Na Na Na Na Hey Hey Hey Goodbye

[Defrost]

This has been heavily rumored all day. Anyone who even knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy had heard the rumblings. Spike will not be renewing Impact. This means TNA is done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RoOwSKI7M

[The Rick]

Not if there is another network that is willing to be a taker. They still get a decent rating for cable programing. I'm not the biggest fan of TNA, but I don't want to see it die.

[Defrost]

Meltzer just said on the Law that a lot of this is about the Russo stuff.

[mr sabu]

they really like shooting themselves in the foot

[The Rick]

He could be right, but TNA brings in the magical 18-35 male demographic. A demographic that many networks would probably be more than willing to look at. Regardless of Russo, money talks.

[Defrost]

Spike hates Russo


I mean on TNA look at the lack of interest in WWE programming. If no one wanted that who wants TNA?

[Defrost]

All day the rumors started when the reports of the emergency meeting by Dixie had happened. Dave says that TNA's line is gonna be they didn't want to be on Spike anyway because of lack of network promotion. That is the face saving measure.

[Tainted Eclipse]

Oh well. It's funny how truly little I ever cared about TNA. I could count the full episodes of Impact I watched on one hand. I think the number is three. So what are the details here? When is their last episode? And what was the deal with Russo?

[Defrost]

Oh well. It's funny how truly little I ever cared about TNA. I could count the full episodes of Impact I watched on one hand. I think the number is three. So what are the details here? When is their last episode? And what was the deal with Russo?

Vince Russo was secretly working for TNA. It was a secret because Spike hates Vince Russo. Vince Russo emailed Mike Johnson at PWInsider by accident instead of Mike Tenay with script stuff for Impact. Spike found out TNA was lying to them. Spike was already annoyed with TNA about a lot of things, including Sting leaving after Spike paid the freight on his contract, but that seems to be the old final straw.

[Tainted Eclipse]

And now for the real questions: Will Bobby Lashley be the last TNA world champion? And if so, when is the Bobby Lashley vs. Rhyno dream match to unify the dead TNA and ECW world titles?

[Cewsh]

Not if there is another network that is willing to be a taker. They still get a decent rating for cable programing. I'm not the biggest fan of TNA, but I don't want to see it die.

They won't. The rating is irrelevant. Cable shows are now competing head to head with network programming and the old assumptions about ratings are pretty much moot. What counts now is advertising dollars and marketability and TNA has essentially zero earning potential there. NBC Universal and it's networks wont have them, as they have WWE, and Viacom is obviously not interested. That basically leaves Fox, who have cockteased wrestling promotions for decades with no actual result.

[Defrost]

And now for the real questions: Will Bobby Lashley be the last TNA world champion? And if so, when is the Bobby Lashley vs. Rhyno dream match to unify the dead TNA and ECW world titles?

Sounds like something Muto would book. Main event of Zombie Bound for Glory everyone!

[Defrost]

I'm sure that I am not they only one here who found out about this hours ago, but I just found out how the information came down for one guy to another until it got to the knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy people like me. Apparently the TNA office was telling indie promoters to hold off booking TNA guys so after the news came down they could lowball them.

[BIGFEETS]

It's sad for the people who try to make a living in the world of professional wrestling. Part of me thinks TNA might hold on and end up somewhere like WGN (which almost happened in 2005) or back to Fox Sports.

Then again, didn't TNA just spend a boat load of money to run shows in the NYC market to impress Spike? Money well spent...:rolleyes:

[virms]

WGN is making a play to be a bigger network. They just launched a couple of original TV shows. One of which did half way decent.

[Kneeneighbor]

Yeah they also cut ties with the Cubs after this year... Sad.

[Judas Iscariot]

So you know the TV channel that keeps you afloat hates someone because they find his writing distasteful and even banned you from airing male-on-female violence, you know your deal with them is set to expire and you want to remain partners with them, so you secretly hire this person that they hate while angles and swerves that are his hallmarks land all over your programming WHILE lying to your wrestlers as well and tell them he's not working for you, while their morale is already low and expect to still get a TV deal and stay in business?

http://cdn.niketalk.com/f/f5/500x1000px-LL-f5062bc2_evenpossible.gif

[Defrost]

Many a conspiracy theory that the accidental email was not so accidental.

[BIGFEETS]

However, TNA has always been a comedy of errors sadly: http://taimapedia.org/index.php?title=LOLTNA_History

[G-Fresh]

TNA would be way better if it was made using ancient alien technology.

[Defrost]

I love how this story is bookended. First we hear of it is that Wrestle-1 can't get a straight answer out of TNA about Russo so they call Dave Meltzer asking him about it. Then it ends with an email to PWInsider.

[G-Fresh]

Real talk Tajiri is the only wrestler I would watch TNA for.

[JRSlim21]

Like the bit from Austin Powers, this company can't seem to die so I'm not gonna completely write them off yet. Their only real move is to throw everything against the wall and go down in a blaze of glory with the possibility that someone like a WGN saves them.

I dunno about ratings but I miss G4. They would've been a good fit.




Random general thought. Doesn't have to be TNA but what's stopping any promotion with a good traction and/or the overhead for production costs to pursue a deal with Netflix or Amazon? I'm gonna abstain Hulu

[Defrost]

Awesome tweet

https://twitter.com/voiceswrestling/status/493635563992264705

[BIGFEETS]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t1.0-9/10409407_10204246264660284_4036124206381881938_n.j pg

[G-Fresh]

I'd bust a nut on my TV.

[MikeHunt]

Hmmmmmmm, I'm pretty sure someone will snap them up. I mean they are on a tv station that only shows repeats of game shows over here.

[BIGFEETS]

Hmmmmmmm, I'm pretty sure someone will snap them up. I mean they are on a tv station that only shows repeats of game shows over here.

Speaking of game shows, maybe Spike will replace TNA with this theme song looped during Impact's current time spot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW2oMz7eTkc

:wiggle:

[Cewsh]

Like the bit from Austin Powers, this company can't seem to die so I'm not gonna completely write them off yet. Their only real move is to throw everything against the wall and go down in a blaze of glory with the possibility that someone like a WGN saves them.

I dunno about ratings but I miss G4. They would've been a good fit.





Random general thought. Doesn't have to be TNA but what's stopping any promotion with a good traction and/or the overhead for production costs to pursue a deal with Netflix or Amazon? I'm gonna abstain Hulu
Netflix would require them to film the entire run of the show in gigantic blocks all at once, which would be a disaster and a huge money sink with an uncertain payout. Hulu is used by WWE, and Lucha Libre USA, but it isn't ideal because it has a limited consumer base.

[McBain]

If they are done I'll be actually quite relieved. A bit like when a struggling relative finally passes away.

[JP]

Awful news for lots of people and the business in general if it does go under.

I'm strangely more optimistic than most that they will be able to find a new home. Numbers and demos are healthy enough to warrant a chance. See this going to Fox.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

If they went under though, those wrestlers could make as much (or more, if you're AJ Styles) on the indie circuit... so ... it could be a blessing.


Plus, ya know... Jeff Jarrett... Again.

[G-Fresh]

Awful news for lots of people and the business in general if it does go under.

I'm strangely more optimistic than most that they will be able to find a new home. Numbers and demos are healthy enough to warrant a chance. See this going to Fox.

Mr. Murdoch is a wrestling fan.....

[The Rogerer]

See the thing about "competition is positive" is that things can die rather than stay on life support for enternity. Pull the plug.

[Gibby]

What if they find a way to fuck up fucking up?

[Bill Casey]

Vince Russo was secretly working for TNA. It was a secret because Spike hates Vince Russo.

I don't understand why Vince Russo still gets work...

[BIGFEETS]

I don't understand why Vince Russo still gets work...

Magic, seriously.

People can say Russo is inept, but he has the magical ability to get work. Russo was supposedly making around $350K per year when he made the jump to WCW in 1999 for over $500K per year. When WCW folded, he went to work with WWA but pulled out officially (I am sure he made some money from that). In 2002, he briefly returned to WWE before McMahon removed him from the creative team full time and offered him a consultant salary of $125K per year. Instead, Russo jumped to TNA.

Now, Russo was in and out of TNA since the beginning -- some say during the conceptualization phase even before his brief stint at WWE in 2002. When he wasn't in TNA, he was managing a CD Warehouse in Georgia, starting his own organization called Ring of Glory which put on a couple of shows, writing books, and doing shoot interviews. Again, he's brought back to TNA a couple of times as an on-air talent, head writer, writer, promo producer and consultant always making at least around $100K. WWE also interviewed him for an NWO DVD in 2012, which he appears briefly on -- I'm sure he at least received a steak dinner and likely some compensation. Most recently, he's being paid to work remotely from his home in Colorado as an consultant even if mum is the word while also opening up his own website, which will have a subscription service. WWE still takes shots at him on-air occasionally.

He's obviously a warlock.

[WizoOzz]

One of the most fun parts of the "General Wrestling" Forum has been predicting when TNA was finally going to die.

At least now we can find some new game to play here.

[chatty]

What if they find a way to fuck up fucking up?

Give up trying and TNA just propels itself to the top.

[lotjx]

It sucks. It just means WWE is going to get lazier. I expect they might pick a few talents and WWE fans will say who great they are even though they thought they sucked in TNA. See Jeff Hardy and Booker T as an example. However, it will be to the determinate to people like Ziggler, Ambrose and Barrett. We also have to wonder how much money WWE can actually throw at these guys when we get the updated numbers from the Network on Thursday. If anything, I think Jarrett just hit the jackpot.

Russo, Jesus, he has to watch his back for the rest of his life.

[DDT]

It sucks. It just means WWE is going to get lazier.


Implying that WWE's behavior and creativity ever depended on TNA. For goodness' sake on the night of the supposed "head-to-head" between Impact and RAW WWE put on one of their worst shows ever and people still tuned in to see that over Impact. Hell, I think Impact LOST viewers while WWE gained them.

[Big_Dre]

I hope they can get a deal on another cable station here in the US. It's a lot more convenient to be able to see people I enjoy like Roode, Kenny King, and Gail Kim once a week on TV than having to seek out matches on the internet.

[lotjx]

Implying that WWE's behavior and creativity ever depended on TNA. For goodness' sake on the night of the supposed "head-to-head" between Impact and RAW WWE put on one of their worst shows ever and people still tuned in to see that over Impact. Hell, I think Impact LOST viewers while WWE gained them.

They brought back Bret Hart, no matter how bad the show was, it still had that moment. They also brought Bret back to fucking Dayton, OH. TNA pushed them that night, there is no question about ti.

[DDT]

:rofl:

That RAW was so bad they were literally daring people to change the channel, and not only did they not, but Impact (the main event of which featured both Hogan AND Flair) was so bad people were changing theirs. That is not "being pushed", that is, "laughing hysterically while you skip to the bank".

[Donald]

Don't forget, WWE isn't doing too hot either. It's just a lull in the business. Same as early 90s.

[lotjx]

:rofl:

That RAW was so bad they were literally daring people to change the channel, and not only did they not, but Impact (the main event of which featured both Hogan AND Flair) was so bad people were changing theirs. That is not "being pushed", that is, "laughing hysterically while you skip to the bank".

You are under the impression, people care about the wrestling quality. WWE brought back Bret Hart which is all anyone cared about on that show. You can't tell me WWE just happened to book Bret Hart coming back the same night TNA went head to head. That is just naive.

[Nash Diesel]

Damn what a blow. Personally I think they'll be able to find another channel. They have the consistency in viewership, and there are a lot of channels who might want to mix it up instead of having 4 hour blocks of replays that get half the ratings. If this all has to do with Russo then they get what they deserve in terms of Dixie Carter and whoever else was involved in his return. He's not good enough to risk your company and they literally risked it all and for what? The fans and employees are the ones who will ultimately suffer if they go under because of this.

[WizoOzz]

I hate this "lull in the business" and "wrestling is cyclical" bullshit speak.

It's a business. And when business is down, that ain't good. You need to offer a better product or you will not survive. Even the E knows it, because they have a Board of Directors that I'm sure is telling them they need to step shit up.

The E created a ton of buzz with the network, and have a ton of revenue streams that keep it alive and kicking. But eventually those will run out.

Wrestling is a carny-rooted thing. It grew as a con, and eventually the con was not only seen through, but completely exposed. Now the veneer isn't as shiny as it once was, and the mystique is gone. WWE is fortunate in that they have taken some well measured risks so they don't lose their hides completely when something fails. But eventually if they can't renew themselves and make something original, it, too, will fail.

Nothing, in terms of business, is "cyclical." There are trends, sure. But eventually all businesses fail. It's called a business life cycle. It's Macroeconomics 101, chapter 1.

[Nash Diesel]

Pro wrestling over the last 100+ years has been up and down. One minute they're one of the most entertaining things out there, the next nobody cares about it.

[WizoOzz]

The point being, ND, is that one provider of entertainment can't stay in business forever.

Take a look at the circus. There are still actively touring circuses, yes. But there's a reason Ringling Bros./Barnum & Bailey doesn't have a show on any given network. It's a passe experience. Which pro wrestling is slowly transforming into.

[Nash Diesel]

The point being, ND, is that one provider of entertainment can't stay in business forever.

Take a look at the circus. There are still actively touring circuses, yes. But there's a reason Ringling Bros./Barnum & Bailey doesn't have a show on any given network. It's a passe experience. Which pro wrestling is slowly transforming into.

Right, but my point is that pro wrestling has a proven track record that just because one era is suffering doesn't mean that it can't bounce back.

[WizoOzz]

You're right about the genre as a whole. But no one individual company is going to survive perpetually.

That's my point.

[Donald]

When do you think WWE will go out of business, WizoOzz? Next ten years? 50 years? I've always wondered myself when it would go out.

[WizoOzz]

Possibly not in my lifetime specifically. But once Vince is gone, shit will be dicey.

[virms]

Yeah they also cut ties with the Cubs after this year... Sad.

Primarily due to the Cubs renegotiating the deal. WGN didn't want to pay 500k per game. Comcast showed about half of the games anyways with wgn getting a lot of the ship games.

they are also no longer going to be on won't am station as the Cubs went elsewhere.

most mlb teams will most likely be setting get up their own cable channel like the Dodgers did anyways.

[StoneColdWWE316]

If they are done I'll be actually quite relieved. A bit like when a struggling relative finally passes away.

If they are done I can't say I will be shedding any tears either. The only people I will feel for is the Wrestlers but hopefully WWE,ROH,and even Jarrett will snatch a few up.

Dixie and the rest of that circus who runs that place can go fly a kite for all I care. Isn't funny that in essence that Russo caused the demise of another Wrestling Promotion? Not saying he was the main cause of WCW going out but he was one of the leading factors in it.

[Nash Diesel]

Like some people have said outside of these boards, maybe it'll be a good thing for TNA to get away from Spike becasue the one thing that's true is that the marketing of TNA has sucked forever. You rarely if at all see anything hyping up the show on that channel, they'll hype the fuck out of Bar Rescue but you won't hear a peep about TNA Impact. It wasn't always like that, there were times here and there where it seemed like Spike cared but not too often. Almost the same treatment ECW got, and a little with WWE. Pro Wrestling on TNN/Spike has been used as the lead in to something else that channel wanted to get out there. Whether it was roller derby or MMA, they used the pro wrestling audience to get eyes on these other forms of entertainment. That's why I always chuckle at people who think that pro wrestling and MMA are not connected, because why would Spike use the WWE and TNA as a way to bring eyes to TUF and Bellator?

Idk, TNA doesn't have the greatest people running the ship and the whole Russo situation is a prime example of how idiotic the company truly has been.

[WizoOzz]

Not saying they aren't related, but how much of a benefit has Bellator garnered having Impact as a lead-in?

[Cewsh]

Like some people have said outside of these boards, maybe it'll be a good thing for TNA to get away from Spike becasue the one thing that's true is that the marketing of TNA has sucked forever. You rarely if at all see anything hyping up the show on that channel, they'll hype the fuck out of Bar Rescue but you won't hear a peep about TNA Impact. It wasn't always like that, there were times here and there where it seemed like Spike cared but not too often. Almost the same treatment ECW got, and a little with WWE. Pro Wrestling on TNN/Spike has been used as the lead in to something else that channel wanted to get out there. Whether it was roller derby or MMA, they used the pro wrestling audience to get eyes on these other forms of entertainment. That's why I always chuckle at people who think that pro wrestling and MMA are not connected, because why would Spike use the WWE and TNA as a way to bring eyes to TUF and Bellator?

Idk, TNA doesn't have the greatest people running the ship and the whole Russo situation is a prime example of how idiotic the company truly has been.

That is true, but it doesn't much matter. Getting no support, but prime time airtime on a significant cable network is much better than anything they're going to get from anywhere else.

[ECDUB]

I hope TNA finds a new network, even if that means going back to Fox Sports in an afternoon time slot.

Recently I really started to enjoy Impact again. Taping in New York, the deal with Wrestle-1, and the returning six-sided ring all felt like right moves. Thankfully the Spike TV deal doesn't expire until October giving the company a few months to regroup and find a new TV deal.

[The Law]

Lashley vs. Ezekiel Jackson to unify the TNA and WWECW Titles.

The only thing keeping TNA afloat was that they had a TV deal, so this has to be the end. I suppose it's possible the Carters are just going to keep throwing money at it, but without their TV deal they have no revenue stream at all.

It seemed like they were actually taking some positive steps in the last few months, so this is a bit unfortunate. Then again, in a just world this company would have died years ago. They'll stagger on for a few months doing house shows and seeing if they can find some TV (even just syndicated) and then "suspend operations," never to be heard from again. WWE will eventually buy the tape library for the X Division, Kurt Angle, and Sting matches.

Who from TNA do you want to see in WWE? Is there anyone? I'd love to see MVP back, but I don't think he's interested.

[Nash Diesel]

Not saying they aren't related, but how much of a benefit has Bellator garnered having Impact as a lead-in?

No clue.


That is true, but it doesn't much matter. Getting no support, but prime time airtime on a significant cable network is much better than anything they're going to get from anywhere else.

Somewhat true.


I hope TNA finds a new network, even if that means going back to Fox Sports in an afternoon time slot.

Recently I really started to enjoy Impact again. Taping in New York, the deal with Wrestle-1, and the returning six-sided ring all felt like right moves. Thankfully the Spike TV deal doesn't expire until October giving the company a few months to regroup and find a new TV deal.

Yep Yep!

[StoneColdWWE316]

Like some people have said outside of these boards, maybe it'll be a good thing for TNA to get away from Spike becasue the one thing that's true is that the marketing of TNA has sucked forever. You rarely if at all see anything hyping up the show on that channel, they'll hype the fuck out of Bar Rescue but you won't hear a peep about TNA Impact. It wasn't always like that, there were times here and there where it seemed like Spike cared but not too often. Almost the same treatment ECW got, and a little with WWE. Pro Wrestling on TNN/Spike has been used as the lead in to something else that channel wanted to get out there. Whether it was roller derby or MMA, they used the pro wrestling audience to get eyes on these other forms of entertainment. That's why I always chuckle at people who think that pro wrestling and MMA are not connected, because why would Spike use the WWE and TNA as a way to bring eyes to TUF and Bellator?

Idk, TNA doesn't have the greatest people running the ship and the whole Russo situation is a prime example of how idiotic the company truly has been.

Can we stop putting Wrestling on Spike TV? Its obvious that they only use it for leads ins into their other crappy TV Shows. They did it to ECW,did it to the WWE,and are doing it to TNA. Honestly when's the last time they promoted Impact outside of saying hey look everyone TNA is coming on next?

[Nash Diesel]

I think the blame on product awareness lies on both TNA and Spike. I always think of an interview Kevin Nash did shortly after returning to the WWE when he powerbombed CM Punk and he said that he was walking through the airport and a fan stopped him and said "Nash, are you still even wrestling?" And he had been in TNA for like 3 years lol. Or think of fans chanting "you still got it" to RVD a mere couple months after leaving TNA where he was the World champion....But that can't all be on Spike because TNA should've known they weren't getting the promotion out of Spike so they should have went above and beyond. That and not hire Russo, I mean seriously how fucking dumb do you have to be?

[StoneColdWWE316]

Yeah I remember the interview Nash did when he came back to WWE 3 years ago and the RVD you still got it chants. That I agree is on TNA for not promoting themselves better and relying on Spike to do it for them. The Russo thing just boggles my mind because they knew Spike doesn't like him and yet brought him back anyway in the middle of trying to re-sign the TV Deal. I just don't get how anyone can be that stupid.

[WizoOzz]

I think part of the issue lies with TNA's being oblivious to what it was shoving on-screen while attempting to use social media to promote the show. You can't push shit out to the carnivorous internet wrestling circle and not expect little, if any, positive response. If you go back to the "#AskDixie" fiasco, and look at Twitter with "#TNAGOTCANCELLEDBECAUSE" today you can see exactly what I mean.

That they evidently have brightened up now by booking in heavily concentrated "wrestling friendly" areas, while too little too late, is a glimmer of hope that someone at least learned a fucking lesson on how to run a wrestling company. But this obviously won't bode well for the current roster, who on top of having to travel to these arenas that have only been fractionally filled, now have had decent houses show in NYC only for this news to be thrown on top of them. It's got to feel like swimming upstream in a river of bricks.

Yeah, TNA should have done something as it pertained to getting their name out there more. But they didn't. They thought bringing in these huge names from the past would help them out. But it didn't.

And I'm sure that they think that they'll get picked up by another network.

. . .

[Nash Diesel]

TNA seems so lazy about promoting that they expect everyone else to do it for them. They sign big names in hopes that their name value will create a huge buzz within the wrestling community and people who haven't watched in awhile will tune in, but you can't just rely on Facebook, Twitter, etc. Spike did seem to want to help them but maybe they saw the writing on the wall way before us fans did because obviously they know more about what's going on than we do. They might've seen TNA's lack of drive even before Hogan came along and thought you know what, if that's how they want to roll, then let's see what happens.

Everything you just said, 100% agree with.

[The Rogerer]

Have they announced that they've got a huge announcement yet?

[Donald]

Wait, RVD was in TNA?

[Nash Diesel]

Dixie and Bob Ryder via the twitter machine are apparently saying negotiations are still in progress, with Ryder going as far to say that the rumors going around are "untrue." It's hard to believe them, I WANT to believe them, but it's virtually impossible.

[Panther52]

The rumors may be true, they may not be true. till spike comes out with official news on it, we're all just waxing poetic on the subject.

Personally I hope it's not true. I don't watch wrestling near as often as I used to, but most of the wrestlers I actually care to watch are in TNA/Impact. More importantly there are a lot of people's lives that will be impacted very negatively with losing their jobs that help provide for their families. Some folks seem to be happy with this possibility here. If you don't like the product that's fine, but at least have the decency to give respect to those that are busting their asses off both in ring and behind the scenes to try and entertain folks.

[Hero!]

I wouldn't believe anything coming out of the TNA management camp. They're trying to save face and keep the fans and performers from panicking.

[Donald]

When's the funeral?

[The Rogerer]

The rumors may be true, they may not be true. till spike comes out with official news on it, we're all just waxing poetic on the subject.

Personally I hope it's not true. I don't watch wrestling near as often as I used to, but most of the wrestlers I actually care to watch are in TNA/Impact. More importantly there are a lot of people's lives that will be impacted very negatively with losing their jobs that help provide for their families. Some folks seem to be happy with this possibility here. If you don't like the product that's fine, but at least have the decency to give respect to those that are busting their asses off both in ring and behind the scenes to try and entertain folks.It'll do them a favour. Instead of working in a thankless existence where your boss is an idiot and you're being paid with literally her pocket money to keep her off the streets, except the production crew were having problems getting paid, and their wrestlers had to work second jobs to get by despite doing high risk work on TV. They'll go on to better things, just about any other job would be a better place than staying in the nightmare coma that is TNA.

Otherwise you might as well complain that a war is over and now the hospitals won't need as many staff.

[StoneColdWWE316]

Dixie and Bob Ryder via the twitter machine are apparently saying negotiations are still in progress, with Ryder going as far to say that the rumors going around are "untrue." It's hard to believe them, I WANT to believe them, but it's virtually impossible.

I have a hard time buying anything Dixie is selling.

[hitster]

TNA do tapings next week which will take them up to virtually BFG in Japan. They have a few house shows booked until end of September, then they have a UK tour early next year. They might try to carry on to the UK Tour as a fair few tickets have been sold but with no US TV deal the company cannot really continue.

JB has joked about moving the company to London but few US wrestlers would want to locate surely.

I could see there being a fire sale between Global and WWE, Jarrett if he can get a TV deal might look to pick up some of the lesser talent deals and maybe the rings, stages etc. The WWE would probably be interested in the tape library and may pick up a few former stars contracts if they haven't expired. The Dudleys could be given one last run and would be good trainers, Jeff Hardy would shift a bit of merchandise and could do a Jericho/RVD type role. Angle would get a legends deal and if he passed the physical could have a few big matches. Of the other talent, I'd assume that WWE would be very interested in Magnus, he is still only 27 years old and with the right packaging could be a good fit on the WWE roster. MVP may well go back to Japan as he worked over there for several years between WWE and TNA.

[ECDUB]

Of course Dixie and management are going to insist negotiations are still going on. It's all about keeping face right now.

With that said, I find the TNA death posts premature. The company has at least three months to line up a new deal. I actually explore their options a little in a blog post (http://www.seekextreme.com/spike-tv-cancels-impact-wrestling/) today. WGN seems the most promising, like somebody mentioned earlier in this thread.

I'm also curious to see if AMC might be interested in buying into the company. I ponder that given the unlikely WWE-AMC merger rumors from earlier this year.

I wouldn't write TNA's eulogy quite yet. A lot can happen over the next few months, including Spike TV changing their minds. Time will tell TNA's fate.

[stylepoints]

Trailer Park Boys went Netflix-exclusive around season 7 or so. They seem to be on an original programming kick now. TNA should join up with them. They can really spin that as a progressive move by a wrestling company.

[Version 6]

As others have said, that would require whole blocks of shows filmed in advance which I'm not sure would work in 2014.

And they can't go to Hulu because WWE is there.

[ECDUB]

I wonder how many months of programming filmed at once we are talking about. After all TNA already films how much at one time? TNA to NetFlix might actually work.

[Bert]

Netflix has a lot of the WWE DVD's though I don't think they would want to air programs from a second third rate company

[JRSlim21]

TNA has been taping at least 2 months worth of shows at a time. In theory it could work. Do 3 months at a time even. Or, cut the episodes down to 1 hour shows. I hope they think outside the box to save face.

This is like what would've been if Jeff Katz actually got his shit together and went through with WRP

[Defrost]

http://orlando.craigslist.org/spo/4591854820.html

[Bert]

lol

[VHS]

http://orlando.craigslist.org/spo/4591854820.html

Ho hooo, what a bastard! :lol:

[Cold_Hearted_Truth]

I think the blame on product awareness lies on both TNA and Spike.

This. Both sides have been terrible/nonexistant.

I think TNA finds a new home on another network.

[The Rogerer]

http://i.imgur.com/ZG0CoF8.png

Hire Spud

[Donald]

If they want to survive, they need a complete overhaul. New name, fresh faces. TNA is a terrible name, even worse than a Global Force Wrestling.

[WizoOzz]

Well, on the one hand, we know that once they stop booking tapings that it's a done deal. So, we'll know TNA has finally breathed its last breath two months in advance.

So that's nice.

[hitster]

Would ROH's parent company Sinclair Communications have any interest in TNA or at least some of it's talent I wonder.

Organisations do exist without TV deals but the wrestlers are largely freelancers who will work wherever the money is.

The top TNA guys have probably seen the money that AJ is supposed to have made this year so could follow that route if they wanted.

WCW taped several months ahead in 1993 I recall and guys were coming out wearing belts prior to PPV's for future programmes so everyone knew who'd win the PPV matches effectively. If TNA did go to a Netflix type company, they could tape ahead as they do now virtually and get it down to maybe 5 or 6 weeks of taping a year.

[Nash Diesel]

I remember when they were briefly airing their show on their website, that might work out for them for the short term but they would definitely need to find a station that is willing to take a chance. Netflix would be cool, I think they could pull it off especially like we've said, they pre-tape a good month or so of programming as it is...but how much money would they be bringing in? This isn't the Asylum days, there are guys with some decent contracts that Idk if Panda is going to want to keep shelling out money. Who knows.

[Jay Carter]

If they did do that, the guys could make a shit ton by working lots more indie dates on top of TNA.

[WizoOzz]

Would ROH's parent company Sinclair Communications have any interest in TNA or at least some of it's talent I wonder.

Organisations do exist without TV deals but the wrestlers are largely freelancers who will work wherever the money is.

The top TNA guys have probably seen the money that AJ is supposed to have made this year so could follow that route if they wanted.

WCW taped several months ahead in 1993 I recall and guys were coming out wearing belts prior to PPV's for future programmes so everyone knew who'd win the PPV matches effectively. If TNA did go to a Netflix type company, they could tape ahead as they do now virtually and get it down to maybe 5 or 6 weeks of taping a year.

Wondered about this as well. But to be honest, Sinclair - from what I've seen - isn't really willing to put any money into Ring of Honor; why would they want to put money into TNA as well?

Also, once TNA goes under whatever top talent is stuck in the indies is going to take a bite out of whatever money's flowing through the scene. AJ's extremely talented and was, for the most part, the face of TNA. I don't think anyone there can be considered that at this juncture.


I remember when they were briefly airing their show on their website, that might work out for them for the short term but they would definitely need to find a station that is willing to take a chance. Netflix would be cool, I think they could pull it off especially like we've said, they pre-tape a good month or so of programming as it is...but how much money would they be bringing in? This isn't the Asylum days, there are guys with some decent contracts that Idk if Panda is going to want to keep shelling out money. Who knows.

Without television, I don't think Panda reasonably has any reason to continue pumping money into TNA. My understanding, and it's relatively loose mind you, is that the only thing making money for TNA is being on television. Everything else is a loss. Now, there won't even be that one source of revenue coming in. Unless Panda wants to keep it as a hemorrhaging tax break, I don't see TNA sticking around unless they can get t.v. somewhere. Which, to be honest, I don't see happening. It's been said a ton here and elsewhere - if the E struggled to get what they got to stay with NBC/Universal/Comcast, there's no goddamned way TNA is going to get anything remotely like they had with Spike. And that doesn't bode well for TNA. Not at all.

[Nash Diesel]

Sinclair doesn't seem to want to really elevate Ring of Honor at all. I think Jim Cornette talked about this recently, about how when he was there he had this vision of where he wanted RoH to be within a year and it was like Sinclair gave not 1 fuck about Ring of Honor elevating. You can kind of tell just by watching the show how really nothing has changed since they got on Sinclair, their video package at the beginning is super outdated, it just looks like a local promotion imho. Seriously, the camera work, the shit sound, it looks like a promotion here called 3XW who air at like 230am on the CW affiliate lol.

I agree Wiz, no tv, no money. Did the WWE struggle to get what they got or did they just not get what they THOUGHT they were going to get? I think they still ended up getting more money out of the deal but not close to what they were predicting a few months prior to it finalizing, which I think hurt them getting a BETTER deal. TNA SHOULD be at a level where if they were leaving Spike, a few networks would be jumping at the chance.

[WizoOzz]

They SHOULD be, but they aren't. Especially when you take into consideration the stupid mistakes they've made and their lack of overall growth. Sure, one could say it's an easy million or so viewers on Spike - but it's the same company who brought in a guy Spike absolutely wanted no connection with and tried to keep it their little secret. They brought in Hogan and Bischoff, two names identified with the killing off of WCW, either rightly or injudiciously so. I mean, mistake after mistake after mistake cost them growth in general. Any network worth its salt would look at this pattern of behavior and balk.

The E thought they were going to double their television revenue, if I'm correctly remembering, based on amounts by which other sports related brands had increased theirs. Whatever the increase WWE got was de minimus, and one could argue that the reason why is twofold - (a) WWE isn't a legitimate sport, which it continuously hammers home to its audience, and (b) WWE is consistently on the air 52 weeks a year, several times a week, which kills off any special attraction feel.

Truth be told, one can always tell the state of "the business" just by looking at the WWE. And right now, that just ain't so hot. If wrestling programming were so in demand, you'd see more wrestling programming on television, period. There's not been a solidly reported story on GFW doing anything apart from Youtube videos and "partnering" deals. And yeah, there's the rumored Billy Corgan thing, but from everything I've read that's less a wrestling show and more a wrestling related reality show which is only in development at this point. Right now, in terms of wrestling, WWE fills the niche, fills it up heavily, and apparently tv land is satisfied with that.

[Nash Diesel]

I will say this though, as far back as I can remember I've always had the same amount of wrestling promotions available on t.v. It was NWA/WCW and WWF, and then depending on what year ESPN had AWA here and there and some Georgia wrasslin here and there. In the 90's we had the first 2, and then ECW finally got on TNN in what, 99? 2000? So here we are today and we've got the WWE, TNA, and Ring of Honor. I'm sure in certain areas some smaller promotions have t.v. deals on a local level like ECW back in the day or USWA. But yeah, even when wrestling was at it's mega heights of the 80's and 90's, we never had like 10 different promotions with national television deals.

But I do get what you are saying, I just wanted to point that while it's not as in demand as it was during certain periods of time, I personally have never seen more than 2 or 3 wrestling companies available at a time. Again like I said, some smaller promotions probably have deals but nothing like the WWE or TNA or even Ring of Honor.

[WizoOzz]

My understanding is that territories had their own television deals within their territory through local television stations. Crockett was one of the first to go national with the onset of cable with The Superstation TBS, which, in turn, eventually led to more and more companies wanting national exposure. Followed in suit by WWF, and Mid-South Championship Wrestling which eventually swapped over to UWF, and AWA. UWF was eventually purchased by JCP, which led to the "big three" of its time. WWF continued gobbling up territories, failing with a television deal with Turner after acquisition of Georgia Championship Wrestling. Crockett had the early edge being on TBS, WWF eventually catching on with the USA deal (see: Prime Time Wrestling). AWA dies, you eventually get the purchase of JCP by Turner, and history leads you to the point where ECW appears as essentially an anomaly and would eventually luck into a shitty deal. I could, of course, be completely wrong with this. I'm going by basically memory, am not a historian, and am discounting WCCW and the like by boiling them into just territories.

You don't really get to a "big two" or "big three" company mindset until Vince Jr. acquired WWF after he bought his dad out in 1982, and even then movement didn't really start until the botched TBS/Georgia Championship Wrestling deal in 1984.

Kayfabe and Apter mags gave a perception of a "Big Two" or "Big Three" but in reality it wasn't until Turner's acquisition of JCP that it was a reality. For the most part, looking at the entire history of "professional wrestling" the idea of a "Big Two" or "Big Three" is a relatively recent one, since for a bulk of the time, it was territories who more worked in sync for the greater good than competed.

Yes, I'm sure there are smaller wrestling companies with some level of television locally still, but realistically they are probably paying to be on the air, rather than the other way around. ROH has a distinct advantage in that they are literally owned by a broadcasting company, but said broadcasting company seems to have little interest in exposing ROH any greater.

[Nash Diesel]

yeah I honestly have no idea how it worked for territories, if they paid to get air time or vice versa, that's why I tried to steer clear of that and just focus on promotions that pretty much anyone with cable could've watched on channels like ESPN, USA, TBS, TNT, etc.

[The_Mike]

I'm sure that I am not they only one here who found out about this hours ago, but I just found out how the information came down for one guy to another until it got to the knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy people like me. Apparently the TNA office was telling indie promoters to hold off booking TNA guys so after the news came down they could lowball them.

I can believe that, which is one of so many reasons I'm not bothered about TNA crumbling under the weight of their own spite and ineptitude.


I hate this "lull in the business" and "wrestling is cyclical" bullshit speak.

It's a business. And when business is down, that ain't good. You need to offer a better product or you will not survive. Even the E knows it, because they have a Board of Directors that I'm sure is telling them they need to step shit up.

The E created a ton of buzz with the network, and have a ton of revenue streams that keep it alive and kicking. But eventually those will run out.

Wrestling is a carny-rooted thing. It grew as a con, and eventually the con was not only seen through, but completely exposed. Now the veneer isn't as shiny as it once was, and the mystique is gone. WWE is fortunate in that they have taken some well measured risks so they don't lose their hides completely when something fails. But eventually if they can't renew themselves and make something original, it, too, will fail.

Nothing, in terms of business, is "cyclical." There are trends, sure. But eventually all businesses fail. It's called a business life cycle. It's Macroeconomics 101, chapter 1.

I completely agree. Unfortunately people seem to have taken it into their heads that the wrestling business is some kind of perpetual motion machine and a boom will definitely happen again because it happened twice before. I'm going to invest in tulips, they're bound to come back some day!


Pro wrestling over the last 100+ years has been up and down. One minute they're one of the most entertaining things out there, the next nobody cares about it.

That's not really true, though. Pro-wrestling has been a very different thing in different settings with different audiences over the course of that 100 years. A crowd coming to see grapplers like Gotch would be nothing like families coming to see John Cena and the Bella Twins, and early pro-wrestling didn't have Youtube, Angry Birds and television to contend with. The modern theatrical performance of wrestling has boomed twice, during times when the economy in general was booming, and only one company survived any of this by eating everyone else. There's no guarantee the wheel will turn once more, and what's the big fish supposed to eat anyway?

EDIT: To get back to TNA, I don't see why something like Netflix or Amazon Prime is out of the question. There's no rule that says they must tape blocks of shows months in advance. They could add shows weekly or monthly, it's not as if it's against Netflix's religion to upload a series more than once a year. It could even be a way for them to branch out and attempt to cover live events as Youtube has done, though TNA itself is likely not even close to worth that kind of effort.

[Nash Diesel]

I think you could go back to AT LEAST the 1950's and go from there and see how wrestling's popularity has fluxuated. It wasn't just TWICE that a big boom period happened. I'm optimistic because there were longer gaps where pro wrestling struggled than what we've dealt with. And every era has had various forms of entertainment that wrestling had to contend with or economic situations that made it tough as well.

[The_Mike]

I think you could go back to AT LEAST the 1950's and go from there and see how wrestling's popularity has fluxuated. It wasn't just TWICE that a big boom period happened. I'm optimistic because there were longer gaps where pro wrestling struggled than what we've dealt with. And every era has had various forms of entertainment that wrestling had to contend with or economic situations that made it tough as well.

Yeah, it was twice a big boom happened - Hogan and the Monday Night Wars. Wrestling has always sold tickets to someone but as a national phenomenon and cultural touchstone it didn't really exist until the 1980s, which is when it became a different thing anyway. The 1950s and 60s were a completely different world and it was a completely different product - it was another sport to watch and something local to attend, compared with this national televised theatrical spectacle that it became. Every era has had various forms of entertainment but no era until now has had every form of entertainment available at your fingertips in an instant. There is no reason to expect wrestling to 'come back'. The reason I say there's no reason to suppose the wheel will turn again is because wrestling was never attached to a wheel in the first place. It is not a constant and it never was. It made a big splash twice - that doesn't prove a pattern.

[Nash Diesel]

Be positive House!!

[The_Mike]

Be positive House!!

No, that would be irrational.

[StoneColdWWE316]

I can believe that, which is one of so many reasons I'm not bothered about TNA crumbling under the weight of their own spite and ineptitude.



I completely agree. Unfortunately people seem to have taken it into their heads that the wrestling business is some kind of perpetual motion machine and a boom will definitely happen again because it happened twice before. I'm going to invest in tulips, they're bound to come back some day!



That's not really true, though. Pro-wrestling has been a very different thing in different settings with different audiences over the course of that 100 years. A crowd coming to see grapplers like Gotch would be nothing like families coming to see John Cena and the Bella Twins, and early pro-wrestling didn't have Youtube, Angry Birds and television to contend with. The modern theatrical performance of wrestling has boomed twice, during times when the economy in general was booming, and only one company survived any of this by eating everyone else. There's no guarantee the wheel will turn once more, and what's the big fish supposed to eat anyway?

EDIT: To get back to TNA, I don't see why something like Netflix or Amazon Prime is out of the question. There's no rule that says they must tape blocks of shows months in advance. They could add shows weekly or monthly, it's not as if it's against Netflix's religion to upload a series more than once a year. It could even be a way for them to branch out and attempt to cover live events as Youtube has done, though TNA itself is likely not even close to worth that kind of effort.

I really wonder how well that would work if TNA put Impact on Netflix or Amazon. Short term maybe but I doubt that would last for very long.

[chatty]

I wouldnt say wrestling is the only thing sufferring, just about everything is. Boxing is reliant on two guys who turned pro two decades ago and even the ones behind them as top draws are all 30+, there probably hasnt been ten bnds that have been major in the last 20 years, the music industry relying on the old rockers or churning out famous for 15 minute pop stars, rap.produced a few but even that fell off.

Movie industry has dried up a fair bit and mainly relies on remakes and sequels, not a load of huge stars being made their either but its big enough to make big money so they are good.

TV has thrived tbf, were probably in the peak years of drama shows. Most sports fluctuate, football seems to be fine for marketing and money - cant comment on American sports though. All others seem to be floundering. UFC had to nick their ls from WWE and whilst tueyve had some names, not many have been able to break as a.true star.

I think things are over exposed tbh plus its easy to access things when you want so no need to go out of your way to follow things as obsessionally as people once did.

[Donald]

That's it chatty. That's it exactly. Everything's been so complacent it makes me sick. Take a risk someone.

[The_Mike]

I think the Great Recession scared the shit out of pretty much everyone who produces any form of entertainment. Everyone has been clamouring to place safe bets, milk franchises and suck up as much revenue as possible to the point some industries are starting to contract. The video game market, while not likely to collapse any time soon, is in a bit of a quagmire now with a new generation of consoles few people want because there's sod all to play on them we haven't played a thousand times before, and nobody's brave enough to do something different because it might fail and the cost of production is astronomical. Wrestling, too, has given us mostly the same stories and same faces for years. WWE had the capital and cultural inertia to keep making money through this period, and at least made an effort to do something different now and again, such as Bryan's Yes Movement (with a huge assist from their own customers). TNA's best ideas for exciting the audience was to rekindle ECW and revisit Hogan vs. Sting during the fucking Obama administration.

[LOCONUT]

It isn't economics though. It's lack of talent. There are no Austin/Rock/Michaels/Hogan/Goldberg types anywhere so even the E is dogshit, let alone a 2nd rate fed with crappy distribution during their high times. Wrestling is garbage right now because as cool as guys like Bryan and Punk are, they are not crossover superstar material. No one on the roster is except possibly Cena and even wrestling fans hate Cena.

[JP]

As great as Michaels was I'm surprised to see him in that list. He never really drew anywhere close to the level ofthe others.

[LOCONUT]

Yeah, but he at least had the "larger than life" thing going on. Certainly not to the degree of the others. But he represented a critical piece during a critical era regardless.

[DaSaintFan]

Would ROH's parent company Sinclair Communications have any interest in TNA or at least some of it's talent I wonder.

With Sinclair doing their new American Sports Network. I could see them having a _possible_ interest. But I think they're going to push ROH a bit more.

[The_Mike]

It isn't economics though. It's lack of talent. There are no Austin/Rock/Michaels/Hogan/Goldberg types anywhere so even the E is dogshit, let alone a 2nd rate fed with crappy distribution during their high times. Wrestling is garbage right now because as cool as guys like Bryan and Punk are, they are not crossover superstar material. No one on the roster is except possibly Cena and even wrestling fans hate Cena.

I don't think that's true. Bryan set social media on fire and had sports stadiums without wrestling rings in the middle doing the "YES!" chant, but that only lasted a brief while because today everything only lasts a brief while. Nobody's catching fire for any serious length of time like Austin or Hogan did because there's just too much else out there saturating everybody's attention, and that's another reason so few risks are taken and safe bets are placed on franchises and known quantity actors and the like. I honestly don't think if someone like Austin came along now he'd have a much more significant impact than Bryan. You can't draw people just by being awesome when they can watch something on Youtube or Netflix this very second. The Ringmaster didn't look like crossover material either, but he was given a chance in an environment where he thrived and wrestling was lifted by guys like him and the generally booming economy that allowed people to pay for PPVs and tickets and t-shirts.

[Donald]

Can we as a whole come up with enough money to buy TNA? That would be awesome. If we get every poster to donate $20 or something.

[The_Mike]

I suspect we'd just own some IPs, a tape library and a whole lot of debt.

[Kneeneighbor]

Can we as a whole come up with enough money to buy TNA? That would be awesome. If we get every poster to donate $20 or something.

If wCw was bought for 7 mil I think you could get this done for a mil. However what is left on the contracts you would have to pay?

Maybe I should start a kickstarter

[Nash Diesel]

Even Austin didn't last forever. Yes, maybe had he been healthy it would've lasted, but in reality, he was only on top of the world for like 4 years if that. The thing is though, what made the WWF boom so loud wasn't just one guy, or even 4 guys, it was the entire roster. Everyone seemed to have a purpose, they weren't all cookie cutter heels or faces, they had identities. I was watching KOTR 2000 last night and holy shit, it's like night and day. They had it all, the cross over appeal, the wrestling was top notch, the storylines were almost always interesting and/or entertaining. Nowadays you have a handful of good characters and storylines, and a lot of garbage soaking around it. Reminds me of the early 90's to be honest. Just better wrestling than what we saw during that time.

It really does make you wonder how much of an impact the death of WCW and to an extent ECW had on the pro wrestling landscape. It's almost like you could pinpoint the moment the mainstream appeal took a nosedive.

[WizoOzz]

Looking back with rose colored specs, ND. There is some real, REAL shit wrestling in that era. You're only removing yourself from Taker/Bossman's HIAC disaster by a year. Also, not to nitpick, but Austin's rise was fast as all hell, and he stayed on top once he hit it. I hated everything that was SCSA at the time, but even I knew he was WWE's top draw from at least '96-'02, and the only reason I'm leaving it at that is because WMXVIII was when he was midcarding at Mania, and even then I was wondering why he wasn't in the main.

Mainstream appeal took a nosedive before ECW and WCW closed their respective doors. It's, in fact, why they closed their respective doors.

ETA: In furtherance thereof, this . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tdOJw0AGqs

[Nash Diesel]

Well, keep in mind man that when ECW and WCW called it a day, it was like Jan-March of 2001. 2000 was a hot year for the WWF and WCW and ECW weren't hideous but they weren't on par with what the WWF were churning out.

Check it out though, while yes I 100% agree that every era has had some weak moments, but their positives outweighed the negatives by a huge margin. When the WWF acquired guys like Benoit, Guerrero, Tazz, Angle, Jericho, I mean the wrestling imo isn't AS GOOD collectively as it is today, but they made up for it whereas what we've seen for quite some time in the modern era is great wrestling, with storylines and feuds that are pretty much forgettable. To the point where even the WWE acts like certain feuds never happened just a couple years ago.

Stone Cold, as a true main event player, really came to be after he won the '98 Royal Rumble. He was still dabbling in the IC title picture just a month prior.

[WizoOzz]

2000, from what I can see, is the exact year where the ratings began to decline to where they'd stabilize to now. It's another cooling off year for WCW that sees ECW continuing its valiant but futile struggle, while WWE continued ahead on all cylinders. That being said, toward the end of the year, even WWE took a tumble (even though it can be attributed to the move to Spike - but even initially, the numbers were relatively close). The average ratings for WWE were actually marginally worse overall than they were in 1999. You can however see a very clear falling off for WCW. I don't think that can be attributed to WWE being hot per se.

For further reference, WCW television ratings took a hit in 1998, which was 2 years into the NWO, where people had become rather restless seeing that storyline continue being the status quo.

Also, your last sentence supports my earlier statement about how quickly he rose up the ranks. His push started organically, where he was slowly but surely getting more and more vocal support from the audience, and when he cut his 3:16 promo against Jake The Snake at KOR, he couldn't be denied. Wrestlemania 13 is where he really jumped up several pegs in one night. That was his official push upward - he was in a high profile match (which became essentially the match for which that 'Mania is remembered) with a main event star built on animosity more than anything else.

[Nash Diesel]

2000 for the majority of the year they were averaging a 6.0 in the ratings wheras today they average maybe a 3. For the last 3 months they've barely managed to get a 3. In 2005 they were getting around the same numbers as they are today, averaging in the 3.5 region. 2001-2002 they were getting decent numbers still, like 4's and 5's here and there but eventually it starting peaking around the 3-3.5 mark which is where it's usually at today. So pretty much the last 12-13 years the WWE have maintained a consistent rating for Raw, roughly in the mid 3's, sometimes 4's on a good day.

I think that if you compare the overall quality of the late 90's into 2000-2001, versus everything after, there's a reason wrestling was so popular. It was just THAT GOOD, it was impossible to ignore how great it was back then. Like I said even with some of the dumb ass shit they were doing at times, it was 2nd fiddle to the good stuff they churned out on a weekly basis. You can't say that about today, they have better wrestling imo, but the whole package isn't there. You can't just have 1 thing be awesome, especially nowadays. The whole thing has to kick ass.

[Nash Diesel]

As it pertains to Austin, you said he was the top draw from 1996-2002. I don't know if I can agree that he was the top draw in 1996 and 1997. But I honestly can't fully disagree lol, because I'm sure a valid argument could be made that while he wasn't pushed as the top draw, he probably was selling the most t-shirts.

[WizoOzz]

The specific era you're talking about, there was a heavy emphasis on a lot of the "hardcore" style of wrestling, due in part (if not whole) to ECW's over achievement. The wrestling was, in bulk, garbage. You had a few exceptions to the rule, but by and large these are the years where the Royal Rumble turned into a massive garbage filled ring with trash cans being thrown around and trash strewn about.

The reason it's so fondly remembered is mainly because those of us who are adults now were watching something just slightly above our heads at the time. The stories were more mature, and therefore more interesting. The wrestling, for the most part, was shit.

[Nash Diesel]

Yep. Storylines were #1. But again, I don't think that the wrestling was terrible. It seemed like it depended on who was wrestling who, and 9/10 times they made it work. If you saw Austin v. Chris Jericho, it was going to be a good match because they knew how to play to each other's strengths even if Austin was somewhat one dimensional by 1999. And if you saw it was going to be Austin v. Vince McMahon, again, they made it work and it was entertaining. They did different things to make these matches entertaining. Whether it was a straight up 20 minute match or a 10 minute hardcore match.

So again, I'm a bigger fan of the actual wrestling aspect of today's product, but the total package is lacking unlike 15 years ago where they had pretty much everything working for them.

[WizoOzz]

The total package is only lacking because you yearn for what we were being given then.

The E isn't now what it was then. It's now a corporation - a corporation who is focused on entertainment as a business model rather than wrestling. Wrestling is one catalyst that WWE uses to push its product. As are movies. As is the network and its shows. As are DVD/home video sales.

What we're given now is a much more sterilized product because of the nature of the WWE's business. They're trying to keep us engaged while also catering to kids - trying to make a product as accessible to a 16 year old kid, a 35 year old father, an 8 year old girl, and a 60 year old cottontop. It's a homogenization of the product to appeal to the most broad spectrum of people possible. It makes sense from a business perspective. If you can hook in 50% of five demos that equates to 100% of one, if you can win over a just a fraction of the remaining nonviewers then that's that much money you're that much more ahead.

I'm not saying that I don't wish there were a more accessible product with a more niche perspective, but I can understand it.

I make due with what I've got. It's the same thing as comic books with me, I know I'm not the target demo anymore, so I seek what I can that is aimed at me, or I enjoy what I used to love and anything new that I'm "meh" over, I just avoid.

In terms of WWE, the things I tend to avoid are Randy Orton, Fandango, and anything diva related that doesn't involve Natalya, AJ, Paige, or any other chick that I think is capable of being interesting - which is to say almost all that aren't those three.

I've recently discovered NXT, and I actually enjoy that 1,000 times more than Raw. And Impact - well, we've had that go-round before. But I don't yearn for what I pretty much know I'm not going to see again.

[The Rogerer]

To me, as well, it was the excitement of something new happening. We were getting these amazing matches and exciting shows week after week, and tuning in every week was your only opportunity to see it unfold. Now, there's no pressure for me to keep up. If a match is good I can check it out whenever I feel like it, or I can go onto youtube or the network and watch 1,000 amazing matches that I've never seen before. The attitude era was this uncharted territory where you couldn't delve back because there was nothing like it- the current product is good but there's nothing rare about it, and you could miss a year of Raw and feel like nothing much really changed in the meantime.

I despair a bit about how much people reminsice about wrestling and are completely focused on the past. I think the current 'product' is excellent matchwise, but the thing that's lacking is the experience, and the scarcity plays into that. We used to look forward to biscuits, now we live in the biscuit factory. What I reminisce about is the must see things that are going to unfold. Now feud patterns go into such a formal pattern, belt reigns are long for the sake of being long because of the reflexive axiom that "short=bad".

[Nash Diesel]

Luckily I'm not someone completely stuck in the past. You have to take what you are presented with and find the positives before giving 2 shits about the negatives. I've always been a WRESTLING fan first, which is why I tended to gravitate more toward WCW until some of their top workers left because they tended to have a better WRESTLING product whereas WWF had the better storylines and characters most of the time. Nowadays, it'd be hard to deny how good the in-ring action is. Yeah they've got some terrible workers, but every era had a handful of "how the fuck did they make it on t.v." type of guys, but the work rate of guys from the bottom to the top hasn't been this good in the WWF since probably 2002-2003. The last couple years have just been stellar. If they could find a happy medium with their storylines, which all aren't TERRIBLE, just a lot of them seem directionless, or pointless lol.

[StoneColdWWE316]

I also don't yearn for the past either like these people who are stuck in 1998 and pine for the Attitude Era to come back. Now do I like going back and watching Shows from the different Eras? Absolutely which is one of the great things about The Network and having them on VHS/DVD. At the same time do I want to see over the top violence,blood,sex,and whatever other stuff? Not really because I usually care about what goes in the Ring and on the Mic. I have been a Fan since the early 90s when I saw an episode of WWF Superstars and I was hooked from there.