World Cup 2014 - Group D (Uruguay, Costa Rica, England, Italy)

[Beefy]

Please use this thread for prediction and match discussion for this Group.

[Torn]

:england:

[Simon]

I'm worryingly optimistic at the moment. Setting myself up for inevitable disappointment when we get two decent draws against Italy and Uruguay, then don't win against Costa Rica.

[Ringo]

A friend has to have her birthday on the evening of the Italy game doesn't she? Likely going to miss it now. Absolutely livid.

[Simon]

Does she only have a birthday every five years? If not, her birthday is statistically more common and thus less important than an England World Cup opener.

[BBF]

Even if she does, fuck her. Its England in the World Cup.

[Ringo]

I completely agree but it's hard to tell that to someone who a) has no interest in football and b) is Irish without sounding like a bit of a prick. She's also fairly new here in Berlin and doesn't know many people.

I'll have to find a way.

[Beefy]

What? It's the World Cup? Man up, Ringo.

I'm expected at a work function on 4th July. England could potentially, maybe, possibly, be playing a World Cup Quarter Final that evening. (I know, I know...). I've set expectations already that if so I will not be attending.

I'm sure there's plenty of bars in Berlin who will be showing the football at midnight.

[Simon]

I do feel your pain Ringo. In the past couple of years I have missed some fucking fantastic games that fell on my girlfriend's birthday. Most notably that mad 3-3 with Arsenal that was 3-2 at half-time. Although thankfully I also missed us getting dicked 5-2 at the Emirates when Adebayor got sent off, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.

[Simon]

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/11/manaus-pitch-brazil-world-cup-2014-england-italy

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Pix/pictures/2014/6/11/1402478329287/Manaus-pitch-006.jpg

YAAAAAAAAAAS, take that Pirlo you WALLY.

[Red Dog]

A friend has to have her birthday on the evening of the Italy game doesn't she? Likely going to miss it now. Absolutely livid.

Why are you livid you will be missing a birthday?! She will have one next year!

[Red Dog]

I do feel your pain Ringo. In the past couple of years I have missed some fucking fantastic games that fell on my girlfriend's birthday. Most notably that mad 3-3 with Arsenal that was 3-2 at half-time. Although thankfully I also missed us getting dicked 5-2 at the Emirates when Adebayor got sent off, so it's swings and roundabouts I guess.
If we played Derby on my mrs' birthday she would totally understand we watching it. Maybe not a session after but at least seeing the game.

Missing it completely?! Thought you wanted to marry this one lol

[Romford Pele]

I think we are in trouble in this group, I hope I'm wrong.

My birthday is the day of the Uruguay game, I have already said to the missus if we are going out the place has to show football.

Italy game will be 0-0 but I am worried about Uruguay, very very good forward line. By the time we play Costa Rica it could be curtains

[Simon]

The exciting thing about this group is that it really is impossible to call. I think we can be *fairly* confident that Costa Rica will finish bottom, but I don't think there would be any major surprise at the other three coming in any particular order.

Worth mentioning that while in our country we're quite down on our chances, journalists from other countries on podcasts I've been listening to uniformly expect England to get out of the group if not win it. No one seems to think Italy or Uruguay are much cop.

It's all set up for our usual quarter final exit IMO - narrowly get through the group, underwhelming victory against weaker opposition in the second round, out to a good team in the last eight.

[Clive Plasma]

Me and my friend have played this group on Fifa, and England finished 2nd on Goal Difference. Uruguay finished top.

[wardy]

That's how it worked out in the predictor I done. I reckon Italy will be shit.

[MichaelC]

I reckon Uruguay will qualify (Costa Rica first, then taking on the two tired European teams at cooler climates), and the other spot comes down to Italy/England. If England sit back and try to let Italy dictate (like in 2012), they'll die in the heat. If they go at Italy from the start with Sturridge/Sterling/et all, the Italian defence could be in trouble. I'm hoping for the former, myself. :D

Costa Rica don't have the quality to finish in the top 2, but do have the quality to prevent someone else finishing in the top 2.

[turdpower]

I'm a bit livid that I'm going to a retirement thing on Friday thus probably missing Netherlands/Spain.

But hopeful that because we'll be near a pub I can pop in and watch, can you not do that Ringo?

[Donald]

Not really sure if US bars will show any non-US game. I'm hoping to watch England vs. Italy at one. Can't wait, it's gonna be awesome.

[turdpower]

They'll be sports bar showing it surely? Or English/Irish themed places.

[Chris Scott]

I think we are in trouble in this group, I hope I'm wrong.

My birthday is the day of the Uruguay game, I have already said to the missus if we are going out the place has to show football.

Italy game will be 0-0 but I am worried about Uruguay, very very good forward line. By the time we play Costa Rica it could be curtains

Defo think 0-0 with Italy, Uruguay will win all 3 games. So I think it'll come down to goal difference with England and Italy.

[Chris Scott]

Reports from yesterday in training that Sterling was playing the number 10 role and a lot of focus was on it, yes please.

[Ringo]

I'm a bit livid that I'm going to a retirement thing on Friday thus probably missing Netherlands/Spain.

But hopeful that because we'll be near a pub I can pop in and watch, can you not do that Ringo?

Yeah, I'm going to do exactly that. Not as easy in Berlin since there's not really pubs showing football everywhere like London but doable.

[Gibby]

I was in a beer garden with a friend the other day when an intern from the nearby radio station swanned in with a mic and a recorder to solicit opinions. She collared my friend and asked how she thought how England would get on, so he affected a cockney accent and said England would win the whole fackin 'fing innit. It was only right and proper when she got to me that I was as glum as can be and said we won't get out of the group. They edited me from the broadcast.

group: ITA>ENG>URU>CRA

[Simon]

The interviewer wasn't Martin Samuel by any chance was it?

Yanks on here, anyone know if Costa Rica are any cop? I have a worry that we're going to get to the last game just needing a win to qualify, but Costa Rica turn out to be half-decent and we arrogantly think we can just turn up and cruise past them.

[Gibby]

I'd have known if it was Martin Samuel. I always thought I didn't like him then I read his anti-League 3/B Team article and was genuinely impressed.

[Beefy]

Yeah, I'm going to do exactly that. Not as easy in Berlin since there's not really pubs showing football everywhere like London but doable.

Even during the tournament? I was in Munich during Euro 2008 and everywhere was showing every match. Bars, restaurants, shops. I'd have thought that Berlin would be even more likely.

[Ringo]

I guess so, yeah.

The pub type places tend to be avoided by younger people and I can't imagine many of the bars I've been to showing football but this IS the world cup. If I see games on it's usually a bunch of Turks watching Galatasaray in a betting shop or old German chaps in these dingy bars.

[The Rosk]

Go and ask them if they show Fussball mate. They'll know what I mean.

[Grimario]

Buffon is OUT. Sirigu will start in goals.

[Bad Collin]

Not really sure if US bars will show any non-US game. I'm hoping to watch England vs. Italy at one. Can't wait, it's gonna be awesome.

I watched the first game in New York. It was quite funny actually, they were cheering goals for both teams and getting into it in a sweet but misguided way.

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

Buffon is OUT. Sirigu will start in goals.

50yard potshots from Gerrard all night then.

[MMH]

Im quite looking forward to this tonight and for a change I think I actually want England to win. Ill probably change my mind after 10 minutes though.

[Bad Collin]

BBC are reporting:


Hart
Johnson, Jagielka, Cahill, Baines
Gerrard, Henderson, Welbeck, Sterling
Rooney; Sturridge

[Bad Collin]

It'll probably be this:


Hart

Johnson Jagielka Cahill Baines

Gerrard Henderson

Welbeck Rooney Sterling

Sturridge

Hopefully the three behind Danny are quite dynamic.

[Bad Collin]

Yeeess! Get in there Campbell

[Bad Collin]

Fucking hell. Incredible finish for the second.

[MMH]

I dont know why people are shocked at Uruguay losing. They were garbage in qualifying.

[Grimario]

That was absolutely amazing.

And how Yayas Anogo gets a game while Joel Campbell gets shunted out on loan is beyond me. He was fantastic.

[MikeHunt]

Is it not to do with work permits?

[Grimario]

Is it not to do with work permits?

He apparently got it last year before going to Olympiakos :dunno:

http://news.arseblog.com/2013/07/campbell-finally-receives-work-permit/

[Kneeneighbor]

The exciting thing about this group is that it really is impossible to call. I think we can be *fairly* confident that Costa Rica will finish bottom, but I don't think there would be any major surprise at the other three coming in any particular order.

Never doubt Costa Rica!

[Donald]

I haven't been this excited since the Great Fire of 1892.

[MikeHunt]

Lovely stuff

[Donald]

There goes my 9-0 prediction.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Pirlo is so good, I'm really going to miss him playing for Italy. Just an absolute pleasure to watch him play football.

Unlucky England, should have had a pen for Paletta's clumsy barge on Gerrard and Rooney's miss was terrible but Italy were classier overall. Sterling showed some nice direct play but Wayne Rooney's performance (apart from the assist) was appalling. Lallana really didn't deserve to be the one dropping to the bench.

[MMH]

I was wondering how long it would take to blame Baines.

Had zero help all night. Nobody to pass forward to and link up with and fuck all tracking the right back.

And Shearer has just agreed with me. That cant be good....

[MikeHunt]

Ahhhh, great start. Let it continue

ABE

[Myles]

wow, I haven't watched soccer since the euros and I forgot how boring it is. this game was painful for me... i kept looking at the clock every 20 seconds. brutal.

[wardy]

Typical yank

[MikeHunt]

wow, I haven't watched soccer since the euros and I forgot how boring it is. this game was painful for me... i kept looking at the clock every 20 seconds. brutal.

And yet I assume you watched the whole thing

[Donald]

It was a great game. Myles is just a boring little man.

[Myles]

And yet I assume you watched the whole thing

sort of... around the 80 minute mark I had enough and made some breakfast and sat on my balcony in the sunshine eating and drinking coffee. listening to the birds chirping and watching my pool were more exciting. :yes:

[Donald]

Oh my god I'm so sorry I called you boring. That is just awesome. I want to have breakfast on a balcony.

[Bad Collin]

Myles you are so different and amazing, most other people like football but you don't. I wish I was as cool as you.

England played pretty well but Italy just had the better players up top. If we play like that against Uruguay we will have a great chance of beating them.

[Donald]

Myles you are so different and amazing, most other people like football but you don't. I wish I was as cool as you.

England played pretty well but Italy just had the better players up top. If we play like that against Uruguay we will have a great chance of beating them.

I was watching a US stream, and they said England played well, but lost due to their inexperience on the grand stage. I take it most of the team is relatively new to the team? If so, maybe they will have great potential in the years to come. Maybe 2018 will be the year.

[Bad Collin]

I don't agree with that. Even the young players play huge matches for their club teams and most of the team played at Euro 2012 and before. I think we were just a bit unlucky and missed some good chances against an underrated team.

I'm on the fence about Rooney, he shouldn't be dropped over one miss but at the same time he isn't worth shoehorning into that formation.

[Prototype16]

Tonight was far more enjoyable than anything we managed in the last world cup - some good stuff going forwards, just ran out of ideas in the end. We've still got a good chance of going through, Costa Rica's win certainly makes things interesting

[Bad Collin]

It means that even if we beat Uruguay they could knock us out with a draw :\

[Prototype16]

Also means that we could lose to Uruguay and still go through

[Bad Collin]

If we and Italy smash Costa Rica and Italy beat Uruguay? It's not impossible.

[JP]

Forget the result, that was encouraging. While it wasn't stonewall, we probably should have had a penalty too.

I will take that over any performance in the last two major championships.

We still get through.

[Myles]

Myles you are so different and amazing, most other people like football but you don't. I wish I was as cool as you.

England played pretty well but Italy just had the better players up top. If we play like that against Uruguay we will have a great chance of beating them.

you need to calm down a bit bro. I was just coming in here to say that I watched the Ivory Coast/Japan match and was entertained throughout. :yes: that was a fun game with some intense drama....

don't take everything so personally :)

[HHHnFoley_Rulez]

I was half watching it from my night shift at work but I was impressed in some aspects of England's performance. They never sat back and give up (I know they never took the lead, which is what was on my mind, whether we'd classically switch off), they created some pretty good chances - Rooney;s miss good grief... He talks confidence but he knows he should be burying those without a thought.

Whilst I agree that a lot of the youngsters aren't "kids" in the sense they've played big club games, I think you've got to give them a bit of leeway in that they're playing in a foreign climate, against a more experienced team who have historically got the better of us. And they did well with the pressure of it all, putting in performances they do for their club against stronger opposition.

The left hand side was a concern first half, don't think it was as bad second but it needs work. Thought Barkley provided a much needed burst of enthusiasm for his bit.

Pirlo was fantastic. Just amazing. He looks like The Hound and, if anything, I think he's even better now than he was last game he murdered us. He's everything Gerrard/Lampard wish they were/will be.

I think the group is wide open, still.. We give Italy a game, they were struggling at some points and I think we can take the fight to a weakened Uruguay and perhaps an over-confident (ha, they're not England) Costa Rica.

[McBain]

I thought we did pretty well, but thought Gerrard was pretty absent in midfield which allowed Italy to take control of the ball too often.

Will be interesting to see how Italy and ourselves do in the next games. I think they will probably both go through, but the Costa Rica result really put the cat amongst the pigeons.

[MikeHunt]

sort of... around the 80 minute mark I had enough and made some breakfast and sat on my balcony in the sunshine eating and drinking coffee. listening to the birds chirping and watching my pool were more exciting. :yes:

have you ever tried swimming with a bricks tied to you?

it will seriously up your weight gains, give it a try.


Forget the result, that was encouraging. While it wasn't stonewall, we probably should have had a penalty too.

I will take that over any performance in the last two major championships.

We still get through.

are you talking about gerrard going down?

if so for me thats never a penalty.

i still think you'll go through as well.

[Gary J]

I actually enjoyed Shearer's punditry for once after the game he seemed to be a mission to wind Rio up about Rooney.

[Gary J]

Also Joe Hart is quiet lucky that Baines and Rooney seem to be the main ones taking criticism. He was awful his distribution at times was as bad as the corner from Rooney and he didn't look confident at all.

[BBF]

Baines is getting a bit of a slating but the poor bloke couldn't defend against 2 classy players with no cover from the left. Was much improved in the second half when he actually had some cover.

Don't play Wilshire again. He was shit. Tell Johnson to stop cutting in and shooting. Bench Rooney for the Uruguay game and stick Lallana in. The first goal we seemed to take an age to get out towards the ball. Shocking reactions really.

Really impressed with Welbeck and Sterling (and Barkley when he came on). All played with no fear and it showed. Thought Sturridge got into the game well too.

[McBain]

Baines just struggled with a lack of cover, not his fault.

Really surprised anyone is taking a slating though, it was the best I've seen us play in ages.

[BBF]

Agreed. It was encouraging and I enjoyed watching England for the first time in a while. It was different watching us in a World Cup game with no expectations.

[StevieV]

I like that most are remaining positive.

I really enjoyed that. Hurts to lose the opener but if the players can take positives we will be ok

[MikeHunt]

Agreed. It was encouraging and I enjoyed watching England for the first time in a while. It was different watching us in a World Cup game with no expectations.

Why in our football watching lifetime you've ever had expectations watching England previous to this tournament is absolutely baffling to me.

[BBF]

I'm a believer, Mike. Its a curse.

[MikeHunt]

Believe that you've never had a better than average team in our life time.

[RFF Champ]

Baines' effort to get back and stop that cross was sunday league stuff.

[Canuck]

you need to calm down a bit bro. I was just coming in here to say that I watched the Ivory Coast/Japan match and was entertained throughout. :yes: that was a fun game with some intense drama....

don't take everything so personally :)

Why were you coming in this thread to say that?

[MikeHunt]

Elite trolling (in Myles head)

[Romford Pele]

Shame about the result but performance was good I thought. Johnson should have covered for 2nd goal and Rooney was poor bar the assist.

If Suarez doesn't play we have a great chance on Thursday.

[Christopherson]

Good game all round I thought, Pirlo is just sublime but there was plenty of positives for England, you's definitely have a bit about you going forward. Just imagine if Rooney was playing at his capabilities, the formation going forward definitely works, Hodgson just has to sort Rooney out. You did look suspect at the back though but you might not come up against players as good as Pirlo that can pick you off, well, not at the group stages at least.

Side issue, I haven't watched much La Liga over the last few years, is Neymar really as good as the 'world' seems to think? Everytime I see him (which admittedly isn't a lot) he's been good but not Messi, Ronaldo class and by listening to other people he's supposed to be that good. I don't see it myself.

[Beefy]

I don't really get this 'no expectations' line which keeps getting trotted out. What expectations?

2002 is the only tournament that I remember there being any 'expectations' that England might compete for the trophy. England are typically a last eight side and the fact that the few teams who have ever got beyond that point in tournaments are held in such high regard, as are their managers, speaks volumes for the expectations of the English public and media.

[MichaelC]

Getting to the quarterfinals themselves is an expectation.

[Romford Pele]

2006 everyone and his dog were talking about it being 'our time' if I recall

[Beefy]

Getting to the quarterfinals themselves is an expectation.

Kicking off is an expectation. The Sun coming up tomorrow is an expectation.

Every England side should have the expectation of getting to the last eight and that applies to this team just as much as it did to the 1996 or 1990 teams.

[Beefy]

2006 everyone and his dog were talking about it being 'our time' if I recall

That's not my recollection at all. Hopes yeah. Last eight expectations, absolutely. I don't remember anyone seriously claiming England were the best team on the planet before 2006 or any other tournament.

At the end of the day these are knock out cup competitions and with a good draw, a lot of luck, decent penalties and the top players performing then most teams in the tournament should harbour hopes of winning the thing. That isn't the same as expectations that all we have to do is turn up.

[Romford Pele]

No but people were saying golden generation with Beckham, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, Cole etc

There was a lot of hype

[Bad Collin]

Most England fans expected us to win from about 1996 to 2006. It took not qualifying in 2008 and failure in 2010 for us to realise that we really aren't on that level.

[Gary J]

I remember the huge expectation before Euro 88 it was supposed to be between us and Holland so it was a huge shock when we lost all three group games. Bobby Robson got some disgraceful treatment afterwards which didn't end until after the 1990 world cup. Tony Adams got a lot of unfair stick too which took him a while to recover from just because he was shown up by Marco Van Basten.

[Beefy]

Most England fans expected us to win from about 1996 to 2006. It took not qualifying in 2008 and failure in 2010 for us to realise that we really aren't on that level.

Who the hell were these people? I've never met a single person in my life who "expected us to win" any of those tournaments.

Even 1996 being at home the team were pathetic in the build-up. Listen to the lyrics of Three Lions for goodness sake.

1988 is a good shout from Gary. That's the one time I can remember England being held up as being the best team in the tournament going in. It went the other way for 90 with no one giving the team any hope and Robson being held up by the media as a buffoon.

[Beefy]

3-0 to England.

[Simon]

So excited.

[McBain]

I'm nervous. But roll on.

[Romford Pele]

God, I'm nervous - this game will make or break my birthday.

How does a draw do for us?

[Beefy]

Draw leaves things in our own hands so long as Italy don't lose to Costa Rica.

[Simon]

Even if we lose narrowly, a 2 goal win against Costa Rica would put us through if Italy beat them and Uruguay :lol:

Definitely ready to rock out the Sturridge dance again tonight. I was shocked about how much less annoying it is when it's done to equalise against the Italians at a World Cup. Funny that.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Any result that leaves England needing a qualified Italy to beat Uruguay is as good as going out now, no point even thinking about that.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I think England should win fairly comfortably tonight as Uruguay looked shocking against Costa Rica and I doubt Suarez is going to be close to his physical best. That said, this World Cup has been fucking nuts and there's no way Australia should have given Netherlands a game last night. Depends on which team shows up wanting it more. If England move the ball around as quickly as they did vs Italy, they should win.

[Simon]

Oh yeah of course, I'm just saying that technically we still wouldn't be out. We might as well be if we've already been beaten by two teams that aren't that great, but there you go. A point tonight would more or less be fine in theory, but we need to win. I wouldn't trust us not to fuck it against Costa Rica.

[Simon]

A below-par Suarez at the end of the season was useless for Liverpool when he wasn't fully fit, so if he isn't 100% but plays that works out nicely (he will score now). Pereira being out helps us further, not sure that Lugano being out does though.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Yeah Lugano being out probably means Caceres in the middle with Godin, I would guess, which is a much quicker defence. Lugano is obviously in there for his experience as his lack of pace is really telling now.

I wouldn't have called Suarez useless, he wasn't worse then Sturridge towards the end of the season to be honest. It's a big unknown how he will be. Meniscus injuries are niggly things because they never really heal properly, so it just depends on the severity of that in the first place. There's been a number of players who have never really been the same after a meniscus problem (Fernando Torres most notably) but Suarez's might have been very minor.

[Simon]

Stop harshing my buzz just because you phoned Origi up looking for a date and he just got annoyed and demanded to know how you got his number.

[Simon]

Yeah that shut you up.

[JP]

2-0 England, Rooney with both.

[Simon]

Oh God I can see the aggressive "that showed you" celebration now.

[Beefy]

C'mon England. For once, just once, please give us something to celebrate at a major tournament. It's got to be ten years since you've given us anything. 12 years since anything really memorable (Argentina).

[RFF Champ]

Glenn Hoddle's XI was a laugh. Gerrard, Rooney and Lallana midfield three with Welbeck, Stirling and Sturridge up front.

[Prototype16]

Really hope we do something tonight, I'm more nervous than I thought I'd be in this tournament - despite the result we actually looked like we had a team worth watching against Italy and the response from the media and public has created quite a positive atmosphere for once, it would be a shame to crash out now

[Simon]

It felt like the Italy game was a bit of a freebie - I imagine the media would have loved to slaughter them, but the simple fact was that the fans were willing to accept a narrow defeat provided we tried to play good football. If we don't win tonight, regardless of the performance I don't think they'll be so kind.

[The Rosk]

Getting nervous for the first time in years. Ah god.

[JP]

The ITV website is down, incredible.

Thank God for Catch Up TV.

[Canuck]

Yeah Lugano being out probably means Caceres in the middle with Godin, I would guess, which is a much quicker defence. Lugano is obviously in there for his experience as his lack of pace is really telling now.

I wouldn't have called Suarez useless, he wasn't worse then Sturridge towards the end of the season to be honest. It's a big unknown how he will be. Meniscus injuries are niggly things because they never really heal properly, so it just depends on the severity of that in the first place. There's been a number of players who have never really been the same after a meniscus problem (Fernando Torres most notably) but Suarez's might have been very minor.

If it required surgery, it probably wasn't all that minor. Although, maybe he just went with it since it's a world cup year. Even so, 4 weeks post is short for any surgery.

[JP]

There is some Sunday League defending going on, little concerning.

[Judas Iscariot]

oof

[The Rosk]

Ah bollocks to this shit

[El Capitano Gatisto]

England haven't shown up here, not close to the same intensity they met Italy with. The ball is being moved too slowly. They should have taken the Liverpool initiative and started quickly, rather than waiting to be a goal down.

[Hlebsfall]

Been absolutely fucking shit. Good job moving Rooney into his favoured position, he's offered so much more there.

[The Rosk]

The ref has really bottled this game and these violent cunts are lapping it up.

[The Rosk]

There's nothing more I hate than refs not sending people off early in games because it's early. Villa vs United in the League Cup a few years ago when Vidic was last man and took out Gabby for a penalty made me sick. That one there was a disgraceful pussy decision. Dick. We can come back into this but I'm so bored of that shit in football.

[Donald]

I haven't been this sad since Amy Wimehouse died.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

If it required surgery, it probably wasn't all that minor. Although, maybe he just went with it since it's a world cup year. Even so, 4 weeks post is short for any surgery.

Of course it could still be minor, arthroscopy to take off a small bit of meniscus wouldn't take that long to recover from. Probably not ideal to be back so soon but he looks lively enough so far.

[wardy]

I've got England 2-1 with Suarez to score first so I'll be cheering you wankers on.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

There's nothing more I hate than refs not sending people off early in games because it's early. Villa vs United in the League Cup a few years ago when Vidic was last man and took out Gabby for a penalty made me sick. That one there was a disgraceful pussy decision. Dick. We can come back into this but I'm so bored of that shit in football.

Balances out for me, as I don't think the first was a yellow. The second was a definite yellow obviously, but it would have been unfortunate.

England need to get Rooney off, he's slowing the play down too much and looks fucked. Lallana has better movement, moves the ball quicker and smarter. Get Sterling in the middle and tell him to run at them.

[Andy]

Really don't think England have been very good, Rooney has been poor. I'd stick Sterling back in the middle and bring Ox on.

[Chris Scott]

Great run, Pass and header.

England's play is slow at times and not getting in Urgruay faces that much.

[The Rosk]

If Ox is fit and healthy, and we need to bring someone on, then of course... BRING JIMMY ON.

[The Rosk]

Balances out for me, as I don't think the first was a yellow. The second was a definite yellow obviously, but it would have been unfortunate.

England need to get Rooney off, he's slowing the play down too much and looks fucked. Lallana has better movement, moves the ball quicker and smarter. Get Sterling in the middle and tell him to run at them.

Why shouldn't a deliberate handball stopping a chance be a yellow then?

Sterling looks shite compared to when he was in the middle. Rooney is such a gasbag cunt. Give him ten minutes and if he's still shit get him off so we can win this cunt

[The Rosk]

Come onnnnnnnnnnnn boys. You've bloody got this.

[Hlebsfall]

What the fuck did Roy say to them at half time? Yeah, like the first half but 100 times worse lads.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

England could get drilled if they don't use their heads here. They're desperate.

[JP]

Oh come on you fucker.

[The Rosk]

What the fuck did Roy say to them at half time? Yeah, like the first half but 100 times worse lads.

Agdahgdaaddag

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Tackled Danny Sturridge to get that chance and then stuck it straight at the keeper.

[Judas Iscariot]

Rooney has some sort of hex on him, right?

[JP]

No, Townsend you dumb fuck, he does not hit it too well. It is an easy fucking chance.

[Andy]

Good idea to take the best player off :wtf:

[JP]

Has Daniel Sturridge forgotten how to pass the ball?

[son_of_foley]

This is more like the England were all used to

[MMH]

Why did Rooney give that ball to Johnson in the air as opposed to along the floor then?

Weird thing to do.

[son_of_foley]

Loved itv saying dirty play wasn't in English DNA and then we've had a ludicrous number of dives

[son_of_foley]

Could Baines be fucking slower at moving the ball

[The Rosk]

This last twenty minutes will be consisting of six players not sure who to pass to and hearts breaking every second. Shite

[JP]

This last twenty minutes will be consisting of six players not sure who to pass to and hearts breaking every second. Shite

POST AGAIN NOW!

[The Rosk]

YESSSSSSSS NOW WAKE UP WAYNE YEEEDGHHJ

[son_of_foley]

Glad for Glen Johnson. Know he was lucky as Fuck there but I think he gets a lot of unnecessary shite

[The Rosk]

This last fifteen minutes will be heartbreaking and there is ZERO CHANCE WE WILL NOT LOSE

[Donald]

http://sd.keepcalm-o-matic.co.uk/i/keep-calm-england-will-beat-uruguay.png

[Pablo Diablo]

So we'll blame Rooney for that too right?

[The Rosk]

Someone go kick that cunt's head off.

[MMH]

So we'll blame Rooney for that too right?

Not allowed to blame captain fantastic.

Great finish by the way.

[Pablo Diablo]

Suarez is such a skillful cunt. I hate him so much.

[MMH]

Suarez is such a skillful cunt. I hate him so much.

Aye brilliantly horrible. Or horribly brilliant, that sounds better I suppose.

[The Rosk]

Well there we go again lads. Happy days.

[Ringo]

:no:

Uruguay deserved it.

[Chris Scott]

Quality from Suarez.

[JP]

Forza Italia!

[Pablo Diablo]

So Italy have to win both games and England needs to beat Costa Rica by more than 2 right in order for England to go through.

[Hlebsfall]

Yeah we're out. Same old shit, that performance was terrible.

[The Rosk]

Gerrard should retire now. Couldn't figure out how to play in his position, Henderson was awful and pointless, Welbeck can't play football, Sturridge was wasteful, Rooney scoring a tap-in doesn't mean he wasn't dogshit, and the subs didn't know where they were playing. Load of ineffectual scared bollocks. Fuck off you predictable predictable bollocks wankers. Put a tenner on Uruguay before the game so at least got some money to buy some new darts for my Suarez dartboard. I would happily pay to see him crippled in a game at some point and make him cry for real. Just despise the cunt.

[Ringo]

Actually more upset about this than I thought I'd be. Which isn't THAT much but still. Last couple of tournaments I really didn't give a fuck. Pretty disappointed in the performance and irritated that everyone was so confident Uruguay weren't up to much anymore.

I guess I'll pretend to be German now.

[Prototype16]

Well that was disappointing - crap defending, lucky to get back into it, then more crap defending

[The Rosk]

In two games, have we got a head on any corner or free kick into the opposition box? What the fuck happened there?

[Hlebsfall]

Well there was that Rooney one from a yard out, but I was thinking the same thing. Had so many of them as well, the delivery on the whole was so poor.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

That was brilliant. I loved that a lot. The old English nonsense was starting to creep back in "Uruguay are nothing special bar Suarez and Cavani" "we should deal with Uruguay comfortably" etc. so this game was pretty enjoyable. It was always going to be Suarez.

Would any England supporter really want to creep in to the second round now? What would be the point?

[Romford Pele]

Got what we deserved. Defence was shite and Suarez showed what we are missing

Rooney simply isn't in the same class and we shat it in posession.

Oh well, least arsenal won the cup

[Beefy]

Would any England supporter really want to creep in to the second round now? What would be the point?

Of course.

[Donald]

I agree.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Fair enough. It's not happening anyway. Costa Rica have a chance to go through if they beat England, I hope they go for it.

[MikeHunt]

BHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHGSHEURRIQHAHJAAJAJAJ AJAJAJAJAJHA!!

Loved it!

[Simon]

Very poor. Guess the Italy game was an anomaly, this was our usual one-paced rubbish. Uruguay fully deserved it.

[Simon]

Clearing up party poppers excreted by a mate onto my living room floor in the aftermath of the equaliser at full time was a low point.

[Donald]

Fair enough. It's not happening anyway. Costa Rica have a chance to go through if they beat England, I hope they go for it.

I don't expect them to make it. I would love it if Costa Rica beat Italy rather than England though!

[Simon]

The annoying thing is in all probability Italy will beat Costa Rica tonight, and everyone will start getting their hopes up for Tuesday. By my reckoning we need Italy to win tonight and against Uruguay, and then we need to beat Costa Rica by a maximum of two goals depending on how many they were beaten by Italy. Sad thing is the least likely of all those things is us beating Costa Rica by two.

[Romford Pele]

So after the dust has settled, some england thoughts:-

1) I think Leighton Baines is a good club player but not international class. He has been consistently exposed (yes I know the cover wasnt great) but that decision to leave Ashley Cole at home now looks very foolish. As expected, Luke Shaw has not had a kick.

2) The goalkeeper and defence is not world class. Much as I hate him, I would have been much morre optimistic had we had Terry/Cahill/Cole (Johnson has always been a liability at defending and Walker is the same)

3) Rooney is a good, but not great player - similar to the hype around Beckham where he was very good, but not one of the best at that time (compared to Rivaldo, Zidane etc). Suarez, Ronaldo, Zlatan & Messi are all world class. Rooney is not.

4) One positive is that we do have some very good attacking players. The likes of Sterling, Ox, Walcott, Barkley, Sturridge and Wilshire should provide the bulk of our attack going forward.

5) Gerrards time is up. Poor again last night.

6) We do however, need a CDM and I can't see where that player is

7) Our style of play was at least better to watch this world cup (if not effective)

8) Despite this, Hodgson should go, you cannot expect to keep your job if you dont get out of the group stage.

9) As expected Lampard was not used - waste of a space there for a player who is past it

10) Overall, still more positive than four years ago, despite us progressing further in that tournament - probably because we had more wasters like Defoe, Upson and Barry then.

[Judas Iscariot]

Yes, that's the math of it all.

[RFF Champ]

Why should Hodgson go? He's done everything right, the players are all positive about him and everything he's done in this tournament most fans have agreed with. We lost a heavyweight encounter against Italy and have been done by a World Class player last night in a niggly game where neither team played well.

International tournaments are a crapshoot with really fine margins that we've seen go against us. Absolutely everything seemed right going into the tournament.

[Romford Pele]

Also, Lambert should have been left out for Carroll.

[JP]

I'm desperately grabbing on to anything I can here, but us getting through isn't so far into fiction territory that we should stop believing completely.

:happysad:

[Romford Pele]

Why should Hodgson go? He's done everything right, the players are all positive about him and everything he's done in this tournament most fans have agreed with. We lost a heavyweight encounter against Italy and have been done by a World Class player last night in a niggly game where neither team played well.

International tournaments are a crapshoot with really fine margins that we've seen go against us. Absolutely everything seemed right going into the tournament.

I agree with that, but the minimum that should be expected is to get out of the group.

Yes, we had a hard group but look at some of the players we have ffs. Perhaps Brendan Rodgers could make us into a better unit.

[RFF Champ]

Also, Lambert should have been left out for Carroll.

Why are you expecting all 23 players to be used over 2 games? You've moaned about Lampard being there when never close to a game and the targetman not being played. If we'd played with a targetman you'd have moaned about lumping it up too much. Lambert deserved to be there over Carroll on most level headed comparisons, he's scored a few goals and looks fit for a start.

[Torn]

I'm desperately grabbing on to anything I can here, but us getting through isn't so far into fiction territory that we should stop believing completely.

:happysad:

AGREED.

As Simon said, an Italy win today is going to get our hopes up again, but it's not a very far fetched combination of results that means we go through. Will be interesting to see how both teams look this afternoon.

[Torn]

Moaning about squad selection on players like Lampard and Lambert is one of the more stupid things I've read since yesterday evening.

[JP]

I'm looking at their second goal again and it's so odd from Cahill. A few minutes previous he was throwing himself everywhere to try and stop shots coming in, but then when Suarez breaks free he slows down when getting close to the player and instead of diving in an attempted block, stands off, when he was so close if he'd have gone all in there's a good chance he'd have got there.

[RFF Champ]

I agree with that, but the minimum that should be expected is to get out of the group.

Yes, we had a hard group but look at some of the players we have ffs. Perhaps Brendan Rodgers could make us into a better unit.

If anything last night proved how important Suarez is to Liverpool because we lacked the individual skill to really run at Uruguay with pace. They disrupted the play well because we had most of the ball but were too slow on it. We lacked that bit of individual excellence like Suarez showed to burst through the defence

Brendan Rodgers has much bigger fish to fry than to worry about the England job.

[JP]

Why should Hodgson go? He's done everything right, the players are all positive about him and everything he's done in this tournament most fans have agreed with. We lost a heavyweight encounter against Italy and have been done by a World Class player last night in a niggly game where neither team played well.

International tournaments are a crapshoot with really fine margins that we've seen go against us. Absolutely everything seemed right going into the tournament.

:yes:

[RFF Champ]

Moaning about squad selection on players like Lampard and Lambert is one of the more stupid things I've read since yesterday evening.

I'm just waiting for 'why didn't John Ruddy go?' to complete the set.

[Romford Pele]

Why are you expecting all 23 players to be used over 2 games? You've moaned about Lampard being there when never close to a game and the targetman not being played. If we'd played with a targetman you'd have moaned about lumping it up too much. Lambert deserved to be there over Carroll on most level headed comparisons, he's scored a few goals and looks fit for a start.

Lampard is 36. If you take a player with that experience to the world cup he should be one of the first subs you bring on. Obviously he is not for the future, so if you arent going to play him, why take him?

Carroll is much better in the air than Lambert. I was never convinced Lambert could step up and last night he looked like he won a fan competition to get a run out. Massively out of his depth.

[MikeHunt]

Hahahaha! Fucking hell nature boy with an outstanding series of posts there. Carrol for lambert, sack woy, let's get Brendan Rodgers. Hahajahahah! Fucking idiotic.

Yous were absolutely dire last night, absolutely everyone of your players let roy down.

Can we all agree that England are shite. Yup thought so.

[Romford Pele]

Moaning about squad selection on players like Lampard and Lambert is one of the more stupid things I've read since yesterday evening.

If you take a player Lampards age, you should be playing him. Lambert isnt good enough - we needed better from a player to try and change the game.

[JP]

I don't think we were shit last night, just horribly average, which was disappointing after what we saw against Italy.

No expectations against Italy and so played without fear, and played well. Expectations grow based on that and Costa Rica winning, be told 'play again without fear' which in turn seems to scare the shit out of them.

We are a strange breed in this country.

[Romford Pele]

Hahahaha! Fucking hell nature boy with an outstanding series of posts there. Carrol for lambert, sack woy, let's get Brendan Rodgers. Hahajahahah! Fucking idiotic.

Yous were absolutely dire last night, absolutely everyone of your players let roy down.

Can we all agree that England are shite. Yup thought so.

The players let the manager down? Yes but the manager picks the players. He takes ultimate responsibility.

Yeah we were shite, but with some of the players we have we should be reaching knock out stages, minimum.

[RFF Champ]

If you take a player Lampards age, you should be playing him.

haha, why?? If you can't see why a 36 year old decent professional with experience of winning is in the 23 man squad then I can't help you.

[RFF Champ]

The players let the manager down? Yes but the manager picks the players. He takes ultimate responsibility.

Yeah we were shite, but with some of the players we have we should be reaching knock out stages, minimum.

So it'd be okay if we'd cruised through France's group and then lost to good teams like Italy or Uruguay? Take the games in isolation, stop trotting out nonsense lines about where we 'should' be getting and relying on the old English sense of entitlement.

[Simon]

Baines has been exactly as I expected him to be - not downright terrible, but nowhere near the Everton Baines and never looking comfortable. Cole had to go.

The worrying thing about yesterday is that it was essentially a new English side compared to the past decade save for Rooney and Gerrard, but it was the same old dour, slow, blunt shit. Just as we shouldn't have got ahead of ourselves after one good performance against Italy we shouldn't dismiss a whole new breed on the basis of one crap performance against Uruguay, but that performance yesterday wouldn't have looked out of place at any tournament since 2006.

[JP]

Yeah we were shite, but with some of the players we have we should be reaching knock out stages, minimum.

Jesus fucking Christ mate, this isn't an exercise in raking the squads of every team in the World Cup and deciding who goes through, we got handed a nightmare of a group.

If we were in any other group but one - the obvious, despite Spain falling all over themselves - then while not taken for granted I would have hoped we would have qualified for the next round. With the one we got, it was always going to be tough.

We haven't got players anywhere approaching the level of Suarez and Pirlo. They dictate and/or change games.

Also, we're not out yet. FORZA ITALIA!

[Romford Pele]

haha, why?? If you can't see why a 36 year old decent professional with experience of winning is in the 23 man squad then I can't help you.

What, so he can help people play golf? I understand bringing younger players to give them experience of a world cup but I'm sorry he has wasted a space there.

[JP]

Baines has been exactly as I expected him to be - not downright terrible, but nowhere near the Everton Baines and never looking comfortable. Cole had to go.

Oh God, yes.

Only thing about Hodgson which has riled me up. Italy's cross for the second has a much less chance of happening if Cole is at left back. Also, I don't think we'd have lost anything that Baines admittedly did bring attacking wise last night with Cole there instead.

Only major mis-step which I can see though.

[Romford Pele]

So it'd be okay if we'd cruised through France's group and then lost to good teams like Italy or Uruguay? Take the games in isolation, stop trotting out nonsense lines about where we 'should' be getting and relying on the old English sense of entitlement.

I understand it is a tough group, but if a manager who has 7/8 months to prepare for those teams cannot find a way out of the group, then we are entitled to question whether he is the right man for the job.

I'm not saying we are entitled to anything, but we should have a minimum target and if that target is not reached then the manager is ultimately responsible.

[RFF Champ]

I understand it is a tough group, but if a manager who has 7/8 months to prepare for those teams cannot find a way out of the group, then we are entitled to question whether he is the right man for the job.

I'm not saying we are entitled to anything, but we should have a minimum target and if that target is not reached then the manager is ultimately responsible.

Why do we need a target? This is tournament football, targets are irrelevant, it's not the type of environment where talent levels out in the end because they're one-off matches.

The only real suggestion you've made of the manager needing to do better is relating to 2 substitutes. Saying stuff like 'should have got out of the group' is entitlement. Analyse these two games and why we've lost them rather than where you feel we stand in the hierarchy. Just face it, the manager did everything right, the best XI was on the pitch in the best system and we didn't match up.

[Romford Pele]

Everyone has targets.

In your job, do you not have objectives or targets?

That is how you measure success or failure otherwise it would just be meaningless statements 'I think I have done well', 'I think you have done badly'

[RFF Champ]

I think our biggest positive has been Sturridge. Tidy finish against Italy and his play down the wing was the platform for the goal last night. At times we were too slow and it was frustrating but we kept the ball better, had more shots, Rooney had 2 great chances as well as his goal and Sturridge made a chance for himself in the area. We created enough to win the game even if we allowed the Uruguay defence to stifle our attacking play at times.

[RFF Champ]

Everyone has targets.

In your job, do you not have objectives or targets?

That is how you measure success or failure otherwise it would just be meaningless statements 'I think I have done well', 'I think you have done badly'

Of course there are objectives for how far we get but take each game as it comes, look at the games we've played rather than using arbitrary expectations based on fuck all. Stuff like you saying we 'should get to the knockout stages' regardless of what group we're in is tripe.

Every team should have the ambition to beat their opponent in a one off match regardless of the round.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I don't see why the shape of the team was changed last night to spare Rooney's feelings. Apart from his goal, he missed two simple chances and his all-round play was generally appalling. This is a footballer who has been left behind because of his own disregard for his physical condition. Sterling should have started exactly where he played vs. Italy instead of being shifted to the perhipheries. I also think Lallana should have been used more as a player who can move the ball quickly and keep possession, as well as work hard in pressing high up. At this point, Rooney should effectively be seen as a back up for Sturridge. All this talk of him being a number 10: he has never, ever been particularly good in that position. His best work came when he still had the legs as a wide player or when he plays right up front. He doesn't have the passing ability, the movement, the technique or the general intelligence to play a deeper role, worse he doesn't have the legs now either. That was Hodgson's mistake. A lot of pundits and journos may even flog him for it, but they all called for Rooney to be moved to the middle. The big decision at this World Cup was to drop Rooney, despite his goals in qualifying (which came before Sturridge was really brought into the side), and Hodgson didn't take it. His squad selection was bold and his team shape was interesting, but ultimately he didn't take the important decision.

If England had started quickly last night, they probably would have won the game, but they simply cannot play quickly with the play aiming to go through Wayne Rooney, it as simple as that. He does not belong anywhere near a midfield.

[Torn]

Lallana not being used more has been my main disappointment with Hodgson this World Cup.

[Gary J]

I don't get all this talk of Ashley Cole should have gone. All we heard after he got back in the Chelsea team at the end of last season was that he still had it. Apart from the fact he was lucky to escape a red card against Liverpool and was exposed by Atletico Madrid. Baines was the right choice admittedly he didn't have the attacking influence that Cole offered at his peak but Baines is a better left back then Cole these days.

Also Roy Hodgson should definitely not go he is still the best man for the England job. I'm more positive after this world cup then I was after the last one or even after the euros. They were glimpses we could be a decent team soon.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Lallana not being used more has been my main disappointment with Hodgson this World Cup.

I was surprised at him being dropped, it's tempting to think it was based on seniority rather than what suited the team. In using Sterling centrally, there was obviously an idea there to utilise the Liverpool general shape, something I think Lallana could fit into because of his work rate and ability on the ball. Neither Welbeck or Rooney offer the technique or the positivity on the ball to suit that. Welbeck's reluctance to commit defenders or pass the ball forward really negates his good work off the ball. He's the new Park Ji Sung, a player much more effective without the ball than with it, whose movement gets him chances but whose ability costs them. Rooney's passing is just awful too, he continually looks for a self-indulgent, floated ball out to the flanks that completely slows the play.

The decision has to come soon on this so it doesn't become a problem for England integrating promising young players. Sterling, Oxlade-Chamberlain and Barkley, along with Lallana, Welbeck and Walcott to a certain extent, offer a very fast attacking midfield line-up, in terms of pace and/or ball movement, with versatility and penetration. I do think the pace of the play vs. Italy showed England the way forward and the qualification for the Euros is a chance to try to make that an England style going forward.

[Beefy]

Lampard is 36. If you take a player with that experience to the world cup he should be one of the first subs you bring on. Obviously he is not for the future, so if you arent going to play him, why take him?


Lampard was taken to enable Hodgson to rest Gerrard when we were winning matches.

The issue there of course is fairly obvious.

[Beefy]

Baines is a better left back then Cole these days.


No he isn't. Never has been and never will be.

[Gary J]

The past 3 or 4 seasons he's been better then him apart from the odd day when Cole has rolled back the years.

[Chris Scott]

I think our biggest positive has been Sturridge. Tidy finish against Italy and his play down the wing was the platform for the goal last night. At times we were too slow and it was frustrating but we kept the ball better, had more shots, Rooney had 2 great chances as well as his goal and Sturridge made a chance for himself in the area. We created enough to win the game even if we allowed the Uruguay defence to stifle our attacking play at times.

Agree. Thought he played well second half, hopefully he can get some more goals in the last game.

[Bad Collin]

I'm with Alex and JP on this, we played ok in a terrible group but we are going to lose the majority of games against the top ten teams in the world because we have no world class players.

It's not necessarily Rooney's fault that he hasn't fulfilled his potential and sadly we have no one better. I think that if we had Suarez or Ballotelli instead of Rooney then we would have won those games. Cappy makes a good point, we need to try something different. Hopefully Wayne is on the bench against Costa Rica.

Aside: I don't know why any of you engage with Nature Boy. I have enjoyed this forum much more since I put him on ignore.

[son_of_foley]

Rooney's passing is just awful too, he continually looks for a self-indulgent, floated ball out to the flanks that completely slows the play.


How many times did he do this? I mean jesus. It's like he watched tapes of Gerrard from the past 8 years and took it away as a positive

[Romford Pele]

The past 3 or 4 seasons he's been better then him apart from the odd day when Cole has rolled back the years.

In the Premier League, maybe. Not for England.

[Simon]

IMO the problem with Rooney is that he was expected to hit a level that, in retrospect, was always unfeasible. He came through as an insanely good 16 year old, but in a different way to, say, Ronaldo...when he was 16, Rooney was more or less a complete footballer (I think MMH has said that even before this he was essentially ready to play PL football, from about 14?) - he had all the usual qualities you'd expect from a top class young talent (quick, technical, hard worker), but also had both natural strength and an awareness of how to use his strength to his advantage, and a far better brain than most players of his age.

The assumption with young players is that they will improve, but looking back there weren't any obvious ways Rooney COULD improve massively the way inconsistent or flightly youngsters like Ronaldo, Bale etc could. Because he was already a very good player at the highest level as a 16 year old, the expectation was that he would go on to become a world class player, but in retrospect I don't think it was likely. Compare that to Ronaldo, who from a young age had talents even a kid as good as Rooney never had, but also had gaping holes in his game...there were clear ways in which he could and would improve - bulking up, making the right decisions, working on his finishing etc - Rooney didn't have those incredible strengths OR those incredible weaknesses, so in retrospect it seems clear that he was always likely to stay on more or less the same level, give or take an apparent fondness for boozing that has hampered his fitness in the last couple of years.

That doesn't justify him getting fat and lazy (would be interesting to see his running stats, because there is still an assumption that he's a prodigious worker but just from watching him I don't think he has either the fitness or willingness to work as hard as he used to), but I think it does somewhat absolve him of criticisms that he never made the most of his ability - he reached more or less the limit of how good he could be as a teenager, and beyond doing it even more consistently which he has more or less managed, there wasn't anywhere for him to go really.

[Gary J]

In the Premier League, maybe. Not for England.

Well of course in the premier league I mean most of his England games have been against the likes of San Marino , Moldova , Peru , Honduras games where we didn't need Cole so it wasn't a miss and even if he had been absolutely amazing it would have been it's only San Marino. But going by the way Cole was exposed in his last two games against decent opposition in Liverpool and Atletico Madrid is there any guarantee he'd have fared any better then Baines did against Italy and Uruguay.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I don't think that's about Rooney not being able to improve, he was still raw as a talent when he came in to the Premier League, he just happened to be physically well developed. He didn't score many goals in his time at Everton. What signalled his potential was the coolness of finishing at Euro 2004, the fearlessness and the direct running, then the ridiculous hat-trick he got on his debut for Manchester United in the Champions League. Indeed, for a few years at United with Ronaldo he played extremely well in a very selfless way for his team, contributing goals and assists but also offering the tireless running and directness for which he was known for as a youngster. He was willing to run the ball, to give it simple and to go into the channels. Movement of the ball and pace with his running. He would beat defenders up. When Ronaldo left, Rooney became more of an orthodox forward player and had a superb season for United in terms of goals and he really did look like pushing on to become the pure, consistent match-winner he threatened to be. Since that season, possibly coinciding with his falling out with Ferguson and the initial transfer request, he has not been the same player. Physically he hasn't looked after himself, his game has become less direct. He still has the quality to get goals and assists in the Premier League, but his play is less team-orientated more about his position in it.

There's always been a lot of talk about the influence of Paul Stretford over Rooney, Stretford supposedly being a really weird guy but having Rooney's ear about career decisions over Alex Ferguson. Possibly this has been Rooney's downfall. Prior to every other international tournament Rooney has been around for, I have trumpeted him as England's key man, that his form could take them into the latter rounds. It has never happened since 2004 and it never will. It's a massive pity when you look back at the decisive, direct player he was back then to the bloated, indulgent "superstar" he has become. The difference between Rooney and Ronaldo isn't that Ronaldo had more to work on, it's that Ronaldo has a relentless desire to work on it, to be better, whereas Rooney let his lifestyle affect his football career. It's telling that Alex Ferguson clearly has more respect for Ronaldo than Rooney, even though Ronaldo pushed for a move away. One did it because he was the consummate professional, the other did it because he wanted more money. Rooney has not only not reached his potential, he has actually regressed.

[Romford Pele]

I think Rooney started to believe his own hype a bit, probably from 2010 onwards.

Once Ronaldo left and he had a great 2009/10 I think he didn't work as hard as he used to and got ideas above his station. What other player would ask Alex Ferguson why they hadn't signed a certain player?

He doesn't have the intelligence or subtlety of a number 10 for England and is probably better suited at this point to being a number 9. Sadly, RVP is better in that role at united and Sturridge is a more complete number 9 for England.

Like others have said, when he came through he 'looked' like he had amazing potential but maybe he peaked in his early 20s. I cannot see him playing like 40 or even 35 at the top level as the likes of Giggs has.

[MMH]

I agree with that, but the minimum that should be expected is to get out of the group.

Yes, we had a hard group but look at some of the players we have ffs. Perhaps Brendan Rodgers could make us into a better unit.

This is the problem though isnt it? What players do England have exactly? You even said yourself that most of them are not top quality. People keep assuming that these English players are great but they aint. They are very average with limited scope for improvement.

[MMH]

I agree with that, but the minimum that should be expected is to get out of the group.

Yes, we had a hard group but look at some of the players we have ffs. Perhaps Brendan Rodgers could make us into a better unit.

This is the problem though isnt it? What players do England have exactly? You even said yourself that most of them are not top quality. People keep assuming that these English players are great but they aint. They are very average with limited scope for improvement.

Makes me laugh with the Cole stuff too (not you, everybody saying it) he had to go etc. Why did he have to go? Did I miss all those international competitions that England won with him in the side?

Get rid of the old guard, all of them and stop being so shit scared of them.

Rodgers would make them into a better unit, so too would Martinez and a few other managers of a similar ilk. None of them would take the England job at this stage though and would be insane to even entertain the thought. They would be on a hiding to nothing.

[MMH]

No he isn't. Never has been and never will be.

Yes he is....

One of the best in Europe. You could put Maldini in his prime in the England team against Italy (erm...if you get what I mean) and would have got the same result. A player cant play a whole flank on his own.

People clinging in to players like Cole, Gerrard, even Rooney to an extent is whats wrong with Englands football team.

They are shit and its your fault.

[The Rosk]

Yeah I agree with MMH. Cole has been shite and it's easy to just relax on blame culture but ultimately we aren't good enough and we don't have the right mindset for major tournaments. Cole for Baines would have made fuck all difference. Baines became one of our best attacking players for half that game yesterday from left back ffs. He had Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney in front of him in both of these games, one of whom doesn't understand football and one who doesn't give a shit about positional sense at all.

[MMH]

Yeah I agree with MMH. Cole has been shite and it's easy to just relax on blame culture but ultimately we aren't good enough and we don't have the right mindset for major tournaments. Cole for Baines would have made fuck all difference. Baines became one of our best attacking players for half that game yesterday from left back ffs. He had Danny Welbeck and Wayne Rooney in front of him in both of these games, one of whom doesn't understand football and one who doesn't give a shit about positional sense at all.

:yes: Baines is a classy player. Great engine on him, good vision, excellent crosser and dead ball player. Very much in the Phillip Lahm mould yet some England fans go on about some cunt who was quality 10 years ago.

Those people dont deserve a player like Baines in their side. Footballing dinosaurs is what they are. Yeah lets get Terry fucking Butcher back in lads, hes got passion!

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Costa Rica don't look to be in the mood to roll over for anyone while. They're in with a big shout of the second round.

[MMH]

Dont want to tempt fate but I really like Navas in goal for them. Solid goalie.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

It's interesting hearing Robbie Savage repeat this bollocks too about Pirlo "not running around very much" that I heard a few other pundits mention in the build-up before the England game last weekend. He talks about it in his book about he is regularly up there as covering the most distance in games. Only one England player covered more distance than him (Rooney) and Gerrard, plus the full-backs, covered roughly the same. Henderson didn't cover more distance than Pirlo and he's known for running about a lot. Only De Rossi and the full-backs covered more ground than him in the Italy side. He controls the game by moving around the pitch.

[Kneeneighbor]

Italy has had their chances here.

[The Rosk]

Henderson did the square root of fuck all this tournament. James FUCKING Milner.

[Kneeneighbor]

How was that not a PK.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The Italians switched off towards the end of the half, Costa Rica are good value for the lead. That was one of the biggest penalties ever, no idea how the ref didn't give it.

[Kneeneighbor]

Italy has had their chances here.

It seemed like as soon as I posted this the tides turned and Coasta Rica completely out played them including the goal and the possible PK.

[Romford Pele]

Costa Rica are good value for their lead, wish the commentator would stop talking about England

Who gives a shit about Robbie Savages trousers?!

[Romford Pele]

:yes: Baines is a classy player. Great engine on him, good vision, excellent crosser and dead ball player. Very much in the Phillip Lahm mould yet some England fans go on about some cunt who was quality 10 years ago.

Those people dont deserve a player like Baines in their side. Footballing dinosaurs is what they are. Yeah lets get Terry fucking Butcher back in lads, hes got passion!

Philip Laum mould?!

The bloke has never played CL football and never played well for England really has he.

No one ever said Cole would have won the game but he is still a better defender than Baines

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Costa Rica are good value for their lead, wish the commentator would stop talking about England

Who gives a shit about Robbie Savages trousers?!

Your mum.

[Gary J]

Philip Laum mould?!

The bloke has never played CL football and never played well for England really has he.

No one ever said Cole would have won the game but he is still a better defender than Baines

How many games did Cole play exceptionally well for England other then the two games against Portugal? You might slate Baines for his performance against Italy but have people forgotten how shit Antonio Valencia made Cole look in 2006. Cole was probably our most consistent player for a while but he like many other didn't transfer his club form to the international stage.

As for not playing Champions league football how is that a measure of a players quality Stevan Jovetic has never played Champions League football going by your logic that makes Nicolas Bendtner a better player then him which is quiet clearly not the case.

[MMH]

Philip Laum mould?!

The bloke has never played CL football and never played well for England really has he.

No one ever said Cole would have won the game but he is still a better defender than Baines

4 years ago maybe. Not anymore he isnt. It doesnt matter anyway. You could have the best left back ever playing there and if he isnt getting any help it wont make a blind bit of difference as he will be over run. Surely you can see that?

And yes Baines has played well for England in the past. Who gives a toss about Champions league? Rooney and Gerrard have played loads in the CL, didnt seem to make much difference did it? Fucking hell Phil Jones has played loads of CL games.

In terms of his playing style yes he is similar to Lahm. He is the best English Left back in the league, and quite possibly the best left back in England full stop. Like any player though you have to play to his strengths otherwise whats the point?

[Xtreme Rebel]

This will send England out correct? Because either Italy or Urugauy will pick up at least a point from their match?

[Ringo]

Fantastic stuff. Look at them!

I'm a Costa Rica fan now.

[Kneeneighbor]

Yes Englad is out.

Does this put Costa Rica through?

[El Capitano Gatisto]

See ya England. Superb work from Costa Rica.

[DaSaintFan]

This will send England out correct? Because either Italy or Urugauy will pick up at least a point from their match?

yep... england's out. Got to give the Costa Rican coach credit for his strategy. He set this one up brilliantly to nullify EVERYTHiNG the italians could do.

[Ringo]

Are you guys watching without commentary?

[Romford Pele]

The champions league point is that Cole has performed at that level for many years, whilst Baines has not.

Sorry but Baines is similar to someone like Andy Cole. Great player at club level but couldn't make the step up at international level. No Shame in that.

Oh and Cole played brilliantly in 2002, 2004 and 2006 and was one of our better players at 2010. Not sure what he has left to prove

[Pablo Diablo]

Probably the American coverage wasn't focusing on England's elimination and more Costa Rica going through.

[Romford Pele]

And England are out. Good riddance, I can actually enjoy the World Cup now

[Prototype16]

Amazing effort from Costa Rica - must go down as one of the greatest upsets ever, not just today's game but the group as a whole - for them to get through with a game to spare is incredible

[El Capitano Gatisto]

Costa Rica are likely to get Ivory Coast in the second round so there'll be at least one pretty interesting team in the quarters. This is a fantastic World Cup, it's good to see teams who work hard and go for it getting their rewards. As long as the refs don't help Brazil along too much we could see a new/weird winner this time round, especially since Germany, France and Argentina are on the other side of the draw to Columbia, Chile etc.

[DaSaintFan]

Probably the American coverage wasn't focusing on England's elimination and more Costa Rica going through.


Actually the ESPN coverage was quite a bit of both.. Early on it focused on what England needed as well as calling the officials into question (Particularly on the non-penalty kick and other questionable non-calls on tackles) As Costa Rica got further into the game, it turned into a "This upset could REALLY be happening1'

[Romford Pele]

Also, look how the Costa Ricans dealt with Pirlo. Why could we not have done that? Down to the manager.

[Fanny Batter]

I hope Suarez comes good again against the Italians and sets up Uruguay vs. Colombia in the second round, that would be an intense game. Costa Rica vs. Ivory Coast sounds good too. England are neither here nor there, we need a defence and an otherworldly match winner in that Suarez/Ronaldo/Messi mold. Can we convince Gary Bale he's English?

[greebull]

This sets up a big game Tuesday at 4PM ET between Uruguay and Italy! Italy will advance with a win/tie, and Uruguay advances with a win. (Costa Rica has already clinched.)

[MMH]

The champions league point is that Cole has performed at that level for many years, whilst Baines has not.

Sorry but Baines is similar to someone like Andy Cole. Great player at club level but couldn't make the step up at international level. No Shame in that.

Oh and Cole played brilliantly in 2002, 2004 and 2006 and was one of our better players at 2010. Not sure what he has left to prove

He wont make the "step up" if they dont play to his strengths. But regardless he is still England's best left back right now.

I get what you are saying about Cole but look at the dates. Between 4 and 12 years ago! Times change. Baines is a proper modern footballer. The English dinosaurs will never know how to use/appreciate him. Sterling will probably go the same way.