Euro 2016

[Simon]

Inaccurate title because tonight's game is a friendly but whatever, Switzerland away on Monday will be tough.

Despite all the reasons not to, I'm quite looking forward to tonight's game. The last vestiges of the Fool's Golden Generation (bar Rooney) have finally gone, and the starting line up for tonight has plenty of youth - Stones, Jones, Wilshere, Henderson, Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Sturridge all in the side.

I'm not getting my hopes up because regardless of whether or not they underperformed, this side is (on paper at least) unarguably weaker than when we had Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Ferdinand, Terry etc...but at least we might be rubbish in a new and interesting way.

[son_of_foley]

Inaccurate title because tonight's game is a friendly but whatever, Switzerland away on Monday will be tough.


And also because the competition is in 2016

[Simon]

FUCK THE U

Beefy please edit :ashamed:

[Bad Collin]

Nice one Si :)

I liked this article explaining why tonight matters and why England are going to be screwed in tournaments to come: http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9454554/F365-Says

I will watch tonight, hopefully we can put in a good performance.

[Bad Collin]

Is it going to be 442 or 433. I hope the latter because Sterling would be wasted as an out and out winger. Hopefully Wilshire will sit, Hendo and the Ox should pressing high up and trying to feed the front three.

[Beefy]

FUCK THE U

Beefy please edit :ashamed:

Nah.

[Simon]

:(

[Simon]

Is it going to be 442 or 433. I hope the latter because Sterling would be wasted as an out and out winger. Hopefully Wilshire will sit, Hendo and the Ox should pressing high up and trying to feed the front three.

4-4-2 with Ox and Sterling on the wings.

[Bad Collin]

Sounds shit

[Simon]

Change the title Beefy it's stressing me out.

[Andy]

This is abysmal.

[RFF Champ]

1st half it was good but they don't take enough shots. 2nd half has been terrible.

[RuneEdge]

Some of the passing between the players is good, but I think we're still lacking that one man who can make the final ball to unlock the defence. We move the ball around quite well at times, but in the end we resort to taking it out wide and whipping the cross in.

[Andy]

Sterling is such an exciting player, he has to play in the middle.

[RFF Champ]

Some of the passing between the players is good, but I think we're still lacking that one man who can make the final ball to unlock the defence. We move the ball around quite well at times, but in the end we resort to taking it out wide and whipping the cross in.

It's Welbeck who is crucial to the team because he's the most direct forward. He's always looking for one pass or flick to put someone through on goal or angling himself for a shot. The rest of them, as good as they are, all try and overdo it.

Rooney's role and performance was a strange one tonight. He held up the ball well at times but generally he didn't get that involved in the play deeper and he wasn't running in behind or getting the ball on the edge of the area to shoot. He seemed wasted and aside from dropping him I'm not sure what the solution is.

[RFF Champ]

That Lamela finish is a fucking gem.

[RuneEdge]

It's Welbeck who is crucial to the team because he's the most direct forward. He's always looking for one pass or flick to put someone through on goal or angling himself for a shot. The rest of them, as good as they are, all try and overdo it.

Rooney's role and performance was a strange one tonight. He held up the ball well at times but generally he didn't get that involved in the play deeper and he wasn't running in behind or getting the ball on the edge of the area to shoot. He seemed wasted and aside from dropping him I'm not sure what the solution is.
Have we even had a chance to see Welbeck and Sturridge together for a good period of a match? You'd think that partnership would work. But now with Rooney as captain, we probably wont get it see it happen.

I thought Oxlade-Chamberlain was good. I'd rather play him out wide than Welbeck (like he did in the WC).



That Lamela finish is a fucking gem.
How about that Di Maria assist for the Aguero goal. :yes:

[Simon]

Sterling is too good. Interestingly he seems to be the go-to guy now for England with Rooney somewhat peripheral. Extraordinary talent.

[son_of_foley]

Rooney needs to work out what the fuck he wants to do with his career. He seems like he is in freefall. If he's playing upfront he needs to be more effective. United have some very creative players now that will make chances for him but his runs on Saturday were ludicrous

[RuneEdge]

He has the striker's ability, but probably not the mentality. At this stage in his career, it's probably best to work with what he has than to try and get him to be and out and out striker again.

[son_of_foley]

He has the striker's ability, but probably not the mentality. At this stage in his career, it's probably best to work with what he has than to try and get him to be and out and out striker again.

So you play him as a limp and ineffective number 10?

[Beefy]

He is a striker. This idea of him as a versatile forward who can play behind the striker, out wide or even in midfield isn't doing him, England or Manchester United any favours.

[RuneEdge]

So what are we supposed to do? Drop Sturridge and play Rooney alone up front?

[RFF Champ]

He is a striker. This idea of him as a versatile forward who can play behind the striker, out wide or even in midfield isn't doing him, England or Manchester United any favours.

He was playing on the shoulder of the defenders for long portions last night and didn't look the part. He was making no movement beyond defenders nor was he looling for a shot when in the area. If that's his position then he needs to offer a lot more attacking instinct to shit up defenders because last night it was a simple job to mark him in that role.

[Beefy]

So what are we supposed to do? Drop Sturridge and play Rooney alone up front?

If we're playing two strikers then Hodgson needs to pick the best two. If we're playing one striker then Hodgson needs to pick his best striker.

If that isn't Wayne Rooney then he shouldn't be in the team.

[Beefy]

He was playing on the shoulder of the defenders for long portions last night and didn't look the part. He was making no movement beyond defenders nor was he looling for a shot when in the area. If that's his position then he needs to offer a lot more attacking instinct to shit up defenders because last night it was a simple job to mark him in that role.

As I said, I don't think shunting him around to help squeeze him or other players into the side is doing anyone any favours, including him.

[Simon]

Isn't the point that it DOES do him a favour by keeping him in the team when he doesn't warrant it?

[Beefy]

If he was playing up front then he might warrant it. As it is he has spent two years at least now playing most games out of position.

I'd have him in the team as a striker, personally. But if Hodgson and Van Gaal are making a mistake shoe-horning him into their sides ahead of more capable alternatives then they'll both suffer the consequences of that.

[RuneEdge]

To be fair, LvG is playing him as a striker. Mata now occupies the role that Rooney previously did. The issue in the past had always been that we needed that creative player behind the striker, but at the same time we needed two strikers on the field in Rooney and RVP. That's where the idea of 3-4-1-2/3-5-2 came in. I suppose with the signing of Falcao its all gone out the window, but I was actually looking forward to seeing how Rooney performs alongside another striker and also without the responsibility of having to play just off the forwards.

With England it's different. We wont be playing with 3 defenders. So if Rooney was to play as an out and out striker alongside Sturridge, you have to go 4-4-2 and all the responsibility now falls on the wingers to create chances.

I don't know if I want to see that again. I prefer us to be playing through the middle.

[Simon]

Am I the only person who at least saw a few positives last night? Sterling did well, Henderson now looks like a real authority in midfield with Gerrard gone (incidentally I read yesterday that Henderson is now Liverpool's vice captain, which is huge), Hart was impressive, Stones and Jones did well...the overall performance wasn't great (though nowhere near as bad as people were making out IMO) but the fact that a few players immediately upped their game in the absence of the old guard was uplifting. Delph did well when he came on too.

[MMH]

Am I the only person who at least saw a few positives last night? Sterling did well, Henderson now looks like a real authority in midfield with Gerrard gone (incidentally I read yesterday that Henderson is now Liverpool's vice captain, which is huge), Hart was impressive, Stones and Jones did well...the overall performance wasn't great (though nowhere near as bad as people were making out IMO) but the fact that a few players immediately upped their game in the absence of the old guard was uplifting. Delph did well when he came on too.

I thought they looked pretty good in the first half. Possession wise the passing was intelligent and they were not trying to force things like England have always done, ie pass, pass, pass, hollywood ball to nobody.

Sterling looked really sharp, Sturridge again showed he has a lot more ability than people give him credit for and I thought Oxlade Chamberlain looked good too. Stones did fine in a position he isnt suited for. Hes a centre back.

[The Rosk]

I thought the 15 minutes when Welbeck and Delph came on were quite exciting. Quick incisive football. Nothing mind-blowing, just young fast lads having a go at people. Why not.

[Bad Collin]

We played well when we were moving it around outside the box. We never looked like creating chances from crosses. Sterling was wasted on the wing, he needs to be on the left of a front three or as a number 10. We all know that Hodgson is a dinosaur but these quotes really worried me:


"I've learned that the players are anxious to defend more aggressively and be more compact in their play," he said.
"These young players are prepared to take the responsibility, to receive the ball under pressure.
"I also learned from these players that we are not restricted to playing one particular way."

Fucking hell, he is learning the modern game from his players?

[Simon]

If he was playing up front then he might warrant it. As it is he has spent two years at least now playing most games out of position.

I'd have him in the team as a striker, personally. But if Hodgson and Van Gaal are making a mistake shoe-horning him into their sides ahead of more capable alternatives then they'll both suffer the consequences of that.

Sturridge possibly out on Monday now, allowing Sterling to play off Rooney :yes:

[RuneEdge]

Assuming we actually go ahead with that idea. Seeing how it's a competitive game, would you take that risk?
We probably should've tried that in the friendly IMO.

I'm not really doubting Sterling's ability in the center or Rooney up front. Im just not sure how those changes could affect the rest of the team. Who plays where Sterling used to play?

[RFF Champ]

Welbeck probably, he's performed very well for England since Woy arrived.

[RFF Champ]

Trap had it right. These attempts to play out from the back by Ireland are catastrophic.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Seamus Coleman and James McCarthy would be on the bench here behind Stephen Kelly and Paul Green if Trap was still about. Defence looks awful but the midfield looks better. Great left foot finish from McGeady and nice to see a central midfielder moving forward onto the ball instead of sitting 5 yards in front of his own box.

Fuck knows what Wilson was trying a few minutes ago.

[RFF Champ]

Tidy finish after a perfectly weighted pass. Nice goal.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I know it's only Georgia but it's still nice seeing Ireland players looking to pass it and keep the ball patiently rather than knock it back to the keeper for a long twat up the pitch.

[RFF Champ]

Georgia were pretty hot on pressing the defence early on and it put the shits up them, not sure why they've given up on that because the midfield is probing pretty well whenever they get chance to settle on the ball.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

It's hard to keep that sort of effort up, they probably just can't be arsed. They aren't a good team. Georgia have had handy teams over the years actually but this isn't one of them. That said, any team has a chance when Ward and Wilson are in the opposition defence. Not a big fan of Forde either.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That's a ridiculous strike. Not sure why Ward backed off him though. Goalkeeper should have done better too, not sure what he was supposed to be doing.

[son_of_foley]

We're playing quite well just not doing it in final third

[RFF Champ]

Dickie Dunne would already have a massive graze down his leg from this running track.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Or on his face.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

There's some tripe being served up now. McCarthy isn't being used properly here. The formation needs adjusting to get McCarthy on the ball deeper and get the ball to McGeady and Coleman in dangerous positions. If MON doesn't change the shape soon, Georgia are going to win.

[RFF Champ]

Great goal by Norn, where did that Lafferty turn of pace come from??

[RFF Champ]

Might as well have Paul Green on with the speed this midfield is playing at.

[RFF Champ]

Haha Lafferty! Shinned it!

[RFF Champ]

And that's proper from Mcgeady.

[son_of_foley]

Had 3 bets on ( all singles)

Norn iron to win
Over 1.5 goals
Big lanky lafferty to score anytime

Buzzing. Kyle deserved that worked his arse off. Time to grow up now and be that player we need him to be.

At times we were excellent. Delighted for Michael.what a fucking sporting weekend for the north

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Great goal from McGeady again but fuck me that was bad to watch. I have no idea why McCarthy was so far forward the whole game, he's one of the top tacklers in the Premier League and a high quality orthodox central midfielder who can win the ball, hold the ball and pass it. He doesn't play with his back to goal. So strange when Hoolahan is in the squad and can do that job.

[RFF Champ]

I'm not sure what Jon Walters offers either.

[son_of_foley]

BBC sport has some comments about ni finally qualifying for a major tournament and best chance to qualify I guess world cups don't count anymore

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I'm not sure what Jon Walters offers either.

Very little. McGeady could go right and have Brady or Quinn left. Or Quinn could play out right either, he did ok tonight.

[RFF Champ]

That's composure from Anya. Absolutely no chance of the keeper saving it.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Good finish indeed but then pretty calamitous defending to concede again. This really is the best time to play Germany, right after a World Cup win, a couple of big injuries and several key retirements. Scotland are giving them a game but they ought to get a point here at least with how the way the game has gone.

[RFF Champ]

They looked susceptible to this kind of opposition performance in the World Cup. Both USA and Algeria had big chances to beat them.

[wardy]

I am fucking delighted with that. There's no reason we can't go away and get a result against anyone in the group now.

[Judas Iscariot]

ajmo vatreni

[Simon]

That McGeady goal was filth.

[Simon]

Henderson and Sturridge both out tonight, massive losses IMO. Henderson has only started two competitive games but he's now one of the first names on the team sheet for me.

Hopefully we'll go with Sterling in the hole behind Rooney and Welbeck on the left. I suspect we'll go with Rooney behind Welbeck and Sterling on the left.

[Bad Collin]

Fuck sake. They Better not injure Sterling as well.

[Andy]

Henderson starts. Along with Welbeck and Delph.

[The Rosk]

Delph will be fine lads. Good job we haven;t signed him up to a new contract before he starts his first competitive international. Fucks sake.

[RFF Champ]

Shortest midfield three to ever play for England?

[Simon]

Delph will be fine lads. Good job we haven;t signed him up to a new contract before he starts his first competitive international. Fucks sake.

Not really the type of player you'd expect to struggle through nerves as his game is quite simple. Bigger worry is that he isn't able to make his mark, but he's well worth the start.

[Simon]

Shortest midfield three to ever play for England?

Henderson is about 6' isn't he? Big lad anyway.

[The Rosk]

Not really the type of player you'd expect to struggle through nerves as his game is quite simple. Bigger worry is that he isn't able to make his mark, but he's well worth the start.

What's his game, in your eyes? I worry everyone thinks he is this tough tackling lad but he's very much a glider. Sweep swoop.

[Andy]

Two brilliant passes from Hart and Sterling there. Delph's gonna get sent off though isn't he?

[JP]

Delph's gonna get sent off though isn't he?

Looks that way. :\

[Andy]

That was fucking shite from Welbeck.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

For Christ's sake that fucking band is back. At no point did I think during an England World Cup game that the spectacle would be better with the monotonous, relentless parping of those fuckwits droning on in the background.

That is why Welbeck is not worth it for a top team too. He has no composure when it comes to goalscoring situations.

[RFF Champ]

Delph gets booked every game and has never been sent off.

[The Rosk]

Bit of passion from an England player. Go on Fab. He's bloody fighting for you lads. Roaarrrrr.

[Peter Griffin]

How can anyone at ITV still think its a good idea to Chiles front their football coverage, worthless, boring wanker.

[Andy]

Stones really isn't a right back, especially in this system. If Delph is getting a game surely Clyne should be too.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Always backed Welbeck to score.

[Peter Griffin]

That is why Welbeck is not worth it for a top team too. He has no composure when it comes to goalscoring situations.

:yes:

[Andy]

Shinned it! Go on Danny

[The Rosk]

What a ball from Sterling.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

:yes:

Did well to score from a yard away with the ball served to him on a plate, I will admit.

[Peter Griffin]

:yes:

[Beefy]

Lovely finish from Welbeck at the end. I always believed.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That was a good finish I have to admit. I do think though that if he hadn't already had a goal to his name tonight, that chance would have ended up in the stands.

[Beefy]

Decent game I thought. Fancied England at close to 2/1 too so that's nice as well.

[Andy]

That was a Thierry Henry finish. Bargain at £16m.

[Andy]

Quite a weird game I thought. The diamond needs work but it has potential, thought all four of them were pretty good. Definitely need the full backs to bomb on more though, it's quite baffling that Baines doesn't do it much. And Stones just isn't a right back.

[JP]

That was a Thierry Henry finish. Bargain at £16m.

And his first was an Emile Heskey special. Can do it all, that lad.

[Mik]

Meh.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

It was a decent enough game, but it infuriates me how easy England's groups are. Switzerland are a crap team, I don't care what anyone says. I hear all the time from hipster pundits how useful they are but every time I see them, they're complete turd and/or churn out negative rubbish and their highly rated players are all total guff merchants. This is supposed to be England's toughest game and Switzerland rolled on to their backs and let themselves get tickled.

[Beefy]

It was a decent enough game, but it infuriates me how easy England's groups are. Switzerland are a crap team, I don't care what anyone says. I hear all the time from hipster pundits how useful they are but every time I see them, they're complete turd and/or churn out negative rubbish and their highly rated players are all total guff merchants. This is supposed to be England's toughest game and Switzerland rolled on to their backs and let themselves get tickled.

They're rubbish. They made France look like World beaters in the Summer. I couldn't believe England weren't favourites.

It was England's hardest game I'd say but obviously that doesn't mean much. We really should take maximum points.

[RFF Champ]

I couldn't believe England weren't favourites.



The 'shrewd' punters thinking they were clever. These games are bread and butter to Roy Hodgson, he doesn't lose them.

[Simon]

What's his game, in your eyes? I worry everyone thinks he is this tough tackling lad but he's very much a glider. Sweep swoop.

He's just a pass and move lad isn't he? Wants to stay away from tough tackling based on today :D

Decent performance, think the preamble might have worked in our favour as everyone had Switzerland down as world beaters but they're pretty average. Sterling is unreal.

[The Rosk]

Delph coming in and putting everything into it with occasional touches of class made me want this team to do well for the first time in ages. Actually shouted a bit for the goals. I'm so glad the old guard has gone because I can't be arsed with Hollywood balls to twats. Direct, passionate and quick incisive play will be fine for me for a few years even if we get nowhere with it.

[Bad Collin]

That was the best England performance for ages. Lots of neat passing, some exciting, incisive balls, very solid at the back. I am looking forward to seeing this young team develop.

Sterling has it all, I love the fact he scraps for the ball with lads twice his size and often comes out ahead.

[Mik]

They need to get Cattermole in there.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That was pretty embarrassing seeing those Wales fans going mental and invading the pitch over getting a late winner at Andorra.

[RFF Champ]

The Dutch are so shit. Shit at the World Cup, shit tonight.

[Simon]

Andorra are up there with Liechtenstein in terms of their ability to overcome their underdog status and be such cynical scumbags that you're still glad when they lose late on against (relatively) big-time opponents.

[RFF Champ]

The way they've spread all these ganes across the week has been an excellent idea by whoever.

[Simon]

Yeah I don't get the complaints about it, a lot of people in the media are saying how managers won't be happy with it, as if the will of a handful of coaches desperate for an excuse to justify poor performances should take priority over hundreds of thousands of fans getting a wider variety of matches to watch. Not that it's a great example but under the previous setup I'd never have watched Andorra vs Wales last night, nor had the opportunity to watch Norway vs Italy, Czech Republic vs Holland etc.

[RFF Champ]

The reason international breaks have been so boring is because all the matches have been on 2 nights and the rest of the week is sparse. This has created loads more buzz.

[son_of_foley]

nah load of bollocks.

Having international games on Thursday and Monday nights is shit for fans who attend them.

I would value their opinion and feel over someone randomly getting to watch a game on the tv.

[RFF Champ]

nah load of bollocks.

Having international games on Thursday and Monday nights is shit for fans who attend them.

I would value their opinion and feel over someone randomly getting to watch a game on the tv.

It's no worse than the previous Friday/Tuesday setup.

[son_of_foley]

It's no worse than the previous Friday/Tuesday setup.

Course it is. Going to a game on Friday night is massively different to Thursdays. NO WORK THE NEXT DAY.

[RFF Champ]

9-5 Monday to Friday is dying. Anyway, there's just as much chance your game lands on a weekend or friday night anyway but this reignites interest in international football between tournaments.

[son_of_foley]

In what way? Because Simon watched Norway vs Italy?

There's plenty of interest in international football across Europe and has been for a while. A lot of countries still value their international team over their league

[Simon]

In what way? Because Simon watched Norway vs Italy?

There's plenty of interest in international football across Europe and has been for a while. A lot of countries still value their international team over their league

The point is that under the old regime if you followed your national side, you couldn't watch any other games apart from early kick off Eastern European matches. Now you can watch games on three different nights if you choose to, with your pick of the best of Europe's action on the nights that your own country aren't playing. I try to keep up with Ireland's games but they have usually clashed with England games in the past, now I will often be able to watch both. I can't remember the last time I watched a Wales game prior to last night, and I quite enjoyed it.

The major complaint from fans about international weeks is that over the space of two weeks you get two (generally uninteresting) games where you would usually have a Premier League weekend and either European or cup football. The new setup doesn't solve the issue - the qualifiers are often tedious, now moreso than ever thanks to the expanded tournament - but there's now a wider variety of games and you can take your pick of the best ones.

[RFF Champ]

I disagree, international qualifiers have been dull for a while and I think these measures are a good start to inject some verve into them.

Increased coverage and viewership for each match, greater chance of qualifying should peak interest and it allows viewers to have a broader interest of teams. I agree that match going supporters are the priority but I don't believe they're getting the short end here.

[son_of_foley]

Having the games on Thursday has no impact on chance of qualifying though.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Anyone travelling to another country for a game is taking at least two days off work anyway with the old midweek games set-up.

[Friday]

Anyone travelling to another country for a game is taking at least two days off work anyway with the old midweek games set-up.

Sometimes you need more time off after a suspicious package is found at Luton airport. :mad:

[RFF Champ]

Having the games on Thursday has no impact on chance of qualifying though.

You've lost it. No one said that.

[turdpower]

9-5 Monday to Friday is dying.

Is it?

[RFF Champ]

It's a Victorian principle and people want flexibility which is afforded by technology and demanded by the public from retail, service industry, medical proffessionals etc.

[Andy]

And some people want evenings and weekends off. It's not dying at all.

[son_of_foley]

You've lost it. No one said that.

So you agree that other measures could have the same impact in improving international Football? I consider the qualifying change and matchday change seperate it's you who lumped them together

[MikeHunt]

And some people want evenings and weekends off. It's not dying at all.

Most jobs are shift work these days tbf.

[RFF Champ]

And some people want evenings and weekends off. It's not dying at all.

Definitely they do. You worked weekends and probably hated it but you still did it? 1/3 of the workforce works outside the traditional Monday-Friday 9-5 framework and it's a trend that's only going to continue growing. Core business hours just aren't 9-5 anymore and most businesses get increased output if they remove themselves from it. It's dying.

[RFF Champ]

So you agree that other measures could have the same impact in improving international Football? I consider the qualifying change and matchday change seperate it's you who lumped them together

I don't think these changes are the complete answer, no. I think they've been great in adding interest and extending the games to a wider audience in this gameweek though and I expect that to prove the case in the rest of them. The day they play on has no bearing on whether a team qualifies or not though unless you're getting onto something to do with increased injuries or something.

[son_of_foley]

I don't think these changes are the complete answer, no. I think they've been great in adding interest and extending the games to a wider audience in this gameweek though and I expect that to prove the case in the rest of them. The day they play on has no bearing on whether a team qualifies or not though unless you're getting onto something to do with increased injuries or something.

I'm not arguing it does. My point was international football was in great health in Europe even if the English fans were bored of their team. I don't think it needed a shot in the arm. Of the measures put in I don't think it actually benefits the supporters of individual countries but instead further monetizes international football for the benefit of UEFA to make a power move with FIFA. I don't think international football should really be that considered about global tv audiences and I don't think there's anything wrong with it being primarily focused on partisan support rather than people who may or may not fancy dipping in and out of a random game on a thursday night. I don't see a problem with Fri/Sat then Tues/Wed for an international weekend.

[Beefy]

Wasn't it done for the Clubs so that they get their players back a few days earlier? I don't think it makes any difference to most supporters.

[son_of_foley]

Wasn't it done for the Clubs so that they get their players back a few days earlier? I don't think it makes any difference to most supporters.

On no level was this done to benefit clubs. It's for money and tv audience.

[Beefy]

I'm pretty sure you're completely wrong on that. I remember all the stories when the change was made and they all focussed on how it was a direct result of the pressure from the big clubs who used to get their players back knackered on a Thursday ahead of a Saturday afternoon Premier League match.

I'm sure it is a happy by-product that they get to take in more TV money but it was the Clubs who pushed for the change.

[Simon]

Why is that a bad thing? Not the money bit obviously, but why is it bad that they are doing it to get more people watching games on TV...surely making it easier for football fans to watch more football is a good thing?

As I mentioned before, one of the major complaints about international week is that you have two weeks where the usual jam-packed schedule is replaced by two games that you probably watch mainly out of duty, and the rest of the time there's nothing on. Now you can watch your own country's games, plus the pick of the rest. I'm not convinced the argument about it putting out live supporters really stands up for the reasons already mentioned, and fans should take priority over the clubs whatever their complaints are.

[Beefy]

"The clubs will be happier because it used to be two weeks for the national teams in these breaks.

"That got knocked down to 10 days. Then it was knocked down to nine days. Now it's seven or eight days, so the clubs, I would think, are rubbing their hands all the time because they get the players back quicker all the time."

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/euro-2016-week-of-football-schedule-has-roy-hodgson-worried-over-lack-of-time-with-england-squad-9148718.html

You need to look at the sub-text, sof. UEFA do nothing that isn't in the direct interests of the six or seven biggest Clubs in Europe. FFP, four teams in the Champions League, 'The Week of Football'. It's all done for the benefit of the same people.

[son_of_foley]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/euro-2016-week-of-football-schedule-has-roy-hodgson-worried-over-lack-of-time-with-england-squad-9148718.html

You need to look at the sub-text, sof. UEFA do nothing that isn't in the direct interests of the six or seven biggest Clubs in Europe. FFP, four teams in the Champions League, 'The Week of Football'. It's all done for the benefit of the same people.

I dont think there's been a change in the fifa rules about the length of preparation time a national team can call someone up for. Is there? Still 4 days before if same continent so the clubs will see little difference in return date no matter what Roy Hodgson may be suggesting.

UEFA are as self-serving as they need to be. They support the Champions League not the member clubs. They are also looking to monetize their international football hence the host change for 2020 and the idea of inviting members of other confederations in to future tournaments.

[Beefy]

They support the Champions League because they're petrified of the top clubs doing a break-away. The move to three/four clubs was a reaction to AC Milan missing out twice in a row.

[Friday]

In terms of watching the games on tv, it's great. International weeks tend to drag when all the games are on the same day. In terms of going to the matches, it's awful. A Scotland home game on a Saturday afternoon was a great day out. The atmosphere will be buzzing. Now I'll have to take time off work just to get to the match on time and the atmosphere won't nearly be as good.

[RFF Champ]

This is the worst group of U21s we've had in forever. Croatia are miles better.

[Beefy]

Gibraltar are the worst team I have ever seen.

[Simon]

Yeah they would get murdered by San Marino...the defending for the Hoolahan goal and McClean's second were hilarious. Not to mention the own goal.

[Beefy]

The own goal was sensational. Danny Baker will be preparing a new Own Goals & Gaffs DVD on the back of that alone.

At least they try though. They got players forward and tried to play football. Could have scored from a couple of corners too. They're absolutely hopeless but fair play to them. They have a game of football and lose 7-0. San Marino keep ten men behind the ball for 90 minutes and lose 5-0 and are no doubt delighted by it.

Fuck San Marino. They annoy me.

[Bad Collin]

I still think teams like San Marino and Gibraltar should pre qualify against each other, what is the point of them getting stuffed 5,6,7 every time they play?

[MikeHunt]

Another good performance. Finishing was dire though absolutely dire.

[Simon]

I still think teams like San Marino and Gibraltar should pre qualify against each other, what is the point of them getting stuffed 5,6,7 every time they play?

Over time they improve. Possibly only marginally, but they do improve. It's only 20 years or so ago that Turkey got fucked 8-0 by England. I know it's slightly different in that Gibraltar and San Marino's populations make growth limited but they're as entitled to be there as anyone else. You're allowed a squad of 23 to cover a maximum of two games in any window, if the managers are so upset about these pointless games cramming the schedule why don't they play the reserves to keep the first teamers fresh?

[Bad Collin]

I think they would improve more by playing competitive games. I know what you mean about Turkey but their non-competitiveness was probably more to do with inferior coaching than innate inability to compete. San Marino/Andorra etc are never going to get anywhere near qualifying.

UEFA could maybe loosen the seeding a bit to give these tiny countries a chance to play each other.

[MMH]

I think they would improve more by playing competitive games. I know what you mean about Turkey but their non-competitiveness was probably more to do with inferior coaching than innate inability to compete. San Marino/Andorra etc are never going to get anywhere near qualifying.

UEFA could maybe loosen the seeding a bit to give these tiny countries a chance to play each other.

Money. The games against England, germany etc etc bring a lot of money into these nations so that they can fund their football in terms of league structures and youth football. A game against a bigger nation could fund travel costs etc for their youth teams for the next few years.

Its not important that they dont qualify or get close. They are nations and they have every right to play games as much as any other nation. Football is supposed to be for everybody.

[Beefy]

San Marino haven't improved. The likes of the Faroe Islands definitely have but San Marino are as negative and terrible as they ever were.

[MMH]

They never will improve! They have a population of 30k and anyone who ever is good enough will probably end up playing for Italy.

They still have a right to play as much as any else though.

[Beefy]

The Faroes have improved and they're no bigger.

Fuck San Marino.

[MMH]

The Faroes have improved and they're no bigger.

Fuck San Marino.

Faroes won their first ever match. Only way was down from there...

[wardy]

Fucksake Germany. We're going to have to win the group now.

[turdpower]

I don't agree that they should pre qualify. They have as much right to play as anyone,

[Bad Collin]

Why would they have a right to go straight into the main group stages? They don't have a right to qualify for the tournament. Do you think that all English teams should go into FA Cup first round?

Anyway, the new UEFA Nations League will allow the minnows to play some teams of a similar size so that will probably help them.

[Bad Collin]

No talk about tonight's game, England played ok but it was pretty dull. Why were Estonia so defensive when 1-0 down?

[RFF Champ]

Pointless pair of fixtures, nothing to be learned.

[MMH]

Why would they have a right to go straight into the main group stages? They don't have a right to qualify for the tournament. Do you think that all English teams should go into FA Cup first round?

Anyway, the new UEFA Nations League will allow the minnows to play some teams of a similar size so that will probably help them.

Well why not? The way it is set up now is fine, each group gets a minnow, sometimes they will pull a shock off. Its not their fault their nation is tiny. Putting them into qualifiers would kill everything the nation does football wise as the money dries up. I think jibbing off the prospect of some youths from Lichtenstein getting some decent facilities so that England dont have to bother with a "meaningless" game to be a bit shit really.

Then again I have just read "Outcasts - The Lands that FIFA Forgot" so am feeling a bit touchy about it right now. Football should be for everyone regardless of status and everyone should get the same opportunity.

[Beefy]

It clearly isn't fine.

[RFF Champ]

The product is diluted and uncompetitive, it needs something to give it some oomph.

[MMH]

It clearly isn't fine.

Why isnt it? What difference does it make to anybody?

[MMH]

The product is diluted and uncompetitive, it needs something to give it some oomph.

Its qualifiers. They aint supposed to be a spectacle.

[RFF Champ]

I love watching England against whoever but these past two fixtures have tested my patience. I've seen one or two people criticise England's performances which is just mental.

[son_of_foley]

So Estonia would have to pre-qualify as well?

How exactly would you orgnaise it? When would the other teams play their games? What would England be doing during that period as you also think friendlies are pointless right?

Talking about the product being diluted etc thats the English FA product. A team ranked 70th in the World beat the #1 team in the world. To put that into perspective Estonia are 81st in the world.

[RFF Champ]

So Estonia would have to pre-qualify as well?

How exactly would you orgnaise it? When would the other teams play their games? What would England be doing during that period as you also think friendlies are pointless right?

Talking about the product being diluted etc thats the English FA product. A team ranked 70th in the World beat the #1 team in the world. To put that into perspective Estonia are 81st in the world.

I don't know the solution and I don't claim to. The idea that elite sport is merely an excuse to highlight how socially inclusive Europe is and shouldn't be a spectacle, as MMH puts it, doesn't sit right with me. There's got to be a better way than this.

EDIT: Friendlies? pointless. It staggers me that we make time for them in the middle of the season, it does no good to anyone.

[RFF Champ]

Why isnt it? What difference does it make to anybody?

The difference it makes is that if these utterly pointless games continue then the appetite will die and these countries won't get as big a slice of the pie. It's a loose connection but look at horse racing, they've been serving up an uncompetitive product where the best competitors avoid each other that nobody questioned for years and now the sport might as well be dead aside from 4 days a year. The prize money is dwindling and the attendances and viewing figures are way down.

[son_of_foley]

I'm not claiming you know the solution I'm asking what the proposal is.

You said the last two games were pointless so are we saying anyone in pot 5 and 6 shouldn't be in the draw without coming though pre-qualifiers. Or is it 4, 5 and 6.

It's good to know which teams are pointless.

The idea of international football becoming a closed club doesn't sit right with a lot of other people either. Next we'll be offering wildcards for the big countries who miss out on qualifying to make sure we maximise tv audiences

[Simon]

The difference it makes is that if these utterly pointless games continue then the appetite will die and these countries won't get as big a slice of the pie.

So to save smaller countries from the risk of missing out on big money matches against top sides thanks to dwindling crowds, you'll just remove the possibility of getting big money at all. Alright then.

[Simon]

Next we'll be offering wildcards for the big countries who miss out on qualifying to make sure we maximise tv audiences

Something Milan's owner raised just last week, insisting 'top' clubs who aren't good enough to qualify for the CL should be included anyway. Pathetic.

[son_of_foley]

Simon,

They'll of course get solidarity payments from the masters table. Maybe down the line if they have a really good player we can have a big money IPL style draft for them to play for the real countries. Allen Stanford could maybe even put a team in the next world cup rather than any of that bosnia bollocks.

[RFF Champ]

I'm not claiming you know the solution I'm asking what the proposal is.

You said the last two games were pointless so are we saying anyone in pot 5 and 6 shouldn't be in the draw without coming though pre-qualifiers. Or is it 4, 5 and 6.

It's good to know which teams are pointless.

The idea of international football becoming a closed club doesn't sit right with a lot of other people either. Next we'll be offering wildcards for the big countries who miss out on qualifying to make sure we maximise tv audiences

I don't want it to be a closed club at all. Did you watch the last 2 games? I can't believe you sat and watched them and thought 'yeah this is a great product, I can't wait for more of this, it really did a good service to the footballing progress of Estonia and San Marino'.

I'm not saying exclude them at all, I can't offer a viable solution and I don't know if there even is one. I've just ordered MMH's book, I hope it presents a compelling argument but I'm not sure it'll justify such an uncompetitive product being considered acceptable.

[RFF Champ]

Simon,

They'll of course get solidarity payments from the masters table. Maybe down the line if they have a really good player we can have a big money IPL style draft for them to play for the real countries. Allen Stanford could maybe even put a team in the next world cup rather than any of that bosnia bollocks.

Bosnia can stay, I like them. Keep Armenia and Iceland too.

[son_of_foley]

I don't want it to be a closed club at all. Did you watch the last 2 games? I can't believe you sat and watched them and thought 'yeah this is a great product, I can't wait for more of this, it really did a good service to the footballing progress of Estonia and San Marino'.

I'm not saying exclude them at all, I can't offer a viable solution and I don't know if there even is one. I've just ordered MMH's book, I hope it presents a compelling argument but I'm not sure it'll justify such an uncompetitive product being considered acceptable.

I don't think about football in terms of a product too much. It's probably part of the reason why the new schedule doesn't do much for me. I have an emotional attachment to my countries team and am invested in their games. I'll watch other games if they are on but I'm never overly fussed. If England were playing more expansive football I think the 'product' would seem better. Are any of the games in the group going to do much? Yet if it was a harder group and they failed to qualify what would happen then?

These ideas of minnow leagues could quickly become the champions league of international football or worse become another oceania with the deck stacked further against those teams qualifying to provide more of a safety net for the strong teams to get in.

I thought you were happy for the fixture spread and increase in teams at the Euros though? Surely smaller groups but more teams qualifying means an even staler qualifying process.

[RFF Champ]

The fixture spread I think is a great idea and will probably result in more money for everyone, I'm not sure I've ever commented on the increased Euros. It has nothing to do with the football England play, and they've been playing well for a while now. It really doesn't matter how they play against San Marino who put 11 men in their box from the getgo.

You're assuming I'm saying the countries are pointless, not at all, it's the fixtures that are doing nothing for anyone. Albania just beat Portugal, a great result but half of a good team has gone to play for Switzerland anyway to give themselves a chance to compete.

We obviously look at it from different angles. I think it's essential for football to be entertaining or audiences won't care. I'll keep track of Group I which is the best group by a long way and just sit shaking my head everytime I watch Andorra score a 5-0 loss that funds a rubbish all weather pitch no one wants to play on and hope someone has a good idea to add some entertainment.

[Simon]

Wales needed a last minute goal to beat Andorra, presumably Wales are close to the breadline when it comes to relegating smaller nations to a B league?

[RFF Champ]

Wales needed a last minute goal to beat Andorra, presumably Wales are close to the breadline when it comes to relegating smaller nations to a B league?

No they didn't.

[Simon]

Nine minutes from time, whatever. They scraped past Andorra. So where does that leave them? Where do you draw the arbitrary line? As far as I can tell only Gibraltar are completely out of their depth - San Marino are a joyless bunch of cynical cunts (as are Andorra) and are a crap team, but they're not so far out of their depth as to make it laughable that they're allowed to play.

[Hlebsfall]

They've scored 1 goal in their last 30 qualifying games. They're utterly pointless as a football team, and just set up to have 10 men behind the ball at all times. I know Gibraltar are a joke, but they were at least trying to get forward against Ireland.

[RFF Champ]

Nine minutes from time, whatever. They scraped past Andorra. So where does that leave them? Where do you draw the arbitrary line? As far as I can tell only Gibraltar are completely out of their depth - San Marino are a joyless bunch of cynical cunts (as are Andorra) and are a crap team, but they're not so far out of their depth as to make it laughable that they're allowed to play.

Sof can't see the middle ground but at least he's making some points. You've made 2 posts taking a wild swing at a generalised comment and making a huge leap from what I'm saying. You've made another post to an incomparable competition where you've stated uncompetitive teams shouldn't be allowed to compete but in the Euro qualifying they can take their piece of the pie as long as they turn up, or am I making one of those leaps there?

Wales didn't scrape past Andorra. The exciting moment of the game was Andorra scoring, they sat back and got dominated for the entire game on a pitch which was spitting marbles into the face of players and the ball couldn't be passed along. Coleman made a number of different changes to try and react to that before basically deciding on 7 midfielders on the edge of Andorra's box because it was impossible to pass the ball on the way to Andorra's 45th consecutive defeat. Did anyone leave that game proud of our socially inclusive attitude and confident that the Andorra's share of the pot will see a big improvement in the next campaign?

[Simon]

Sof can't see the middle ground but at least he's making some points. You've made 2 posts taking a wild swing at a generalised comment and making a huge leap from what I'm saying. You've made another post to an incomparable competition where you've stated uncompetitive teams shouldn't be allowed to compete but in the Euro qualifying they can take their piece of the pie as long as they turn up, or am I making one of those leaps there?The Champions League and the Euro Qualifiers are not the same thing. If you really want to make that comparison, then the correct parallel is that Milan ARE allowed automatically into the Champions League Qualifiers ie. the Italian league system - they didn't qualify, so they shouldn't be allowed in.
No one's arguing that these small nations should be allowed into the tournament proper automatically, just that they have the right to compete on an even footing with everyone else at the start of qualifying.

For what it's worth, I think that for the most part these games ARE a waste of time. Of course they are. I just don't think there's a better solution - splitting qualification into two tiers will only set these teams back further, and there are better ways around the problem of overplaying players, such as managers simply utilising their 23-man squad to better effect by playing squad players against weaker nations - and the justifications for changing it don't stack up.

Wales did scrape past Andorra. Regardless of how you view Andorra's tactics - and I said at the time that I HATE the way Andorra play, going so far as to say that it's incredible how such huge underdogs can still be so utterly unlikeable, and that I was glad they got beaten so heart-breakingly - they came within nine minutes of getting a point, defended well and Wales needed a screamer from Bale to get them the win. By any definition that is scraping a victory.

The issue of whether or not Andorra's opportunity to play bigger opposition can improve their setup is separate - and just because they are not currently showing any signs of being willing to expand their style or risk heavier defeats in order to become a more competitive team that offers some kind of threat beyond just limiting the other team to five goals, doesn't mean they shouldn't be encouraged to do so.

[RFF Champ]

They came within 15 minutes because there was 6 minutes added on for Andorra time wasting. They went 1-0 from a crazy penalty decision and got dominated for the rest of the game. They were playing on a road where you couldn't dribble or pass the ball. Wales won in those circumstances, it's not really up for much more analysis than that because it was pretty farcical and Wales don't deserve credit or criticism for that in my opinion.

[son_of_foley]

Sof can't see the middle ground but at least he's making some points.

I don't see how we get middle ground mate. We either have the members in qualifying (ie all members of uefa being treated the same) or we make some of them jump through hoops before they can play.

I just dont know what the gating factor is that's all. Is it going to be having a stadium of size X available to them (similar to entrance to the football league before). I don't think those kind of restrictions improved the non league because their income was smaller now and couldn't afford to build a new stadium etc without a generous benefactor.

My worry is when you have the pre-qualifier is when? Do we do it during the world cup? Not allowed. Do we do it after? I also think losing 2 games (or 4 if thats the suggestion) in qualifying won't change much. Which of the games in Englands group are offering a great product? Genuinely I can't see many.

It feels more like people want boring teams kicked out? We can't mandate footballing style though can we without fundamental changes to the games rules. What's to say Latvia or Northern Ireland won't become the new Andorra and just lose 45 games in the Tier 1 qualifiers after getting through Tier 2. I fundamentally disagree that excluding smaller/less capable sides and making them play against each other will improve them. I think they will play within themselves at a lower level.

This is football elitism

[MikeHunt]

Of course they shouldn't have pre qualifiers. What would qualify someone for a pre qualifier the stupid FIFA rankings or bozos at Uefa

[wardy]

The more shit teams the better.

[Beefy]

They've scored 1 goal in their last 30 qualifying games. They're utterly pointless as a football team, and just set up to have 10 men behind the ball at all times. I know Gibraltar are a joke, but they were at least trying to get forward against Ireland.

Exactly. Let's cull San Marino for the good of the game and as an example to the rest. Fuck them.

[MikeHunt]

Why don't we just do away with the qualifying and have a massive tournament every 4 years. Fuck off. Don't be stupid. They have as much right to play as bloody England who btw are also fucking bollocls.

[Beefy]

No they don't. If they don't want to try to win football matches then they shouldn't be allowed in the tournament. They lost the right to be considered an equal with everyone else when they took the decision to put ten men behind the ball in every single match they play.

When they stop seeing a 5-0 defeat as a great result then they could be reconsidered.

The contrast between San Marino on Thursday and Gibraltar on Sunday was incredible.

[son_of_foley]

So what would you do?

[MikeHunt]

Nothing. Just leave it.

[Red Dog]

No they don't. If they don't want to try to win football matches then they shouldn't be allowed in the tournament. They lost the right to be considered an equal with everyone else when they took the decision to put ten men behind the ball in every single match they play.

When they stop seeing a 5-0 defeat as a great result then they could be reconsidered.

The contrast between San Marino on Thursday and Gibraltar on Sunday was incredible.
I've not read this whole conversation so not sure if this is serious or not. But if it is, who is the judge of who plays attacking enough football? When we had Gary Megson we would go 1-0 up and then bring on a defender for a striker, often in the first half. I'd like to outlaw that but it is obviously unworkable as it is completely subjective.

(If you were not being serious then ignore this post and pretend it didn't happen)

[The Rosk]

Ahagshaha O'Shea. Amazing.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Brilliant point. Great result for Northern Ireland too.

[Beefy]

I've not read this whole conversation so not sure if this is serious or not. But if it is, who is the judge of who plays attacking enough football? When we had Gary Megson we would go 1-0 up and then bring on a defender for a striker, often in the first half. I'd like to outlaw that but it is obviously unworkable as it is completely subjective.

(If you were not being serious then ignore this post and pretend it didn't happen)

I'm the judge. San Marino are gone.

Great results for both Irish teams tonight. Enjoyed the Germany game a lot.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The Ireland-Scotland games will be huge now. Looking forward to them.

[Badger]

It's been a bloody entertaining group so far. Four horse race.

[MMH]

I'm the judge. San Marino are gone.

Great results for both Irish teams tonight. Enjoyed the Germany game a lot.

I honestly cant remember the last entertaining England game. get rid of them too.

[MMH]

I don't want it to be a closed club at all. Did you watch the last 2 games? I can't believe you sat and watched them and thought 'yeah this is a great product, I can't wait for more of this, it really did a good service to the footballing progress of Estonia and San Marino'.

I'm not saying exclude them at all, I can't offer a viable solution and I don't know if there even is one. I've just ordered MMH's book, I hope it presents a compelling argument but I'm not sure it'll justify such an uncompetitive product being considered acceptable.

Estonia were down to 10 men for half the game! Also Estonia whilst not great are not on the same level as San Marino etc. They are probably in the same bracket as Georgia (who had some brilliant players back in the day and could again one day), Cyprus, Azerbaijan and the likes.

All this pre qualifying stuff doesnt take into account that a lot of the smaller nations players are not professionals either nor will the federations be swimming in money. How can they afford to play these games if there are no games against bigger nations bringing money in?

But yeah may as well kill football in these nations because some bellends in England were not entertained by the two games they saw of them in qualifying.

The book is good by the way, tails off weirdly at the end though. Worth a go for a couple of pence on Amazon or whatever.

[Beefy]

I honestly cant remember the last entertaining England game. get rid of them too.

Poland, Scotland, Brazil, Ireland in the last 16 months or so. The Ecuador game was enjoyable despite or because of the GBH going on on the field too.

Perhaps you should see someone about that memory?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Englan v Italy at the World Cup was a pretty good game.

I'm not really in favour of separating the small nations, on the other hand I don't see how the fuck Gibraltar qualifies as a nation. Or San Marino.

[MMH]

Poland, Scotland, Brazil, Ireland in the last 16 months or so. The Ecuador game was enjoyable despite or because of the GBH going on on the field too.

Perhaps you should see someone about that memory?

Average games if that. England are terrible to watch.

[MMH]

Englan v Italy at the World Cup was a pretty good game.

I'm not really in favour of separating the small nations, on the other hand I don't see how the fuck Gibraltar qualifies as a nation. Or San Marino.

What constitutes a nation for FIFA is weird and very random. They wont allow Monaco in but Gibraltar is fine even though its an Overseas territory. Yet Greenland, which is also an Overseas territory of Denmark isnt allowed in.

[connorboy]

Gibraltar aren't recognised by FIFA only uefa

[Beefy]

Average games if that. England are terrible to watch.

Your face is terrible to watch.

[Ringo]

San Marino is a UN member state at least, unlike Gibraltar. I know Monaco is too but that's a weird one. A Vatican City XI would be a blast.

[Red Dog]

I'm the judge. San Marino are gone.

Great results for both Irish teams tonight. Enjoyed the Germany game a lot.

Oh right shit you are being serious :\

[son_of_foley]

Lafferty showing glimpses again. Shame he doesn't do it more often because thats the same thing he showed as a much younger man that looked like he could get shit done.

Think going to Sion and Palermo and getting away from Rangers has helped him wise up. Hope it works out well at Norwich for him

[Badger]

Scotland bossing this so far, Ireland getting edgy with the tackles. Great game.

[wardy]

I still think Ireland are capable of scoring every time they get the ball and they've got a proven match winner to come on in Keane. We need an early goal in this half or I'll end up shitting myself.

[JP]

Stunning goal!

[Badger]

BOOM!

[wardy]

Textbook

[JP]

Textbook

With a nutmeg, a back heel and a peach of a placed curling shot, if that's textbook then it's theoretical physics.

[Ringo]

The Faroe Islands beat Greece.

IN GREECE.

[Badger]

What a fucking result that is! Admittely on the verge of defecation during that last Irish chance off thebar.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Low quality game of football there. Scotland probably deserved it on the balance of things but some Ireland players just didn't show up. I think we can do Scotland at home, it will probably come down to who does better in the Poland games. Hanley could have had two red cards but definitely should have had at least one. He got away with that big time, the stupid ugly fat cunt.

I can't believe McGeady made it to the end of that game. He got a bit better in the second half but that wasn't hard, he was absolutely putrid in the first half.

[wardy]

Naismith is outstanding. Best Scotland player for a long time.

[Badger]

Big ups to Marshall too.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Naismith was a real pain in the hole tonight, won a lot in the air and held the ball up well. Shane Long was disappointingly much less of a pain in the hole at the other end, normally he's a bastard for unsettling defenders.

[Peter Griffin]

And Johnny Russell, oh wait :shifty:

[Slare]

Naismith and Anya are fucking brilliant and what a goal. Great result

[Simon]

Shit game, class goal.

[Badger]

Scrappy, but still more entertaining than the likes of Barcelona pass about 73 times before they decide to shoot.

Goal is a peach, just recently I was mocking Maloney against Georgia. He has smashed his critics in the face.

[son_of_foley]

That looked a little like Rooney tripped himself up. Unsurprisingly itv didn't dwell on it so I may be wrong

[wardy]

It's amazing how much more effective we are with a good manager. Last year some Welsh cunt was calling us the worst Scotland side ever but apart from losing Commons we're the exact same team. The Ireland and Poland games are going to be massive and I can't wait.

[Beefy]

That looked a little like Rooney tripped himself up. Unsurprisingly itv didn't dwell on it so I may be wrong

I thought it was a pen but yeah we didn't see enough replays.

[turdpower]

He instantly appealed, so I assume some contact was made, but it's not conclusive one way or another from what I've seen.

[son_of_foley]

He instantly appealed, so I assume some contact was made, but it's not conclusive one way or another from what I've seen.

Oh I'm not saying he cheated he probably did think there was contact. I thought it was in real time, replay not sure.

[Simon]

Welbeck had one of those days where he looks unstoppable.

[The Rosk]

Maloney is annoying. He could possibly be a great player if he wasn't a mental homesick wanker.

[MikeHunt]

I'd suggest it's more injuries that have hampered Maloney not being homesick. He's had some terrible bangs.

[RFF Champ]

This is unreal from Bale, Belgium haven't dispossessed him once and he's picking off their players like it's nothing. The touch and finish was top class too.

[Ringo]

He's great. What the fuck was that from Nainggolan though?

Great stuff before the chance that Robson Kanu missed as well.

[RFF Champ]

This is very very special.

[Peter Griffin]

Fuck up Forsyth at it already :rofl:

[RFF Champ]

Keane on before Long was interesting.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Jesus Christ that game was fucking desperate. Ireland have one Premier League striker and he spent 80 minutes on the bench watching Daryl Murphy lumber around like a semi-professional goat. You cannot qualify if you don't win your home games. MON needed to go for it and he blew it. He put out a team set out to not lose in a game Ireland simply had to win. He is no more progressive than Trappatoni, the first thought is always to secure the two banks in our own half than pump it long and play for set-pieces. It's fucking woeful stuff. You don't need great players to have a decent international team, it just takes a bit of intelligence and wit.

Two frankly shite teams. Ireland are a truly awful side but Scotland really don't look much better. Either of these teams would stink up a tournament. Scotland will take 3rd now but I don't see them getting through a play-off.

[RFF Champ]

I thought Scotland would win that. I think Strachan got it wrong leaving Anya on the bench as he creates so much.

I've been a big fan of Fletcher but since his injuries he doesn't offer much beside tap ins now. I'd look at a fit Chris Martin for that role or even see if Mccormack could play up top alone though I'm not sure that'd work.

[Torn]

Delighted for Stuart Dallas making his first competitive start tonight

[RFF Champ]

Peter Griffin will quote this but the more I see of the teams that will likely qualify is that there's every chance Wales go far next year. They've got the right mix of defensive solidity and throwing themselves at shots etc. to go with the star quality of Bale and Ramsey. I wouldn't be happy if England drew them at any stage.

[Peter Griffin]

Why in gods name would I quote that?

[Torn]

I thought Scotland would win that. I think Strachan got it wrong leaving Anya on the bench as he creates so much.

I've been a big fan of Fletcher but since his injuries he doesn't offer much beside tap ins now. I'd look at a fit Chris Martin for that role or even see if Mccormack could play up top alone though I'm not sure that'd work.

Out of Rhodes, Martin and your hero McCormack they do actually have some decent options to pick from besides Fletcher.

A shame O'Neill decided Alan Judge shouldn't make the squad. I can only assume he's too creative for his dinosaur brand of football.

[RFF Champ]

I forgot about Rhodes. Fletcher is probably going to ride that Gibraltar hattrick for a while. I think Martin is the answer personally.

[RFF Champ]

Why in gods name would I quote that?

You can quote it when they don't win the Euros.

[Peter Griffin]

Do you really think I am that petty...you Bamford bummer.

[RFF Champ]

I suppose you haven't been back to when I told you Mclaren was a wrongun.

[Peter Griffin]

To be fair I don't remember saying he was :D

[son_of_foley]

How did laffs miss that!

[RFF Champ]

Lafferty HAS to score that from there.

[son_of_foley]

Healy would have put the keeper in the net with it from there

[RFF Champ]

They could play till Christmas and it'd still be 0-0.

[son_of_foley]

Yeah tbh it's not a bad result. Hungary have woken up. That's the fear now.

[wardy]

God bless John O'Shea's arse!

[Badger]

I'f Scotland win at least 3 of their remaining 4 games , they may have a small chance of 2nd. Georgia and Gilbraltar must-wins obv then beat at least one of Germany or Poland at home. Not impossible, but just can't see it. 3rd is more likely and even then there's stiff opposition in Germany, Poland and Ireland.

[Mik]

Weird to see. England played a qualifier and nobody even mentioned it in here.

[Simon]

Well it basically didn't matter did it, we only needed one win (plus the gimme against San Marino) to be sure of qualification. In a way that good win at Switzerland in the first game was the worst thing that could have happened because ever since then we've been more or less assured of qualification. Not the ideal preparation for a tournament.

Those goals from Wilshere were unreal. Can't believe how bad Rooney was.

[Torn]

Wilshere, Lallana and Delph I thought all played very well. The defence was awful. What has Clyne done wrong???

[Mik]

Lallana needs to develop some strength. Embarrassing seeing him shrugged off the ball so many times yesterday.

[RFF Champ]

Lallana was brought on to offer what Welbeck would have. Welbeck has been crucial for England for a while now as he's the one player who with the majority of his touches in the final third is looking for a shot, assist or to take on a defender, without him everything is much slower.. Wilshere in that deeper role is great against teams who press higher because he will run the ball forward and take midfielders out of play but when teams sit deeper it might be better for Wilshere to be able to offer that further forward, though long term I think Wilshere is offering a heck of a lot in that position.