly have a way for me to also watching this?LOL...I'm in same boat. My go to doesn't seem to be working today.

[Tainted Eclipse]

i dont know whether ill bother watching this. hero if you have the link ive given you before, im sure this will be streamed at the same place.

[Hero!]

I definitely lost that link since i cleared out my PM box deal

[Hero!]

nvm: found 1. if anyone needs it, hit me up

[Hero!]

4 corners deal not a bad match. Hanson is a fucking lame name though. He should just go by warbeard

[Tainted Eclipse]

decided to watch this at least until i get bored. opener was fun, better than i expected. whats with the shitty arena, manhattan center too expensive for them now?

and mark needs to win the world title soon.

[Hero!]

Terminal 5 is a cool venue for concerts.

[Tainted Eclipse]

they need to do a show at the murphy rec center

[Hero!]

Has Jimmy Jacobs ever not been in a stable? I can't imagine him being able to function on his own.

[Hero!]

Has anyone ever actually enjoyed Roderick strong? I just don't get it

[Tainted Eclipse]

Has anyone ever actually enjoyed Roderick strong? I just don't get it

The Danielson feud in late 2005.

[Hero!]

Yeah, but that was when Danielson could do no wrong.

well, he still cant, but you know whatImean.

[Hero!]

The Kingdom have taken over the ROH Twitter and it is amazing. They've just been shitting on Elgin and his baseball crap, lol

[DDT]

-How come the tail-of-the-tape doesn't give Elgin's batting record?-

Love Matt Taven.

[Hero!]

@ringofhonor: new move from Elgin wonder which new Japan wrestler he stole that from? -MT

LOLOLOLLL

[DDT]

Oh thank God Daniels and Kaz are here to save us from our boredom! Oh and Cedric's there too, I guess.

[Hero!]

YOUNG BUCKS THANK FUCK

[DDT]

Addiction and Young Bucks? Yes please.

[DDT]

This match is about 100% better than the rest of the card so far.

[Hero!]

This match is about 100% better than the rest of the card so far.

Scientifically, we refer to this as "The Young Bucks effect".

[DDT]

Now Taven is shit-talking ACH's botch. Why can't he always be THIS Matt Taven?

[DDT]

Scientifically, we refer to this as "The Young Bucks effect".


I thought it was a statistics property, "The Chris Daniels Correlation".

[Hero!]

DAVE MELTZER DRIVER FIVE STARS!!!

[DDT]

YES RD EVANS MATCH THIS IS WHY I'M WATCHING THIS SHOW!!!

[Tainted Eclipse]

very fun match. im liking the young bucks more than i used to.

[Tainted Eclipse]

this is the first i've ever heard of MOOSE. i love him.

[DDT]

Moose's theme is easily the best on the show.

[Tainted Eclipse]

what woman could resist moose

[DDT]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Tainted Eclipse]

although i HATE that flipping spear. regular spear looks millions of times better.

[DDT]

I have been crushed; what else does RD Evans have?! YOU'VE TAKEN HIS STREAK, YOU'VE TAKEN HIS FRIENDS, YOU'VE TAKEN HIS GIRL! YOU MONSTERS!!!!!

[DDT]

Am I the only one who thinks Matt Sydal looks like Alex Shelley these days?

[DDT]

Apparently the official stream is so bad people are asking for refunds.

[DDT]

If you told me before this match that Lethal vs. Sydal would be boring...

[Matthew]

this looks nice

also looks like it is being held in a prison

[DDT]

If this match isn't good I might cry; and I wasn't even that big a fan of the first one.

[Hero!]

All the best people on this show are from NJPW

[Hero!]

Terminal 5 looks really creepy as a wrestling venue

[Tainted Eclipse]

the power struggle match was a lot better

[Hero!]

Why are all of the not-as-good people winning all the title matches ????

[Hero!]

the power struggle match was a lot better

Yupp. This match was carried 100% by KUSHIDA.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Why are all of the not-as-good people winning all the title matches ????

doesnt bode well for the main event!

[Hero!]

doesnt bode well for the main event!

I'm scared, Tim. The booking in this company makes no sense.

[DDT]

I want Jay to win so bad; the meltdowns will be epic. EPIC!!!

[DDT]

Also reDRagon vs. Time Splitters was almost a move-for-move replay of their Power Struggle match.

[Hero!]

I want Jay to win so bad; the meltdowns will be epic. EPIC!!!

:squint:

[DDT]

You've been hating on Adam Cole for months; don't even.

[DDT]

Jay Briscoe just double-stomped Cole's dick through a table. Awesome.

[Tainted Eclipse]

hey this match is good so far

[DDT]

Oh for fuck's sake why?

[Hero!]

You've been hating on Adam Cole for months; don't even.

I have thoroughly enjoyed The Kingdom and obviously I prefer anyone to JayBrisco.

[DDT]

I'm getting a little annoyed at nobody selling anything in this match.

[Hero!]

AMERICAN STRONG STYLE HARDCORE KONICHIWA PURORESU SPIRIT DDT SAN

[Tainted Eclipse]

I have thoroughly enjoyed The Kingdom and obviously I prefer anyone to JayBrisco.

boooo

[Hero!]

I hate kevin kelly on commentary so very much

[Tainted Eclipse]

fuck this crowd

[DDT]

Things just got....tacky!:naughty:

[Tainted Eclipse]

YES JAY

[DDT]

LET THE MELTDOWN BEGIN!!!! BUW-HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[Hero!]

What happened? my stream went dead

[DDT]

Jay Briscoe gave the Jay-Driller on the title belt. Wins match. Stabs Cewsh in the soul.

[Hero!]

Oh god. Briscoe in New Japan. Yikes.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Oh god. Briscoe in New Japan. Yikes.

worse than adam cole in new japan how?

[Cewsh]

Because he's Jay Briscoe.

[Ringo]

Jay Briscoe > Adam Cole. I'm aaaaaall for it.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Yeah, despite his personal beliefs, I think Briscoe is the much better wrestler. I'm down.

[Cewsh]

I don't agree but that's not even the real issue for me. There are good reasons why both shouldn't be champion, which means that nobody in that company deserves it.

[Nash Diesel]

Naw, Briscoe deserves it. I've always thought he was one of the more entertaining wrestlers, the Briscoes were like the Hart Foundation of Ring of Honor and Jay's definitely the Bret of the team. And with the roster not being as strong as it was years ago, he just stands out even more. In-ring he's top 5, on the mic he's probably #1, looks like someone you wouldn't fuck with or want to fuck with lol. I'm glad they didn't give the strap to Cole, even though it wouldn't have bothered me I just think Jay should be given the chance to really show what he can do on his own since he never really got the chance when he first won it due to an injury.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I don't agree but that's not even the real issue for me. There are good reasons why both shouldn't be champion, which means that nobody in that company deserves it.

Who else could it be, then?

[Hero!]

http://dailywrestlingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/matt.jpg

[Nash Diesel]

Matt should've been the guy to beat Steen, that would've been incredible.

[Cewsh]

Who else could it be, then?

Nobody who they have exclusive rights to.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Well there has to be someone deserving in their own company, at least. If you're just talking about who deserves to be on Wrestle Kingdom, than that's a whole other thing, but SOMEONE has to be deserving to be ROH Champion in general, and I think both Briscoe and Cole qualify for that.

[Nash Diesel]

Mike Bennett wouldn't be a bad choice. Silas Young if they pushed him a little harder would be a good champion. And again I have no issues with Jay Briscoe as their champion as he is a really good wrestler, great on the mic, the 2nd part there isn't even something that ROH has ever really given a shit about considering the majority of their champions that had decent runs were not given long reigns because of how great they were on the mic but what they did in the ring.

[Mills]

Nobody who they have exclusive rights to.

Well who though? Are you thinking someone from NJPW? Cause we saw how well Morishima turned out

[Cewsh]

Well there has to be someone deserving in their own company, at least. If you're just talking about who deserves to be on Wrestle Kingdom, than that's a whole other thing, but SOMEONE has to be deserving to be ROH Champion in general, and I think both Briscoe and Cole qualify for that.

Why does someone have to be deserving? They haven't built any actual main event stars.


Well who though? Are you thinking someone from NJPW? Cause we saw how well Morishima turned out

Honestly, AJ is the only guy who could hold it right now that would be a shitshow, and I can't advocate for making a guy your champion if he's gone half the year.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Why does someone have to be deserving? They haven't built any actual main event stars.

Because in ROH's scope, they have built main event stars. As I said, I think Briscoe and Cole are very deserving on their own with what they've done in ROH. Matt Hardy is actually a great shout as well. Other than that, the rest still need some building before they'd be ready, but it's not like they don't have options.

[Cewsh]

Because in ROH's scope, they have built main event stars. As I said, I think Briscoe and Cole are very deserving on their own with what they've done in ROH. Matt Hardy is actually a great shout as well. Other than that, the rest still need some building before they'd be ready, but it's not like they don't have options.

To make myself clear, it's not that I don't think ROH has guys with main event talent, or that the guys they've pushed aren't main eventers in the grander scheme of things when compared to other promotions. That's not what i'm saying. What i'm saying is that within ROH, they've struggled hugely recently to construct an actual main event scene. The Jay Briscoe fiasco through his push into flux, the Michael Elgin thing likewise, guys like AJ and Hardy has been in and out, Steen is gone, and Cole is eyeing New Japan hungrily.

Guys like Young, Ciampa, Lethal, Taven, Bennent and whoever else all may have the talent, but they just haven't been pushed to that level yet, and you can't just throw a title on a guy and call him a main eventer. They're in a tough spot. I get why they're leaning on Briscoe to carry the weight. But ultimately his title reign is more the result of a lack of options than it is his own skills and marketability.

[Hero!]

Going over the ROH roster, here are the guys I can genuinely say should be champion:

- Jay Briscoe
- Adam Cole
- Kyle O'Reilly
- Chris Daniels (transitional run, think Jerry Lynn's run)
- Matt "ReBorn" Sydal

I genuinely can't think of anyone else who ROH could genuinely present as their top guy in any capacity larger than the current market they already have.

[Mills]

To make myself clear, it's not that I don't think ROH has guys with main event talent, or that the guys they've pushed aren't main eventers in the grander scheme of things when compared to other promotions. That's not what i'm saying. What i'm saying is that within ROH, they've struggled hugely recently to construct an actual main event scene. The Jay Briscoe fiasco through his push into flux, the Michael Elgin thing likewise, guys like AJ and Hardy has been in and out, Steen is gone, and Cole is eyeing New Japan hungrily.

Guys like Young, Ciampa, Lethal, Taven, Bennent and whoever else all may have the talent, but they just haven't been pushed to that level yet, and you can't just throw a title on a guy and call him a main eventer. They're in a tough spot. I get why they're leaning on Briscoe to carry the weight. But ultimately his title reign is more the result of a lack of options than it is his own skills and marketability.

I agree with this. The best way to describe it is that they're booking ROH like the Diva's division in WWE. There's the main story around the belt and an undercard story or two. They'll have a story around the ROH title, occasionally around the TV title, and maybe the tag belts. Oh and then some boring crap about the Decade. Here's what they need...

1. Build a core roster. I love watching the occasional AJ Styles match in ROH, I really do. I'd like to see a purpose of them though. Do a hype video showing where he is or what he's up to, explain why he's around once every other month. Just figure out who your roster is. Also, update your site for christ sakes.

2. Structure your roster. I love the idea of Cheeseburger. He's shown that guys from the Dojo can make it to the roster and onto the TV show. However, I've seen him on TV more the last two months then 70% of the people that we're on the Final Battle PPV. Utilize your people and show their intentions.

[Nash Diesel]

Aren't the majority of ROH storylines performance based and the storyline comes a distance 2nd? I'm trying to remember the big storylines surrounding the World title picture between guys like Joe-Punk, Nigel-Danielson, etc. and they for the most part seem to just be the top 2 guys or 2 top guys in general having awesome matches. ROH isn't that great at going the sports entertainment route, they CAN be here and there, but when I think of the legendary ROH guys, I don't really think about the awesome storylines they were part of just the great matches they had. That's one thing about ROH, you might not have a clue who is wrestling, but you'll be enertained by what you see even if it's some straight up directionless match with a bunch of high impact power moves and high flying most of the time lol.

[Psycho666Soldier]

In-ring story. I get what you're saying, but in-ring story adds so much more. Joe/Punk became a big story because the first match was so good, and Punk wanted to prove that he could actually get the job done. Then the rematch becomes that much bigger when you know the history other than "these guys wrestled before."

[Mills]

Aren't the majority of ROH storylines performance based and the storyline comes a distance 2nd? I'm trying to remember the big storylines surrounding the World title picture between guys like Joe-Punk, Nigel-Danielson, etc. and they for the most part seem to just be the top 2 guys or 2 top guys in general having awesome matches. ROH isn't that great at going the sports entertainment route, they CAN be here and there, but when I think of the legendary ROH guys, I don't really think about the awesome storylines they were part of just the great matches they had. That's one thing about ROH, you might not have a clue who is wrestling, but you'll be enertained by what you see even if it's some straight up directionless match with a bunch of high impact power moves and high flying most of the time lol.

When Joe had his big run, you had a lot of stories going like Generation Next going up, Danielson/Homicide, etc.

The big issue is the talent isn't there. Guys like Joe,Punk, Homicide, Bryan etc. aren't there anymore. You can't throw Cedric Alexander and Tomasso Ciampa out there for no reason without having a reason for fans to be invested. It's easy to do that when you could put Danielson/Daniels out there and tell a story in the ring.

[Hero!]

Big stories for the title that I can think of:

Homicide/Bryan
Nigel/Bryan
Joe/Punk
Punk/Joe/Daniels/Gibson 4-way (my favorite ROH match ever, btw)

Non World title feuds that had amazing stories:
the he story for punk/Jimmy in the first ROH cage match was brilliant too. Obviously, Punk/Raven was an amazing storyline. Briscoes/Steenerico. Steen/Generico. ROH vs CZW. there have actually been a shit ton of great stories in ROH that made the matches just that much better.

[Ringo]

Yeah, there were loads back in the day. Just because ROH didn't have backstage comedy and placed greater emphasis on competition and "wrestling ability" doesn't mean they neglected the "sports entertainment". And as Psycho pointed out, there's in-ring storytelling as well. Which for me is the whole point. That's why I have no interest whatsoever in seeing two athletic spot monkeys go 50 minutes every night.

[Tainted Eclipse]

ROH at its peak did pro wrestling as good as just about anywhere ever has. They had big angles, interesting characters, comedy, a good hierarchy on the card, long term themes (Danielson's heel run, Morishima as monster champ, Nigel's prominent ascent throughout 2007), super over main eventers and knew how to build to a big match to get people excited about it beyond just looking forward to seeing a good wrestling match (but still that too).

[Defrost]

Only watched the tag title match so far. The crowd was really bad. Was it like that the whole show?

[Beer-Belly]

The hate for Adam Cole here is weird. He's charismatic and fun to watch.

[Tainted Eclipse]

I don't see him as particularly charismatic nor fun to watch. He's never impressed me in the ring, his promos are lame and his second rope canadian destroyer thing might be the worst move in wrestling.

[Matthew]

what is the other brother up to? injured?

[Nash Diesel]

The hate for Adam Cole here is weird. He's charismatic and fun to watch.

Someone on the board told me "Go watch his work in PWG" when Cole was ROH champion and I did and I have to say that he's somewhat brought the personality he shoes in PWG over to ROH as time goes by, especially pairing up with Maria and Bennett....but idk. I was never a fan of Future Shock and it just felt very Rocky Maivia with the way they have booked him. I did like his feud with Matt Hardy, the matches with Kyle O'Reilly were pretty bad ass too. But ever since he won the title, I just haven't seen him rise up and be anything more than what we've seen 100 times from heels in that exact same position. I don't see the appeal in his mic work or his ring work, you could put really anyone in his role and they could pull it off that's how basic what he does truly is.

To me, it just feels like ROH wanted to have a champion that they could put on the cover of a teenage girl magazine.