Yoshi Tatsu's new name in NJPW

[Defrost]

Yoshitatsu. Seriously.

[Bert]

Can they get away with that?

[Defrost]

They're gonna try

[kangus]

and when he turns heel his name will be Yo$hitat$u

[Defrost]

His first match in will be against AJ Styles

[Nash Diesel]

I remember when Ax from Demolition left the WWF and he started calling himself Axis the Demolisher. Then there's Nick Dinsmore, who after being released awhile ago he started calling himself U-Gene.

[Mark Hammer]

Lol Japanese rasslin.

[Tainted Eclipse]

If Yoshi Tatsu is positioned above Ishii on the card consistently I'm going to be mad.

[takerson]

It's weird to think that this guy who's never proven to be much more than a jobber... a guy I've sat within 3 tables of at McDonald's many random times.... will be in a top match on an NJPW PPV card. :lol:

[Cewsh]

I don't know about top match.

His gimmick now is apparently "The Bullet Club Hunter" which is a pretty great gimmick for someone to have to endear himself with the crowd right now. The question is where he stands with the new group Tanahashi formed for this same purpose.

Either way, dude is wrestling Jarrett at Wrestle Kingdom.

[takerson]

I figured one on one with AJ was a top match? AJ just lost the World Title, right?

I would assume he'll be part of it?

Ewwww. :(

[Kev]

Yoshitatsu?



http://cdn29.elitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/doge.jpg

Such creativity. Much variation. So different. Wow.


Eh. I found him pretty shite in the ring anyway. Worked lighter than Lance Storm.

[Cewsh]

I figured one on one with AJ was a top match? AJ just lost the World Title, right?

I would assume he'll be part of it?

Ewwww. :(

AJ may be facing Nakamura. He COULD face Yoshitatsu, but even if he did, it wouldn't be one of the top 3 matches.

[mth]

His ring name in FCW was Yoshitatsu before it was Yoshi Tatsu.

[Defrost]

AJ may be facing Nakamura. He COULD face Yoshitatsu, but even if he did, it wouldn't be one of the top 3 matches.

It's probably semi main or third from the top on the next ppv after Shinsuke vs Shibata and maybe Tana/Ibushi vs Okada/Yoshi-Hashi

[Psycho666Soldier]

AJ may be facing Nakamura. He COULD face Yoshitatsu, but even if he did, it wouldn't be one of the top 3 matches.

You know AJ vs. Yoshi is already booked for the next PPV, right?

[Cewsh]

You know AJ vs. Yoshi is already booked for the next PPV, right?

I do. I thought we were talking about WK.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I think takey was talking about the fact that he's booked against Styles at Power Struggle since he said he's happy to see him booked in a top match, not potentially booked.

[Cewsh]

Ah gotcha. That makes more sense.

[Defrost]

Two matches. Two jobs.

[The Rosk]

Broken neck. Is that three now from the Styles Clash? As much as it is the fault of the person taking it, what the fuck is the point if it keeps happening.

[Clive Plasma]

Apparently it's down to tucking your head in. All three instances is where someone has tucked their head in, by following their instincts, but has resulted in a broken neck.

He's been doing the move for so long, but perhaps it is time to ban it.

[Clive Plasma]

Found a GIF of it. Looks painful...

http://giant.gfycat.com/HeartyAlienatedHind.gif

Or here: http://www.gfycat.com/HeartyAlienatedHind

[JP]

He is turning into a parody of Snitsky at this point.

[Nash Diesel]

Yep that's exactly what happened to Roderick Strong earlier this year. It's definitely one of the more dangerous moves and this is an issue that's been going on for years with the Styles Clash. Ban it? Maybe.

[Craig T. Nelson]

Styles should probably stop using it if his opponents can't take the move properly.

[Cold_Hearted_Truth]

Yeah i'm doubting we'll see AJ ever do the move again. As easy as it is to say it's a simple move to take, it's instinctual to want to tuck your head on it.

[Ringo]

Lionheart wrote this...


"I'll make the assumption he sees this somehow so please read and share... I'd like to openly address him...

Firstly, I hope things are well for you and family... I wanted to write you because I feel it's important someone speak up in a more formal and diplomatic manner, as opposed to simply throwing abuse via anonymous social media ramblings...

Here's the truth... The move is not directly dangerous... It's a simple move in principle... Arms and legs locked, you fall forward, guy looks up/back, easy... The Styles Clash 'on paper' is a fairly safe and basic process...

That said, what is dangerous, is the instinctual reaction of your opponent... The wrestler taking the move, who like any wrestler taking any move, their safety and welfare is the priority...

Without ANY injuries, it could be argued that the mechanics of the move are unnatural, and injury could easily happen due to the physical restrictions and instinctual habits of the recipient... The numbers now are surely too great to even call it an argument?

I'm more than happy to be educated on my statistics, but there can be no move in wrestling history that carries more (documented) serious and potentially career threatening injuries than this... This, is what makes the move dangerous, whether indirectly or not...

Thus far, more specifically the last 12 months, several performers, actual experienced athletes, have been injured with this, 2 of them now with broken necks... The question I want to put to you honestly is, what does it take? What will it actually take for you to stop using this move, at the very least on an independent level, with people not necessarily exposed to the experience of working with you and taking the move semi regularly... How honestly will you feel the day you receive the news that the man you just wrestled has a broken neck and will never walk again? Statistically, that day is coming... It is a mathematical certainty...

I take this opportunity now, to openly and publicly beg you... Please, stop using the Styles Clash... You are unquestionably one of the greatest in ring performers of our time, I truly believe that... But the time is now, to put all pride, ego, blame aside, and acknowledge that irrelevant of fault, circumstance or anything else, the move is a direct risk and a danger to the safety and well being of your fellow wrestler...

All the best.

A"

[Nash Diesel]

AJ has a shit ton of cool moves, the Spiral Tap being his other main finisher. Plus he has that sweet pump handle gut buster, the springboard flying forearm, even the Pele kick.

[The Rosk]

He could take on any move and announce that he is doing so. And it will be fine. The Khali Chop is now going.

[Cewsh]

Yeah i'm doubting we'll see AJ ever do the move again. As easy as it is to say it's a simple move to take, it's instinctual to want to tuck your head on it.

Then why has this only happened 5 times?

[Nash Diesel]

He broken necks 5 different times with this move? Jesus. I didn't even think he broke Roddy's neck, but damn if you're saying that 5 times this scenario has happened then that's probably a good sign to not use a move.

[JP]

I am solidly in agreement with ND and vehemently disagree with Cewsh.

Kansas, this is not.

[Mills]

I think you have to consider the talent AJ is working with too. There's a skill difference between guys like Kurt Angle and Yoshi Farsi, for example

[Nash Diesel]

I can even remember a few times DDP doing that front slam piledriver that looks almost just like the Styles Clash and the guy taking the move would tuck their head instead of just staying in the position they are in and they'd get dumped on their neck. I know there were times in the past where AJ would do the move, the guy would get folded on his neck, and we'd be like holy shit is that dude ok?? If the boys aren't able to take the move properly and you've broken 5 peoples' necks doing the move, then it's time to either put it on the backburner and only use it with people who can take the move properly or just don't do it. It's like the tombstone or the standard piledriver, in the WWE, that move is banned and/or only used by those that are trusted enough to not only execute it but talent that can take it properly as well. And even then, I mean shit I'm still wondering how Daniel Bryan's neck got fucked up. Was it due to Kane's 3 Tombstones? Or was it before? I never really heard what was the cause.

[Clive Plasma]

I mean shit I'm still wondering how Daniel Bryan's neck got fucked up. Was it due to Kane's 3 Tombstones? Or was it before? I never really heard what was the cause.

I too would like to know this. It can't be due to the tombstones, I always thought he was already fucked and then they did the Tombstones to write him off?

[Hero!]

Piledriver was actually banned by the NWA back in the 70's. I thought it was a WWE thing, but I say this on the old wrestling pics twitter recently:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/95393cc8f6b8f7a3ab375483e81a761a/tumblr_nefelukzsN1qhvhyoo1_500.jpg

[Nash Diesel]

Those rules are fucking hilarious. No Karate chops lol. No judo chops? I didnt think that was even a real thing considering to my knowledge, theres no striking in judo.

Jerry Lawler using the illegal piledriver was a key to his success both as a heel and a face.

As it pertains to AJ like I said, if the talent cant take the move properly and its for sure a dangerous move, its gotta go. I think Styles is one of if not the best wrestler out there, he has to realize its turning into a serious issue. The fact hes hurt at least 3 wrestlers since leaving TNA is scary considering we never heard people getting hurt prior (at least to my knowledge)

[Cewsh]

I too would like to know this. It can't be due to the tombstones, I always thought he was already fucked and then they did the Tombstones to write him off?

It was wear and tear, not one move. He has nerve damage, not just a broken neck.

[Nash Diesel]

I thought the nerve damage was due to his broken neck. So what was the straw that broke the goats neck?

[Cewsh]

There was no straw dude, that's not always how it works.

Though, with that said, the headbutt off the forklift probably didn't help.

[Cold_Hearted_Truth]

probably a good sign to not use a move.

Yep.

Can't see him using it again. As I think you alluded prior, there's other finishers he can use.

[chatty]

Damn that looked painful. Dunno what the fuck Yoshi was doing putting his head down instead of back though, its pretty obvious which way you should be tucking your head so as not to get fucked up.

[McBain]

If I remember right, AJ also did it to Kazarian a fair while ago in TNA.

[Cewsh]

Yep. About a decade ago.

[McBain]

Has AJ made any public comments about any of these injuries?

[Version 6]

Are people seriously arguing that 5 broken necks is not enough broken necks to ban a particular move?

[Cewsh]

Hasn't stopped the powerbomb.

A broken neck is a broken neck and that's horrible, but I thought it was just two broken necks, not 5.

[Defrost]

He's done the move thousands of times. A couple of mistakes, by the people taking the move not the one performing the move, is not enough to ban it.

[Version 6]

Hasn't stopped the powerbomb.

A broken neck is a broken neck and that's horrible, but I thought it was just two broken necks, not 5.

I thought you said it had happened five times. That's probably me misinterpreting your meaning though.

[Cewsh]

Broken necks are a terrifying, but constantly present reality in wrestling. Hayabusa broke his neck doing a Lionsault, just like he, Sabu and Jericho have done thousands of times safely. People have broken their necks on powerbombs, moonsaults, shooting stars, etc. But the biggest question is this.

Should the Undertaker stop doing the Tombstone?

[Cewsh]

I thought you said it had happened five times. That's probably me misinterpreting your meaning though.

5 times someone sold it in this way. Twice resulted in a broken neck that i'm aware of.

[The Rosk]

Broken necks are a terrifying, but constantly present reality in wrestling. Hayabusa broke his neck doing a Lionsault, just like he, Sabu and Jericho have done thousands of times safely. People have broken their necks on powerbombs, moonsaults, shooting stars, etc. But the biggest question is this.

Should the Undertaker stop doing the Tombstone?

If you break your neck doing a lionsault, a moonsault or a shooting star, then you are doing it to yourself. A Styles Clash is your weight breaking someone else's neck. What is the point in keeping the move when there are thousands out there and this keeps happening. Explain to me. Will it take ten broken necks before you say Rosk you are right.

[Cewsh]

If you break your neck doing a lionsault, a moonsault or a shooting star, then you are doing it to yourself. A Styles Clash is your weight breaking someone else's neck. What is the point in keeping the move when there are thousands out there and this keeps happening. Explain to me. Will it take ten broken necks before you say Rosk you are right.

I agree about moonsaults, lionsaults and shooting stars. But I also listed powerbombs and tombstones, which are both extremely common in wrestling today and have broken necks and crippled people before. The Styles Clash is his signature move and has been for over a decade, through thousands of uses. Honestly, I don't think I heard about this happening between Kazarian in 2003ish to Styles' return to Ring of Honor in 2013. It may well be that indy guys and Japanese talent just aren't as prepared to take the bump, but mostly I think that this is a heavy overreaction. Frankly, yes, it would take more than two cases to convince me that this is more than a statistical anomaly.

Of all the moves in wrestling, it kinds of stuns me that THIS is the one that people are taking a stand against. Really? Not the out of control top rope piledrivers or flaming tables or burning hammers or whatever? All those moves which intentionally and unpredictably land inexperienced wrestlers or their neck every day. This one is easy to avoid becoming a victim of. These few people were unable to. It's rotten but there it is.

[The Rogerer]

It's a bigger problem when you do to a more independent promotion with a more diverse roster, who need some preparation or experience to be able to take such an irregular move. I think it's more likely to happen on the indies and that's the problem.

[McBain]

I don't see how by saying the Styles Clash should be banned that somehow means that people don't think that crazy top rope piledrivers shouldn't too. :wtf:

[MikeHunt]

He's not just broken some SLARE like level jobbers necks. We are talking about lionheart who's been at the top of the uk indie scene for years and yoshitatsu employed by wwe.

[JP]

Should the Undertaker stop doing the Tombstone?

How many necks has The Undertaker broken using the Tombstone?

I cannot believe you are being this blind and stubborn about this.

[JP]

I agree about moonsaults, lionsaults and shooting stars. But I also listed powerbombs and tombstones, which are both extremely common in wrestling today and have broken necks and crippled people before. The Styles Clash is his signature move and has been for over a decade, through thousands of uses. Honestly, I don't think I heard about this happening between Kazarian in 2003ish to Styles' return to Ring of Honor in 2013. It may well be that indy guys and Japanese talent just aren't as prepared to take the bump, but mostly I think that this is a heavy overreaction. Frankly, yes, it would take more than two cases to convince me that this is more than a statistical anomaly.

Of all the moves in wrestling, it kinds of stuns me that THIS is the one that people are taking a stand against. Really? Not the out of control top rope piledrivers or flaming tables or burning hammers or whatever? All those moves which intentionally and unpredictably land inexperienced wrestlers or their neck every day. This one is easy to avoid becoming a victim of. These few people were unable to. It's rotten but there it is.

Mate, seriously, what the hell?

"Yes, somebody's life is going to have to be put in danger a few more times before I reconsider."

And then presenting a false either/or choice.

This is your gamergate.

[McBain]

Taxi for Cewsh.

[The Rosk]

I agree about moonsaults, lionsaults and shooting stars. But I also listed powerbombs and tombstones, which are both extremely common in wrestling today and have broken necks and crippled people before. The Styles Clash is his signature move and has been for over a decade, through thousands of uses. Honestly, I don't think I heard about this happening between Kazarian in 2003ish to Styles' return to Ring of Honor in 2013. It may well be that indy guys and Japanese talent just aren't as prepared to take the bump, but mostly I think that this is a heavy overreaction. Frankly, yes, it would take more than two cases to convince me that this is more than a statistical anomaly.

Of all the moves in wrestling, it kinds of stuns me that THIS is the one that people are taking a stand against. Really? Not the out of control top rope piledrivers or flaming tables or burning hammers or whatever? All those moves which intentionally and unpredictably land inexperienced wrestlers or their neck every day. This one is easy to avoid becoming a victim of. These few people were unable to. It's rotten but there it is.

Styles fought the same people for 8 bloody years straight. Now he's fighting others not used to him it's happening. No surprises there. Come on mate. it's just a move. Can it.

[Fanny Batter]

He should just use it as his "death" move a la the Burning Hammer, to people who are willing and prepared to take it of course. Sell it as the neck breaker. "Ban" it. It's fucking pro wrestling, if storylines can spout from actual deaths then they can get a bit of juice out of this.

[Hlebsfall]

I'd ban it because the risk far outweighs the end product. Let's be honest its a pretty underwhelming looking move. At least with a top rope spinning piledriver or whatever, it looks impressive.

[The Rosk]

Cewsh mate can you just pull some strings and get it banned pls? Thx x

[Cewsh]

The best part about this is that I really am just trying to argue the other side because people are getting majorly carried away here. On the podcast this week I talked a lot more about this, and I fully see both sides of the discussion. I just don't get waving pitchforks around over it.

[Cewsh]

It's a bigger problem when you do to a more independent promotion with a more diverse roster, who need some preparation or experience to be able to take such an irregular move. I think it's more likely to happen on the indies and that's the problem.

That is absolutely true. I fully agree.

[The Rosk]

The best part about this is that I really am just trying to argue the other side because people are getting majorly carried away here. On the podcast this week I talked a lot more about this, and I fully see both sides of the discussion. I just don't get waving pitchforks around over it.

Why is that the best part. I don't understand how.

Necks are being broken.

[Cewsh]

Why is that the best part. I don't understand how.

Necks are being broken.

This really isn't a hill that i'm ready to die on. If he stops using it, I support that and fully understand why. If he doesn't, then I understand that too.

[chatty]

I wouldn't ban it but maybes have him use it with guys he can trust to take it. As someone said use it as a move he pulls out only in the biggest matches and give him another finisher till then. Thats what they sort of did with Taker for a good while when he used the last ride and elevated the Choke Slam and started pulling the Tombstoen out at Mania and other such big matches.

Sometimes in wrestling things just go wrong, in this instance Tatsu fucked up his positioning on the move. Hell you had a ten year plus vet who had worked with some of the greatest wrestlers of all time consistently completely fuck up a tombstone on Austin and I mean get the move completely wrong and the daft thing is neither never ever used the fucking move.

[ECDUB]

So this is the third instance of a badly taken Styles Clash this year, correct (Yoshi, Lionheart, Roderick Strong)? My initial thought is AJ is getting sloppy. Whether that is true, I don't know. I haven't seen his matches since he left TNA. However, I do think that is a very concerning aspect though, the three badly taken Styles Clashes within a short period of time. Like others have already said here, AJ Styles doesn't need the Styles Clash to be "the Phenomenal One."

[Glen]

Lads I've had a word with AJ and he's not going to use it anymore.

K.

[Rip]

Good lad, excellent use of your exulted position.

[Hero!]

Lads I've had a word with AJ and he's not going to use it anymore.

K.

Do you know any wrestlers ?

[Glen]

Only AJ Styles mate.

Went to school together innit.

[MikeHunt]

I'm waiting for a clang

[The Rosk]

.......

[Glen]

You're learning.

[Version 6]

Of all the moves in wrestling, it kinds of stuns me that THIS is the one that people are taking a stand against.

Um, why? This broken neck thing literally just happened and that's why we are talking about it at the moment. That's how discussion works mate. It's contemporaneous to events that occur.


Really? Not the out of control top rope piledrivers or flaming tables or burning hammers or whatever? All those moves which intentionally and unpredictably land inexperienced wrestlers or their neck every day. This one is easy to avoid becoming a victim of. These few people were unable to. It's rotten but there it is.

Well, I think those moves are all pretty stupid too.

Bret Hart summed up my position best in his book. I can't remember the quote verbatim, but the general sentiment was that wrestling is a "work", so what's the bloody point doing things that actually do hurt? I mean the great advantage of being a pretend fighter as opposed to a real fighter should really be that you don't actually have to hurt yourself.

That's why I've never really been interested in "strong style" and I've always found it ridiculous that wrestlers like Jeff Jarrett or Lance Storm were criticised for being "too light". So their pretend fighting doesn't hurt enough? And that's a criticism? I've always found that odd. I mean do we criticise dancers doing the tango for not having actual sex on stage?

[The Rogerer]

You're better having a missed punch than one that looks rubbish. 15 years on I still think about how lame Lance Storm's chairshot to the back was at Barely Legal 97. Lance Storm has a lot of problems anyway.

If we're going to talk about anything here, the Styles Clash is a stupid looking move. Indyriffic nonsense.

[McBain]

I enjoy that Cewsh has taken CM Punk's "hill to die on" turn of phrase and included it in his argument on a message board.

[Cewsh]

I enjoy that Cewsh has taken CM Punk's "hill to die on" turn of phrase and included it in his argument on a message board.

I wasn't aware that CM Punk uses it. I just really like using that phrase in these situations.

[Hero!]

Punk used it a lot on Colt's show this week. I'm not sure if McBain isn't aware that it's a popular phrase or if he's just ribbing.

[McBain]

Bit of both. It is quite a noticeable coincidence considering how much Punk used it.

[Cewsh]

Punk used it a lot on Colt's show this week. I'm not sure if McBain isn't aware that it's a popular phrase or if he's just ribbing.


Bit of both. It is quite a noticeable coincidence considering how much Punk used it.

I actually haven't listened to that podcast yet. Just a coincidence.

[McBain]

I actually haven't listened to that podcast yet. Just a coincidence.

Okay, I'm not sure I believe you but THIS ISN'T MY HILL TO DIE ON.

[Bill Casey]

Look what I found from the year that was last...

http://s24.postimg.org/3ykn1ov8l/cewsh.jpg

Cewsh does indeed legitimately love hill dying...

[McBain]

I'm sure glad I didn't decide to die on this hill.

[Hero!]

Apparently Kojima took the move wrong now as well. Doesn't appear to have a broken neck, but Yoshi didn't realize his was broke for a couple of weeks either.

[Mills]

The picture looks weird too, did AJ fall backwards?

[Mills]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B3q0m37CMAAlyc5.png:small

the pic, FYI

[JP]

Right, are we now at the point where we can all pretty much agree that the move isn't worth the risk?

[MikeHunt]

Not my hill to die on

[Version 6]

Right, are we now at the point where we can all pretty much agree that the move isn't worth the risk?

No, that's only 3 broken necks and I believe Cewsh requires at least 11 broken necks.

[Judas Iscariot]

I don't know how broken necks work, but how do you walk around and not realize your neck in broken for a couple weeks?

Wouldn't your head, like, be dangling around loosely or something with no neck to support it?

Someone please explain this to me.

[mth]

Your neck is more than just bones, you've got a crapload of rather strong muscles in there, too.

[JP]

I don't know how broken necks work, but how do you walk around and not realize your neck in broken for a couple weeks?

Wouldn't your head, like, be dangling around loosely or something with no neck to support it?

Someone please explain this to me.

I think I'm correct in saying that the term a broken neck would apply for catastrophic breakage resulting in death on one end of the scale and a hairline fracture of a vertebrae on the other.

[Judas Iscariot]

Thanks to both of you for totally clearing that up.

[Judas Iscariot]

NOT

[JP]

I like how it took you a full minute to add that 'not'.

[Hero!]

I don't know how broken necks work, but how do you walk around and not realize your neck in broken for a couple weeks?

Wouldn't your head, like, be dangling around loosely or something with no neck to support it?

Someone please explain this to me.

Austin wrestled on a broken neck for years before taking the time off. Angle won a couple of gold medals with a broken neck.

[Judas Iscariot]

WITH A BROKEN FREAKING NECK?????

[The Rogerer]

Yoshi Tatsu's new name in NJPWNeckerbroker Glory

[Judas Iscariot]

What the fuck does that even mean

[The_Mike]

A pun on Knickerbocker Glory, a large ice-cream sundae enjoyed by Brits and Australians I believe.