Charlie Brooker's How Videogames Changed The World

[JP]

Gaming television for the mainstream and at its best.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWbr5z1Uu_U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWbr5z1Uu_U

[Dreyski]

Beat me to it, but I was just going to post the list...

[The_Mike]

YouTube's telling me I have to sign in to confirm my age because it's violent. FFS, the first time I've ever come across this on YouTube, and of course it has to be about video games.

Anyway, I like Brooker so thanks for posting it.

[JP]

Embedding bloody disabled. :grumpy:

[JP]

Beat me to it, but I was just going to post the list...

Night Trap seemed to be on there simply to avoid using Mortal Kombat for some strange reason, but as a comprehensive list for importance you could do worse.

I'd have liked to see the original Sonic in there though and I could argue the inclusion of Res Evil and MGS too.

[The_Mike]

Not available in my country either, bah.

[JP]

Not available in my country either, bah.

Eh, thought you were one of our scottish contingent?

[MikeHunt]

Use hola unblocker and change to uk and 4od will work.

[MikeHunt]

Also I enjoyed the programme but no1 was a bit silly.

[The_Mike]

Eh, thought you were one of our scottish contingent?

I emigrated.


Use hola unblocker and change to uk and 4od will work.

Thanks, will give that a shot.

[JP]

Also I enjoyed the programme but no1 was a bit silly.

Yeah, felt a little gimmicky at first but it does underpin his main point really well, that gaming itself has started to influence everyday life.

I'd love a regular gaming show from Brooker and O'Briain.

[MikeHunt]

There was an article online about how the bbc refuse to let him do a full series of gameswipe which is pretty fucking stupid. Maybe 4 will have the bottle to commission it.

[Dreyski]

Given in chronological order. For those who didn't watch, games were chosen as being significant or genre defining. Brooker admitted that Night Trap was shite, but it heralded the move towards CD based games.

25: Pong
24: Space Invaders
23: Pac-Man
22: Manic Miner
21: Elite
20: Super Mario Bros.
19: Tetris
18: The Secret of Monkey Island
17: Street Fighter 2
16: Doom
15: Night Trap
14: Tomb Raider
13: Parappa the Rapper
12: StarCraft
11: The Sims
10: Grand Theft Auto III
9: Shadow of the Colossus
8: World of WarCraft
7: Wii Sports
6: Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare
5: Braid
4: Angry Birds
3: Minecraft
2: The Last of Us
1: Twitter

Any omissions? I was a little surprised at no Civilisation, Sim City, or Final Fantasy (VII-IX). Command and Conquer as well, but maybe Starcraft was more popular worldwide (certainly in South Korea).

[JP]

Any omissions? I was a little surprised at no Civilisation, Sim City, or Final Fantasy (VII-IX). Command and Conquer as well, but maybe Starcraft was more popular worldwide (certainly in South Korea).

I understand why they had to keep it to a certain number, but it does mean that a lot of important games got missed out.

Sonic, Resident Evil, MGS, FF 7, Wipeout, Goldeneye, Super Mario 64, Halo, LOTRO (as the free-to-play leader), Pokemon etc.

[MikeHunt]

Pokemon was a huge omission imo

[JP]

Pokemon was a huge omission imo

It's not one which immediately sprung to my mind in fairness.

I have friends who are ridiculously into every Pokemon game released, but for every one of them there seem to be more similarly inclined to myself who simply just don't get it.

[MikeHunt]

Growing up I didn't know one person who didn't play it. That could be an age thing even if it is just a couple of years.

[The Rogerer]

Starcraft basically spawned an entire industry of e-sports. I preferred command and conquer myself but it didn't make much of a mark.

I took the twitter thing in the spirit it was intended. New businesses are basically succeeding by using gamification to make things addictive. The point about how Sims is redundant now was quite well observed...

[Cewsh]

Pokemon has like 4 games in the top 10 all time best sellers.

[MikeHunt]

Madonna has sold over 250 million records that doesn't make her good

[Cewsh]

But it does make her iconic, which is the point.

[The Rogerer]

Pokemon was pretty landmark as well but it would have completely passed a lot of people by

[MikeHunt]

But it does make her iconic, which is the point.

that cannot be evidenced by sales alone. have you watched the program?

[Donald]

Twitter is a game? I thought it was a social media thing.

[wardy]

Where the fuck is Zelda?

[The_Mike]

Watching it now. It's pretty amazing that the Pac-Man ghosts all had different personalities. I have to say I never noticed while playing it, but I never did play it much. Still, it seems an impressive feat given that so many modern games end up with the enemies just being drones and clones.

[The Rick]

different upload


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1dG-_n1flE

[Kneeneighbor]

One game that I think needs a nod is Techmo Super Bowl.

I beleive it we the first game with an actual full season. It also was the first to have both the players association blessing and the NFL blessing which meant real teams with real players.

(someone correct me if I am wrong)

[JP]

One game that I think needs a nod is Techmo Super Bowl.

I beleive it we the first game with an actual full season. It also was the first to have both the players association blessing and the NFL blessing which meant real teams with real players.

(someone correct me if I am wrong)

Here's where localisation comes into it.

For an Americanised list I think it'd be a given, but not so much here. That said, having thought about it I am pretty surprised Sensible Soccer wasn't included.

[The_Mike]

I get the feeling the thrust of the show was how the games industry constructed itself and became its own thing, so there was no desire to bring up gaming versions of stuff that's already really popular. That's likely why despite juggernaut franchises like FIFA and Madden, the only sport brought up was StarCraft. Except table tennis, obviously, but you can't really not start with Pong. Oh, and Wii Sports. Perhaps my point is falling apart a bit but I assume you get what I mean: this was a list about games that made leaps across the board and those leaps were seen as advancements of gaming's capabilities and its integration into our lives. A football game that sells a lot or adds seasons is just another slightly more complex derivative of earlier sports games by that measure.

It was an enjoyable program and I was happy to see a generally positive portrayal of games coupled with a genuine, non-hysterical reflection on some of the issues with sexism and violence and aggression that crop up in gaming culture. I still find the treatment of Anita Sarkeesian (which Brooker touched on) horrific, and it is just embarrassing to go anywhere near a gaming forum like the Escapist or GameFAQs any time an issue regarding women has bubbled to the surface. Some gamers do themselves absolutely no favours.

[Jez]

Who's Anita Sarkeesian? I personally enjoyed the show a lotand thought it was a balanced view of the evolution of the video game industry. I personally didn't see it as a top 25 most influential games list, the list is not as meaningful as the topics which were discussed around it. For example sexism was why Tomb Raider was brought up, media hysteria was why Night Trap was brought up (where they also talked about Mortal Kombat, GTA, Mass Effect and others) and Parappa the Rapper was nowhere near as successful or influential as Guitar Hero but because it was one of the first in the genre it was included.

[The Rogerer]

Anita Sarkeesian made videos that defined tropes and trends in games of how women are portrayed. She was already getting a fair amount of hatemail but then she started a kickstarter to make some more videos on the subject and it went into overdrive. Some of her videos are decent, others not great but just like 'memes' are big on the internet, actual behaviour memes spread too so the thing to do is send her death and rape threats of which she's received thousands, so now sending her a threat is pretty much like something you have to do on the net to earn an Achievement. The small silver lining of the internet/gaming treatment of women is that a lot of it isn't even sincere.

[JP]

The videos she's produced on the matter so far have been interesting but heavily flawed. Good intentions though and shining a light on an area that was beforehand being ignored.

[The_Mike]

Who's Anita Sarkeesian? I personally enjoyed the show a lotand thought it was a balanced view of the evolution of the video game industry. I personally didn't see it as a top 25 most influential games list, the list is not as meaningful as the topics which were discussed around it. For example sexism was why Tomb Raider was brought up, media hysteria was why Night Trap was brought up (where they also talked about Mortal Kombat, GTA, Mass Effect and others) and Parappa the Rapper was nowhere near as successful or influential as Guitar Hero but because it was one of the first in the genre it was included.

Those games were influential in how gaming interacted with the rest of culture, though, which I think was the main point Brooker was discussing. Tomb Raider has consistently been the poster-child for the gaming industry's relationship with women, Night Trap kick-started the fear of violent video games, and Parappa the Rapper was the genesis of music-based gaming that has become a huge social thing now, so I think that's why they were on the list. I thought the list was pretty apt for the issues that were raised.

As for Sarkeesian, I wouldn't say her videos are heavily flawed but she can at times take things a bit too literally or look a little too hard. Of course, the whole point is to challenge assumptions and at least create an awareness of the issue in how the gaming industry deals with women, and for that they are quite effective, even if she isn't batting 1000.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The lack of Championship Manager/Football Manager is a serious oversight. Those games are a phenomenon. I was 9 when the first one came out and I really sank probably years of my life into those games. There's more than a few guys my age who can say the same.

[turdpower]

I think some people are missing the point, they didn't include loads of games that are iconic, but talked about the ones that basically paved the way. Sonic, Zelda and Command and Conquer were clearly nodded at with other games from their genre's being included.

I quite agree about Football Manager though. Never really played Pokemon, but I know it's fucking huge in the internet world.

I thought the twitter ending was a bit fucking lame.

[Kneeneighbor]

Here's where localisation comes into it.

For an Americanised list I think it'd be a given, but not so much here. That said, having thought about it I am pretty surprised Sensible Soccer wasn't included.

I just believe that Techmo Super Bowl was the first of any sports game to have real players, real teams and a full real schedule. Before that you never had all of those things If I am correct.

[Alf]

This is interesting...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-11-29-it-looks-as-if-hes-having-electronic-urination-against-that-pillar

Charlie Brooker talks to Jon Snow (C4) about gaming. Jon Snow, as you'd guess, is out of touch.

[The Rogerer]

The lack of Championship Manager/Football Manager is a serious oversight. Those games are a phenomenon. I was 9 when the first one came out and I really sank probably years of my life into those games. There's more than a few guys my age who can say the same.I'd agree with that, the show was sticking to a narrative and didn't want you normals getting in the way of our dweeby stories. I saw someone saying there's a stand up show about FM games and I can believe it. I have met a few people who fell down a serious hole with those games long before MMOs/Farmville stuff. It would be good to do a study on games as addiction/compulsion and have those.

Some of the people on this show needed a word with themselves. I love games, etc, but that guy who was the games editor for the Guardian needed a shake and to do up his tie.

[The_Mike]

I remember when they called novels 'mindless'. All these words, jammed onto paper for you to read to yourself, and for what purpose? A story that isn't even true! Bloody nonsense. Then there were the theatre-philes who insisted that cinema was just flickering images and could never have any substance or value. Snow would be the kind of person who'd love a bureaucrat-em-up though.

I was going to say that I think there wasn't much point including Championship Manager on a list of videogames that changed the world. But ECG and Rogerer make a good case that it did ensnare a lot of people for a very long time. I remember both of my brothers dedicating basically working weeks to the thing for long periods. In an era where you had graphical wonders like Super Mario World and Star Fox on the SNES and engaging scripts from the likes of Monkey Island, this was basically keeping people in their room for days and days tweaking a spreadsheet and it made them so passionate. Now so many sports and hobbies have similar games, even wrestling. Brooker talked about The Last of Us bringing in the era of gaming's equivalent of HBO boxsets but I think that started all the way back with Championship Manager and the binge sessions it would inspire.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

The genesis of Championship Manager and how it has enlisted global input at the grassroots of football is interesting too. It's a real collaborative effort driven by the two guys who came up with the idea. Charlie Brooker isn't a football guy so it's clear he probably has no interest, but a good deal of the male adult population will have. I know guys who play nothing else but were obsessed with Champo.

[wardy]

I think some people are missing the point, they didn't include loads of games that are iconic, but talked about the ones that basically paved the way. Sonic, Zelda and Command and Conquer were clearly nodded at with other games from their genre's being included.

I quite agree about Football Manager though. Never really played Pokemon, but I know it's fucking huge in the internet world.

I thought the twitter ending was a bit fucking lame.
What game 'nodded' at Zelda? The only game that could be remotely like it is Shadow of the Colossus which I've never played and came out years later. I could probably say the same about the whole RPG genre.

[Alf]

But it wasn't exactly a jumping off point for a new wave of gaming, or a leap in the way gaming was perceived by wider society. Which is how I think the show was framed.

[wardy]

Neither is World of Warcraft.

[El Capitano Gatisto]

I think it was a leap in how gaming was viewed by wider society, it was basically two nerds in their bedrooms creating this global phenomenon. It featured no graphics for ages and was basically a number-crunching simulator yet offered this immersive experience that roped in people who normally wouldn't go for that type of game. It's a cultural touchstone for people all over the world and has spawned countless communities. It's also basically solitary, it can be multi-player but the vast majority play as themselves vs the world of the game, this parallel football universe. There's still this sniffy response to it in the mainstream media, also, despite the fact that culturally Championship Manager is as mainstream as it gets for males nowadays. If anything shows the now normality of gaming it is Champo/Football Manager, despite it still being seen as this odd pursuit by people who don't get it. It's almost the niche within the niche.

[Alf]

You're wrong. But that's fine.

WoW opened the flood gates for games of all ages and sexes worldwide. FM/CM may be mega popular but it is still incredibly niche, and incredibly European.

[JP]

Neither is World of Warcraft.

WoW popularised mmo gaming to a level never seen before and went hand in hand with the social media boom, it is undoubtedly one of the most important games of all time.

[The Rogerer]

FM has at most maybe killed only one or two babies, and produced zero, unlike WoW.

I knew a girl who played WoW, left her boyfriend who ran an internet cafe and played some other MMO for this bloke that she met in WoW. She moved in with him and his parents, got pregnant, then ended up leaving him... because he spent all day playing WoW.