#GamerGate

[Bert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5-51PfwI3M

It's really a shame no one wants to cover this.

Feminists can do no wrong even if they're lying about being harassed, fucking kotaku journalists, their bosses, and who knows who else to get ahead in their career.

This is the problem I have with females in the gaming industry, Rogerer and Pete Cash.

What is GamerGate?

http://i.imgur.com/KVYBXyH.png

[The Rogerer]

Why don't you go and read TMZ?

I don't know what there is to cover in this. Two people being a hot mess and kotaku is a load of shite as usual. From what I gathered in this story, there was one woman and about ten men acting like idiots, but women amirite? The guy originally posting all this is a mess, as is Zoe. She's had all her personal info exposed, but more must be done. Had you even heard of her before this?

If you genuinely want more exposure on this case then I'm worried about you. If you just want to annoy me then carry on, I'm only slightly worried about your weird grudge but it's okay.

[Bert]

She's had all her personal info exposed, but more must be done. Had you even heard of her before this?

If you genuinely want more exposure on this case then I'm worried about you. If you just want to annoy me then carry on, I'm only slightly worried about your weird grudge but it's okay.

More should be done because she's using this to play the victim. She faked "hacking" herself to gain more sympathy. Now she's got Adam Sessler tweeting out her patreon page (you give money to people while they do nothing) and claiming that he's "watching hack attempts live", which simply isn't possible. This whole thing is a fucking farce and I'm beyond sick of this attention whore, literal whore, using her "but I have a vagina so you must defend me" excuse constantly. She's even deleting reviews about her "game" on Steam that don't even mention her by name or this whole fiasco because she simply can't handle negative criticism. This is new feminism where it's not about equality but about being put on a pedestal and treated differently because you're a girl, along with anyone who disagrees with you being a misogynist and the white knights are dancing for her like the puppets they are. If it was a man who cheated on his girlfriend and fucked 5 different women including his boss and a Kotaku editor then Anita Sarkeesian would be calling for his head.

http://gabrielaknight.wordpress.com/

This is a good read.

Also, Phil Fish (who spent a night insulting gamers and defending Zoe Quinn for doing nothing wrong) is now claiming he was "hacked" by the "head mod of /V/"
http://i.imgur.com/Yt6imG7.png
They're not even trying with this frame job anymore.

[Alf]

More should be done because she's using this to play the victim. She faked "hacking" herself to gain more sympathy. Now she's got Adam Sessler tweeting out her patreon page (you give money to people while they do nothing) and claiming that he's "watching hack attempts live", which simply isn't possible. This whole thing is a fucking farce and I'm beyond sick of this attention whore, literal whore, using her "but I have a vagina so you must defend me" excuse constantly. She's even deleting reviews about her "game" on Steam that don't even mention her by name or this whole fiasco because she simply can't handle negative criticism. This is new feminism where it's not about equality but about being put on a pedestal and treated differently because you're a girl, along with anyone who disagrees with you being a misogynist and the white knights are dancing for her like the puppets they are. If it was a man who cheated on his girlfriend and fucked 5 different women including his boss and a Kotaku editor then Anita Sarkeesian would be calling for his head.

http://gabrielaknight.wordpress.com/

This is a good read.

Also, Phil Fish (who spent a night insulting gamers and defending Zoe Quinn for doing nothing wrong) is now claiming he was "hacked" by the "head mod of /V/"
http://i.imgur.com/Yt6imG7.png
They're not even trying with this frame job anymore.

Storm in a teacup.

[The Rogerer]

More should be done because she's using this to play the victim. She faked "hacking" herself to gain more sympathy. Now she's got Adam Sessler tweeting out her patreon page (you give money to people while they do nothing) and claiming that he's "watching hack attempts live", which simply isn't possible. This whole thing is a fucking farce and I'm beyond sick of this attention whore, literal whore, using her "but I have a vagina so you must defend me" excuse constantly. She's even deleting reviews about her "game" on Steam that don't even mention her by name or this whole fiasco because she simply can't handle negative criticism. This is new feminism where it's not about equality but about being put on a pedestal and treated differently because you're a girl, along with anyone who disagrees with you being a misogynist and the white knights are dancing for her like the puppets they are. If it was a man who cheated on his girlfriend and fucked 5 different women including his boss and a Kotaku editor then Anita Sarkeesian would be calling for his head.

http://gabrielaknight.wordpress.com/

This is a good read.

Also, Phil Fish (who spent a night insulting gamers and defending Zoe Quinn for doing nothing wrong) is now claiming he was "hacked" by the "head mod of /V/"
http://i.imgur.com/Yt6imG7.png
They're not even trying with this frame job anymore.What should be done? Ignore her, you idiot. Ask yourself why you're dragged into this. The problem isn't really feminism, by the way, as much as you want to hate it. She is a massive narcissist. This is tabloid trash, the younger internet generation claims to be above all that but they swallow it better than everybody. Why are you spreading this? if you want to talk about it go to reddit with the rest of the MRA and paedos. I don't know what result would satisfy you. It's all a load of children fighting to me.

[Bert]

I'm dragged into this because loads of indie devs are rallying behind her as if she's the victim and the patron saint of indie games. The problem isn't what feminism used to be it's this new form of feminism where women aren't allowed to be critiqued and must be protected at all costs.
http://i.imgur.com/grhcLmL.jpg

The layout of Reddit makes it impossible for me to go there, I can't stand it.

[The Rogerer]

The medium appeals, attracts and fosters damaged and immature people. The whole things been a mess from the first second, when I started to read about this stuff, but I did what I could not to dig into it because it's a headache. The problem is that everyone's busy trying to make a name for themselves. Twitter, youtube, facebook have conditioned people to act the same way the media does. We're all Fox News Now. People making youtube videos about it because they're desperate to have the scoop. There really is no news here. The flag is feminism but the real battle is ego. I honestly don't believe that the people who appear to go absolutely rabid about people like Sarkesian don't genuinely hate to that level, but they're getting caught up in something. You are too, jesus, calling a fairly irrelevant person a fucking whore and getting het up that something, something, something must be done. She'll already spend the rest of her public life getting shouted at and and abuse thrown so I don't know what more you'd ask for. If you also don't understand why that would rally people to defend her, welcome to earth. People are defending her, picking up the rhetoric and fuelling the machine. People didn't all start caring so much about feminism, they cared that there was a fight going on.

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Just like my complaint about the GOTG trailer wasn't really a feminist issue, but you jumped on feminism like a rabid dog. Do you genuinely think it's a problem?

[The Rogerer]

I see Adam Baldwin is constantly tweeting about it and people are trying to organise protests at PAX. Hope you're happy about that Bert. More has to be done though. That fucking whore cunt bitch whore. Someone has to do something. Are you feeling like Jack Ruby yet?

[The Rogerer]

I mean to be honest bert, I don't feel like you did nearly enough here.

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/WgbaEWj.png

[Bert]

Adam Baldwin is a hero and I really should watch Firefly.

[The Rogerer]

The pussification of america, you get all angry about a cause and a few days later you don't care any more. ADD generation.

Adam Baldwin is a lunkhead and Firefly was rubbish. Chuck was good though.

[Bert]

I care, you've just made it clear you think it's a joke so ill continue arguing with people on Twitter instead of discussing it here. Chuck was good until the last couple of seasons.

[The Rogerer]

Good on you man.

[Bert]

Fuck a duck, bro.

[Kyle_242]

I worry that gaming is going down the same route that sports has gone, where people care more about the drama than the action itself.

[Bert]

http://nastythingssaidabout.wordpress.com/2014/08/26/the-terrible-misogyny-in-the-games-industry/

[Morrison]

is your argument that the online gaming culture in general are melodramatic, violently reactionary weirdos, regardless of what gender they are or what gender they're directing themselves at? or are you really just rallying against women taking advantage of a situation and martyring someone in order to finally get a point out there about their quibbles within said gaming culture?

cause if it's the first, i could get on board with that. if it's the second, it's basically the equivalent of the awesome 'well I'VE experienced discrimination, too' argument from the median white male of america.

[The Rogerer]

I'm sure he was making a well reasoned point about that fucking attention whore literal whore something has to be done. He's still campaigning for more to be done, and I think the only thing you could say is that she hasn't been physically attacked yet, so..

[The Rogerer]

The best irony being that what Bert is talking about, trying to achieve some sort of justice, through the power of the people, fighting battles online... He's a social justice warrior!

[Bert]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20justice%20warrior

[Pete Cash]

No bro you're a social justice warrior too. Just from the other side arguing with strangers on Twitter and demanding "something must be done" lmao have a look at your life mate.

[Pete Cash]

Also like a boring right wing blow hard columnist whinging about his free speech being curtailed while at the same time having his views published in a newspaper does anyone else appreciate that Bert is arguing that you can't criticise women while calling one a whore. You obviously can bro. People might just find you an obnoxious clown.

[The Rogerer]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=social%20justice%20warriorThanks for concurring! You really don't get it? Arguing on forums and going "You really need to watch this youtube documentary, it's very important" about something nobody gives a shit about. Oh and calling me out about 20 times between this and the GotG thread. And completely misunderstanding my argument in there.

[The Rogerer]

Whoops

[Bert]

So this is still about you being mad I have so many steam games?

[The Rogerer]

I probably have more than you. You won't have any more since your brethren are calling you to boycott all bundles and games by EA due to their support of LGBT communities. I'll find the graphic for you but I assume you've already received your action pamphlet.

[Bert]

it's not about boycotting games involving the lgbt community. 4chan donated 13,000 to https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-fine-young-capitalists--2 I don't buy ea games because I hate origin though.

[The Rogerer]

Get with the program
http://i.imgur.com/Kzfb2nz.jpg

[JP]

:lol:

What the actual fuck is that?

[The Rogerer]

I mean, SJW is meant to be a pejorative based on the notion that people are fighting and organising boycotts based on personal issues and putting a load of effort into shit. The US pastime of acting the exact same way as those you oppose is a great one. Bonus points for them being worried about someone being harassed over twitter.

[JP]

Nice article on New Statesman which touches on some of the previous discussions.

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/2014/09/online-abuse-leaked-nudes-and-revenge-porn-nothing-less-terrorism-against-women


Online abuse, leaked nudes and revenge porn: this is nothing less than terrorism against women

The abuse of women on the internet, like the hacking of female celebrities' naked photos, is not just intended to hurt the individuals involved. These are deliberately outrageous acts designed to create a spectacle and to instil fear in a target population - in other words, terrorism.

Two years ago, I wrote about a cultural critic called Anita Sarkeesian, who had appealed on a crowd-funding website for money to make a video series about women in games. She got the cash – she even raised about $150,000 more than she’d asked for – but she also became the subject of a vicious, targeted and relentless online harassment campaign.

That was 26 months ago and – spoiler alert – the abuse is still going on. On 27 August, Sarkeesian posted a screen grab of tweets sent to her, one of which read: “I’m going to go to your apartment at [redacted] and rape you to death. After I’m done, I’ll ram a tire iron up your cunt.” She reported the threats to the police and left her flat to stay with friends.

At the same time, a female games developer – who I will call Z – was also being harassed. After a bad break-up, her ex-boyfriend accused her of cheating on him with a games journalist. An electronic army took up his grievance; she was sent death threats, nude photos of her were dug up and she was accused of “sleeping her way to the top” and “corrupting games journalism”.

The common thread that links these two stories is the swarms of self-appointed internet vigilantes, co-ordinated through sites such as Reddit, an aggregator and discussion forum, and 4chan, the image board that spawned the hacker group Anonymous. “Whenever I see a noticeable uptick in hate and harassment sent my way, there’s almost always an angry Reddit thread somewhere,” Sarkeesian tweeted in July last year.

I find it almost impossible to avoid the trap of talking about Reddit and 4chan as if they were homogeneous places, even though I know they are not. There are parts of Reddit that I love – the “EarthPorn” forum fulfils my need to spend at least ten minutes a week staring at mountains – but also some fairly grim backwaters. The “Killing*Women” forum, for example, does exactly what it says on the tin. I’m sure there are parts of 4chan that are interesting, too, but there’s just too much gore and extreme porn to wade through on the way.

Nonetheless, it’s possible to outline the broad ideologies of the sites. Reddit’s allegiance is to “free speech”; it wasn’t until 2012 that it banned child abuse images. The users of 4chan, meanwhile, are “in it for the lulz” (as the great philosopher Alfred Pennyworth once told Batman, “Some men just want to watch the world burn”).

These codes provide cover for a pastime as old as patriarchy: punishing women who step out of line. The nude photos of female celebrities, including the actress Jennifer Lawrence, were presumably hacked for the lulz – as well as for bitcoins, which a 4channer initially requested in exchange for them. Now it seems that half of Reddit’s users have decided it is their chivalrous duty to find the identity of the 4chan user who hacked the pictures. The other half are busy uploading the photos to the internet every time an image-hosting service removes them.

Somewhere out there, I hope, a psychology student is gathering material for an excellent thesis. In the meantime, something strikes me about both the celebrity photo hack and the harassment of Anita Sarkeesian and Z. This is a form of terrorism. (Sarkeesian agrees: “There is just no other word for it,” she tweeted on 31 August.)

What we are witnessing are deliberately outrageous acts designed to create a spectacle and to instil fear in a target population. Where Osama Bin Laden watched in approval as every news network endlessly replayed the footage of a plane hitting a tower, the hackers and harassers must feel thrilled by all the carefully search-engine-optimised headlines above articles decrying the latest leaked pictures. It is a function of successful terrorism that the media becomes unavoidably complicit in spreading the terror. There is no way to report the story without increasing its potency. We cannot stop looking.

As for the target population, tell me that young women aren’t supposed to look at the harassment of Sarkeesian for being a public figure and get the message: “This could happen to you, you uppity bitch. Watch your mouth.” The leaking of the celebrity nude photos has the same impetus as revenge porn. As the internet heaves under the weight of freely exposed nipples, violation has become a form of titillation. (If you must see an actress’s breasts, may I recommend watching pretty much any 18-rated movie made this year?) Any expression of women’s sexuality moves them into Camp Slut, where they are fair game for punishment and humiliation.

The final link is online radicalisation. In a 2009 study, the law professor Cass Sunstein explored the role that group psychology plays in the radicalisation of jihadis. “Social networks can operate as polarisation machines because they help to confirm and thus amplify people’s antecedent views,” he wrote. He quoted Marc Sageman on al-Qaeda: “The interactivity among a ‘bunch of guys’ acted as an echo chamber, which progressively radicalised them collectively
. . . Now the same process is taking place online.” It would be hard to design a better echo chamber than a tightly knit, insular internet forum. We already know that groups tend to drift to extremes, as members move with the prevailing wind (and moderates leave). Add a dash of alienation and a sprinkle of resentment and you have the perfect crucible for extremist behaviour.

Of course, there is a crucial difference between what has happened to Sarkeesian, to Z and to the female celebrities and revenge porn victims and the reaction to more conventional kinds of terrorism. I bet you no one involved in any of the former will be put under a control order or have their passport taken away. It’s only women living in fear, after all.

[Pete Cash]

Lmao I hope the police don't arrest Bert.

[Pete Cash]

All jokes aside why the fuck does she make people so angry. I read columns by right wing columnists that I disagree with on every premise and I don't fly off the handle. People might disagree with you in life. Grow up nerds.

[The Rogerer]

I donated £5 or something towards her videos whenever she announced the kickstarter and a load of losers decided to try and instantly raze her off the earth. Their shitiness amused me. Of course I've been barricading my windows ever since as I am a known activist (RIP)

[JP]

Was a bit disappointed with her latest couple of videos covering Women as Background Decoration. Didn't make its points anywhere near as well as the Damsel in Distress series - which was very, very good - and some of the videos shown as examples were uncomfortably close to being willfully misleading in terms of context.

I think it's a worthwhile endeavour and she has a lot of interesting things to say and points to make, she just left herself open to attack in a way which could distract from what she's actually trying to say, which is a shame.

[The Rogerer]

Some of them were a bit rubbish, some are better, and they're too po faced and she might be a bit of a narcissist, but the response is the real thing to see. Losers.

[The_Mike]

Well that was a nice relaxing weekend. I think I'll have a look at the video game news.

Oh for fuck sake, back to the lake I go.

Basically I agree with Rogerer (shocker!) and JP. I've only watched some of Sarkeesian's videos because, to be honest, they're pretty hit and miss in terms of execution and sometimes they seem to be a bit reaching. I'm not a huge fan of the stuff she actually produces but am a huge fan of the fact the work is being done and the discussion is out there. And a discussion is really the goal, often she's not directly trying to say "this is a bad thing and these are bad people who did it", but just ask the question. "Why do you never see men in thongs in the background of video games?" is a fair question, even if the answer isn't necessarily "because sexism". Though usually it is. Anyway as a writer I'm grateful to her for introducing me to the concept of the magic pixie dream girl, because I was leaning on that a bit too much. She ruined Garden State for me, though, so she needs to be hung, drawn and quartered. Or I could have a mature response and go "eh, I still like it, even as I acknowledge the issues it has"...

Anyway, what the fuck is with the reaction that leads to someone calling the police and leaving their house because they fear for their life? Jesus Christ, I think Ann Coulter is one of the worst people on the planet and I'd never think to threaten her, and she advocates shit that gets people killed or leaves children to starve. What kind of person thinks "oh you don't like how women are portrayed in games? Well you need to die!"? Is that a real feeling? I suspect the Zoe Quinn palava is an insight into how much of a game the entire thing is. People were just waiting for a misstep so they could pounce, with glee and relish, on one of them feminists. The 'other side' gave them an opening and they can't not take it. It's politics, basically, and I suspect (and hope) that for many this isn't genuine feeling but a strategic proxy war. Do that many people hate half the planet that much, or are they just fighting for their perceived side and sniping at the other side because we've always been at war with Eurasia?

[Bert]

A guys dick pics leak and it's no big deal. Pics of a girls tits leak and it's terrorism. Okay.

[The Rogerer]

Did you see some leaked dick pics? I don't go on those sorts of forums hoyoooo

[Morrison]

A guys dick pics leak and it's no big deal. Pics of a girls tits leak and it's terrorism. Okay.

hyperbolic, sure, but ignore the sensationalism being used to get hits and attention, and take in the core argument.

[Bert]

and sometimes they seem to be a bit reaching.

Sometimes? Understatement of the goddamn year.

[Bert]

hyperbolic, sure, but ignore the sensationalism being used to get hits and attention, and take in the core argument.

It's not as simple as "ignore the sensationalism", saying it's terrorism is dumb. Just like that idiot comparing Zoe Quinn being harassed to ISIS beheading people was really fucking dumb.

If they want to make an argument then they should make a logical one. There's no need for this over dramatic bullshit and I'm not going to entertain their thoughts until they can frame them in a reasonable way.

[Morrison]

Sometimes? Understatement of the goddamn year.

nah.

[Morrison]

If they want to make an argument then they should make a logical one. There's no need for this over dramatic bullshit and I'm not going to entertain their thoughts until they can frame them in a reasonable way.

well aren't you a spiteful little child.

logical arguments have been made for decades, and yet there's still people threatening these women in dramatic fashion over nothing. seriously man, get a fucking grip.

[Bert]

People get "threatened" every day for fucking everything.

[Bert]

nah.

yah.

[Bert]

Westboro gets threatened too and they have equally dumb views.

[Morrison]

People get "threatened" every day for fucking everything.

you really do have no clue.

[Bert]

I'm not giving Anita the benefit of the doubt. She's too much of a cunt for me to do that.

She would make up a story for more views in a heartbeat.

[Atty]

A guys dick pics leak and it's no big deal. Pics of two little tits leak and everyone loses their minds.

Fixed.

[Bert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPIu3sDkEw

[Pete Cash]

She has done critical reviews of other media before. Why does she need to be a gamer to do critical analysis of video games you child. The very fact gamers fly off the handle at what is realistically pretty mild stuff says more about them than AS. Grow up Bert.

[Bert]

Because she lies about it. It's about character. Or lack thereof.

[Bert]

If "growing up" means letting people get away with lying for attention and going against the values they falsely represent themselves with then call me Peter Pan.

[Pete Cash]

Responding like a huge dumb baby makes AS look like the sensible reasoned adult. Is that how you want gamers perceived like retarded children because that's that's what's happening. You guys won't win by flying off the handle with dumb threats.

[Pete Cash]

Again her criticism is pretty mild stuff. If you want video games to be taken seriously then this is part of the territory. Other media has been looked at from every perspective under the sun. You can find analysis from heaps of philosophies on books/film/etc but a feminist view on gaming which was pretty easy going sends you loser nerds over the edge. The fact she makes you guys so angry is fucking hilarious.

[Bert]

Either you don't get it or you're just trolling either way I'm going to go play video games now. Because I actually like them.

[Morrison]

Because she lies about it. It's about character. Or lack thereof.


If "growing up" means letting people get away with lying for attention and going against the values they falsely represent themselves with then call me Peter Pan.

blah blah. like mike said, it's politics. if she came out from the get-go and stated she wasn't a big gamer, she'd get the same exact abuse, despite any validity of her arguments, all while being told 'you don't understand, you're not a gamer, who are you to talk/judge.' your whole issue is petty.

[Pete Cash]

Either you don't get it or you're just trolling either way I'm going to go play video games now. Because I actually like them.

Other media is criticised from all sorts of perspectives. A perverts guide to cinema for example is an examination of film from zizek's interpretation of psychoanalytical film theory. Gamers have spent seemingly decades crying about games not being accepted as art and as soon as someone applies a bit of critical theory to the platform gamers fly off the fucking handle. This was seriously baby level of critical examination.

[Morrison]

but she doesn't even like video games, pete! and pretends she does! we shouldn't stand for such injustice. the stereotypical and mysognistic portrayals of women within the games themselves and the industry in general can be addressed later. what's really important is this chick lied about liking video games to make a point and invoke discussion.

[The Rogerer]

Haha another shitty youtube documentary bert? Oh she isn't a gamer is she? Dave Meltzer isn't a wrestler.

Video games are full of absolutely puerile content from top to bottom. I play them in spite of that, not because of it. You can give of all the ad hominem shit you want, if you time travelled back and killed Anita Sarkesian in the womb... guess what... games would still be created by a bunch of mouth breathing geeks and cynical marketing men. It's not her fault they're so stupid. What has she diminished?

If you want to go down that road then I have made and released video games, can you say the same Bert, do you have to bow before me?

[The Rogerer]

Oh, the funniest about this now is that Bert and the other gamergates are creating fake twitter accounts with pictures of women and black people to disguise the fact they're all white men.

http://i.imgur.com/tJJng8H.png

Good luck "presenting yourselves as normal people"

[Atty]

I want a black twitter

[Bert]

https://twitter.com/CHSommers

I'm sure this lady is fake too. Right?

http://i.imgur.com/a6tbyZO.jpg

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

https://twitter.com/saramayhew
http://i.imgur.com/7040jlK.jpg

http://www.gamesreviews.com/news/09/christina-hoff-sommers-weighs-gamergate-run-gawker-journalist/
http://i.imgur.com/meJzKrl.png

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/01/Lying-Greedy-Promiscuous-Feminist-Bullies-are-Tearing-the-Video-Game-Industry-Apart
https://twitter.com/nero
http://i.imgur.com/3cEtUtz.png

http://i.imgur.com/J86BfjH.png

http://i.imgur.com/FV37iVT.png

http://i.imgur.com/g74uuj7.png

[Bert]

Haha another shitty youtube documentary bert? Oh she isn't a gamer is she? Dave Meltzer isn't a wrestler.

A correct comparison would be "Dave Meltzer doesn't even like wrestling."


Video games are full of absolutely puerile content from top to bottom. I play them in spite of that, not because of it. You can give of all the ad hominem shit you want, if you time travelled back and killed Anita Sarkesian in the womb... guess what... games would still be created by a bunch of mouth breathing geeks and cynical marketing men. It's not her fault they're so stupid. What has she diminished?

I really think it's a shame you feel this way. #GamerGuilt


If you want to go down that road then I have made and released video games, can you say the same Bert, do you have to bow before me?
That's not even what I was talking about so I'm very let down by this argument. Usually your rebuttal at least addresses WHAT I WAS ACTUALLY SAYING.

[Bert]

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/-NotYourShield-Hashtag-Shows-Multi-Cultural-Support-GamerGate-67119.html

Look at all of these fake twitter accounts using the #NotYourShield hashtag!

https://twitter.com/FartToContinue
https://twitter.com/LibertarianBlue
https://twitter.com/alexlionh
https://twitter.com/lizzyf620
https://twitter.com/_watsu
https://twitter.com/ebilmeeki
https://twitter.com/NateTweetsToYou
https://twitter.com/Nero
https://twitter.com/_icze4r
https://twitter.com/mundanematt
https://twitter.com/ApparentlyCati
https://twitter.com/YitanLi
https://twitter.com/CandaceMcCarty
https://twitter.com/jayd3fox
https://twitter.com/thenekonomicon
https://twitter.com/Platinum_Panda
https://twitter.com/IvyTwisted
https://twitter.com/JesseCox
https://twitter.com/acesrhigh
https://twitter.com/j_millerworks
And there's plenty more I just don't feel like it's worth the time to link them all.

http://i.imgur.com/fBxOZhZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/sAT9Cjz.png

Almost makes me want to buy an Xbox One. Almost.

[Pete Cash]

Hello Bert.

Gamers for ages have moaned about how the mainstream treats their hobby like it's for dumb babies instead of serious media like tv/film/books/etc. As soon as the mainstream starts treating it like it's an actual artistic platform by applying critical thought gamers fly off the handle. Why is this ?

This is how proper art is treated. People into books don't have a reputation for going mental every time a feminist does a critical study of literature.

[Pete Cash]

I'm also not sure why one needs to like games to apply critical thought. Does she not play the games ? Is she simply reviewing from the box art. You can review stuff even if you aren't a fan of the medium.

[JP]

Anita Sarkeesian doesn't need to be a gamer to offer valid criticisms of the genre.

Even if we accept the notion that she has lied about her fandom of gaming, that in no way diminishes the points she makes.

Ignore her. Forget about her. Just look at the arguments she puts across and judge them on their validity.

I dislike how I see she takes videos out of context. It is counter-productive. But look past that, look at the wider point she is making. And she makes valid and interesting arguments.

[JP]

"Try growing up gay sweetheart"

Well this gay thinks Milo should shut the fuck up and try to think about an existence outside of his own. What a fucking douche.

[Pete Cash]

I know what the issue is.

Young men largely disconnected from their culture get identity from their consumption. They see an outsider attacking this and believe that she is attacking them personally. The problem isn't Sarkeesian the problem is young men getting an identity from the stuff they buy.

Now there are misogynists attacking her. The mra types are certainly there but the vast majority imo are just dissatisfied youth fearing that outsiders will destroy their identity. The argument but but but you don't even like the medium would simply not fly in other artistic fields yet Bert thinks it's the knockout punch.

Nobody is trying to take away your videogames. There are still absolutely horrendous tv/film/books being released and those things have been critiqued by feminists/marxists/other ists for decades.

[Bert]

Hello Bert.

Gamers for ages have moaned about how the mainstream treats their hobby like it's for dumb babies instead of serious media like tv/film/books/etc. As soon as the mainstream starts treating it like it's an actual artistic platform by applying critical thought gamers fly off the handle. Why is this ?
By the mainstream do you mean Polygon, Kotaku, and RockPaperShotgun? Or are you just talking about Anita's youtube videos?


This is how proper art is treated. People into books don't have a reputation for going mental every time a feminist does a critical study of literature.
Maybe before the internet people didn't "go mental", now people "go mental" over everything. This is the internet.

Anita Sarkessian has a persecution complex and that is what everything boils down to.

She cherry picks arguments and misrepresents games because it helps her with her misplaced idea that most games are sexist.

When talking about Hitman Absolution she says "Players are meant to derive a perverse pleasure from desecrating the body of unsuspecting female characters, it's a rush streaming from a carefully concoted mix of sexual arrousal connected to the act of controlling and punishing representations of female sexuality"

That is an actual quote that I took the time to listen to (fuck you guys for making me do that again) just to prove what a load of horseshit her arguments are.

Hitman is about killing your target. You're penalized for killing people who aren't your target and penalized even more for killing innocent civilians. Also Hitman is a stealth game, it's not "kill everyone" like GTA or Saints Row.

More examples:
http://i.imgur.com/uIC0DsK.png

http://i.imgur.com/JrYExXW.png

http://i.imgur.com/5FYUf8E.png

For the Tropes vs Women videos (which she was backed for with Kickstarter) she took screengrabs from let's plays to use in her videos instead of playing them herself. Or more likely her assistant did. That 160k must have paid for something.
http://victorsopinion.blogspot.be/2013/07/anitas-sources.html


You should watch this. I know you're not going to like the thumbnail because it goes against the whole Anita is the savior of feminism narrative but It's a video actually talking about female characters in games. It's way more in depth than Anita's. Probably because this guy did research, not his assistant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmxcMZ6p2zg

I can't wait for you to backpedal into "lol its just games stop bloo bloo'ing the facts don't matter".

[Bert]

"Try growing up gay sweetheart"

Well this gay thinks Milo should shut the fuck up and try to think about an existence outside of his own. What a fucking douche.

How about people grow a fucking spine and stop whining about being "harassed" and being sent "death threats" that anyone over 1k followers on twitter gets at least 1 of a day.

Also, there was a followup with the police department that Anita supposedly filed a report with and no report was filed. But sure lets just give her the benefit of the doubt, she's not just doing this for attention and more youtube views, no wayyyyyy.

http://i.imgur.com/p6eaary.jpg

These sure look like legitimate threats and not something made up for attention.

[Morrison]

holy fuck.

[Morrison]

9/11 was an inside job.

[Morrison]

the moon landing was faked.

[Morrison]

THERMITE PAINT.

[Bert]

Morrison you fucking pussy if I take the time to write this shit the least I expect you to do is try to refute it.

If you think I made 0 fucking valid points even though I provided evidence then you're more brainwashed then I thought.

[Bert]

I realize though you're not that great with the internet (or phones) so these concepts may be new to you.

[JP]

I think her uses of various incarnations of the GTA series of games to back up her points are actually much weaker than her use of Watch Dogs.

Watch Dogs is meant to be viewed as a serious narrative and she lays out her points in regards to how it uses these moments in the game very well, as where GTA - as many of Rockstar's games are - is meant s be a social commentary and satirical.

Mate, in the first 3 minutes that video makes AS's cherry picking look like innocent wandering through a forrest of delights. "Early Gaming" apparently equates to 2006.

[Pete Cash]

What kind of absolute idiot would send death threats from a twitter account easily traced. Also this dude here who simply spoke about AS got death threats.

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/08/30/i-get-death-threats-for-writing-about-the-death-threats-sent-to-anita-sarkeesian/

So its not difficult to believe that some idiot is sending her threats.

Videogame blogs are just that videogame blogs. I have heard for years that games are art and should be treated as serious business. This is literally what is done with other forms of art. I read book reviews all the time I disagree with. I don't send the writers death threats because I have more going on in my life than identifying with the books I buy.

[JP]

How about people grow a fucking spine and stop whining about being "harassed" and being sent "death threats" that anyone over 1k followers on twitter gets at least 1 of a day.

I'm more on the 'that shouldn't happen' side of things and don't really have an issue with it being highlighted. Celebrity or infamy shouldn't have to come with a necessity to live with abuse.

I'm not exaggerating here when I say I'm properly scared about the social media reaction to the start of the show next week. Been warned it can be harsh, especially early on if a season long narrative is unkind initially.

[Bert]

I think her uses of various incarnations of the GTA series of games to back up her points are actually much weaker than her use of Watch Dogs.

What? I don't. What?


Watch Dogs is meant to be viewed as a serious narrative and she lays out her points in regards to how it uses these moments in the game very well, as where GTA - as many of Rockstar's games are - is meant s be a social commentary and satirical.

A serious narrative of flawed logic and misrepresented points.


Mate, in the first 3 minutes that video makes AS's cherry picking look like innocent wandering through a forrest of delights. "Early Gaming" apparently equates to 2006.

The first 3 minutes of the video feature games from the 80's. This whole post. I don't even.

[Morrison]

Morrison you fucking pussy if I take the time to write this shit the least I expect you to do is try to refute it.

If you think I made 0 fucking valid points even though I provided evidence then you're more brainwashed then I thought.

yeeeeeah, it's me that's brainwashed...

[Bert]

What kind of absolute idiot would send death threats from a twitter account easily traced. Also this dude here who simply spoke about AS got death threats.

And so have the people speaking out against her.
http://i.imgur.com/J86BfjH.png

But it doesn't matter because he's on the "wrong side"?


So its not difficult to believe that some idiot is sending her threats.

Videogame blogs are just that videogame blogs. I have heard for years that games are art and should be treated as serious business. This is literally what is done with other forms of art. I read book reviews all the time I disagree with. I don't send the writers death threats because I have more going on in my life than identifying with the books I buy.

I'm not condoning death threats, I'm not sending any and never would but they do happen to just about everyone which is why I get annoyed when people play the victim for attention.

I'm not saying she doesn't get death threats I'm saying these specific ones with her address blacked out appear to be falsified.

Sure you don't send writers death threats but do you honestly think George RR Martin doesn't get any for not finishing book 6 yet? If so I think you're highly delusional.

[Pete Cash]

I once for a laugh wrote a marxist interpretation of Harry Potter on this website. Now Wedge did almost permaban me for it and it took Tempest to convince him that I was only mucking around but I didn't get any death threats weirdly. I did have Croc get annoyed because I said Harry Potter was for children.

See there is a difference between being annoyed by a troll and flying off the handle so badly that you send death threats. Either she is faking a lot of death threats or at least some of them are legit. Now when the media sees a lady making a youtube about video games and gamers getting so angry with babbys first critical analysis that they flip out and start to make graphic rape/death threats who do you think is going to come across as sympathetic. Hint its not the gamers.

Its gamers that make themselves look like misogynist idiots. Nobody is trying to take away your video games. What she is trying to do using critical analysis so basic it would be required from a first year university student in the arts is make people perhaps think about the flaws in gaming story telling. You do not have to agree or disagree with her. Again I have agreed and disagreed with loads of critical analysis. I quite like a Perverts History of Cinema but I don't necessarily agree with everything that Zizek says. I have read articles where he attacks various things that I find important like buying local food and I am yet to send any death threats to an old Slovenian Marxist because he disagrees with an aspect of my life.

[Bert]

yeeeeeah, it's me that's brainwashed...

There you go again not contributing to the discussion. Perhaps because you have nothing of value to add.

Why don't you go find some dumdum in the wrestling forum to pile on. It's all you contribute these days anyway.

[Pete Cash]

And so have the people speaking out against her.
http://i.imgur.com/J86BfjH.png

But it doesn't matter because he's on the "wrong side"?



I'm not condoning death threats, I'm not sending any and never would but they do happen to just about everyone which is why I get annoyed when people play the victim for attention.

I'm not saying she doesn't get death threats I'm saying these specific ones with her address blacked out appear to be falsified.

Sure you don't send writers death threats but do you honestly think George RR Martin doesn't get any for not finishing book 6 yet? If so I think you're highly delusional.

Certainly not to the same degree as AS got for doing a youtube on a videogame.

Listen, there is always a certain percentage of nutters out there in any field. There will be nutters who agree with my take on something and nutters who disagree with my take but the venom that a lady really doing absolutely basic level uni critical analysis is to me mind blowing.

I have never seen such a tantrum chucked over what is pretty basic and tame stuff. She could be a lot more inflammatory but she is pretty chill imo.

[Morrison]

but for real, there's just nothing to argue with or refute. or moreso, nothing worth spending the time on. you're on some ideological shit that no amount of debate is going to pull either of us closer to the middle. this general argument has been going on for months across multiple threads in multiple parts of the forum, it seems, with no head way, and i honestly think you are just too wrapped up in the melodrama and this puerile concept of the world to have a developed conversation with about this stuff.

[JP]

The first 3 minutes of the video feature games from the 80's. This whole post. I don't even.

Oh sorry, I meant 5 instead of 3. Which obviously invalidates everything.

This whole response. I don't even. :squint:

[Morrison]

There you go again not contributing to the discussion. Perhaps because you have nothing of value to add.

Why don't you go find some dumdum in the wrestling forum to pile on. It's all you contribute these days anyway.

hahahaha, awwww, poor baby.

[JP]

[COLOR=#009966][FONT="Trebuchet MS"]What? I don't. What?

Sorry, missed this initially (long night with beer and football and beer and meh).

GTA is satire. AS's use of it to back up her points is inherently flawed. Watch Dogs though, she meticulously lays out why she believes it to be a harmful exploitation of females in games.

[Bert]

I once for a laugh wrote a marxist interpretation of Harry Potter on this website. Now Wedge did almost permaban me for it and it took Tempest to convince him that I was only mucking around but I didn't get any death threats weirdly. I did have Croc get annoyed because I said Harry Potter was for children.

See there is a difference between being annoyed by a troll and flying off the handle so badly that you send death threats. Either she is faking a lot of death threats or at least some of them are legit. Now when the media sees a lady making a youtube about video games and gamers getting so angry with babbys first critical analysis that they flip out and start to make graphic rape/death threats who do you think is going to come across as sympathetic. Hint its not the gamers.

Its gamers that make themselves look like misogynist idiots. Nobody is trying to take away your video games. What she is trying to do using critical analysis so basic it would be required from a first year university student in the arts is make people perhaps think about the flaws in gaming story telling. You do not have to agree or disagree with her. Again I have agreed and disagreed with loads of critical analysis. I quite like a Perverts History of Cinema but I don't necessarily agree with everything that Zizek says. I have read articles where he attacks various things that I find important like buying local food and I am yet to send any death threats to an old Slovenian Marxist because he disagrees with an aspect of my life.

Try it again by posting it on a blog when you have thousands of followers on twitter and see what happens. It's not an accurate comparison to the following or unfortunate celebrity someone like Anita Sarkessian has.

Most of the media being Kotaku, Polygon, Rockpapershotgun and shockingly and the only one of note really, Forbes?

Not all gamers are looking like misogynist idiots they're just the ones who get retweeted and get blog posts made about them. There are female game devs tweeting with #GamerGate who are on board with the idea of the current state of "video game journalism" being a problem. Then there are the people from Microsoft from that screenshot I posted earlier, then there are also the REAL PEOPLE WITH NOT NEW TWITTER ACCOUNTS who are using #NotOurShield who are not just white males.

I'm not supposed to comment on how she cherry picks things to get offended about or how she twists what is actually going on in the game to fit into her paranoid narrative? Well to that I just have to say too bad. I don't even like Hitman Absolution but it's a shame if her dumb inaccurate video stops people from giving it a try because she gives them the wrong idea of what it's about.

tl;dr There are people on BOTH SIDES of this whole #GamerGate thing that are harassing and sending death threats so why is it okay when the Anti-GamerGate people do it?

[Pete Cash]

The problem with satire and irony in general is that its very good at masking very real digs. One of my favourite pieces of media is the Gervais, Merchant, Pilkinton XFM show and they use irony to have racist and sexist digs. Now I still love the show but the idea that they are just being ironic is silly. Its the Dave Chappelle (obviously English have never heard of him) thing where he got annoyed at the thought of people taking his ironic jokes about black people and laughing not at the irony but as straight racism.

[Bert]

but for real, there's just nothing to argue with or refute. or moreso, nothing worth spending the time on. you're on some ideological shit that no amount of debate is going to pull either of us closer to the middle. this general argument has been going on for months across multiple threads in multiple parts of the forum, it seems, with no head way, and i honestly think you are just too wrapped up in the melodrama and this puerile concept of the world to have a developed conversation with about this stuff.

Have you even watched AS's videos? That's the only way I can see you say there's nothing to refute, because you don't even understand what I'm talking about. Or did you just feel like joining in here again because that is literally all you do anymore.

[Bert]

Oh sorry, I meant 5 instead of 3. Which obviously invalidates everything.

This whole response. I don't even. :squint:

Okay, why did you say early gaming means 2006 when he shows video games from the 80s with female lead characters?

As far as Anita what about her thoughts on Hitman, New Vegas, and Red Dead Redemption? I posted images already detailing what was wrong with her arguments.

[Pete Cash]

Try it again by posting it on a blog when you have thousands of followers on twitter and see what happens. It's not an accurate comparison to the following or unfortunate celebrity someone like Anita Sarkessian has.

Most of the media being Kotaku, Polygon, Rockpapershotgun and shockingly and the only one of note really, Forbes?

Not all gamers are looking like misogynist idiots they're just the ones who get retweeted and get blog posts made about them. There are female game devs tweeting with #GamerGate who are on board with the idea of the current state of "video game journalism" being a problem. Then there are the people from Microsoft from that screenshot I posted earlier, then there are also the REAL PEOPLE WITH NOT NEW TWITTER ACCOUNTS who are using #NotOurShield who are not just white males.

I'm not supposed to comment on how she cherry picks things to get offended about or how she twists what is actually going on in the game to fit into her paranoid narrative? Well to that I just have to say too bad. I don't even like Hitman Absolution but it's a shame if her dumb inaccurate video stops people from giving it a try because she gives them the wrong idea of what it's about.

tl;dr There are people on BOTH SIDES of this whole #GamerGate thing that are harassing and sending death threats so why is it okay when the Anti-GamerGate people do it?

I've seen the issue covered in plenty of mainstream press.

The BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-29028236

New Statesmen
http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2014/08/tropes-vs-anita-sarkeesian-passing-anti-feminist-nonsense-critique

The Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/01/how-to-attack-a-woman-who-works-in-video-games

The ABC (Australia's national broadcaster)
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2014/s4080366.htm?site=(none)

ABC (america)
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/women-battle-online-anti-women-hate-manosphere/story?id=20579038

SMH (an Australian newspaper)
http://news.smh.com.au/digital-life/games/feminist-game-critic-driven-from-home-by-disturbing-online-threats-20140829-109t2y.html

I mean what world are you living in. My girlfriend who knows nothing about gaming has heard of her.

Of course you can criticise her work but what is happening is not criticism its a tantrum.

[Morrison]

Have you even watched AS's videos? That's the only way I can see you say there's nothing to refute, because you don't even understand what I'm talking about. Or did you just feel like joining in here again because that is literally all you do anymore.

you are a sad little man, dude. this is precisely the kind of behavior pete is going on about. some kind of disagreement and it's time to go ten levels deep and try and insult or belittle or discredit you or your opinions as a person. good lord.

i don't care if a woman is faking death threats on twitter or pretending she's a gamer. it's melodrama. it's not fucking important. you're obsessed with it. you present facts against her in a dramatic, childish way. you never actually bother to address the core issue of misogyny within video games, you just want to rail against and pile on this woman. i don't care to do that, i'd rather have a debate about a worthwhile topic, not petty interpersonal quasi-gaming celebrity media bullshit, which is what this whollllllle spiel is based around. that's why i'm not engaging you with your pre-made screen grabs and video links that every member of the army can use to cite their hatred. the only time the actual issue of misogyny was brought up by you was just to discredit HER approach to discussing the topic. you clearly have something that more closely resembles a personal issue with her, and i have no energy or real cause to defend her. i am making snide digs because i think you are wasting time and energy arguing over this basic bullshit and come off looking like a whacko birther or 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

[Bert]

I've only seen the guardian one online and lol guardian. The woman who wrote that article, Jenn Frank, couldn't handle the negative backlash she recieved and is now saying she's an ex-writer.
http://i.imgur.com/dtDgCrh.png

This is the infographic:
http://i.imgur.com/HkWh7j2.png

I'm surprised ABC (america) is talking about it.

Everyone gets death threats. I don't know how you can say Anita's are any worse without viewing each one individually.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/07/17/critic-faces-death-threats-over-bad-dark-knight-rises-review/

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2014/04/29/fat-shaming-documentary-spurs-death-threats/

http://movies.msn.com/movies/article.aspx?news=875253

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/08/4chan-michael-gallagher-death-threats_n_1949749.html

http://www.sandiegored.com/noticias/42471/Ben-Affleck-receives-death-threats-after-being-cast-as-the-new-Batman/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/342526/Princess-Diana-murder-author-receives-chilling-death-threats

http://en.protothema.gr/fatih-akin-i-have-received-death-threats-from-turkish-ultranationalists/

http://www.fromplay.com/video/this-teacher-receives-death-threats-for-giving-lessons-on-racism-in-japan/

[Bert]

you are a sad little man, dude. this is precisely the kind of behavior pete is going on about. some kind of disagreement and it's time to go ten levels deep and try and insult or belittle or discredit you or your opinions as a person. good lord.

i don't care if a woman is faking death threats on twitter or pretending she's a gamer. it's melodrama. it's not fucking important. you're obsessed with it. you present facts against her in a dramatic, childish way. you never actually bother to address the core issue of misogyny within video games, you just want to rail against and pile on this woman. i don't care to do that, i'd rather have a debate about a worthwhile topic, not petty interpersonal quasi-gaming celebrity media bullshit, which is what this whollllllle spiel is based around. that's why i'm not engaging you with your pre-made screen grabs and video links that every member of the army can use to cite their hatred. the only time the actual issue of misogyny was brought up by you was just to discredit HER approach to discussing the topic. you clearly have something that more closely resembles a personal issue with her, and i have no energy or real cause to defend her. i am making snide digs because i think you are wasting time and energy arguing over this basic bullshit and come off looking like a whacko birther or 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

All I stated was facts, Morrison. Maybe it's because you're so busy but you all do is pile on people or chime in to add a little quip or remark. I don't usually comment on it but this time it has to do with me.

This is the video game forum. I have been talking about video games and the video game community and how it is portrayed for hours now. I'm presenting accurate facts against her that discredit what she says in her goddamn videos. How hard is that to comprehend? I'm not making shit up. I even took the time to listen again just to get an exact quote of the bullshit she spouts in regards to Hitman Absolution.

[Morrison]

All I stated was facts, Morrison. Maybe it's because you're so busy but you all do is pile on people or chime in to add a little quip or remark. I don't usually comment on it but this time it has to do with me.

This is the video game forum. I have been talking about video games and the video game community and how it is portrayed for hours now. I'm presenting accurate facts against her that discredit what she says in her goddamn videos. How hard is that to comprehend? I'm not making shit up. I even took the time to listen again just to get an exact quote of the bullshit she spouts in regards to Hitman Absolution.

holllllyyyyyy shitttttttttttt.

[Bert]

Let me just put it this way as long as Rogerer insists on trolling me about this I'm going to insist on discussing it.

[Bert]

p.s. you never said you watched AS's videos. ;)

[Morrison]

p.s. you never said you watched AS's videos. ;)

did you not read that second paragraph? i honestly don't understand your response unless you never saw it.

[Pete Cash]

Nit picking only goes so far in criticism. If she was nit picking I'd feel the same way. Again I understand that a lot of young men don't have a lot going on and are lashing out because an outsider is attacking their identity. I'd rather discuss the problems with young people (mostly men) identifying with their consumer choices because that's a sadder issue imo than even sexism in games. That said we can discuss both.

I like video games as an aside but a culture formed from consumerism does not feel healthy to me.

[Bert]

http://www.nerdist.com/vepisode/ucb-presents-controller-freaks-misogyny-in-video-games/

[Pete Cash]

Let me just put it this way as long as Rogerer insists on trolling me about this I'm going to insist on discussing it.

Of course you should discuss it. It's an interesting topic but nobody not even AS is trying to take away your video games.

[Bert]

Dead or Alive is one I agree with but had forgotten about. I don't even like the way those games play as far as fighting games.

Never actually tried the beach volleyball one I would rather play Tekken 3's Tekken Ball mode than play that.

[Bert]

Of course you should discuss it. It's an interesting topic but nobody not even AS is trying to take away your video games.

I don't think I've even acknowledged this because I thought you would quit saying it eventually but I don't think anyone is trying to take away my video games. I know that Activision won't stop making Call of Duty and EA won't stop making Madden (which I don't even play.)

[The Rogerer]

Me trolling you? You kept griping about me in the GOTG thread, them you posted about Zoe Quinn in here and called me out by name. Shut up you peon. Have you ever made a game?

I hope all this clears up because then you'll be able to take it to the bank when Street Fighter V gets a score of 8.7 for sound. Also I really hope we get these fucking whores.

[Bert]

You bumped the thread after there were no posts for 6 days.

Go have a read a lot has happened while you were away.

[The Rogerer]

That doesn't mean anything.

Edit: I assume you're telling me to go and read about recent developments. I knew about this stuff before you posted it here. Remember who you're talking to. Do you even code bro?

[JP]

Okay, why did you say early gaming means 2006 when he shows video games from the 80s with female lead characters?

He says "early gaming" and then uses examples of Oni (2001), D-2 (2000), Perfect Dark (2000), No One Lives Forever (2000) and Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) alongside some examples of 80's and 90's gaming.

The list of examples are he uses actually kind of proves AS's points, with almost all of them being sexualised or a Ms Male character. Quite incredibly he notes that one of the characters is highly sexualised and then proceeds to ignore it for every other one.

I've already stated I don't agree with everything she says, but I do agree with her core arguments, because they reflect the reality of the situation.

[Bert]

That doesn't mean anything.

Edit: I assume you're telling me to go and read about recent developments. I knew about this stuff before you posted it here. Remember who you're talking to. Do you even code bro?

It means you felt the need to keep the discussion going by trolling me when I was going to let it die.

I find it hard to believe you know about everything. More likely you're just not willing to do the research.

[The Rogerer]

It's not hard to keep up on this stuff, I do a lot of reading. Again, you called me out so this is what you get. I 'troll' you because the ultimate motivation you're swept up in is blatant vitriol and it's never not going to be amusing. If I hold back, it's because I assume that you're trying to troll me and I'm not getting drawn into a double bluff.

[Bert]

http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/09/gamergate_explodes_gaming_journalists_declare_the_ gamers_are_over_but_they.html?wpsrc=fol_tw

The attacks on the press have ranged from well-reasoned to offensive to paranoid, but the gaming journalists unwisely decided to respond to the growing, nebulous anger by declaring that “gamers” were dead. Such articles appeared concurrently in Gamasutra (“ ‘Gamers’ are over (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_ov er.php)” and “A guide to ending ‘gamers’ (http://gamasutra.com/blogs/DevinWilson/20140828/224450/A_Guide_to_Ending_quotGamersquot.php) ”), Destructoid (“There are gamers at the gate, but they may already be dead (http://www.destructoid.com/why-does-the-term-gamer-feel-important--280451.phtml)”), Kotaku (“We might be witnessing the ‘death of an identity (http://kotaku.com/we-might-be-witnessing-the-death-of-an-identity-1628203079)’ ”) and Rock, Paper, Shotgun (“Gamers are over (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/09/01/the-monday-papers-4/)”), as well as Ars Technica (“The death of the ‘gamers (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2014/08/the-death-of-the-gamers-and-the-women-who-killed-them/)’ ”), Vice (“Killing the gamer identity (http://www.vice.com/read/this-guys-embarrassing-relationship-drama-is-killing-the-gamer-identity-828)”) and BuzzFeed (“Gaming is leaving ‘gamers’ behind (http://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/gaming-is-leaving-gamers-behind)”). These articles share some traits in common besides their theses: They are unconvincing, lacking in hard evidence, and big on wishful thinking.

A good number of them link to an obscure blog post by academic Dan Golding, “The End of Gamers (http://dangolding.tumblr.com/post/95985875943/the-end-of-gamers),” which argues, again without evidence, that “the gamer identity has been broken” and that the current unrest “is an attempt to retain hegemony.” Kotaku writer Nathan Grayson linked to a similarly obtuse piece of academic argot (“ ‘Gamer’ is selfish ... conservative ... tribalistic”), which in Grayson’s words “breaks down the difference between ‘gamer’ as a manufactured identity versus loving games on multiple levels.”

The majority were up within 24 hours of each other, some the same day, but there's nothing fishy going on

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/Tse0q82.png

But guys can't get death threats?!?!

[The Rogerer]

Without being funny, I don't know what you're doing any more. You're really just revelling in the fight, since you're just posting tit for tat. You seem satisfied that a man received death threats. It was always just a game to you. I understand it, and putting together evidence and all those 'info'graphics is fun and frenzied.

A lot of those people are not really journalists and it's a blurred shitty line. A lot of games writing is nepotistic and puerile, but thankfully it doesn't matter very much. I thought AS's videos were sometimes quite bad but it didn't matter. Whatever any journalist has done, it pales to the response of people on forums who are just angry and furious. That's the only significant part. I won't be posting about this again. Maybe if you could find it in your heart to not really care about that fucking whore.

[Bert]

Why would I be happy someone recieved death threats? That's ludicrous. The whole point was that Kotaku shouldn't report on shit when they don't have all the facts but also that Anita isn't the first person to receive threats and she won't be the last so her always trying to play the martyr disturbs me.

It does matter. That's what you guys don't get. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but it matters to me a lot of other people. And in the grand scheme of video game blogging, reporting, journalism, or whatever you want to call it, it matters.

How is it surprising people are angry they were lied to? People have a right to be angry, they don't have a right to send death threats though, I'm not condoning that. But, that's not all of #GamerGate. That's not even most of #GamerGate. There is a positive message here, a message for change and people on the "other side" just refuse to see it or acknowledge there is even a problem. The only people who get responses or retweeted are the ones harassing but that doesn't mean that's all there is.

[Pete Cash]

It's just the outright hostility is odd. Again maybe what she said is dumb. It's her take on a subject but she is just one person. Do your own critical analysis if you want.

If she is a con she only succeeds because gamers flew off the handle. If you believe she is just scamming people ignoring her would be the best bet. Personally I think she is just doing babbys first feminist critical reading of games in a fairly non confrontational way and it's too much for the man children to handle.

[The Rogerer]

The positive message has been completely drowned. Whatever issues there are with game coverage, and there are a lot, they are completely dwarfed by the behaviour. It just so happens that a lot of the aggressive behaviour is quite transparent. It seems regularly ignored that an aspect of all the misogyny is actually just affected. The actual messages are simply deliberately chosen to inflame. What is the issue is that the people giving out these messages are just ready to dole out whatever they can to damage people and then simultaneously claim that there words are meaningless (if this were actually true, wouldn't they be admitting they're completely wasting their time?). I don't believe the misogynistic stuff is sincere, but it still can often come from a place where the response to women is higher.

I don't think there's anything worthwhile in #gamergate. Why try and fish out positives in something that is overwhelmingly destructive? I don't think it's a proportionate response at all. These websites are commercial enterprises and they don't hold a privileged position. I really don't know what people are trying to fight for. The games press is more than irrelevant nowadays. Writing articles about people who are friends or have (minor) financial ties to you isn't a significant issue. It happens in every industry and just the smell of it is not enough to start shit over.

If all things were equal, I don't like Anita and I don't like her videos, to the point where I think they're self defeating. I'm more in a position to be upset by that because I contributed to the kickstarter and I'm disappointed in the outcome of that. If anything I should be the first person making infographics and tedious youtube refutations as a result. I think the display of aggression completely trumps anything and everything here. It's priority number one because it's disgusting. Let's stop pretending that getting targeted on the internet isn't scary. Reading the stuff from normal people is bad enough, but if you have a hundred thousand people wound up in a campaign against you, the law of averages says that there will be more than enough sociopaths and psychopaths in that number to take it a step further.

I don't see gamergate changing anything, because ultimately the biggest changes it will have made will be through brute force. The willingness to use things like death threats and the language means that you end up with vulnerable people being silenced. You can argue that the people who are fighting pro-Anita are just as bad, and guess what, they are just as bad, which means the other side is bad, ergo gamers are a bunch of fucking animals. That's the result here.

[The Rogerer]

Edit: Oops

[JP]

How much truth in these reports that Gamergate has been proven to be fabricated bollocks is there?

Because it looks pretty damning.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan

[The Rogerer]

Quinn captured a load of stuff from an IRC channel, which ends up being a pain to read. I've seen endless 4chan posts where they show their hand by making themselves feel entertained by using loads of military lingo that they picked up from Call of Duty. Funnily enough they have the numbers and inclination to make loads of false information. They'd probably consider it fair game too because that's what they think Anita does. And as well all know the best thing to do when you disagree with someone is to act exactly the same way.

[Pete Cash]

The facts are so called social justice warriors aren't going away because gamers get mad. People have been doing critical analysis like this for decades. In fact the angry responses will just fuel more of it.

[Bert]

How much truth in these reports that Gamergate has been proven to be fabricated bollocks is there?

Because it looks pretty damning.

http://www.examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan
0. Admin Baldwin was the one who started the hashtag. http://i.imgur.com/YfFSSPP.png

Also this whole thing about #NotOurShield being all white males with fake accounts is ridiculous. I already linked some earlier that were legitimate. It's harder to find ones that aren't than are. I especially loved someone being told they don't know anything because they have white privilege and them responding as a black guy with a #NotYourShield sign. If it will help prove anything to you guys tomorrow I will take the time to link everyone who isn't a white male using #NotYourShield.



Quinn captured a load of stuff from an IRC channel, which ends up being a pain to read. I've seen endless 4chan posts where they show their hand by making themselves feel entertained by using loads of military lingo that they picked up from Call of Duty. Funnily enough they have the numbers and inclination to make loads of false information. They'd probably consider it fair game too because that's what they think Anita does. And as well all know the best thing to do when you disagree with someone is to act exactly the same way.

Zoe Quinn cropped logs and the full ones are posted online.
https://archive.today/Ler4O

There's nothing criminal going on it's just people talking. She's not going to the FBI.

[Bert]

The facts are so called social justice warriors aren't going away because gamers get mad. People have been doing critical analysis like this for decades. In fact the angry responses will just fuel more of it.

That's only a small part of what this is about anyway.

[Bert]

Maybe I will.

Here's a good neutral piece by Erik Kain from Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/09/04/gamergate-a-closer-look-at-the-controversy-sweeping-video-games/

I know it's neutral because I agree with some of what he said but not all of it. Interestingly, I've never seen the term "misogynerd" used until now.

I'm going to copy something I said to Morrison on Skype:
"I should have saved discussing Anita for another time but her followers and friends are following her system of calling anyone who disagrees with them a sexist or misogynist. Or saying they don't have the right to discuss anything because of white privilege. And if they're women who claim to be feminists then they've been brainwashed by the patriarchy. White privilege, sexist, misogynist and feminist have become buzzwords with no meaning just as much as me using social justice warrior to describe the people who say it.

And I'm not saying none of those things exist I'm saying they're being used and have been used for a while as a catch all to describe anyone who disagrees with you."

I'm going to make an effort to stop using the term social justice warrior or SJW.

[The Rogerer]

The #gamergate folk have become the ultimate SJWs. Ultimately it's about being part of a movement. I'd like to know what it is that you think that the greater good is here, you've alluded to it several times.

Gaming websites are enthusiast press. Almost all profressional games writers and reviewers have close personal relationships with developers. There seem to be cries for objectivity in reviews but it's nonsense. Scores in games reviews are now thoroughly meaningless and probably far more subjective than books or films. They are taken far, far more seriously though. People still critisise Jeff Gerstmann for the score he gave Ocarina of Time 8.8 or something.

I think this is because, in my personal experience, being a gamer was being about fighting from the start. Defending against some guy saying the game he had was better than your game. I've done Spectrum vs Commadore, SNES vs Megadrive, Playstation vs N64 and so on... For some reasons every time a game gets reviewed is a matter of life and death.

All the opinion pieces, people could disclose them but then they'd have to disclose stuff that's very wooly. Unless it's a formal financial relationship, and patreon is something of a tip jar in my opinion. If a music reviewer reviews an album, he's probably 'given' more money to his favourite band in the past than these people have with patreon. It's a bit weird but sometimes the hatred looks like jealousy or something. A lot of people out there want the job of getting paid to play games. I personally don't have a problem with the articles that these friends write about each other. People can do that, it's fine, it's just an article.

The games press is pretty transparent. Internet 'detectives' have skillfully exposed relationships.... because those relationships were happening in public view. Writing opinon pieces about someone you're friends with doesn't represent corruption. Who is being hurt? Are you being lied to? If you are, aren't you always being lied to?

The real potential for corruption lies with people like PewDiePie. The problem with the internet is that it's fuelled by advertising. The trick with TV, and everything has been - people will skip the adverts, so we now embed it. The people will millions of subcribers who will just gesture towards a game and fuel sales of it, pretending to be a guy in the bedroom but being a fairly well oiled machine.

I also hate Kotaku because it's part of gawker media and the mission statement is pretty much get hits and any and all costs. Therefore some of the people writing for it can say ludicrous things, but the bosses hire them knowing this and likely cynically encourage it. One of their writers getting threatened is good for business.

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/GcpmbCH.jpg

So you know that people are upset about their friends writing positive press for their games but do you know about the IndieCade and IGF stuff where people pay money to enter only for the winners to be friends of judges? Which I'll have to get more into later because I need to leave for work.

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/oBH3ZuD.png

http://i.imgur.com/B2ANnak.png

Now I'm leaving.

[Atty]

This is still going on?

[Pete Cash]

There is some z grade astroturfing going on but that's neither here nor there. It's not an argument if a black bloke supports the movement or not. This all goes back to young people normally men but possibly across racial lines (I'm pretty sure black kids play video games) getting identity from consumption.

Obviously game journalism is absolutely horrendous. The worst of the worst in criticism. However again real critics do talk about the social implication of the media they review. What's interesting to me is better gaming journalism would mean stepping up the criticism of storylines. A movie that was filled with objectionable garbage would be attacked by critics. Be careful what one wishes for.

[Pete Cash]

I do think the sjw side could do without the theatrics but I've always found theatrics fun.

Again this boils down to internet echo chambers. Die cis scum on one forum. Mra lunacy on another.

Political correctness is a stupid term but both sides are guilty of trying to silence debate. People should be more willing to engage with people they disagree with. I've found people are more and more precious in their views.

[The Rogerer]

Complete SJW Bert. Please send me some more pamphlets. Apparently there was a man on twitter? When I didn't like the trailer for GotG I rolled my eyes and that's it. Bert needs a hashtag and a campaign and he is Oscar Mike with the Sleeper Cells ETA 18 hundred hours. Astroturfing can't be trusted either way because, wait a minute wait a minute get this... you can 'astroturf' against yourself WHOA THERE IS NO SPOON. I can create counter astroturf to support my cause because I'm very smart. Not to tar anyone with a brush but this is exactly the sort of stuff that 4chan lives for. You have a community involved here who basically aspire to be Project Mayhem. Keep posting more infomages, by all means.

Like, seriously, I wrote on here at length about particular outlets like gawker media, but Bert wants to post another picture of twitter and tell us to count the pixels and meanwhile keeps complaining about that literal whore Zoe Quinn. Actually post what your ethical quandaries are with your own brain and hands.

[Bert]

There is some z grade astroturfing going on but that's neither here nor there. It's not an argument if a black bloke supports the movement or not. This all goes back to young people normally men but possibly across racial lines (I'm pretty sure black kids play video games) getting identity from consumption.

Obviously game journalism is absolutely horrendous. The worst of the worst in criticism. However again real critics do talk about the social implication of the media they review. What's interesting to me is better gaming journalism would mean stepping up the criticism of storylines. A movie that was filled with objectionable garbage would be attacked by critics. Be careful what one wishes for.

They've actually claimed multiple times that it is an argument. That every account is a white cis male sock puppet.

I don't care if they step up the criticism. I want better articles.

[Bert]

Complete SJW Bert. Please send me some more pamphlets. Apparently there was a man on twitter? When I didn't like the trailer for GotG I rolled my eyes and that's it. Bert needs a hashtag and a campaign and he is Oscar Mike with the Sleeper Cells ETA 18 hundred hours. Astroturfing can't be trusted either way because, wait a minute wait a minute get this... you can 'astroturf' against yourself WHOA THERE IS NO SPOON. I can create counter astroturf to support my cause because I'm very smart. Not to tar anyone with a brush but this is exactly the sort of stuff that 4chan lives for. You have a community involved here who basically aspire to be Project Mayhem. Keep posting more infomages, by all means.

Like, seriously, I wrote on here at length about particular outlets like gawker media, but Bert wants to post another picture of twitter and tell us to count the pixels and meanwhile keeps complaining about that literal whore Zoe Quinn. Actually post what your ethical quandaries are with your own brain and hands.

Do you smoke the same stuff DVDA does? That's a mean ramble you've got going. I don't want to mention Zoe anymore but when she's posting cropped logs and saying #NotYourShield was made up by 4chan when it clearly wasn't than I don't really feel like I have a choice. Did you read the Forbes article?

[The Rogerer]

I don't care if they step up the criticism. I want better articles.
Free market. But #gamergate is an excellent red carpet to roll out for games writers, it'll really attract the best.

[Bert]

It won't be hard to beat what we have currently. At least they'll have integrity. There's already some "indie" sites entering the landscape.

[The Rogerer]

"You know what it takes to write about videogames? It takes brass bass to write about videogames. Go and do likewise, Gents."

Who do you read? You do buy a lot of games, so/and I assume there's voices that you trust? I only really read people who clearly have a very personal interest and tell personal, rather than objective, stories about games. When I first played Diablo 3 I didn't get the point, then I came back to it months later, sorted out the difficulty, picked a different character and got into it. How does that translate into a review? I read about a guy who took 4 years to complete Persona 4 and that was the most informative reading I've done about the game, and he barely talked about it. Tim Rogers is probably the best because he totally gets it, but then he knowingly infurates a load of people. He has very astute video game opinions. People critisise him for being too long, much like me writing one and a half paragraphs is apparently a ramble. Having to read a few thousand words is apparently a problem for people who spend 20 hours a day staring at a monitor. They're good though.

[Atty]

I can write about games but I don't know how much people will like verbal blowjobs to BioWare and Valve.

[Bert]

"You know what it takes to write about videogames? It takes brass bass to write about videogames. Go and do likewise, Gents."

Who do you read? You do buy a lot of games, so/and I assume there's voices that you trust? I only really read people who clearly have a very personal interest and tell personal, rather than objective, stories about games. When I first played Diablo 3 I didn't get the point, then I came back to it months later, sorted out the difficulty, picked a different character and got into it. How does that translate into a review? I read about a guy who took 4 years to complete Persona 4 and that was the most informative reading I've done about the game, and he barely talked about it. Tim Rogers is probably the best because he totally gets it, but then he knowingly infurates a load of people. He has very astute video game opinions. People critisise him for being too long, much like me writing one and a half paragraphs is apparently a ramble. Having to read a few thousand words is apparently a problem for people who spend 20 hours a day staring at a monitor. They're good though.

The Escapist is implementing a new code of ethics.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12223-The-Escapist-Publisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate.5

I usually use a bunch of sources and see what they agree and disagree on before coming to my own conclusion about buying a game, unless it's dirt cheap or in a bundle.

Neogaf's Steam thread, Neogaf's Vita thread, IGN video reviews, GiantBomb quicklooks, reading opinions on /v/ or /vg/, Total Biscuit's "WTF is" are usually pretty good for finding out if something is a good PC port or not (Dead Rising 3 is not), Blue Maxima or a few other youtubers when it comes to new Vita games, talking to my friends on Steam who have bought and played the game or heard good things about it.

My friends have complained that Giantbomb's quicklooks are too long. And they aren't really quick in a review sense but in the sense that it gives a 45minute or an hour look at a 10 hour or more game I think they do a good job. I've tried to tell them they don't really have to watch the whole thing anyway but oh well.

[The_Mike]

When it comes to reviews, I tend to just read forums and what average joes put up on GameFAQs. I care how the experience is for a gamer, and I simply do not trust video game journalism when it comes to reviewing. I was burned too many times by IGN's blatant fellating of THQ and their clearly broken Smackdown games, and GTAIV being shit and nobody admitting it until six months after their endless 10/10 reviews was a real lesson. I love The Escapist's articles and videos on issues and news, but I don't really feel like a game is a product that can be reliably explained by someone other than the player for whom it was designed. And a lot of game journalism was blatant hype and marketing bullshit designed to keep the publisher sweet for the sake of access. I don't care what the advertising wing thinks. They're not even good at lying any more.

[Beefy]

When it comes to reviews, I tend to just read forums and what average joes put up on GameFAQs. I care how the experience is for a gamer, and I simply do not trust video game journalism when it comes to reviewing. I was burned too many times by IGN's blatant fellating of THQ and their clearly broken Smackdown games, and GTAIV being shit and nobody admitting it until six months after their endless 10/10 reviews was a real lesson. I love The Escapist's articles and videos on issues and news, but I don't really feel like a game is a product that can be reliably explained by someone other than the player for whom it was designed. And a lot of game journalism was blatant hype and marketing bullshit designed to keep the publisher sweet for the sake of access. I don't care what the advertising wing thinks. They're not even good at lying any more.

GTAIV is far from shit (still way better than V IMO) but that game must have been a nightmare to review, as other Rockstar games, Skyrim, etc would be as well. It takes weeks to formulate a true opinion of these games. Even if it is your job to burn through games to the finish to write about them that by definition isn't how the typical player would play anyway so they're reviewing a different gaming experience.

But yeah reviews have never been accurate and everyone should know that. 20 years ago Amiga Power had studios pulling their games from their magazine because they applied an actual 1-100 rating scale and refused to give high ratings for perks. It has always been the case.

[JP]

Total Biscuit's "WTF is" are usually pretty good for finding out if something is a good PC port or not (Dead Rising 3 is not)

I swear I get more enjoyment from watching Total Biscuit's Hearthstone videos than I do from playing the game myself.

[Bert]

http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/09/09/6977/truth-gaming-interview-fine-young-capitalists

I had never supported a kickstarter or indiegogo and I gave them $5. I wish another news outlet would be willing to cover their story.

[The Rogerer]

Either they straight up know what they're doing, or they're one of those groups who don't know much about history and so reinvent the the oldest scam in the book on their own.

We've having an amazing opportunity! You get to take on work and responsibility for free! It'll be great exposure! The minority should be the one who takes on the most finanical risk of the project, sure. That's what it looks like though.

Otherwise there's not a lot to report I think. The project hasn't started yet. I'd be interested to know if Zoe Quinn has DDOS capacity, that didn't seem right. I know 4chan can and they did it to Anita Sarkeesian which garnered a big influx of money, so why not repeat it on yourself? It could be Shannon Matthews all over again.

[Bert]

So I should give zoe and Anita the benefit of the doubt but you go out of your way to make tfyc liars? gotta love double standards.

[The Rogerer]

I am honestly asking if it sounds feasible that Zoe Quinn was in a position to DDOS someone. That's the only bit I questioned of their account. When Anita got DDOSed there was no mystery as to who did it and whether they were capable or not.

[Bert]

allegedly her friend maya Kramer did it on her behalf. then they laughed about it on Twitter, there's proof of that but I'm on my phone right now. even if the ddos wasn't her she took part in the doxxing. she retweeted personal information to all of her followers.

[The Rogerer]

As I said originally, she is a mess.

[Bert]

Turns out we can agree on something.

So the New Yorker did a piece on Zoe and how all the bad people are out to get her.

Luckily it's an online only article so people won't have to read that trash in print.


I know you don't like conspiracy theories but I feel like I should point out that the writer of this New Yorker article contributed to the Patreon of Jenn Frank who wrote the completely biased article for theguardian and then when challenged about her take, and probably harassed (I can admit it even though I don't think it should be as big of a deal as it is), decided she was going to quit being a writer.
http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2fyvps/in_regards_to_the_new_yorker_story_on_gamergate/

I just really and truly do not understand why only one side of the story is being told, while the other is buried.

[The Rogerer]

I don't think patreon stuff is bad. It's the person using their personal funds to pay another writer for their work. Is that different from buying someone's book, game, record? Money seems to be a really sore subject here.

[Bert]

It shows a conflict of interest. And it's usually money per month which is different than a one time fee for a product.

Also, a lot of these people on patreon don't actually make anything, because they're not required to. It's just charity, essentially.

[The Rogerer]

It shows a conflict of interest. And it's usually money per month which is different than a one time fee for a product.

Also, a lot of these people on patreon don't actually make anything, because they're not required to. It's just charity, essentially.Is it a conflict of interest? The writer is independently paying someone who wrote about the subject, as you've stated. The subject isn't paying the writer. The writer has a relationship with the subject but not to a degree that compromises the content of the article. If there's lies or misleading information in the article that's an issue in itself. Unless it's a questionable sum I don't get this specific complaint at all. Money changing hands isn't special. Patreon doesn't make it dirty, it's just the modern alternative to selling discrete products. In a world of online distibution it doesn't make sense for a lot of people to sell discrete products. It's the future of the market and trying to paint it as something dodgy is either silly or deliberately old fashioned. Or just sore about money as I previously said. You can't just say conflict of interest. Identify what the actual problem is. Dave Meltzer is friends with loads of wrestlers, is he a crook?

I paid for Anita Sarkeesian's videos. Is it a conflict of interest for me to write about them or Zoe Quinn? What's in it for me?

[Bert]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BxSCsvnIIAA7jB0.png

Lying about donating to charity, she's such a terrible human being.

If Dave Meltzer writes an obviously false article like Alberto Del Rio loved being in WWE, was nice to everyone, and never did anything wrong then yes I would say he was a crook.

But, It's one thing for a smaller company to write an opinion piece. It's another thing entirely for the New Yorker to do it. They should be more self aware of the way that is perceived, like The Escapist's new ethics codes were saying. I hope the Times doesn't get involved with this.

[Bert]

Oh and TFYC got funded.

[The Rogerer]

Newspapers have always been full of opinion pieces, even more so on the internet. They're also really good at getting people annoyed and visiting the page. However, if they're writing something that's bullshit, then that's a bullshit problem, not a conflict of interest doesn't come into it because it doesn't change the content of the article. I haven't looked at it because it wasn't linked, but a bullshit article is a bullshit article, but someone giving someone patreon isn't significant there at all. It just makes these people feel like they're doing a journalism.

[The Rogerer]

On the charity issue, I can well imagine that she decided to list the charities and didn't actually go through any proper channels. When I made a game (lol) that used twitter with a friend as a portfolio piece he kept insisting we should put it on the side and offer a charity tip box. I declined because a)you can't just say you're doing things for charity, b)it's embarrassing when you get nothing and c)it makes you look self important.

So she could have just said whatever. Maybe she personally handed money to these charities and maybe she didn't. What she did do is fucking stupid because once you get any sort of attention to you and you haven't sorted your shit out, it's going to turn rough.

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/8frSAwj.png

I wonder how she's going to try to explain this away.

[The Rogerer]

Well she just did? I'm not sure what you're saying. Like, there seems to be a route that she didn't formalise the donation process. Then you can extend that to someone running a Facebook page not knowing about a formal relationship that doesn't exist. You may not believe that because there's an inherent lack of evidence but it's a believable explanation at present. Still possible that she lied but I'm sure intrepid people will pursue that to the ends of the earth.

[Bert]

I'm saying in 2013 she said iFred contacted her because she made their traffic explode. Now she is saying she didn't let them know ahead of time that the money was coming from her. Which is it?

http://i.imgur.com/njRGHR6.jpg
Also, the money from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline she says she's donating is from her Patreon, so even if this is all a misunderstanding it's other people's money really.

Meanwhile us gamers at GamerGate gave at this moment 3k for the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. I donated $10.
https://www.crowdrise.com/NSHGamers/

[son_of_foley]

Move all this to its own thread. Fucking hell guys

[The Rogerer]

Ah, well charity gets to be used as a weapon once again. I hope the victims appreciate it.

I'm saying in 2013 she said iFred contacted her because she made their traffic explode. Now she is saying she didn't let them know ahead of time that the money was coming from her. [/quote]Again, please explain the contradiction in those statements? If you run analytics on your website you can see where your internet traffic has come from following a link. The analytics person sees a big spike in visits and they can go in and piece together what happened. I have no idea what that's got to do with her telling them ahead of time or starting a formal relationship with the charity.

Sorry I don't have any pictures to post though.

[JP]

The main thing I've learned so far through this whole thing is that Adam Baldwin is batshit insane.

[Bert]

How so?

[Bert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7RLxrsJ04

[Peter Griffin]

Move all this to its own thread. Fucking hell guys

Lets listen to this guy, he knows whats up.

[JP]

How so?

Britebart consuming, deliberately insulting, evidence ignoring, entrenched position. Everything seems like, pun not intended, a game for win; pick a side, try to win.

[JP]

Move all this to its own thread. Fucking hell guys


Lets listen to this guy, he knows whats up.

How come? Seems to be driving decent conversation.

[Atty]

This is still going?

[Bert]

It will never end.

[son_of_foley]

How come? Seems to be driving decent conversation.
And it can continue to in a thread about the issue right? This isn't a ramble anymore it's an extended discussion on one topic. I'm not saying to shut up about it but I would think a mod could move existing posts to a new thread right

[Kyle_242]

Since this thing started, I've stopped reading game journalism blogs, stopped participating in modern "gamer" culture, went back to playing my SNES and started messing with web programming more seriously. I'm probably the happiest I've ever been.

[Bert]

I'm happy for you.

[The Rogerer]

Jeff Gerstmann:

Noticing that even people who like Destiny are commenting that they basically agree with middling reviews instead of lashing out in anger.

It's weird but nice, in a way. Typically the ratio is way more in favor of anger when any "big" game gets middling scores.

Makes you think that the ones who were always the most caustic and belligerent about games might be caught up in other Internet Bullshit.

[Bert]

I like Jeff, but that is dumb. People can do more than one thing at a time. Also, my friends love it.

[Bert]

https://twitter.com/marcprecipice/status/510922600516964352/photo/1
http://i.imgur.com/zwXH6rJ.jpg
Standing ovation for @femfreq—before her talk starts

Anita Sarkessian is basically a cult leader.

That would have been so weird to watch. Clapping with all of their glazed over eyes as they stare longingly at their leader and await their next command.

Scarier than whatever horror movie is coming out in October.

[The_Mike]

My god, every person I've ever seen speak in public has been a cult leader. What an eerie coincidence.

[Bert]

Did you see Hitler speak?

[Atty]

He was speaking into a mirror?

[The_Mike]

Did you see Hitler speak?

Yeah, but I preferred his silent work, like The Circus.

[JP]

My god, every person I've ever seen speak in public has been a cult leader. What an eerie coincidence.

:lol:

[Bert]

Britebart consuming, deliberately insulting, evidence ignoring, entrenched position. Everything seems like, pun not intended, a game for win; pick a side, try to win.

I just remembered I wanted to address this.

As far as Britebart goes it's pretty dumb to just generalize everything as bad and wrong.

I don't like Movie Bob at The Escapist but Archon the Co-Founder and GM is a nice guy who seems to see merit in what is going on so I wouldn't just say "Escapist consuming" to anyone on "the other side."

And If you don't think this GamerGate stuff has at least some merit to it then you've drank more koolaid than I realized.

Brace for images. I'm not sure how else I'm supposed to prove my point when this war is being fought on twitter.

You want to talk about deliberately insulting?
http://i.imgur.com/vwPOotV.png

http://i.imgur.com/P071dXH.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/NJRJNIr.png

Leigh Alexander time, Gamasutra's news director (this tweet was not censored by her, she loves posting emails with names attached):
http://i.imgur.com/mLf7dS7.png

http://i.imgur.com/trlnIBl.png

http://i.imgur.com/HotndDi.png
How fucking unprofessional can you be?

http://i.imgur.com/fJ0KziS.png
Apparently that applies to everyone but her.

http://i.imgur.com/Y6zfOzr.jpg
Tim fucking Schafer being an asshat.

Entrenched position being silencing all debate by passing around a blocklist full of thousands of people on twitter (https://twitter.com/chrisgrant/status/507323545962422272).

Oliver Campbell, former gaming journalist:
http://i.imgur.com/SEzvPZr.png
http://i.imgur.com/G8HaNWB.png
http://i.imgur.com/OVsBpWN.png
http://i.imgur.com/3XrTom0.png
http://i.imgur.com/Y35dTl6.png
http://i.imgur.com/0w3UPj5.png
http://i.imgur.com/N7E09hq.png
http://i.imgur.com/aLixIZh.png
http://i.imgur.com/RldHaQi.png
http://i.imgur.com/PJKz5BV.png
http://i.imgur.com/p6Hi6Ri.png
http://i.imgur.com/uvDv6jK.png
http://i.imgur.com/Fb7q9Rj.png
http://i.imgur.com/xjvNmji.png
http://i.imgur.com/R3nx03b.png
http://i.imgur.com/eWKFtuk.png
http://i.imgur.com/WeMjhNE.png
http://i.imgur.com/m4PNgyo.png
http://i.imgur.com/SHWMLMX.png
http://i.imgur.com/G0aysPt.png
http://i.imgur.com/gbM93TB.png
http://i.imgur.com/VtiCIBA.png
http://i.imgur.com/xMsy9N4.png
http://i.imgur.com/ecUInUC.png
http://i.imgur.com/EmdkCsk.png
http://i.imgur.com/QQ9sYyq.png
http://i.imgur.com/p72gGef.png
http://i.imgur.com/lLhEfhd.png
http://i.imgur.com/IarJ3LO.png
http://i.imgur.com/GyVrm3J.png
http://i.imgur.com/foza5Jn.png
http://i.imgur.com/OXadapw.png
http://i.imgur.com/Az0djPO.png
http://i.imgur.com/VZOlrAH.png
http://i.imgur.com/QeA8WqD.png

Another former gaming journalist:
http://i.imgur.com/t4jwaLK.png

http://i.imgur.com/QKnyh6W.png

Julian Assange, co-founder of wikileaks
http://i.imgur.com/R2Kg9bI.jpg

Ubisoft dev:
http://i.imgur.com/0vCJdl8.png
To sum it up:
http://i.imgur.com/adTZTQl.png

[Bert]

http://i.imgur.com/aAtV85t.png

[Bert]

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/17/Exposed-the-secret-mailing-list-of-the-gaming-journalism-elite

Hahaha, oh wow.

[Bert]

B-b-but it's brietbart and they're conversative and everything they say is wrong!

:rofl:

[The Rogerer]

Shit, sorry, I was still logged in as Bert for that last one

[Bert]

The ad hominem never gets old.

And before someone tries to say that game journalists having a group where they discuss what they're going to write about isn't a big deal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList

This also explains why all of those "death to gamers" articles dropped at the same time.

[Pete Cash]

He was making fun of your ad hom you idiot :lol:

[The Rick]

This is still going?

I echo this sentiment. Both sides have viscously attacked each other. Both sides have hacked one another. At this point both sides are just fucking wrong. This is a prime example of growing pains that video games need to get through. Every entertainment medium goes through scandals, and social issues. How this is handled says a lot about where video games are, and it turns out they have a long fucking way to go.

[Bert]

I echo this sentiment. Both sides have viscously attacked each other. Both sides have hacked one another. At this point both sides are just fucking wrong. This is a prime example of growing pains that video games need to get through. Every entertainment medium goes through scandals, and social issues. How this is handled says a lot about where video games are, and it turns out they have a long fucking way to go.

I think later we need to have a discussion on the term "hacking."But yeah, turns out if you call someone a shitlord or a pissbaby they get angry, who knew? Love the kindergarten insults they come up with though. To handle this at all they would first have to acknowledge they've did anything wrong which they're still not doing.

Tottillo posted some dumb article about a bomb threat to GDC in fucking March as a "scoop." today right after the brietbart article went up.

[Bert]

He was making fun of your ad hom you idiot :lol:

And I was making fun of him and JP when I posted it in the first place soooo.

[Atty]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10606343_10152840456469574_5076859101454594286_n.j pg?oh=97d0be3fb078878bc1f4206a3d11c01e&oe=54C45D45&__gda__=1418978106_535984150196525af877bf58d72901b 1

[The Rick]

Both sides have done wrong now though. Viciously attacking people, and sending death threats doesn't leave either side blameless. They both have blame. If you are this entrenched in the battle, I can only give you this.

You come off as crazy as lotjx on his movie tirades, or PMBR on MMA.

questioning journalistic integrity is fine. Zoe using her assets to get better coverage wouldn't shock me, and honestly doesn't bother me. And that probably speaks to how low the news media has set the bar for journalists these days. But Zoe doing what she (supposedly did) to get better coverage, and reviews isn't too far from Take 2 flying out journalists and showing them a good time. It's just that nice meals, and "exclusive content" goes over better with gamers than what reportedly happened. Doesn't make what she did right, but the shit storm and constant verbal abuse isn't suddenly okay. If fact it invalidates much of their stance altogether.

[Bert]

http://nichegamer.net/2014/09/gamergate-interview-anonymous-xbox-edition/

This isn't really about Zoe anymore. She was just the catalyst. Try to keep up.

Just because the "media sets the bar low" doesn't mean that should be acceptable and we should just let it happen. But again this isn't just about Zoe Quinn. Kotaku refused to run a story on The Fine Young Capitalists when they're supposedly pro-feminist. They're slanting every article they post and refusing to acknowledge that they're capable of being in the wrong. While their journalists are on twitter harassing people and baiting the minority into "flame wars" which they then use to play the victim and justify their stance. It's a vicious cycle.

Also, the majority of GamerGate doesn't condone harassment and I've actively seen people trying to police it with varying luck but you can't generalize the whole of GamerGate for those actions anymore than you can generalize the whole of anonymous for something. The anonymous that is active today is very different than the one that was first around.

[Bert]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MxqSwzFy5w

http://i.imgur.com/v3JsTpX.png

Totilo :lol:

From that article with the Xbox dev:
http://i.imgur.com/Z7w2eRW.png

[Bert]

Here's a nice infographic for you my pal Rick.
http://i.imgur.com/KVYBXyH.png

[The Rick]

I don't have to "keep up". This war is out of control, and neither side is faultless at this point.

I have to look at this flame war from BOTH SIDES each time I view articles. And Zoe is still one of the things brought up in the discussions. So while you might be miles ahead, many are still back there arguing it up.

You can champion journalistic integrity all you want, but there is a very strong vocal minority that has been lashing out.


But you personally have a weird obsession on this topic. I'd say let it go, but you do you man.

[JP]

B-b-but it's brietbart and they're conversative and everything they say is wrong!

:rofl:

:lol:

Wood for Trees. Or in this case, Wood for Endor.

[Pete Cash]

And I was making fun of him and JP when I posted it in the first place soooo.

You carried on about an ad hom literally a post after making one (in your case a strawman argument) you hysterical child.

[Simon]

You're a creepy dude Bert. Not to mention a clear misogynist, regardless of how many desperate attempts you make to hide this fact. Either you have always held those opinions and this whole issue was just a handy outlet for them, or all these bullshit, biased articles you're reading have brainwashed you.

[The Rogerer]

Hashtag.com

[The Rogerer]

Oh all these info graphics are difficult to read for people with dyslexia or vision issues. Ableist.

Can we also get a bullet point list of terms that Bert doesn't understand. Ad hominem just there, he had 'conflict of interest' 100% backwards too. Just off the top of my head.

[Psycho666Soldier]

I haven't looked into this #GamerGate thing because I just honestly didn't care about something I knew would be ridiculous. So I stumbled into this thread and ended up wasting my whole morning before work catching up in here, and I guess I'll give my two cents.

To me, the problem is the same as everywhere. Yes, journalistic integrity and excess manipulation of media outlets is an issue, but everyone gets tied up in the "FOR THE RIGHTS OF WHATEVER ISSUE WE'RE CONCERNED WITH!" We do need more equality for people of different backgrounds, and we do need people to lighten up with Political Correctness, or the now termed "Social Justice", because censorship is damaging, but the extremists ruin it for everyone. On the gamer side, you have the people manipulating the motive to further their own just like you have on the "anti-gamer" side. You have the people who do make the threats and such, and the people who are misogynist, but the real issue from the sensible people is legit. I'm sure there are some sensible points to the other side, but I agree completely with the pure, core idea behind #GamerGate. It's the people who can not grow up or are too violent for rational discussion that ruin it for everyone, and of course, those people get the exposure, which again just ties into censorship and manipulation of media.

But on the small scale, it is just video games. So I understand people's lack of concern. But someone who cares for things like the improvement of society(not saying any of you guys don't) would definitely have something to say.

And to be fair to Bert in particular, while I believe there is a bit of a sexist/misogynist/chauvenist(whatever the proper term is) slant to his arguments and leans towards the extreme, his point is pretty fair. The argument is just all over the place. I have a friend just like this. But separating from the people who ruin everything, if I had to pick a side, I'm Pro-Gamer Gate, but this is likely the only thing I'll say on the matter, because there are bigger fish to fry in the world of social injustice.

#BelieveInTheShield

[Cewsh]

I completely missed this thread until just now. It has to be among the least surprising things I've ever seen anyone post here.

[Beefy]

There was no thread until earlier. I took the posts out of another thread.

[Cewsh]

That makes more sense. Good idea too. I was surprised there hadn't been a discussion about it.

[Bert]

You're a creepy dude Bert. Not to mention a clear misogynist, regardless of how many desperate attempts you make to hide this fact. Either you have always held those opinions and this whole issue was just a handy outlet for them, or all these bullshit, biased articles you're reading have brainwashed you.

There was a point where being called misogynist bothered me but so many fucking people have used that, sexist, bigot, homophobic or mentioned "white privilege" as a retort to any accusation with merit that I just don't give a shit anymore. The words have basically lost all meaning and are just being used as a catch all to try to prove anyone wrong. I'm used to it now. So are the women, blacks, asians, and gays that get labeled with the same shit. Some of which I have posted about here.

[Cewsh]

There was a point where being called misogynist bothered me but so many fucking people have used that, sexist, bigot, homophobic or mentioned "white privilege" as a retort to any accusation with merit that I just don't give a shit anymore. The words have basically lost all meaning and are just being used as a catch all to try to prove anyone wrong. I'm used to it now. So are the women, blacks, asians, and gays that get labeled with the same shit. Some of which I have posted about here.

You might think that if you are called those things with great frequency that it might be worth altering your behavior in some way, rather than blaming other people for judging you for your actions.

[Tainted Eclipse]

i am not too up on this topic but i have read through the thread a bit. where is berts "CLEAR MISOGYNY" again???

[Bert]

You might think that if you are called those things with great frequency that it might be worth altering your behavior in some way, rather than blaming other people for judging you for your actions.

The logic you just said I should use is the same shit that makes fat girls in high school feel terrible about themselves.

My actions? You don't know anything about my actions so get off of your fucking high horse.

[Bert]

i am not too up on this topic but i have read through the thread a bit. where is berts "CLEAR MISOGYNY" again???

It's impossible for some of them to grasp the fact that you can dislike someone who happens to be a girl because she's a shitty person, it must be because she has a vagina it's the only "logical" possibility.

[Mark Hammer]

Whoops wrong forum.

[The_Mike]

He knows your actions get you called a misogynist all the time. Like the action of rambling about fat girls apropos of nothing.

[Bert]

apropos of nothing? Let me spell this out for you.

"overweight" girl gets called fat, pig, etc and starts to believe it and develops poor self esteem or an eating disorder as a result.

I get called misogynist, bigot, homophobic, sexist etc, I should start to believe it? I'm better than that whether you approve or not.

Fuck off. You don't get to pick and choose when things are appropriate. It's all or nothing.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Whoops wrong forum.

so the only way you post in a thread about the problem of sexism in video games is by accident huh mark hammer? creepy. clear misogynist.

[Cewsh]

The logic you just said I should use is the same shit that makes fat girls in high school feel terrible about themselves.

My actions? You don't know anything about my actions so get off of your fucking high horse.


He knows your actions get you called a misogynist all the time. Like the action of rambling about fat girls apropos of nothing.

Bingo.

Overweight teenagers do not do anything to deserve the judgement levied against them, aside from exist. Comparing the treatment of them to the treatment people receive when they say things that women, gay people or other races find offensive makes no sense. You are actively provoking the judgement you receive, and your response is not to stop doing that, but rather to rail against the people who dare to be offended.

[Bert]

You should never tell anyone "hey if you get called a bunch of bad names you should probably start to believe them" that is just the dumbest logic in the entire fucking world and so many fucking problems have been caused because of it and I honestly expected Cewsh was better than that but apparently I expected too much.

Like how can someone who champions women, gays and other races even say that? It's fucking mind boggling shit.

[Cewsh]

apropos of nothing? Let me spell this out for you.

"overweight" girl gets called fat, pig, etc and starts to believe it and develops poor self esteem or an eating disorder as a result.

I get called misogynist, bigot, homophobic, sexist etc, I should start to believe it? I'm better than that whether you approve or not.

Fuck off. You don't get to pick and choose when things are appropriate. It's all or nothing.

You don't get to decide whether your words or actions are hurtful to other people. Your intent matters to some extent, but ultimately it's the way those people take it that defines what you did.

[Bert]

Bingo.

Overweight teenagers do not do anything to deserve the judgement levied against them, aside from exist. Comparing the treatment of them to the treatment people receive when they say things that women, gay people or other races find offensive makes no sense. You are actively provoking the judgement you receive, and your response is not to stop doing that, but rather to rail against the people who dare to be offended.

The majority of the people finding offense with the things I say are white people being offended for other people. You should start a club.

It's the whole reason #NotYourShield was started. You can't pretend to speak for other races or genders.

[Bert]

You don't get to decide whether your words or actions are hurtful to other people. Your intent matters to some extent, but ultimately it's the way those people take it that defines what you did.

How about you tell me what these words or actions were that were so hurtful to other people instead of making an ass out of yourself.

[Bert]

Can't attack the argument, attack the person. Like I said, I'm used to it now.

[Cewsh]

You should never tell anyone "hey if you get called a bunch of bad names you should probably start to believe them" that is just the dumbest logic in the entire fucking world and so many fucking problems have been caused because of it and I honestly expected Cewsh was better than that but apparently I expected too much.

Like how can someone who champions women, gays and other races even say that? It's fucking mind boggling shit.

This stance from you is very confusing. People aren't calling you "misogynist" or "homophobe" because they want to hurt your feelings and those things sting more than "asshole" or "fuckface". They're applying those words to you because you are doing and saying things that line up with what they feel those kinds of people would do or say. Your all or nothing flag waving, and furious responses to any opposing viewpoint doesn't make me some kind of bully for pointing this out. It makes you look like an insecure person who can't handle criticism.

[Bert]

Xbox developer on whether he feels #GamerGate is misogynyist:
http://i.imgur.com/S5mycKX.png
full article:
http://nichegamer.net/2014/09/gamergate-interview-anonymous-xbox-edition/

Posting it again so maybe one of you will fucking read it.

[Bert]

This stance from you is very confusing. People aren't calling you "misogynist" or "homophobe" because they want to hurt your feelings and those things sting more than "asshole" or "fuckface". They're applying those words to you because you are doing and saying things that line up with what they feel those kinds of people would do or say. Your all or nothing flag waving, and furious responses to any opposing viewpoint doesn't make me some kind of bully for pointing this out. It makes you look like an insecure person who can't handle criticism.

No, that is exactly what they're doing. Also "pissbaby" and "shitlord." But those totally have meaning, right Cewsh?

I always have furious responses to you because you're such a fucking condescending prick, we've been over this though. No need to retread old ground.

It's not criticism it's YOU trying to tell ME how it is, when I've been dealing with this shit for 3 weeks and have a pretty good idea of how things are.

[Cewsh]

The majority of the people finding offense with the things I say are white people being offended for other people. You should start a club.

It's the whole reason #NotYourShield was started. You can't pretend to speak for other races or genders.

You're absolutely right. That's a very important issue in all of this that is often forgotten. You're misapplying it here, but I understand what you're getting at.


How about you tell me what these words or actions were that were so hurtful to other people instead of making an ass out of yourself.

I don't know what they are, Bert. You are the one who is telling us that people are often calling you all of these things. I wasn't there when it happened, but I assume they had a reason to say that to you.


Can't attack the argument, attack the person. Like I said, I'm used to it now.

You have a persecution complex here that is pretty crazy.

[Bert]

You can't even entertain the idea that you might be wrong about something. I guarantee you have did 0 research. It's hilarious and infuriating at the same time.

[Bert]

You're absolutely right. That's a very important issue in all of this that is often forgotten. You're misapplying it here, but I understand what you're getting at.

I don't know what they are, Bert. You are the one who is telling us that people are often calling you all of these things. I wasn't there when it happened, but I assume they had a reason to say that to you.

You have a persecution complex here that is pretty crazy.
It's only forgotten about by you because you do it all the time. I'm not misapplying anything.

They're calling me and ANYONE who uses the #GamerGate hashtag misogynist, bigot, racist, sexist, mentioning white privilege, basically anything to try to make us give up.

Some idiot even tried to say we were worse than ISIS.

I have a persecution complex? You just told me that if I am called a misogynist that I should believe it. You have had no rebuttal to any of the shit that I have posted in the last 3 weeks. Just fuck off already.

[Cewsh]

You can't even entertain the idea that you might be wrong about something. I guarantee you have did 0 research. It's hilarious and infuriating at the same time.

The problem with this discussion right now is that I'm having one debate, and you're having 5. I'm talking about how if people are accusing you of being a misogynist repeatedly, then there may be something in your behavior that is prompting that. You are talking about GamerGate, your previous dislike of me, fat girls in high school and everything else. I have no interest in discussing GamerGate with you, because I think it's pretty clear that we both stand on polar opposite sides of the issue, and that there's nothing really for us to discuss there. But if we're going to talk about anything, you need to lay down all of this baggage for a second and actually have a discussion. Otherwise you just come off like a zealot who is more interested in screaming their opinion at the top of their lungs in defense of something that no one is attacking.

[The_Mike]

apropos of nothing? Let me spell this out for you.

"overweight" girl gets called fat, pig, etc and starts to believe it and develops poor self esteem or an eating disorder as a result.

I get called misogynist, bigot, homophobic, sexist etc, I should start to believe it? I'm better than that whether you approve or not.

Fuck off. You don't get to pick and choose when things are appropriate. It's all or nothing.

:lol: Blew your cover a bit there. You had me going, it's all very Bert, but even you obviously aren't this obtuse and lacking in self-awareness. A well played wind up.

[Bert]

The problem with this discussion right now is that I'm having one debate, and you're having 5. I'm talking about how if people are accusing you of being a misogynist repeatedly, then there may be something in your behavior that is prompting that. You are talking about GamerGate, your previous dislike of me, fat girls in high school and everything else. I have no interest in discussing GamerGate with you, because I think it's pretty clear that we both stand on polar opposite sides of the issue, and that there's nothing really for us to discuss there. But if we're going to talk about anything, you need to lay down all of this baggage for a second and actually have a discussion. Otherwise you just come off like a zealot who is more interested in screaming their opinion at the top of their lungs in defense of something that no one is attacking.

If you have no interest in discussing what this topic is actually about then you should just leave this topic instead of trying (successfully) to provoke me.

[Cewsh]

It's only forgotten about by you because you do it all the time. I'm not misapplying anything.

They're calling me and ANYONE who uses the #GamerGate hashtag misogynist, bigot, racist, sexist, mentioning white privilege, basically anything to try to make us give up.

Some idiot even tried to say we were worse than ISIS.

I have a persecution complex? You just told me that if I am called a misogynist that I should believe it. You have had no rebuttal to any of the shit that I have posted in the last 3 weeks. Just fuck off already.

Dude, I flatly did not say that, and I do not mean that. What I said is that if a bunch of people in your life are calling you a misogynist, then maybe you should try to see things from their perspective. That doesn't mean you need to reshape your personality to suit them, or that they're neccesarily in the right about everything they'll say. But if enough people tell you something, it doesn't hurt to examine it.

[Bert]

:lol: Blew your cover a bit there. You had me going, it's all very Bert, but even you obviously aren't this obtuse and lacking in self-awareness. A well played wind up.

That goes double for you.

[Cewsh]

If you have no interest in discussing what this topic is actually about then you should just leave this topic instead of trying (successfully) to provoke me.

Your post changed the discussion from one about this movement to one specifically about your feelings of persecution. Honestly, I think this discussion very clearly touches on how many people in the GamerGate movement feel.

[Judas Iscariot]

I have no idea what's going on but this is quote entertaining.

[Bert]

Your post changed the discussion from one about this movement to one specifically about your feelings of persecution. Honestly, I think this discussion very clearly touches on how many people in the GamerGate movement feel.

The whole problem and I've already stated this before, is when people generalize the entire movement of #GamerGate as misogynist or say they condone death threats or harassment because a few people are doing it (who are mostly trolls playing into it). That does not mean all of us are misogynists and I won't entertain that bullshit because it's a scare tactic to try to get us to give this up and go back to falling in line.

If I know, to use a really cheese line, in my heart that the majority of the people using the #GamerGate hashtag and that are involved with it are not a misogynist, bigot, homophobe, racist, or whatever words they want to throw at us then I am appropriately going to be upset by that.

I have almost 300 people following me on twitter and I'm following probably to close to 500 or so, I know what these people are saying, I know what they're doing. This is not an appropriate reaction and that's why this constant misrepresentation upsets me.

[Cewsh]

Fair enough. I understand what it means to be part of a group that is maligned for the actions of fringe members who don't represent you. I don't hate you for feeling the way you do, we just have conflicting ideologies.

[The Rick]

Fair enough. I understand what it means to be part of a group that is maligned for the actions of fringe members who don't represent you. I don't hate you for feeling the way you do, we just have conflicting ideologies.

It's hard being a TNA fan huh?

[Cewsh]

It's hard being a TNA fan huh?

:lol:

Amen, brother.

[The_Mike]

That goes double for you.

Amazing scenes of not making any sense. Bert plays the insane melt-down well.

[Psycho666Soldier]

Amazing scenes of not making any sense. Bert plays the insane melt-down well.

Do you legitimately believe he's faking it for the lol's or are you just having a go at him?

[Bill Casey]

Now she's got Adam Sessler claiming that he's "watching hack attempts live", which simply isn't possible.
Uhhh...
Yeah it is, Bert...

[Cewsh]

If "growing up" means letting people get away with lying for attention and going against the values they falsely represent themselves with then call me Peter Pan.

I'm reading through this thread now, and this post prompted a question for you, Bert. You accuse people of "white knighting" quite a bit, but isn't this the same thing for the opposite cause? Black knighting, maybe?

[Bert]

Uhhh...
Yeah it is, Bert...

You mean checking your email and seeing password attempts made? That really shouldn't be considered hacking.

[Bert]

I'm reading through this thread now, and this post prompted a question for you, Bert. You accuse people of "white knighting" quite a bit, but isn't this the same thing for the opposite cause? Black knighting, maybe?

White Knighting is for a person. Anita, Zoe, etc, and usually the people are friends with them and don't care about the validity of the accusations (even if they're supposed to be journalists) they just want to defend their friend at all costs.

Cewsh please read this, this is not a pro-gamergate article. This is a lunatic on "their side" trying to make a point, and failing.
http://archive.today/vT7vp

He deleted it after realizing how crazy it was. It's the definition of white knighting. He even challenges anyone to a duel on horseback.

Am I "black knighting" for defending #GamerGate and trying to get the truth of it out there when since sites like Polygon, Kotaku, Ars Technica, Vice, RockPaperShotgun, Neogaf, Reddit and now even 4chan won't even allow a discussion on it and continue trying to vilify it as a whole?

I'm Martin Lawrence then.

[Kyle_242]

Bert, why do you care about this so much? I'm not trying to start something, it's an honest question.

I ask because I'm as deep into video games as pretty much anyone, but not deep into social media at all, and I find that it has zero effect on me. Unless maybe there's something I'm not aware of.

[Bill Casey]

You mean checking your email and seeing password attempts made? That really shouldn't be considered hacking.
No I mean like with xybershield...
Also, the San Francisco Police Department confirmed the FBI were handling the Sarkeesian case...

[Bert]

Bert, why do you care about this so much? I'm not trying to start something, it's an honest question.

I ask because I'm as deep into video games as pretty much anyone, but not deep into social media at all, and I find that it has zero effect on me. Unless maybe there's something I'm not aware of.

Because the mainstream gaming media shouldn't have this much control over the spin of a story. They refused to cover The Fine Young Capitalists indiegogo because it doesn't match the brand of feminism they want to portray and Zoe Quinn made up accusations against them which they (the "gaming journalists") took at her word without doing any research. Then Zoe created her own fundraiser "Rebel Jam", which funds go into her own personal paypal and there has been no mention of anything coming from since and no one bats an eye.

Also there's the accusations of collusion when it comes to IGF and the judges investing money in Fez which won. 7 judges were investors in it while 2 were sexual partners, but that's no big deal apparently.

The censorship going on about this has been insane. Thousands of posts were deleted on reddit after Zoe Quinn talked to a mod and asked him to. You get banned on NeoGAF for going against the hivemind and I won't label him a misogynist but this article does (http://www.doomedsince1889.com/2014/08/12/neogaf-owner-tyler-malka-is-a-misogynist/). Now conveniently after Moot attended the xoxo fest in which Anita Sarkessian spoke dicussion of #GamerGate is no longer allowed on 4chan. The Escapist was taking part in this but co-founder Archon saw the error of his ways and is now allowing discussion.

Then there was the influx of sites posting articles about how "Gamers are dead" which all dropped within a 48 hour time period. Led by one Leigh Alexander of Gamasutra who if anyone can be objective is just a horrible person possibly a racist and definitely a hypocrite.
https://archive.today/19yPM
https://archive.today/dTNyF
https://archive.today/PMr2W
https://archive.today/hXsWw
There were 10+ articles about this shit and they called gamers misogynyists among a lot of other names.

Then #GamerGate was accused of being straight white men. Which is still happening apparently. So Jason Miller (no Mark Hammer, it's not Mayhem, he's black) who follows me and I him on twitter, came up with the hashtag #NotYourShield to show these people that they were women, non-whites and gay/lesbian and that these mostly white journalists can't use their ethnicity or sexual preference as a shield to hide behind while pretending to "defend" them from the big bad misogynists gamers.

And the fact that Xbox, Ubisoft and a bunch of smaller indie devs are showing support (even if it's anonymously because they're afraid of backlash) should in my eyes show anyone that this is a movement worth fighting for. Here's the thoughts of some of those:
http://nichegamer.net/2014/09/real-gamedevs-sound-off-regarding-the-gamergate-controversy/

Full disclosure that I paraphrased some of that #GamerGate infographic, there's a lot of ground to cover and a lot has happened.

Oh and this story just came out today: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/09/18/The-emails-that-prove-video-games-journalism-must-be-reformed
In which someone thinks its a good idea to send Zoe Quinn a "feel better" card from a group of journalists. Kyle Orland of Ars Technica was in favor of the idea. Mike Futter of Game Informer at least has the sense to see it's a bad idea.
The full email dump from that thread was also made available today:
http://pastebin.com/h7AncZTE

It is nice to see that there are still some people with common sense.